Citation Needed - The Salvation Army

Episode Date: November 23, 2022

The Salvation Army (TSA) is a Protestant church and an international charitable organisation headquartered in London, England. The organisation reports a worldwide membership of over 1.7 million,[3] comprising soldiers, officers and adherents collectively known as Salvationists. Its founders sought to bring salvation to the poor, destitute, and hungry by meeting both their "physical and spiritual needs." As opposed to other charities, that only focus on things that exist.

So, and she says, how do you want the ham sliced? And what did you say? Well, I told her, it's just my snacking ham. And how'd she take that? Oh, not well, started going on and on about how they had my picture up in the back and blah, blah, blah, don't make another ham. Okay, how about this one?

All right, what about Kevin Henderson? Yeah, all right. What about Kevin Henderson? Yeah. That sounds real to me. Yeah. $2? I'm making my five guys. What are you doing? What's going on?

Hey, Cecil. Tom, you guys are, is it early? Early, yeah. Is this the back end of modestneeds.org? And your own patreon account? What's going on? But I'll find okay. So since this episode was on the Salvation Army, we got talking about fake charities, right? Like modest needs dot org, right? Okay. We may or may not have been using the past four years to launder money to ourselves through fake

Patreon accounts fake patreon. No, no, no, you have not we met Keith. We have had Keith on our show. That's I mean, Tom, you you met a man named Keith. There was a guy. I knew his ass was too luscious to be the head of a charity. Okay, well, hey, let jig is up. So we give it back, charity. Okay, well, hey, let jig is up. So we give it back or we find a new charity as you can. Or, or we could split the more than a million dollars that we've raised over the last couple of years. Okay. So we're doing fake names or what house, how's the game? Exactly. Alpha, pedagogies kind of grab and go. Doesn't matter. I really hope Keith doesn't listen to this episode.

I'm sure he'll be flattered. Incredible ass on that guy. Oh my God, yes. Fucking, it's like a George and Pete. It's like a dump truck. It's like a fucking dump truck. I just want to get up in there. Hello and welcome. Sitation needed.

Podcasts where we choose the subject, read a single article about it and Wikipedia and pretend we're experts because this is the internet. That's how it works now. I'm Cecil and I'll be ringing this bell, but I won't be able to do it without my bell boys. First up, two bell hops and a barbell, Eli, Noah and Tom.

Yeah, I know it seems like I'm clearing my throat for a tip, but I'm actually just desperately trying to cover the noise in my farts. So. That's what it's all about. But he's standing in front of your luggage while he does it. So maybe hustle up with that temper, regardless. I, you know, see, so I'm not sticking my neck out on that one. Because I have no neck.

It's true. It's true. It's true. It's canon now. Also joining us tonight are Bell Tower. Heat. Oh, fun because tall. Yeah, classic.

Love it. Love it. Well, I was gonna go with baby bell cheese, but you got pissed about cheese last week. So I don't know what Bell could do. He sees a bad old cheese person, I'll go, okay. All right.

Do you want me to reintroduce you with baby bell cheese? Yeah, please. I'm baby bell cheese. Yes, I am. I'm great. Keith is here. Go.

I think it's weird that we make heath do this podcast at gunpoint. I appreciate our longevity, but I do think it's it's odd. All right, non patrons, this is our padlock bucket that we would like you to put change into. And if you'd like to learn how to slip us some cash, be sure to stick around till the end of the show. And with that out of the way, tell us Tom, what person place thing concept phenomenon or event we'll be talking about today. Ring a ding ding. See, so we'll be talking about the Salvation Army.

Salvation Army. No, why are we talking about the Salvation Army? Because it's that time of year again, right? The time of year where, right? The time of year where suddenly every big box store in mall in this country is proceeded by a ring and bell and a red kettle and a fuck ton of under informed people dropping money into said kettle, thinking they just donated to a charity. But they didn't because the Salvation Army is not a charity. It's a church and there's a huge difference between those two things, right?

Like, for example, a charity has to tell you where the money they just took from you went and how much they play their employees and stuff. So I hope that we could raise awareness of this fact by looking at the history of the organization. Well, that's good. Okay. So where does our story start? In London's East End in 1865, that's where former Methodist reform minister William their at least among us the homeless, the drunkard and the prostitute, or at least that's what

the heiography promoted by the church says the truth is there's no fucking record beyond both's own claims as to why he left the church. And there's every reason to believe that among his chief motivators was the fact that they weren't brutish enough about alcohol. Oh, okay. So it's like stolen valor, but for stuff that matters, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Okay, that matters, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, that matters, Cecil. I mean, never minding, of course, that 90% of all enlisted never actually do any of the fighting stuff. They're all heroes. All of them are heroes. They deserve to get on the plane earlier than me. That's what it is. Line books and mechanic heroes.

Anyway, so legend has it that Booth hadn't wanted to start a church. He just wanted to minister to people that would then turn to other churches, but those other churches didn't want to be all full up with poor people. So he had to form his own church and mission in 1865, and it would keep its generic name until 1878. The new name came about when Booth was dictating a letter to his secretary in which he referred to his mission as a volunteer army. Williamson Bramwell, there's a name that didn't catch on for some reason.

Bramwell? Yeah. So Bram. Bram's excellent. So exactly. So Bramwell objected. He said, quote, volunteer, I'm no volunteer. I'm a regular at which point the secretary was told to strike out the word volunteer and

substitute salvation. And that secretary's name Albert Einstein. Okay, also, I just, I have literally no idea what that I'm no volunteer. I'm a regular means that none that were you conscripted into the bell ringers brigade? Cause that's what a non volunteer army is. The real answer is just such a dry and boring thing about how the British like classify their reserves. There's just no funny way to explain.

So I'm just going to leave it hanging. No. So again, this is of course the church's official story and like most churches official stories about any fucking thing, it's bullshit, right? The truth is William Booth really, really, really wanted to play army despite being a grown up. Okay. His church isn't just called an army. It's army themed through and through.

Like they call their ministers officers and their lay it soldiers. They dress in military style uniforms with different colored appellates denoting various ranks within their organization. The ranks themselves are military. There's like general colonel lieutenant, et cetera. They call their meetings war congresses. They call their pre-dis soldiers covenant and used to call it the articles of war. Wait, when they move officers to new ministries, they call those instructions marching orders. The incredibly creepy slogan, blood and fire, which has appeared on their official logos since 1879, is called their war cry. There's also a Trump biography.

Well, yeah, problem. Their hymns are traditionally accompanied by a brass band. Hell, they even have their own form of military style salute where you lock your elbow and point your right index finger at the sky in case anybody wonders where God is. Right. It's all it's up. By the way, he's up. He's throwing a few orders of fried cheese curds, never-ending breadsticks and a 24-pack

of light beer. You have the oath keepers. Okay. If William Booth drops a gun and shoots himself in the fucking eye, like street votes, I'm going to be really happy about this story. So here's a fun to yell. Yeah. So here's a fun game you can play.

If you do the stupid salute thing at the guys with the buckets, they think you're part of the Salvation Army and then they do it back. And then you switch fingers and you get to watch them get sad. It's the best. Really, really makes my Christmas. No. As spooky as it sounds for a church to call itself an army, I do kind of wish that caught on and all the various Protestant offsuits all developed a theme. I love Batman villains, right? It would just it would make them so much easier to telepart. Okay, I'm pretty sure Giuliani is in fact the penguin of Batman. That helps with the GOP option of Protestantism, but it's confusing because Roger Stone looks like the penguin and also Hugo Strange, the

Riddler and the Joker at all times. All of the same. Yeah. Yeah, it does. Now, of course, it's worth noting that this was a prime era for new, weird-ass denominations of Protestantism, right? So, seventh day Adventism was founded in 1863. Jehovah's Witnesses started in the 1870s.

The Church of Christian Science was founded in 1879. So So booth was working in a seller's market of sorts. Yeah, he's the my space of Protestant missions. I guess. Yeah, I feel like he's more like the Yelp, right? Because people think it's a good thing, but it's actually just super bigoted corrupt. Ranking Protestants on the crazy scale feels a lot like just like graphing a horizontal line. Okay. No, that's fair. That's fair.

So a really low one too. Like I just really low up. And the exact is the graph. Yeah. There we go. So, now, the, the, logically,ologically the salvation army didn't differ much from the Methodist reformed church that Booth had preached up before, but two important differences were their rejections of both baptism and communion. See Booth argued that that Christians relied on symbolic

stuff that represented grace rather than actual grace. And in his defense, he was right about they still is actually. Of course, there's also been a piratonic prohibition of threat that comes through on this. They literally refused to serve wine because alcohol is bad. Right. Which means booth thought someone was getting a sip of the backwash grape juice at church and thinking to themselves, well, golly, I need another sip of that. Yes, that would be enough. And to be clear, the temperance movement drove them as much as anything early on, right? They

focused their ministry on alcoholics, morphine addicts and prostitutes. And while that might sound like the makings of a hell of a party, they were against all that stuff. So no, ruined good parties. In fact, they and Stalin, yeah, stuff in there. Yeah. So in fact, they preached against alcohol so virulently and effectively that they ended up making a lot of enemies amongst the pub owners in London. And then as now, of course, people were inherently suspicious of any new religious movement. All the more so if they called themselves an army war military uniforms and called each other colonel such and such and whatnot. So when you combine that with the bar and brothel owners, they kept pissing off. There was a pretty substantial opposition to their movement early on.

These are sounds like an H away with fancy uniform. It really is. That is a great idea. I am now only responding to my H.O.A. complaints if they are hand delivered by someone dressed as Colonel Clay. Otherwise, my lawn stays this high. Right. So now eventually opposition to the Salvation Army coalesced into the decidedly cooler sounding group of the Skeleton Army. See, at the time, they had, right? Yeah, but way cooler. So at that time, the Salvation Army, they had their mission in Easton, but most of their ministering took place on the streets. So the Skeleton Army would stalk their gatherings and interrupt by throwing rocks, bones,

tar, and rats at the home. What? Yeah, nobody specified whether they're talking about live or dead rats. And I honestly don't know which is more unpleasant to have thrown at you. And when those tactics failed, they would just beat the shit out of the Salvation Army, guys. And it's, it'd be super easy to paint the skeleton army as the bad guys in this instance. But I have to point out that early Salvation Army soldiers made a habit of getting

arrested repeatedly for holding unauthorized brass band parades down residential streets. What? Okay. Yeah. So there is every reason to believe that they needed the shit beat out of them now and again. Plus, you try to throw a handful of tar at someone. That goes badly. You're gonna get mad and just lose handful of tar. Then you grab a rat. Now you just have a rat stuck to your hand and that's even more. Golly.

What's it just slapping trumpet players in the face with a rat that stuck to your hand in frustration? Like I got it. I got it. Walking the house, your hand is now glued to a homophobic Trumpet deer. Jesus. But opposition be damned. The Salvation Army persevered and eventually took up root overseas. Okay, that is something because there is nothing that I would not quit if someone threw a tar covered rat at me before beating the shit out of it. Like nothing. Yep. We didn't show it. I have the kids. So they started a branch in America in the 1880s after a couple of their lieutenants moved

to Philadelphia. In the same decade, they opened up successful branches in Australia and Ireland. Now, they weren't always successful everywhere. They also started operating in Russia in 1917. But after a couple of rock years, the Russian government declared them a paramilitary organization and then banned them from operating in the country. Yeah, Russia was super embarrassed. They were all performing the military. In 1917, yeah.

Yeah. You know, they let it back. Eventually, I'm honestly shocked. Putin hasn't mobilized him yet. For the first several decades of operation, they weren't really known for their philanthropy. Okay, so they try to sell the history as though that was booth's focus from day one, but his focus was on ministering to the last fortune at not helping them, but that reputation started to change at the turn of the century, specifically after the Galveston hurricane of 1900 and the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.

The Salvation Army did particularly visible work after both of those disasters collecting money for disaster victims and if you're inclined to be generous, providing actual charitable relief to sad victims. Right. I'm not saying that they didn't provide relief, but the reason they got the reputation was for their visible fundraising, not their visible fund spending. Right. And keep in mind that even if they were donating 99% of the money they got to actual stuff,

the remaining 1% by definition of them being a church goes to nothing. It goes to the nothing that they are. That is wrong Eli. The dry cleaning bill for those uniforms is not going to pay for itself. So fancy apple. That's to think about here. Since, so since then they become known internationally for their humanitarian work and to their credit, they actually do quite a bit of it, right? They're active in at least 132 countries where they operate homeless shelters, run charity shops and provide aid from natural disasters. And sometimes their aid is critical.

Other times though, not so much. Like for example, they brag about being among the first relief agencies on the scene after the 9-11 attacks, but all they claim to have done there is, quote, provide prayer support for families of missing people, end quote. So nothing, they did nothing. Right. Is it another way to say this thing? So nothing, they did nothing. Right. Is it another way?

They were among the first groups to use the 9-11 attacks as a photo op and they doubt was got in the way of people who are trying to do genuine help at the moment. If somebody finds me the photo of Steve Bishemi pushing some asshole in a fake general uniform with the polyads out of the way so we can get to into the towers. I will tattoo that on my face. So now, according to the 2018 statistics, which were the most recent cited on Wikipedia, the salvation army has 111,859 employees and only 175,811 adherents. Yeah.

Right. So I assume there's a lot of 64,000 of them couldn't get jobs there. Yeah. Right. So assuming that they're paying those employees literally anything, they're pretty heavily dependent on those red kettles to make ends meet every year. But that is not their only source of income, of course. They also famously run charity shops where people donate clothes that they then sell to poor people.

They've also got a few huge donations along the way, most notably the time they inherited the bulk of the McDonald's fortune when Ray Crocs third wife left them $1.6 billion in her will. Oh, I'm leaving the GDP of Grenade of the fake army and grimaces of taste, bud, peace out. Just one of those bell ringer guys comes back to the Salvation Army headquarters. This bucket full of $1.6 billion. Hey, you guys want to make a bet? Price is right, Rose.

No, but for all the charity work they do, they, they, they are still a church, which means that more often than not, they fucking suck. And we'll be looking at the dark underbelly behind those annoying bell ringers and the other half of this essay. Well, while we buy a controlling share in the Salvation Army in Institute and Elon Musk ask downsizing, we're going to take a break for some apropos of nothing. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Money! What do you do? What are you doing? Oh, hi! Remember me from yesterday?

Yeah, you came over and yelled at me when I was collecting money. Okay, I didn't yell at you. I yelled about you being a homophob. Those are different things. Whatever, what are you doing here? You're not part of the Salvation Army. This is fraud! A-a-a-a-a!

This is not the Salvation Army. It says, dollar sign, Alvation Army, my very sincere church of not being a homophobic. That's not real. That's not even real. Hey, I actually very deeply believe in not being a homophobic. So... And they just let you set up here in the mall? Yeah, yeah, they did.

I think maybe they thought it was with a different organization. And I guess I didn't bother to correct them, but you know, spots a spot, right? Absolutely no way no, I'm getting a cop officer officer Yes, what seems to be the problem here gentlemen? This this man is Pretending to be a member of the salvation army to steal money from my church Dollar sign elevation army says right on the sign.

Just, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's a serious actrization. You oughta be careful, buddy. You know there are just a bunch of homophobes, right? You know what, never mind! I come up with good ideas on this part of the show. Yes, you do, you like? Yes, you. Well, we're back.

And that short break allowed us to sufficiently recover from the revelation that church is lie. So what else do they do that is a nice snow? Wait till my essay on Mormons. All right. So in my experience, when you point out that the Salvation Army sucks, a lot of people are fucking shocked by that. Right.

The Salvation Army is a lot like mother Teresa in that way. They've got such good PR all over the fucking country that for many people, they're the very metric of goodness that other good things are measured against. Right. I mean, salvation is right there in the name. So I think if you asked, most people would know that they're a religious organization, but I think the overwhelming majority of Americans don't know that they are a church. When people drop money into those red kettles, they think that they, that they've just made a charitable donation, not a tithe, but a tie is what they made. And,

and when their charitable obligations come into conflict with their religious obligations, the religious obligations always win. Right. Because if you're desired to help people is more important than the rules of your invisible friend, you just start a fucking charity. That's all you do. You just do the charity. Yep. Or just don't vote republic. That's another option to accomplish that. Just don't record in this early. So we don't know how funny that isn't yet. That'd be funny. So like that to be fun. That would be nice. So to be clear, there's very little about charity or good works in the Salvation Army's theology. They're a Protestant denomination. So they believe

that you get to heaven by saying the magic Jesus words not by doing good things. Members of their church are officially governed by a list of 11 doctrines as well. And not a damn one of them says anything at all about charity or goodwill or helping other human beings. They still do charity work, of course, but they're under no religious obligation to keep doing it. And more importantly, they're under no legal obligation

to keep doing it either. Pin in things they're not legally obligated to do. Yeah. We'll comeated to do. Yeah. All right. We'll come back to that. Now all that being said, I should point out that they had they like they tend to have a high ranking with cherry ranking groups that list them, not all of those groups do, however, because they're not actually a charity and therefore they don't have to release their numbers. They do release a lot more of their financial information than most churches, but way less than any charity.

For example, we have no fucking clue how much they pay any of their executives, right? So when sites like charity watch give them an A minus ranking, keep in mind that they're doing so with incomplete information and what's more, since nobody can audit that information, they also just have to trust whatever the church tells them to a substantial degree. That last sentence is religion in a nutshell. And then fucking a that's just like telling the world you're a multi billionaire and then I know maybe you run for president and then refuse to show anyone your tax returns. It's like that. Sorry, the charity can't pee when we're looking as I was just Charity can't pee when we're looking as I said

That's cool totally got it anyway unrelated close your eyes. I'm gonna make a big donation into your bucket right now But so but even if you believe their numbers and you assume that they're not overspending on salaries That does not make them a good charity, right? It's it's it there's more to it than dollars brought in and dollars spent on actual charitable shit because they're anti-LGBTQ bigots, right? And a part of what you do is promote bigotry. I don't give a fuck what else you do. You're not getting my money. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hot take. If part of what you do is promote bigotry, that's what you do. Everything else is an excuse for that thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Exactly. Now, of course, the Salvation Army is a savvy organization when it comes to their public image. So they've pushed back hard against the accusation that they're homophobic and transphobic. They spent a lot of time telling us, for example, that they provide services to LGBTQ people all the time, right? And while that might put them ahead of the average, church is sure the hell isn't enough to dismiss the charge of homophobia, especially when in 2012, they sought to clarify their stance by releasing an official positional statement on homosexuality. Now already that's a fucking red flag, right? I mean, citation needed has never felt the need to release a positional statement on who other people fuck, right?

People who aren't big, it's pretty much never have to do that. Okay, but while we're on the subject, can we get into that? Because I have some firm and problematic opinions. I doubt that it's all that firm. Absolutely not. So, but so he hears the heart of the current statement on that subject. Quote, the Bible teaches that God's intentions for humankind as the society should be ordered on the basis of lifelong legally sanctioned heterosexual unions. A disposition towards homosexuality is not in its self-blame worthy, nor is the disposition

seen as rectifiable at will. Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down their Harvey Milk relax. But they do he's goes on to say quote, homosexual practice, however, is in the light of scripture clearly unacceptable. Such activity is chosen behavior and is thus a matter of will. It is therefore able to be directed or restrained in the same way that heterosexual urges are controlled. Homosexual practice would render any person ineligible for full, for full membership in parentheses, soldier ship in the army. End quote. Yeah, that tortured prose.

It just, it reads a lot like, look, I get it. Sometimes you just want to bone some dude at the rest stop outside of Akron, but Larry, Larry, I'm telling you, I read the whole book and we are not allowed. Yeah. And it tells you a lot, they feel the need to break it to you that you can't come into their tree house at the end. Right. But yeah, so okay, whatever.

Come in him. You can't come in here. Yeah. Right. That's so much pithier, Tom. You should really lend them that. But yeah, so okay, whatever. They don't ask how gay people are when they like check into a homeless shelter, and they think they deserve a pat on the back for that. And in addition to some of their best

friends being gay, they also point out that even though the Civil Rights Act doesn't apply to them, the Salvation Army in the US, quote, does not discriminate against hiring gaze and lesbians for the majority of its roughly 55,000 jobs. And quote, the majority. Yeah, yeah. And by the way, whether or not they refuse to help LGBTQ people, they fought a number of times to ensure that it continues to be legal for them to do so if they choose to. Yes.

And as we just mentioned, that quote implies that for some percentage of their jobs, they don't discriminate. Yeah, more than a pie. Yeah. Higher black people for most of the jobs in our company. Do you hear it now, guys? Do you hear it when I say it? They don't.

They, again, they present that like that something they deserve to be patted on the back for. Now, they've also famously fought against laws to protect LGBTQ people in general. Perhaps most memorably in 1986, they heavily campaigned in New Zealand against the homosexuality law reform act, which sought to decriminalize homosexuality. About 20 years later, by the way, they finally got around to issuing a half ass apology for that. They also continue to fight against laws that would force them to extend spousal benefits to same sex spouses for the LGBTQ employees that they do like decide not to discriminate against.

They also withdrew their support from an anti-bullying campaign in Australian schools when they realized it was focused on countering anti-LGBTQ bullying. Yeah, Catholic church did the same thing. They put out a whole document about it. They called it the papal bull. He's absolutely. they put out a whole document about it. They called it the Apple bull. Well, and and less do you think that their bigotry is restricted to LGBTQ people. I should also point out that they recently had to retract their positional statement against racism because their membership pushed back against it and accused the organization of promoting

critical race theory. Okay. So to be clear, the original statement in question just encouraged people to quote, lament, repent, and apologize for biases or racist ideologies held and actions committed and quote, and that was so controversial that they eventually retracted it. No, no, no. Okay, everyone. So our new official position is to not be sorry for being racist. Fuck, I wish we'd stop saying our sentences mean our God. But not all of their controversies are based on bigotry. Some of them are just stupid like in 2010 when the Salvation Army and Calgary, Alberta refused to accept toys based on Harry Potter and Twilight because because of the devil was Satan. Yeah, one of the employees even told news outlets that such toys were destroyed. Oh good one. When they received them, though the larger

organization pushed back on that when they realized how evil Destroyer of free toys that were donated by people for poor kids Sounded. Yeah, they couldn't they couldn't just said they were casualties in the salvation wars. Yeah, that would Yeah, headquarters would have loved that And as if they were seeking some kind of triple K trifecta by the way They're also bigoted along religious lines Although that damn near goes without saying when you're dealing with a church. And while they'll officially say that they provide a to anybody regardless of their religion,

they do so with the state of goal of changing that religion if it's not already Protestant Christian. So, you know, so much so in fact that they were sued. Their New York division was sued in 2004 for proselytizing during government funded social work, which was illegal back then. I mean, I technically still is until this iteration of the Supreme Court chimes in on it.

But in 2004, you could sue people over that and have some reasonable assurance that something would happen. And in this case, it did that the lawsuit itself was dismissed, but the state did make some changes. And in 2010, they set up new rules to ensure that couldn't keep going on on the taxpayers time. and in 2010, they set up new rules to ensure that couldn't keep going on on the taxpayers time. Just a red face bigot in a fake army uniform at the front just screaming not to tell you

about damn nation. Almost people are like nice. Nice. This is much better. I bet he's doing a great job right now. Hey, man, thanks for doing this great charity work. Makes me really think, you know, I'm just looking for answers about, I don't know, the way the truth lies to you.

Ah! Ah! Are you okay? Ah! Ah! Ah! But so, okay, but not all of their controversies are bigotry related, of course.

They've also been heavily criticized for their use of unpaid labor. No, and I'm not just talking about volunteers here, by the way. So like in the UK, the Salvation Army's thrift shops participate in the UK government's work program, which is, it's like a program, but it has some privileged letters added to the end, which means this program. But that means that benefit claimants must work for like no compensation for 20 to 40 hours a week for the Salvation Army for periods

that can last as long as six months. What? Well, you know what they always say, nothing cares poverty like working for free. For free, yeah, exactly. But this is not their only use of damn near slave labor, by the way, they also operate arcs or adult rehabilitation centers where they offer addicts a place to stay and food to eat for periods of up to six months and exchange. They are expected to work full time jobs at Salvation Army stores, warehouses, or residences.

So it's like a job except that you get paid well below minimum wage and you have to attend church services or you get kicked out of your home. They advertise that program, by the way, with the slogan, doing the most good. Hey, it's me, a spokesman guy from the racism before, um, hey, guys, do you want to describe our program that's literally identical to slavery as the most, okay, we're calling it the most good, our slaves, most good. And of course, let's call you west. The Jewish state. And of course, and of course, like pretty much every church's controversy subheading on Wikipedia,

the Salvation Army also has a section on raping children and then covering it up. There's that pin, everybody. We found that. Listen, there it is. Yeah. So this one comes from Australia, where allegedly over 500 of the 30,000 kids that the Salvation Army sheltered between the 40s and the 80s were victims of sexual abuse by the church's ministers and or employees.

And while they vehemently deny that number, they don't deny the accusation itself. And since they privately settled some 474 abuse claims for 15.5 million total Australian dollars, I don't know where the fuck they get off arguing about the number either. I had to bring so many of those padlock buckets to court to pay off that settlement. I mean, to be fair, that one guy was wearing the bell as a belt buckle. So that's on the kids, right? That one guy on the couch. Okay.

Yeah. I knew this wasn't on the up and up on the Salvation Army Santa wanted me to son his face. What's Australia? I got seats look good. I know. I feel good. Yeah. And look, a lot of people might listen to this and accuse me of judging the Salvation Army

through two harsh allets, right? Any organization as long and as old and as spread out worldwide as they are is bound to have a pile of controversies that sound really bad when you list them all in one podcast episode. So it's natural to ask at this point whether the world is better off without the Salvation Army, right? Like it. So if's natural to ask at this point whether the world is better off without the Salvation Army. Right? Like it. So if they disappeared tomorrow, there would be far fewer homeless shelters and charity shops in the world. But in my mind, those could be replaced, right? I like those those would be replaced. And mostly by secular groups that wouldn't have to then compete with the bazillion dollar endowments and NFL level

advertising that the Salvation Army has. And anytime that you could replace an institutionally homophobic thing with anything else, you probably should. Okay, but gay conversion camps are job creators. Read a book. He, he, he, what do we say about reading the Republican Party platform on the air? Yeah, we say they, they don't have one, but don't give them ideas for talking points, right? That's exactly exactly.

Man, I hope these jokes are funny. So all that being said, there's one historical contribution that people might want to consider before they make their minds up about the overall value of the Salvation Army because back in 1917, the Salvation Army sent over 250 female volunteers to France to provide supplies and baked goods to American soldiers that were stationed there. The soldiers eventually took to calling them the doughnut lassies because they offered, they would often serve up doughnuts that had been fried in soldiers helmets. And every source I found seems to agree that you can trace the popularity of donuts in America to this event. So without the salvation

army, we might have a shittier national breakfast pastry. I'm not sure how you want to weigh that, but you should probably weigh it more than none of the only fight more contentious than religion. Donut or Danish finally comes. Are people saying Danish is the end or that's why it's not so it's like so. It's like. The only thing I'm happy to be cancel lie will die on the Danish Hill. To the four of us are going to link donuts like the Olympic rings or whatever.

I'm going to be standing here with a fucking Danish just knocking it against the size. Is it four to one against? It's four to one Danish. It's everybody to one. Everybody. They're like four. He's Danish or donut. I really want because four people. He's like, Dennis or donut. I really want because Danishes very clearly the snobby or answer, but even I like that's

more than that. Oh my God. That's insane. I love it. I love it. They don't let poor people have Danishes. I love them. Danishes.

So superior to the dog. Okay. Let's make Tom be quiet. If you had to summarize what you learned in one sense, what would it be? No. You're better off donating that money to modest needs.org. Quick before time runs out to get your vulgarity for charity donation. And we have two more days.

People make it a record. Come on. Agree. And Dan is sure like the cantaloupe of the breakfast. That is an outrageous thing to say. Arrange it. They're like the honeydew melon. They were trying to do it for you. Yes, absolutely.

I will be there four hours. We're 500%. All right. Noah, can you tell me which of the following is not one of the 11 tenants of the Salvation Army verbatim? A, we believe that the scriptures of the old and new testament were given by inspiration of God, and that they only constitute the divine rule of Christian faith and practice. B, we believe that there is only one God who is infinitely perfect, the creator,

preserver, and governor of all things, and who is the only proper object of religious worship. C, we believe that our first parents were created in a state of innocency, but by their disobedience, they lost their purity and happiness, and that in consequence of their fall, all men have become sinners, totally depraved, and as such are just the exposed to the wrath of God. D literally anything about helping people or share it. It's gonna be D. That D's gonna be the answer. Yeah. So I would I read that sentence here. I was like, Oh, no, it's making a fun. I looked them up. They're the last thing a guy emails us before you block

him. tells us before you block him. All right, no, you've been pretty harsh on the Salvation Army, but charity work is important work. So what are other alternatives? A, create a robust system of federally funded programs of transparency and accountability to avoid abuse and create workflows and economies of scale to strike the root of the systemic issues that otherwise forces the slap-hap hazard, unregulated charitable band-aid solutions and economic problems. We disingenuously label as social failings. Boom, nerd.

Be failing that. Head over to modestneeds.org. Because there's literally no chance we'll do the first thing. Yeah. That's it. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's A, upside down crossbow, B, cannon law, C, a, Tor-Tor-a-pito, D, a-heat, or a pito, C, ing missile, C, C, ing missile. Okay, right, I got- I-

I'm so desperately trying to come up with a good, hella Marp on to throw in with Toro Pito. I got nothing, but it's definitely see. Toro Pito. Correct it is Toro Pito. All right. No, I'm going to name some other Republicans who look like supervillains and you pick one. As a question.

Sure. Hey, Mitch McConnell looks like wet scarecrow. Like the burlap. So good. It's all G. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Gooface.

He's goofy. It's like two face B. Marco Rubio looks like Kingpin's fetus in a wig. See? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cruz looks like Wolverine's only weakness was a really bad divorce in his 50s. And now he's evil. Yeah. Or D. Steve Bannon is crang. He better. I will never not see that. Yes. Wow. God. Yeah, or D Steve Benin is crank Steve Benin is crank Oh, never not see that Yes, wow Gosh

Oh Is this secret answer E all of the above? It is E all the above Well done Wow I thought it Thought it might be Noah, you win this week

All right, well I think we can all agree It's been too long since the last heat that say So I'm gonna nominate heat All right, well for Tom, Heath, Eli, and, I'm Cecil, thank you for hanging out with us today we'll be back next week and by then, Heath will be an expert on something else. Between now and then, donate to Volgaery for charity at monisneeds.org. And if you already did that, do it again, just donate again if you did it early. And if you'd like to help keep the show going, you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com,

so citation pod or leave a surprise star of you anywhere you can. If you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes, connect with us on social media or check the show notes. Be sure to check out citationpod.com. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ And then once it was nice and covered with syrup, I would just go to townOWN on that ass, you

know what I'm saying? Fucking A, I just want to cuddle with it, I just want to lay my head on his ass like a pillow and then just go to sleep. Oh my god, that sounds amazing. You guys are really counting on the fact that Keith doesn't listen to our shows, huh? Yes we are. We, we are, yes, absolutely. really count on the fact that Keith doesn't listen to our shows, huh?

Yes, we are. We, we are, yes, absolutely. A donkey donkey.