Citation Needed - Forbidden Places

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

This episode is about forbidden places, like Ilha da Queimada Grande, also known as Snake Island, an island off the coast of Brazil in the Atlantic Ocean. It is administered as part of the municipality of Itanhaém in the State of São Paulo. The island is small in size, only 43 hectares (106 acres), and has a temperate climate. The island's terrain varies considerably, ranging from bare rock to rainforest. Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

No dude, it's like bounge go wow wow like porn. Okay. How is that noise like porn? That's porn you've you've seriously never heard anyone say that like say a silly little song about porn. No, I've not what There they are my brave fellow combatants Hi you lie. I gotta tell you guys. I gotta say I had my doubts I was up all night thinking why why don't we just not, you know? But you know, now that we're here and now that we're doing it, it just, it feels good, you know, it feels good. It's just gonna be all out there.

I do, what are you talking about? Oh, just this week's show. We're gonna talk about all the forbidden places that are podcasts aren't allowed to go. Like, you know and and whoa definitely not doing an episode about it either of those things nope oh Eli this week's episode is about literally forbidden places you know like monkey island and stuff like that

uh for forbidden like you can't go there yes yes oh okay well that I honestly that's a little bit of a relief. Why do you have a bunch of pictures of Anthony Bourdain on a whiteboard? Doesn't matter now, Tom. Doesn't matter now. Hello and welcome to CitationNeeded, the podcast where we choose a subject read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the internet and that's how it works now. I'm Noah, I'm going to be guiding you through this unofficial tour season will be unable to join us

But I can't do it without a few accomplices first up. Please welcome my visually impaired lookouts Tom and Eli Okay, let's see what you did there Barely do you okay? And you telling everyone about my glasses is actually a hippo violation so Ready to hear from our lawyer It's close to a hippo violation, so you're ready to hear from our lawyer. It's close to a hippo violation, doesn't hippo one, yeah. And also, of course, joining us is the guy who won't admit that he's too tall to fit inside that bush costume anymore.

Keith. Okay. Still going to murder Kennedy, though. Okay. So, obviously we can't get started without thanking our patrons because we couldn't do the show if it wasn't for them. And if you'd like to learn how to join their ranks, be sure to stick around to the end of the show.

And with that out of the way, tell us Eli, what person placed in concept phenomenon or event will we be talking about today? We'll be talking about forbidden places. All right, and Tom, you read the slide show, probably. Are you ready to tell us what you learned? Okay, it's an amalgamation of many slide shows. Noah, read a listicle on hot news, Are you ready to tell us what you learned? Okay, it's an amalgamation of many slideshows. Noah.

Read a listicle on hot news. Outrageous. All right, so why did you choose this topic? All right, so in March of 2020, after the world stop being useful and worth living in, I gave up on trying to go places or find joy in life. Instead, I work in my basement, getting rickets, and gazing loggingly at books and magazines filled with exotic places I wanted to go when I still bother to have dreams. But the world isn't only filled with this kind of joyful, insta-worthy

beauty. In fact, there are a hell of a lot of very interesting and very strange places that are forbidden, not because the world has entered its slow motion descent into entropy fueled madness but because these places are quite simply off fucking limits. You know, I used to worry about the opening paragraphs of Tom's essays but now I like it. It's like a fun little check in on his descent into madness. It's a through line for the podcast. Yeah, right. It's like he's sexual discovery.

Exactly. Exactly. It's a madness. I like that's sexual discovery. Exactly. Exactly. I like that he has a basement full of physical books and magazines that he looks on. Yeah, I do. Keep a national geographic life one man. It's not.

All right. All right, let's start with Monkey Island, which is not really called Monkey Island, but also, yes it fucking is. Well, yeah, I mean, you just called it that. I, I, I don't hear no sirens. I'm talking here about a 2000 acre island off the coast of South Carolina that is home to 4,000 recess monkeys and absolutely no other primates, including people.

You see, in 1979, after India banned the export of monkeys for research purposes, the US government needed a fresh source of simmians. The solution, of course, was to establish a self-sufficient breeding population of a racist reserves that they could tap into whenever they needed. They ceded Morgan Island off the coast of South Carolina with 1,400 monkeys, and the monkeys got down to business well enough that 43 years later, the island is now home to 4,000 of these horrible little critters. Oh, all right. For whatever it's worth, that would technically be the least

horrible collection of 4,000 primates in all of South Carolina. Right. Did anyone else feel like they stopped thinking after the first guy said, why don't we just start a monkey added? There has to be a better ways Source monkeys It's better than just like monkey mainland town, I guess true This is for all we know that was the first idea. That was exactly. We could each get him a typewriter.

This is how I care a lot. More literate than everybody in South Carolina. Yeah. The government has in the intervening years grown cold on the need for monkeys. Probably after Matthew Broderick made us all feel bad for nuking them and project acts, but yeah, I'm sure that's what did it Yeah, but what do you do with an island full of monkeys that are just fucking away creating 750 new monkeys every year Well the government collects about 500 of them and secrets them away to research labs so that the outbreak monkey doesn't feel lonely The island itself is federally protected. It is strictly off limits

Which is for everyone's protection since these monkeys are fiercely territorial and will cheerfully use their terrifying little hands to rip you to pieces if they can. Oh, and they also have herpes. What? That is a true thing. The original breeding stock was actually acquired from a research facility in Puerto Rico after a bunch of these herpes monkeys escaped and freaked out

the locals. Okay, I actually looked this up. So according to Wikipedia, the facility in Puerto Rico got overpopulated and there were outbreaks of herpes among people in the surrounding area in Puerto Rico you say. At which point, quote, South Carolina stepped in We know Hey, I heard you guys have an issue with 4000 herpetic fucking ninjas. I believe we can be of service We're basically Sounds like you guys are fucking your monkeys. Would you like someone to hide the evidence on a forbidden island?

Alright, now if monkeys aren't your thing and they shouldn't be because monkeys are awful and scary and I hate them, consider not going to another horrifying island full of death. I am referring here to Snake Island or Ila de Cuomara Grande. This is a little spit of garbage land, 20 miles off the southeastern part of Brazil. This Indiana Jones Nightmare destination is only 106 acres or so in size, but the goddamn place is just absolutely chock full of snakes. Like how chock full, some estimates hold that there is one snake for every square meter of the island.

Jesus. However, when I then fact check that, because it sounded insane, it turns out that is obviously impossible and untrue, since there would be no way any island could sustain quite that many fucking snakes. Well, actually, a little down effect. Massive snake populations can survive indefinitely without food. If it wasn't for that a lot of Egyptian temple traps wouldn't even make sense. Indian just falls in it's just a bunch of snake corpses

that are like right what would they eat? Skeletons! What would they even... Oh just one really overweight snake. Uh... winner! I don't take any treasure okay oh don't go up that ramp oh god I made my piece with this I'm the snake all right well still there are a lot of goddamn snakes on this island estimates by people who have science degrees, put the number at around 3,000 snakes. But this is still on an island of only 106 acres. And these aren't just regular snakes, these aren't like garter snakes, these are a unique

species of venomous viper that exist nowhere else on earth, save this one island which should absolutely be nuked from orbit. This viper is called the golden lance head viper and it has a venom that is hemotoxic and is one of the most venomous snakes in South America. Cool. So aside from James Bond villain layers, any clue why this island exists. Tom. No, the Brazilian government declared snake island be off limits to all but a very few. Occasionally, researchers will be granted a permit to study snake stuff on snake. Or dissidents probably be given the permit.

But to be given the permit, any scientific team is required to travel with a doctor, presumably so that someone can officially call the time of death. Now, there is a lighthouse on the island so that ships don't accidentally run aground, thereby forcing sailors to choose between drowning, or having their red blood cells explode in their bodies like pop rocks until they bleed out within their own skin. Okay. Do you guys feel like Tom's setting up a Kumite tournament between the murder islands?

Yeah! I'm excellent. Round one, it's Snake Island versus Monkey Island. I'm betting on the snakes for Round one. I think I like the snakes. I would take that bet. What are you giving me? Yeah!

You even seen Kong versus Godzilla. I'll give you two to one. Snake Feet the Moves. Those are great snake-haws. Those are those are great snake odds. Are you crazy? The mom's is the only thing that ever wins in the like blank versus blank fights when one of the blanks is snake It's never anything but mongers. I could be the snake. You could beat up a snake. Wow. Okay. We're doing that now too All right, that's round two 100% that's round two. Let's make that round one actually. Let's make that the play in line.

I guess still because humans are what we are, and these snakes are actually super rare on a global level, and since it's impossible to convince fools that scarcity is not a synonym for value, there is a market for these muscle tubes full of poison. As a result, bio-pirates have been known to sneak onto the island to poach these danger noodles so some hapless mule can get caught with a Pringles can full of poison snakes on a flight to the fucking reptile show in Akron. Okay, Pringles can full of poison snakes on the fucking flight to a reptile show in Akron

as the kind of sentence that feels like it just activated the winter soldier. What? Now let's not head now to another island where you absolutely should not go. North Sentinel Island. North Sentinel is one of a number of small islands in a chain along India's Bay of Bengal. Owing a part to the geography of the island, it's not near any major shipping routes, it has no natural harbors, it is surrounded by reefs, nor Sentinel is a pain in the ass to get to.

And that suits its inhabitants just fine. Just Leo de Caprio until the Swinton stuck in a reef in their canoe. Nor Sentinel Islands. Like, no, thank you. No, thank you. Go back. Go back to it. We're sent lines like no thank you. No thank you go back. Go back to it. You're going to fuck it up.

You're definitely going to fuck it up. Just go ahead and back back there. So the inhabitants of North Sentinel Island are and have been for thousands of years completely uninterested in and hostile to contact from the outside world. In fact, their isolation, I think this is fascinating. Their isolation is so complete that nobody knows what they call themselves because they do not share a language with

anyone else in the world. The inhabitants of other islands and the nearby Andaman group of islands cannot communicate with the North Sentinelese at all. There is no shared dialect. Yeah. Okay. But the tone of, go the fuck away and no white hippies, please. I feel like that's pretty universal Regardless of the exact wording the noise of it, you know Remember back when we weren't jealous of them Now attempts have been made on multiple occasions over the years to make and maintain contact The results have been to be very generous, unsuccessful. Armed with bows and arrows, the North Sentinelese fiercely guard their island from interlopers.

Again, universal language bows down like dollars. In 1871, an Indian merchant vessel, the Nineveh ran a ground on the reef of North Sentinel Island. 86 passengers and 20 crew made it ashore, and were left alone for three days before the North Sentinelese decided that they had enough of the house guests and they attacked with their bows and arrows. Now, the total population of North Sentinel Island isn't actually known, but it's not a lot of people. Somewhere, and I swear, these are the numbers

that I read between 15 and 500, with most estimates closer to 150. So when the North Sentinelese men attacked the shipwrecked Indians, they very likely did not have an overwhelming force of numbers. Okay, okay, someone run over there and sneeze on one of them. We have no choice, guys. Give me a hug. The survivors managed to hold off the North Sentinelese until they were rescued, but this would set the tone for pretty much every encounter with the outside world. In 1896, an escaped convict fled the great Andaman Penal colony on a makeshift raft only to wash up on North Sentinel Island.

A search party found his body with his throat cut and bristling like a hedgehog with arrows. At first they're like, oh, we must have run out of rings. Oh, you know what? That's a guy. Everybody pretty much left them the fuck alone for the next hundred years or so. For real, an anthropologist named Trinik Neff Pendet worked way harder trying to build some trust with the North Sentinelese than I have or will try to do anything ever. For years and years and years, this guy would very, very carefully take a little boat over to the beach to drop off gifts in an attempt to build trust. It kind of worked in the

sense that Pandi wasn't killed outright, though when he tried once to bring a photographer with him from National Geographic, that guy ended up with an arrow sticking out of his thigh. The closest Pantit ever really got was that he wasn't always greeted at the beach with raised arrows pointed at his face while he dropped off sacks of coconuts. Okay coconuts is a weird pick. I feel like the sentinels were like, Hey, man, that's a nice gesture. But we know how fucking trees work.

Like, I don't know. I've had it next time. Or like, it's box. I don't know. In 1981, a cargo ship called the Primrose ran aground and 28 people ended up on North Sentinel Island. They were rescued by helicopter, but the North Sentinelese were so unafraid and unimpressed that they shot at the rescue helicopter with their bows and arrows.

It doesn't make sense because we know they couldn't see it. That's like, it's classic. I saw it in a movie. In 2004, when helicopters flew over the island to assess damage after the tsunami, they ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha isolationist in hostile we'll have to let them elect some supreme court justices in my room. In 2006 two crab fisherman drifted ashore both men were killed and buried given this history you might think that I don't know jackass missionaries would pick almost anywhere else at all to try to evangelize but you would of course be wrong in 2018 2018, John Allen Chow got exactly what he absolutely deserved when he finagled his way out of the beach and

stood there singing hymns. So happy about this story, at least the end of the show. They're absolute fucking credit. The North Sentinelese tried twice to chase this idiot away, but when he returned singing his stupid vacation Bible school songs They filled him full of arrows and buried his dumb corpse. I feel I feel like they're like hey, can you show us your CDC card? It is still unclear if anyone has reached them to discuss their cars extended warranty Okay, I think it's time to stop using the word missionary though. It's intruder with a bad book.

That's what that is. Right. How dare they sell the reputation of vanilla sex in that way. So while we worship some other titles, we're going to pause for a little apropos of nothing. Tummy slabs. Good evening and welcome to our magical world. I'm Heva Dechenbura and this evening we have a very special treat. Contact with the mysterious North Centilines Island at last!

And I have the honor of speaking to one of them this evening. Mr. No illusions, thank you so much. Fuck you. Could you fucking microphone on my fucking face? Yes, yes. That does bring me to my first question. Why such hostility from your tribe over the years to outsiders? Well, you assholes keep showing up at our fucking home. Do you like it when people show up at your house uninvited? It, I suppose not. Even when they bring coconuts. Yeah, yeah, so how would you feel if those people show up at your house uninvited? It...I suppose not. Even when they bring coconuts, yeah, yeah. So how would you feel if those people showed up at your house

when they were in a totally different color, a skin, technology thousands of years in the future from years and not speaking your language? Oh, I guess I wouldn't like that. No, you wouldn't fucking like it. Every third movie you ask, always makes about an alien half as invasive as you. And then you come along and you blow them up for it.

It's true, but what do you suggest we do? I mean, there's so much we could learn from your people sociologically. Just do what you do with literally every other sociological fine throughout history. You're rightful through our shit when we're dead. Which, hey, good news. It's gonna be any day now, thanks to you guys turning the planet into a fucking hot box. Yep. Alright. Well, um... Anything you'd like to tell the outside world, anything you found, uh, particularly impressive in your time here.

Well, lucky charms are pretty good. Keep those. Keep doing that. Very well, there you have it. The first, and I expect last recorded conversation with the North Centenileese Island. Uh, you know they make a version that's just the marshmallows. Your kid is really nice. It is, yes. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUT OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUT my retirement plans as though they were everybody's business. Tom, what other forbidden places do you have for us? Okay, now we're going to actually shift gears and talk about places in the world that are forbidden because some rich fucks won't let you play there. We're going to start with my favorite.

This is the Bohemian Grove Men's Club, which you cannot join unless that is you are an ultra powerful, ultra wealthy Republican white man, then you probably actually can't join it. The Bohemian Grove Men's Club has been around for a long time since 1872 in fact, Mark Twain was a member and Literally every Republican president since Coolidge has been a member. All of them since Coolidge and Also some perfectly nice people who might be related to the adorable heart and soul of your podcast, Tom. Do you get a judgy Irish bitch? I'm saying.

Who are you related to? What? Really? Yeah. They let Jewish people in there? No way. Yeah, they let some, if you're rich enough, they let some Jews in there. Wow.

Woke. Nice. The Bohemian Grove Men's Club is in Northern California, nestled among the red woods, and is actually a campsite with 118 sites around a mad-made lake over which a huge owl shrine looks down waiting to be used for its cremation of care ceremony. More on that in a minute. There are about 2500 members of this ultra-exclusive club, and I read several articles from people who try to

infiltrate their ranks, and they all emphasize that one of these central values is that the men are allowed to openly piss anywhere they want. What? Yeah, for real. From the article, this is a big deal from the article inside Bohemian Grove Philip Weiss writes, you know you are inside the Bohemian Grove when you come down a trail in the woods and hear piano music from a mid-a group of tents and then round a bend to see a man with a beer in one hand urinating into the bushes. This is the most gloried in ritual of the encampment, the freedom of powerful men to pee wherever they like. Okay. You think the libertarian thing would really break down when you have a urinary

freedom box. Yeah. Are you on it? Apparently not. Maybe they're into it. Okay. I realize everyone had such loyalty to toilets at camp haka mucker wherever your family goes to I don't know why I'm defending this Now not every powerful man who's been exposed to BGMC is so enamored of it Richard Nixon is quoted as calling it the most Faggy goddamn thing you could imagine While Bill Clinton once told a heckler quote, the Bohemian Club, did you say the Bohemian Club? That's where all those rich Republicans go and stand naked against redwood trees, right?

And quote, see, you know, not for everyone. Okay, personally, I'd love to find a bunch of Republican guys standing naked against a tree. Like, this is a weird comment, especially from bill clinton he couldn't think anything to do with that they see he recognizes intent start p i told you would circle back to their ceremonies

and here we are since most of us can't pay the twenty five thousand dollar upfront fee or the yearly dues and none of us are likely to be sponsored by any of the current members. This right here is likely as close as we will ever come to camping and pissing in the great outdoors with Dick Cheney. Imagine a coffin effigy called care, which is burned while members wearing costumes stand

in deference in front of a 40 foot tall owl statue. This ritual symbolizes something. I don't know. Maybe I'm not doing a justice. That's tricky. Here's a quote from that same guy who infiltrated the club. Quote. At this point, some hemorrhids, tree spirits, and another priest or two appeared at the base of the main owl shrine of 40 foot tall, mossed statue of stone and steel at the south end of the lake, and sing songs about care. They told how a man's heart is divided between fantasy and reality, how it is necessary to escape to another world of fellowship among men.

Vagely homosexual undertones suffused this spectacle as they do much of the ritualized life in the grove. The main priest wore a pink and green satin costume, while a homodriid appeared before a redwood in a gold-spangled bodysuit dripping with rhinestones. They spoke of fairy unguents that would free men to pursue warm fellowship. And I was reminded of something Herman Wauke wrote about the grove. Men can decently love each other. They always have, but women never quite understand."

Okay, if you just take that part in isolation, it sounds like a delightful camping retreat with magical vuxedos. Republicans ruin everything. That's right. Republicans ruin everything. That sounds great. Yeah. Fire Island plus an owl isn't quite the Satanic Haven we were promised, isn't it? It's as much fun as it probably sounds to get day drunk in the woods with George W. Bush, spraying piss everywhere, like a feral Tomcat marking his territory.

Well, a guy dressed as Liberace stands in front of an enormous fake bird, telling you that it's okay to feel your feelings. He just aren't getting in guys. So we need to move on to another place you can't go. Well, I mean, Eli might have an end, but yeah, there's no way he's going to spend multiple consecutive hours in woods. So yeah, now Disney vacations are as everyone everyone knows, cripplingly expensive.

And it is fast becoming entirely out of reach for the majority of middle class families. I assure the average middle class family might be able to save enough in a year to go to Disney if they stay off site. And they are willing to spend the day standing in the unforgiving heat in endless lines. But if you want to even remotely pretend to yourself that you are not miserable, you'll need to keep dipping into the piggy bank for fast passes and accommodations on the property. I was like, TSA pre-check. They have like a spend.

Yeah, and you can roast. Pick the times ahead of time. You just walk right in. Yep. If you got the money. It's the best. The average cost for a family of four to spend five days at the park is a touch over $6,000 or about 8%

of the pre-tax income for that same average amount of family. Okay, yeah, that sounds terrible. Like, who would want a family of four? That's a nice way. Yeah. Okay, you're coming for Disney now, Tom. Disney, what's next?

Wet dreams? Yeah, Tom What else do you have in common with Ron DeSantis? Thank you one thing one thing you like a couple of your favorite things are Disney and wet dreams We're all like you like wet dreams I feel like that's Extremely frustrated because you have to wake up That's extremely frustrating because you have to wake up Yeah, that's like the most effortless of all the orgasms Thank you. No, we are a tie Cecil if you're hearing this

right in and just drop how you feel about wet dreams Right here Leave up everyone leave a pause We won. We won. We're gonna assume. We won. He lied.

Yeah. But that's $6,000. We're moving on from what dreams. But that $6,000 is a laughable sum compared to the lavish options available buying into club 33. Oh, oooh. Club, no, oooh. This is nonsense.

Club 33 was originally started by Walt Disney himself as a place to entertain his own guests and business associates, and it is now an ultra expensive VIP Disney snobbery extravaganza for the most obsessed wealthy initial fees to join. If you can get off the wait list, the wait list by the way is about 10 years ranges between 25 and a hundred thousand dollars. Jesus. There are also annual fees which range from the slumming it with Mickey level of 12,500 to the we'll let you fuck many level of 30,000 dollars. So your first year at Club 33 is going to cost you between 37,500 and $130,000. Okay, that's crazy. For that kind of money, you could get peed on by Dick Cheney in the woods. Why would you

come to the world? All right, so what do you get if you can get off the waiting list and spend enough to finance a four year university degree at Disney? Well, you get access to a really gaudy and tacky lounge area in restaurant. The restaurant is, of course, a restaurant you have to still pay at. And there is a gift shop with designer club 33 Merch you can buy. There's a bunch of memorabilia to look at.

And you get some park passes, too. That's kind of it. That's what you get. That's what you fucking get for tens of thousands of dollars. I guess one is not forbidden so much as it is so fantastically absurdly not worth it that you'd have to be smelling burk toast all day every day to hand over your credit card for this one. No, Raw. See, Tom didn't even mention. You can also rent the bedroom in Cinderella's castle and you get access to Club 33 only events, including a behind the scenes tour

of the haunted mansion with the Imagineers who made it, and they do it once a year. Do you think you're making points in your favor right now? My next essay is about how Scotch is stupid, and you guys, you see how you like it? I bet you Club 33 is something racist. I bet there's some origin, that's like a Nazi, like Nazi 88. It's like almost an 88 with a little bit missing.

Like they didn't want to quite say it. They actually have this thing called the white glove service. That's a, I don't want to get into it. No, tell us more about that. You're making a really good point. It's not gonna go. It's a bummer. It's a real, you're a big fan of Walt Disney.

What is the white glove? You get, you get, you get a hand job with a white glove. It's worse. It's actually worse It is actually literally worse people dress like old-timey servants when you stay there if you's yikes in the way It gets worse because one of the things is very famously based on a southern plantation and until like 2018 The servants there Dressed are you serious like people who were not there? Oh my god Yeah, cool. I have something in common to Ron to Santa's now It's like it's like a tangential and me a little bit. Just this one little thing. I'm only Disney personally

And me he's a little bit me just this one little thing. I don't know if Disney personally is different now Yeah four years later we're kind of not yeah, yeah, it has been for almost a presidential administration And then there is Robin's island which is very likely these single most expensive piece of real estate in the Hamptons, and virtually nothing is known about what is actually there. This 42-acre island was purchased by billionaire Louis Bacon in 1993 for only $11 million in the property got caught up in a bankruptcy dispute. That property is now worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 million. Though that number is something of a guess, since no one is allowed on the island, except for a tiny handful of bacon's personal guests. As a result, no one really knows how

well the land is developed, or what kind of infrastructure exists on the island. Satellite images show two sizeable estates and some outbuildings, but that's really all the detail anyone has about what's on the island. First guess, you're in everywhere. See, my first guess was at least one of those outbuildings contains a laser that you see used to bifurcate the hero while you monologue about your brand plan. So Bacon intends to keep his privacy. In 1997, Bacon granted a conservation easement to the nature conservancy, which made the island a protected wilderness area, and the property has been transferred into a family

trust to prevent any further development of the land. Robbins Island exists now as a private Hampton's estate, where Bacon occasionally hosts English style fesent shoots for his friends, including Jimmy Buffett, but otherwise seems content to just casually own an entire goddamn island in New York. Also he 100% huntsmen for sport on that. Yeah. Okay, round two, I'm betting on the snakes to beat up the rich people.

I'm really happy about this Cumete, you're setting up. Yeah, I really like how shaping up. Okay, but in his defense, if Jimmy Buffett haunted you for sport, you know he would do it in the chillest way. Right. He's in a fun shirt. He's got a Marco Rita. He shoots you.

Now, if you find yourself, let's just begin that. Now, if you find yourself in Northern England, you might decide to visit some of the magnificent formal gardens that England is rightfully famous for. If you do, be careful. At the Elmock Garden, behind a locked gate is a garden within the garden. Full of plants so deadly that some of the few tourists who have visited have on occasion

been known to lose consciousness from an ill-chosen smelling of the roses. Yeah, there are a cuisine there does the same thing, actually. Terrible. In 1995, Jane Percy became the Duchess of Northumberland. And in addition to the title, she also gained Ellen MacCastle, which incidentally was the setting of Hogwarts in two of the Harry Potter movies. Her husband asked Jane to do something about the gardens, which at the time had been converted to a commercial Christmas tree farm.

So Jane said about turning the Christmas tree farm into a sprawling 14-acre manicured garden that attracts over 600,000 visitors a year, but the hidden gem is her garden of lethal plants. Yeah, when it's my turn to do the dishes, I poison a single spoon. So I get it. Yeah. Now, this garden is no joke. Visitors to the garden are only allowed access under the care and supervision of a highly

trained guide. Visitors are strictly prohibited, not just from touching or tasting the plants, but even from smelling them. I like to think don't taste the plants is sort of standard garden rules, Tom. I don't think that I is sort of standard garden rules, Tom. I don't think it has applied to this one. Now, this is, as I mentioned before, this is not a theoretical or hyperbolic danger. In the summer of 2013, seven visitors lost consciousness on a tour from inhaling toxic fumes from within the garrisons. What? Okay, so you mentioned a highly trained guard. What was the guide highly trained in? And why the fuck did he have customers?

You're saying everything in there will kill me. Maytag repairmen of tour guides. And this, this I love because the Dutchist clearly takes a great deal of pride and And this, this I love because the Duchess clearly takes a great deal of pride and interest in her toxic garden. She is quoted in the Smithsonian article I read about this place as saying, Angels Trump it is an amazing aphrodisiac before it kills you. She continues, Angels Trump it is an amazing way to die because it's quite pain free. A great killer is usually an incredible

Aphrodisiac. What? She then uncrossed her legs and stabbed Michael Douglas to death with an ice pick. Okay. First of all, Jane was definitely fucking those plans. Love that. But I'm confused about how the Aphrodisiac property is a good thing there. Like unless you have a really cool escort to the garden, that just means you're dying and you want to fuck but you can't because again you're dying. Yes, right? Thank you. I don't really.

That's not English thing. He wouldn't get it. It's like a wet dream, but you know, it's dry. It's a dry dream. That's horrible. And you die. So I want to leave you with one more beautiful piece in nature, you absolutely should leave the fuck alone. This is Kila Toa crater lake in Ecuador. This lake is preternaturally beautiful and to look at it, you might think about how

nice it would be to take a swim in its pristine blue water. You absolutely do not want to take a swim in the pristine blue water. First the lake sits at a ridiculous altitude of 12,500 feet so it is fucking cold. It is really really cold. And the air is thin at 12,500 feet. And altitude sickness is not uncommon at that height. So unless you live or train at altitude, you are going to be out of breath just walking around much less trying to swim in brutally cold water. Way ahead of you Tom, I've been practicing being out of breath walking around for years now. Dracatella here I come.

And this lake is deep. It is over 800 feet deep in places, with sudden plunging drop-offs. The crater lake formed when a volcano erupted, and the volcanic dome collapsed and filled in with water. And those volcanic deposits make the lake look just insanely beautiful, but they also make the water so acidic that nothing can survive in the lake other than some very hardy microorganisms. Basically, it is a beautiful, inviting lake that is really a cauldron of freezing cold acid water over which the air is so thin that even trying to drink a glass of mango nectar will make you pant.

Okay, like I said, I've been training for years. I feel like you don't have to bother telling us it's cold and deep, but it's also a lake of acid. I'm very cold. I'm trying to flesh these paragraphs out, no, like work with me. I feel like people are definitely disposing dead bodies there. That seems perfect, right? Sure. Yeah, you just have to haul it 12,500 feet up a mountain side. If you do the murder next Somebody on an Ecuador invocation right right. Yo Eli is immune to this form of homicide Eli, you've been aquedore No, I just can't walk we should go on vacation together

Tom and Eli having a bad time for Tom. Bad times for Tom in Europe or whatever he said. Equal to what you're up. And if you had to surprise what you learned in one sentence, other than where Ecuador is, what would it be? Stay the fuck home. Where's Ecuador? Marico?

All right. So are you ready for the quiz, Tom? Where's Ecuador? Meeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Mother-daughter thresal. B, whatever the fuck we watched on e-bounds world as teenagers Or C, being a woman below the Mason Dixon line. Oh depressing. All right. Well since you're gonna suck all the air out of the room the answer is C That's correct. All right. I got one for you Tom. Which worship song should that jackass missionary the North Sentinel's people killed have been singing at the time? Hey, an almost mighty enough fortress is our god B his eye is on the arrow Narrow grits. It's a spare his eyes on the sparrows. Anyway, see, holy, holy, holy shit. Or D, we shall in fact be moved. Oh, I like D. We shall in fact be moved.

It is D. That is correct. All right, Tom, one more for you. All right. What's the best aspect of my upcoming documentary about the Republican P camp at Bohemian growth? Hey, it's called GOP. B, the subtitle is All Lives Blatter. The section about Richard Nixon is called Dickie Leaks. Dickie Leaks.

Dickie Leaks. Ben Shapiro finally got someone wet. Hahaha. Hahaha. Secret answer, E.I. Refused to choose. Those are all too good. That is correct or not? Yes, correct. Noah, what do you think? I think it's correct.

Alright, well obviously the winner is Cecil. He wouldn't even take a tour of these places because they were so forbidden and I think we can all agree that he would want me to do the next asset. So for Eli Heath and Tom, I'm Noah, thank you for hanging out with us today. We're gonna be back next week and by then I'll be an expert on something else. Between now and then you can catch more from Tom and Cecil on cognitive dissonance and more from Eli Heath and me on the Skating Atheist God off from movies to Skeptocrat and D&D Minus. Also, be sure to check out Tom and Eli's new show on parenting, D-Roll Dads and Heath Cecil on my show on not parenting, D-Roll Dads, and Heath Cecil and Mike's show on not parenting

D-Roll having money and spare time And if you'd like to help keep this show going, you can make a pre-episode donation at patreon.com slash citation pod or leave a Subscribe star review everywhere you can and if you'd like to get in touch with us check out past episodes connect with social media or check the show notes Be sure to check out citation pod dot com Yes, hello, yes my queen. No, I'm afraid they didn't take the bait and Cecil will be back next week, but don't worry There's still time There's still time. Eli stop trying to do a D&D minus podcast of first crossover. Nobody even listens to that show Listen to what nothing nothing

cross over. Nobody even listens to that show. I listen to it. What? Nothing. Nothing.