Chit Chat Stocks - Vimeo (VMEO) | Deep Dive

Episode Date: June 6, 2021

Vimeo operates an online video platform where its customers can upload, share, and watch videos. The company also has Vimeo on Demand that allows its users the ability to sell their works directly to their audiences. Listen in as the team dives into what Vimeo does and where it can grow from here. As always enjoy the show! Subscribe to Potential Multibaggers: https://seekingalpha.com/checkout?service_id=mp_1308 Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/chitchatmoney Subscribe to our Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCG5Ni-SI-jyrEsoNUhqftNQ Email us: [e-mail] Timestamps Company Background | (1:47) Industry | (6:01) Management & Ownership | (8:20) Valuation | (10:34) Earnings | (11:52) Balance Sheet | (13:51) Our Analysis | (16:01) Disclosure: Chit Chat Money hosts and guests are not financial advisors, and nothing they say on this show is formal advice or a recommendation. Brett Schafer and Ryan Henderson are general partners and portfolio managers at Arch Capital. Arch Capital and its partners may hold securities discussed on this show. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to Chit Chat Money. On this show, host Ryan Henderson and Brett Schaefer interview industry experts and riff on the world of investing. As a quick reminder, Chit Chat Money is a CCM Media Group podcast. Ryan and Brett are also general partners at Arch Capital, and Arch Capital may have positions in the securities discussed in this podcast. Anything discussed on Chit Chat Money by Ryan or Brett or any other podcast guests is not formal advice or a recommendation. Now please enjoy this episode. Welcome in. This is the Sunday Deep Dive episode. It is just me and Ryan today. We do not have Brad on the show. He is on vacation, so we're not doing a Zoom recording, but he will hopefully be back.

Don't you all worry. We're talking Vimeo today. It's going to be a fun one, spot out of IAC, But first, let's talk Potential Multibaggers from our friend Chris at From Growth to Value. The aim of the Potential Multibaggers service is to find stocks that can go 10x over the next 10 years or compound at about 26% per year. Potential Multibaggers does deep research on the companies behind the tickers. So for every pick that Chris makes, you're going to get five articles together of 20,000 words, but spread out over several weeks. So you can keep up with the regular cadence, understanding, and helping you with your research in the companies you own as well. There's a lot of other stuff. He's always communicating with his team over there.

So if you want to become a multi, you can go on Seeking Alpha and look for From Growth to Value. Google potential multi-baggers are From Growth to Value or go to at From Value on Twitter. All right, Ryan, do you want to introduce Vimeo? Yeah, so their mission is to provide professional quality video for all. And so when you think about – people have maybe heard of the business before and it used to be something that it is not now. So it's basically a software as a service platform for a comprehensive suite of tools designed to build video. And it's mostly for businesses. Like individuals could use it but it's like more for like entrepreneurs, small businesses, enterprises.

And previously, it used to be a YouTube competitor until they kind of bowed out to that race, correct? Yeah, more of a higher quality video competitor to YouTube and not exactly the same business model. Yeah, they used to be more consumer-facing. Now, the whole of the business is really for other businesses. Yeah, and so the way it works now is if you go on, you can make a free account or there are different tiers to the subscriptions. And the subscription provides extra storage space, banner ad-free viewing, unlimited channel distribution, private link sharing, and a bunch of other useful stuff. It's a freemium model where you get a bunch of added good stuff if you have a subscription. And if you're big enough, you kind of need the subscription.

But once you've signed up, you've got all you need to create a professional-grade video. You can upload your own video and edit it, or you can make a totally new one from their templates. They have this basically canvas of video editing tools. And then there's distribution, so you can put it to wherever you need, whether it's blogs, websites, social media, or even connected TVs. Then there's also analytics, and then there's collaboration as well. So if you're working on a team and you want to do a part of a video and then you send it on over or like a private link, someone else can hop in, collaborate, work on it. I kind of think of it like Wix or Shopify, but for video creation. It's a no-code solution, not that video editing had that much code in it, but it's really intuitive and anyone can do it.

And that's sort of their spiel is you don't have to be a professional video editor to come in and do this. anyone can do it. But a little bit about the history, Vimeo actually has kind of a fascinating background. So it started, as Brett mentioned, a YouTube competitor, and it was actually founded in 2004 by Jake Lodwick and Zach Klein. I think Lodwick actually stepped down like three years after, but immediately after its founding, it was bought by IAC. And if you don't know who IAC is, they're famous for incubating companies and then spinning them out and taking them public, sort of developing them. And then they also combine a lot of companies. So you think about Expedia Group, who had a bunch of different travel apps within it. Then there's LendingTree.

Match Group is the most recent one. And now we've got Vimeo. But as I mentioned earlier, it's initially it was designed to be like a higher quality YouTube. You could pay, upload more professional grade videos. It was the first video sharing site to support consumer HD. And so they really had – but within that, they had a great tool set for video building. But they were just focused on the demand aggregation part. And over time, they eventually said – and I think it was like five years ago where they said, all right, we've got – it's sort of naturally adapted into this tool where people were building – using it for video creation. And so they're like, let's leverage that. We're not going to be able to compete with YouTube.

We're not going to be able to compete with Netflix because they have billions of dollars being poured into this. And so they hired Anjali Sud as the CEO, and her previous role was the director of marketing. And they basically pivoted this B2B SaaS model that it is today. And then Vimeo was spun off less than two weeks ago, so it's brand new to the public markets. Yeah, and if you want more insight into how Sud thinks, The Verge had a good – I think it was a podcast, but you can get a transcript. It's like 40, 50 minutes of audio transcripts, kind of how she looks at the business. Really, really fascinating there. I'll hit industry landscape competition.

It's a little difficult for them because you can really divide it into two buckets of what their target market is. One is businesses with more than a few dozen employees who want, you know, easy in-house video communication. And then there's businesses or people who want to easily produce video for marketing material or content. so uh you know like one of our partners on the show seven investing they use vimeo a ton and that's kind of how they do it for their you know service side it's not for i assume they might use it for internal communication as well and businesses that do it for marketing might also use it for internal communication but that's kind of an example of professional video that you want going out on your website or any other social platforms and competitors in that space a direct

competitor is a small company called Restream. There's also Sprout Social, which is more for the social aspect, managing all your social platforms as a business under one, you know, just account, stuff like that. If you're a large company, something like that. And then YouTube is also a competitor in a sense, if you, you know, okay, so someone that posts videos on YouTube might also be a customer of Vimeo, but some people just like to think or stick with the YouTube, you know wall of garden approach i mean that works well for a lot of people as well so they're competing with them on that end you could also argue zoom teams webex all those type of products are kind of competitors as well at the enterprise level at the enterprise yeah that's a good point

but slightly different than vimeo you could see a lot of companies subscribing to both um and then from an online source there are 17.6 million businesses just in the u.s vimeo is targeting some of these but not all and as ryan will go into later you know they're not really close to hitting any market saturation from all these businesses yeah and you could also make the case that they compete with adobe but the ceo herself said that it's not really as much of a competitor adobe really uses like that you kind of have to know the software really well whereas this is for anyone it's designed to be super intuitive so anyone within a business can go out and make a video yeah there's a lot of adjacent competitors that might not directly

compete with them it's a little bit complicated but yeah i'll get into the management and ownership and so this was kind of this is where brad usually fits in so this is kind of a tall task for me because there's a complicated ownership structure right now due to the spinoff and there always is with these iac deals um so they have a dual class share structure it looks like t-row price and vanguard are both going to have a large chunk of shares uh like basically like any other business but 88 percent of the shares outstanding were owned by iac before the spinoff but following completion of the listing those iac shares receive are going to those iac shareholders are going to receive 1.62 shares of vimeo and they already did okay so that's already been done yeah

okay and then uh it didn't look like any executives owned a substantial amount of shares but they have options that they were granted in the spinoff and so compensation kind of looks a little light when you look at 2020 so uh unjolly said she's the ceo she's actually 37 i think she has a pretty good vision for the company and she has kind of a unique route to getting to the ceo role uh it seems a little weird to go from a marketing background to the ceo of what is now b2b software uh but she's she's done it well and people seem to like her and then her total compensation in 2020 was around 1.2 million but she got like i said a whole bunch of different options from the spinoff the cfo is narayan menon sorry if i'm pronouncing that wrong and he was

brought on as cfo in 2020 and he was granted a big signing bonus i think he got more than four million dollars in compensation in 2020 but before that he served in various different financial leadership positions at prezi which is like that powerpoint competitor and into it uh and then joseph levin who is kind of barry diller's protege he's sort of i think he's the ceo at ice yeah he's running ice yeah he's on a 10-year deal kind of long-term manager there so he'll be the chairman of the board following the spinoff what we saw with i don't know how long that's going to last what we saw with match group was after i think a year of them being listed on the public markets away from IAC, he stepped down as chairman and just stayed on the board.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see what happens after the spin because we're only about two weeks into that or maybe even less. I'll hit valuation quick. Market cap $6.77 billion based on the 165.9 million shares outstanding. Now, this may change a little rapidly or I guess rapidly might be the right word or over the next few quarters because there are 26.7 million various IAC, what they call dilutive securities, and this is just various things like stock options, grants, all that stuff that can turn into Vimeo shares post-murder. So watch out for that. That could increase the market cap quite a bit. Ticker right now is V-M-E-O. Some of the, a lot of the stuff like Koi Fin and all that stuff haven't had it updated yet. So you might see a blank screen

right now, but that's going to be the ticker. Price to sales is 18.9. Price to gross profit is 26 as ryan will get into margins are pretty high here but you know sales ratio is cool you know it's not it's not cheap and just for this i was a strap extrapolating last quarter's financials just did a simple multiplying it by four to get an arr since this is a subscription business that might even out uh it might be a little lumpier going into some different years depending on the seasonality of signing enterprise clients. But I think that's a good proxy for how the business is doing. Ryan, do you want to hit earnings? Yeah. So I'll go through the 2020 numbers and then the first quarter just so you kind of get like a full picture. But 2020 revenue was $283

million. That was up 45% year over year. They had an operating loss of $41 million. So their operating margin was negative 14.5% versus I think negative 31% in the year prior. It seems like a company that could certainly be profitable if it chose to or if it chose to cut back on some spending. But they had that parent company and the ability to sort of access a lot of capital. So they used money to invest and grow and weren't afraid to operate at a loss doing so. They're basically break even cash flow wise. And then the first quarter, they had a great quarter. It was 89.4 million in revenue, up 57% year-over-year, 72% gross margins. They had 5 million in operating losses, and that's shrinking dramatically from the year before.

They now have 1.6 million subscribers, up 25% year-over-year. And average revenue per user is growing 27% year-over-year. So not only are they signing on more and more businesses, but those businesses are paying a lot more, especially enterprise as well. enterprise net revenue retention rate was over 110 percent and they grew enterprise clients or enterprise revenue by more than 100 percent for the third consecutive quarter all in all it looks like they're doing really really well i think covid was a year where they saw they said that they saw a boost uh there was a lot more streaming just adoption generally and businesses really used it so like if you think about right aid speaking to right aid corporate

But building a video or right at its HR at the headquarters, building a video for their employees on how to like, you know, deal with different surfaces or deal with customers. Training. Yeah, training. They would use Vimeo for that kind of thing. And that's probably what spurred a lot of the enterprise adoption. Yeah. I'll hit balance sheet quick to finish off the show. I'd say caveat here for any changes postman, you know, there's going to be some stuff that might add on some debt.

I see, you know, whatever, however they do it, they're kind of in control of this so they can give Vimeo whatever assets or not they want. I think, don't quote me on that, but, you know, that kind of just reminds me of what happened with Match Group. I see through, I guess I'd call it just randomly $3 billion in debt onto Match Group's balance sheet. A lot of investors were upset about that, including ourselves. But, you know, just watch out for that. Right now they have $316 million in cash on Vimeo's balance sheet from the latest quarter, $190 million in total liabilities, and $148 million of which is deferred revenue. So extremely light balance sheet from the liability side. All debt and notes that were due to related parties, which would be IAC,

are gone from 2020. So they're really coming in with a clean slate. Honestly, though, it makes me think you know looking back at iac last spring early summer that was in hindsight one of the fattest pitches um on the market if you run the numbers yeah gigantic returns hitting in the hitting in that entity it's funny because i'm kicking myself thinking like we talked about iac what three months ago while vimeo was planning to go public or planning to spin off and i looked at I was like, I don't really like any specific company under IAC's umbrella. But now that it's spun off, I'm like, oh, this is a great company. And the stock popped like 16% when the spinoff was announced.

IACs. Yeah, it's interesting. It always, I don't know what their tactics are for hiding how good their assets are. But whenever you look at it from the IAC standpoint, you kind of always think, eh, these businesses look fine, you know. But when they spin off, you're like, whoa. or they give out those financials, you're like, wow, these businesses are actually really good, really well managed, usually have great unit economics.

But, all right, that's going to do the first half of the show. We'll take a break and then talk competitive advantages, highlights and lowlights, all that stuff. Cox Panoramic Wi-Fi includes advanced security to help protect all your connected devices. You'll get real-time alerts. Oh, like this one, so you don't have to worry about malware. Or when your kid downloads a song from a shady link. And now all your computer can play is... Red color, red color, where are you?

All blocked. Thanks to advanced security. Included with Cox Panoramic Wi-Fi. Advanced security must be enabled in the Panoramic Wi-Fi app. Restrictions apply. All right, welcome back. Next up, we're going to have anecdotal evidence, customer stories. Ryan, what are your thoughts on this?

Ever used it? You've probably seen the videos on other sites. I built an account, so I am a registered user. shareholders you are welcome yeah pump up those numbers for your users uh but it was very intuitive very easy i felt like we could have used it for the arch capital website which we have like some sort of promotional video think of it similarly like seven investing they use it all the time yeah it's it seemed super easy uh and it really did feel like anyone could do it and it was free uh but you can upgrade to the premium stuff and if we are using multiple videos then we probably

Yeah. And then I don't have any personal experience. I didn't sign up for the site. I mean, you're seeing it on more and more company websites, which just makes sense with their usage growth. It never seems to be buggy. It's kind of like that is their huge value proposition where a lot of people's internal videos doing stuff like Zoom recordings and just trying to upload that. A lot of the times it doesn't look that great. Vimeo stuff usually looks pretty crisp. I guess it'd be a good definition. yeah it's also kind of funny because on every investor relations press release or anything like that they do a vimeo video that's like they got it with it they got it so they're just you know they're hyping up their own numbers that's good that's good that's good yeah they count as a customer um i would say though a lot of online reviews are bad some of it was just from people getting banned for doing like racist or you know kind of stuff like that so they were i think those reviews if you see any star ratings online those are a little skewed from people that are angry after getting like shut down but i don't know that's something to watch out for because some

of the reviews weren't that great okay um all right competitive advantages ryan what are your thoughts here uh i said scale to some extent so anjali said the ceo she mentioned this in that verge interview and it's growing to be a more competitive market and so she said that the depth of their solution is it's more comprehensive than what a lot of competitors have and i think she's right from distribution to creation to collaboration to the analytics tools yeah maybe check out restream see if that's like way worse something like that kind of check that out they only have like 60 employees what they listed online so yeah and then beyond that they've been doing this for what 16 years obviously it hasn't been the same business models but they have

a lot of they're the established player they have a lot of customers and so they're allowed to be the low cost provider which is a huge advantage to them and then anjali said said that she said if we had lower customers we want to be able to charge the cheap prices that we do right and still reap the benefits or at least see profits from it also they are an agnostic platform so when you look at it compared to like a youtube they're not one dimensional you can easily just embed it to just about anywhere on the internet yeah youtube yeah any devices yeah yeah we work youtube a little bit uh and well brady's uh brady's the one that does it uh a lot but i kind of realized that when you're working with youtube it's mainly focused to get you to you know help with your youtube

videos not for any other distribution video can help you distribute to even your own website other stuff and all other social social platforms like youtube you can like embed links obviously uh yeah that's yeah but the monetization aspect is really being funneled through youtube there's not like subscriptions or anything like that or like pay per video because there is some on-demand stuff that vimeo is used for like movies like little skits and stuff like that i don't know if you ever remember the it might still be out there there's like a vod video or vimeo on demand oh right right right it's kind of like a i wouldn't call it a netflix competitor but it's got some interesting stuff had some yeah all right i'll hit mine i had the freemium model so

we're big fans of this kind of trying to get as many users as possible i was kind of thinking about it a lot of companies we own either if they're consumer or business have pivoted to a freemium model i mean you just think of like video game companies they've done that a lot as well so vimeo has 200 million registered users i guess 200 million one now that ryan's on versus only a small amount of paid subs and 60% of paid users start out as free. At first look, I'm thinking of it very similarly to someone like Wix or MongoDB. They try to get their products into as many consumers as possible, even if they're not going to pay for something right now. But if they start a business in the future, they're going to know I'm going to use Vimeo if I'm going to do

promotional or internal video tools it just yeah it's don't stick to that 200 million number because a lot of them are probably basically dead not yeah they're not gonna get 200 million paid anytime soon but it makes conversion that much easier versus competitors yeah exactly those are my thoughts as well all right future growth opportunities ryan uh what do you have uh so they have a product called showcase and so this product or feature i guess allows content creators to build customized channels or sites and if you subscribe to pro which is 20 a month or any of the higher tiers you can build connected tv apps so in 2019 they said they were working on live streaming classes also i don't know if that got done but if you think about it if you're like a yoga instructor

or something like that and you want to you can record upload to vimeo upload to that connected tv app your students can follow along they can pay for that and it can all be done through vimeo Yeah, and it can be on your TV instead of having to subscribe on like your phone or your computer or some website, which makes it a lot more difficult. If you can do that sort of home fitness thing on your TV, it almost makes it – it's kind of for like those – I mean there's more than just yoga instructors or whatever. It kind of puts you in a competitive advantage versus the gyms that you may be trying to steal customers from. Definitely, and just the growth of CTV overall because I think them having that easy embed and having the good relationships with Roku and Fire TV give them good inroads to ride the tailwind to that. Yeah, it definitely has a strong tailwind there.

That's still early days. I don't think it's a big part of their business now, but there's some potential there. It will be something to watch out for if you are an investor in Vimeo. I'll hit mine. It's something that, Ryan, you mentioned earlier, enterprise revenue. It's the segment that management talks up the most, and it's running the quickest right now. They drop a lot of big companies, Amazon, Spotify, New York Times, San Antonio Spurs, if I'm remembering correctly, a ton of different enterprises, big ones too, are using Vimeo. Revenue was up 100%, like Ryan mentioned in Q1, and retention rate was 110%, or net revenue retention rate, which includes revenue growth.

This makes sense to me as this is kind of their biggest market opportunity where they're not really competing with anyone or anyone very big. And during the pandemic, it definitely gave them a boost. You could see them hitting the middle of the S-curve right now on the growth rate and the adoption of trying to get really good, crisp quality video for internal business communications, stuff like that. Yeah, and if you're thinking like, well, those enterprises obviously have the developers to be able to build an easily embedded video within the company. Yeah, they do, but it's so cheap to just do it. Like if someone from HR wants to send a video to various different departments, they can just use Vimeo because it's the easiest possible solution. They don't have to – they don't need developers, and it's not worth the developer's time. I mean, Amazon could do it very easily.

I mean, they've got some of the best developers in the world at AWS, thousands of them. I mean, they could easily do it. But, yeah, you're just talking about ROI on time spent and the cost it takes to build it versus subscribing for a fairly low-cost enterprise plan with Vimeo. And it only takes one – like let's say it happens in one part of the organization. One person adopts it within a large enterprise. It kind of has network effects within that organization where it's like, oh, we used Vimeo for that, whatever. Why don't you just sign up, and then you've got additional seats. Yeah, you'll save time on your next presentation.

It'll look better. You should use this. We'll get everyone subscribed and that. All right, highlights and lowlights here. What are your thoughts, Ryan? I think just about every business in the world could use video in one way or another, and Vimeo has those 200 million registered users, which creates, in my opinion, easier conversion. I think the economics are obviously good, especially as they reach scale.

them being allowed them being able to be the low cost provider is great um also i think the enterprise adoption is a bit of validation for the platform my low lights though is and the ceo talked about this not only do they have to market vimeo or market the product they have to basically eliminate what people used to think of vimeo because right right they there's this concept that it's this YouTube competitor. And so if that's your idea, people might be deterred by that if you're just someone in a business

or someone starting out small. So you kind of have to get rid of that concept and turn it into this B2B SaaS platform. Also, I think a lot of people like to pattern match with all of IAC's previous spinoffs where it's, oh, they've been huge successes. And I think Expedia's, I believe they've been a success. But they've kind of had some disruptive worries

the last few years but that was a long time ago that the spinoff happened yeah and i think they've had 11 total spinoffs into the public markets and it's easy to say this is the next great one but it's obviously not the same i think a lot of investors are kind of just making it i think this market could be a little more fragmented than people might think it'll be there's a potential for that you know we talk about the network effect of or not really the network effect i think that's the wrong term the virality of getting within organizations that's definitely a benefit but it's not extremely hard to build this if you spend time doing it you know we mentioned that amazon is you know probably has their own internal tool for video but you know so it just shows us other

competitors can pop up there might be margin pressure competitive pricing pressure stuff like that i also question they talk about being a low-cost provider but being a low-cost provider has gone out the window with venture capital dollars allowing you to create losses and we've seen that with sustained losses yeah i mean if you can constantly get money from venture capital you don't have to be profitable which requires you not to have to raise your prices so it's kind of just maybe maybe it's only recently it hasn't been this huge advantage for a lot of public companies it seems like yeah it's kind of that you could have stats for that but yeah you could be right there i think those low lights are something to consider i'm not exactly sure if

they're going to be true but we'll see um my highlights great unit economics like you mentioned they're coming from iac with a strong track record management looks great uh long runway for growth minimal competition currently uh and then again we'll mention amazon again the fact that even amazon uses it i think shows the strong value proposition for vimeo's products or any product like it for basically all businesses that want to do video communication lowlights i'm worried about the one-time pandemic bump so it's a subscription business so it's not like they're going to start having revenue decline unless churn totally picks up but i'm worried that they may see slightly higher churn over the next few years and slower adoption with their products

they mentioned that they think they're right in the middle of a huge adoption trend so it could be the opposite here and i'm not sure where i lean either way but that's something i would think about maybe or you know it could occur where this could have been a huge bump kind of where people argue about peloton and zoom where that growth rate might not be as high as people think over the long term but i'm not sure if i'm right there yeah it's i guess it's possible but i would argue that there are a lot of investors right now that are skeptical or they think reopening means there's going to be all these like reversions in trends that we've seen i tend to fade that take or i am now i guess yeah and i would say companies leveraging video for marketing

companies leveraging video for whatever to get your story across is going to be sustained yeah yeah i just you know i guess it's not really a part of the business but it's more of the valuation there but overall it's really hard to find low bites here i had to kind of yeah dress myself to find a few here um all right let's wrap things up more or less interested more interested obviously the valuation is not great um yeah that's it's probably going to be a no for now uh but stay on the watch list and it's not just one of the watch lists where i never look at it again it's something that i'm i guess waiting for a better entry price yeah same here i think i'm in a agreement uh more interested business looks really sound not much to complain

about i know we'll have to watch out for stock comp you have to watch out for share count but i mean that valuation it's hard i mean you could get it could get down to you know they're not growing at 100 they're not even guiding for that they're growing for about 30 growth rate over the next five years which you know is great but we'll we'll kind of free cash flow margins are you gonna get all blah blah we don't need to get into that it seems like we're good you're gonna see some multiple compression which is fine but it's kind of tough to see that balance valuation is it's really tough here there's yeah i have no problem with them losing money that that's fine i mean they have that deferred revenue too it's going to make it look worse than their actual

cash generation is yeah they just might have to spend more on op x the more competitive the market gets or sales and marketing expenses the more competitive the market gets and they've said the ceo has said this before it's good it it's an attractive industry so there's a lot of people that are trying to compete um so that might hinder a little bit of operating leverage yeah well yeah yeah i guess if that sustained snm if snm spend stays high that will be true but the flip side is that if you're on a subscription business like this you can be more confident in the all right we're going to go at break even for now and then hopefully we're going to start printing cash in the future making that bet is harder and i typically don't like to

make that bet at a high valuation um it's a bit counterintuitive where a lot of people are like well they're growing so fast and they're burning right now they will be profitable in the future so i'm going to pay a high sales ratio for something i kind of come on the other side where you know you know maybe we want a more reasonable valuation if they have improved profitability but with a subscription business versus something that's more one-time purchases infrequent purchases you can be more confident i think i'd like to see a churn number yeah they they may have some in their investor day i forget it off the top of my head i think it's pretty low but yeah definitely would love to see some churn numbers all right well my stock for next week is

going to be logitech okay hitting on the uh we did corsair with ian so we're hitting right into the gaming equipment market we'll do one with brad huh yeah so it'll be uh it's it's gaming equipment it's kind of it's been a beneficiary of covid in a big way because of remote work they provide provide a lot of the hardware for it keyboards cameras that kind of stuff so not just gaming yeah yeah so kind of take a look at that all right should be fun thank you all for listening make sure to check out Potential Multibaggers. Thank you to them, to Chris, for supporting the show. Remember, we are not financial advisors. Anything we say on this show is not formal advice or recommendation. Ryan and I are general partners at Arch Capital. Arch Capital clients

may hold securities discussed in this podcast. Thank you all for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye.