Citation Needed - The Battle of Thermopylae

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

The Battle of Thermopylae (/θərˈmɒpɪliː/ thər-MOP-i-lee; Greek: Μάχη τῶν Θερμοπυλῶν, Máchē tōn Thermopylōn) was fought in 480 BC between the Achaemenid Persian Empire under Xerxes I and an alliance of Greek city-states led by Sparta under Leonidas I. Lasting over the course of three days, it was one of the most prominent battles of both the second Persian invasion of Greece and the wider Greco-Persian Wars. Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

Definitely the mouse drive that bam bam, that sound it's so iconic man I love the R2 get shocked sound that scream like when he flies backwards and all the shit flies Yeah, yeah, yeah, so good totally, but I am a generous guy no Deeper his voice is deeper. It's a nice room. It's hard to get my voice deeper with this This chain hanging from my nipple. I gotta be honest. Take me there. Hey guys, it's what's going on. Hey later. Oh, hey Noah, hey see, so we were just getting ready

for episode 300 by recreating scenes from the 2006 film. 300. Oh, okay. But why is Heath in a gold banana warmer? Cause he's zirxies. Why? Because tall. Tall he's zirxies. Why? Because tall. Okay, okay, fair.

Fair. Is it fair? Cecil? Is it? It's a white. Why does? Why does Tom have a horn on his face? Oh, that's the closest we could get to a rhino.

Moooo. Again, again, fair. Okay, all right, but, but, but the movie isn't anything like what actually happened in today's story. Oh, oh, no, don't worry about it, Noah, we're just doing it because of the number 300. It's not about today's topic. But it is that the Battle of Thermopoly is the story of 300. Oh, I thought it was like a temperature-based board game or something. What?

Moooooo! Exactly, thank you, Dino. You know, you could just read what we're doing, you know. Honestly, I'm just really disappointed I accidentally did something accurate. Moo! Well, if it makes you feel any better, getting better at time. This isn't it all accurate. Nice! Mission accomplished then. You're getting better, Tom. This isn't at all accurate. Nice.

Mission accomplished then. Okay, so I did not have to get my nipple pierced at Clair's, is that what you're saying? Artists sacrifice for their art, eat. Mo. Thank you, Tom. It was weird. Hello and welcome, Citation Needed! The podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend

We are experts because this is the internet and that's how it works now. I'm Heath and this is podcasting and I'm going Somebody has to do one I am joined of course by, by my failanks of shirtless, oily, very pale white guys. We have four men who put the light in hot light, Cecil. Noah, Eli and Tom. I mean, I'm sure I'm pale are gonna have to be like those eyeless nudes they find in caves and shit.

Yeah. Yeah. I got a raccoon in here. It's a new end time. It's behind the raccoon. Hoplight is gonna be the name for my new non-alcoholic beer company. Nice.

I'm like, it was. All right, no, what person plays thing concept phenomenon or event? We're going to be talking about today. Today we're talking about the Battle of Thermopoly. And what led you to choose this topic? It's episode 300 and I couldn't help it. Ooooooooh, 300. Fuck yeah.

Yeah, alright, so what was the Battle of Thermopoly? It's history's most famous example of a group of people going, you know, if you think about it, we lost so good that time it should count as a win. The battle of Thermopy was a three day battle between the Persian Empire and a coalition of Greek armies that culminated in one of the most famous last stands in all of ancient history. In fact, I've heard it described as the oldest actual historical event that the average American knows about. And I think that might actually be accurate. In fact, I've heard it described as the oldest actual historical event that the average American

knows about. And I think that might actually be accurate. Oh, and the foundation of Carthage by the Phoenicians and what would be modern day Tunisia is just chop liver, such bullshit, man. It's bullshit. Yeah, fucking genesis. You hear that, Heath? We're just one homoerotic racist and anachronistic depiction of rank

choice voting away from paradise in this nation. Pretty excited about that. Now, of course, as with any historical event that's been so omnipresent for so long, a lot of myths have glombed onto the actual stories such that it's hard to separate out the fact from the fiction sometimes. And while the average American may be aware of this event, I'd say that most of them probably have some egregious misconceptions about it as well. Like, for example, did you know that the entire three-day battle actually happened at normal speed?

And are you serious? Yeah. So you're furious. Over the course of this episode, we can clear up a few of those misconceptions. Yeah, I don't even know about that. No, I... You all know how time slows down when you're like really bored or stabbed with a sword. No, that's the truth, yeah. Right, it might have felt that way. So, okay. So this battle is actually the opening

salvo for the second Persian invasion of Greece. And generally speaking, when it comes to invasions, if there's a second one, it's because the first one didn't go great, right? I'm looking at you, golfer one. We crushed that, mission accomplished. Yeah. Shocked off. The first invasion started with a Greek colony was like, hey, we want to revolt against the Persians. Well, help, well, help.

The Athens was like, you know, we got nothing on our calendars until the Wednesday after next, why the fuck not? And this did not go well for the Greeks. The Persians decided to invade Greece as punishment. Now, I should interject here that one of the most famous scenes connected to the Battle of Thermopoly, especially by people who only know it

from that God awful Zack Snyder movie, actually happened here. I'm so mad, I didn't know it God awful Zack Snyder movie actually happened here. I'm so I didn't know it was a Zack Snyder movie and I really like that movie. So of course this is the bit where Darius sends adversaries to all the major great city states and ask for a token of submission in the form of earth and water and the Spartans kick them down a well and say you'll find both there. And then presumably just drink dead guy water from that arm. That's so gross. Um, it's so gross.

No, the Athenians who provided themselves on being a bit more civilized in Spartans held the trial and sentenced the emissaries to be thrown into a well. So that was. Yeah. And again, that was all at regular speed. Yeah. That's really disappointing to hear. Turns out Leonidas just kicked that guy to the well and he was like, oh, right, this is part of, ah, he's gone. Skribed, Skribed, right it down with slow mo. And I said my thing first.

Apparently, I sound like Bernie Sanders. I don't know why. Interesting. He's bad at accents. There's so much emphasis on murder. They really should have focused on their wellness. Oh, Jesus. Thank you, wellness. Wellness. This is what I'm going to say. Where's the shit? Shit.

Shit. It's dumb. Shit. It's shit. Shit. It's a year. Thank you. Take the shit from me. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Somebody loves me. What do we always say? Take the shit. It's All right. So suffice to say Athens agrees say no in dramatic fashion and then enter a mind or that international diplomacy used to be even tougher than it is now. The Spartans

tried to appease the Persian king by sending two of their guys for him to throw into a well. Well, now in a portion of tears, I need volunteers. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Now an important turn for those two guys and pretty much nobody else, Darius decided not to exercise that up.

He was like, what, they sent me two guys? I don't know, that kind of ruins it, right? What am I digging a well just for that now? Come on. No. So instead, he had Bade's grace. Ultimately, though, his first effort at an invasion has turned back by the Athenians in the legendary battle of marathon. Yeah, everyone signed up for that battle on New Year's, but only three bloody nippled weirdos actually showed up. So I was in there. Yeah, it's somehow all of ancient Greece got conquered by like three Kenyans with 11 foot tall legs.

It was a little bit more. No, okay, so, so Daria is fully intended on invading Greece again, but better this time. In fact, he supposedly made one guy's full-time job Reminding him after every meal that he still needed to punish Athens Okay, a picture just like angry teenager Darius getting mad about that reminder guy after like half a day right guys like I Was lunch you need to punish I will punish Athens. I was going to do it before you asked me. No, it looks like I wasn't going to do it. Now, I don't want to do it right now.

Well, Alas, he never did do it because before he was able to raise an army for a second, go have it. Darius died and the job fell to his son and air zirksies the first. Zirksies just looking at his dead dad wondering what the string on his finger is for like what the fuck is that? The post-beal guy is like, it is my time. That was my time. So of course, if you want to invade Greece from Persia, the first thing you got to do is get an army there and that's tricky because there's water in the way.

I know there's a huge naval component to this first invasion and the second invasion that I'm going to ignore for the sake of privacy. But it actually, the naval part in the first invasion went worse than the Battle of Marathon. So Zerksis was really standing off, just about loading his army into ships and floating them over the Aegean Sea. Instead, he ordered a bridge to be built over the helispot, which we know today as the Darden House. And that's a huge fucking bridge.

Right? Like, today there's one bridge that spans it and it's like three miles long. There are narrower points, sure, but regardless, it's a huge river to span with like fifth century BCE technology. Okay, so for the record, the Persians are building bridges and not killing diplomats while the Greeks are like,

ha, we figured out how to fucking each other's butt in brown fatalities. See this. and not killing diplomats while the Greeks are like, we figured out how to fuck each others but the brown fattening. She is. She is. She is. She is. You're gonna make a movie about how when we won.

What? Right, yes, exactly. Now, okay, so famously, the first bridging effort fails. Yeah, if I remember from the Brooklyn Bridge episode, this is a problem that doesn't get much better for a really long time. It's so long. It's so long, man. It's so long't get much better for a really long time. It's so long, man.

It's so long, man. It's so long, man. It's so long, man. Now it's hardly worth mentioning this failure, except that Zerksy's reaction is so amazing. According to Herodidus, who's account is like 80% of what we know about this battle, Zerksy's had the crew that designed and built the bridge executed, and then he had the river itself punished. He ordered it to be whipped 300 times and pierced

with red hot irons. And yes, yes, yes, yeah, exactly. And as they were whipping the ocean, his soldiers were to castigate it too. Here's the quote according to Herodidus. It's probably my favorite in all of ancient history, quote, bitter water, jerksies the king will pass over you,

whether you won it or not. In accordance with justice, no one offers you sacrifice for you are a turbid and bright. You're a bipper. Okay. Got a little long for the chant. I love when the chanting at like a protest gets too ambitious.

Nobody's getting the cadence right. Like how are you doing that like the turr water Cersei's the Passover no No, it's we know where this bridge will go. Just got to spam this water flow Did they think is they were standing there plunging hot irons into water to Punish it they turned to each other and they were like hey,ing hot irons into water to punish it, they turned to each other and they were like, hey, at least it's not the electoral college.

If I write that, I'm fucking stupid. Now, but ultimately so they build two pontoon bridges and at the same time, they did a huge fucking canal across the isthmus of Mount Athos harder to say than you might think, which will allow the Persian fleet to bypass the spot to fuck them over so hard in the first invasion. Both of these are incredible feats of engineering by the standard of today, let alone in 480 BCE when they were doing it. So the army heads out and crosses the Hellesmont with Zerxes personally leading the way. Now obviously you can't build bridges and dig giant canals without people noticing.

So for years leading up to this invasion, the Athenians are preparing for war. Both they and the Persians are hard at work winning the loyalty or failing that, at least a neutrality of other Greek city states. And by the time the Zurich seasons on the march, they put together an alliance with Sparta, Corinth, and a couple, like a dozen minor city states, which is actually a fairly impressive feat of diplomacy

at this point in history, given the fact that like many of those city states in the alliance were actually at war with one another at the time. Guys, we're all doing a bunch of different groups with their own leaders and their own standards and stuff. It's going to have several drawbacks, one of which is that it can't mobilize as quickly as any single army of the same size, right? So when they first get word that Xerxes is crossed the Hellless spot, they realize that

by the time they could get their whole army in the field to face them, that he'd already be there. So they settled on a delaying strategy. Between the spot where the Persian army was and the spot where they were going, they'd have to pass this narrow pass called Thermopoly, also known as the hot gates after nearby hot springs.

So even an overwhelming advantage in numbers could be minimized by just a few ranks of hotplights. It's like, in modern terms, it's like not having enough votes for the House members to vote you in a speaker for the first fourteen times. Let's say 14. Those were practically a lot of similarities between this story and that one. I'm just picturing the honeymooning couple just trying to relax in the hot springs that they're moppally and an army of Persians shows up to fight.

Everyone has a six pack. The new groom's just trying to sink into the water and bear us. Like what? I like wearing my tunic in the hot springs. What? I saw this hold my arms up in the air like this and a little bit back. It's normal. It's relaxing. this in a little bit. It's relaxing. Now look, I know that Cecil mentioned the angles of some spears once, five years ago, and it's been taken shit. Thank you so much. But even with the risk of eternal indignities, just stare at me right in the face. We have to talk about the topography here a bit because the terrain actually plays something of a starring role in this story. Yeah, don't worry. Now that you've clarified that you have to talk about the topography, we're all gonna be super cool.

Okay, good. Good, that was my hope. Now, it's so so quite the cramped highway-sized pass that we're often led to believe it is. The narrowest point from when I was reading was probably about a hundred meters wide. To be clear, that is far wider than you could reasonably defend with a line of hoplits.

But the ground was marshy and hard to pass on both sides. So the only spot where you could like get chariots in cavalry through was like a far more constricted damn your highway-sized spot in the middle. Okay. Just Leonardo's yelling out orders, fill up the whole space. What? It's kind of muddy on the sides. Okay.

Put up stanchions. Maybe a sign that says wet. I don't know. And do you want us to stand like an angle? Because there's going to be some nerd in the far future who's really interested in these little good buts, man, really interested. Oh, actually, sorry, sir, it's all very confusing. The protractor won't actually be invented until 1801. So, this is gonna take a minute. This is gonna take a minute. I'm gonna get a minute.

He's a minute, nicely done. Oh, nice. Nice. Oh, no. Clever. No, very clever. That joke had several degrees. Oh, yeah. Oh, I thought it was a cute one

Now to be clear the reason there are only 300 Spartans in this story is because the fucking game was on like the story is usually emphasized the religious nature of this or that ongoing ceremony but this invasion happened during the Olympics and nobody wanted to leave until they found out who won the fucking no way like rock hockey tournament So Leonidas and his famous contingent were just the guys who drew the short straws and weren't on the Spartan rock hockey team, I guess. That's not a lie. But they said to me, right? Yeah, but they said a much smaller force that they could have because they were kind of busy at the moment.

I said, dear, that I would take the garbage out when the bulls game is over. Okay. Yes. That's what was war. So they only got the Spartans who hated sports. They're just sent to death in a mud tread over boy god zirxes and they're like, at least we don't have to watch the sports ball in my right. Now, of course, the 300 Spartans were far from alone here. They were reinforced along the way by thousands of additional troops to the point That by the time he reaches the hot gates Leonidas is leading an army of 7,000 people. That is a fuck ton more than 300

To be fair though, it's way to fuck less than Xerxes army to a much way the fuckier degree Right? Now we don't actually know how big the person army is, and the ancient sources are no help, because Herodotus might as well say it's 11 D billiard, right? His actual claim is 2.6 million military personnel and an equal number of support personnel.

Yeah, that's fucking silly. There's no goddamn way that any empire of the day could muster or supply or move an army anywhere near that big Just one ancient guy with one of those thumb clicker counters yelling at everyone not to move around so much like hey Can you God damn it 11 15 19 fuck man So now the estimate so that fuck around a well

I have to do the topography I He took my clicker so so the estimate from modern scholars varies quite a bit But they generally fall in the range of 120 to 300,000 soldiers. Now, as it's near as I can tell though, those are estimates of the largest sized forced jerksies could have realistically mustered given like the logistical capabilities of the time, the size of the population, the wealth of the empire, etc. In other words, they're not direct estimates of how big his army was so much as how big his army could feasibly be. What's what? We don't know what percentage of that army was dedicated to fighting Leonidas. Leave it to know it is skeptic 300 men versus 2 million down to, I don't know, man, it sounds

pretty close. So, but what we do know though, is that the Greeks were significantly outnumbered, right? Like by a lot, like, like possibly by as much as 40 to one, but almost certainly by at least 20 to one. But what the grease lacked in manpower and arrows, they made up for an abs dramatic yells and slow motion beef cake shots. All right. Well, as of now, Zerksy is still 30 feet tall, and he has a team of clan wizards with cartoon grenadeballs. That's official. I'll see what happens with all that.

Let's do it. But first, quick break, some opera bovna. And then the United East was like earth and water you'll find plenty down there and then boom We kicked the guy right into the well. Oh, man. Yeah admittedly that's pretty cool But I still don't understand why he had to pick our well. Oh god. I mean it's right in the center of town a cliff Kick him off the cliff into the ocean, man. Yeah, obviously, but what's he gonna say? Oh, that's an interesting offer. Would you like to discuss it on a nearby cliff?

Okay, oh god, yeah, hilarious. Okay, do you see the guy down there? Oh, I see him, I see him. This dude is messed up. Yeah, well the king kicked him down a well. Can you like grab him or something? Oh, fuck, can you grab him down a well. Can you like grab him or something? Oh, oh Yeah, oh god What what's like trying to hug and egg someone dropped off a building?

Okay, thank you for that vivid metaphor. No, you're welcome. Get me out of here. I go up Stop eating fucking fatta and I'll pull you out. Hey guys. Hey dude is that just a water all bloody down there Yeah, I guess so. Oh, yeah big time bloody down here five What I was gonna make soup tonight Well, it's gonna taste like blood man. Yeah, damn it How bad ass was it when he said the thing though? Oh, I thought I was pretty cool. That was pretty cool totally cool, that was pretty cool. Totally cool, man. Mm. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. And we're back. When we left off, a bunch of Greeks got stuck working a double shift on Super Bowl Sunday, and about 11 billion billions of versions are gonna show up at the restaurant now. Great, what happened next? No, it's pretty close. All right, so Zerxes Army is barren down on them,

but Leonidas is 300 Spartans, and his 6,700 various Greeks that popular history, largely ignores, reached Thermopoly first, and they show up with a few advantages, and his 6,700 various Greeks that popular history largely ignores reached Thermopoly first and they show up with a few advantages right beyond the apps in the dramatic yelts that I mentioned before the Frank. First of all, Greek Hoplates way better armored than the average person show way better armored than the average Persian soldier.

The Persian army was built to big like to fight big set piece battles in wide open areas against enemies that relied heavily on cavalry. Greek armies on the other hand were built to fight other Greek armies more or less toe to toe. The terrain heavily favored that kind of fighting. Okay, no fair. At least some of you guys are supposed to be on horses. Oh, this is bullshit. This is bullshit. I'm tagging in the Rhino fuck this. No. So more than that, they had the home turf advantage. And yes, that means that like they're more aware of the lay of the land and they're better acclimated to the climate and shit like that.

But it also means that they're closer to their supplies, right? The Persian army has this huge supply line to deal with. And they can't just park their enormous army in one place and count on there being enough open land to graze their horses and definitely this army has to keep moving to stay viable, which means that if they can't advance, they have to retreat. A degree of army on the other hand could occupy the past at Thermopoly more or less indefinitely. Cool, yeah. Like Eli coming to a complete stop at the end of the entrance.

Hi. This is about turned around. Need to congratulate myself for being such a brave boy. He thought I was a security man. For all the tactics and advantages that the area offered to Leonidas, there was one huge weakness, a mountain pass that led across the Highland parallel to the hot gates that could be used to outflank them. And now apparently this route wouldn't have been sufficient to take the whole army through was too narrow and rocky to take like their big supply wagons and their cavalry and should

over, but it would be more than enough to get infantry around behind the Spartans. Right. You're not getting your giant flesh demons in shackles over that. Right. Big pin in that for later. No, that's that. That is historically accurate. Yes, they will not bring any giant flesh demons and shackles over that right. Big pin in that for later. No, that's that. That is historically accurate. Yes, they will not bring any giant flesh demons and shackles over that pass.

Oh, gone. But to be clear, the Greeks knew about the past and they defended it. Lee and I just positioned a detachment of a thousand men to block it before the Persians ever got close. Yeah, but one of them looked like Quattro from total recall all grown up. And he was like, he was super pissed about the Spartan state sponsored eugenics policy that they had. So it's a whole thing.

It's not entirely accurate. I guess I'm angry. So, so anyways, so Zerksy's army finally arrives at the hot gates. And his first move is to send out an adversary to ask if they'd rather have money than get killed. Okay. Well, since I know there's a battle that follows, I definitely also know none of my ancestors were there making these decisions. Not of Spartan lineage.

So they offer actually, you know, it's nobody's ancestors were at this particular So they offer Lionel Leonidas a bunch of land and future military aid. And all he had to do was hand over his weapons. And this is, of course, wouldn't Leonidas famously utter's Moulin Lava, which is the motto of the Greek army to this day and roughly translates to, you can have my spear when you pry it from my cold dead hand. Okay, that's a lot for just Moulin Lommy, right? Well, so at some point, they were like, all right, new language, pretty new language. Uh, here we focus mostly on

spear stuff, right? This is Sparta. So, uh, let's see, first word, I'm thinking, you can have my spear win you. And that'll be a mole. Okay? We'll have to a good start. Okay, it's literally closer to come get them, but yeah, so something like that. Okay. We'll have to a good start. It's okay. It's literally closer to come get them, but yeah, something like that. Yeah. So this is. So this is.

I'm ruined it. I'm ruined it. I'm ruining everything. Do more typography. So this goes on for a couple of days. Zerksy's will send somebody along with a slightly better offer. Then last time, his partners will say something, Pithy and badass rints repeat. So I'm just going to write down the number I'm thinking on this piece of parchment and slide it over

to 300 on the scroll it back. So the whole time, of course, Zerksies is arranging his armies, reinforcing his camps, et cetera. And on the fifth day, he attacks. First he orders 5,000 archers to fire on the Greek position, which is damn near one archer per Greek. Remember that a thousand of his 7,000 people are on the mountain pass, but archers aren't terribly effective against heavy infantry at this point in history, right? The Greeks are all carrying wooden shields. They're all wearing bronze helmets.

So the arrows are mostly like glancing off or thunking harmlessly into their shields. Hey, guys, look, look, I'm a hedgehog. I'm a hedgehog. Yeah. Some of the arrows do get through to them in the second valley and gold rings just go flying out of a few of them. So, so eventually, Zerksy's orders a full frontal assault. Galliante. What? He orders it in waves of 10,000 men.

The only record we have of this encounter comes from Dia Dora Siculus who says only that the Greeks were quote, superior in valor and in the great size of their shield. End quote. I tend to think the latter was more impactful than the farmer, but as Gikoisticus the whole, well, we had the most valor may have been coming from a Greek historian. to think the latter was more impactful than the farmer. But but but it's jicoistic as the whole. Well, we had the most valor may have been coming from a Greek historian. That doesn't mean it wasn't true, right? So keep in mind that the Persian army is mostly made up of variously subjugated peoples

that are trying to add to some other dudes, empire, and the far reaches of the universe that they're aware of. And the Greek army is mostly made up of more or less volunteers defending their way of life. Like, obviously not dying trumps all the other motivators, but it's not unreasonable to think that the Greece had their hearts in this one a little bit more. Yeah, you know what? It's just a really long walk back to Persia. So I'm just going to let someone stab me and see where that takes me. You know, you're a bunch of traffic on the bridge.

So throughout the first day, the Greeks rotated different cities, armies to the front to prevent battle fatigue and they didn't give up an inch. The sources we have put the casualties from that first wave in the order of thousands of dead Persians at the cost of two or three Spartans, probably not super accurate. So Zerce decides to send in the heavy hitters. He sends an elite core of 10,000 men called the Immortals for the next wave. They failed to live up to that title. The regard of a phased retreat gets the Immortals all out of line and

pursuit that turns around and just the failings is the shit out of them. All right, they're running away. We're winning. Fuck they're turning around. They're winning. Fuck, they're turning around. They're turning around going the mud part, mud part now. We're going to stay in just going the mud part. We'll stop if you stop. So after the Immortal Scope up empty handed,

Zerksy's decides to call it a day. His army goes back to Liket's wounds. Next morning, he decides to try a different tactic known as the exact same thing, but again, right? He sends another 10,000 men who get themselves soundly defeated. And just as he's wondering what to do next, a Greek trader by the name of Fialtis shows up and tells them about the mountain pass. Now this betrayal is so legendary that the very name Atheautes would eventually come to me nightmare in the Greek language.

So that night, Zerkecy sends one of his generals along with 20,000 men along the mountain pass. The troops that Leonidas had stationed there, see that force come and realize that they're out number 20 to one, realized that they don't have a sweet like narrow pass to defend in slow motion or whatever, and they retreat. They send a runner down to warn Leonidas who calls a war council at dawn of the next day. So pretty much everybody's like, okay, so we retreat then. But Leonidas realizes that if they all retreat, they're going to be opening the road for

the Persian cavalry. Right? So like only infantry can make it along the mountain pass. So a retreating army could get a head start on them and live to fight another day. But if the cavalry broke through, they would be routed. So, Leonidas vows to stay and hold the pass with his 300 Spartans. I have one condition, brothers.

When you tell this story, you guys have to leave yourselves out of it, right? The whole thing at the beginning was to just tell this part with me and my friends. Just say, when you me and my pros just say when I would you offer to help just say that I said, Oh, we are partly we all said it together. And I kicked you down a well. You gotta say also I killed a wolf that one time you remember that. My very important my friend fucked my wife.

So I should. So I should know to you by the way that what I've offered is the most generous and heroic possible interpretation of Leonidas's actions. It's also possible that he was just bad at war. Right. So there was a super strong cultural imperative in Sparta to never retreat, no matter what. So it's possible that this was just a pigheaded decision that didn't actually serve any other purpose, but personal grandisement. And by the way, if that was the goal, it worked fucking wonderfully. But regardless of his reasoning, Leonidas decided to mount a rearguard action with his 300 Spartans and 700 Thesbian and 400

600 or so other various things that history hasn't really been as kind to. Okay, you guys are all picturing 300 musical now because that's Ian's. Right? Oh, thank you. Yes. The sharks and jets. They're some new ones.

Yeah, snapping at each other. It could be any worse than the movie. Yeah. For all the build up and the historic notoriety from that point, the Spartans just go get their asses kicked. Right. Like every indication is that they held the pass for another like an hour and a half if that early in the morning, a Persian contingent

advances from the West just as the outflanking force is approaching from the East. So Leonidas army charges at the smaller of the two forces. This starts as a spirit fight. Spears don't last very long in battle. So very quickly, they switch to their short swords. According to Herodidus, two of Circusi's brothers fell during this part of the battle. That sounds a little unlikely at first, but you have to keep in mind that Persian kings had heroms at the time. So Circusi's probably had literally hundreds of brothers. So now for his part, Leonidas is killed in the fight.

He shot down by Persian arrows. They're supposedly a scuffle over possession of the body and the Greeks get it. But then they're like, oh, we're, we're fucking surrounded. That means absolutely nothing. We're, we're, our spaces dying. Why do you say? Yeah, right. Yeah. This is nothing. You're right. And they called dibsies though. If they call dibsies, that's it. It doesn't. Well, that must have been it. Yeah. But then they got mowed down. A few of the Thebans tried to surrender,, but the Persians mode them down as well. According to Herodidus, the final tally of the battle was 4,000 dead Greeks to 20,000 dead Persians. Now, after the battle, Zerxes is so pissed that he orders Leonidas's body to be beheaded and crucified.

His army breaks through a decrease. They set the two nearest cities that refuse to submit to Persian dominance, but it's time they get to Athens. It's pretty much evacuated, but he burns it to the ground anyway. And then he sends a dude back the next year to burn it down again, like to the grounder. Now eventually the Greeks were able to mount a defense at the Ismus of Koran, and a decisive naval victory ultimately turned the Persians back after months and just stomping around and raising cities and shit. So as infatuated as history has been with the Battle of Theropoly ever since, it's hard to see how things would have turned out a hell of a lot different if Leonidas and his guys just stuck around and saw the end of the rock hockey tournament.

All right. And if you had to summarize what you've learned in one sentence, what would it be? Wait until after the game to do your chores. Okay. Good lesson. Are you ready for the quiz? I'm still watching the game. Okay.

Now I'm ready. All right. Now clearly the battle of Thermopy Lee serves as an inspiration to us all. So what should be its inspirational motto? A. Live, laugh, lose. B. Eat, pray, perish. C. Rise and grind your bones to dust. D, live every day like it's your last. No, really. Pfft. Pfft.

Pfft. I have a couple good answers there. I'm gonna have to go A, live laugh loose. Live laugh loose, you got it. All right, no, which of the following is my favorite fun fact about the language of ancient Greece? A, it was originally written from right to left, but then for a while, it had a system called

boostrafiden, in which the writing would alternate direction every line, so you could read it in like snake formation without jumping your eyes back after every line. What? Which is awesome. Then they switch from left to right. B, they invented vowels. First alphabet to have vowels. I see.

C, the word idiot is derived from a word in Greek that basically meant guy who says, I don't really follow politics or news or public affairs. So that's where idiot comes from. Or D, they had a word for a meat dish that is 171 letters. Jesus Christ. But they can still say, you can have my spear when you pry it

from my cold dead of hands. Go fuck yourself. You insane, beautiful, oily giant in four syllables and nine letters. Those are all so good. Like, see, like, 80, it does have vowels in it. So that's tempting. But, straw-fed dog, by the way, that comes from the term for, like, as the ox plows,

excuse me, you know, the plow back and forth in that way. But, so I'm gonna have to go see, the secret answer, ee, all of the above. Ah, that's correct. Well done. Reasoned it out. All right, Noah. What was the Thasbian musical about the Spartan last

stand at Thermopoly? A. Glee Onitis B. Hoplight Express C. Stabaret or D. Greece. Grease. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha You see, so well done, you stumped him, you are the winner. All right, Tom's gonna go next. Yay. All right, well for Tom, Noah, Cecil, and Eli, I'm Heath, thank you for hanging out with us today. We'll be back next week, and Tom will be an expert on something else. Between now and then, you can hear Tom and Cecil on cognitive dissonance, and you can hear Eli knowing myself on God off of movies, skating at his

Skeptocrat, and D&D Monarch. But it's way more shows than them. It's so hard if you just cannot also you can make a perhaps a donation at patreon.com slash citation pod if you enjoyed what you heard and if you'd like to get in touch with us listen to past episodes connect on social media particular show notes check out citation pod dot com and so I said to him why not just do do this by a cliff next time pod.com. Okay, no, that's fair. What? I said we're gonna get you up here.

Nice. Cause at this point I'm basically holding a wet trash bag full of Kinder Eggs, you know what I'm saying?