Citation Needed - Roman Beast Hunts

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

Among Ancient Romans, bestiarii (singular bestiarius) were those who went into combat with beasts, or were exposed to them. It is conventional[1] to distinguish two categories of bestiarii: the first were those condemned to death via the beasts (see damnatio ad bestias) and the second were those who faced them voluntarily, for pay or glory (see venatio).[2] The latter are sometimes erroneously called gladiators; to their contemporaries, however, the term gladiator referred specifically to one who fought other men. The contemporary term for those who made a career out of participating in arena "hunts" was venatores. Content Warning: Cruelty to animals. Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

How is your favorite Bill Bryson book notes from a small island? That's like your favorite Beatles song being Heyju. It's a good book, not everyone likes to read 400 pages of what he saw when he looked around his kitchen, man. At home is a brilliant framing of his examination of modernity, Cecil. Ooh. A Bustafoggle! Get him off of me! I'm trying!

Yeah, yeah, yeah! Ah, here we go. I wasn't ready for this. I mean, come in today. Guys, guys, what's going on here? Why is Carl even here? You know the flying dog? How about Pugga Pegacorn? He's a Pugga Pegacorn. What? And yeah, he's mostly over on our shows, but why is he here? Okay. Time out. time out, fine. See, you know how this week's episode is about Roman beast hunts? Yep.

Well, we were thinking what's a Roman beast we could hunt. And we didn't know what Roman beast hunts actually meant, you know, because we don't Google stuff. That's, yeah, yeah, I'm confused now. How is heath of all people, the only one who Googles the weekly topic before the shenanigans? How's that possible? He does it ever since we told him that I want to fuck your mama. Kiss was a dinosaur. Oh, yeah.

I remember that. But, but, but anyway, so how is Carl the Puggepagocorn a Roman beast? He's Italian. That's true. A Italian. Anyways, baby, Bob, he boo, things got a little out of hand. I stabbed me in the eye with his horn. He did. I can see that. It looks like it hurts. It might defense you were hunting me.

Okay, guys, guys, let's get Carl out of Tom's skull and send him back to. What is it? The seven hells? Do you actually live there? Is that just for TNT minus? It don't be ridiculous. I live in New Jersey. Tomato tomato. But that's another. That as interesting, I didn't know that. You I made your show's weird, man. Yeah, yeah, you did. I'm a bugger, bugger, good. Hello and welcome to CitationNeeded the podcast where you choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and

pretend we're experts. Because this is the internet, and that's how it works now. I'm Tom and I'll be exclusively offering a thumbs down for our fighters today, but don't tell them that. Today's sacrificial lambs still think they have a chance at a good life and that's adorable. So welcome Noah, Eli and Cecil. Hi, jokes on you, Tom. I'm a suicidal lamb and I've been drinking. Yeah, one, now I'm just now learning that lamb chops has nothing to do with my offensive

strikes. Who knew? Well, as a sacrificial lamb, it is my duty to be an organ, donner, kebab, organ, Donner, Kabab, organ Donner. Just move on to a wreckage. You just got to look at it for a second and then you just keep going. Just back away. Just go down a little bit. You watch the wreckage of the joke and then you just move on. Look at, there it is. And we'll go on.

All right. Today's episode is about immoral mayhem and chaos for the entertainment of the masses. And if you're listening to this show, that is clearly something you support. Some of you, the patrons do. Everyone else is actually a mayhem freeloader. It turns out, don't be a mayhem freeloader. Be a mayhem sponsor. You're here. You'd like to learn how to join the ranks of Eli's enablers. Be sure to stick around until the end of the show. That out of the way to tell us heath, what person plays thing concept phenomenon or event. We'll be talking about today.

Oh, wait, actually, that will not work because heath is off today on the very important mission of testing the load bearing capacity of his letters. We'll have to punt Noah. What is this episode today about? But to be fair, he he refuses to answer that question even when he is here too. But but we're going to be talking about Roman beast hunts, Tom. All right, and Cecil, you've been obsessively sharpening your many swords and eyeing the neighbor's pets.

Are you ready to stop staring and scaring and teach us something? I have a perfectly normal amount of swords, by the way, I just want to say that. And I'll stop sharpening when that dog stops barking. That's what I'll say. Okay. Very, very threatening. All right. See, so why this topic?

Were you not entertained? Okay. So while researching more about an upcoming gladiator topic, I came across viateones or Roman beast hunts. And before I get into the topic, I want to warn people that we're going to be talking about animal death. In Lausa, animals died for this. You'll see later, they did this so much that humans created

many extinctions on multiple occasions. They killed tens of thousands of animals in a day. I'm going to spend some time talking about reenactments of battles, executions and some other odds and ends. So fair warning to the squeamish. This one is a little gross. Okay. So it's fine for Cecil to put this warning at the top of his essay, but when I put it at the front of Tom's essay about the potato famine, everyone got super whiny and judging. Okay, Eli, that's because you called the Irish animals. That is not historically accurate. The British didn't upgrade the Irish to animal status until sometime in the mid 1990s. that's true. Wow. All right.

Before we start, let's get some Roman Empire facts out of the way. So we know the size and scale of the empire itself. Yeah. Book at the height of the Roman Empire, it had a between 50 and 90 million inhabitants, which at the time is like 20% of the world population. Rome itself had between 500,000 and a million inhabitants. The empire covered 1.9 million square miles. Essentially any land to touch the Mediterranean Sea and about a one country deep, that was part of it. They had a massive aqueduct system that brought

fresh water to the cities, huge public bass, indoor plumbing with flush toilets, sewers, enormous arenas and roads that still exist today. Never has an opening reference to a trust guns bin more apt, but fine, Cecil, would you like to step on my heart now that you've torn it out? It's out of here anyway. Cecil, I'm still a little confused. Can you rephrase the scale in terms of bananas, please? If you read every Roman Empire.

I should also mention here that Romans didn't have a lot of thoughts on animal rights. Animals to them were wild things, not truly worthy of respect. And I mean, any culture that does public executions, blood sport contests to the death, and murders thousands of animals, as a pregame show isn't very gentle. So when we look at this with a modern understanding of animals as a pregame show isn't very gentle. So when we look at this with a modern understanding of animals and animal rights, it looks totally barbaric and monstrous, but this attitude toward animals was pretty widespread in ancient times. Oh, yeah, we actually now have a much more nuanced view of animal rights. Guys, actually,

can we take a break? I get the short ribs out of the oven and make sure I DVR the US rodeo championships. Okay. Well, if Tom's going to do my thing, I'm going to do his scoop, scoop, scoop society's collapsing and that's standard. The precipice, scoop, scoop, scoop. Why do I go scoop, scoop, scoop first? Why do you go scoop, scoop, scoop? Yeah. Why do you question? Look inward, the bees tunts were like I said earlier, oftentimes the opening act to the gladiatorial combat later in the day. The crowds would line up to see exotic animals brought in from all over the empire. They would import crocodiles and rhinos from India and Africa. They would capture lions and panthers from New Media.

Bears were brought in from Caledonia, tigers from Persia and elephants from Carthage. These creatures were caught, caged and transported, sometimes over thousands of miles just to be killed in the pregame show. When they were shipped in, they would be housed in manasuries all around Rome and then transported to the arena. And before we judge him too harshly, I want to point out that unlike the elephants and bears that I saw in circuses as a kid, at least these ones got the sweet release of death at the end.

Okay. Also still much less painful to watch in the SNL cold open. Yeah, sure. There were crews of people who would capture the animals and they did so in every corner of the empire and even outside it. A common way to nab dangerous animals was to create a pit trap, very large, deep pit with some kind of delicious morsel tied up and ready to be eaten like a, a baby sheep or a puppy.

Okay. For a guy who was awful concerned with people's feelings at the beginning of the episode, I don't think you needed to include the puppy. Big animal would jump down into the pit and then would not be able to get out again. Large groups of animals were captured with nets using soldiers with arms with shields to push the animals into them. I've also seen a reference to women's dumping massive amounts of wine into watering holes in hopes that the animals would get drunk enough to pass out.

Although, this one probably didn't work very well. Yeah, that seems more like an well improvised what happened to all the wine soldiers excused and like, like an actionable plan. Right. That wine thing is actually how we got Heath to agree to do this show. It's true. Yeah. All right.

Sorry. See, so I don't want to like drag your essay to a halt because I don't understand a small detail. That's Heath's job, but I'm confused about this plan. You get the tiger to jump into the pit. It can't get out. But then how do you get it out of the pit to Rome? Right. Do you offer it in enticing real estate opportunities? They start the whole party. You start it.

And it gets really weak. And then they're able to, they do that with a lion like elephants too. They would put, they would get the elephants into like a big hole. And then they would just not be able to get out and then just be like wait like a week and be like, oh, that can barely move. Oh, wow. Capturing tigers was an interesting enterprise and also written about in the contemporary histories. Tigers wouldn't be captured as adults, but instead be captured as cubs. Fucking pussy's.

Oh, right. Oh, you were talking about the cubs. Okay, all right. She's, oh, you were talking about the Cubs. Okay, all right. A hunter would raid the den of Cubs and then start off on their horse. The mother would give chase, but the hunter would pull out one of the Cubs and then drop it. And the mother would see the cub, take the cub back to the den, and while the poacher made their escape, sometimes after having to drop several Cubs in multiple encounters with the mother, they attempted to get away and she caught up with them again. Oh, Jesus. Got Carol Baskin and Robin to then.

Guy gets home. Ha, stupid tiger didn't give me even once. Now, let's see how many Cubs I got it none. Shit. Okay. That is the problem with this system. That is the problem with the system. Getting these animals to roam required a bit of logistical wrangling. How do you transport a four ton angry white rhino thousands of miles across land and see in a wooden vehicle? Very carefully and at great cost. You had to feed it, you had to house it, and in some cases the cities that they stopped in protested because the financial burden

of feeding, it was too great. This became so expensive that they collected taxes to capture and transport all the animals. Since this was business of the state, they would often use soldiers to help transport the animals back and also make use of the Roman postal system forts and lodgings along the way. The postal said your ad says if it fits in ship, stay with man, these forever stamps are going to pay for themselves. Look, I'm just saying people, if you think gas prices are bad, wait till you pay a rhino tax right now.

And you're probably thinking, yeah, getting a few animals to the rena's would be really tough. But imagine getting thousands to the rena's. Who talks says that on one day, Pompey had 500 lions killed. Emperor Titus opened the Colosseum with a hundred days as spectacle and killed 5000 beasts. Jesus. Trasian, the Roman emperor in 109 CE had 11,000 animals fight in the arena and die. But don't worry, these animals were not going to go to waste. All of them, he was cooked up and eaten after the games. So don't worry about it. Okay. Well, since Cecil just all reassured us, it's not unethical to torture and murder something so long as you eat it when you're done, I'm gonna have to call the police.

Let's take a little break for some apropos of nothing. Better call them on factory farmers, too, Tom. Tom's just sitting there in a marinating bag. Well, now I don't feel good about this. Welcome to the Roman post office. How can I help you today? Oh yeah, all right. I need to ship this crate. Okay. Okay. We have restrictions on the following stuff. Is it aerosol? Does it have lithium batteries? No, no, no. As a cremated remains hand sanitizer. No, no, no, perfume nail polish, a rhino. Yeah, that's it.

Perfume. Yeah. So you put that much perfume in the perfume. No, it's a rhino. Oh, okay. Where's it going? To the Roman Coliseum, attention, a regular basis. Okay.

Has it been stamped? Oh, yeah. I put the stuff on the box in a corner over there. No, no, no, you put it on the rhino. To what now? Yeah, no, no, we're going to have to change the box like every other day. So you got to put the stamp on the rhino. You, you want me to glue a stamp to a four thousand pound rhino?

Do you want to ship the rhino and that? I've got like 30 people in togas all waiting behind you over here. All right, all right. Fine. Okay. All right. So the earliest I can get there is a 462 days before noon. That's the earliest. Well, if you've gotten here before noon, I could have got there and 461. but yes. Mine, fine, I got. Okay, that will be one gallon of rotting fish cut sauce with two communal sponges you wipe your ass with. But all I have is three feathers to stick down your throats so you can puke up your dinner.

That's the kind of work. Better work, do you need change? Nah, I'm good. Okay, when we took a break, Cecil was weaving a Kafka-esque defense of Jeffrey Dahmer. And there were also some pets. So Cecil, what happened on the actual beast hunts themselves? That's a good question, Tom. Simplest ones were just men versus beasts. The men would be armed and armored and then they would fight against one or several animals.

Sometimes this would be something of a fair fight where a dozen men would take on an elephant or two. Sometimes not so fair with the animals being chained down and slaughtered. Initially in these beasts, since all the animals were chained, but as time went on, the Romans built some safety measures into the stadium. They had high walls and nets that protected attendees and they had a rolling bar on the top of the enclosure. So the animals that trial that tried to climb it slip back down in the arena.

Pompey went as far as installing a steel bar all the way inside around the arena when he first brought elephants to Rome. Yeah, you know, suddenly sitting in the splash zone up front is much less appealing. Yeah. Hey, not to undercut the theme of the like this, this was so terrible and we condemn it thing for the episode, but that elephant fight sounds dope. Yeah. Right now, what the shit out of that does sometimes the animals weren't killed at all. They would just be brought in on display for the public. Caesar famously brought the first giraffe to Europe in 46 BCE.

The Romans thought it was part camel and part leopard. They called it a camel lepartis. That's Latin for giraffe. They named it constellation. That kind of looks like a giraffe after it. The elephants captured in Sicily after Rome defeated Carthage also were spared because the first time the people had seen them in Europe.

Anything unique or rare was probably not killed. Well, fun fact, or I'm sorry, this is this essay. So like whatever the opposite of a fun one of those, I just, just because an animal was beautiful, exotic and defenseless didn't mean they wouldn't kill it though. Comedist is saying as hunted giraffes in the Coliseum. If he was a real sportsman, he would have strangled. The creatures were handled by animal handlers called Venators. I believe it's Venatoris. Venatoris there you go. Venetors. I believe it's Venetoris. Venetoris, there you go. Venetoris.

Venetoris. Venetoris. Yeah, that would be the right one. It's a big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, respected class of people at all. They're mostly criminals and slaves. They just needed a few bucks to get back on their feet. Bucks, deer, anyway, forget I was in. Anyway, this job was pretty dangerous. And the handlers went to little schools like the Gladiators' Loody to get special training. The handlers were responsible for getting the animals

into the arena from the labyrinth of tunnels that were under the Colosseum, where they used elevators that had a pulley system to get them to the floor. At least anything bison size or smaller, though bigger animals required special handling and transporting inside the arena. Okay, Cecil, but not for nothing. If you're the guy in charge of fitting a raging bison into a dumb waiter, you do have my respect. Just picturing some guy wandering around the underground with a moose. Okay. So this is the foot locker and that's the synopun.

Then we're okay. We're the fuck are we? We can hourly another common event saw be smashed against one another like an ancient animal face off. A common matchup saw a tiger fight a lion. Lion, of course, almost always lost. This is something of a close matchup, but sometimes the Romans love the good old fashion ass weapon, like when they pitted a full grown elephant against a bull. Oh Jesus. They enraged the bull using fire and a couple of other techniques and then they released the elephant.

When they released the elephant, the bull tried to charge it and like one quick movement of the toss and the bowl was dead. Sometimes they put two giant octopuses against each other and they'd call that squid gates. Okay. So why wouldn't they? No, those aren't squid. Squid, they're both different. They put two squids against each other.

I'm not speaking to either. You get a so many. How many? What's the difference in legs, Eli? Between seven. Now that didn't think I would get it so fast. One poet wrote about the opening of the Coliseum in the 100 days is Bactical that took place.

In that account, he talks about one rhino that had a full on UFC one sort of day. They, they first released the rhino into the arena and then they sent in a bowl. Now the rhino seemed a little lethargic as it might not have been properly fed along the route to Rome, but the size of discrepancy between the two is something like four to five to one. There's no way the rhino is going to lose. It doesn't matter how tired it is. The bowl, however, was not deterred by the size of its opponent and charged the Rhino,

but after one quick toss in the air, it died. And then the Rhino went to the center of the arena took a nap. So wait, wait, wait, underfed fighting against bowl for a living living needing an app. I am simpatico with this fucking Ryan. I don't know. I feel bad for the poet whose job it is to write about this. He like later looks at a schedule like, all right, let's see. Uh, ostrich versus giraffe. How am I supposed to rhyme with that shit guys? Even if you go with camel leopard or dollister, whatever, but still nothing right with that. Yeah.

What color is it orange? While the ride was sleeping in the middle of the arena, the animal handlers release a bear into the fight. They're just release a bear in the arena. Now Now we're not sure what kind of bear this is. It's possible that the bear could have been a polar bear. As some writing suggests, the polar bear has been captured and forced to fight for Roman amusement. Might also been a European grizzly bear, which is still pretty large, but not big enough to really do much damage to a rhino. The rhino, however, could not be bothered to get up and fight to amuse this assembled masses.

So the handlers poked the shit out of it with long sticks until it was like super mad. And then they left the arena and the only target for the 5,000 pounds of rage was the bear who was quickly chased down, gourd with the rhino's horn and tossed in through the air to land lifeless. Next to the bull, the Rhino had dispatched a few minutes earlier. Okay. So the Rhino just couldn't bear all that poking. Rhino holds barred. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is definitely jokes. Yes. I also miss heath. The crowd wanted more. And the poet does not say if the Rhino had a mid-round nap,

but the handlers let loose two animals at once to take him on another bull and a buffalo. While some inner species couples do get together and go on heartwarming, Disney animal adventures and the real treasures, the friendships they made along the way. This is not how it worked out for the bull and buffalo Rh friendships they made along the way. This is now how it worked out for the ball and the Buffalo Rhino charged each and killed them. So yeah, okay, but I'm not sure the other two animals even would have any idea they were on the same team. Like, did they give the ball and the Buffalo matching jerseys or something? I love it. I love it. I love it. I feel they, maybe they all charged a common point in the middle

with the flux capacitor or something. It's like cats with one big feather toy in the middle. And we got a juke. That's the thing. You got a juke. The last animal challenger that day was a panther. They released, he's going to kick that. I'm sure they set match. They released this cocky ass panther into the ring so it could get a shot at the title. Now let's do a little size comparison.

Did it have on one boxing glove? A panther. And an oversized belt. Yeah. The panther, which is really a leopard with a different coloration, can get up to 200 pounds or so. A small black rhino. And this is just presuming it's small, weighs 1800 pounds. And it's cool. And it's cool. And it can get up to six foot tall at the

shoulder. So the Panther, shot to the serena, saw the rhino, recognized it for the thread it was and it bolted. So it ran as fast as it could literally impaled itself on a wall of space. The poet does not go on to tell us the fate of the rhino, but I'm sure grew old on a farm somewhere surrounded by people and the wilderness creatures that loved it. Opened an Italian restaurant, Joe Pesci fucked his wife. Yeah, it's a old story. The Romans did all kinds of matchups. Bears versus lions was way more exciting back then than it is now. Probably a damn similar number of completed passes too. Yeah. Right. Exactly. One matchup again involved a rhino, but this time it went up against an elephant.

And it sounds like this rhino went on to fight many elephants according to Pliny the Elder. Quote, in the same plays of Pompey, and the many times beside it was a rhinoceros with a single horn on its snout, this is the second begotten enemy to the elephant. And I just want to point out really in pause here to say that according to the footnotes in this book, the first enemy to the elephant is the dragon. Okay. All right. Back to the, I mean, I'm not going to argue with that. Yeah. I don't know that they're friends. They don't get along. Quote, he file with his horn against the hard stones and so prepareeth himself to fight. And in his conflict, he ameth principally at the belly, which he knoweth to be the tenderest part.

He is full as long as his enemy, his legs much shorter, his color, a pale-ish yellow, end quote. I love the image of the final literally putting his nose to the grind. I know. I'm guessing. I'm going to get you. And him having a strategy too. Yeah.

I'm going over the bell. I was thinking of a flying ex kick, but you know what? Now that I'm here, I love the idea that there's somebody who gets gourd by a rhino not in the belly. And it's like, huh, sucker. Good. I got me in the belly. And now besides people versus animals and animals fighting animals, they also used animals to execute people. These people would sometimes be tied up and wheeled out in tiny looking chariot things and just be devoured by big cats. Well, there's recrucified and set upon by wild dogs and bears and eagles and else

it. Eagles. So Eagles Tom. Eagles. I don't know. Right? Because there. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don. sick. They're fucking bald eagle named America on the guy anyway, just an eagle sitting in a pit trap. I don't even know how I'm fucking here. This makes no sense. None. I just stayed here till I got sleepy. That's what a point out. This sentence on Wikipedia about Christians getting executed in Rome. Quote, there is a widespread view among the contemporary specialists, the prominence of Christians among those condemned to death in the Roman arena was greatly exaggerated in earlier times. There is no evidence for Christians being executed at the Colosseum in Rome. And quote, Okay, it is important to note the superstitious affiliations of the condemned.

I mean, if I'm ever tied to a stake and eaten after by a wild animal, I do want the footnote to say sometimes knocked on wood didn't work. Okay, but on the upside, if they'd used a panther on Jesus, you know a bunch of Catholic guys would be walking around with a little statue of it around their neck. That'd be fucking awesome. Oh, so thankful. Thank God. Right? Right for a two-edged, as it would have been if it was an eagle though. Right. Oh.

Oh. One article I read said that of there was a very interesting way for condemned criminals to be executed by animals. They would construct several sea-saws in the arena. They would bring out prisoners naked and strap them to the devices. And they would let out big cats. So the people tied to the sea sauce would have to jump in the air or assisted by the weight of the other person to get away from the animal and not get eaten. So now, now the strata here is probably not to get your partner eaten as they would leave you

as the next course, but still probably more fun than the art park. That's all I'm saying. So many quite like how big were these sea saws that they would go higher than a tiger can jump. I know, man, I know. I have cats. And I'll tell you what, like some guy wiggling around suspended just out of reach. He may as well be covered and catnip with a fucking laser pointer pointed of cats, and I'll tell you what, like some guy wiggling around suspended just out of reach. He may as well be covered and catnip with a fucking laser pointer pointed at.

What? Well, yeah, that's, well, that's the thing is fucked up. It's a sound. It was probably at least occasionally fucking a door. Right? So, oh, you almost got him. Get those toesies. It occurs to me at this point that I should point out that Romans could have spent their

time and money better, but that I remember that we're on season 42 of survivor. It's fine. I think I prefer the sea solace on the screen. The bees suns themselves went on for centuries. The Roman Empire provided animals for these types of events. And they used so many that many species became endangered or were wiped out in certain areas, especially those closest to Rome.

It's possible they were a contributing factor to a species of elephant going extinct and hippos not living in the northern part of the Nile, along with many other species becoming endangered in different locations. All right, let's switch gears and let's talk about the mock battles that took place in the arenas. The Romans love to reenact battles and they would often use prisoners and criminals as the combatants. These weren't really gladiator combat with trained people or actors playing out a role as the

losers in this they died. They would often reenact military triumphs in the arena to glorify the military power of Rome. Well, that being said, though, they also had plays where the actors died in the end. Fatal shurais, they call them, look for a pro, probably for a Cecil essay on that one coming soon. I would imagine. Some of these battles were mock naval battles. But probably for a Cecil essay on that one coming soon. Some of these battles were mock naval battles.

That's crazy. In the earlier times, the Roman emperors would order large basins built so they could hold these events. And these battles weren't just one ship fighting each other either. Julius Caesar staged a mock naval battle where 2,000 prisoners fought against one another and they were pilot around the arena by 4,000 rows. Come to him. Emperor Augustus held one where 3,000 people and up to 30 ships waged mock war with one

another. And they were huge events. So they diverted rivers into these large pools. So they could hold. They would also flood the Coliseum Arena floor. They put in full-size ships and have mocked naval battles. The boats would probably have been altered a bit to float in shallow water, making the bottoms flatter rather than like a real naval vessel, but they were probably the same size outside of the water. The first one held in the

Coliseum was an 80 AD by Emperor Titus. The battle had 3,000 people in it and they were reenacting the battle between Syracuse and Athens. They even built a little island in the middle of the arena so the ships could land and the combatants could stand on the island and fight one another. Jesus. The biggest recorded naval battle was supposedly held by Emperor Claudius in 52 AD, where he had 100 ships and 19,000 combatants and they fought it out on Lake Fusine and, and, and, and, she, Jesus. So I love the thought of Titus asking some random dude, like, well, why don't we just have a naval battle in the Coliseum? And, and then like any new, we would get killed if he said, well, because it's not water, sir. So they said they had their deferred rivers.

And she's like, I'm not telling them you fucking tell either you tell them or we defer this fucking river. Just the amount of clock that would take. And all the buckets that they need to pour it on. It's crazy. While these mock battles came at a great cost to the people putting them on, the public seems to not be that enamored with them. They seem to have gone the way of some of the wildlife during the Roman Empire and died

off. The public favored gladiator combat over a bunch of untrained prisoners, duking it out in a few feet of water. I get it. I don't like hockey either. These games, especially the Beast Hunts, cost an enormous amount of money to put on. And the Romans knew that the richest among them could easily sway the populace by staging huge spectacles for the public.

They did try to enact laws and limitations on holding them and on the types of animals that you could use. But in the end, the Romans fell for the spectacle of it all and eventually wound up with a series of ruthless dictators. So glad we're smarter than that. Yeah, they learned that lesson for us. Nice of them. Well, on that note, Cecil, you had to summarize what you've learned in one sentence. What would it be? Hungry Panther that eats a female prisoner is gladiator.

Gladiator. All right, my friend, are you ready for the quiz? Like a lion executing a kelts, I am chomping at the Brit. All right, Cecil, obviously pitting man against beast in a contest to the death for the amusement of spectators is horrible. And we don't do this anymore, except because a Spanish bullfighting, but that's different because the bull always loses. B, the running of the bulls because that's different because idiots always lose. Or see, seriously, what the fuck is happening in Spain?

The jump over babies. I think it's C Tom. It is happening over there. What is happening? All right. So I got one for you C. So the rhino immortalized in poetry that you talked about earlier was beloved by the Roman crowd for his might, but also for the clever one liners that he would utter when he took out an opponent. Absolutely.

Which was his best? A, crocodile B back, B, rhino means no. C, I'll see you in hell, offense. He's going to sort of round it out with a fourth one. or D. Now that's what I call a hippo violation. He always wins me over with a good hippo violation. It's D. Of course. It is. Yeah. Once again, all right.

So the people who are going to write us an angry email or tweet about this episode, A, must have missed the episodes. We did about human massacres in genocides. They must have been vegan like me for the last eight years. See are rethinking their Twitter email right now as they hear this. Aren't they? Or more honestly, D none of the above. It's definitely C they're rethinking their tweet or email right now as they hear this, of course. Oh, you sweet summer child. Oh, D. They're not rethinking how they're getting the rethinking the strategy, not the fact. Sure. No, no, no, no, no, that's what's missing. They won't email us for this one. None of these animals had names. Topsy the elephant had a name.

That's it. All right, well, somehow Eli wins. I don't know. That's right. Whenever. And you know what, Tom, I want to hear an essay from you. All right. Next we do it.

Get out there on a lake and stare into the middle distance for a little while. Get that first paragraph ready. Alright well for Eli, Noah, Cecil and Not Heath. I'm Tom, thank you for hanging out with us today, we'll be back next week and by then I will be an expert on something else. Between now and then you can listen to Cecil and me over a cognitive distance, check out Eli and me on our new-ish show, Dear Old old dads, and get a heaping helping of Eli Noah and Heath that got off the movies, the scathing Atheus, Skeptocrat, and D&D

Minus. If you'd like to help keep this show going, you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com slash citation pod. Or leave us a five star review everywhere you can. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes, connect with us on social media, or check the show notes. Be sure to check out citationpod.com Can I help you?

Yeah, sorry, do you have a change for the meer outside? Does it take four and boys? No, no, just teeth and whatever the coin is this year. This was a bad time to be alive. Sure was, yeah. Take four and boys. Now, now, just teeth and whatever the coin is this year. This was a bad time to be alive.

Sure was, yeah.