Citation Needed - Defenestration

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

Defenestration (from Neo-Latin de fenestrā[1]) is the act of throwing someone or something out of a window.[2] The term was coined around the time of an incident in Prague Castle in the year 1618 which became the spark that started the Thirty Years' War. This was done in "good Bohemian style", referring to the defenestration which had occurred in Prague's New Town Hall almost 200 years earlier (July 1419), and on that occasion led to the Hussite war.[3] The word comes from the Neo-Latin[4] de- (down from) and fenestra (window or opening).[5] By extension, the term is also used to describe the forcible or summary removal of an adversary.[6]

Hello and welcome to citation needed, the podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the internet. And that's how it works now. I'm Eli Bosnick, and I'll be breaking in and busting up tonight. But I'll need a group of disposable stooges. First up, two men who aren't shy about being from Shytown, Tom and Cecil. Yeah, I'm actually more pee shy than Shytown. Every time everyone has staged right at the Wrigleyville Piss Trough. Everyone.

Thank you. Thank you. Stop staring. I'm going to go soon. I don't know why he decided. to hug your mistress from that petroffsy so it's such a weird weird choice.

It was all yellow. And also joining us tonight a New York Maloink who makes sure his boss gets the money on time. Heath and write. Broan you out some windows. Man, I don't know what. Oh yeah, to be fair, I had not read the essay

when I wrote the intros and I thought there was going to be more gangsters. All right. It's like medieval gangsters. All right. Yeah. Before we begin tonight, I'd like to take a moment to thank our patrons. Patrons, Noah isn't with us tonight because he isn't rich enough to fly on his own private

debt. But if there were just 10, 20, 40,000 more of you, he could. And his flight would never be delayed as long as it was ever again. So if you'd like to learn how to join their ranks, be sure to stick around until the end of the show. And with that out of the way, tell us, Tom, what person, place, thing, concept, phenomenon, or event who we'd be talking about? today. Today we will be discussing defenestrations. All right. And Cecil, you used your vision board about me as a subject this week. Are you ready to tell us who else is on your list? I want to do that scream that Gary Oldman does from

Leon where he just yells everyone really loud. That's what I want to do. That's fair. That's fair. So tell us, Cecil, what are defenestrations? A defenestration is when someone is violently chucked out a window. The words roots are Latin. D, or Down From, and Finestra, which is a window or opening. I like the idea that there's like a gentle throwing out window word. Shh, shh, just that it happens. He got to shush them while you do it. It's okay.

Radical acceptance. You seem like you're pulling me toward the window. I don't know. You seem anxious. This gets its name from the event that happened in Prague, and we'll get there, so pin in that. defenestrations are still taking place today, but they're mostly happening in one very specific country and we'll get to the modern and recent tossings at the end. We're going to start with a famous story from the Bible. That time that Jesus was a bouncer in a small time bar.

Our story begins in the 9th century BCE and Israel, and there is a marriage of royalty between a guy named Ahab and a woman named Jezebel. She was, hated by the people because the king gave her an altar to another god that wasn't the Jewish one. The people hated her and eventually after Ahab's death, another guy named Jayhu decides to consolidate power for themselves. When they came to the palace, Jezebel put on her best wig and jewelry, dressed up in her best clothes, and she taunted him with her best Boston lady voice from the window. Her eunuchs broke into the castle and threw her. her out of that same window killing her.

Jehu then trampled her with his horse. And then he decided to bury her after he ate and drank and evidently went on something of a bender. When he finally put her in the ground, the only thing the stray dogs left were her skull, her feet, and the palms of her hands. Okay. I just picture him like running over Jezebel with his horse. Did that one hit the body?

Because the horse keeps going over. No, I'm sorry. I missed the game. Fuck. All right. How many is that? How many did I get so far? Two. Okay. What's a good amount for a trample? Like, how many are you supposed to do? Maybe 10. Fuck. All right. Yeah, I'm coming back around. I'm coming back around. You've been going for a while. You got a bender right after this. I promise. Everybody gets a bender, I swear.

Can I have my penis back? No. Oh, that means no. Because I was the eunuch. We got it. Fast forward to 1383. The kingdom of Portugal is left without a direct air when their king dies. After a period of anarchy, John I descends the throne. To celebrate this, all churches in the realm were ordered to ring that shit out of their bells.

One church was notably silent. It was the Capitol's cathedral. The bishop, he was there, but he wasn't tugging away on the old rope. the populace of Lisbon revolted. They ram their way inside the building. Once they forced their way inside, the bishop was accused of treason by the populace for basically being a traitor with allegiances

to an anti-Pope at the time. He was then defenestrated from one of the bell towers. His corpse was assaulted and dragged to a nearby square where was then left to rot and be eaten by dogs. I guess the dogs didn't finish the thing off because this line from the wiki His body stayed there, quote, until the populace had enough of its smell and buried it in the square, end quote.

Okay, guys. I hated this dude as much as everybody else, but at this point, the only one being punished is us. I can't even walk by the fountain right now. Okay, ridiculous. We're stray dogs. Not the fucking clean. Hey, no, funny enough, stray dogs don't actually love eating rotten corpses. I write that down.

Somebody write that down. They really don't like the palms, apparently. specific in that last one. Too oily. Now, let's go back to that pin. There have been a number of defenestrations in Prague. In fact, they did this enough times that we think this is where the origin of the word actually comes from. Here's a confusing early paragraph by the wiki writers, quote, the first governmental defenestration occurred in 1419, the second in 1483, and the third in 1618. Although,

The term defenestrations of Prague is more commonly refers to the third. Often, however, the 1483 event is not recognized as a significant defenestration, which leads to some ambiguity when the 1618 defenestration is referred to as the second Prague defenestration. End quote. So in order to avoid confusion, I personally am just going to use their dates to refer to them. All the 1483 people just pulling out their headphones, window incident. you travel through time for this i was going to wonder aloud at a culture that considers any defenestration is like insignificant but then i remember they have like a whole church made a skull yeah yeah we'll get to that spoilers tom the defenestration of 1419 happened 6006 years ago today

and it was perpetrated by a very specific sect of christians the group was called the hussites they were a Protestant movement that followed the teaching of a man named Yon Huss, or translated English, John Goose. John Goose and his merry band of Gooseites really wanted the sermons to be in their native language, and they wanted wine with bread, not just bread. Feels like these are pretty simple ass, but instead, he was burned at the stake. That didn't stop his flock, though, who followed his teachings after his death in 1414. flock of geese.

Sorry, the goose sites demanded bread. What's next? They're sacrament of hissing at small children. I really feel like his goose was cooked

when he rendered those requests. Nicely done. Nicely done. There's two in there. There's a doubler. I like it. It's like,

I'm going to give you two Michelin stars for that pun. There you go. Silly geese. Because windows so. Oh, that's better.

than I thought. That is way better. Can I say I'm really glad that was so good. You thought I just said silly geese? Because I thought they were silly. So good. I thought you were like, words, time. Amazing.

Few years later, another Jan, this one, a fellow goose site, and local Prague priest named Jan Zelvinsky, no idea of pronouncing that correctly, was leading his followers through the streets. They were either in a single line

or in a V, I'm not sure. they were headed to town It's your turn to break the wind Break that's not what we met by break the wind They were headed to the town hall building To protest that some of their members Were prisoners of the town And they wanted to get him out of jail

One of the town council members decided To chuck a rock at the marching goose sites And he hit the leader and he pissed him off And you never ever angered geese So he stormed in They came into the town hall They grabbed the judge They grabbed the burgo master

or the chief magistrate and several other members of the town council and then they threw them out of the window one high enough to kill him. Okay, that's why you don't throw stones in glass houses. Yeah, there you go.

This, of course, started the Hussite Wars and I got to just hope that one of the commander's names was Maverick in this conflict. Yeah, the Hussite Wars were the only wars in history settled by a shirtless volleyball match. We're now going to

shift countries here and stay in chronological order and come back to Prague later. We're going to go to Scotland. There's a noble named William Douglas, the eighth Earl of Douglas naming conventions back then. We're not super original. Anyway, he was off and this is a perfect opportunity for the king, for King James II to attack his lands. So he gets back and things are a little tense between him and the King, and the King wants to smooth things over. So he asks William to, Come on over for a chat at Castle Sterling. And he sent a letter guaranteeing safe conduct. I promise you'll be perfectly safe.

Side note, would you say you're like buck 25, $1.15? My guy's got a bad bag. A follow-up question. How do you think you smell to stray dogs? Just curious. When he arrives, he and the king fight about alliances and such and then James the second. that's what I'm picturing.

James I'm a second stabs him in the chest. There are two other nobles there, and they're on the king's side. They reportedly bashed his head in with a pole axe for good measure. Ow, we were just doing a sloppy fight. What the fuck? Then they took what was left of Williams'

broken and beaten body, and they threw it out the window just to make sure. This sentence in Wikipedia is referring to proper inheritance line And this takes the cake. Quote, since Douglas died without issue, his titles passed to his brother James, end quote. What was being adjudicated there? Like, the whale says, Timmy gets the titles if the murder's like a whole thing with issues.

Otherwise, it's James. So they're locking that in. We want a nice, clean murder, boys. Otherwise, this is going to get legally tricky. We know that issue means having a kid. You don't have to email. I just said we're doing the silly goose thing. I thought it was just like,

oh, there's no kerfuffle, just died normal. Sorry, he's a fucking idiot. Jesus Christ. Silly goose! Wow. That one made sense. Fuck.

I thought it meant come. What's that too? Next, we move to Renaissance Florence, where a group of conspirators are kind of killed window adjacent. Let me explain. There's a... Cheating already.

There's a powerful family of nobles in Florence that will almost certainly get a citation-needed episode of their own. The De Medici's. They're a political banking dynasty. They own the largest bank in the history of Europe in the 15th century. A group of people came up with the idea of assassinating one of the members of the Medici family

and asked the Pope for his blessing. And the Pope was not fond of the... family or the power that they wielded. So he sent them back like a very diplomatic, I can't sanction something like this, but man, that would be awesome. So he basically said, do what you got to do. You got my full support. Yeah, Pope Mangione was the best.

Yeah. And super effective. The Medici family would only stay in power for like 300 more years. It's totally effective. To just do murders like that. Super cool. So on Sunday, April 26th of it. Pretty.

He was so pretty. Pretty. That's so beautiful. That's nice. So on Sunday, April 26th in 1478, the conspirators tried to kill Lorenzo and Giuliano Damodici at High Mass. They were attacked and Lorenzo managed to flee to a backroom in the church to lock himself away and then he fled home. His brother, however, was not as lucky and he died. After they attacked, several people went to the town hall to try to take control of it and they failed. The conspirators were thrown from the windows, but they also had ropes around their necks,

so like a defenestration bungee jump with a lot less springy rope. I want to read what they did to the main conspirator right from the wiki, because I can't write this any better. Quote, he escaped from Florence, but he was caught and brought back. He was tortured, then hanged from the town hall

next to the decomposing corpse of his other conspirator. He was buried at the church, but the body was dug up and thrown into a ditch. And then it was dragged through the streets And propped up on the door of his home Where the rotting head was mockingly used As a door knocker From there it was thrown to the river

Anybody home? Anybody home? That's you. Children fished it out And hug it from a willow tree flogged it and then threw it back in the river. All right, guys We have touched this beat four times.

Let's just... Okay, we can bury it by it. I just... Now we're just playing with it. Okay, guys, now you're just playing with it. Either we do it twice more or it doesn't make sense. The next one occurs back in Prague in 1483, a group of

religious zealots who were obsessed with wine at communion strike again, this time carrying out a violent coup. They attack the burgo master and several town counselors, throwing them from town hall windows. They decide to reconcile afterwards and have an assembly

in a church that I visited while I was Prague. The church is in a town called Koot Nahora and there's a small chapel there, ossuary. It's full of bones because they had a tiny bit of soil from Jerusalem in their graveyard there. So people from all around would

want to get buried in the graveyard. So since they had limited space, they kind of had like a first in, first out sort of burial policy. And they had a surplus of bones and you need to do something with and so they made all kinds of decorations out of like chairs and coats of arms and stuff. Okay, I feel like that's the

official line. Maybe it's true. I also think it's true that there's a solution to that problem that isn't giving like Apocalypse Now vibes and they didn't look very hard for that solution. What do you guys think? Do we maybe use some of the other land on the earth or we make big sculpture out of baby skulls? Big sculpture out of baby skulls. All the ends of 100%. Good day. In November of 1561 in Delhi, a stepbrother to the ruler murdered another. general. The ruler is super pissed that his favorite general was killed and decided to meet out justice. The ruler

personally beat his stepbrother down and then ordered him thrown off the ramparts. Well, it was 12 meters, so about 40 foot drop, and it wasn't enough to kill the guy. It only broke his legs. So in what Wikipedia calls quote, a rare act of cruelty, end quote, he had the stepbrother thrown off the ramparts again,

this time killing him. All right. Well, well, I inform history of a little punishment known as just leaving him down there we'll take a quick break for some apropos nothing. Brothers of the true religion But they would take

glorious battle against the armies of darkness and the minions of Satan. We will kill those who bring evil to our lens, and we will do it without throwing anyone out the window. We always throw God's enemies out of windows. Yep, yeah, I know, we do, but honestly, guys, like, we are the ones having to repair the window. I guess that's true.

It is. and these are like castle windows, church windows. I know we're defeating the enemies of God, but there's no way Jesus isn't going to be a little piss that we've thrown someone through a picture of him like half a dozen times. Alright, so what do we do at the enemies of God? Okay, okay, glad you asked, glad you asked. We're going to throw them off the roof.

It's not same. Yeah, it's not even going to make a noise. Of course it will make a noise Not like window noise though Okay, okay, how about this? How about this? We'll take some old pots and pans Maybe even dishware

We put it at the bottom And then we throw them off the roof On to the pots and pans Big splashy-crashy. What if we miss? Then we will try again, Jesus. Okay, but people are harder to bring upstairs After you already have thrown them off roofs

It's true, they get quite slippery. Slippery. You know what? You know what? never bite. We will throw people through the windows and then I guess I'll just fix the windows. Hoorah! Yeah!

Every time I try to make a tiny change. The bots were a good idea. No, they weren't. No, they weren't. And then and then die. Han says, not without me, brother.

Not without me. Dude, get out of here. I know, right. Hey, guys, what you're talking about? Oh, hey, Tom. I'm just catching Heath up on our K-dramas. K-dramas? Yeah, you know, Korean drama series.

They're really, really good. Like, so good. Okay, well, where are you watching them? Where am I watching them? Netflix. Wait, Netflix has K-dramas? I've never seen any. To be fair, maybe I wasn't looking.

I don't blame you, Tom. Did you know that Netflix has more than 18,000 titles globally, but only like 7,000 of those are available in the U.S.? What? That's only half. That is, unless you're using ExpressVPN. Wait, what's ExpressVPN? 7,000 isn't half of 18,000. God damn.

Okay, sorry, sorry. Got to strike you. Go ahead. ExpressVPN lets you change your online location so you can control where you want Netflix to think you're located. They have servers in over 100 countries, so you can gain access to thousands of new shows. and never run out of stuff to watch. Plus, it works with many other streaming services, too.

Disney Plus, BBC IPlayer, and much, much more. I don't know, guys. There have to be some kind of, like, computer genius to use this thing? Not at all. Just fire up the app, click one button, and you can change locations. Okay, yeah, but have you actually used it? I actually have. I was a VPN user even before ExpressVPN became a sponsor.

I love how easy they are to use and how it works on any of my devices. I can watch for the love of pets now. Now. And I can watch Sherlock. That's why I, Eli Bosnick, personally endorse ExpressVPN. So be smart. Stop paying full price for streaming services and only get access to a fraction of their content. Get your money's worth at ExpressVPN.com slash citation. Don't forget to use my link at ExpressVPN.com slash citation to get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. All right, guys, J dramas, here I come. Oh, K dramas. Well, if they're just okay. Okay. Okay. How about in here? Nope. Still no bars.

Man. Hey, guys. What you up to? Turns out Cecil didn't get any of my calls in tech this week because of his wireless plan. You didn't? Nope. Well, why don't you just try Mint Mobile? Tom, X-N-A on the Ant-Mobile, Maine. What's MintMobile?

Well, with Mint Mobile, you can get the coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less money. And for a limited time, Mint Mobile is offering three months of unlimited premium wireless service for $15 a month. So while your friends are sweating over data overages and surprise charges. You'll be chilling, literally and financially. That sounds great. I don't know, man. I feel like they'd run out of minutes pretty fast for something. Nope, nope. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Yeah, sure. But I, like, people really like their phones. I like my phone. I don't think that. Use your own phone. Okay. With any Mitt Mobile plan, bring your phone number

along with all of your existing contacts. Okay, that sounds good, but nobody actually used it. probably doesn't even like all contrary cecil i switched to mint mobile when they became a sponsor i love that i get the exact same service for a fraction of the price that's why i tom curry personally endorse mint mobile all right tom thanks buddy awesome hey uh cecil remind me of your number again it's one you told eli your phone number is one right how lucky is he that he got that one. Pretty lucky. New Alexander Graham Bell.

And we're back. When we left off, people were getting tossed about quite a bit. Who's next, Cecil? Well, let's go back to Prague, since they can't stop chucking. people out of windows. It's 1618, and the backstory to this is a little tedious. Suffice to say there's a long lead-up that basically boils down to one group of religious people wants to take rights away from another group of religious people. It's the first and last time in human history, something like this has ever happened. On the one side, the Protestants, the other side of Catholics, four Catholics were

suspected of persuading the ruler to stop building a church on royal lands. They were brought up to a room on the third floor of the chancellery, and they were questioned. Two of the Catholics were, quote, deemed to be too pious to have any responsibility, end quote. The other two were kept and questioned some more. Okay, I feel like if you're getting into the fuckery in Prague at this point, you only agree to meetings in like one story. Yeah, yeah, man, 100% like for us, I am only RSVPing to basement or sub-bachment company meetings from now on. That's it. After a bit, the Catholics eventually confessed to writing a letter.

They thought that they would just submit themselves to whatever punishment the Protestants had planned. What's the worst that could happen, right? They said to the group, quote, You are enemies of us and our religion and have horribly plagued your Protestant subjects and have tried to force them to adopt your religion against their wills or have expelled them for this reason, end quote. and then they were picked up and they were thrown out

the third floor window falling 70 feet to the ground. Just grabbing the sides of the window like a cat who won't get in the car. Let me ask you something. Let me send you something. Now the cat looks like to say that these men

survive this fall because they were saved by a saint or the Virgin Mary or some angels. The Protestants say they survived because they landed on a giant dung heap. The act of defenestration was one of the small acts that helped contribute a couple years later to starting the 30 years war.

Now we move on to the Portuguese Restoration War. A group called the 40 Conspirators stormed the Portuguese throne room and found the Secretary of State. Miguel de Vasconcelios, he was widely hated by lots of people, specifically he's 40 people who forced their way in. It was hidden in the closet,

and they found him, they shot him, Then they threw him out a window for good measure, and his body afterwards was mutilated by the angry crowds. Okay, there's a lot of secondhand corpse mutilation that I did not learn about in history class, right? But I'm not going to lie, there are a lot of people in government right now whose corpse I'd kick if it fell on my feet.

So like, right, I get it. Yeah, Markle Rubio is furiously scrubbing this from history books as we speak. Like, if you were offered, like, you get one kid. I would vote for like almost anybody. you know what I mean like they could have pretty much anything else platform if they're like there's no bad ticket here there's no Marco Rubio after we kill me oh god it feels so I feel like it would fix my back you know how around 2016 your back kind of like yeah I feel like I would it would

better I feel like I like my full I'd breathe just imagining it my posture just got better it really did. Founder of the Latter-day Saints movement, holder of the Holy Golden Plates, Joseph Smith was shot and pushed out a window in Carthage, Illinois. An armed mob with blackened faces smashed their way

into a jail he was being held on charges of treason. He was also a presidential candidate at the time. The person who he was being held with tried to hold the door shut, but they were shot in the face. Smith somehow had a gun and shot three people before he

tried to jump out the window of the jail. He was then shot before he could, and then he was thrown out that window. His last words were, quote, Oh, Lord my God, end quote. And then he died. The crowd decided to shoot him several more times after he died before they dispersed. Yeah, almost certainly because he tried to use magic powers to stop the bullets when they did shoot him, like Neo. Would you got to admit is among the dead body mutilation fits?

Like, that's a solid one when you just shoot him. Okay. He said he knows Kung, I'm going to kick him and see what happens with the kind of boo, I don't know. Your back looks amazing. Thank you. I feel better.

Like, taller. In pre-World War I, Serbia, the king, Alexander, and his queen, Draga, were part of a sort of pin the crown on the monarch thing going on in Serbia at the time. One of the members of the black hand

that would go on to kill Archduke Ferdinand and kickoff World War I was also part of the plot to kill Alexander and his wife. The group of conspirators searched the royal palace for the two and eventually found them in a wardrobe. They were shot, then mutilated, then disembaled,

then thrown from a second floor window where they made a wonderful splat into a large pile of garden manure. Again, okay, I feel like one of the developers for like, Assassin's Creed at some point, I was like, technically, EZEO should dive into more shit piles for historical accuracy.

And they didn't do it. I wish they had done it. In 1948, a Czechoslovakian minister was found dead in his pajamas in front of the foreign ministry just below the bathroom window. The death was ruled as suicide, and it was suggested that he jumped to his own death. But some 50 years later, in 2004, I guess they opened that cold case back up, and they found that he did not, in fact, die by suicide. Instead, he was most likely thrown from the window by Czech communists and Soviets for his opposition to their violent riot a few months before. Stop drawing yourself. Stop throwing yourself.

We now move out in the United States where James Forrestal, the first secretary of defense, was found dead outside his hospital room window. He was in the National Naval Medical Care Center because he was depressed and he was asked to resign his position by the president and was going through treatment.

It appeared that he was on the road to recovery and he gained some lost weight, but he was found dead in a suspected suicide. But it was ruled that he fell from his window, seems obvious, but they didn't suggest what might have caused that fall. Yeah, perhaps this one was just a fenestration. Like, maybe he was trying

to jump into the window and missed. So, now we get to the recent defenestrations, and I'm just going to point someone to this wonderful listicle. This is on Wiki. Suspicious Russian-related deaths since

2022. The world's longest listicle. My rough counting suggests there's 79 suspicious deaths on that page and more importantly, there are 14 that look like they were either defenestrated or

auto defenestrated. Wink, wink. So these include a chair of an oil company, a former head of landscaping, a head of a former meat processing company, head of finance and procurement from the Western military district, a federal judge,

a deputy Russian assembly person, an ambassador of Belarus to Germany, An economist at the Russian Academy of Sciences, a former vice president of an oil company. Jesus Christ, you're still going. Stop using windows, just mix it up or something. This is my, this is my favorite one. The head of the federal anti-monopoly surface, a musician.

I should have picked Bimble. I should have picked Bimble. They put that fucking top hat on them and they just throw them out the window. A musician, a lawmaker, and former world champion in wrestling. I don't know how they got that guy out the window Zankeef, I think his name was And earlier this month Another vice president of a Russian oil company

Nothing to see here, folks All right, Cecil And if you had to summarize what you learned in one sentence I said there's nothing to see here, folks All right, and are you ready for the quiz? I am ready, let's do it. All right, Cecil, when the defense traders did their thing they tried out several taglines

obviously what was the best tagline for the defenestrators of Prague A this pains me more than it pains you B we should crack a window in here it's kidding or C

check yourself amazing Oh my God, it's so good It's so good It's got to be C Better check yourself that is correct well done all right cecil as we said no one missed this episode but not after he had written his multiple choice question which was supposed to go here so a how about what's the question before you give a question wait in second happen no temanick you almost haven't you almost haven't be seven what is happening right now what is happening right See, I'm going to do, I'm going to improvise.

What is fucking happening? No, we're never improvised. And I just, I know that I can pull this into something really funny. It's going to be really funny. See, this is not staying in. Jim, Jim. So, C, so what's your gosh? Hey, Tom, are you a question?

All right. When killing someone, why choose defenestration? A, when a door closes, another window out. B, you had other ideas, but they all went out of the window. Yeah. C, there was a window of opportunity. Or D, budget cuts. Oh, gosh.

We live in a time of budget cuts, but I feel like I'm very optimistic time. It's A, when a door closes, a window opens. I think that is correct. however the game works. Okay. You got it right or wrong. I wrong because you run. You're wrong.

You've got a bad person. It's budget cuts. You should feel bad about that. Budget cut. All right. Tom is the winner, which means that he gets to pick next week's essayist.

I will pick Noah as the essay. Because he can't defend himself. Exactly. All right. Well, for Cecil, Tom Heath and No Illusions. I'm Eli Bosnick. Thank you for hanging out with us today.

We'll be back next week. And by then, Noah. will be an expert on something else. Hey, between now and then, you can listen to Heath, knowing myself on the scathing atheist, god-offal movies, D&D Minus, and the skepticrat.

You can listen to Tom and Cecil on cognitive dissonance. You can listen to me and Tom on dear old dads, and you can hear Cecil betray this tight-knit, sacred podcasting circle. Circle over on the no roguean experience.

Oh, who's on Dear Old Dance with you? It's just you two? Is that just the two, you guys? Is that who is in the fucking circle? What's there? Marsh is more in the circle. than you are, Eli. Wow.

This is fucking awkward. This is so awkward. Wow. Well, we're better friends with Marsh than you. That's because he's a better person. And if you'd like to help keep the show going, good luck. That's what I have to say.

You can make your part of episode donation at patreon. Patreon.com slash citation pod. Or leave us a five-star review everywhere you can. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, comfort one of the hosts who just got totally called out. Check out past episodes, connect with us on social media, or check the show notes. Be sure to check out citation pod.com.

Hey, Greg. What's your feet? Broken glass. Right, right. Sorry. What do you want? Just wanted to say thanks for the window thing. Really cheered the guys up.

Yeah, yeah. You need some glue? No, I don't know. not need glue. Okay. Got it. No glue.