Citation Needed - The Battle of Hastings

Episode Date: October 14, 2020

The Battle of Hastings[a] was fought on 14 October 1066 between the Norman-French army of William, the Duke of Normandy, and an English army under the Anglo-Saxon King Harold Godwinson, beginning the Norman conquest of England. It took place approximately 7 miles (11 kilometres) northwest of Hastings, close to the present-day town of Battle, East Sussex, and was a decisive Norman victory. --- Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

And so I said, how do you know the woman didn't back in to me? And what did the cops say? Oh, well, he was a total dick about it, of course. Holy shit, bees! Jesus! Jesus! What the fuck? Hi, hey, Cecil, hey Tom.

Eli, what the hell is this? Oh, it's my pre-episode, shenanigans. How the hell is releasing bees? Oh, it's my uh, pre-episode shenanigans. I'm just, what is it like about? How it? Okay, no, no, no, no. How the hell is releasing bees in the studio even related to this week's episode? Does it make any sense? Yup, yup, I will admit this one was a challenge. But you know, anything for the Battle of Hat things.

Am I right? I got the little... Fuck, hey, stay! Oh, come on! God, I got bees on me now. Oh, hey, hey, things. It's a place in England this week's episode. It's about a place. It's about a battle that happened then. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, yeah, so where's stung the death? Stung the death. Sure, that is that's right. Yep, for sure. That is. That's right. Yep. For sure.

Hello and welcome to Citation Native. The podcast where we choose subject for the single article about it on a Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the internet and that's how it works now. I'm knowing I'm going to be leading a charge this week but you can't do that without an army to back you up. So first up are two men disqualified for command based on their inability to give a succinct order even when the menu item numbered EY and Cecil. Okay, in my defense 42 and a half minus the six is a number. It's just not going to be one.

Numbers are for bins on wine and nothing more. They don't belong in a wine menu under that. Come on. And also joining us tonight are two men who started guarding steaks when I asked them to protect the flames heath and top Oh, I was gonna write something here. I guess I didn't all right, so I'm just gonna Please I had a baby in the worst possible time to have a baby. I don't know. We're still talking about 1066.

I think you're exaggerating with worst possible. Second worst possible. So tell us, Heath, what person plays think concept phenomenon or event? What would be talking about today? We're going to be talking about 1066 part two, battle of hats things. All right. So, Cecil, you read the Wikipedia article by which I mean devoured several graphic novel interpretations over something. Are you ready to finish the tale? I'm ready to cure your dose of blue blood, blue balls. But first, if you missed last week, you should go back and

listen to it because today's shows has a lot of references to it. So go ahead, we'll wait. I'm not going to fucking wait. You guys should have shown it. Let's go. You won't get that joke. You won't get that joke. If you don't listen, harsh the canoe, it crushed it last week. So I know it took me an entire episode to get to the real part of the story that I led off with, but I learned from watching Noah. And hopefully it's going to be worth it here. In the first, you didn't learn from watching. In the first part of this, I mentioned William, the bastard. And he's going to be the main figure in this episode. And before this is over, he will have done something

that no one will accomplish for a thousand years, not Napoleon, not Hitler. Not even Hitler, wow. So according to Cecil, this guy William is more impressive than Adolf. Okay, okay, this is a lot. I mean, I know this is gonna have some European conquering based thing behind it, but without

that formula, that's a weird couple of examples. Yeah. I mean, you could just say that maybe he reached things from the top shelf. That could be another thing that he did that they couldn't do. He offered to throw in on the tip. So William was Duke William of Normandy. He was the son of Robert, the Duke of Normandy, and a woman he was not married to, hence the bastard part. His mother was the daughter of a Tanner, but even though she came from a not so royal background, he still took over

when his dad died. And you know his mom was just unbearable about that every time you saw her, right? She was just like, oh, really? His own blacksmith shop. My son is the king now, but his own shop. Good for him. So while William was a literal bastard, he was also a figurative one, too. No one would call him bastard to his face.

One story I read, he got hissed that the people were in a town were calling him bastard. And this was in a city that he took over. And it's that or he got mad because the townspeople mocked his maternal grandfather's profession of a Tanner. But either way, he got pissed and he chopped the hands and feet off of some or all of the townspeople. It's not weird. He's just arguing about it.

No, technically he never got stumpy Steve. So that thing's hard to get the handguns off. That seems so much shortsighted. That's short everything. Sure, sure. Text revenue is down across the board in North Puckled Church. Unacceptable. Where's the city tax collector?

Oh, well, he bled out and died when you cut off his hands and his feet. Yes, that, right. Well, he shouldn't have made fun of me. No, just sticks and stones that can hurt a man, you know? It's quite right, so you're quite right. Well, what about the assistant tax collector? Well, he did live, but he has to drag himself about on his stumps so it's taking quite a bit longer. No excuses I won't have them. Cause off his elbows and knees

maybe that will speed him up that. I'm sure it will you're a born leader Sire. It's about inspiring the people my good man inspire. It's about keeping my fucking ends and feats worth about. Let's give him a bootstrap. What's he gonna do? He's got nothing to call it. This is great. It's easy to get hold of between his wrist. Come on. You got to admit this is pretty funny. You can't do shit with that. He's in his Trump vote paddling with his stumps as fast as he can. So also William was supposedly a total chunk. He was made fun of again behind his back about his weight.

King Philip of France said that he looked like a pregnant mate about to give her a chance. He was so, so conscious about it that he decided to go on a crash diet that limited his intake of wine to only a certain time of day. And as you can guess, that didn't work out too well and it gave birth to a wine baby or a zinfant. A zinfant. Hey, hashtag cancel kingville. The cancel kingville.

Bam Pino. No, the reason he claimed the throne of England is twofold. The first is that he was related to Edward the confessor distantly. He was the grandson of Edward's maternal uncle. So grand nephew or something, I don't know, it's really confusing. Also, supposedly at one point 15 years before he passed away, Edward the confessor offered the throne to William when he and the Godwins were having a tiff. So he had right by blood and by oath.

Yeah, if you thought the problem with James Charles is that he doesn't have an army to command, you're going to love this fuck. So he makes the decision to try to take the throne, but he needs to convince his nobles that it's a good idea. I mean, the real motivator here is money in land and any noble that accompanies into England, they're going to have, they're going to get lands and be able to split the spoils of war. But they're also comfortable in their own lands across the English channel from a shitty time ending in a shallow grave. But the best thing to do is to play to their

strengths, and that would be great. So he promised them spoils of war, and they all agreed to come with him. Man, see, so I have to admit, the the hella Burton origin story you're writing began a lot earlier. He also got a blessing from Pope Alexander II. Now the Pope is a pretty big deal. Is he? It's good we have you, Sasha, not the finer historical detail. Okay.

Okay. So 30 years after this, the Pope's going to call for volunteers for the first crusade and Europe is going to answer him. So getting the Pope's go ahead, here is a big deal. He either got a ring with a hair on it, supposedly from St. Peter's head, or he got a banner from the Pope that someone could wave in battle. Oh, yeah, those, I mean, those are easy to confuse. But regardless, he had the pubs blessing to go be the king of England. Uh, dear, ho. Thanks for the ring with the hair, I think. I have no idea what's happening now. Are we going steady or regardless, please send, I guess, some branded merch, if I'm

allowed to, I'm not here. Now in order to get across the channel, William needed ships. Any needed lots of them. He wasn't just going to be carrying his troops, but he also had to carry their horses and all the non-combatants that support an army with horses. But you just couldn't go to the ship store and buy a bunch of you ships, you had to build them. So that's what he did. He started building them. And now one source puts the number of ships that William built at 3,000, but there is no way that you need 3,000 ships for an army of 7 to 10,000 troops and a supporting cast. That's like five people per boat. That doesn't mean any sense.

Well, shit, and you know they always oversell like five people per boat. Doesn't mean any sense. Bullshit. And you know they always over sell those things. They're not a middle seat left anywhere. Yeah, right. Right. The ship building process is a slow one. So it sounds like he got started right away in January after Edward the Confessor kicked it.

And he built all the way through most of September to build enough boats. You also can't go building a fleet across the channel for England during a succession crisis and just whistle and pretend you aren't doing anything. Harold Godwin's sin got wind of this and he knew William was going to attack. So he basically camped on the southern part of the island waiting for William to cross. What? These, but these po' no's it dude come on.

These are, we're doing a pro Trump Lake parade. You always need extra books. You never have one of trust me. Trust me. True. Yeah. William didn't rush right over. He saw that there was what was up and he waited it out.

Now, some people blame it on the web because crossing the channel in good weather can be a bit hairy and a modern boat, let alone an old timey barrel with a sail on it. But the timing of a few things makes a lot of people think that this was William's plan all along. Supposedly he was visited by Tostig who was trying to secure allies to march against England and it doesn't seem like a big stretch for him to let Harold Godwin send and Harold Hardrod a fight it out and he swoops in and beats up the recovering winner of that fight. Okay, this happened in my game of risk with Eli and Anna.

It was not pretty. Okay. I told you to go feed all she has mom. She's bound to hold you. Yeah. That's going to be a hostage situation. I have your child now. Williams army came from his home province of Normandy, of course,

but also other regions of modern day France, such as Brittany and also Flanders, which is part of modern day Belgium, joined forces. He had about seven to 12,000 soldiers, which included one to 3,000 cavalry, and they boarded their ships on September 27th, two days after the battle of Stanford Bridge, and they landed in England on September 28th. All right, well, the story on the other side of this break is so damn good. It was worth spending 150% of it on the show. So we're going to keep the break free from where you'll be back after a little apropos of nothing. Alright, man, listen up!

Today we fight one of the most important battles in English history. Those of you who die today will be remembered as heroes and our victory will last the ages. Uh, excuse me, sir. Uh, sir. Yes, uh, 11th century peasant Noah. Uh, yeah, just a quick correction on what you said there. I don't think our victory will last, you know, the ages. So it's just, what's the vibe of it? No, it just seems that the national borders are priced You know what you said there. I don't think I think we were last You know the ages What's

It just seems that the national borders are priced to letify over the next couple hundred years and this battle, you know It's just being a little less important by then Most people Yes, but the king will remember I mean I'm I'm guessing that the king by then will probably be more of a figure And they like super Porsche people are probably still care, but that's only because you know, there's 14th cousin or something Okay, okay, mr. Smarty pants and what will remain of these battles is glorious Sock or teams that don't like each other very much Very well then men do it for

Soccer teams that don't like each other very much And we're back with the promise that I won't try for any more accents this week. So see you soon. When we last left off, William the fat asshole was sent. He rolled up hopelessly out of breath. I'm gonna let you pick up a thread from there. Very accurate. So, William lands and he starts to basically take shit over. He builds a wooden castle at Hastings and then he starts to pillage.

Now, this kind of pillaging is pretty strategic. First, it feeds his army, but it also denies that resource to the enemy. It also shows some serious weaknesses on Harold's part if he can't just put an end to that shit. It's weird out convincing. I'm strong enough to protect you from me is as an artist. See, so I feel a little nervous about a wooden castle. I feel like someone needs a three little pigs refresher. And hey, Castle didn't do well. So while William is trying to gain a foothold in the South of England, Harold Godwinson is

on his way back to London after defeating the invaders up there. And he finds out Williams landed. Now keep in mind that his trip just marched almost 200 miles about four days before fought a knockdown drag-ass battle with 15,000 Norsemen, and now they're marching back again to get back to London. He cuts the force marching a bit of slack and he only covers 27 miles a day instead of 45. Still, walking that much in a day would not make for a well-rested army. Okay, everyone, great fight with those Vikings who formed Fultront, even though they didn't

have any armor on top. Who's going to fight the real army, huh? It's the big one. Awesome. Harold's army made an attempt to surprise William, but the scouts warned him that Harold was approaching, and he left his new wooden castle to meet Harold on the field of battle at Hastings 954 years ago today. Nice.

All right, Cecil, just a question for you though. How was the slope of the battlefield? What was the angle? Thank you for asking Keith. And really, it's very nice you to ask. The battlefield was actually quite pitched. It was in favor of Harold. Harold was on top of a slope and he had the high ground.

William's men would have to climb it to attack and that was going to be an uphill battle. I had to say it. But William did not want to wait. Harold's army was not at full strength. Thank you only Keith. And it was not at full strength as not all of his troops came back from Stanford bridge. And in fact, some of his troops still hadn't come back from when he sent him home before the battle of Stanford bridge.

And the longer William waited, the more troops were going to fill in the ranks. God, that's like the worst like, I'm going to have to ask you to come in on Sunday, court of meeting, right? Really is. Really is. Okay, Cecil, I'm curious again. Got another question for you. Okay.

Sure. Any chance there's a quilt made by a five year old that helps out the ratio of the archery power. There. Yeah, there is absolutely. There was a lack of archers on the English side. That was according to sources, to a couple sources as well as the buy you tap. Five-year-olds blanket. Yeah. Great. Yeah.

Okay. I'm going to go over to that. I'm more of an embroidered cloth. Really. Nobody asks you anything. No, no one will stop you. No one said, please weigh in. Trying to get back those tapestry pedals. Yeah. Thank you. Our picture on drop six thousand dollars.

That's really so. So we owe everybody so much money now. We don't even know how to get it. William had some archers. This is back to the archers thing. William had some archers in Crossbowman, but Harold did not. The archers in this battle actually don't play a huge role like they did in Agencour. It could be that the reason that there are so few archers on the English side is that

he might have sent one, those people home before everything kicked off. But right, they're like, no, no, no, we have long distance weapons. It'll be fine. We can be home. We can't borrow. I can work from home during this. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

Join the battle by Zoom. The Normans set up at the bottom of the hill and they marched upward toward the English. Both of these armies had set up a shield wall. The Norman archers let loose, but they were shooting uphill and that makes it hard to arc over the shield wall with a lot of accuracy. So the arrows were blocked by the thick wooden shields of the defending army. When the two shield walls clashed, the defending forces attacked the invaders with throne weapons, javelin sticks, whatever

would fly. Bucket sand. Oh, my God. So I'm not sure. I'm not sure this had much effect, but it was important enough for the sources to note at least in several places. At a certain point in the battle, a rumor starts that William the bastard is dead. So when the rumor finally reaches

William, he takes off his helmet and he rides back and forth behind his lines to show his troops that the rumors of his death were greatly exaggerated. The next day he's riding around naked like see, it's average. It seems weird that there are even opportunities to share goss on the battlefield, right? He really ironic if he got an arrow in the neck while he was doing that. He's like, okay, now I'm dead, but I'm buzzing. The point stands. The cavalry at that point, head up to the hill to try to punch a hole in the line, and

it also fails. At a certain point in the battle, the invading Norman cavalry decide to fall back a little. When they do, the English troops think they're retreating because they're being routed. Now, this could have been because the troops were conscripts and they were inexperienced in some way, but they start to chase the retreating Normans and they fall out of formation and this basically leaves them susceptible. The troops that charge forward were quickly dispatched. No, you don't.

Rookie move. You don't break your volatron before you conjure the giant space sword. That's not right. Exactly. That's what makes me so off. Seeing that this works once, William decided to do it again, but this was after a break. This is a quote from the Wikipedia article that I love. Quote, a low probably occurred in

early afternoon and a break for rest and food would probably have been needed. And quote, and I wonder who the halftime entertainment was for the side of it. They get share. Yeah, probably. That's a good call. I love considering the logistics of that because like somebody had to be the first to suggest it, right? Like, guys, we're gonna be fighting all day. I'm gonna be hungry. We're all gonna be hungry. You know what, make it a little blood sugar, do you? I mean, it's a little blood sugar.

What, I love the idea of them sort of like setting their weapons down where they were and then they go back and pick them back up where they were so they could call like, yeah. We're in advance this far. like you know, this far. So William orders a feign retreat from the cavalry a couple times. And it works. The defending forces think they have this one, the invading armies on its heels and then

bam, we just killed all your fucking charging dipshits. Take that. You hours later, the entire English army is just covered in tar sitting in a briar pad? You nailed it. No, we wait. Now, you have to understand this is how the sources are depicting this, a fained flight. I mean, it could very well be that the troops started to get routed and they fled in another contingent of them or those same troops were able to make a, like sort of a Bob Ross happy

accident. But the sources say it was planned. This was, however, a tactic of the Normans at the time of the battle of Hastings, so many historians agree with the source material. Okay, is anyone else picturing a somehow more nerdy sea-silly yelling at a badly drawn blanket? All right. Okay, I think everybody's listening to that right now. And one other tidbit that was kind of interesting from the story. It was so interesting it was written down in the source material. Two or three of William's horses got killed underneath him. He would just stand up off the murdered horse, dust himself off and find a new one, like

a 1066 Mr. Bean after 20 years. Well, sure, but by the end of this thing, he owed like three different people his kingdoms. often find a new one, like a 1066 Mr. Bean after 2035. Well, sure, but by the end of this, they healed like three different people as kingdoms. So yeah, that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's these fame flights and the death of Harold that bring about the end of the battle.

The sources and the Bayou tapestry are not clear on how he died. About 20 years after the battle, it's reported that Harold got hit in the eye with an arrow. Let it do it. And, and that may have gotten taken off the tapestry on the tapestry quote. It shows a figure holding an arrow sticking out of his eye next to a fallen fighter with a sword over both as a statement. Here King Harold has been killed.

And quote, I know I've just pictured somebody like moving it up and down in the arms. One contemporary account says Harold died fighting William on the battlefield, but that seems like total made a bullshit. Regardless, his death was again a real turning point in the battle. And his leaderless army pulled off a retreat, a real turning point in the battle and his leaderless army pulled off a retreat, a real retreat during which a lot of men were killed. Somewhere between 2500 and 6500 men on the English side died that day. Harold Godwin sends loyal house members gather around his corpse and fought to the end. There's a lot of factors on why Harold Godwin's in loss that day. He had a superior position and he probably would have won

if his troops hadn't gotten greedy and chased it after the fleeing Normans. Either way, his commanders did not stop that and that was a huge factor. His army also just fought a battle in the north 200 miles away two weeks prior and that battle, he called ass to get to. So his army was moving 20 plus miles a day or fighting at the time and he also did not have the cavalry or archers that William had. Ooh, see some more question for you. Okay. Do your sources agree on the extent to which the archery ratio was a factor in all this?

Thank you for asking, Keith. While a lot of sources downplay the use of archery in the battle, a few sources upplay the use of archery on Harrow. So yeah sources upplay the use of archery on Harold. So yeah, right now, we don't be done from an arrow to the face. It's definitely one of the matter for a share as a factor in his death. After the battle, Harold's mother is purported to have offered her son's weight in gold. If William would give her Harold's dead body back. William refused and he either chucked it in the ocean or he barred it off a cliff nearby. See, she should have offered Williams'

weight in gold. We know that way. She won that rich. William and that one got the body back. As of today, they have no idea where he's buried or what really happened to his body, not that we should really care at all because once you squish the life out of it, bodies really aren't all that useful, but they really do spend a lot of time talking about this in the article. Man, I don't fucking hate anybody so much that I wouldn't happily tread their vanquished cyclops corpse

for a couple hundred pounds of gold. I would trade everyone in this call for three Buffalo Nichols in a stick of a hundred hundred. My first year waiting the whole. Yeah. After the battle, the English didn't just give William the throne either. The powerful nobles that were left nominated

and crowned a new guy. So William basically captured and burned his weight all around London, securing supplies and raising the land until the people there said, okay cool, you're the new guy. On Christmas day in Westminster Abbey in 1066, William the bastard now with a much cooler nickname, William the Conqueror was crown king of England. William the Conqueror had pulled off a feet that would not be repeated

for a thousand years. He conquered England from the outside. Now you totally need immigrants to do that. You can't do that. or you need a bad coffee picked up in Wuhan. So yeah. Or say 5G. See, so what's going to happen in 2066 in England? What do you know? So what do you know? And just like an immigrant, William refused to learn the language. Any brought all his weird culture with him. I mean, England had its share of influences throughout the ages, the Celts, the Romans, the Anglo-Saxons, the Scandinavians, all of these forces conquered England and changed that culture into something of a melting pot of getting your ass kicked. But now William adds Normandy to that. Ed's France to the culture of the year.

Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah. It's 20 years after he ascended the throne, William the Conqueror was killed by a saddle in a tragic horse accident. Yeah. No, that's written correctly. This is amazing. He's riding the horse. It rears up.

The saddlehorn hit him in his huge chunker gut and it gave him an internal injury. They died from a few weeks later. After his death, they didn't have like a piano-sized coffin and they tried to shove them in the one they had, like a running late traveler repacking their suitcase at the TSA or whatever. And at did not go well and his body blew up, quote, spreading a disgusting odor throughout the church. And, whoa, we great way to go. Dignity.

In retrospect, jumping up and down, on top of the coffin was a bad choice. That's it. That's not me. No one please open a window. That's not me. William the Conqueror is the ancestor of more than 25% of the English population.

Every English monarch from him to Queen Elizabethus has descended. And many people believe that 1066 is a real turning point in English history, with no more Scandinavian influence on the throne and a new Norman king, England paid more attention and was far more involved in mainland European politics and the events than they ever were before. And that would remain so until Brexit. All right. So if you had to summarize what you'd learned in one sentence, what would it be?

Splurge for a bigger casket, I guess would be a sh- Definitely the right word. And are you ready for the quiz? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Quiz me on the history of white people. Go ahead. All right. And are you ready for the quiz? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Quiz me on the history of white people. Go ahead. All right. Cecil, William the bastard is obviously a great nickname. But which of the following is a real nickname for other leaders in history?

Hey, I signed the fart. The Charles the Great Asparagus the Gaul. Or see, I've are the boneless. Charles the Great Asparagus the Gal. We're seeing. I've are the boneless. Okay. Um, I got to say against because I wanted to be true, I sighed the fart has to be, it's got to be real, right? It's yes, it is secret answer D. All of the above.

Now you have to do a fucking essay on ice to the part. I want to hear about that. That's amazing. All right, Cecil, becoming the ruler of England is worth all of this fuss because you totally get which of the below totally real powers and privileges. Hey, you can drive without a license, although you have to wait a long time after 1066.

Good night. Invitational. Be, you own all the swans, all the whales and all the dolphins. What? Or see, you can fire the entire government of Australia. I used to think, I used to think that Queen England was a fucking totally ceremonial position, but if you can own all the swans, whales and dolphins, I want in. I'm going to assassinate that bitch and take over. That's fucking amazing. I'm going to pick all of the above. It is all of the above. I love that you could fire the entire

government of all strife. I was actually with Tom when he found out that the queen owns all the swans. It is top five moments of watching him crumple to the floor with laughter. So he did the thing where you run around in a circle while you're on the ground. He had to do him ran. He ran. He circle ran. All right. It's easy. So one more for you. What was William the Amputator's favorite movie? favorite movie. Hey, a sever ending story. Stump the yard. The princess, Brad. Oh, farewell. The arms miss the list. Let's do. It's got to be sever ending story that is fucking comic genius right there. Amazing. I'm sorry. No, it was princess bride because you know, because yeah, yeah, yeah, that's good.

That's good. Yeah, I was thinking that he was a Ted Cruz like character. All right, so obviously the winner this week is Heath. Heath, you get to pick next week's essayist. All right, let's, uh, let's have you do it. No, you're up next. Alright, I'll do it all in my English accent. Go for season Eli Heathen. Tom, I'm no-a-thigging to rank out with us today.

We're gonna be back next week and by then I'll be an expert on something else. If you can't make it that long without more us, you can hear more Tom and season line cognitive dissonance. And more Eli Heathen myself on skating aides, god off of movies, and the skeptic crowd, and D&D, might as well as you can probably hear more about me on a several upcoming true crime podcast of these puckers in Georgia. Don't start wearing goddamn masks. And if you'd like to help keep this show going, you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com slash citation pun or leave us five star review anywhere

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