Citation Needed - Jimmy Hoffa [True Crime Special]

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

James Riddle Hoffa (born February 14, 1913; disappeared July 30, 1975, later declared dead July 30, 1982) was an American labor union leader who served as the President of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) union from 1957 until 1971.   Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

Ely, why are you walking us out into the woods? Did you make a raccoon hermit again? No! I do not believe you at all. Okay, look, we just need to go a little farther into this grove. Here, and voila! Oh, hey guys. Oh hey! She's so cool.

Hey best friend. What? What are you guys doing out here? I had a GPS tracker installed in your hip two days after we met. Wait, what? It's not important? What, what are you guys doing out here? I had a GPS tracker installed in your hip two days after we met. Wait, what? It's not important. Wait, what are you doing out here?

Oh me, I'm nothing. Nothing? Nothing? And why are you trying to hide a shovel behind your back? Right now I can see it. Oh, this? Yep. Is some shovel.

Yeah, that's the, uh, Moyo Mota Masashi workout. It's all the rage now. And the shovel. I'm sorry, what Yeah, that's the, I'm gonna get a motor massage. She workout, it's all the rage now. And I'm just showing what it's in that hole back there. Nothing. I don't know what hole, what are we talking about? Let's just go back to the studio. We can just all go back right now.

Oh, no, I get it. It's this week, we're doing Jimmy Hoffa. So you're like bearing a body out here or something like as a bit to go with the gym. That's cool. Can I touch it? Wait, I touched this. I would also like to touch the body.

The body, yeah. That is it, guys. That is exactly, there's actually nothing in the hole. We should just go back the gym. That's cool. That's cool. Can I touch it? Wait, I touched that. I would also like to touch the body. The body. Yeah. That is it, guys. That is exactly... There's actually nothing in the hole. We should just go back. Let's just go back. What do you think? Let's go back. What is this? Sticking out down. Yeah, that's that.

Yeah, that's that. This looks like a... An essay. No, what? An essay on Fadi Arbuckle? Who is that though? What is that all about? That gets Fadi Arbuckle.

Let's just go back to the studio. You're talking really weird. Were you bearing a citation needed script out here about fatty, our bugle? Maybe. I don't know why it doesn't look bad. Look, this is funny. Good jokes on page two, good story.

I don't know why you're wrong. Read the second half. Oh, well, okay, I get it now. All right. Oh, let me see that. How bad could be? Wow. You guys want to help me bury it?

What do you have? Let's do that. Is the hole right here? Yeah. No, that's Eli's essay in Columbine. Oh, right. Oh, yeah. Got about that.

You know, we're running on a space out here. We need a new spot. Oh, new spot. New spot, yeah. Still think we should have done Terry Shivoh. We need a new spot. Ooh, we'll do, yeah. Still think we should have done Terry Shival. Well, he's not having that conversation again. Hello and welcome to Citation Needed. The podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts.

Because this is the internet, and that's how it works now. I'm Eli Bosnick and I'll be uniting this 5-man workforce, but I'll need some muscle and some brains. First up, two guys who should probably start paying protection money to themselves, Noah and Tom. Yeah, but as I learned when I became self-employed, I'm cheap. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha myself to blame. So, and also joining us tonight. Two guys old enough to play stick ball with our subject, Noah and Cecil. I'll tell you, Hoffa's batting average when playing stick ball was local to 99.

That's how it was. You know, normally I would push back on the old thing, but yeah, I must be getting old as fucking with my memory, didn't you already introduce me? And also joining everybody is a person who is also here. Heath, me, welcome to the show is a person who is also here. He's me. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Great. Now he cares when he's on the show. You got to be in the sketch. The opening sketch. That's all right. I'd like to take a moment

to thank our patrons. This is a beautiful little podcast you got here. And it sure would be terrible if something happened to it. Luckily, you got an out of an accent? Neighborhood Watch over at patreon.com.com.com. It's kind of terrible tragedy would never take place. So if you'd like to learn how to join the ranks, we should have checked out. Stick around to the end of the show. And with that another way, tell us Tom, what person, place, thing, concept, phenomenon, or event?

Well, we'll be talking about today. Well, thank you to our patron box. I'm not allowed near the end zone of giant stadium. Actually, suits me just fine. I didn't want to go. Anyway, but today we'll be talking about union leader Jimmy Hoffa. Ooh, and Cecil, you read between the lines.

Are you ready to sell us up the river? For literally any price. I don't even care. Like a fucking skittle. I don't even care. Too fast. So who was Jimmy Huffa? Jimmy Huffa was an American labor union leader when that actually meant something.

Yeah, now what it means is that you're probably late on your mortgage. Yeah. It was the president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, which is the trucker's union. And my dad, Teamster for several decades, could not say this guy's name without calling him a crook. He also went missing in 1975. They declared him dead seven years later, but they've never found the remains and there

were no convictions in the disappearance. Just like Osama bin Laden and JFK. Interesting. Not at all like that. Not unrelated. Just like those people bin Laden and JFK Interesting not at all like that. No, not unrelated. Just like those people we shot down over Pennsylvania. Yeah, like, God damn it. Cancel the episode. You have a hole in the forest.

Take three. Jimmy was born in Brazil, Indiana. Yeah, worst carnival ever. I'm just very disappointed. No one can use the bathroom in the morning. It was born on February 14th, 1913, a Valentine's Baby. His dad, John Hoffa, died when Jimmy was seven from lung disease. And the rest of the family moved to Detroit

when Hoffa was 11. He quit school at 14 years old and worked manual labor jobs like painting full time. Oh, gee, Mrs. Ampatry, sure would be terrible if someone would paint your house when you released, you know what, this doesn't make any sense. I gotta get a new kid.

Yeah. Well, I was showing this stuff. Y'all remember when people moved to Detroit. Yeah, I mean either the 50s. Yeah, they're giving us stipend for you to do that now. They've been trying to get me to come back in. Like we have water now. You can drink it. Bottle bottled. It's here. Hafa moved on from painting houses, so working in a grocery store chain when he was a teen, he became involved with the union and organized labor around this time.

The job he was working paid shitty wages, had shittier working conditions and not a ton of job security. So think professional podcaster with a boss. Done. Done. I just want to point out that Eli has nobody to blame but himself for his as bestos covered work station. I didn't do that.

Is that as bestos? The workers wanted to unionize and Hoffa took to union leadership naturally. Hoffa became inspired to work as a union organizer after a run in with an abusive form. When Jimmy stood up to him him the other employees were impressed by him so he moved on from that job and became an organizer with the team serves in Detroit local to ninety nine uh... back when threatening people effectively was a valid line item on your eyes

i just i live in the wrong era how about i fucking kill you as a negotiation tactic that is sadly underused in today's labor? He like gets it. Agree. Now it's, how about I fucking starve you? Yeah. And it's used by the other team.

And I don't mean you're fired and you're gonna starve. I mean, congratulations, you work at Walmart now. You are below the power. Yes. You made it to starvation. Oh, Jesus. A few years later while working with non-unionized laundry workers on their strike,

he meets his soon to be wife, Josephine. They married six months later in September of 1936. They would go on to have two kids, a daughter, Barbara, and a son, James. And I want to just quote Wikipedia here so you can hear the house price. Quote, the office paid $6,800 in 1939 for modest home in Northwest Detroit. The family later owned a simple summer lakefront cottage in Orion Township, Michigan,

north of Detroit. His son, by the way, 30 plus years after Jimmy has removed as the teamster's union president, takes over the position and he's been the IBT president since 1999. Really? Jesus. True fact about that house in Detroit. It's actually worth less now than it was in 1993. Yeah, man.

Seven Grandelgish, everything north of I-94 right now. That's crazy. In the 30s through the 40s, the teamsters grew pretty significantly in both numbers and power. In 1903, when they weres, the teamsters grew pretty significantly in both numbers and power. In 1903, when they were founded, they had 75,000 members. There was a push by Hoffa and other union leaders to consolidate other trucker unions with the teamsters. That made their membership grow to 170,000 in 1936, and 420,000 in 1939, and it was over

a million by 1951. Wow. Hoffa won a bunch of contract disputes using Quickie Strikes. In 1939, it was over a million by 1951. Wow. Offa won a bunch of contract disputes using quickie strikes. A quickie strikes. Only one side is happy about the outcome. That checks. That's a good name.

Good term. And the secondary boycats, which leveraged other related industries to pressure on another, to get them to cave to the demands of the union, this would be like a grocery store strike to help get rights for farm laborers. It's hard to wrap your head around it, but back then workers actually cared about other workers.

Also, since the teamsters were connected to a ton of professions since they delivered raw materials, finished projects, et cetera, they would, they use this network to become the most powerful union in the country. Right. And that's why Amazon workers each get their own P bucket now. I agree with everything.

And hey, fun fact, that secondary boycotts thing, literally illegal now. So yeah, if you're in a union, don't like root too hard for a second bucket per person at Amazon. Oh my God. So shit, we can't even get everyone in the same room to decide that people shouldn't go bankrupt or die if they get sick.

Like trying to convince people to take time off or work to strike because their neighbors are striking is a utopian dreamscape we will never see again. Something which I just said about the 1970s. And the mob had its dirty hands in the pie to the truckers union worked totally in bad with the mafia so this means that half of in order to get and maintain power in the unions had to deal with mafia buses quote

he had to make accommodations and arrangements with many gangsters beginning in the Detroit area organized crime influence over the ibt would expand as the union itself grew and quote. Uh-oh, okay, but nowadays union leaders have to get in bed with unsavory characters like U.S. Congress people. So, it was a judge Jimmy, too. I was saying. So even though Hoffa was a teamster and a union organizer, he never worked as a truck driver

or a dock hand. Yeah, that's how management works, though, and that's why it's better. In 1946, in December, Jimmy Hoffa became the president of the Detroit local 299. Hoffa received a draft letter for World War II, and he, quote, obtained a deferment from military service in World War II by successfully making a case for his union leadership skills being more valuable to the nation by keeping freight running smoothly to assist the war effort." Shortly thereafter, he became the head of the Michigan teamsters. So he was just like, the Aronkelsam, these kneecaps ain't gonna break themselves.

I'm gonna go ahead and pass. Love, Jim. I love that the actual deferment was based on, I'm too important ahead and pass. Love Jimmy. I love that the actual deferment was based on, I'm too important to get shot. Yeah, I think, what does it say about the rest of you fuckers? I'm fair, I wear that shirt whenever I walk around Chicago. That's just, that's just, that's just,

it's useful. In 1952, Jimmy Hoffa was elected National Vice President of the Teamsters. That year, the president of the IBT, Daniel Tobin, was stepping down after 45 years on the job. Daniel's successor, Dave Beck, was having some real difficulties securing all the support he needed to take over and Hoffa smoothed over any issues in exchange, Hoffa got the number two spot.

Okay, there's a 100% chance after that. He just looked around the room like, who doesn't love a solid number two poop joke that's a Trump said that this week 10 15 times Five years later back was appearing before the US Senate select committee on improper activities in labor or Management field He was questioned by Robert F. Kennedy a name name that will appear later in this story, about a missing $322,000 from the Union Treasury.

And he pleaded the Fifth Amendment, meaning he refused to answer possibly incriminating questions. He pleaded the Fifth the hundred and forty times. What? And I have no idea what the over under un pleading the fifth and a set of questioning is but it seems high. It's the time. How does that happen?

How do they get all the way to 140? Yeah. Okay, yeah, I know I took the fifth, 139 times in a row just now, but no, I'm totally gonna answer some of these questions. Just keep going, go ahead. I feel like you're lying. Totally not lying. Nope, I'm gonna gonna answer some of these questions. Just keep going, go ahead. Go ahead. Uh, uh, uh, I feel like you're lying. Totally not lying.

Nope, I'm gonna answer. Go. Alright, uh, feels like I'm gonna stop my 140th question and you're gonna take the 50th again. Nope, nope, nope. Toad's gonna answer. Totally, just, it's not gonna be a joke on you at all. I'm gonna find it.

So, where did you, uh? Fifth amendment. Ha, ha, ha. In your face, we're gonna murder you. What? We're gonna murder you. What? We're gonna murder you? Oh. Anyway, at the big IBT convention that year,

the guy who was now under indictment got voted out and Hoffa was voted in as president of the teamsters. Back would be convicted of fraud and get 30 months. On release, he'd got his $50,000 your pension from the teamsters and invested in parking lots got his $50,000 your pension from the teamsters and invested in parking lots, dying at 99 a millionaire. And can I just say, parking lot union strong?

Yeah. He got a pension from the union that he was convicted of deep fraud. I live again, wrong era. From God. God. Huffa created a national master freight agreement, which is the terms of the contract for the union truckers and trucking companies.

And it was a huge piece of his legacy. And Wikipedia says it could be the most important thing he did in his life. He also expanded the union by unionizing over the road truck drivers into the teamsters. Wait, wait, wait. Where were the existing teams to be driving? Under the road trucker I love it. He also tried to bring in airline workers But that he did not have the success he had with over the road truck drivers. All right. Well so far It's just the charming tale of a legitimate businessman who looked out for the little guy

So I'm gonna go get some cozy hot cocoa while we take a little break for something we call apropos of nothing Hi, I'm Tom and I'm Noah. You know, we've had a lot of fun here on citation Needed today about Jimmy Hoffa, but there's also important lessons we think the modern worker could learn. For instance, do you know that instead of going through the long and often fruitless process of a wrongful termination lawsuit, you can just break your boss's legs? It's true.

And while websites like Glassdoor are a great way to encourage openness about salary in the workplace, so is just setting your boss's car on fire. It really is. Because while the robot who's coming to take your job never needs a bathroom break, he also won't kill your boss and leave him in a river. Unions. Sometimes she got a murder. Hi, I'm Heath Emmett, and I'm Eli Bosn. You guys stole our opening.

You missed, I said different names. If you missed our live shows in New York, fuck you. Nope, not what I was gonna say. What I was gonna say is that we'll be putting up the full videos of the shows on patreon.com One show per month over the next four months and then we will kill ourselves. Nope. Yep, not again Not what I was gonna say just wait until I've finished cool However, we will be leaving each video up for just one month So there's never been a better time to sign up to be a patron at patreon.com slash citation

pod. Not to mention patrons get access to our patron only mini soads are suggestion box and much much more. That's right. So if you want to see those videos and support the show sign up at patreon.com slash citation pod. And if we don't get 200 new patrons by next week, we quit the show. No, no, we don't or do we don't And we're back when we left off Jimmy Hoffa was a law-abiding citizen doing his best with what he had Cecil you have a really really Italian name. You were told what happened next? Oh, I can tell you in great clarity what happened next, my friend. So, half at the time, he was doing some amazing unioning. He was also under investigation and then appealing fraud and jury tampering charges.

This is about 15 years into him being president of the teamsters. And at this point, they make Frank Fitzsimons, his vice president. And this, I guess, is the first time they name a VP as a direct successor. Before that, I guess there was just a vote, but they assumed he was going to go to jail and they needed someone there that could just take over and keep the kickbacks rolling in. Great. And that was our current events news break back in the story. Yeah.

I wish if only we could replace ours with a long dead semi professional mobster. Well, Haifa was having all this trouble with the law. JFK was president. He don't interest in. Here it is. There it is. Anyway, anyway, JFK appointed his little brother, Robert. We mentioned him earlier as Attorney General. Interesting. Thank you for letting me. And my family is not nepotism.

If the president does it, write that down. They'll use it later. Yeah. Well, RFK was supposedly pissed. He couldn't nail down Hafa and other union bosses years earlier and he had an axe to grind so he came after Hafa with guns blazing. He said some teamsters prayed for Jimmy Hafa and Dallas.

Is this too obvious? Hafa did stay off these convictions for a long time. He was initially investigated and earnest in 1957, and it would take seven years for him to be finally convicted of a crime. It would be 10 before he served any time. He was eventually convicted of attempted bribery of a grandeur. How was that even a thing?

Like, that's just like obstructing justice. That's not, oh, I hear it. Now, there it is. Yep. Hafe was also convicted of fraud in 1964. This was for improper use of the Teamster Pension Fund. Quote, Hava had illegally arranged several large pension fund loans to leading organized crime figures.

End quote. They were good for it. All in all. He was sentenced to 13 years in prison. He tried to appeal these sentences for three years and was unsuccessful. Damn, 13 years. You can get tried to appeal these senses for three years and was unsuccessful. Damn, 13 years. You can get more time for very obviously not killing a lady in Texas. So just before he enters prison, the contingency vice president, Frank Fitzsimmons,

takes over. Now, the reason he was chosen by Hoffa in the first place is that he seemed really loyal to Jimmy. He owed pretty much all of his success to Hafe. He was local to him as well. And Hafe had gone to great lengths to consolidate power as the president of the union and run it unilaterally. But once Fitzsimmons was appointed as president, he started to undo the work that Jimmy had done. And he relinquished some of that control

that the president had. Geez, you call it a prison. One time, everything falls apart around. That's a story. Sorry, he undid everything he had done. What did he like disorganize the workers? Give back a couple of snow days, who's on on there? Okay, Eli, you're presenting that like a joke,

which means you're not super up to speed on what unions have been doing from the test. You're here, so. Well, maybe you shouldn't have picked somebody who's one of whose major qualifications was he was nearby. What have you looked at him? Proximity choice. Yeah.

Five years after going to jail, Haifa had his sentence commuted to time served, and he had to stay audio union leadership for a decade. The guy responsible, president Richard Nixon. Interesting. Ahafa also got his pension of $1.7 million as a lump sum, like he was some kind of lotto winner, I guess.

It kind of was. Yeah, I mean, it kind of is not, yeah. It really was. This was an unprecedented payout by the way. And just two random facts here, the IBT had always endorsed Democrats. However, the teamsters endorsed Nixon in the last election. Interesting. Thank you. He thank you.

Look, look, look. I'm crazy as the next guy and the next guy is he. But telling me Nixon was behind anything that I don't know about is a bridge to. And even though Hafa had a sentence commuted, he was still pissed that he couldn't play Union games. So he started suing the next-aid administration to get this overturn. That doesn't work though. Yeah, maybe because he was suing them for not ignoring the law enough. He's also running into adversity in the Union itself as most of the people in it had stopped

supporting him. He really only still held sway over the local union where he got to start to trope local 299. You know, it does seem like you'd lose some support after going to jail for basically stealing from the people you were hired to represent. I mean, it seems like, but that's not a lock, weirdly. Yeah, no, Trump sure is open. In his bid to get back into power, Hatha tried to make a deal with the mafia. One of the local leaders and made guy,

Anthony Provenzano was approached to endorse Hatha. This meeting did not go well, quote, Provenzano refused to listen and threaten Hatha by saying that he would pull out his guts and kidnap his granddaughters, end quote. And as you can imagine, Hafa did not take this so well. He retaliated by cooperating with investigators and against his mafia opponents. All right, asshole.

I'm going to go hang out with Robert F. Kennedy, where it's always safe, no matter what, and Narka Newman. I'm going to say like, that's a fucking weird threat. Once you pull out my guts, I have to tell you, I said to get really selfish. I don't care so much about my grandkids anymore. I hate to give you notes on air, bro, but you're doing that shit in the wrong order, man.

July 30th, 1975. Hatha was supposed to meet up with local mob boss, Anthony Jackaloni, and the guy that threatened to make sausage out of him, Anthony Provenzano. He went to the local restaurant called the Red Fox to meet him. He's trying to hide a gun in the toilet tank, but 1975 Eli's just shitting in the only stall. Come on, man, I'm doing it. Ah, I'm on flush for two. I'm on flush for two. I'm on flush for two.

Call his wife at 2.15 and another colleague at 3.30, complaining that these two were late. This was the last time anyone spoke to Haifa. Well, the last time anyone can prove anyway. Spontaneous combustion, exactly. That's interesting. That night, he doesn't return home and they find his car unlocked at the restaurant.

At 6 p.m. the following day, Hafe is reported missing. The investigation really doesn't go anywhere. They did a DNA test in 2001 on a hair that came from a car of a family friend and found a positive match, but the guy denied that Hafe had ever been in the car. An FBI agent in 1989, so like 14 years after Hoffa went missing, had this to say, quote, I'm comfortable. I know who did it, but it's never going to be prosecuted because we would have to divulge informants and confidential sources." Yeah, just check her emails.

That's all I'm saying. I'm a little confused. Like, isn't that what the informants are for? Like, are they just treating this like an academic exercise? Yeah. So there's been a ton of heat level speculation about- Interesting. His death.

And I'm going to include some of these from the wiki page. I'm sorry, did you say heat level? I was a conspiracy theorist way before he was. All right, wait, can I pre-empt this with some Noah level speculation? No, as in like, maybe it was that guy who said he was going to rip out his guts to paragraphs and go, my money's on that guy. Typical Noah always blaming people for the threats they make. I told you, once that restraining order expires, you get a duel.

That's fine. Recently the film The Irishman was released to Netflix, or as I like to call it 2001, a mob hit, a time Odyssey. Yeah. I started watching it just before Thanksgiving. I'm gonna finish some time in March. Anyway, that movie's based on a book called,

I heard you paint houses. In that book, and in the film they make, the assertation that professional killer, that the professional killer that was close to Jimmy Hoffa Frank Sheeran, was responsible for killing Hoffa. Supposedly shot Jimmy in the back of that two times and the body was cremated. The evidence here is just non-existent.

Okay, are you calling Martin Scorsese a liar? See so, the only guy who wrote the book that Martin based the movie off of, because Martin never has an original fucking idea. That's what I'm blood traitor. Blood stains from that mob house did not match Jimmy's blood type, so a different guy was plugged in the back of the noggin. Also, hey, we just saved you four hours of the movie version of Grandpa's phone. You're fucking welcome. Goddamn.

Uh, 15 to see another old man eat cereal from a fun cold cereal from a bowl. I'm gonna shoot myself Was a big fat guy big fat guy Three minutes of callings back to the story just die so I can have $11,000 split up among your 84 grandchildren $1,000 split up among your 84 grandchildren. Richard Kuklinski, the notorious mafia hitman iceman said, Hoffa's body was putting a 55 gallon drum and set on fire for a half an hour. So the drum was well to shut, buried in a junkyard. And the drum was supposedly later dug up.

But they put it, not sure what they're talking about, the body of the whole drum and then they smashed it. They put it in a car and they smashed it in a compressor and then they shipped that to Japan for scrap. And then, and then we put it in a rocket ship. We shot it to the moon. We blew up the moon. They had an entire body and they burned it for 30 minutes.

We're trying to seal in the juices. They're following a very strict recipe. Well, we sue Vita in this one of the barrel first. Exactly, right. So Mythbusters did a Jimmy Hafa special where they scanned the ground at Giant Stadium with a radar to see if there were human remains under it. They were not. And this was confirmed later when they tore down the stadium

and looked physically underneath the stadium. And despite all that, idiots from New Jersey still make dig hear signs. Yeah. Yeah. Let me take them to the new stadium. Yeah. For real.

Yeah. For real. And they're fucking proud of it to the like y'all now that top of the reverence quality oak tag I'm crushing this joke cb s I couldn't think of an acronym but did you just dig here? I'm sorry but isn't that the wrong city? right like I feel like to get the dude, died in Detroit, maybe his body is somewhere in the greater Detroit area. No, don't hate on this.

In New Jersey's entire tourism economy is clearly based on dead body tours. What else do they have? Here's another complete misquote. Please take samples from the ground under a suburban Detroit driveway. Well, at least under the right fucking state. After a continuing quote, after a person reported having witnessed the burial of a body there around the time of Hoffa's 1975 disappearance, tests by Michigan State University anthropologists

found no evidence of human remains. I just, I love this guy. He's like, he seized the damn body be embarrassing. He's like, ah, that's nothing. And then later on, that could be Hopp. I can't believe I might want to check that. I'll put it to the side. Also, look, Mythbusters hauled out a metal detector

and some guy at Michigan State grabbed a vileful dirt, spontaneous combustion case clothes. Another gangster said they basically played the shell game with Hoffas corpse. Tony's really said that he was buried in a shallow grave and they had planned to move him around a bit, but those plans deteriorated like a corpse in a shallow grave. He said that the location of the grave was near a field near the restaurant where Hoffa went missing. In 2013, please stuck up the area that he indicated and found nothing, but the case remains open.

Well, to be fair, if the area indicated was just Detroit in general, the police would have found him taking her otherwise. A lot of decoys though. Finally, Michael Franz A. Z, the New York mob boss claimed to know where Hoffa was in an interview with a YouTube channel. He said that he knew who the killer was, too. His claim is that the commission, the five mafia bosses in New York that controlled organized crime across the country, had ordered it. He said, quote, I can tell you the body's very wet.

Kelly and Dave. My catchphrase. And quote, the shooter is still alive today, but currently in prison. Okay, Boomer. Boomer. Okay, but why would all those mobsters go to jail and die for a lie? That's what I can say. No, maybe we should stop asking Jimmy the Sphinx Geochomear, whoever the fuck that is.

We could get answers to this shit that isn't in the form of a fucking riddle. The FBI did release a pretty obvious statement in the form of a 56 page memo in the Detroit Free Press. Hmm, side note, is there a page limit at which memo is no longer the appropriate word? Yeah, I think it's at no vell at that point. 26 page memo. They don't speculate on any of the information or facts regarding the disappearance itself, but do speculate on

the motive in it they claim quote hoffa was murdered at the behest of organized crime figures who regarded his efforts to regain power within the teamsters as a threat to their control of the unions pension fund and quote uh... also murder is bad Fire is hot. Double space. Double space margin change. We're the police. We are the police. I think the main gist of this is that there were certain people who knew what happened to Hafa and where the corpse was, but they never said a thing about it to anyone. Or if they did, they were already recognized liars and so no one believed them.

It's so hard to find an honest mob murderer these days. Just can't trust them. They should unionize. What? One thing that isn't mentioned in the article is, but it's pretty evident is the shit that this guy and other corrupt union officials pulled fueled union distrust in the United States.

Conservatives on both sides of the aisle back then latched onto the corrupt narrative and used this to discredit unions and help weaken them significantly. I know there are a lot of other factors involved into declining unions, but this clusterfuck should not be overlooked. Yeah, if only unions had been perfect,

I'm sure Jeff Bezos would happily pay $15 an hour. All right, I listened to Cecil's whole sentence, so I'll back you up there, man. Bad good guys are worse than bad bad guys. $15 an hour. All right, I listened to Cecil's whole sentence, so I'll back you up there, man. Bad good guys are worse than bad bad guys, ultimately. And if you had to summarize what you've learned in one sentence, Cecil, what would it be? My dad was right, he was a goddamn crook. And are you ready for the quiz?

Absolutely, let's do this. All right, Cecil, which of the following is the most valuable union benefit we all still enjoy? A, the existence of weekends and thus the proliferation of workplace Monday jokes. B, elimination of child labor. So your children have more time home watching YouTube videos of grown men playing Fortnite. See, unions in large part responsible for healthcare being a private sector benefit secured

through work, or D, and second thought, fuck the union. Actually. Definitely not D. I'm going to go with B, I'm a huge Twitch fan, I think we should be watching. Yeah, that's peace. You know, I'm such a fan of these, so you got to write. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, I got a good one for you. See, so what cool line did the mobster that killed Jimmy Hoffa say right before he pulled the trigger?

A, Astala Teamsters motherfuckers. B, Astala Vistaista Smother Trucker. That's a good one. I like that one. That was really good. See, here's looking for you, kid. Ah! Or D, I'm gonna make you a Hafa. You can't reuse me. Oh, I miss. There's also good.

But you're missing the fact that he was killed by the Jewish mob. So it was Hafa. Nagila. Ha-ha! Nagila Ha-fa, Nagila Ha-fa. That is correct. That was Secret Injury. You got nothing. All right. I go one more for you. Cecil, why are you afraid of the truth? Ha!

You're part of the conspiracy and you're being paid off by big rig. Be your dad clearly killed Jimmy Hava. See, he clearly helped with the sword based parts of that murder. D all the above. And 75 I'm two and I'm like whacking at his ankle with a little rake. I'm gonna go with D all the above. It was not D. No, it was specifically just your dad killed. And you didn't have. Like, if you were only two, you'd have to hack it as legs would break you. So yeah, Cecil's dad did kill Jimmy Hoffa.

That's great. If that spread out there like the lock did and doesn't matter, he's dead. You can't fucking imprison ashes. That's a shit, right? I mean, you can. Pretty cute. I mean, we already have.

They're in a box. So yeah, they're in a box. So Heath wins. Heath wins.. Yeah. Pretty cute. I mean, we already have. They're in a box. So, heath wins. Heath wins. All right. Next week, I'm going to pick Noah. All right. Well, for Tom, Cecil, Noah, and Noah, I'm Eli Bottom.

You can hang on this thing. We'll be back next week and by then, Noah will be an expert on something else. But we know, and then, Heath and I will be hiding in an underground bunker from a nicotine less Noah who will be on a search for flesh to ran. And you can check out Tom and Cesar's new city tour of Chicago, another popcorn shop on tribute sites. And if you'd like to keep this show going, you can make a purr-approvision at patreon.com slash citation pod. Or leave us a five star review everywhere you can. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes, connect with us on social media

or check the show notes, be sure to check out citationpod.com. And remember, there's no better union negotiation than when you've kidnapped someone's daughter. What? What? What? What? What?

What? You were right, Cecil, burning them is a much better idea. Are you guys sure there's a lot of good essays in here? I mean we got Jeffrey Epstein. No. Sandy Hook? Absolutely not. Oh wait, zip lining.

Put it in the fire. Okay. Thank you.