Citation Needed - James Damore and the Google Memo

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Hello and welcome the citation eat it, the podcast where we choose a subject, free to single article about on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the internet, and that's how it works now. I'm Noah and I'm going to be the lead link in this week's Sausage Fest, but joining me this week are the salami, kibasa, Bratwerson, and Dewy of the podcast, Cecil, Eli, Tom, and Heath. We are the worst, absolutely. I've always wanted to keel myself.

Oh, God. And I am not saying which one of the best. the brats is the worst on air. Okay. Brats, I don't have feelings about it. I'm in gumbo. Oh, yeah, you're great. My favorite.

And speaking of links, we're going to have one at the end of the show where you can donate money to us. And with that out of the way, tell us, Eli, what person, place, thing, concept phenomenon, or event? Are we going to be talking about today? We'll be talking about James Damore. All right. So you've found yet another way to drag us through the grimyest and most unwashed corners

of the internet. Are you ready to remind us why our misanthropy is so justified? Oh, I'm just asking questions. All right. So who is James DeMore? He's an Edge Lord Tech, bro, who C-C-Ald Google about how women have lady brains who can't think is good because he had to go to a diversity workshop. Okay, so I only vaguely remembered this guy from 2017, so I googled him, and I actually screamed when I saw him. He's scary.

he looks like a men's rights Coupa Troopa. Like it's a great metaphor. All right. So he's got this weird lip thing going. Listener, I want you to picture a set of lips where at the end of the adventure,

we're going to realize that those lips are where the key went the whole time, right? That he was the treasure. Yeah, he was the treasure. So look, I started this essay with the intention of writing out a bit of James's story

and then I figured the meat of our episode would be us just make it fun of his stupid, obviously wrong memo, but then I figured I'd chuck in a little, where is he now post script onto the end? And it was in search of that postcript that I found something far better than a simple retelling of James's tale. An article published in March of last year in Barry Weiss's post-New York Times prehead of CBS gig, The Free Press, entitled, What Happened to Silicon Valley's most infamous thought criminal by Joanna Birkman? And

When a website that sports headlines like the law start of taking the piss with Richard Dawkins and Bridget Bardot is dead, why are we scolding her steps up to the plane to tell this story, all I can do is step aside and let them tell it in a way that's way funnier than I ever could have dreamed of. So, with thanks to Joanna Bergman, let's begin. Luxembourg City, Luxembourg. Yeah, that's all of Luxembourg. You can just say Luxembourg. We know what city it is.

It's a bitterly cold day in the low country of Luxembourg. But the party elves of the hinterland were cozy in their alphots. They sang a merry wintertime. What the fuck kind of article is this? I'm sorry, but it's bitterly cold in the high country of Luxembourg. It's all one fucking, it's all the same weather. So when James Damor opens the door to a 17th century cathedral, offering it up as a kind of refuge, I fall in line behind his

gangly footsteps. I'm not sure footsteps can gangle. I don't think that's how that works at all. And follow him inside. I like non-commercial spaces. He whispers softly.

I say out loud. I said, eh, out loud. Perfect. I throw up into my purse. He whispered softly. I immediately leave. End of article. He whispers softly as we,

shuffle through the soaring Notre Dame de Luxembourg. The cathedral's dark, lit mostly by stained glass windows and dozens of candles at the altar. He likes walking through here, he tells me, to appreciate the beauty, the stillness, and a project meant to serve a higher purpose. But it's also a suitably analog setting for a man who, ever since he became persona non-grada in Silicon Valley back in 2017, has been living like a living. The tech industry will not stand for douchey white guys. It's really hard, you guys.

You should try podcasting, bud. Tamor has blocked digital ad networks from his personal information to serve him customized ads. Just like the fucking Luddites did, yeah. He switched his Android phones colors to grayscale so that it will not visually appeal to him. He uses neither its ringer, nor vibrational. to alert him to incoming calls. Only his wife's calls can break through.

And perhaps more remarkably, he told me he doesn't even read the news. If something is important, he says, then other people will tell me. You're stupid. That was important for me to tell you. Okay, honey, but if you keep calling me to tell me that over and over, I'm taking your number off like you're not disturbed.

Exception. As a result, he is often unaware of the existence of celebrities. Timothy Chalemay, never heard of him. Chapel Rhone? Nope, not her either. But what surprises me most is that DeMore has never heard of Dylan Mulvaney and the controversy over the trans influencers involvement with Bud Light. Me not knowing is never notable to me, he says. I'm used to my stupid at me.

My wife calls to remind me of it all the time. He has had very good reasons to log. golf. Well, if you don't know who Dylan is, you definitely know the person who got famous for protesting Bud Light and Dylan. Their name is Kid Rock. I don't know. Their name is Kid Rock. Kid Rock got mad enough at a case of Bud Light that he murdered it with an AR-15 and made of us. You don't get to have guns if you do, if you are crazy enough to do to murder Bud Light, nope, no guns for you. He also then got caught drinking Bud Light like a couple of months later, and he was like, they've suffered enough. I just really like their loggard.

Can I say, though, what an amazing counterpoint it would be anytime someone pointed out Kid Rock's impocry for him to just go, I'm Kid Rock. In August of 2017, DeMore became one of the first high-profile victims of cancel culture. after he wrote the infamous Google memo, officially titled Google's ideological echo chamber. In it, he argued it wasn't merely bias, which resulted in women being so underrepresented in tech, but that men and women's biological differences might play a role as well. Google's programs that sought to achieve male, female parody in tech jobs

were actually discriminating against men because, quote, nearly every difference between men and women is interpreted as a form of women's oppression. I bet this guy has a deep history and gender studies. I'm not to make all these assumptions. Perhaps worst of all, he argued, was that the company was so politically biased in favor of DEI that it was virtually impossible to openly discuss these issues. The lack of discussion fosters the most extreme and authoritarian elements of this ideology, he wrote. Oh, here it is. Okay. Episode

109 of the Joe Rogan experienced that track. All shitty, untalented dudes need a safe space, so there's yours, buddy. Every time I try to say some hateful shit, I get called hateful. Yeah, probably everyone else is

wrong. I'll write it down. That'll help. The fact that DeMore was doing an amazing impression of a men's rights cupa trooper. I got to say, like, you and you both nailed it. You just positioned the lips like his, and it's Sort of it does work for you. Yeah. The fact that DeMore was fired by Google once his memo went public seemed to bolster the latter part of his argument. Not that it was interpreted that way at the time. During a period when conservative speakers were being protested on college campuses and drummed out of corporations, DeMore's firing was received as something more like an exorcism in Silicon Valley. That's not how Google sees it. We could not have been clearer at the time discussing and debating our programs. programs has always been allowed. Google spokesperson, Courtney Mandici told the free press. However,

the memo went further questioning coworkers' abilities and traits, which was not okay then and isn't now, end quote. So how is it that everybody complaining about how they don't need DEI training does so in a way that maximally demonstrates how badly they need DEI? That's funny, huh? The DeMore memo set off a national debate about gender equity and technology, with people firmly divided on the issues, though less so about DeMore himself. About him, they were much more clearer. I'm a professional reporter. It became impossible to find a job, he tells me, literally, I went to hundreds of places. And if they would hire me, they would only offer me 80% of what other men made. He would apply to day.

different tech employment platforms like triple-byte, pass the coding tests at the highest level, and then, once he had to reveal his personal information, either be ghosted or be told the company could not possibly work with them, he said, I'm guessing it's triple-byte and not trip-the-in-french bite. Trible-bytes? He said, quote, that was very frustrating, the realization that, hey, I could do 100 interviews, and I could study as much. as I want for the coding aspects and be top-notch there, but still have no control, end quote.

At Triple Beat, the company was even threatened with customer boycotts and employee walkouts just for having him on their platform. While trying to find another position as software engineer, or really any kind of tech job at all, DeMore worked as a camp counselor,

board game designer, professional player of Magic the Gathering card game, and designer and seller of t-shirts and chotchkees on Red Bubble. Well, yeah, you know somebody's getting serious about the job search when they try professional magic the gallery. I didn't realize that was an option. I am looking at resumes, right? One product he sold was a $23.83 mouse pad imprinted with what he described in the ad copy as a sharp parody of what those pretentious lawn signs are saying.

Hold on to your sides. In this house, we believe repeating the right platitudes fervently enough makes us good people. Submit to the mob, thinking is dangerous. Conformity is everything. Hey, hey, podcast listener, I know that we tend to like editorialize. This line is in the article. I'm about to read a quote. Are you ready? He says he didn't sell too many.

okay I'm loving the journey they accidentally gave us there he clearly failed at professional MTG you know even though he had a combo that would break the meta game for sure

and then he just like didn't get dealt the combo enough and lost a bunch of tournaments and a bunch of money and he was like Etsy do people need politically trenchant mouse pads on Etsy?

Probably yes podcast listeners are sorry it's me I went to his red bubble, and while it's mostly AI slot mouse pants, he does have a bumper sticker and a t-shirt that say, the future is phallic. So I'm guessing that one did just as badly. There is one gay nightclub that loves them, though, and they're biggest fans. He has also some poor Irish lady misspelled Gaelic, now feeling very confused. Oh, that's just what she told you when you walked in, Tom. She knew what she was left. Back to the article, sorry.

In May of 2018, DeMore got a brief reprieve from exile when he landed a job as a software engineer at a government tech startup. It was run by a female CEO. What? But the CEO was a libertarian, says DeMore, noting that people's response to his memo

often had more to do with their political ideology than their gender. When you look at people's reactions, positive or negative, it's generally broken down by political orientation, he says. A mental law. lot of women who are like, yeah, of course. And then a lot of men who are like, no, you're horrible.

Obviously, there's more men that are of those political orientations than women, but the defining factor was still politics. The startup eventually moved from Silicon Valley to Austin, Texas, where taxes are lower. And so DeMore moved too. He remained in Austin, even after he left the company, because he fell in love with a Mexican-American fashion designer who lived there. She was unaware of the whole memo scandal until he informed her. She looked me up and thought I'd be like a big tech bro based on the articles. What she found instead, he says, was someone who was sincere, maybe too sincere sometimes. Yeah. I just call him like I see him as bad if all your takes are bad. When you're calling ball strikes and slur words, like that sounds like that's not going to go on. Also,

if your take away from, I was so sexist that I was too toxic for the. the tech industry is, well, maybe I'm just being too honest. They should just name the blacklist after you. Yeah. Demoratorium. Oh, that was good. Nice. The couple married two years ago.

Yeah. Don't give it to him. He wants it too hard. He wants it so hard. Honestly, if you hadn't offered it, it wouldn't have hurt as much. I wouldn't have thought about it. In May of last year, the expect. Teasel cheers for holding it.

it. In May of last year, then expecting their first child, they abandoned the U.S. for this tiny expat-saturated sliver of northwestern Europe so that D'More could take a job as a senior software engineer at a European tech company. He will not say which one out of fear that making his presence known there will cause controversy and could even result in his ousting. That said, some of his colleagues already do know about his past, he says, and nobody really cares. And the people that care don't know. Hopefully. Hey, Luxembourg listeners, um, eyes out for a cupa trooper and a fleece vest. Yeah. I feel like the fucking Luxembourg tech industry is small enough for us to root it out, right? Right. I feel like we can do some work here. During his long period away from the public sphere,

tomorrow has become what can fairly be described as a digital hermit when we met on a Sunday last month, DeMore hadn't been on X since September of 2023 when he posted about a poker game he had created. But on February 21st, a few days after we met, he posted about the so-called vibe shift in America. It was a simple line, Time vindicates the truth. Looking at the current state of our culture and our politics,

it's easy to understand his conclusion. Hey, maybe make a mouse pad that says might makes right next time. Oh, there you know. One of us, all of you. click. Jesus Christ. Within his first days in office, President Trump signed executive orders terminating DEI programs within the federal government. Major companies, some of the biggest on Wall Street and in Silicon Valley, have followed his leave. In New York, California, removing references to diversity, equity, and inclusion from their annual filings, and ceasing

to use what many have called aspirational goals when it comes to diversity among their employees or suppliers. Trump has also banned transgender women and girls from competing in female sports, leading to a broader rejection of the myth that biology doesn't matter when it comes to physical abilities. Other ideas that were made radioactive over the past decade, that people born male or female are fundamentally different from each other, say, or that unfairness in our society is not exclusively due to systematic discrimination, or that DEI could itself result in discrimination? Who are you arguing with? Have not only become more commonplace, but have dovetailed with many of the points

to Moore made in the memo that got him fired. And while many of the people who once participated in making those truisms taboo have now shifted their alliances. Okay, this isn't complicated. Affirmative action has discrimination and centuries of racism has discrimination. One of those is worse. Yep. The first thing tries to correct a bit of the second thing. Seems like that. like a net positive. Like, okay, imagine you have a big pile of shit in the middle of your house. If you demand a neutral policy on shit and ban affirmative action to remove any shit, you just have a pile of shit in your house now forever. Also, anything that keeps James DeMore

out of your office, net positive too, I guess. There you go. Yeah, that too. Yeah, the people who don't want their kids to know about critical race theory are the people making the arguments most easily refuted by critical race theory. It's so good that it works out like that so often. Take Google CEO Sundar Pachai. In August of 2017, Pachai wrote to all Google employees about DeMore's memo, quote, and I want to point out that the author of this article totally would do a voice. I'm not going to do a voice, but I just want to be clear, they would do a voice.

We strongly support the right of Googlers to express themselves, and much of what was in that memo is fair to debate, regardless of whether a vast majority of Googlers disagree with it. However, portions of DeMore's memo violate our code of conduct and cross the line by advancing harmful gender stereotypes. The memo has clearly impacted our coworkers, some of whom are hurting and feel judge based on their gender. Our coworkers shouldn't have to worry that each time they open their mouths to speak in a meeting, they have to prove that they are not like the memo states being agreeable rather than assertive, showing a lower stress tolerance or being

neurotic, end quote. But Pachai left out many of the disclaimers in DeMore's memo, including these. I'm not saying that all men differ from all women in the following ways, or that these differences are just. I'm simply stating that the distribution of preferences and abilities of men and women differ, in part, due to biological causes. Oh, you see, guys, if I put in a qualifier before I tell you why 50% of all people are less than the other 50%

then I'm just asking questions. Right. Yeah. So weird. He also didn't stress that James did his own research, right? He added, many of these differences are small and there's significant overlap between men and women, so you can't

say anything about an individual given these population-level distributions. Google fired DeMore one month after he first posted his memo in an online company forum. And D'Amor sued in 2018, alleging workplace discrimination.

The parties... Workplace discrimination. Am I right? Exactly. The parties settled in 2020 for an undisclosed sum. Hi, listener, it's me again. So weird, I guess the folks at the free press were a little busy

and forgot to report this part. So the day before James was fired, he filed a complaint of coercion with the National Labor Relations Board, which is a federal agency that's supposed to enforce labor laws. It's illegal to fire someone for filing a complaint with the NLRB. So it's a thing that assholes do all the time when they know they're about to get fired.

He eventually withdrew that complaint, but not before a memo from the NLRB was released saying that his complaint was bullshit and he was a liar. Yeah, the world is too woke. Everyone needs to toughen up. You fired me and it hurt my feelings. I'm suing. Yeah. Anyway, women are neurotic. Also, just a couple of quick details on that law. suit. He and another different bigot at Google actually filed a class lawsuit accusing Google of various forms of discrimination against conservatives, white people, and men. They withdrew that

suit and opted for arbitration instead. And to be clear, that sum could have been zero dollars. And based on the fact that James immediately started looking for a job again, I'm guessing that it's closer to that number than not. Well, it could have been that he got a load of money and he just has an expensive designer quote mouse pad habit. You don't know. Okay, it seems like the elegant solution of the free market economy was firing James. And you'd think a proud libertarian wouldn't narc to the NLRB like a communist little baby. But to make it even better, the official statement from the NLRB was you're a communist little baby. Maybe get an Etsy store for your mouth pads. It's amazing. Sorry, the article again. So according to Google, when employees, no matter their politics, violate its code of conduct, the company takes action. Sighting is a recent example, Google's dismissal of dozens of employees who protested the company's business ties to Israel in April of last year. So their messages like, look, we can't be a bunch of lefties and support a genocide, can we? Come on. Exactly. When I asked whether the company would have treated to more differently if it could go back in time, a spokesperson told me, we stand by.

our decision. This January, Pachai stood on the dais at Trump's inauguration beside Elon Musk, with Google donating $1 million to the celebrations. Soon after, the company announced it would no longer push hiring goals for underrepresented groups and would be reconsidering DEI policies. I don't think he's necessarily a true believer in either system, Dmore says of Pichai. I think he blows with the wind, but that's sort of your job as CEO, right? To take take on the interests of the company rather than your own personal vision? Yes, that is what a CEO does. And firing you was in the interest of the company.

I could do your job with vibe coding at this point. And like, I would do way less company-wide bigot memos. And like so if you're probably a little better. Not a zero number, but it's clear. Yeah, exactly. Google Shift is only the tip of the iceberg. The move rightward is happening across Silicon Valley. Also at the inauguration, where a Sergei.

Brin, Tim Cook, Sam Altman, Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg. That pretty much matches my RA Starklist, too. Just pencil and Peter Thiel, man. We're good. Yeah, I'm not sure when the fire sale on government policy went up, all the billioners got in line makes the point you think it makes. Ten days earlier, Mena announced that it was ending its DEI programs and not just with regard to hiring employees, but also choosing suppliers.

The company also donated $1 million to the inauguration. So did Amazon. And when Amazon released its 2024 annual report last month, less than three weeks after the inaugural, the words inclusion and diversity, which had appeared in 2023 report within the section entitled Human Capital, were in a long ago. Hey, Joanna, relax. All of which is to say, the time may be ripe for the vindication of James DeMille. Fuck you.

Finally, all these brown shirts I ordered are going to come in hand. All right, but if the charges he's sexist, sexism winning doesn't change that. But DeMor himself is unconvinced. I'm not sure what vindication feels like, he tells me flatly. We are now sitting in the basement of the adorable Café Borra on the rue de force and the French song,

Baroli, Barone, translation. Words. Words. which is a duet that Damora loves is playing on the sound system he's saying oh you're so beautiful she's dismissing him

it's just words DeMori translates At this point I have consumed cheese cream What is happening? Let me do this straight I gotta do this justice

Jamana I'm so sorry at this point I've consumed A cheese crepe Several diet coax and a speculous cookie

that he told me It's a different kind of cookie To him That he told me Tastes better than it lobes He was right Meanwhile the ascetic DeMore has indulged

In nothing more than tap water Hey fuck you The only thing being indulged right now Is your fluffing of the word power No kidding right Well also you're fluffing of Damoire Yeah that's too All right too

She ordered A full ass cream multiple beverages and dessert while he stared longingly out the window. I'll be fine with just water. My mouse pads don't sell. So, do you think it's like proof that you were right at Mark Zuckerberg? I was going through a divorce? Sorry, my mouth is falling.

Do you know if they do it double double here? If I do two, two as a gesture, will they bring me two grapes on top of two grapes? On top of two crates In attempting to illustrate This is why I prefer non-commercial spaces In attempting to illustrate How the Old Order has been upended I make reference to Musk's recent White House press conference

In which he spoke at length Of what he was going to do Of what he was doing to slash alleged government waste and fraud While his young son X was standing behind him And at one point, sitting atop his shoulders, but DeMore didn't even know that Musk had held such a press conference.

I mean, I knew he was part of a campaign, he says. Almost offensive. Yeah, Nogh went great and James is vindicated, solid. Then he turns philosophical. I think it's always been rich people that have influenced elections and

have been intimate with the government. I think there probably have been some social norms around not flaunting that that Trump doesn't care about anymore? Also news to DeMore, his own lawyer Hermit Dylan, who sued Google on his behalf, is moving

up in the power structure as well. Dylan was nominated to a post in the Trump administration and the Senate Judiciary Committee just advanced her nomination to a full Senate vote, which would take place later this month. Her proposed new title,

Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights. Yeah, yeah. That passed, by the way. That's her job now. And apparently that job title, Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights, means you're supposed to prosecute anyone who investigated the January 6th insurrection.

Like, do that civil rightsily. But she didn't do that fast enough, and she got online attacks from a bunch of, you know, face-eating leopards that she aligned with by taking a job in the Trump administration. And then she angrily posted, You are hoes on Twitter.

What? actor. And I mean, what? Yeah, spelled like the gardening tool. Hose. Oh, H-O-E-S. That's James DeMore's attorney. Vindication, yes, absolutely now, God. I knew that she was involved in politics and well-regarded incompetence, says DeMore, leaving out that Dylan was involved in legal efforts to overturn the 2020 election. So I'm not surprised on that front. All right. Well, now that I know how low the bars for both philosophical and competent have become. I need to rethink some careers I previously rejected. So we're going to take a quick break for a little apropos of nothing.

Professors! Professors, I've got terrible news. What is it, Kyle? You know, we're busy in here studying feminism and black stuff. Feminism and black stuff, yes, of course, but I'm afraid another white guy with absolutely no training in our field of study figured out it was totally fake. Damn. Not again.

I'm afraid he just wasn't afraid to ask questions. He watched videos on YouTube and it's all right there. Damn. How these white guys on YouTube keep figuring out our stuff is fake when literally no expert anywhere ever has? I know. I mean, we are faking every paper and study we have ever done. And we indoctrinate 100% of the people who check our work so that they never speak out. And then this white guy comes along and he says,

that actually racism and sexism are just stuff we made up so we can put chicks in Marvel movies. That is all accurate and it's infuriating. How do they keep doing it? Oh, I can tell you that. How, man, how? It's because they're brave. Brave? Brave? Yes. Yes, these white men, they're the only ones brave enough to say, hey, I know I know absolutely nothing about the subject, but it feels like that's not true. So I'm going to take it down from the inside. and they do with their bravery and their YouTube. And YouTube, of course.

All right, well, I guess we'll just have to cancel him by reporting on the things he says and does. Says and does, exactly. Yes, it's an underhanded trick that only people as evil as us could use, but it's a necessary evil if we want to put ladies in Marvel movies. And we do.

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Given his equaniminant in unity, it is striking to think back on what happened to the now 35-year-old. DeMore's banishment from Silicon Valley began, he says, with a seemingly simple request. give us feedback. It was 2017. Trump had just been elected to his first term as president, and the women's resistance, which would crystallize into the Me Too movement, was arguably the strongest political force on the left in those first months after the election. At just 28 years old, DeMore had recently been promoted to his $500,000 a year job as a senior software engineer at Google when he spent the day at the firm's diversity and inclusion summit. That's where, as he recalls that members of Google's leadership team

discussed how in order to boost diversity in their ranks, the company was lowering the minimum coding test scores and giving preferential hiring to women, as well as to men who were neither white nor Asian. Absolutely not a Google sponsor. Tells me when I share DeMore's description in the summit. We didn't have a policy about all of Asia, for example.

We've never given preferential treatment in our hiring process. We've always hired the best person for the job. Hey, I think Google is lying. I don't think they hired the best people. They hired Blake LeMoyne, for example. He said their chatbot was literally sentient in 2022. Now, okay, now he might be right, But I feel like he got lucky.

In 2022, he was running. They also, they hired this asshole. The best people. It's true. But according to DeMore, Google's public stance at the time was that they were, quote, trying to make the company more welcoming and then doing their best to recruit women and underrepresented minorities, end quote. They just weren't publicly detailing how. To him, the approach, he says, Google executives described at the summit seemed problematic.

They were elevating political correctness over honest discussion and diversity over merit. That's wrong, says a Google spokesperson. We had public aspirational goals and published an annual report with programs for everyone to discuss and debate, end quote. But one example of this reverse discrimination, says DeMore, is the program the company had to help you overcome imposter syndrome, which is pretty common at Google. and which affects everyone, he says, not just minorities, but white men like him, too. As someone who didn't have a traditional computer science background, DeMore says, I had imposter syndrome. Not so much that I didn't decide to overturn the consensus of a whole field of academic study

without so much as reading a fucking book about it, but I did have it. I had it's bad. It's really bad. But no, these programs were only for women, so it felt like they were losing a lot of lot of potential career development within their employees. De Moor had been working at Google for three and a half years by this point and was, at least on the surface, a typical Google software engineer in that he had both dazzling intellectual gifts. Relax. Also some social deficiencies. For example, he could play four chess games simultaneously while blindfolded, something he's been able to do since about age 12.

I can visualize things. It's mostly edgy mouse pad designs, but other things too. I'm a very stable genius. Also, everyone can play chess blindfolded. I could play a thousand games blindfolded. I just did. I'm doing it right now. You have to name a wind condition there.

Yeah, right, right. Move the horse. To the ride. He has a natural ability for understanding large systems and figuring out the best way to make changes to them while simultaneously preserving their overall integrity, a skill well suited to managing computer networks and writing code. Personally, he was somewhat unsavvy and valued speaking the truth over how another person might feel about it. Okay, that is literally just a different way of saying he was an asshole. Right? Like, that's what to term asshole means.

A lot of people have Asperger's who can do this kind of work, Tumor explained. It's definitely overrepresented within tech. Look at most of the top founders like Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Sergey Brin, Sam Altman, Larry Page, even Bill Gates, he speculates. Not all of them openly admit it, but some have, like Elon Musk. It's at least clear from someone that knows the science that, yes, they're on the spectrum, end quote. At this, D'Amour ever so subtly sucks his sleeve.

Sam Altman has denied having Asperger's. Okay. Okay. As a fellow spectry with James, I do get it. Sleeves are good. Sleeves are delicious. Identity politics are bad unless it's my identity. I will outperformatively stim for your article.

Also, nobody calls it Asperger's anymore. We got rid of that. But what made DeMoran outlier at Google was the fact that he had arrived at its Mountain View, California headquarters, not as a computer science graduate, but rather a dropout from a Harvard PhD program in systems biology, where he earned his master's studying the interconnections between evolutionary biology and game theory. You could see different individuals of a species playing different strategies within a game and how they perform affects the evolution of a species. says. Referencing a paper, he co-authored on the topic, you could apply it to any species, but he notes, it's easiest with bacteria.

During the spring of his second year in grad school, he signed up for a Google Code Jam, an international programming competition, and performed so well that the company recruited him for a summer internship. That internship ultimately led to an

offer of full-time employment, for DeMore, who had gone to the University of Illinois Urbana Champagne for his undergraduate degree and grown up in Chicago, not the fancy northern suburbs of John Hughes fame, but rather in the cities, southwestern

suburbs with cornfields in his backyard that were slowly being replaced by sprawl. The job was a ticket into the American tech elite. Fucking small town America, Chicago. Fuck you. Orlin Park.

What the fuck? What the fuck out of here? He came from nothing. He sold nothing. Fucking swollen head baby tops walking a school past his house. I am in squalor.

Which goes a long way towards explaining why DeMore believed it was a sincere invitation when the Google DEI summit organizers asked participants for their feedback.

Inspired, DeMore decided to draft a critique of the company's hiring policies in its corporate culture. Like the academic he had once been, he spent the

next couple of weeks when he wasn't busy coding, doing research and writing his paper, the 10-page foot-noted Google's ideological echo chamber, how biased clouds are thinking about diversity and inclusion, was the result. Okay, the invitation

to give feedback is such a good trap if they meant to do this on purpose, to just, like, root out at the assholes who might write a 10-page footnoted paper with that title. Although, he did give the document a title in the Google Digital shorthand. go slash PC considered harmful,

Go being the beginning of many personalized URLs at Google, and the statement that an item or topic is considered harmful being a common term in computer science discourse. I value diversity and inclusion. DeMore states in his memo.

I'm not denying that sexism exists and don't endorse using stereotypes. Despite what my words and actions might lead you to believe. My next word is however. Yep. Thankfully, open and honest discussion with those who disagree can highlight our blind spots and help us grow,

which is why I wrote this document. This document that contains stereotypes. Yes. But listen, I have no doubt that some of the HR meetings were stupid. A lot of HR meetings are stupid. And some of the woke people were probably obnoxious to him. But that doesn't make them wrong. And a spectry should understand that better than anyone.

What's funny is that he's accidentally right that the inability to see in one's own blind spots is why he wrote this document. It is, yes, sure's a fun. It's fun. He continues, Google's left bias has created a politically correct monoculture that maintains its hold by shaming dissenters into silence. The company's notion that all differences in outcomes are due to differential treatment is an extreme stance, while creating numerically equal representation. requires an authoritarian element and is discriminatory. That rating is so dry, Ben Shapiro just came. But it was the section entitled... It's like a party popper. That's what that was, yeah.

But it was the section entitled possible non-biased causes of gender gap in tech that really set off alarm bells. In it, he argued that the biological differences between men and women aren't just socially constructed because among other things, they are universal across human cultures. Women, on average, have more neuroticism, openness directed towards feelings and aesthetic rather than ideas, and also higher agreeableness. This agreeableness was the real reason women were generally having a harder time negotiating salary, asking for raises, speaking up and leading.

And quote, women actually negotiate salaries a bit more than men on average. We know that. That's like a stat that we know now. You can't even get your stereotypes right. Like how am I, this is garbage in, garbage out. How am I trusting you to be a high-level coder? Right. A man, to be hoisted on your own partard by a bunch of angry, agreeable women.

D' Moore submitted his memo to Google's HR using the feedback form, provided the Diversity Summit and also sent it to his colleagues, posting it in an internal Google discussion group called Coffee Beans on July 3rd, 2017. Okay, podcast listener, can I just pop in for a second, say, I've had to do these fucking trainings every single year for 10 years,

11 years now. They at the end go like, if anyone has anything, we'd love to hear from you. The idea that he submitted a 10-page footnoted paper while Susan was fucking cracking open the entomence is truly the most

insane rhetorically at the end. He revised his memo many times in response to feedback, and then one month later on August 2nd, at the suggestion of a fellow Googler, he posted his revised memo to an internal corporate message board named of all things skeptics at Google.com. Right, which completely disarms his whole, like, I was just providing the feedback they asked for defense.

I think they just hit delete when my response came through. I don't think they... The memo went viral at Google. Then, after someone leaked it to the tech website, Kizmodo, it rocketed across the country and the world. You are a terrible person, read the subject heading of an email sent to D'More by a colleague, an engineer. You're a misogynist and a terrible human. I will keep pounding you until one of us is fired. Fuck you.

Hey, can I just say big shout out to him? Yeah, that's great. Another Google colleagues post on the company's internal social media platform seemed to prove that D' Moore's description of Google as an ideological echo chamber was spot on. If Google management cares enough about diversity and inclusion, they should, and I urge them to, send a clear message by not only terminating Mr. D'Amour, but by severely disciplining or terminating those who have expressed support. This will send a message that we have zero tolerance for intolerance.

Yeah, the fucking racism is a type of diversity to defense. So, very clever. D'more forwarded some of his hate mail to Google HR. which told him that instead of coming into the office that Monday, he should work from home. But that Monday, August 7th, DeMore, was fired by Google for perpetuating gender stereotypes, according to his lawsuit against the company.

That week, in the kind of split-screen move that characterized the memo's bifurcated reception across the country, New York Times' op-ed columnist David Brooks published his dissent. Sundar Pachai should resign as Google CEO. In Fortune, Susan Wyhockey, the CEO of Google's subsidiary YouTube, published her own reaction, a rebuke of DeMore, which begins, yesterday, after reading the news, my daughter asked me a question. Mom, is it true that there are biological reasons why there are fewer women in tech and leadership? Meanwhile, Harvard's cognitive scientist Stephen Pinker prophetically summed up the response to DeMore's ousting. Google drives a big sector of tech into the arms of Trump.

I'm pretty sure it was billions in tax breaks, Steve. Yeah. I'm sorry, Keith. Are you implying that vocal Epstein defender, Stephen Pinker, isn't a trustworthy source on women's issues? Looking back on it all now, DeMore thinks his point that some men at Google needed the same kind of leadership training and support that the company was offering only to women got lost in the shuffle. It's just impossible to ask for training and support. for men, he says, because then you're seen as whining or a misogynist as I was. Why won't this male-dominated field ever think of the men, he whined neuronically? But what about the commonly held belief that his memo said, or at least implied, that women

couldn't code? When DeMore was at Google, only about 20% of the U.S. tech employees were women. By 2024, 27% would be. It's amazing that in only seven years, the number of rose 35% probably due to evolutionary biology that's what you at the end. The agreeable scus got bred out. The short answer is no. I did not say that.

DeMor tells me. But he concedes, I think it was easy to misread. I think especially if your model of the world is that there's a sexist group of men that are trying to get women out of tech, then you might read what I was writing as having been written by one of those men.

I think people can read the same thing and get a lot of different interpretations. and I think that was clear from some of the coverage. Two sides were just talking past each other. What has changed since 2017, he says, is that people now feel much freer to speak out. A shift he attributes to... Well, not women, but...

Yeah. A shift he attributes to wokeism. They were rebels, he says, of woke progresses. But then they became the empire. It became too rigid, and people could see that. No, it doesn't make sense. It became cool to rebel against. that. I asked if the memo played a role in the change and for the first time since we've met,

DeMore not only smiles, but laughs. Oh, ho. Oh. I think so, he says. Did my memo change the world? Yes, yes, it definitely did. It did change the world. But I'm just a simple man who wrote a memo and invented mousepad activism. Not all heroes wear capes. Some of us flee to Luxembourg.

It's not an answer store. When I asked D'Morif now, nearly eight years later, he still stands by his memo's arguments. He tells me he does, but points out that some of the biological information he included wasn't in his original draft. At first, he says he wanted to focus on the idea of ideological conformity. People feeling silence, they don't speak their mind. that's bad for business and bad for solving the issues that you're planning to solve. The biological stuff came after people were commenting and saying, what examples do you have?

D'Amor said he tried to explain to his Google colleagues that women and men tend to have different personality traits. But the response was, they only have those personality traits because society is treating them differently. Adding in the biological information, he says, was the only way to stop that infinite loop of its sexism all the way down. well, short of listening to that argument. Okay, that's weird, that description. It sounds like a lot of women

spoke up and were not agreeable. Like, I don't know how that's tossible given the facts of the biology of the suitors, but like, that's what I'm hearing there. It's crazy. Yeah.

In the weeks and months following the controversy, DeMor fought back or tried to with a slew of media appearances everywhere from CNN to Joe Rogan to even an interview with alt-right figure Milo Yanopolis. I was just very focused on trying to correct the record, says DeMore now, how can I rectify

things? But in an era when words were considered violence, DeMore had simply drawn too much blood, a photograph of him wearing a white shirt featuring Google's distinctive multicolored logos spelled out instead as gulag, a gift from photographer Peter D. who DeMor did not realize is known as the Annie Leibovitz

of the alt-right sealed the deal into exile he went My inspirational story will make an amazing mouse pad design someday

Well let's see When life hands you lemons A woman should make you lemonade Oh, well Don't get many ideas Todd They call her

Planny Leibowitz? Since then, a few people have acknowledged that serious mistakes were made. Kelsey Piper, who writes for Vox's Future Perfect section, recently defended DeMoron X. His memo, she wrote, was not only basically correct, women are less likely than men to become software engineers, and this is not only because of bias, but also, she notes, had a painful and hindsight quality of earnestness. You want more women in tech, and I think you're mistaken about how to get there. If I show you some published psychology research, we can actually design better means to your goal.

James D' Moore, Piper concludes, was egregiously wronged. Oh, guys, it turns out he was just asking questions. I've judged him so harshly. When I read her tweet to D'Amour, he is, as usual, pretty even-tempered in his response. Sorry, sleeve. I wish more people were willing to, that was my sleeve. It's a tasty sleeve. Don't be judging. He's a spectry like me.

I wish more people were willing to say that eight years ago. But how did that tweet make you feel? I ask later. It's nice to be recognized, he tells me. But I've learned not to base my feelings on what people on the internet say about me. Has anyone who criticized or shunned you apologized, I ask? Not that I know of, he says. In contrast with all the drama of his past, DeMore's new life in Luxembourg is quiet and consists of mainly three things,

reading Aripporteur in French in order to improve his grasp of the language, working at the unnamed tech company and spending his time with his six-month-old son, who he likes to put in a fabric wrap while taking him on long walks in the Patricci Valley below the kids. Okay, I know it's not Patrici. Put that fucking rule. It's like he's hugging me, he says. So he lives a fairy tale life And nothing bad happened to him

Wow the bodies that fucking woke Culture leaving its weight, right? God I don't know I mean He had to listen to Joe Rogan talk For an extended period of time That's true That sounds like that said a cross from Miloianopolis

For a while Also James I had a six month old He actually hugged me You know I get many hugs there bud He shows me an adorable Post bath picture of his smiling son He has my wife's very big eyes, says DeMor, but we think

his mouth is similar to mine. The key fits right in there. He's trying so hard. DeMor has a mouth that meets at a point, almost like the prow of a ship. When I ask what, if anything, he's learned from his cancellation, he says,

It's not necessary. When I ask what, if anything, he's learned from his cancellation, he says, it's not necessarily any snappy thing, but I learned not to believe the corporate propaganda fed to us and not to really believe what I read about in the news and that there's just ways of framing almost any event to fit your narrative. He gives me an example from our own conversation.

We've been talking for hours, he says. I'm sure you could pull in isolated sentences to make me say whatever you wanted. It's possible, right? She's going to make you sound good, so I guess it's possible. Yeah, right. He's also philosophical about it. our new age of rebellion against wokeism,

which itself began as a rebellion against the mainstream. That made it cool, he says. But then it itself became the mainstream. Yeah, the rebels became the empire, Star Wars, whatever. We get it. You already did this way. You ran this play a while ago. It became commercialized, and in many ways it became oppressive and too rigid.

And so then it became cool to rebel against that, and it was overthrown. But it'll come back, he cautions. There's many factors that will play into this. He continues. Trump's general outlook seems to be more inward, focused, like some of the anti-globalization stuff, it would point to a more stagnating culture, which will make outward-looking views more interesting to the intelligentsia, right? And so, it'll become popular again, end quote. I ask him what he means by it. Cosmopolitanism, he replies,

which is what wokeism was a part of. When I asked Moore, what the fuck that sentence was about, when I asked him more, if he could imagine moving back to the U.S. at some point, he says that yes, he would, in order to be closer to his and his wife's families. But if he stays in Luxembourg for four more years, he can become a resident. And there's so many things he loves about living here. Like the fact that Luxembourg is a walkable city, and so he doesn't have to own a car and public transit is free.

I live in a castle, he adds. Seriously? I ask before remembering he got a large settlement from Google and thinking the money must have gone far. An undisclosed settlement. He just laughs and throws his arms out. becoming more animated than he's been all day, gesturing to the plaza on which we are standing,

the many tall trees, the charming old buildings, and the giant clear sky above. The whole thing, he says, is a castle. You're gonna finish your sleep? And if you had to summarize

what you learned in one sentence, Eli, what would it be? De more you know, the less trouble you would have been in. There you go. Oh, my God. And are you ready for the quiz? only if it treats white and men equally.

Yep, I should have. Right, Eli. Who's the real victim of the story? A, Luxembourg. B, the entire community of reputable mouse pad artisans who have great products. C. Cicel and Marsh, who might have to watch a three-hour conversation between Joe Rogan and James DeMore. We're going to have to.

stupid or D nobody some guy wrote an all company memo with a shitty political hot takes and he got fired that's what's supposed to

happen is no victims here think it's I think it's E all of the Obama okay okay Eli

with canceling all the DEI initiatives what's the most popular drink at Google's break room now A

flat white privilege B Swiss mis sogeny C, pale male or D. Alt Sprite.

I got to go with flat white privilege. Correct. All so good. All so good. Oh, pale mail is fantastic. All right, Eli. We don't make fun of that. James. All right, Eli, James.

He's got the whole sleeve in his mouth, guys. It's to the shoulder. I'm worried he's going to joke. You don't have a lot of sleeveless sweatshirts. They weren't always. Didn't start out that way. All right, Eli, James. Well, James sucks and is a

boring milk toast. Nobody, the world forgot about 10 minutes after he made the news. A, true, B, true, C, true, or E, all of the above. Oh, I'm going to go with E all of the above.

I thought that would throw you. Oh, it looks like... It looks like Eli is the winner and gets to choose the essay as for next week. Oh, I would like a Tom essay. All right. Well, for Tom, Heath, Eli, and Cecil, I'm Noah. Thank you for hanging out with us today. We're going to be back next week.

And by then, Tom will be an expert on something else. Between now and then, you can see more from Heath on his solo YouTube channel. Are you going to finish that in which he approaches random strangers on the street and asks if they're going to finish that. We're going to do existence. Now it has to exist in the world. He has to do it. We also do other podcasts that are real.

I can just start filming it. And if you'd like to help keep this show going, you're going to be a purpose of donation at patreon.com slash citation pod or leave us a five-star review everywhere you can, or both. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes. Connect with us on social media or check the show notes. Be sure check out citationpod.com. Fellow trans people, I have terrible news.

A billionaire figured out that we all. made ourselves second-class citizens so that we could sneak a peek at her snatch while she peed. Damn it! Who told her? Graham lay a hand. Damn his Santa.