Citation Needed - The First Drive Across America

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

Horatio Nelson Jackson (March 25, 1872 – January 14, 1955) was an American automobile pioneer. In 1903, he and driving partner Sewall K. Crocker became the first people to drive an automobile across the United States. Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

Road trip! I can't believe you let you guys talk me into this. Come on, C. So it's gonna be fun. You will not let me talk. And what better way to prepare for my essay this week, the first drive across America. Eli, have you used the bathroom already? Yes, I used the bathroom already.

I'm not a child, Noah. Shaka middle. Who calls Shaka middle? I like to use you and Tom as a thunder blanket. Seriously, why do we have to be back here with him? What, what? What? Sorry, Cecil, I'm driving and talk I get shot.

Yeah, it's like the one benefit, so nice. Tom, are you okay with this? Right, falls asleep whenever not directly doing anything. Cool. He does, that's true, falls asleep. Okay directly doing anything cool. He does. That's true. It falls right into sleep. Okay, so a quick ground rose. One, if you need to use the bathroom, use it now because I'm not stopping every 20 minutes. Two, Heath is DJ until I don't like his music and then it's my mixed CD and three, if we hit a deer or a guy who doesn't look like he has a family, we didn't. Okay, absolutely. I. Okay? Absolutely. Gotta find sure.

Yeah. Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr it, you're in hell. Trust me on that. Allcaster, choose Subject, read a single article about our Wikipedia and pretend we're experts. Because this is the internet, that's how it works. Now, I'm Ciclin, I'll be manning this service station, but I'll need my customers. First up, two guys fighting over the last roller hot dog, Heath and Tom. I like how it looks like an obstacle course. No, it's a giant piece of film. It really does. Alright, Cecil, I don't know how many Michelin stars the Amaco in your neighborhood has, but I'm not eating at the gas station. How am I going to get my recommended daily allowance

of cheese skin? There it is, there it is, there it is, there. Also joining us tonight, the person who used the bathroom three times during one pit stop and the guy who's just going to hold it till the next gas station, Eli and Noah. 13.59% of Americans suffering from IBSC. So I am a survivor. I'm sure I'm not putting a ribbon on my car. Eli, bigots, you're all bigots. You see you do bigots. Okay, I want to thank all our patrons that threw in a few bucks for gas money. And all you people riding for free should thank them too.

And if you'd like to learn how to join their ranks, be sure to stick around till the end of the show. With that out of the show. With that out of the way, tell us Tom what person, place, thing, concept, phenomenon, or event. We'll be talking about today. Today we'll be talking about the first drive across America. Okay. Noah, why did you pick this topic? Okay, so I don't know about you guys, but I have a little notebook that I keep in my office where I jot down ideas for citation needed episodes. So whenever I'm watching a documentary

or reading a book or whatever, and I come across something that seems promising, I'll just jot it down. Yeah, I have a suicide note that's like 14 pages at this point. Thank you for the little upbeat there, you like. Um, so at one point I was reading a a bill price in book and I came across a couple of paragraphs about this story. And for like a year and a half, it's been sitting in my notebook written as follows.

Horatio Nelson Jackson first drive across America and then underlined for emphasis, Bulldog in goggles. What? That's a yes. This story will feature a Bulldog in goggles. You are edging me right now, no illusions. Are you me? Consider me.

Are you serious? Yes, I am. So unfortunately, goggles. What? Look at that. Look at that. Anything seen people.

Forshadowing. So stupid. Now unfortunately, when I checked the Wikipedia article about it, there wasn't really enough there for a full episode And so I figured maybe I couldn't do this right I have to combine it with something but then last week I learned that Ken Burns had actually made like a like hour and 40 minute documentary about this for PBS back in 2003 So I want to admit that I am leaning heavily on that documentary. It's called Horatio's Drive America's first road trip Also, I'd strongly recommend it. It's called Horatio's Drive America's First Road Trip. Also, I had strongly recommended it. It's a fun documentary. It's filled with some amazing period photos, including,

you know, dog and goggles. Also, Tom Hanks does the voice for Horatio Nelson Jackson reading his letters to his wife. Yeah. And Gilbert Gottfried does the voice of the dog. It's really cute. No, this is going to feel really incomplete without slow panning over old photos while you do this and me taking notes for my social studies class, but I guess I can't do anything about the photographs, but you can take notes for social studies. That's not stopping. Okay, so this story starts in 1903 at a hoidy, toyty rich guy club in San Francisco, California. This dude Horatio Nelson Jackson, who went by Nelson, but I'm going to call him Horatio because that seems more in keeping with the old timeliness of the story.

See, he's there with his wife. And he overhears a couple of people at the next table talking about these new, fangled automobiles and how they're never going to replace a good old-fashioned horse. And look, we have a bit of a habit, I think, of giggling at the obtuse dummies back in 1903 that thought that cars would never catch on. But in their defense, the horse had been serving that function for 6,000 fucking years. Right? So you don't like that novelty that showed up the day before yesterday won't replace a six millennia old technology.

Isn't quite as dumb an argument as it seems with the benefit of hindsight. Yeah, especially when you consider that most cars were just giant looney tuned bombs until 1990. Really? Yes. I call the old fashioned, but I like my coffee black. My trip's on horseback and my women cured of hysteria by hand jobs from professional doctors. This car's going nowhere.

No, but her ratio was to take no optimist apparently because he took the counterpoint. He argued that cars were destined to become the dominant mode of transportation in the country. The other party whose name has been lost to history apparently argued that cars were just good for short pleasure trips for rich people. Horatio's Rebuttal was a $50 bet that he could drive a car all the way across the country inside three months. He gave himself a little leeway there. And this

was an unusual bet because a $50 was a lot of fucking money at that point. There's an equivalent of about 1500 bucks today. And B, Horatio Nelson Jackson did not own a car and he had never driven one before. Well, I mean, lack of microphones and experience didn't stop any of us from starting a podcast. So I can't see. Yeah. Good boy. iPods are the wave of the future. Absolutely. I was a zoom guy back in the day, but you know, it was like, zoom.

You know, if I'm being a hundred dollars upside, hardly seems worth the trouble. If you have to buy the car before you win and then drive across Indiana. It's all to entry, man. before you win and then drive across Indiana. And then go off. It's all to injury, man. Now, to understand this, but first you have to know a little bit about her ratio. So he came from a well to do family and married into a much weller to do one. He started his adult life as a physician. He got his MD from the University of Vermont in 1893, back before we knew enough about medicine

to make that mean much. Yeah, that was just a weekend correspondence course that also came with improv class. It all helped you with your humors. So but in 1899 he married Bertha Wells daughter of Vermont's third richest man, William Wells. William had made a fortune selling something called Pains Celery compound, which claimed to be a panacea, but was actually just 40 proof alcohol with celery extracts. Sounds like the Scotch heath drinks before someone died a cigarette out in it. That's what it's okay. It's notes of a tree coal. It's other stuff. So shortly after his marriage, her ratio got kind of sick one time and he said, well, shit, I guess I'm never going to recover enough from that to work again.

So, I might as well spend the rest of my days kicking back, spending your dad's money and making historically outlandish bets, huh? Yeah, I tried the same thing with Anna, but she was all like what money women, am I right? Now and to be clear this bat and thinking that he could win it was fucking nuts So keep in mind that the first car ever sold in the US was sold in 1898 That is five years before this bat Helen it only been 15 years since Carl Benz took his fucking three-wheeled Benz Pat and Motorcar out for its first test drive and birthed the automotive revolution to begin with. In 1903, people still hadn't figured out how to handle

the very concept of the automobile. A couple incredible examples from the documentary. In Vermont, they had just done away with a red flag law that said that if you wanted to drive a car, you had to have a dude walk in front of you waving a red flag to Warren pedestrian. We still have to do this whenever Eli drives for insurance reasons. The most people, it's very practical. Tennessee had a law on the books in 19 three that said that if you wanted to drive somewhere in an automobile you had to post your route two weeks in advance to horn pedestrians

uh... and in a little way somebody stretched a steel cable across the road to catch what he called the devil wagons yes suffice to say it was not a very car friendly nation at this point okay so he's gonna be driving through and just be like, all right, so wait, is that a cop spready-egled in the middle of a spider web made of steel going across the road? I'm just gonna drive through it, I guess.

Okay, you guys joke, but when my son was a baby, people used to drag race up and down our street and wake him and Anna had to physically stop me from doing the winch wire thing because it was technically murder. I'd still think I should have done it. I still think it was a good idea. There are justifiable homicides. So, but the biggest obstacle facing Horatio, though, was the lack of infrastructure. There were fewer than 150 miles of paved roads in the entire country at this

point. And every one of those roads in the entire country at this point and every one of those was in a major city. The tracks across the rural areas were designed for horse drawn wagons to the extent that they existed at all. There were no street signs, there were no route numbers, there were no road maps, because who the fuck would need them? And while most municipal stores did carry gasoline for like cook stoves and farm equipment, it's not like you could pull up to a fucking chevron whenever your tank got low. It's also not like

you could buy spare parts along the way or get a flat fixed. So it's like owning a Tesla right now. Is what you're saying? All right. See, so wait for the story to play out. We don't know yet if they catch on fire with the doors locked or the doors unlocks. Everybody survives this. So I should also point out. The doors unlock. Actually, there are no doors, but we'll get. So I should point out the by the way that Horatio was not the first person to attempt this trip. Right. That honor goes to two brothers named Louise and John Davis who made the first known attempt in 1899, leaving from New York City. And not only did they not make it, but according to one contemporary account, quote, a one armed

bicyclist who left the city 10 days later passed them by and see recuse and quotes. Okay. That's rough. That's just embarrassing. You're in a car. Some one-armed guys like on your left. Okay. Okay.

Okay. I hate when people say that. That feels like an ableist description for no- it does the arm effect your cycling ability. I feel like, you know, on bumpy roads, it probably does. You would have been in some better story if it was a one-legged side.

Yeah, right. I know that's bad. That's fair. So, the first serious attempt came a couple of years later from a guy named Alexander Wynton. He's actually the guy who built the first car that was ever sold in the US. And in cars early history, Wynton was one of the big manufacturers. So for his trip, he decided to go west to East since that lets you get the hardest part

out of the way first. But the downside of that is that you have to go through the hardest part first, right? So he left from San Francisco. He made it about 500 miles in 10 days and then he got a hopelessly bogged down in a sand dune in the Nevada desert and called it quits. Okay. I don't like where this is going. No, if any of these guys turn out to be Nazis, you're stealing my thing.

You're stealing my things. Yeah. And if you're making it up, you're stealing my thing. You're stealing my things. Yeah. And if you're making it up, you're stealing mine. So what I'm saying is we're watching you now. We're watching you. Now, her ratio was apparently aware of Wynton's attempt. It decided to avoid a repeat of that problem by starting off going north into the cascade

mountains and avoiding the desert are all together. This would add about a thousand miles to the trip and a whole extra mountain range. Okay, turns out the automobile is not suited to the rigors of open desert. Oh horizontal isn't really the thing. Let's try verticality. Right, pretty much, yes. So the first thing he had to do of course was get himself a car, got a Caledon? Right. Pretty much, yes. So the, now the first thing he had to do, of course, was get himself a car, got a

Wynton. Actually, he overpaid for a slightly used two-cylinder Wynton touring car, which he named it the Vermont. The second thing he needed was somebody who knew how to drive and repair that thing. This somebody came in the form of one Suol-K Krocker, a mechanic that he met in Sanfran, that would become the Clark to his Lewis Lewis except that Lewis brought more than zero useful skills to the table. And so without a photo, it is hard to express just how prehistoric this fucking car is. Okay, there's no roof.

So there's just out the elements when it rains. There are no doors, as I mentioned, there's no fucking windshield. It's damn it. It's like it's four wheels on a chassis with a bench welded to it Looks like a Roman chariot got cursed by like I don't know like a steam punk witch It's seriously. It's just a chest or field sofa and like four wheels tape inside field sofa and like four wheels tape inside. That's one of our less. Yeah. Originally, I had a back seat, but they had to remove that to make room for all the spare parts and fuel, not to mention all their camping gear, cooking gear and the food that they

needed to bring along. Since we were 45 years from the creation of the first drive through, the engine, which was mounted underneath the driver's seat, had all a 20 horsepower and in ideal conditions, its top speed was 30 miles per hour. From one coast to the other, they would never encounter ideal conditions. She looks someone that they could survive a night in Antarctica and a blanket fort. Okay. It was really has that feel.

Yeah. So Horatio and Sewell set off on May 23rd, 1903. First, they took a ferry from San Francisco to Oakland and then it was off into the untamed wilderness, or at least the first 15 miles of the untamed wilderness, which is how far they made it before they blew a fucking tire. They replaced that with a spare, but at this rate they realized that they were gonna need

something like 217 spare tires for the trip, right? And they'd only brought one. like 217 spare tires for the trip, right? And they'd only brought one. Now, they wanted more, but again, cars were just some weird rich person novelty at that point. Like, one spare tire for this particular model of Winton was all that the city of San Francisco had to offer. So now, though, with the extent to which they were under prepared only slightly starting

to dawn on them, they headed north into the mountains into a part of the U.S. that earned the distinction at that time of being further from the nearest railroad than anywhere else in the country. Oh, well, that's probably also the first place from in the country from vinyl chloride, too. And on that, let's take a quick break for some apropos of nothing. Wow Uncle Horatio, I can't believe you traveled through time just to see what it's like to go across the country in the future And did I did my boy now glad to see that Jackson's haven't lost their explorer spirit? We sure haven't all right. Are you ready for our first big trial?

And did I have all right? We're gonna have to take our shoes off for security Mmm and leave them here? Oh, no, you just put them on the thing in the bucket and then you pick them back up on the other side. But it sucks. It really sucks. Right. But that ain't the half of it. When we get to the gate, even though they said

I could bring this bag, they might change their minds. Oh, forcing you to leave your worldly goods behind. I'm well familiar with that. Um, no, no, it does still go on the plane, but then I have to wait to get it back. Hmm. Oh, oh, I see, but you're upset because it's got all the supplies that you're gonna need for the long journey and we may starve because of that I mean, technically the journey's only like eight hours eight hours. Yeah, and there's food on the plane But it's not very good food. It's not it's hmm. I see great great-grand enough you yes great uncle Jackson Are you a big old pussy?

Yeah. Oh, okay. That's good enough. Before we left off, two delirious guys were wandering through the mountains, hallucinating that the other guys had giant spare tire. What happened next, now? Lot more of that actually. So yeah, so we're going to rejoin our heroes in Alterus, California. Now, these days, if you wanted to drive from San Francisco to Alterus, it would take

according to Google Maps about six hours in light traffic. Took Jackson and Crockara a week and a half. Once they got into the cascade mountains, they were constantly having to stop to dig out minor landslides or push away boulders. Again, these roads were intended for horses and fucking horse-drawn wagons, right? So like, there wasn't always a bridge

when you would come to a shallow river. Cause the fucking horse can just wait over that shit, right? So when they came across something like that, they'd have to just drive as far as they could get the fucking Vermont in, then they would swim or wade the way across, find something to secure a pulley to and winch the fucking thing over the river bed and onto the other side of the road. And given the conditions of the road, by the way, it didn't always take a river crossing for them to have to resort to block and tackle.

Okay, I feel like you just cock the wagon, right? And then you deal with like a mea big, disinterior, whatever. It's basically stuff on your phone. But road conditions were the only thing slow. I'm down here. Rand McDally wouldn't publish their first road atlas until 1924. There are no street names once you get out of the cities. So they had to just rely on the word of strangers

when they were playing in their route. Sometimes that would go spectacularly wrong for them. Like one point where they ended up taking like 108 mile dead end detour because they asked some lady on horseback for directions and instead of telling them how to get to town, she sent them off this nowhere-ass road that led to her parents' house

because her family had never seen an automobile before. That's fantastic. That's actually how you find a polling station and a red state, too. It's the same exact process. I give it she wanted her parents to see an automobile, but was it also her dream for them to see one filled with guys cursing her name and promising to cave her head in with a shovel if they ever stalk her.

She seems, maybe on the way to Outterest, they both gained and lost some supplies. In Sacramento, they picked up a more powerful search light to augment the Vermont's feeble headlights. And they picked up several used inner tubes in lieu of a proper replacement spare. But all the bump BS roads and yank in the car through rivers, shit, also caused them to lose a lot of supplies that would either just fall off the back or float away. That included all their cooking gear and at least two pair of Horatio spectacles in the first 10 days.

All right, spectacles are gone, but I still have testicles wallet watch. But this is okay. 75 is still a pass in grade. But there was some shit they needed that they could not get in Sacramento. And that's what led to the stop in Elteras. They'd wired San Francisco about some replacement parts and spare tires. And those were on the way, but they had to come on a covered wagon, which was considerably slower. So they'd stop in Elteras on a covered wagon, which was considerably slower.

So they'd stopped in Alterus to give the wagon a chance to catch up. Ultimately, they spent three days there charging people for short trips in the Vermont and otherwise basking in the celebrity of having the coolest thing that would pass through Alterus, California, and anyone there's lifetime. I'm sorry, Noah, a chance to catch up was the covered wagon also taking 108 mile one-way pit stops Anti-Mays house for like pancakes and a good oggling It may be that she never saw you know, they like my family's never seen a big old covered wagon full of auto parts I don't know

Oh, so and I should emphasize here too What a big fucking deal it was for people to see a car back then. But like at this point in history, car drove through town, newsworthy event. A lot of what we know about this trip actually is from old news clippings, from the various towns that they drove through along the way. And because news travels faster than San Francisco to Alterus in 10 fucking days, before too long, the various towns along

their route where eagerly are waiting their arrival. There's one amazing article from a paper called the Lakeview Examiner that told people to gather early to see the car when it came through since when it went through town. It might be traveling as fast as 90 miles per hour so you wouldn't have much time to take it in. No, no, no. So to be clear, in the same year, a new automotive speed record was set at 68 miles per hour,

and Jackson and Cracker probably never got much over 20 during their trip. Okay, so they had like big crowds gathered, and there's like a guy with binoculars looking ahead. All right, I see a guy on a rolling couch that hanging a really difficult shit from like a maybe disinterior or something. Is the automobile coming after that?

What am I looking at? No, of course, not everybody saw their cars a marvel of the modern world. Some people were scared as fuck of it. I particularly liked a story, Horatio shared with his wife about a homesteader that saw his car coming. Assumed it was a train that had somehow jumped the track. And then stuffed himself in his family under their carriage as it puttered by.

Mabel, kids, get down. Hide. The train is coming. Hold. Hold. Hold. Hold. Hold. I can just leave you. I have to be like, okay. Hold. Okay. So there were also people who saw this as a money making opportunity, especially store owners who knew that they had the only gasoline for sale within like a hundred miles. And seriously, there were times when these dudes paid like 20, 23 prices for their gas. Thanks, Biden. Okay, Cesar, don't be silly. Our current president wouldn't be born for another

39 years Christ drive across America He's 39 years younger than the first She says All right, so after three days wait and out to her as they said fuck it They moved on without their load of spare parts and tires they got all of a day north or so before they broke down again wound up stranded for a full day before anyone even passed by Would somebody eventually did it was a cowboy that ultimately wound up towing their car to his house with his fucking horse. Now, now, now, Crocker managed to fix the car, but while he was doing it, he accidentally let all the gasoline go out. So then he had to rent the cowboys bicycle from him, right at 25 miles to the nearest store, pick up

gas and come back and on the way back the fucking bike got a flat So you have to walk the bike for most of the trip Anything's going wrong. That is his foot just burst into flame and exploded while he was trying to walk And I got showed up to help on on a unicycle, but the guy had zero arms is a whole thing No help Okay, I got to ask those seriously. No, is this because I did the sports thing last week? Is that why you taking this from me?

Does this feel? I told Lucid I said I love the stories where I know everybody else is going to get jealous of me for having. So, so they managed to get through Oregon and into Idaho without another major breakdown. And it's in Caldwell, Idaho, where your team finally rounds out to a trio with the addition of Bud the dog. Yeah, there's a picture. Yeah, a picture.

He's living his little goggles. Yeah, he's a little goggles. So there's some controversy as to how her ratio acquired this bulldog. There were some contemporary resources that suggested that he stole them. Knowing how profiligate her ratio was, that's really unlikely. His story is that he paid $15 for him. I don't say any reason to doubt him. But because the car had no windshield and because there was a fuck ton of dust blowing around in the area they were driving through, they also had to get a pair of driving goggles altered to fit the dog.

And yes, it will not be hard for you to find pictures online or bud the dog in his little driving. Even with road dust asthma, it's still breathed easier than Eli's dog. Hey, yeah, snap. All right, catch with wheels and a guy taking a difficult shit and a bulldog with goggles and a CPAP machine. What's the automobile coming? Is this? That's been an interesting day, but yes. So okay, so at this point, they've actually gone through the hardest part of their trip. They would still get lost plenty more times.

They'd have plenty more major breakdowns and they'd lose a lot more stuff along the way, including at one point, Horatio's coat with all his fucking money in it. But all of that can this even be done stuff was in the rear review mirror, so to speak. But it was around this point that a new wrinkled appears in the story. See, wanted to become clear, what kind of press this trip was getting? A couple other auto manufacturers decided

that they wanted in on the action. And they didn't want some other mother fuckers car to be the first to make it across the country. So in quick succession, two other major automakers at the time, Packard and Oldsmobile sent out their own teams from San Francisco and made this thing a race. Okay. Uh, he feels like it's doing a lot of work.

Yeah. Better hope a one-armed bicyclist doesn't join. Yeah. But that was, that was a terrible day though, right? There was like, now, fellas, the good news is the hard part is over. The bad news is I just got a telegram. Two other groups of men just headed out to snatch this glory and make all of our suffering for nothing. So let's do lunch on the road, maybe. So now you might think that the race aspect wouldn't matter much given that Jackson and

Krocker had a three week head start, but both of these teams had huge advantages. First of all, they were being financed by the companies themselves. They had the very best mechanics go over every inch of their cars beforehand. They had supplies and spare parts stationed along the way so they didn't have to wait for covered fucking wagons to catch up with them. They had access to government geological data that Horatio wouldn't have been able to get where they were planning their roots. And both teams were made up of two professional test drivers instead of some random rich

guy in the first dude he met that knew how to crank a car and have three months to spare. Right? And look, the the Packard team even had a dedicated mechanic that alternately rode along or took the train ahead and got shit set up for him when they arrived. They also had the advantage of a more direct route since both of those teams had hit upon the idea of using big mats to allow their cars to drive over the really loose desert sands that bogged down Winton's attempt. Yeah, that big, gross, sticky mat is called Las Vegas. It lays right on the sand and then go straight through it. Yep, that's a different episode. We'll talk more about that. Yeah.

So the competition redoubled Horatio's Resolve, but at this point, their car was like having the kind of problems that you couldn't just duct tape your way out of. Luckily, the Winton Motor Carriage Company was well aware of their effort by then, so they were really quick to get Horatio whatever the fuck he needed. They'd even offered to take over the planning,

but Horatio was too stubborn to give that up, given the stellar job of navigation he'd been doing up to that point. Oh yeah, yeah, we don't want to deviate from the ass some random lady who sent us 108 miles off course on a Frank Warp app. Yeah, that's really been the secret to our success, you know? Yeah.

Now, the Packard team did manage to cover more than twice as many miles per day as Jackson and Crock, or at least in the early going, but the closest they ever came to catching up was to get within 10 days of them. Their trip was ultimately doomed by the PR guys who were planning it because they insisted that the route take their guys to every possible population center along the way. And they also wanted a lot of pictures of the car driving through rugged terrain with soaring mountain peaks in the background. Like, needless to say, they just got stuck in the fucking Rockies and forever and by the time they emerged, they were hopelessly behind

her ratio. Guys, the Donner party did a bunch of this route on foot. Like how fucking hard to be. Now, the old Spelbyl team had even less luck, they started last and apparently also had the shittiest car. So they broke down more often and in one amazing instance, the car broke in such a way that the only working gear was reverse. So they ended up like backing their way through over a hundred miles of the trip. So ultimately Jackson and Crockner would arrive in New York City on July 26th at 4.30 in the morning.

Their entire trip took 63 days, 12 hours and 30 minutes. There was no odometer in cars back then and given the number of detours and wrong turns, they took this really no way to precisely measure how far they actually drove, but they went through 800 gallons of gas and Horatio said that the trip ultimately cost him $8,000. Jesus. That was like over a quarter of a million dollars in today's money. The Packard and Oldsmobile teams both would make it to New York, but ultimately Jackson and Crocker would post the fastest time despite all the advantages.

The Oldsmobile team, I love this so much, they tried to cheat. They went on from New York to Boston, and then they said that they actually had the fastest time from San Francisco to Boston. But everybody knows that Boston is a second-place version of New York, so it didn't count. It didn't count.

Yeah, and Boston still hasn't gotten any easier to drive through. Right? Yeah. But it is the same amount of racists. So, you've got to be a president. racist. So, he might have gone up. So once in New York City, Horatio parted ways with Sewell. He rejoined his wife and the two of them drove back to Vermont together in the same car that he just driven across the country in, which broke down along the way.

Actually, to get home, he actually had to wire his brothers and have them bring him a part for that car in their car. But once they got his car running, their car broke down and he ended up out and towed them back home because yes, the car was destined to take over the country, but it wasn't destined to do it just yet. They're getting towed back on your left. Oh, come on. Same guy. Really?

Fucking hate that guy. So quick footnote, by the way, Horatio didn't just fade away into historical obscurity after that trip. Despite being in his 40s when World War One broke out, he traveled overseas as an army surgeon. He won the distinguished service cross. He won the French. Crawd again, fucking

croix de gory. He helped. That's right. That's right. I'm getting right. He helped found the American Legion. Wait, you get that right. He was the first one.

I thought he'd put the guy in. So he owned and operated a radio station that he owned and operated a newspaper. He served as the president of a bank, but my favorite post script is that soon after returning home, he became one of the very first fermenters to ever receive a speeding ticket for driving over the statewide six mile per hour speed. Amazing. He was fine $5. Nice. And if you had to summarize, we learn in one sentence, what would it be? Any story that contains a dog with goggles is a story worth an episode. Absolutely. Are you ready for the quiz? The best. That I am, sir. Okay. Here we go Noah. Obviously, but the dog is just aching for a biopic. What should they call it? A, fun on the asphalt.

That's the best one. They get worse. Downhill from there, B, Aston Martin the Bud. What? In the blood. What is a movie? Chefs. Chefs.

Chefs. Chefs. Chefs. Chefs. Chefs. Chefs. Chefs. Chefs. Chefs. Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, Chefs, gonna go with a point five but on the high that's great. All right Noah driving across country in a car before they were roads is both dangerous and insane but a someone had to do it. Or B. No, they didn't. That's really you know the point of this I cannot emphasize enough The answer that question is B. Yeah You did it. This was all from a giant drunken bet by some like body better

Gamer yeah, you guys ever do that when you're bar and you're like I could kick a 40 yard fuck a field goal right now And you like go out and try to do it. I did that once I could not as it turned out. I did something very similar to that once you heathen and that's why I don't drink so yeah. Okay. Yeah, I still do. All right, which of the following is a real thing that happened during a road trip that I took with Eliya Noah from New York to South Carolina for reason, Khan. Hey, Noah vowed to murder the entire family of a road sign. Be true. We learned that you're technically allowed to drink in the backseat of your vehicle in the Commonwealth of Virginia. So me and Anna

finished an entire bottle of scotch during that like two hours straight through Virginia on the way down. See, me and Anna said, hi to people at the convention, way too fucking loud. D, I ordered four extra racks of ribs on top of the ones that I was eating when we ordered them at this place called 12 bones. It's amazing. It's Obama's favorite ribs place.

I ordered four extra to save for the drive home. Can I eat them along the way, like for real while we're driving? And at one point Eli had to say to me, Heath, please lower your road meat. I can't see the mirror. I believe that's exact words. Or E, thanks to Eli's tyrannical control of the music, we listened to the entire album, the sign by A.C.O.

Wow. He's so signed. Oh wow. More than once. More than once. So, okay, so I want to, there is a scurllus rumor that's been going on for a very long time that I vowed to murder the entire family of a road sign on a road trip from New York to South Carolina. That is not true.

That happened on the way back on from South Carolina to New York. So the correct answer is secret answer F B through E. Wow. Because that's hard to for you to figure out. But yes, it was f exactly what you said Ignore including the one because of the exception and the ribs were on that but also yep. It was what you said Oh, but the ribs were on it. That's why I am also wrong. Yeah, that's why he's Technically, I was it was implied that you weren't allowed to use that technicality you won because you could stop now I win it's okay

Thank you Cecil you get to go next for helping me through that. Okay. I will I will go next week sounds great All right, well for Tom Noah Eli and Heath I'm Cecil thank you for hanging out with us. They will be back next week, but then I will be an expert on something else between now And then take a trip somewhere with a dog with goggles. And if you like how keep the show going, you can make a per episode donation to patreon.com slash citation pod leaves five star view everywhere you can.

If you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes connected to the sun social media or check the show notes to be sure to check out citation pod dot com. He piloted. And see the only free movies are like these two or three. If you want to watch the new releases, you have to pay, great uncle. Two of my sons died in childbirth.

Oh, whatever, you don't get it. I want to watch the minions. Yeah, I'll put on minions. for our minions.