Citation Needed - Controversial Modern Art

Episode Date: January 4, 2023

Shock art is contemporary art that incorporates disturbing imagery, sound or scents to create a shocking experience. It is a way to disturb "smug, complacent and hypocritical" people.[2] While the art form's proponents argue that it is "imbedded with social commentary" and critics dismiss it as "cultural pollution", it is an increasingly marketable art, described by one art critic in 2001 as "the safest kind of art that an artist can go into the business of making today".[3][4] But while shock art may attract curators and make headlines, Reason magazine's 2007 review of The Art Newspaper suggested that traditional art shows continue to have more popular appeal. Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

I mean, Modox cool and all, I just don't know how he's gonna gel particularly well with Marvel as a property. I don't. But yeah, fair, but man, we get patent in Marvel. He was in Agents' Shield. Nobody watched Agents' Shield. So he's like, okay. That is a great question, thank you.

So clip-clop Tom Ehr era originally started as a sort of meta commentary on Tom's under representation in cold opens. Um, right, right. But we should point out Tom was the first to die in the cold open. So in many ways, clip clop Tom was zone eventual creation. What are you guys doing? Hey, everybody. No illusions and Cecil, something Italian. And guys join us up here on stage. Get on up here. What is this? Why are you doing this?

Well, you know, with Eli's essay about modern art this week, we thought it might be fun to do a sort of wide open Q&A about our own narrative with listeners. This is just a bunch of people falling asleep. Yep. Like I said, our listeners, which reminds me, Cecil, question from Gregory earlier in the talk back, Cecil, something Italian, can you speak to us about sort of the commentary that that nickname raises to a post migration, Italian ethnicity? I'm pretty sure you, I just doesn't know how to pronounce my last name,

Gregory. No, no, it's probably't know how to pronounce my last name. Gregory. No. No, it's probably an art thing. Right? Same my last name. That a chini Alfredo. Wrong. The Fs are silent. Hello and welcome to Citation Needed. Podcasts where you choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend

we're experts because this is the internet, and that's how it works now. I'm Cecil and I'll be running this arc out of you tonight, but I can't do without my dogs playing poker. So here's our cast, the pug, a rot-wiler, an afghan, and a greyhound. Eli, Tom, Noah, and Heath. Finally, I ranked most attractive on the podcast I knew. At least. Yes.

This one I feel, I feel this one, me and the rot while we both jewel uncontrollably around dinner time. So. Yeah. So I'm impressed that you even had the balls to go for which dog looks most stoned and all the more

impressive that you nailed it. You can do that. I had to look, I wasn't familiar with an afghan dog. I looked at it and I'm like, oh, it's the stoner dog. Okay. Definitely. And I'm fast. That's my thing. Fast. He's very fast. Quick, like a fast grand.

Do you have any other running jokes about Heath right now? They're like fresh. And the fast. It's me that I'm fast. So before we start, let's thank the sophisticated and refined taste of our patrons of the fast. It's me that I'm fast. Before we start, let's thank the sophisticated and refined taste of our patrons of the arts. And if you'd like to learn how to join their ranks, be sure to stick around until the end of the show. And with that out of the way, tell us Eli, what person-placed thing concept phenomenon or event we'll be talking about today. Today we'll be talking about controversial modern art. Okay. So, Eli, break into the A in that BFA. Tell us.

What is modern art? That's a tricky question, Cecil. One that if you think you have an answer, there's a smart person who usually can say like, aha, but what about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're like, ooh, I didn't think of that. I'm a smart person. So don't actually remember what that person says, but that's always happens to me. So fun response to that is just universally to go, yeah, that's not art. Right? We're regardless of what they're talking about.

Irregardless. A little bit of picture. Irregardless of whether or not one can say something is or is an art, it's definitely, there definitely is bad art. And when it comes to modern art, there's no lack of examples. So tonight, we're going to sit back and walk over the dead bodies of the postmodernists who made our absurdist podcast about the medical seat of internet knowledge possible, because this is the internet and that really is how it works. I hope we get into a fight about how blank canvas is our art because I am sharpening multiple knives as we record this.

Oh no, yeah. See, the meaning is in the spaces between the descriptive and that's really what's speaking the loud, what? Cecil, what? You got that look in your eye. I was just kidding. Mm-hmm. I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble, guys. You are.

Go lay down. First up. First up, the example, even your uncle Frank is pretty sure he's heard of Marcel Duchamp's fountain, which you've probably heard him explain as, well, one time they done put a turlite in the museum so they don't know what's what the big city in that material. And he is kind of right. Duchamp purchased a standard Bedfordshire model urinal from the J L Mott iron works at 118 Fifth Avenue, turned it on its back and wrote the name R Mutt 1917 on the side and then

submitted it for an exhibition of the Society of Independent Artists, the inaugural exhibition by the Society to be staged at the Grand Central Palace in New York. Yeah, this is one of the early works known as Dada. This was a movement so stupid, it was literally named when some German guy tried to sound smart by making nonsense noise over and over, but saying it, you know, ironically with air quotes and he were afraid to admit that they didn't get it. He wrote in a magazine, our movement will bear the name data.

Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada, Dada. And people were like, totally, yeah, no, right. Yep, rejecting the bourgeois society is genius. I also. So be careful, heath. rejecting the bourgeois society as genius. I also. So be careful, Heath. Be careful of all the things we pretend to know about on this show. None is more controversial historically than our own opinions about art. Yeah. So there is a bit of Emperor's new clothes, ism to Doddism for sure. But there's a little word to the story. So first of all, the toilet was never exhibited.

That famous photo you've seen was taken in a friend's apartment and published in the Dadaist magazine The Blind Man. Side note, the blind man could honestly have been the topic of this essay all on its own. It had an issue printed on toilet paper, it had an all blank issue, and my personal favorite, it had an issue that when you ordered it, a young woman would just come up to you in a public place and scream the issue at you. Or maybe it didn't. It's actually do that.

Yeah, it's unclear how many issues of blind man ever sold or were made and how much of what I just said was made up by its editors for the press. So yeah, okay. The one part of that, which might be good art, in my opinion, is buying a magazine that's actually just a lady yelling at you. And they probably didn't even do that one. Fucking boo. Fucking boo indeed.

He's just gonna be so mad. That's like, he'd already started. He's just gonna be so mad. That's like he's already started furious. Whizzy. He's with the blank pages. That's really just the spaces between the descriptive. Actually speaking, I'll be quiet. Look at this black space I'm drawing out right here. Speaking of made up for the press, back to the toilet, the other detail that's often removed from this story is that Duchamp was on the board of the Society of Independent Artists. That's the people running the exhibit.

And he submitted the fountain under a pseudonym. Now the reason he was on that board was because they were hoping he might grace their exhibition with his recently announced Cubist painting titled, Tulip hysteria coordinating problem is Tulip hysteria coordinating doesn't exist. And it never did. And folks who listen to our episode on the tulip madness will get that reference. But extant or not, when his toilet didn't appear in the show, do shop, resign from the board and quote, with Drew, Tula Pisteria coordinating in protest. And I know you're thinking of this point. Wow, Eli, that work of art I once dismissed is taken on new dimensions for me. Surely you are the heart and soul of this podcast.

Okay, nobody. Okay, well, no, what you're actually thinking is, has anybody ever peed in the toilet? And yes, a lot of people have peed in the toilet. So while the original fountain is lost, it was after all just a toilet, do Shumps oversaw the creation of eight replicas for sale. But I'm sorry, you phrase that as though you lose toilets all the time. You know, I do. And quite a few people have peed in those replicas. Quote, South African born artist Kendall Gears rose to international neuriety in 1993 when at a show in Venice, he urinated into fountain.

Artist musician Brian Eno, who listeners will recognize from his work with David Bowie, the talking heads and you too, declared he successfully urinated in fountain while it was exhibited in the MoMA in 1993. He admitted that it was only a technical triumph, however, because he needed to urinate in a tube in advance so he could convey the fluid through a gap between the protective glass. And quote, Yeah, it's not just some guy with his dick and a slot between the glass, telling the security

guards, you can't finish if they watch him. I can't knock it a go. Okay, if your thing doesn't really become art until Brian Enoe pees in it, that's not a good thing. No. Yeah, also not for nothing, but if the protective glass doesn't protect your art from having people piss on it, I'm not sure exactly what it's doing there. Yeah. Continuing the quote, Swedish artist Bjorn Kyrgyz. You're inated in fouls. How was that name again? I didn't catch it. Bjorn Kyrgyz. There we go.

Yes. I thought so. Yeah. There we go. That guy, he urinated in fountain at Moderna, M Musette in Stockholm in 1999. And in spring of 2000, Yon Chai and Jin Yu-Z to performance artists went to the newly opened tape modern and tried to urinate on the fountain, which was on the display. They were pretty, exactly, but they were prevented from soiling the sculpture directly

by its Perspects case. Theate, which denied that duo had succeeded in urinating into the sculpture itself, banned them from the premises stating that they were quote, threatening works of art and our staff. And so, so now I'm just picture to run, run, going like, oh, we came all this way and we're not going to piss on any of the art. Come on. Okay. But if the museum got rid of the glass and put like invisible cellophane over it

to spray the people back, now I'm listening about the art by you. That's good. And last but not least, Fountain has a nemesis in the percentage of one Pierre Pino Rosselli, Pino Nonselli, a 76 year old French performance artist who peed it in 1993 and then attacked it with a hammer in 2006 saying the attack was a work of performance art that Marcel Duchamp himself would have appreciated. Was there a big like urination movement in 93? I feel like you said that year several times. I know, right. I think it was like the only time it was displayed in a place without the box. It's got all the damaging incidents, but I don't know that for sure.

The question of, is that thing you brought with you art comes up again for our next work? My bed by Tracy Eman. It's her bed. Now, according to Eman, the piece was a result of a depressive episode where she stayed in bed for four days without eating or drinking anything but alcohol. And apparently when she got up, she felt that the bed represented something. I don't know. She's my dad in the 80s.

That's what it looks like. No need to pee in it. Or you're taking care of it, right? My dad too. Four days she laid in bed. That's it. You know, this is the problem of the everyone gets a trophy culture. We're in. Okay. Four. I knew four days sleeping in my bed. Wait. So as you can tell, we like many critics are not fans because there are those who would say until we, like many critics, are not fans. Because there are those who would say, anybody could just plop their bed in a museum,

and to her credit, MN responds to that criticism, saying, quote, well, they didn't, did they? No one had ever done that before, end quote. And that I must admit, he's demonstrably true. Well, unless you count the time he's passed out into a urinal, in which case, those are beds too. Oh, yeah. count the time he's passed out into a urinal, in which case, those are beds too. Yeah, that counts. Side note, remember those performance artists who tried to be on the

toilet, but got stopped by the box. They did manage to jump into my bed where they had a pillow fight for about 15 minutes before they were escorted off the premises. That's a long fucking pillow fight. One of the pillows was filled with 11,708 votes. Okay, is performance art just doing prank warship, but in a museum? Because like all of this is nothing stacked on even less. Yes, correct. What's the greatest? You're getting there, Tom.

Yeah, getting there, Tom. Yeah. Getting there, buddy. Almost there. But our opinion of the piece certainly hasn't brought the price down. Quote, my bed was bought by Charles Sachi for 150,000 pounds and displayed as part of the first exhibition when the Sachi gallery opened its new premises at County Hall, London. It was then auctioned by Christie's

in July of 2014, where the piece sold for a little over 2.5 million pounds. Okay. Jesus. Well, I spend a few minutes looking for ordinary, household things that I can claim our art and sell for millions of dollars. Let's take a quick break for some apropos of nothing Little to the left so here yeah, yeah, that's perfect God damn it guys. What are you doing now? Oh? He's an eye we're making art about art. Oh, that sounds awful. No, no, it's not bad.

Like, for instance, what do you see? I see a giant metal cabbage patch doll. Exactly. It's a condemnation of dark money sex trafficking. The cabbage patch doll? Cabbage patch doll. Yeah. So, you know how one theory about why the price of modern art

has inflated so drastically is that it's a way for extremely rich people to pass around large amounts of money tax-free? No, I don't. Did they do that? I mean, it says that they do in the Panama papers and Jeffrey Epstein very prominently received gifts of expense or modern art from people who were later revealed to be his clients. So I guess it's not out of the question. Okay, but the giant cabbage patch doll, like, well,

a cabbage patch doll is a commodified baby. So you know, it's like, um, it's like a reference to that. Right. And by making it big and metal, we're sort of taking on coons, Ian absurdist, big for the sake of art, postmodernism, you know, structuralism. You could put this in the lobby of a bank. Exactly. And nobody would know that they didn't pay taxes on it or Even what it means, right? So okay wait wait so but by podcasting about art about art Aren't you actually no way talking art about art about art?

What the hell just happened? Oh man, yeah, we disappeared up our own assholes. Yeah, that tracks. I tried to warn you. Hey, look, it's Eli's block. Okay. All right, after some deep searching, I've settled on my new art installation. It's going to be a pair of worn out headphones, a brush with matted hair and a half full cat box.

I'm going to title it podcaster. Call me, Christie's just give me a ring. Where were we Eli? All right. Well, I think everyone in this podcast can agree. Some of us for a living that blasphemy is pretty awesome. It makes fun of a bad thing, it proves that said bad thing probably doesn't have lightning powers and it literally only upsets assholes.

So while these next two pieces were controversial in the art world, I think they're going to do just fine here on citation needed. First up, a piece called the Holy Virgin Mary, a painting by Chris Ophili in 1996, which Wikipedia describes as follows, quote, On a yellow orange background, the large painting, 8 feet high and 6 feet wide, depicts a black woman wearing a blue robe. The central black Madonna is surrounded by many collaged images that resemble butterflies at first sight, but on closer inspection are photographs of female genitalia. A lump of dried, varnished elephant dung forms one beard breast.

Shit it. And the painting is displayed, leaning against the gallery wall, supported by two other lumps of elephant dung. It is the. Decorated with colored pins, the pins on the left are arranged to spell out virgin and the ones on the right. Mary end quote. Okay, but the elephant specifically feels difficult. You know, some assistant guy had to be like, elephant, we're in the UK. What are you talking? It could be, can we just get Brian, you know, or something. Well, say I would be so much more impressed with modern art. If most of it came from a like, you know what I bet I could get him to hang on a wall type of bat, right?

A bear grills comes along, squeezes himself out a nice smoothie from that elephant dung. And now it's performance art. Yes, I know you'd get it, Tom. And look, all that might make it notable enough. But the Christian freak out that followed was legendary first and foremost, foremost, former New York City mayor and currently melting new turtle and Rudy Giuliani called the painting in the press sick and disgusting. He then attempted to withdraw the annual 7 million city hall grant from the museum and threatened it with eviction if they didn't get rid of the painting. The museum, as Wikipedia so politely puts it, resisted Giuliani's demands and its director Arnold L. Lehman filed a federal lawsuit against Giuliani for a breach

of the First Amendment. The museum eventually won that court case. The painting has been attacked twice by offended Christians. The first smeared white paint over the canvas and the second through manure at the side of the museum, which seems like more of a punishment for him than the painter. Yeah. The Virgin Mary made out of a diners outrageous. Every good Christian knows for diners have no role in making people. Anyway, that guy, the one who threw the manure at the museum, he accused the guards who stopped him of Catholic bashing. And what?

I love that the Wikipedia included the guards who stopped him of Catholic bashing. And what? I love that the Wikipedia included the guards replied to his protestier quote, museum guards protecting the painting were quoted as saying, it's not the Virgin Mary. It's a pain. It is. And then they just stared at him for a while. They're like, okay, you still seem confused. All right. So I'm going to pee on you and your Facebook profile pic. It's gonna be fine. Does that mean? I love anyway with Catholic bashing though, right as if Protestant Jesus did have a mom who had poop boobs or whatever like It's not that's the whole religion Once again controversy has not lowered the painting's value. And in 2015, the painting

get ready, Cecil. Get ready. Sold for four point six million dollars. And is currently sold at four point six. And it is currently on display at the Museum of Modern Art in New York City. So hey, Thomas, Cecil, make sure you check that out next time you come to visit a good boys. Sure. I'll try to scale the garbage mountain to get access to the museum. No problem. Oh, we're going to get to garbage mountain Cecil. Just you wait. Next up in our blasphemy reformation is Piss Christ, a 1987 photograph by the American artist and photographer André Serrano. It depicts a small plastic crucifix, some urgeny, smaller glass of the artist's urine, and is actually, honestly, it's kind of lovely, the way the yellow light streams through the photograph.

It feels kind of magical, but it also pissed off a bunch of people, which is especially funny because Serrano is a devout cat like, and according to him, quote, what it symbolizes is the way Christ died. The blood came out of him, but so did the piss and shit. Maybe if his Christ subsets you, it's because it gives some sense of what the crucifixion was really like, end quote. It was like a jar of pee with a trinket in it. Look at that.

That's a fancy justification and all. But Pisschrist was there to make the pictures you took of your mid flight ejaculate seem tasteful compared to something. Okay. That's fair. That is fair. Two senators were so offended by the display of Pisschrist that they attacked the NEA's budget as a result.

And a print of the photo was destroyed by Christian protesters in France. But that's, that's nothing because it's a photo. It's a photo. And my personal favorite quote, during a retrospective of Serrano's work at the National Gallery of Victoria in 1997, the then Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne, George Pell, and a sought-and-enjunction from the Supreme Court of Victoria to restrain the National Gallery of Victoria from publicly displaying Piss Christ. It was not granted.

Oh, come on. That could have been embarrassing for George Pell and the Catholic Church fucking close ones. Now, once again, controversy has not heard the price tag just a couple of months before this recording, Piss Christ sold in a Sotheby's auction for $145,162. Now at this point, you may be thinking to yourself, Eli, you've done such a wonderful job with this essay. You're the heart and soul of the podcast. Where are you in Cecil taking a road trip together?

I will kill you without fucking, bludgeon you with a microphone. I, I promise you. Fair, but you may also be thinking, all right, Eli, is there any art on this list that you don't like? And yes, there is. While I wildly reject the my kid could do that

opposition to most modern art, the next two pieces, I really fucking hate. I know that you don't mean that as an insult to your kid, but I feel like I should clarify that to the listeners who might be confused. His kid could, could do that. He might be able to do Piss Grace. So first up, he's garbage mountain CZ's all, huh? Told you he was coming back. Actually, it's called embankment He might be able to do piss grace. So first up is garbage mountain sea diesel. Told you to come back. Actually, it's called embankment and it's by Rachel Whiteread. And it's a bunch of white boxes.

Whiteread famously duplicates and models for gotten places and things. Sometimes in interesting ways and spaces, but embankment is just 14,000 or so plaster molds of cardboard boxes stacked like around. Neither white read or anyone else I could find has said what this is supposed to be or reflect. It's just just a bunch of boxes. I actually like this piece. I can't like it. How did you do?

No, I do too. He did like I looked it up online and asked us to sell three asymmetrical minimalism. So rigid that it feels like it rose from a geological process. Right. I don't know this fucking Ruby Eli is on about, but I thought, jail.

jail. You both go to art jail. I hate freedom. Art jail. Art jail. And then of course the shit tits one too. If I'm being honest, yeah, sure. And then of course, there's one your kid actually could do and probably already has in Lego equivalent eight by Carl Andre. The sculpture consists of 120 fire bricks arranged in two

layers in a six by 10 rectangle. And it's dumb. Now, Carl Andre wants me to tell you that there are actually eight arrangements of the bricks and the rectangle is only one of them, but I don't care because I hate it. So. Yeah, this with that one is just fucking stupid. Yeah. Thank you.

Now, on the bright side, Cecil, this piece did not fetch eight Bikajillion dollars in auction. The tape paid six grand for it in 1966 and then three grand in 1996 because the 1966 exhibition was such a universally mocked failure that the artist returned the piece to the brick store for a refund. Okay, laugh it up, but they bought it, then somebody bought it again, and then he gets it back and then returned to the used Legos and we're making fun of that guy.

That seems fucking genius. He sold the same shit twice and got his money back. Everybody's finding their way into the art somehow. See this is the great thing about modern art. So I'm going to leave you with the story of one last controversial piece of modern art that some of you may have already heard of, but almost everyone has heard of incorrectly. I'm talking, of course, about the starving dog. So this piece by Guillermo Vargas was titled Exposition number one and was set in the Cotes gallery in Manuga Nicaragua. The exhibition included the burning of 175 pieces of crack cocaine and an ounce of marijuana

while the Sandinies to Anthem played backwards. But the work also included an emaciated street dog tied to a wall by a length of rope with Eris Loughelis, you are what you read, written on the wall in dog food. But then someone, psst, it was Vargas, reported to the press that the dog had been starved to death throughout the course of the exhibition, like that they had just left it tied to the wall for the entire exhibition until eventually it died. I'll fucking kill you right now. This is an artist, I'll be easy.

Yeah. So I understand he except absolutely that is not what happened. The dog was only in the gallery for three hours where it was given food, water, and then ran away when it was taken for a potty break outside. Now, this did not stop people from losing their goddamn minds, right? Vargas received thousands of emails, including death threats and the petition to prevent Vargas from participating in the

2008 Biannial Central Americana in Honduras received over four million signatures. Now, for his part, Vargas refused to comment on the fate of the dog at first, but then eventually pointed out that like, people probably wouldn't just stand in an art gallery and watch a dog starve to death. And if they did, that would actually be pretty monstrous of them. I didn't starve a dog. I just tricked people into thinking I did. So I'd be more famous.

Isn't a great defense, but it's a defense like us. It's a weird flex. Also, you know, the idea of a dog that can starve to death in three hours is exactly as stupid as the people who believed the story was true. So Varkas followed up the piece and controversy with a new piece called Exomia, a photo a day blog that appeared to be showing a dog, Varkas had adopted growing more and were emaciated by the day. Now people were once again worried that the star of a dog to death guy was going to star of a dog to death.

The Costa Rican National Animal Health Service investigated the case finding that the dog was actually in good health. Vargas later explained that he had found the dog on the street in 2010. He'd apparently planned to adopt the dog in the original piece that ran away. And he had documented its recovery over time. The idea of axomia was to upload the photos of the dog's recuperation in reverse order to get a bunch of attention in eight. Vargas described the reaction to his work as typical of a world in which people form

opinions without being informed. Yeah. Okay. This one actually made me really like modern art. I'm fully on board now. That's great. That's great. We got everybody. That's great.

By the way, for those who were wondering the dog who Vargas named after the state paper of Nicaragua lived happily and well fed with Vargas until it passed away at the age of 11. And if you had to summarize what you learned in one sentence, what would it be? You don't hate modern art. You hate gay people because Ronald Reagan paid Andrew Dice Clay to make you hate. And I heard it for the cause. I hate.

I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate.

I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. I hate. most modern art suck. A, all the good art was already taken. B, people who call the bed that they just pissed in for three days art make at least as much money as people who cultivate an actual talent. So why bother? C, no country that spends $32 billion a year at McDonald's deserves true beauty or D. I'm an uncultured Philistine unable and unwilling to appreciate its genius, which will be explained over the next nine paragraphs of an email with no capital letters. Okay. I sent you D in confidence. No, I'm going to go with D. That was our little secret. Yeah. Yeah. It was D. All right. Eli, the cultural center here in Chicago has free art exhibits. And I once went on a day where there was a lot of performance art. And I got into an elevator and there was a half naked woman cowering in the corner with hair all over the floor after she had presumably

just shaved her head. Be that will always now live rent-free in my head. C, there was no placard explaining anything or identifying the artist. D, on reflection that may have just been a very weird elevator ride in Chicago. It is Chicago. Okay, Tom, I'm gonna tell you something from my heart. I googled that because I was like,

oh, I'm gonna make a funny little joke about what art that is. I found nothing, oh, I'm going to make a funny little joke about what art that is. I found nothing. Talk. Yeah. We're at elevator right? We're at a room. There you go. That actually makes me really happy. Eli, which one of these Italian artists is also a pasta dish? A, Bata celli, B, Belini, C, Bronzino, D, Parmigiano.

Is it, is it D Parmigiano? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. And fuck you for thinking of your erasus. Good points. Good points. All right. He like I want more for you. Am I doing art now? No. the last supper, Deckard.

Shut up. You were doing art the whole the art was inside you all alone. Incorrect. It was E. No. None of that. Nothing they talked about except for the two that I liked. Meshener, last supper, Deckard was going to 100% when he this the winner. All right, next week, let's have no to it. Okay.

All right, well for Noah, Heath, Eli, Tom and me, I'm thanking you for hanging out with us today. We back next week, and by then, let's see, it's gonna be Noah who's gonna be an expert on something else. To me now, and then listen to all of our other stuff you can find at cetitationPod.com. If you'd like to help keep the show going, you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com,

so that's CitationPod. Or, leave us five star of you, every can. Like to get in touch with us, check out the past episodes, connect with the social media, or check the show notes. Be sure to check out CitationPod.com. Botticelli Well, it is really roomy up your ass. Yeah, I know I spend a lot of time in here. Here's your BFA from NYU Yeah, bunch of poems you know by heart

Yep, yep, yep. This thing with the what's this thing with the pins and the strings and the pod cast a verse This is that's the whole podcast verse yet the whole Which is the thing with the pins and the strings and the podcast reverse? That's the whole podcast reverse, the whole leaking system of the moment. Yeah, nobody cares about that. Well that's why it's up here, me. That's why it's here.