Citation Needed - Heaven's Gate

Episode Date: February 14, 2018

Heaven's Gate was an American UFO religious millenarian cult based in San Diego, California, founded in 1974 and led by Marshall Applewhite(1931–1997) and Bonnie Nettles (1927–1985) until their deaths.[1] On March 26, 1997, police discovered the bodies of 39 members of the group, who had participated in a mass suicide in order to reach what they believed was an extraterrestrial spacecraft following Comet Hale–Bopp.[2][3]   Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

All right. So we're doing a show about a mass suicide this week. I'm thinking we should have Eli sit this one out. What do you guys think? Yes. Yeah. That's all we did go to the deal. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I took care of that already. I told Eli I booked a best friend's spa weekend in Russia and I paid Dave girl to pretend he's me. Eli's not going to be back for at least a few more days at this point. All right. Perfect.

Perfect. Nice work. So we'll just skip the part with Eli doing his typical, like over the top crazy behavior related to the theme of the episode. And we can just like start the show. Sounds good. Yeah, very reasonable. Perfect. Absolutely. Okay, great. Good late man.

Oh yeah. Oh, come on. Look, now come a day! How come are you back already? Absolutely no, no to whatever this is. Oh! And you're still sitting out the episode. Oh!

Ooh, cool it man. Hello and welcome to Citation Needed, the podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend were experts because this is the internet and that's how it works now. I'm Marissa and I'll be the guest host for tonight, leading our cult of impersonalities through another whatever the fuck you guys call this. First up, we have two people who treat food like the president treats of a giant. All right, okay, fair enough. But when I get herpes from food, the restaurant pays me 130 grams. This is okay.

I don't even understand that line. Like, I eat food. I don't just go around grabbing other people's tacos. Yes. Yes. Weird. And also joining us are Geriatric Legolas with Crohn's disease and Geriatric Himmley

with the opposite of the opposites disease. He's on that. I've like a whole beard full of ingrown hair. But we're both geriatric and disease, but I started off hot. That's what she's saying. That's what I'm going. A little agree to this thing. Before we get started, I'd like to thank all the patrons, mostly me.

I'm like, easily the best one. Some of my best friends are even patrons. And if you're feeling generous like me, be sure to stick around till the end of these show where we'll explain how you can go to help out and be like me, but not as good, almost. But with that, Tom, what person place thing, concept phenomenon or event?

Will we be breaking down the day? We'll be talking about heaven's gate and he if you prepared for the comment to show us the way home Are you ready to have the correct change in your pocket? That is a role of quarters and I'm happy Forresta Matter the coin It doesn't matter the coin. Canadian diners. So tell us, what was heaven's gate? All right, heaven's gate was a cult founded in 1974 by Marshall Applewhite and his partner Bonnie Nettles, who are the creepiest couple ever.

If you've ever been murder-raped by an elderly couple in a motel hot tub, you got a pretty good picture in your head That's about right. It is sitting there relaxing and inflatable hemorrhoid cushion floats by with some prune juice Spine background a bottle of corn Oh come on, I didn't think you talked about that I mean all inclusive means different things to different people I'm getting the most for my money is what I'm saying. Yes. So, uh, those people started a cult. And it was based on the principles of end times Christianity, UFOs,

pseudo astronomy and self discipline. Basically, they created a mashup of everything that I personally hate in the world. I mean, fucking religion out of it. But they also added Darwinian mass suicide. So that got me back on board. That's just good eugenics. Probably get Eli back on board too.

All you have to do is mention suicide. And as you're starting pivving around like is a German shepherd. It's like, I feel like for me, like the self-discipline piece is really the cult deal breaker. I mean, like, right? I'm like, I'm going for the heat and the stick cult,

though, like, sign me up for eating and fucking up, blame it on Jesus, you have foes, I don't give a fuck. What are you blaming on now, Tom? Cecil. What? I'm just, Yeah. All right. So let's start with some background on the founders. Marshall Apple White was born in spur Texas in 1931 spur, which already tells you a lot. He was born into place named for a piece of metal that you stick in a horse's ass.

He's just, and This is good man. Weird hobbies man. Not everybody can eat and have sex all the time. Apple its father was a Christian fundamentalist minister, which meant that young Marshall grew up as a super creepy religious kid. Basically he was training to be a serial killer since he was like a fetus. I told you guys, common core is going to be the death of us all. The rights. So it should be left behind. I feel you're when you're easy bake oven comes with its own deep freezer. The path is pretty much already laid out for you. After high school, Marshall, Appaloiate earned a BA at Austin College, got married and eventually enrolled at a

seminary to become a minister. And it turns out they teach you exactly the same skills you need to be a cult leader. But he got tired of the seminary. So he left and ended up missing the day class when they tell you, you know, don't organize a mass suicide because of a UFO that you made up. Pin in that for later. Aboids plan after quitting the seminary was to focus on his music career. And by that, I mean, he became the music director at a church in North Carolina. Shoot low. Shoot low.

And in 1954, he got drafted into the army and served two years before eventually moving to New York City to become a professional singer. And by that, I mean, he waited tables for a while before leaving New York to press broken down. Well, that would have been a very different version of rent. Yeah. Lot more soprano. I mean, this is a story about a call to probably like rent control. My first pass. So you can make it on your own. He's ready to spread his wings and fly.

It's a beautiful moment. It's just this angry libertarian musical called rent control. There's a lot of people. All right. So from there, Apple White did what any intelligent person who lives in New York City hates their job at T.J. Friday's and can barely afford the rent on their closet would do. He moved to the deep South. And since podcasting wasn't a thing yet, he got a job as a music teacher at the University of Alabama. But pretty soon after that, he got fired for fucking one of his students.

Now normally that'd be fine in Roy Moore country, but it was a male student and Alabama was having enough trouble with blacks trying to be people at this point. So they couldn't even with the gay people. It's Ruckian Mistakey should have waited until he had tenure and then he's unfiable. Right. Is the student you mean? He's about tenure.

Suddenly, it feels like the plot to get out, except in this case, they're just saying that to keep Apple White out of their kids wrecked them. But it goes to show that he dropped out a seminary, but he was still there in spirit. Look, it figures I finally get to hang out with you guys again, and the only gay shit to mention happened in Alabama in the 70s. I mean, I already fucking feel out of places it is. Like, this show is all guys. I'll just break guys and here I come in and it's like,

oh, damn. Following the fair with his student, Alboite ended up getting divorced from his wife and moving to Texas for another job as a music teacher. This one worked out about equally well. Within a few years, he'd fucked another student, had a psychological breakdown, and left town again, eventually landing in a mental hospital. And this is where the end times Christian culty stuff starts happening, as you might guess.

Someone needs to teach this guy not to play with the minor key, you know? the minor key. You know? So it's 1972. Apple lights in the asylum. And this is when he meets Bonnie Nettles, his soon to be cult partner. Nettles was a nurse at the mental hospital where Apple it was living and being treated for delusional schizophrenia. And she thought this was a great scenario for telling him that she was foretold about their

meeting by aliens and that he had a divine assignment in life. She's the nurse. So the nurse. This is the nurse at the mental hospital. Yep. You see, honestly, if mental hospitals existed throughout history, this is exactly the origin story of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph, and the hells. Well, I mean, besides people being wrong about us trans people

being mentally ill and if they are, this is the company they wanted us to keep in the process. I'm suddenly feeling a lot more cis. I can slowly pass. I can two times voice recording live from glory, whole studios in Chicago. See, I can do it. I can do it. Nobody does my voice. My voice does other people. Gallant day. Sitch Washington is not a first. I can do it. I can't. I know. I was here for that. So, uh, I'll wait and Nettles end up moving in together so they can have a deep and meaningful

no sex relationship with is terrifying. Oh, that marriage. Yeah, so, uh, they get all obsessed with books about Lovatsky and Theosophy. Oh, that sounds like bullshit. Geez, that phase. Oh, so, in case anyone's not familiar, that's a religion that was started in 1875 by a Russian lady named Helena Lovatsky,

who believed she was possessed by ancient ninjas from Tibet with magical powers. And, right away, with regular ninjas are ninja turtles. I just like that. The people the man answers he. It's turtles all the way down. Yeah, magical ninjas, maybe turtles also. And the religion, they're pretty sure there are protagonists in a kung fu movie.

And all they have to do is blend all the different religion styles into one master style. And they'll win the religion and game. It's not clear. This whole time I thought Ralph Machia was impersonating a crank kick. He's just doing the Jesus cross in that pose. That's what he's doing. How did I even miss this one in comparative religion? I would have picked any religion that's sparring as part of its theology and anger. I would have at least been more interesting than learning about the laymanites again.

laminites again. Now we read from the him of Putam in a body bag. If you'd have to me, there is no forgiveness in this dough dough. No sense. One of the detail about theosophy, just for the record their society has an emblem that contains both a star of David and a swastika now what conflict both of those things yeah so credit they drew their logo well before nazis used the swastika but apple white and nettles got into the ossefe well after stuff with swastika, but Apple White and nettles got into theosophy well after stuff with swastikas should have been a warning sign. And well after it became clear that theosophy is nonsense. That's pretty much only used for dirty hippies, try to start lazy ass calls.

And for dirty hippies, try to start schools that grade with the emojis instead of letters and non-s. My surgeon got a double plus unfrowny and AP bio. Absolutely not. Waldorf nonsense. It's crazy. At their monthly meetings, they take up their clan hoods and I'll be wearing Yamacas and black face with rainbow flag Kravats. Now, see, I would join that religion. black face of rainbow flag Kravats. No, see, I would join that religion. Just think of a potlocked dinners. A major fried chicken on a bagel. The plate would be fast.

That sounds good. That sounds really good. We're getting off track. I really want to sandwich. All right, so now it's 1974 and the crazy, fuckless couple keeps reading about theosophy and starts combining that stuff with selected pieces of the Bible and also some science textbooks they found by Robert Heinlein

and Arthur C. Clark. And putting it all together, they realize that they've been given higher level minds by the ghost Ninja Turtles from Tibet. Right. And they need to fulfill the prophecies of the Bible. Also aliens, something with aliens. It turns out as if he's like, hell, the aliens are telling me, I think I think I need to

probe a young boy. Another young boy is here. With this kind of track record, it has to be kind of blase at this point, doesn't it? Right. Are you probing another young boy? Okay, fine. Just remember to use the gloves this time. I don't need that UTI explanation again.

Jesus Christ. I still feel like way better about every bad relationship I've ever been in or heard about. Right. And I suddenly feel like the origin story of Skating Atheist isn't as original as I thought. Sad. Yes, so based on their research, Apple White and Nettles decide that they're the two witnesses who show up

in the book of Revelation to usher in the apocalypse. Which was a stupid pick because anyone who read the Bible would be like, oh, cool. So breathe some fire that way, which yeah, there's the fire, breathe the juice, fire, breathing juice. Correct. Uh, but Apple White and Nettles rolled with it anyway, which means they definitely spend a good deal of time Trying to rig up a hidden blowtorch in their hoodies so they can blow back

Which is probably why Marshall Apple White looks like Jeff Sessions always just had a cigar explosion Anyway Are they starting the legend based on like home alone tropes? It's ridiculous. Yes, anyway, the groundwork for their cult has been laid and they're just about to start culting the shit out of it. I just want to point out that's the only thing that's gotten laid in this story. Those little boys. Okay.

That's true. Fair enough. But all right, before we get to all that, let's take a quick break for everyone's favorite, unrelated halftime segment, apropos of nothing. All right, so I've been kicking around an episode idea, but it seems like the topic might be a little too small to fill an entire show, but that doesn't mean we can't do a quick short segment right here.

So hello, welcome to Citation Needed Mini. Today's subject is the fact that pugs are horribly unethical. They're wonderful adorable dogs don't get me wrong, but their breeding process of having no snout causes them to have painful, terrifying lives of almost suffocating for like 12 to 15 years before finally drowning in their own mucus. It's incredibly cruel. And if you buy one, you're contributing to the problem. And you're also cruel. Only a horrible, horrible person would buy a pug. Even if you get them a platinum insurance plan, you're still a horrible, horrible, cruel person. That is all. Does anyone have anything to add? You know, I'll just say that everything he's mentioned is 100% accurate.

And I'll add that Tom and I are best friends. Yes, we are. Kind of like, like Noah and he. Absolutely. Indeed. Right? There's nobody else left for this question. There's only been only four people on the show ever since, right? It's nice to have Marissa as the fifth. I've been only four people on the show ever since. Right? You said that was it. It's nice to have Marissa as the fifth. I, yeah.

That's been wonderful. I mean, I'm just saying she nailed Hello and Welcome. Absolutely. The whole right thing that I was easy. I'm glad my Ivy League education is going to something useful. Can you do a pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound.

Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound. Oh, pigeon sound.

And we're back. When we left off, Alien Ghost Ninjas were bringing on the apocalypse by way of the last crusade during a fever dream. So speaking of those magic cups, we had breathing fire and Jeff sessions, unfortunately, not in correlation acquisition to each other. So he. Right.

So the two person cult was finally rolling and having discovered all the connections between brown people religions, white people religions, and green people religions. So pretty excited to tell Christianity all about what they figured out, but strangely enough, it did not go over well with Christianity. So they were forced to take the show on the road and start their own congregation. Okay. Okay. Two full of shit for Christians in America. That's where we're starting.

I just want to emphasize that. They started driving around and explaining how they're actually alien demigods and how they needed a crew to help with their big project. What was the project? It went something like, go fuck yourself. It sounds like they did a lot more work than Hillary didn't Michigan. So I gotta say like having spent some time

in my life in Michigan, this is a message that would be well received in Michigan. Like better received than a woman president. Well, right, right. Yeah, I was in Flint this past summer. You're not wrong, yeah. B-Y-O-B. So eventually they somehow put together a little following of idiots and sold all their

worldly possessions and then used the money they got to buy a bunch of worldly possessions. It's just confusing. It's only they had a tax cut. Anyway, definitely should have stayed for a few more seminary classes about the whole I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. sales pitch work to the fall like, hey, so, uh, okay, all right. This might sound a little

crazy. I got this idea. All right. Are you hearing me out? Hear me out? Okay. It ends with us killing ourselves. Fine. But it starts with not fucking. So, guys, but you know, but I know it was a organ. Um, the difference in becoming a reclusive hobo camper noticed was literally zero. Yeah. Right. Right. No, it fucking reclusive hobo camper noticed was literally zero. Yeah, right, right. No, it fucking reclusive hobo camper is often shortened simply to Oregonian. Yeah. Given their success with pumping their own gas. Yeah.

It's an awesome game, the reclusive hobo camper trail. Yeah. So this, uh, this disappearance they did, it actually drew their first big piece of media attention for, uh, the heavens gave people following the meeting in Oregon. Walter Cronkite reported on the CBS evening news, quote, a score of persons have disappeared. It's a mystery whether they've been taken on a so called trip to eternity or simply been taken, quote, and they caught right before he said, fucking stupid, I hate my fucking stuff. I'm making me do this.

Or before Liam Neeson could memorize his voice and hunt him down. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna go ahead and say this. Like, these more people we shouldn't look very hard to find, right? Like, they got nice anything, it's like, he cares. He cares. He cares. They believe this bullshit going missing

is the best thing that can happen in society. So they spent the next 10 years just bumming around the country begging for money, camping in the woods and stealing hot pies off window sales. I'm so sorry. So pretty much just a hippie cult that wanted to combine all the religions of the world into a nice lazy stew, but also ignore all the parts about social responsibility and

basic hygiene. Well, obviously because you said, hippie. No, listen, a hippie cult would at least get high all the time and pass around some good old fashioned climpedia. It just sounds like, like dirt, like dirty, not fun, but just dirty. This is actually starting to sound a lot like Bernie Sanders campaign. Like I said, like dirty, but not dirty fun. Right.

I dated a girl in Vermont last year and I was there several times. It's giving me sent flashbacks. You don't know how I hear it. So during this time, Apple White and Nettles took on magical nicknames for themselves. They went with bow and peep, what's ordo and tea? What? Apparently, apparently that I'm meeting about it. It was like, hey, uh, what kind of vowel sounds do you like? I know you say first. Okay, same time, same time. Long vowel sounds. Long vowel sounds. Okay. Cool. Great. Which vowel? Oh, E. Oh. Okay. Oh, that's fine. That's fine. We'll make it work.

We'll make it work. I don't need any. Never be deal. And apparently being followers of people named after nursery rhymes and soul-fed signs didn't seem to bother anyone. Yeah. So, sure hope they all don't die of stupidity. So, I'm going to say, I feel super confused.

Doesn't bow peep like lose her sheep like this is the worst shepherd to choose the same person but damn appropriate though if you're gonna pick any one shepherd for this through. Yeah, so the hobo camper plan is going great for the magical alien ninjas and their crew, but then in 1985 their mission changed all of sudden. This was the year that Bonnie Nettles died and also the year that the movie Cocoon was released. Both of those things seemed to be large factors. Apple White became paranoid that the government was trying to kill him and also became convinced that

he really wanted to shower with hot water and take a shit on a toilet and wipe with not a stick. So he was like, all right, fucking new plan. Instead of hippie alien cult, we're going to be a yuppie alien cult with a tech start on the. Also, there's a comment coming in 12 years and we need to get ready for that. So new plan. Yes.

So they slowly transitioned to an indoor cult with plumbing and electricity, but that's about it. The general belief system was still based on transcending the human realm by giving up all attachment to the planet earth. That meant no family, no friends, no sex, no money, no possessions. Okay. So they're just middle school boys with video games. I well, except for dough who held everyone's money and possessions, bought himself a 9,000 square foot mansion in Southern California.

This became their headquarters where they started training for the big something with a comment does. Still hasn't known for a time yet, but it's comment related for sure. Is it so hard to plan for something to happen outside of a human lifetime? I mean, Trump has planned for 2020 for Christ's sake. We're all kids. You like, you couldn't wait for the future because flying We're all kids. You like, you couldn't wait for the future because flying cars and all that great shit. I feel like the only thing I'm eagerly awaiting are the soothing tones of the emergency broad

data. So yeah, this is only a test used to be good news, didn't I remember that? I remember before I miss before. We're exactly one degree from being nostalgic for the AOL dial ups out here. And with your ringtone though, I don't judge your ringtone. So here's the existing belief system for the heavens gate people at this point as far as I can tell. Doe was pretty sure the end times were coming and the world was going to get blown up and his plan was to get off the planet with his crew. This meant getting to the next evolutionary level.

Obviously the godly alien level, which is above the human level. Yeah, right. You get 6,000 XP and you know, right. You got it. It also meant getting past the Luciferians. We're an evil tribe of super advanced aliens. Of course they were. Who spent their time tricking the human kind into doing all different religions that don't

really work because they all don't use the right Magic alien words No stop and the loose pharians had a super nice planet of their own But they got bored with that so they pretty much only focus on Spiting the humans at this point. So you gotta get past the Christ when did what the fuck when do the fucking guys fly volcanoes into 747s or what are the f**k's. I'm right there with you man. This Tom Cruise biography is actually a little weirder than I.

Maybe less weird. I don't know. It's hard. It lays it less. Luciferian aliens requesting fly by top gun. So now I can't help with thinking flying volcanoes into airplanes. That's great visual. All right. So volcanoes don't burn that hot. All right.

You're in the hot sea. The volcano. They're all hot. It's hot. It's hot. It's hot. It's hot. It's hot.

Tom Cruise was in that movie. Okay. So which makes sense. It's in the biographer. Oh, fucking circle. Full circle. All right. So you say you get to that next evolutionary level I was talking about and find your way

into happy alien land according to Doe. Option one, you get on the good guy alien spaceship when they swing by to pick you up. And at some point, Doe figured out that the ship would probably be drafting behind the hillbop comet like a cyclist. What? So that became the big plan. Yeah, all the aliens had to shave off their arm hair to reduce the drag on the dilithium

crystals. The best way to actually get on the ship is to just have one testicle and take steroids. That's it. But the rare thing that works to that's a good plan. So we now know they went with too few tests. I mean, it seems less expensive than getting a bit vaginal plastic, but I'm not working that out anytime soon. So, you know, alien space cult seems like a least less expensive option. Yeah.

Go American healthcare. Fuck yes. Is that a vagina size reduction? Like a rhino plastic? Is a vagina plate? Describe. Describe. I don't know what that is. I'm not going to bring a prescription heat. We'll talk later. We'll talk later. So it's option two to get to the next evolutionary level. You die. But don't worry, it's not going to be suicide. They've been saying since day one, they're against suicide.

It has to be natural death, accidental death, or death from random violence. Those are the three types of death besides suicide. Suicide. Here's Venn diagram. I feel like systematic violence could also get you, but I guess that's why I'm no alien. And how is a random not also accidental? Don't let you just think thinking too much. Random fuck. Moving on to option three. Crazy.

It's crazy in the center of the Venn diagram. It just has a West side of Chicago. Option three, you guys are making jokes. This is a serious cult. Take it fucking seriously. Option three, outside persecution leads to your death, just like in Waco, Texas. Okay. Well, there's your not random non-act dental vial. So I got it right. ATF was standing on a line when they shot those motherfuckers. So, I'm in a bit of it all.

And finally, option four, willful exit from your body in a dignified manner. Suicide is different, shut up. You shut up, you're a benign. And the first three things didn't work out is what we're doing moving on. Wait, okay, which means though, if I'm following you correctly, that they tried

to get persecuted and failed. I so want a record of that, but like as a montage. Now, given given who I'm filling in for here, what song would you use? Because I don't know if I can still do those Eli looking for the dude. Theages. All right, we'll go all star in honor of e-lives. Yeah. Yes. So that's pretty much how the planning went leading up to their big day. The group all got together in the mansion and started getting ready to make option one happen and jump on the flying saucer when the hellbop comet passed closest to earth. And just for the record that happened on March 22nd, 1997, the comet passed by earth

at a distance of only 1.3 astronomical units, which is only about 121 million miles. First step of that hop is a fucking doozy like dick van dyke legs to get over that gap. You know, they were so close like maybe they just shown like a little cleavage sweet in the pot of it. Yeah, but the aliens didn't see the heavens gate people hailing it, I guess, and they just drove right past without stopping. So racist. So that left the top with options two, three or four.

And since the government wasn't actually trying to murder them, it was either murder each other violently or murder each other with dignity. So it's a on the ladder. The dignity one. Most baffled that there isn't just one guy. He's like, you guy, you know what? Why don't you guys go and I'll press the next one. I'll just catch the next one.

I feel like being murdered with dignity, that's my best case scenario. And I think you might be overestimate in your options, Tom. It's gonna be perfectly honest with you. Yeah, they missed the bus and now they're all working out the logistics of a mass suicide together. They decided to go with poison by eating applesauce, laced with feno barbitol and washing it down with vodka.

And honestly, I think I'm more offended by this than anything else they did. You're picking your last meal and you go with fucking baby food. Really? It would think of just like maybe mix it all together and treat it like an avant-garde apple team. Right? Well, it's like, it's like fucking children like they're putting their medicine in apple sauce. Right? They can't even commit suicide. When he's like fucking children, like they're putting their medicine in apple sauce, right? They can't even commit suicide, like fucking adults and swallow a pill. Brush it up for me.

Yeah. Peter, it's better. You got to hold their mouth closed, like they're dogs. Right back. Get us to put in peanut butter and put on the roof of their mouth. They're like, are you fucking trying to get it off of there? Like rubbing their fucking throat like, come on. Swoow it.

Want to go out? Want some applesauce? I was jingling a jar of applesauce. It's fun. I'm like, you know what? I think it was in your applesauce. What is it? You know, he's, you're overthinking it Tom whatever.

So, so over the course of the next three days, they all killed each other in shifts. And they, in shifts, yeah, please. And they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, I'll do the overnight. No, I got the overnight guys, don't worry. Hey, does somebody want to trade shifts with me? I'm in the middle of a movie. All right. I'm gonna take a vacation day.

On that, to a side day. First of all day. I got a little, I got a little, I'm gonna be able to eat all that applesauce. I got a little I'll be able to eat all that apple sauce. I got pink. I can't eat that Yeah, they did shifts and they really did a lot more Planning out and named details of the mass suicide than you guess like the Jim Jones Jones people, they just, you know, drank the cool ate and just died all over the place. But these guys were really weird about it.

They did a bunch of different like organized things. First of all, they all wore identical black shirts and sweatpants. Well, to be fair, what you're walking around in sweatpants, you're pretty much, you're all the way to suicide. You're like nine times of the way. They all wore brand new Nike decades sneakers, the same ones. Glad they all decided to kill themselves on capsule Friday. They also all had patches on their arm that said, Heaven's Gate away team on it, which

is actually one of many Star Trek references that were built into a bunch of their cult stuff, which is possibly related to one of the crew of the suicide cult being Thomas Nichols, the brother of Michelle Nichols, who played Uhura in the original Star Trek show that the hot black team. The home team uniforms were much snazzy. And let's be fair though, if they were real Star Trek fans, they'd have all been wearing red shirts too. Yeah, that's the thing. And what other thing they all did, they each had a $5 bill and also three quarters in all their pockets so that they could tip the alien

Uber drivers and make a few phone calls when they arrive in alien world and also by the way in alien world they have payphones that use American currency. So, I like that they have aliens that are willing to joyride behind a comet and pick up a different species of hitchhiker, but they will not fucking make change for a 20. First of all, they know what payphones are, so they're not aliens from the future. You have to at least admire the specificity. So often in religion things are leapt up to broad interpretation. These guys have answers. The price of salvation, 575 plus tax.

And let's not sure, co-das, their answers were no less insane than any of the other religions answers. Right. That's true. And 575 is the cheapest price I've ever had for a film. Yeah, right. Well, it's 575 Andrew Lifetime. Yeah, exactly.

Still, the cheapest price I've ever had for a film is. Obviously, it's tragic thing when a bunch of people die, but is it really? In this case, it's absolutely not, Tom, it's absolutely not. I'm really happy these people died, but the reaction, the reaction from Dr. Alan Hale is amazing. Oh, it's so much. Yes. The best. He's also super happy.

They died and I love it. He's Alan Hale. He's the guy who discovered the comment. He co-discovered the hellbop comment. Apparently, he got constant phone calls when the news broke about all the fucking idiots killing themselves and it really pissed him off. And eventually, he spoke at a press conference. And he's basically like, uh, good riddance. I was like, um, Then about a year later he had an entire speech at a skeptics conference about how stupid religions and people are and

according to a colleague Dr. Hale actually predicted this whole thing after he discovered the comment. He told his colleague. He's like Yeah, somehow we're going to get some idiots killed themselves over this. I guarantee. I'm going to hear about this comment killed himself. I love that he knew that announcing the discovery of the comment would lead to idiots killing themselves. And he was just like, yeah, whatever, that's one more comment, a lot less idiots

self-tied at the time, we'll discover again. One other quick detail before we wrap it up And this, this actually might be my favorite part of the story. In 1996, a year before they died, the Heavensgate group purchased alien abduction insurance. That is a thing they bought it. Their plan would cover up to 50 members of the cult and pay out a million dollars a person for anyone who got abducted, impregnated, and or killed by aliens. Pay anything to watch that insurance salesman. That's such that day. That must have been amazing. Well, but here's the thing of that. That's a real thing.

The alien abduction in shirts, but it's a gag. It's a fucking joke and it has been forever. So this guy got this fucking call as a joke and they're like, no, we really want it. And he's like, okay. Okay. Yeah. Bargaining with them like a million hub, yeah, a million.

Sure. We give you a million dollars a person. Yep. 70 million. What. We'll give you a million dollars a person. Yep. 70 million. What's the biggest number you know? What's the name of the biggest number you know? I'll fucking double it. So if you had to summarize what you've learned

in one sentence, what would it be? I'm starting an alien abduction insurance company. A-K-A church. It's the right. And are you ready for a quiz from the panel? I am ready. He's got his 575 out and everything. All right, he thought I'm gonna start us off here.

You just did an entire essay on the heaven's gate, called Never Mention the Fact that most of the male members cut their own balls off. What? Okay, judgmental. My question for you is, what? Yes, yes, that's a detail that got eight or nine of them went to Mexico and cut their balls off.

I couldn't find a reasonable place to fit that. So, okay, so, yeah, they could find a reasonable place to fit it either, which is why they got rid of them. Oh my gosh. What was the doctor's name? I have some friends. That's just a fuck. All right, so my obvious question based on that is, are you feeling okay, buddy?

Is it A, fine and U, is it B? It kind of burns when I pee and it comes out sludgy. Is it C, I'm not your buddy guy or D. This episode could have been 14 hours long and I would still have to leave out shit that is at least that insane. That's E-A-B-N-D. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Yep. Glad to know I'm your buddy guy. Yeah, it's sludgy. I don't know if that's exact the right answer. That's right. It makes it like a little poof of dust. It's like,

it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like,

it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like,

it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's We have everyone's fine. It's the A's that are not story. All right, so when is suicide the best solution for what ails? Oh, Jesus Christ. It's going some time. Right? So, A, when no one reads your blog, even though it's really interesting and hard felt, it's reflective of the tourist pieces of yourself. No.

No. What can we stop at A? Cause A's the right pieces of yourself. Can we stop it? Because it's the right answer, actually. We're no one will give you the creative control to pursue your lifelong dreams. Okay, it's me. See when they've taken everything from you, but your Velcro sneakers. When even your best friend has ashamed to publicly admit that they love you. That's a lousy.

That definitely can't be D. I think it's E when if you learned to tap dance, you would have starred in Book of Mormon, but you didn't. You didn't. It's E. Fuck. Oh, so, Riz, how would you feel about doing this full time? We might be one short next week.

I will be happy to join you. And here's my pitch question. If instead of suicide, they'd all pull together their 575 to tell their story. What would have been their marketing pitch? A, the Loch Ness Monster didn't account for inflation. Oh, that's such a sad book. See, still somehow meeting a better approval response than King of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Or D. The Luciferian aliens won't invest their money here until we lower inner stellar corporate tax rate from 35 to 20. It is definitely, definitely D tax credit. We're going to get those aliens in. We're not getting enough aliens in absolutely. Oh, we're trying to get the aliens out. That was so confused right now.

We're going to build it all without our space. No, it's a shade. It's a shade thing. Green is okay. White does okay? Everything on that side of scale, the other rest of the shit holes. Green lives matter. Green history month. All right. Last question. Why did the heavens gate cult choose this particular band of shoe? Everyone loves a pair of jumpers. Yes. B. They knew the coach was going to make them run suicide. Oh, God.

See, they were non-violence of the Nike pump shotgun was right out. Or D, they were laced with cyanide. Guys, laced. Terrible. Laced. So excited, hilarious guys. I just want to point that out. It is. I just want to point that out.

It is all of the above suicide puns are fantastic. Yes. I got to say it's, I got to disagree. It's actually B, the coach knew that they were going to be the same. It's the way. Well, oiled me. They saw it as part of the show. I saw close.

Yeah, DB's, whatever. One of those is well, Diana, right, these puns are killing me. Oh, any memories of junior high basketball weeks right there. Me too. I think it's safe to say that the winner this week and for my guest episode is Cecil.

So congratulations, I think. Yeah. It is because I think. Yeah. No, it is because I get to pick somebody and I'm going to pick Noah to write next week's essay. All right. Okay. But as my first official act as next week's essay, I want to thank Riss for hanging out with us tonight and remind everybody that they can hear more from her by checking out the inciting incident podcast, which I'll have linked on the show notes for this episode along with a bunch of the other shit that she does.

Awesome. Thank you so much. And I'm close to the full ticket for my own's, having gate. All I need to do is work my way into a tall Tyler skit and now complete the cycle of being on all the puzzle and a fun story show. So working on my impression for that one, I also host the sister getting out of hand with Ari Stillman because sometimes I actually like being funny. And we have skits like yours, only slightly less gay. My newest book, Passing Cars, the Internal Monologue of a NERL Divergent Trans Girl, and all my other books are available on Amazon and RISMACOLE.com. So now I'll toss it over to Sarah for last week's Twitter answer and this week's Twitter question.

Thanks, Riz. Last week's question was, who is Trump's favorite magician and why? And the best answer came from Lacey McConnell on Twitter. Trump's favorite magician would have to be himself. He made all of our respect in the world disappear. Maga, magicians against government aid. This week's question is, I don't want to say that.

Why not? It's mean. Isn't Eli your best friend any? Don't start, don't start with that. Just please read it. But this is shitty. And I like Eli. Nobody likes Eli.

He will just put up with him because he threatened to kill himself. That's mean too. Will you fucking just read it? Fine. Please note that I did not write this. He will just put up with him because he threatened us to kill himself. That's mean too. Will you fucking just read it fine? Please note that I did not write this. No question this week. Everyone just tweet that pugs are unethical at Eli Bosnick. I had nothing to do with this Eli.

You're complicit. Shut up. All right. Well, for Cecil Tom Noah and Heath, I'm Marissa, thanking you for hanging out with us today. We'll be back next week, or at least they will. I'll be, I think you got hired. Yeah.

We had a death. I think we had a death. It depends on whether Eli listens to this one and how many people tweet him, but yeah, no question. There may be an opening as all I'm saying. You got that? If there is I'll be happy to come back and gay this up a little bit. So yeah I'll be listening while I sort mail and I then know be an expert on something

else. So if you'd like to have a keep the show going and tweet Rismacool if you want her to be on all the time, you know? You can make a per episode donation at patreon.com slash citation pod or leave a five star review anywhere you can. And if you'd like to get in touch with the guys, check out past episodes, connect with them on social media or check the show notes. Be sure to check out citation pod.com.

Also, I'd do a few things too, so you know, help it grow up. Hashtag RISPER Citation Needed. That's it. That's it.