Citation Needed - Prison Breaks [True Crime Special]

Episode Date: August 19, 2020

Prison breaks are a thing where you're in prison and you don't want to be there anymore so you leave. But not when you're allowed to. Sorry... there was no Wikipedia article to copy and paste from and I panicked. --- Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

But then the very next week, James Charles went to a big party like nothing even happened. I don't even know why you would look this up in the first place. Yeah, I don't know why you looking this up. What part of drama alert don't you understand, Cesar? I don't understand any of it, all the parts of it, none of it. Huh, that's weird. Where are Eli and Heath? Yeah, because this week's episode,

I guess they just kind of expected some kind of, you know. Oh, there it is, guys. Oh, damn it. I knew we should have taken a left at Albuquerque. Nice, bug's bunny reference. He, Eli, what are you doing? What does it look like Noah? We read this week's essay and now we're escaping.

Well, we tried to escape. It looks like we kind of just dug in a circle and we're back now. Side note, movies are very deceptive about the size of sewage. Yes, thank you, false advertising. Tiny, I mean, do I even want to know why you guys tried to escape our podcast?

I mean, one, you guys always say no to our great business ideas. Yeah. And also we die like all the time. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, you could just figure out how to write a turn without killing everyone in the sketch. That's, you could get met at top.

I mean, that is my thing. That's my thing. Guys, do that. This, this week's SAs about prison escapes. You both tell jokes about a thing someone else writes for money. That's not really the same thing at all. Yeah.

Yeah, I guess so. All right, so what do you say? You guys wanna get out of there and do the podcast? Yeah. Okay. Oh no, the tower. Oh no, the tower. Oh no, the tower. Oh no, the tower! Ah! See?

Lazy. I guess you could say they just saw their plans collapse. Much better. Much better. Hello and welcome! Citation needed! Podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend where experts. Because this is the internet internet and that's how it works now I'm Heath and I'll be the Warden or some jail thing

First up we have a man who didn't kill his wife and a man who doesn't care he lie and Really hoping this is our breakout episode. Yeah. If Eli's trying to jump out of the way of a train, I've got a lot of money on that train. I've got a lot of money. And also joining me is a man who orders weed by the green mile and the Union enforcer

for the Lollipop building aaws. He can show about chails. Noah and Tom are here. What? When you get to the end, you spark it up, you nail it, dude. Well done. Hey, don't fuck with me, Heath. I have a short fuse.

And body, I have a very short body, too. That's not true. It's not very good. So tell us, Eli, what person-placed thing concept phenomenon or event are we gonna be talking about today? We'll be talking about prison escapes. All right, and Tom, you clearly watched the Shawshank Redemption last week

and openly wept at the end because you're any human being ever. Are you ready to deliver this entire episode as Morgan Freeman? Oh shit. Oh shit. If I entire episode as Morgan Freeman? Oh shit! Oh shit! If I could deliver like Morgan Freeman, I wouldn't be on this fucking show! So Tom, why prison escapes?

Well heath, as we continue down the road towards living in a fascist nightmare, I thought, what words of wisdom, what advice could I offer our listeners to help to get through these increasingly bizarre times? Then after nothing useful occurred to me, I thought, well, what skills might we all need to acquire to live healthy, satisfying lives in this age of jack booted unrest? And, you know, what better skills set to acquire for 2020 than how to escape from a prison? Because if there was ever a year that begged the question, which is better? This or crawling through a mile long tunnel of shit, it's clearly 2020.

Yeah, at this point, I would shoot through that tunnel like an under construction action park slide. You can get out of this fucking year just by going through a tunnel of shit. Yeah, that just sounds like free shit. Yeah. Exactly. It's shooting in vomiting. That same time was a year.

It would be 2020. Absolutely. All right. Well, this story doesn't actually involve a tunnel of shit, but it's not that far off of Shawshank and the broad strokes. The escapees for the first story were two guys named David Sweat and Richard Matt. They were both convicted murderers being held at Clinton Correctional. That's an upstate New York maximum security prison.

You may want to recalibrate what maximum security means though, when you hear this shit. First, both Matt and David were in the honor block of the prison, which it means. Not a great idea. Sounds like a bad idea. Yeah. No, it didn't mean they had great grades at prisoning. I think it means they had to like sign a pledge to totally promise never to escape. No official word on the involvement of any pinkies in that promise.

So when you're on the honor block, it Clinton, there was less overall security inmates had more privileges. And in this particular case, that also meant that the guards, I guess, help you to escape. Uh, hey, Frank, this the obstacle course we built for the fun run lead outside of the jail. We're going to get in trouble. We're going to get in trouble. All right. So before I tell you about the escape itself, I've got to tell you a little bit

about these two guys because again, these are the guys that were on the honor block at Clinton. And evidently, they were really fucking good also at making friends. Let's talk about David Sweat first. David Sweat was convicted of shooting a cop 22 times. Then backing over that same guy several times in his car. Jesus Christ. then backing over that same guy several times in his car. Jesus. That's crazy.

Getting out of the car and finally shooting that guy in the face. If I think gets out, the cops just lay in there, Diane. The cops are like, all right, well, I hate to be that guy, but I'm gonna need your insurance. Damn. It's so crazy. This is so backwards. This normally the cop who does it.

Yeah, I almost like I don't understand the accept. 22 is actually kind of a love you got to admit. Yeah, exactly. That guy got off easy, you know. Yeah. All right. I do rather say I recognize that we have a deeply flawed and imperfect justice system under statement, right?

Yeah. But remember that in the prison, everyone is operating on the assumption that this guy Just did what I described and between the pair of escapies David sweat is the sweetheart of the two Richard Matt was convicted of kidnapping his boss throwing him in the trunk of his car still okay driving from New York to Ohio and back still like that. Driving from New York to Ohio and back, stopping everyone's in a while to periodically open up the trunk and just beat the shit out of his boss in the truck. Jesus Christ.

Okay, now I want to make my drive between New York and Ohio. Stop kicking the fuck out of my mouth. It seats back there. Eventually he stopped and broke his boss's neck with his bare hands, dismembered the body and threw that into a river. All right, you know what? I've had those bosses and those days. I'm sympathetic. I'm a paper. I shouldn't be. Okay, fine. Fine. You can switch your shift with Karen, but the know we get through the hole. And also for Richard Matt, he has a history of escaping from places, plural. He escaped from a group home when he was 13, when he was at Iriac County Correctional,

he climbed a fence and escaped for nine days. And he also escaped from Mexican prison in 2007, where he was also being held for a murder that he committed while in Mexico. Yeah, but was it a Mexican friendship cross your heart and hope to die? President, I just want to know if I need to be impressed by this or not. I always always have a trouble being sympathetic with the boss, but now like that was on his resume too, right? Like he knew that I can do it.

I'm so stupid. I'm a problem solver, but you also seem like the type that might throw me on a trunk and take me on an interstate murdering me tour. I so you don't fucking let's roll the dice roll the dice up. Okay, so these were the guys that were on the honor block. And they must have been really fucking charismatic as well because they befriended one of the guards, a guy named Jean Palmer. Now naturally then Jean Palmer also allowed the pair access to restricted areas of the prison and also a whole bunch of tools. And the pair also became close to Joyce Mitchell.

She was the civilian supervisor, the tailor shop where the pair worked. And like really good friends with Joyce, I guess, because Joyce also hooked the pair up with even more tools, including saw blades and chisels. I don't know if she baked them in a series of cakes. I wouldn't doubt it. She kicked.

She also agreed to be their getaway driver for their escape, although she bailed on the last piece at the last minute. Yeah, one could say that the tailor hemmed in a hod. I'll see myself out. I'll just say my self right now. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right, so I've got to tell you a little bit about some of the security features.

Again, at the maximum security prison at Clinton, tell you a little bit about some of the security features again at the maximum security prison at Clinton. Tell me if anything strikes you as a flaw in the system. The whole system of justices are at too broad, Tom. Should I stop there? Oh, yeah. All right. I don't know if we have that kind of time.

Okay. But I have our show and her clothes right. We show in her clothes. We would hit the prison, giving out soblades and chisels. I don't know. So that a saw blade, shape, cake, you can just put it in a regular shape, whatever. So at night, nobody staffed the watchtowers, probably because the inmates just all agreed,

we'll keep an eye on each other. We got this. Also bed checks, which were supposed to happen regularly throughout the night, they happened less frequently in that, often they just didn't happen, like at all. And the bed checks did happen. They weren't what could be described as thorough

when they did because to fool the guards for bed check, Matt and David literally did that thing you do when you snuck out of your house in high school. It is, stop some fucking blankets under the covers. She just looked like a roughly human shit. No. Ah, ah, ah. All right, and then if we drive the getaway car

in reverse, also like very, very secular, no matter how you're driving, you just go, you have to roll it all the way out of the prison driveway, though. You gotta start it once you get to the road. So the article I read in this said, the prison also had quote, an overall culture of complacency.

No, it seems like not the culture for an maximum security prison. To have. Maybe you missed red and they were actually a meh, some of them security prison. I'll show you something. I'll show you something. I liked it, so you can stay.

All right, so the stage is then set for the escape. What? Yeah, but they just asked Stan if they can run out for a pack of smoke. Well, instead they used the tools their buddies gave him and the pair saw their way through the steel walls themselves. They cut around the air events to hide their work. Once through the walls, they had access to the interior of the prison, which was a sprawling network of catwalks. They made their way silently down five stories

to a 24 inch steam pipe. And since it was summer, that steam pipe wasn't in use. They cut into the pipe, they crawled through the pipe, through the prison, under the walls, and emerged from a manhole cover a block away. They made that sound.

Thank you for the full aid. Oh, so too. Prisoners need to build fake pipes that bring you back into it. Yes, yes. And just move them around. And there are actually be turtles that patrol them. You have to jump on their hat to shoot them back and forth. That's how it should work.

So once out, Joyce is supposed to be waiting for the pair, but I guess friendship isn't what it used to be because she just wasn't there at all. They ran off and stared, just fuck that. They ran off and stared into the woods. And I looked this area up on a map. There is a lot of woods up in Clinton, New York. It's pretty much just all woods, in fact, which is why the manhunt, when they were discovered missing, took weeks.

For the first three weeks, they traveled together. They were living in and looting hunting cabins, sleeping in deer and duck blinds as they moved. After three weeks, though, the honeymoon period had kind of ended and the pair split up because, and I love this, Matt's drinking had become too excessive. Matt, Matt, this is the third distillery we had to stop and build. I think you have a problem. Do it in the build. We need an intervention here. Dude, I'm not doing any more body shots. It's just you and me. It's weird.

I'm going to have a sore. I just, I love two things. Like I'm willing to accept that you're a murderer, but like the drinking, I'm drawn alive. I got principles. So federal agents cut up with Matt first who'd acquired a shotgun that he was reluctant to put down. He was shot and killed for that by federal agents. Authorities cut up with David not long after and they shot him in the back when he ran away. He caused America to have a shot. Yeah. Yeah. Then he could shot in the face

by the Dick Cheney. David survived the attempted murder and was remanded back in a custody. No word on whether he retained his honor privileges. All right. So the cops walked into the woods and heard a guy yelling, shot, shot, shot, shots and drinking by himself in a duck line. And they shot him. Yeah. That's kind of funny. And the other guy had just recently realized that was a bad fugitive partner moments ago. So not the hardest man, huh, ever. But we do have a few clever criminals coming up next. After a quick break, there's some oppropos, nothing. Where warden we have an overcrowding problem on our hands.

Huh, we do? Yes, sir. The inmates are packed into the cell so tight. It's like a bug's bunny cartoon where you're like, he opens the closet, and everything falls out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got a, he's like, he's standing there, you know, he with his back pushing it all,

I guess he's using his leg muscles. I get the reference, I get the reference. What are our options here? Well, we can transfer some inmates over to a happy, fun time town. Oh, well, what's that? Well, it's the new name for that Deluxe accommodation, low security personal confinement center.

Used to be a chiles. Oh, I actually sound real comfortable. Oh, it's pretty great actually. They have a balancing house, a 24 hour buffet, a rock climbing wall, a water slide. Every cell comes with a personal concierge. Wow, that sounds amazing. It would be like being a kid and getting locked up

in a chucky cheese overnight. So the food is inedible then? Well, it's a prison. Oh, okay, that's fair. Well, now who are we gonna pick to move over? Well, I have a few suggestions. What do you think about these two murderers? You wanna move murderers to happy time, fun time?

Yeah, I mean, would you hear their story? You might change your mind. What if it broke his boss's neck with his bare hands and then dismembered the body? Well, that actually sounds pretty horrible. Why would, why are these your first pick to go to Superman Prison? It's a personal confinement center.

Well, okay. The other ones that qualify are all petty marijuana repeat offenders. Oh, well, that, that actually sounds better though. Well, you up there black. Oh, next snappy McGee it is. Fantastic, sir. Hey, Johnson, you think they'd let us into that bouncy house?

Oh, sure, doors unlocked. We can just go right in. Bouncy house. Bouncy house. Bouncy house. Bouncy House. that honor among thieves wasn't the greatest system for prison. What the fuck? I will next I want to tell you guys a story of Alfred Hines. When Alfred Hines was convicted in 1955 of robbery and sentenced to 12 years, he tried to regain his freedom by using the appeals process.

But since that process is a complete farce and doesn't work at all, he eventually broke out of notting him prison along with some other guy who wasn't interesting. Hines hit out in Dublin for 248 days. That other guy's so mad. He's so mad. I know, I'm so excited. I knew I was interesting. He hit out in Dublin for 248 days.

Mike condolences there, sending letters and recordings to the media to try to drum up support for his case. And maybe if he was lucky, get an Netflix special. That didn't work and neither do the Netflix specials, by the way. No. So he was re-arrested,

which he found equally as annoying as the first arrest. So again, with the aid of someone less interesting, Heinz escaped. This time, and I love this, like crafting a custom padlock and then waiting for the guards to use the bathroom and locking them inside of it. Nice.

Guys, see, this is exactly why I said we shouldn't all shit together with the buttons. I'm so dumb. Why would you make a padlock? Why would it have an unlocking mechanism? Do you just want to make sure the guards have quite in shape? Look at Cher under the door when have done the trick, right? Got a bridge troll standing outside of the bathroom.

So he was re-arrested and sent to Chelmsford Prison and again met an inmate with an escape plan. The pair somehow, it's not at all clear how obtained a number of keys. And though the keys they had got the most of the way out, they still had a scale, the 25 foot barbed wire topped wall, which they did somehow again, nobody's really sure how. He remained free this time for 20 months before getting busted for cars smuggling and was sent to prison again. And this time he again fought his original conviction. In 1964, he was granted a pardon for the original crime of robbery. Any left prison this time using the front door.

Bob and in a weave-in on his way out, they're like, dude, stop. You can just go. You don't have to stop. Stop circentining. Well, but did he also get pardoned for car smuggling and three prison escapes? Because those are all also crime. I know they don't mention that at all. They're just like, you did nine years for nothing.

You could just go. So this next story is that of Mark DeFries. And it's kind of tragic actually, because the poor guy never should have been in jail to start with. His story is what his father died. His father left his mechanics tools to his son. But then when Mark came to collect them,

his stepmother called the cops because the will wasn't yet finalized, and also she was a huge bitch. So Mark ran and the cops fucking hate that, and he also had a gun on him. So he got sentenced to four years in prison for basically just trying to get his own stuff and being uncooperative about getting shit for it. This conviction didn't sit well with Mark, so naturally, you attempted to escape 13 times. The government asking if you want them to give you something to cry about and then no matter what you answer, they give it to you anyway. Right.

Like as soon as I answer, you're going to, yep, okay. So the first time he somehow procured some LSD and then he slipped it into the coffee of the staff and his plan was to leave while everybody on the staff was tripping, but some total bummer narked on that amazing plan or just some like British prison guard Noah acting totally normal and being like, all right, thanks for the acid. Um, so you can't leave. It's one then. So when he was at Bay County Jail, he routinely escaped from shackles, handcuffs, and even straight jackets. He broke out of three cells.

At one point, he fashioned a zip gun, a working zip gun from a tube of toothpaste. He's Christ. What? This guy's amazing. At Leon County Jail. Byer arm. I made a tube byer arm on a toothpaste. What? This guy's amazing. At Leon County J. Byron. Out of a two by or amount of toothpaste. Yeah. She says, Christ, hire this guy's the next Q in James Bond. Amazing. The fuck. It gets kind of better, actually. At Leon County

jail, he cut through the bars of his cell. They didn't detail how. And then he used an actual like bed sheet rope to lower himself out. And then a more than one occasion, he memorized the tooth pattern of the guard's keys from sight, then fashioned working keys from paper to unlock his own cells. Ultimately, none of his attempts were successful and his original four-year sentence is now up to 106 years. Oh, God.

We, the jury, find you guilty and sentence you to stop hitting yourself. I had to take this back in the source, but maybe if you can cut through the bars of your cell with toilet water and make keys out of paper, you don't need your dad's old tools. But you know, what I want to do? Make a matter of paper and fucking toothpaste. In 2001, Pascal Payette was convicted of murder and sentenced to 30 years in carceration at Lloyd's prison in the South of France. But prison is boring and helicopters aren't.

So Pascal arranged for a few of his friends to land a helicopter on the roof of the prison so we could escape. And he escaped, but he'd also made some friends while he was in the clink. So since the helicopter thing had worked out so well for him, he again took to the air, landed a helicopter on the roof of the prison, and then broke out three more of his buddies. Nice. This did not sit well with the authorities who managed to again recapture Pascal, and instead of holding him in one prison, they shuffled him from prison to prison every

few months and kept him all the time in solitary confinement. I love the thought of the like, hey boss, time sensitive question. Are we expecting any real helicopters today? So the schedule. And you would think shuffling them around and keeping them in solitary would work, but it totally did not fucking work in 2007. Four of Pascal's friends hijacked a helicopter along with the pilot of that helicopter. A wielding sawed off shotguns, they demanded that he fly to a prison in

Grasse and again landed on the roof. Once at the prison, three of the gunmen jumped out, broke into the prison, forced their way through to where Pascal was being held in solitary, broke him out and took off again. The whole operation from touchdown to take off lasted five minutes. They flew off from there to the coast about 50 miles outside of cans. The pilot was released unharmed. The gunmen in Pascal were captured months later in Madrid. And Pascal is now back in prison, though the authorities are not disclosing to anyone which prison it is. Also maybe they should station someone on the roof of these places, you know, just in case. Yeah, or at the very least, paint over that giant

age with a circle around it. All right, boss, I made the age into a B. So no way this should happen. Wait, unless they get a balloon. What Yeah. Oh, what's a, what's a non-vehicle letter? Shit. All right, guys, and since we started our story in Clinton, we are going to end it in Clinton. Yeah. And I think I speak for all of us when I say we always shall a lot of things had ended in Clinton. Yeah.

What else we do. So this last story is a story of none other than two Poxiecoors, Godmother, Asada Shakur. Hmm. Asada Shakur was a member of BLA. It's an offshoot of the Black Panther's movement. And our whole story would be its own episode, but I'm going to run through the highlight reel before we get to the prison break. Asada was linked by law enforcement to a number of crimes ranging from bank robberies to

murder. And while that story gets pretty complicated, suffice it to say that Asada was no fan of law enforcement, law enforcement was not overly keen on her either. She was placed on a wanted list with a number of warrants outstanding for her arrest. Well, look, I'm not trying to make excuses here, but when you grow up with a name that starts with ass, you have to be tough right? You have no rights. In 1973, state troopers pulled her over and not knowing who they had stopped.

When they approached a gunfight ensued that left state trooper Warner forest or dead, along with Black Panther leader James Coston, Assad as Shakur is wounded and eventually captured by the police. But during the trial, her supporters rallied outside the courthouse and Assad, it was several times removed from the courtroom for her angry recriminations against racial injustice. Once the trial was concluded, Asada was sentenced to life in prison for the death of Trooper Forester and she was sent to Clinton Correctional Facility for Women. That's the honor code one.

It's the lady honor code. So there must be something in the water up there and fucking nowhere'sville wasteland that is Clinton, because again, the security is almost cartoonishly lax. BLA members decided they needed to break out their leader so they robbed a jewelry store in New Jersey, getting away with $105,000 and headed out to Clinton to rescue Tupac's godmother. Tupac's still alive.

No, sorry, by the way, they stopped on the way. In a book. No, they stopped. So wait, they stopped on the way for a robbery. Like someone was like, I mean, we have the guns guys. Yeah, two trips. Who lives in California, he's still alive. You stop. Show me the body, Cecil. Jesus Christ.

So once they arrive, they realize that nobody checked the ID of the visitors. What? So you could just tell them any old name and they would write it down like in the guest book or whatever. As if nobody at a prison had heard of the idea of lying, there was a metal detector, but it wasn't used or even turned on, which meant you could walk up to the desk, sign yourself in with a bullshit name, then waltz in armed like Neo come to get Morpheus, which is pretty much what Assad's friends would end up doing.

Yeah, well, admittedly, federal agents aren't familiar with identifying themselves, so it's only natural they'd screw that up. So the next day they have APPs out out for IP freely and dick groups or something. So on November 2nd 1979, three of us, had his friends arrived very heavily armed and they commandeered a prison van. Then they walked up to the guard at the front desk and they just held a stick of dynamite against the window. And I just do it. They'd be letting side.

Just put them in. Now, man, against the window. You like apples? There you go. They just walked up and just took a soda right outside of the van. They drove to a nearby school. A soda got in the trunk of one car. They drove for a while.

They switched cars again until they got her out to a safe house. She's just driving around being like, guys, nobody knows about the first car. Why are we doing the three car monty right now? Just fucking driving the safe house the first car. Maybe she was being chased by helicopter guy from the last story. Is like, yeah. If you have anything. So now there was a massive manhunt underway with police circulating wanted posters and then supporters, papering over the water posters with Asada Shakur is welcome here. Posts. So once again, she got into the trunk of a car this time with a fake driver's license and

$50,000 cash from the jewelry store robbery. And she was driven to Pittsburgh to hide out probably because nobody has ever found anything they were looking for in Pittsburgh. I want to make a Pittsburgh sports team named Thaf joke and I have choice anxiety. Is it pirates? Is it Steelers? Which one is it? I don't know. Fuck those penguins. He was reading Astros flippers. Right. I just love that they got 105 grand,

but by the time they give it to us, like, look, we got 50 grand. For you. And we bought you half a pizza, you know. It's a driver's license was at least $55,000. It's a gas money. Just ridiculous. So in 1980s, she left Pittsburgh for the Bah Bahamas and then she finally ended up in Cuba.

Good choice, right? That's a big upgrade for sure. Either one Cuba, Cuba is an upgrade. Which she was in Cuba, Fidel Castro called her a hero of the oppressed and offered her political asylum. To this day, Asada Shakur is living her best life in Cuba. And I am definitely not jealous about that. She was declared a terrorist in 2013.

There's a $2 million reward for her capture, but good fucking luck with that. Yeah. Yeah. And her godson's still alive. And if you had to summon her in the war sentence, what would it be? Make friends with a helicopter pilot from the Black Panthers. It's the only way to be safe.

And are you ready for a quiz from the panel? I'm either ready, or this coffee you gave me is exceptionally potent. Something's going on. All right, speaking of which, I got a question for you here, Tom, when trying to set the mood for your LSD based prison break, what music should you play for the guards? A, crowbar hotel, California. B, anything with joint in the title. See,

Brick brother and the holding cell. Fantastic. No, anybody. Okay, so if any, if any, just like nine people are going to love that joke, and everybody else is going to fucking what? Nine people is eight people more than our listening Or D anything by clink floor Click for it. Oh, it's it's clink Floyd great cuz of the wall. You got to scale wall

Exactly, you gotta make it. Yes, that is correct Exactly, exactly. You gotta make a protest against that is correct. That is correct. Oh, that is correct, Tom. Kling Floyd was the reason I wrote that joke and everything else was a desperate attempt to get to that.

All right, Tom, why was Asada Shakur declared a terrorist? Hey, for making an assada her captors. She's just being because she killed that. Everything you do is so terrible. B. Oh, now you sound just like his father. B, she killed that cop and self defense after he shot her while her hands were up and you're not allowed to do that. Or C see the government

was Shakur. She would kill again. I see as actually almost acceptable. So I'll go, is it? No, no, no, incorrect. It's B. She killed that cop and self defense. All right. Brian, Tom, Brian Bowlarsson was not mentioned in this podcast, but he escaped from prison 22 times, mostly using a saw to cut through the bars. After his last escape, what award was he given? A, best supporting hacktor. The breakout artist of the year, the penitential medal of freedom freedom or D because he was the greatest of all time the escape go That's so tough see so you know why that stuff because not only they all independently good, but they are they are better

By proximity to being near Eli's That's why they're so good by proximity to being near Eli's. That's why they're so good. So I'm gonna go with E, all of those are amazing. Escape and go in his god damn amazing. I'm sorry it was breakout artists in the year you're wrong. Always you have to be according to the rules. Nicely done, Cecil, you stumped him.

You're the winner. Oh, excellent. I'm gonna choose Noah and I hope he chooses something very spooky for next week. Woo! I don't see what I can do. Well, whatever. Tom Noah, Cecil and Eli on here.

Thank you for hanging out with us today. We'll be back next week and by then Noah will be an expert on something else. To end now and then you can hear Tom and Cecil on cognitive dissonance and you can hear Eli know on myself on Godolph movies, The Skating Atheist, The Skeptocrat and D&D Minus. And if you're feeling guilty about not paying for the unsolicited CD we gave you on the street. You can make a pair of episodes donation at patreon.com slash citation pod. That is our business model here. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, listen to past episodes, connect with us on

social media, or take a look at the show notes. Check out citation pod dot com Alright guys, I gotta hit the road. Let's just say I owe my former boss a visit. Okay cool. Oh See you later Who was that the The guy, no idea. Watch, reflip. Oh, wow, wow, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do one.

Watch, watch. Oh, oh. Heath, where's your dying noise? You're dying, huh? I'm gonna die. Come on, that's a, that's the lamest dying noise ever. I made a great dying noise. You did, but he just, just look, look, okay. Let's do it together on three.

All right. Yeah. Don't die lazy. Don't die lazy. We give us a three count, we're gonna go on four. Okay, yeah, okay. One, two, three. Ah!

Ah! Ah! Perfect.