Citation Needed - William Chaloner and Victor Lustig

Episode Date: April 10, 2019

William Chaloner (1650 – 22 March 1699)[1][2] was a serial counterfeit coiner and confidence trickster, who was imprisoned in Newgate Prison several times and eventually proven guilty of high treason by Sir Isaac Newton, Master of the Royal Mint. He was hanged on the gallows at Tyburn on 22 March 1699.[1][3]   Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.

So the Hulk is Loki. No, no Bruce banner is Loki and that's why you can't turn into the Hulk. Where's the Hulk? I don't know. I don't know what to find out and Then you give me 30% of your income. I will make you a t-shirt. We can't afford not to do this Tom We got to do it right. I was sold when he told us we were grandfather. Yeah, we got to do it, right? I was sold when he told us we were grandfathered. Yeah, we had to do it. Guys, guys, Horz, what are you doing? No, Cecil, Cecil, I know what this is. Okay, every time we do an episode about a con man or something, Eli has to trick Tom and Heath into some wacky scheme.

No, no, actually, look, I get it. It's thematic, but Tom, Heath, you guys have to know this. No, actually, he's, it's something he's not, no, he's, Eli is not starting a new business or offering you a great opportunity. He's conning you. Noah! Listen. Yes. Yes, Tom. I was just reading the new Patreon terms of service email. Oh, oh, carry on then. Sorry. Right. So as I was saying, when you get a dollar, now they'll only take a nickel instead of 90 cents. Wow, well, that's nice of them. Right? And they're going to answer our emails.

Oh, stop drilling because you have hit oil. Yeah. Hello and welcome to Sightation Needed. The podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and pretend we're experts. Is this the internet? That's how it works now. I'm Eli and I'll be Bosnick. But I'll need some co-conspirators. First up, two men whose greatest trick was convincing the devil he didn't exist Cecil and Noah. I'm with the cart none of you exist. I'll say what, I once convinced a computer it was Alan Turing. And also joining us tonight. Two men who've never met and all you can eat, they can't scam.

Heath and Tom. Dude, everything is all you can eat if you bring enough coupons. They have to give it to you. Alright, it's not a scam. Everyone knows if you lick it, you claimed it. Also some joke about food. Now, before we begin tonight, I want to take a moment to thank our patrons. You are the reason that we can do this show and now we need you more than ever. If you'd like to learn how to

join their ranks, stick around to the end of the show. So tell us Cecil, what person, place, thing, concept, phenomenon, or event will we be talking about today? There's a double feature of two of history's great con artists, William Schalner and Victor Lustig. Now Keith, you did not write about a disturbing insight into your personal life this week. Are you a famous con man? And if you'd like to pay for this free MP3, we're putting down checkout Patreon. So who's up first? All right.

We're going to go in chronological order, starting with William Scheloner, who was a con man, counterfeit money expert, fake doctor, real fake, sooth sayer, sex toy entrepreneur, and false flag political operative who made a large fortune by tricking stupid people in 17th century England, and also selling a medal dicks. Regardless of their intelligence, just to everybody. He's pretty much my favorite 17th century con man dildo salesman. That's great. He's your favorite then.

We're there with a lot of choices like a series of baseball cards maybe for 17th century con man dildo salesman. It's what comes back. It's with those baseball cards. That's that makes me curious. It's not gum. It can't be gum. You find ways to use the gum.

It's fun. This come never loses its flavor. Also, Dorded Dordado salesman, another job loss to the MeToo generation. Thank you. Thank you. That guy also turns a penny into a corkscrew. It's, Eela, you remember when you thought this episode wouldn't contain disturbing insights into Heath's personal life? That was fun. That's going to do. So, Shalota was born in Warwickshire, England in 1650 to a weaver and a lady married to a weaver. And he was almost immediately a giant pain in

the ass. Unfortunately for his parents, this was a little before the invention of medicinal kid meth, like Adderall. So they had lots of trouble controlling Little William. And apparently the 17th century version of Adderall was child slave labor. So they sent him away to be an apprentice for a nail maker in Birmingham. Well, nothing's going to make you pay attention, like losing a finger and a loom or something, you know, you know, my kid has trouble concentrating. Maybe a job in the repetitive danger factory will,

too well, might help the parents. So I know repetitive danger factory is the name of my rush cover band, please check it out. That's just my review of Russian general. So, she learned all about making metal into a sharp stick. Not a long internship. That was done. And you should realize that making metal into nails was a stupid job, especially when the same amount of metal could be made into so many other things that are worth more money. Like for example, money.

So he decided to pivot from nails into coins and that worked out great because Birmingham was notorious at the time for being a major source of counterfeit coining. So he worked with some locals and mastered fake coining and then decided to start his own operation. Oh, so he actually turned a corkscrew into a penny. Eli was almost right. He went from eight pennies to fake pennies. I get it. Yeah. That old adage have no pennies. Make a penny. Need a penny? Make another penny. You just made one. You should be good. So with Birmingham already being full of quenning operations, Shaloner decided to head for

London, but when he got there, the craftsman guild system prevented him from finding a metal working job where he could start stealing their stuff to make his own inspiration happen. And you know, this is why nobody likes unions. They fuck over con men. Mr. Staphoff. Yeah. That's the main thing. Yeah.

But this was only a small roadblock. Shloner quickly found himself a small shop of his own and started producing tin watches and selling them on the street. And what's the best way to distinguish your watches from all the other ones? You put a dick inside. I've been saying that for a year. So that's what he did. That question answers itself.

Exactly. in that for a year. That's what he did. That question answers it's. Yeah. Which podcast. Put it inside. Yeah. So, um, it's a solution to so many problems. The cause of so many problems. Yeah. Right. Does a replacement for so many problems. And we know that it's all thanks to William Shalone. Yeah. So his tin watches were really just a case for holding a dildo. As you can imagine, that means you're either making a really large, dick-shaped watch or a very unsatisfying dildo. So this venture only lasted for a little while.

There's that one lady with a giant Flavaflave dildoclock. She's a fool. And anybody you're not fooling anybody. She looks down her sec. Oh, would you look at the time? Dick 30 again. How come it's always noon when my sister comes home? How come it's always noon when my sister comes home? So the, the Dickwatch thing was fading away and Shalomers started thinking about which of his skills was the most valuable. And he realized that manufacturing fake metal coins was pretty good, but the most important

part was the art of lying to stupid people. That was the real key. So he became the 17th century Andrew Wakefield at this point. As we all know, quack doctors still make money in 2019. So you can imagine how easy that was in the 1600s. See ladies, this is a Jade clock in the shape of an egg. That's the key. Yeah. I just, I reject any century where a man who's prevented the dildo watch still has to go out looking for marketable skills better now. Better world. Yep. And while you're giving people fake medical care, you might as well offer to tell them about the future too. So in addition to the doctor service, he also offered

Sooth saying at this point. Yeah, my doctor tries the same scam. He's all like you'll be dead in six months And I'm like, okay, Karnak Johnny Carson reference his wife All right, so she'll own his favorite angle was looking into the future and telling people where they should go to recover something that was stolen from them. And in some sense, he was able to predict the future because his technique was, quote, to steal the thing in the first place.

That's pretty good system. He started that one early like, oh, you can't find your orgasm. Check the cloth. Check the cloth. Check the cloth. So the quack doctor and psychic burglar thing lasted for a while, but he eventually went back to metal working. And that's when his con man career started really taking off. And the problems with the English currency system set up the perfect environment for more

coining scams. One of the big issues at the time was something called clipping. Silver coins were being clipped around the edges to get extra value out of them. So the Royal Mint decided to prevent this by producing coins with a milled edge and with special engraving. So Shaloner decided to produce coins with a milled edge and with special engraving. Yeah, they really should have seen that comment. Okay, wait a minute, just to clarify. So then his whole thing is that he made coins that would look like the original coins. Like, were the other counter fitters skipping that step in the calm?

Tom, this is the 1600s. Most counter fitters just wrote money on a piece of paper. Not a great time. Yeah. So, Shalomers coin operation was pretty simple. He learned all the milling and edging techniques from a local goldsmith edging techniques. I thought he got out of the dildo business. Okay. Wait, what's edging? Is that a sex thing? Oh, look at you. What's edging? What is that? Beautiful. I'm holding your face in my hands, right?

Get up on the internet after we're done. I'm not going to hold your hand every time you don't understand sex, though, Keith. Is that like missing? I feel like you're talking about missing. You like a rim shot? Is that off the backboard? Somebody tell me what edging is. No, none of you know what this is.

You're all lying. You guys made something up. That's fine. That's fine. I'm not Googling it right now. I am just getting ready for my next little detail that I'm going to tell you about in a second. And you guys in a second.

And you guys are stalling. I know about edging. I just didn't know what I just didn't know what I'd do. I also. I also. So Shaloners coin operation. He learned the, you know, the milling and the edging, the metal edging from a goldsmith and he employed a master engraver to handle the die casting. Then he added to the profit margin by using cheaper metals and gilding them with the precious metals. And the final step was selling the fake coins in bulk to petty criminals who would get them into circulation. According to biographer Sir John Craig, Shaloners fake coins were so good that quote, it galled him to spoil their perfection by use, but you know, that's stupid. So he, he used them and he quickly became wealthy. Yeah, and now when we sell money to criminals, we call that a mortgage security.

So, so world. Thanks to Shalotter and some other coining gangs, by the 1690s, forged money represented about 10% of the total British currency. You know, the charges. The other coining gang, 50 cent. That's who is obvious. running gang 50 cent. That's who is. Obviously. And there was another problem for the treasury at the time, the value of the silver itself, when sold at the metal exchange markets in Paris and Amsterdam was noticeably higher than the face value of the money in England. And people were taking the coins abroad and melting them down for a profit. So the parliament reacted by creating

the Bank of England, increasing security at the mint and asking for expert advice on how to stop all the counterfeiting. And that's when Shaloner graciously offered his services as a currency security expert. Oh, I'm sorry gentlemen, may, I stopped punching you in the face for a second to sell you some carotene. I love this. Maybe a good first step to combating this would be to make your money worth at least as much as what you make your money with. Someone you're going to say on pennies to break Tom's heart. Or dollars. Yeah.

So it's, um, she'll owner put together a pamphlet describing his solution to the currency problem, suggesting deeper engravings, deeper edging and, um, showy, showy, but I like where he's headed. It's fine. I get what you mean by that now. And I always did. I've always, I knew the word now. And I always did. I've always did. I've always did.

I knew the word now, and I've always done that. I started deep as deep as this is necessary, whatever the edge side with normal average. Edge we use. 4 inches. You didn't say anything. School of Golan. Squirrel.

Squirrel dinosaur. Diameter. And like a roller nickel. And so he was suggesting deeper engravings, deeper edging and new machines that would only be given to officially licensed metal workers like himself. And this got him invited to speak with the King's special treasury council, where Shelon nominated himself to become the overseer of the Royal Mint. But apparently this was literally the first time ever that Shelon had dealt with one single

intelligent person in all of England. And the Treasury decided to start its own investigation, which eventually led to Shalomers arrest. But he managed to get released by ratting out all the people inside the mint who were involved in the counterfeit business that he obviously knew about from the counterfeit business. It also didn't hurt that he had a few surplus dildo watches to spread around, but yeah. A real quick, just curious, he, was he dressed like a fox at the time of his interview? Cause that seems like a dead giveaway at the head of the job. Yeah.

So Shloner learned his lesson after being jailed. And that lesson was the government is stupid and paranoid and super easy to scam by marking on political dissidents. So he decided to start a new career in the Ajahn provocateur sector. And he pulled this off by focusing on the Jacobite movement, which was a group that wanted to overthrow King William III and put the house of Stewart back in power. So Shloner became a fake Jacobite, a fake a bite, a fake a bite, beautiful, and talk them into doing a bunch of Jacobite stuff. And then told on them to

get a reward from the king. And then weren't the Jacobites already just doing Jacobite stuff? Wouldn't that just be their stuff? Yeah, but he was like, do actually like everybody print some Jacobite pamphlets just right now. I don't know why it's really important that you do it right now and do it and have them at this place. And they'd all pass them out and he'd get them arrested. And so that was working for a while. But when that wasn't making enough money, Shloner just made up Jacobite plans that weren't really happening at all and told the government he could for the plan and then for the plan. Also, before you write in, we're aware that it's pronounced jacko bataille. So we don't need. Okay. We get it.

This guy is the human incarnation of a solution in search of a problem. Like also I love him. That's just I love. Also, he's pretty obviously a highlander and known today as Steve Bannon. So, so yeah, the, uh, Ajahn provocateur gig was going all right. But after about a year, Shalana was like, huh, uh, you know what worked out great fake money. That was like way better. It was just like really direct. And this coincided perfectly with the introduction of 100 pound paper notes, which were printed on Marbled Paper in England. He went to the Marbled Paper store and bought a whole bunch of Marbled Paper and started making counterfeit bills. He also invented

a liquid that could remove the ink from small bills so he making counterfeit bills. He also invented a liquid that could remove the ink from small bills so he could print larger bills. And apparently the British government didn't think to make this a felony until about two years later. Regardless, Shaloners fake bills got noticed within about two months and he got arrested again. And once again, he ratted out a bunch of other associates and the government was cool with him. He even got a formal thank you from the Bank of England, a reward of 200 pounds. And he got to keep all the problems he made by counterfeiting their bills. Paul Manafort and Michael Cohen are like, we're not worthy.

We're not worthy. I don't even mean to victim blame here, but I'm rooting for Schellener at this point. This is just he earned it. So Schellener somehow out of jail again, and he realized that the government never said anything about not making counterfeit lottery tickets. So he made a bunch of counterfeit lottery tickets for the lottery on the malt duty. It sounds like a weird lottery, but whatever, he made some more money on that.

This has malt O'Neill ticket. I'm not a malt O'Neill joke. I just love that like, hold on, I can make fake anything was like a big revelation for this guy. So lottery ticket thing eventually got Shaloner jailed again. And unfortunately, the one mildly intelligent guy at the treasury, finally decided it was time to really build a case against Shaloner. And the government realized at this point that they also had literally

one of the most intelligent people in history on their team. And that would be Isaac Newton. So they got him. Not smart enough to get laid, just saying or smart enough to not get laid. Thank you. It's intelligence. There's the edging. You wait. There's you. Oh, so they were like, Hey, Isaac Newton, um, stop inventing calculus for a second and help us hang this counterfeit guy. So noon was like, all right, cool. And he took a derivative and the slope of the tangent line was putting together a giant network of shaloners associates to be informants and rat out the guy who kept getting free by

ratting out his giant network of associates. And it worked. Huh. Shaloner was, what on trial? Isaac Motherfuckin Newton was the prosecutor. And the jury spent all of three minutes deliberating before declaring Shaloner guilty. And he was hanged on March 22nd, 1699. According to biographer Thomas Levinson, who wrote a great book about this called Newton and the counterfeiter. The Newton, according to Levinson, quote, Scholloner twitched and writhed for several minutes of the hangman's dance, whilst stinking, wet, cold, and mercilessly sober." And quote, no death whiskey is cruel. That is meant the end of a Shloner story. Well, that fun story of fake money and lottery tickets

took an insanely dark turn at the end. There, so let's all gather around the fire to warm up with a little ditty we like to call apropos of nothing. Ta-da! What? What are they? We call them the tether. It-it's a clone. Well, it's a clone without a soul. Souls aren't real, Alan.

They don't-they could be. You don't know. Uh, I do though. I know. Gentlemen, gentlemen. What do they do? Right, right. So, you know how you wanted us to make these puppets that do whatever the people we copied do? No, no, right. So you know how you wanted us to make these puppets that do whatever the people we copied do?

No, no, no, I wanted you to make clones that would allow us to puppet the people we copied. I feel like that's the same thing. Yeah, you just said the same thing. Yeah, you just said you did same thing. No, no, no, no, I didn't, no, I didn't. You guys made clones that copy people. I wanted you to make clones that make people copy them so we can control them, get it? Oh, oh, so people copy them. For the control, that's a cool idea. I didn't really know what you were.

Yeah. Okay, so we did not do that. So what did you do? Well, okay, so you know the the stop copying me game. Yes, that we made that for all of America, but worse like significantly worse. Yeah, okay, okay. Okay, guys, this this project is an obvious failure. I hate to say it. You know what you have to do. Uh, leave him here with a multi generational supply of rabbits and a red jumpsuit factory. Exactly. That's exactly. That's a good idea to me. That's a good try, everybody.

Did my best and that's all that matters. Well, that really was Appropole of Nothing. So tell us, Heath, who was Victor Lister. Nope. We're gonna say Victor Lustig. It's spelled like that. I'm sure it's pronounced differently. He's from Austria-Hungary.

Anyway, Victor Lustig was a con man, again, from Austria-Hungary, who ran a series of scams throughout Europe and the United States during the early 20th century. Much like William Schloner, his name isn't very well known, but he's widely regarded as one of the greatest con artists in all of history. And he's responsible for three of my favorite cons of all time. The first is when he managed to sell a box that could allegedly create a perfect copy of any unit of currency that you put inside of the box. The second is when he sold the Eiffel Tower. And the third is when he sold the Eiffel Tower again. That's so stupid.

Did that twice, like seriously. He's pretty much my favorite 20th century counterfeit money Eiffel Tower salesman. He's pretty great. I got a rewind. He said he had a box to copy any unit of currency that he would sell for currency. I'm intrigued. It's the perfect Wall Street strategy, but I don't use it myself. I can't.

So I'm selling your book. Yeah. So Victor Lustig was born as Robert V. Miller in Hostine Austria-Hungary in 1890. As a child, he was a gifted student and during his travels around Europe, including his time at a university in Paris, he learned to speak several different languages. And after leaving school, he decided the best use of his skills would be either translator, He decided the best use of his skills would be either translator, a podcaster or conman. And it was conman. You know those last two aren't mutually exclusive.

I just want to say, he's, he create one podcasting network with modest do's and Cecil is just all over you. So lust, lust, lust, ex early career was mostly running scams while on board ocean liners between France and New York. This gave him access to a bunch of rich people. And he'd basically just talk them into investing in stuff that didn't exist. That was his. His soul bit coin.

Cool. That's. That's the same thing. My favorite example is when he would pose as the producer of Broadway musicals and pretend he was taking investments in a new show. And hopefully, at least in my head, this involved actually singing musical numbers from a fake production. He's like, I'm sorry to bug you, but can you spare anything?

I'm broke with home. I mean, trapped on an ocean liner and the only thing on is like a one man version of the producers, I'd give him money to stop that shit too. So it's about a series of AIDS patients who won't take their medicine or pay their rent. Yeah. Right. And their friend offers them a free place to live if they don't stage a protest of his perfectly legal

business deal, right? So they kill his girlfriend's dog. Seriously, and you're expecting this to run for like 12 years in a movie. I'm in. Me too, actually. You know what? I helped her as emotional abuse.

Sounds great. It was at some point during his ocean liner phase You know what? I helped her as emotional abuse. Sounds great. It was at some point during his ocean liner phase that Lustig decided to get rid of his given name of Robert Miller. Apparently Robert Miller was too conspicuous. So he switched to something less memorable. And the name he came up with was count Victor Lustig. Yes. But it worked. So he stuck with it for a while. I mean, it's probably a coincidence that that's an anagram of convicts guilt tour, but it is. So following World War One, the transatlantic ocean liners were pretty much all shut down for a while. Okay, wait, following World War One, the transatlantic ocean liners were pretty much all shut down for a while.

Okay, wait, following World War One, but not during World War One or shut down in a totally different way during. Yeah. Wars over shut down the ocean liners, guys. Yeah. So Lustin was forced to find a new venue for his scams, and he decided to move to the United States, where he quickly developed a reputation with law enforcement. One of his early cons that got him on the police radar was a bond-selling

scam that he pulled off in 1922 in which he convinced a bank to buy bonds for a repossessed property, had them hand him a bag of cash and then managed to use sleight of hand to walk out with the money and the bonds. I like to think he did it like David Blaine though like all slack-faced and dead-eyed and the bank just holding its hands to its face like, whoa! Yeah, I'm not sure about the con man thing like I'm not sure just stealing stuff when no one is looking as a con man. Yeah, but you know, nobody likes the name world famous steel stuff man. So do you mean thief? That is a word.

There is a word. Mediation. Yeah. All right. So that brings us to my top three Victor Lustig's games. And we'll start with the Eiffel Tower thing. So it's 1925 and Lustig is living in Paris at this point and he sees a newspaper article

about how the government was having trouble with the high upkeep costs of the tower. The article also mentioned that public opinion seemed to favor getting rid of the tower completely. So Lustig decided he was going to sell the tower to a scrap metal field. That's like it fits the glue factory owner that you really have to just give it to this old nag secretary it. Yeah, fuck the Eiffel tower. That thing's made out of iron. You have to make sure it's seasoned really well all the time. And I don't care what you say. Eggs are always going to stick to that fucking thing. Some guy is just throwing grape seed oil at the base of the tower. My aunt swears

by this stuff. You got to have a great. It's good. All right. So here's how Lustig pulled it off. I'm always disappointed by stories that start with those words. He started by hiring a document forger to make him some fake government stationery. And then he invited a handful of scrap metal dealers to a secret meeting at a fancy hotel. He used the fake documents to make him believe he was the deputy director general of the ministry of postal services and telegraphs. I'm not sure why that would put him in charge of the Eiffel Tower, but that's what he went with, and they believed him. Also, again, these metal guys were super dumb, and he was able to convince them that the

government wanted to very quietly sell the tower and that he was the person in charge of making the deal. Part of his explanation was that the Eiffel Tower is actually really ugly compared to all the other beautiful architecture in Paris, which is absolutely true. Yeah. And it worked. And they all submitted bids to purchase the Eiffel Tower from the guy in charge of postal service and telegraphs.

So yeah, these metal guys are really, really stupid, but one guy named Andre Poisson was extra stupid and lust a good tell. The guy came off as insecure, I guess, and clearly wanted to become more prominent in the business community. So Lustig chose Poisson as the final mark and invited him for another meeting during which Lustig hinted that a decent-sized bribe would definitely win the contract. Yes, amazing.

This is one of my favorite parts. Just the money for the entire fucking Eiffel Tower wasn't enough for Lustig. He got himself a bribe on top of that. Oh, amazing. And once he had the money for both the bribe and the Eiffel Tower, he fled to Austria. Fucking love this guy. He got someone to pay him a bribe to steal money from him. Like, I'm going to rob you, but only if you blow me first, that's good. That's just like that.

Right. And it got the guy in on some illegal activity. And that actually helped. So yeah, lustig's hanging out in Austria, but that was really just as an added precaution. Part of the plan was based on the idea that Poisson would be so embarrassed about getting conned that he wouldn't tell anybody about it. Also he was, you know, in on making an illegal bribe. And Lustig was absolutely right.

He monitored the French papers from Austria and saw nothing about an Eiffel Tower scam. And that's when he polished up his testicles of literal brass and went back to Paris later that same year to sell the Eiffel Tower a second time. Yes. And he was successful again. But this time the mark wasn't embarrassed enough and the con got reported to the police forcing Lusting to flee the United States, but he sold it fucking twice. He did have brass balls and his cock was a scale model of the Eiffel Tower.

Yeah. He did have brass balls and his cock was a scale model of the Eiffel Tower. So for a second, I thought he was about to go sell his brass balls to some metal scrapers too, which probably would have earned him full episode status. I shouldn't have known. It couldn't be that glorious. Yeah. So Leastix in the US now, and he's, gently cradling his balls of brass as he was want to do. And he decided it was time to run a scam on Al Capone. I'd.

So he dials the operator and he has a connect him to Al Capone's office. I guess. And he tells Al Capone the ruthless killer boss of the Chicago mafia that he wants $50,000 for a secret plan. And apparently Al Capone just said yes. And also bought some amway stuff. So Lustig took the 50 grand and put it in a safe deposit box for two months. And then he called back

Al Capone and explained that the secret deal fell through and he gave back the 50 grand thus proving his honesty. But then he explained that the failed plan left him broke and he could really use like five grand to tie him over and it worked. Al Capone just gave him $5,000 to be nice. You know, we don't talk about how nice Al Capone wasn't on. Plot twist, that was actually the five grand component earmarked for his taxes. So backfire. Yeah. Or some syphilis medication.

I guess. Yeah. Big backfire. And that brings us to the magic money box, also known as the Romanian box. I have no idea why this worked, but apparently Lustig pulled this off a whole bunch of times in a row. And here's how it went. He built a Mahogany box and somehow convinced people that it could duplicate any type of paper money that you put inside. There were two slots in the box, one for inserting the original bill and one for

inserting his special paper that would morph into whatever national currency paper it needed to. And he told everyone the magic box needed six hours to finish the copy for whatever reason. So we're my church had one of these when I was a kid only. It was a plate and then the timeline was your entire life. Yeah, right. Right. I can't help myself. Why couldn't I have been a magician back then? Just is this your card? Maybe will you be our God? Like that. We have six hours to get to the prestige. It's amazing. All right. Now this is my favorite part. In addition to the slots, the box contained a special compartment with a whole bunch of, a bunch of levers

and buttons that had to be operated just right in order to make it work. So he'd asked the mark for a bill. He'd insert the real bill and the special paper. And then I'm assuming he'd move around levers and buttons for six hours, just for his own personal music. And then he'd pull out the original bill and the alleged copy of the bill, which was obviously just another real bill that he put in there in the first place, along with a few others that the mark might choose. But in the US, it was pretty much always a hundred dollar bill that he put in there in the first place, along with a few others that the mark might choose. But in the US, it was pretty much always a hundred dollar bill that they'd pick. Once the copy was done, he'd go to the bank with the mark and have the new bill verified

as real money. And then he'd refuse to sell the magic box until the mark offered to a really high price. God, the people who believe this also thought there was really a coin behind their ear. Well, you see, I have these magic beans. Are you? Nobody thought to check the serial number. So I look like I said this lever to crew dick drawn on Ben Franklin's nose. My bad. Yeah. So this kept working.

I can't stress that enough like a bunch, but there was one notable incident in which Lustig ran the scheme on a sheriff in Texas. And it didn't work out so smoothly. As usual, they went through the whole process and the sheriff paid several thousand dollars for the box and then Lustig fled to Chicago as soon as possible. But when the sheriff realized later that it was a con, he went on a revenge-fueled man hunt for Lustig and having law enforcement connections all over the country made it way easier than for the average person. So the sheriff finally tracks him down, but Lustig convinces the guy that he was just doing

the levers wrong. Amazing. He also gives the guy a bunch of cash as an apology for, you know, explaining the instructions badly. So the sheriff went away happy, at least until he got arrested by a different police department for passing the counterfeit cash that lusty gave him. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, okay, I see why I went wrong. I'm not going to. Wait, let me start again. So I hunt down the guy who sold it to me to kill him, right?

What do you mean worse? Stop it. And speaking of counterfeiting, Lustig eventually started a whole counterfeit operation of his own in 1930. This lasted for five years and produced thousands of dollars worth of fake bills every month. But he slipped up when his mistress found out he was cheating on her with another mistress. And she called the police and told him about a few suspicious details. He must have let slip women. So so on May 10th, 1935, Victor Lustig got arrested by federal agency in New York and they

found $51,000 of fake money in his locker in the Times Square subway station. But he wasn't quite done yet. The day before his trial, he faked an illness and used a makeshift rope to climb out the window of the jail he was in and he fled to Pittsburgh. But they tracked him down a month later and he got sent to Alcatraz for a 20-year sentence during which time he died of pneumonia, about 12 years in. It shows up to Alcatraz. It's like, oh my gosh, ow, you're here. Listen, I need five grand. I got five grand. And one last detail about Victor Lustig, he's often credited as the source of something called

the 10 commandments for con men. And here's the list. One, be a patient listener. It is this not fast talking that gets a con man his coos. Two, never look bored. Three, wait for the other person to reveal any political opinions, then agree with that. Or let the other person reveal religious views, then have the same ones. Great one. Five hint at sex talk, but don't follow it up unless the other person shows a strong interest. Feel like a lot of guys need that advice. Not just on that. Yeah, that's just a good single commandment for men.

Six, never discuss illness unless some special concern is shown. Seven, never pry into a person's personal circumstances. They'll tell you all eventually. Eight, never boast. Just let your importance be quietly obvious. Nine, never be untidy and 10, never get drunk. Boonard. Yeah. These are the same like the same rules you could use at a work cocktail party for the what is the difference? Yeah. Well, and now the audience knows why we had to choose this line of work instead.

Not looking tidy bullshit. So he if you had to summarize what you learned in one sentence, what would it be? Conman should all retire one con earlier and they'd all do so much with this one last job though. You heard him, fellow series finale of of citation needed. Are you ready for the quiz? Ready for the quiz. All right, he, I'm going to go first. What's a good name for your coin counterfeit gang? A, two bit hoods. B, raging bullions. C, chapter 13 or D, hell's changels. That's too cute. But I know it's got to be be raging bullions. That's fantastic. Okay.

All right. Sure. Excellent. All right. Heath. I mean, very obviously stealing is wrong. And we shouldn't celebrate the people who do it unless they leveraged a map composed of states populated by imbicils.

So it's a subtle B. There's a collection plate along book, no one reads and a guy wearing a silly hat a and B might be B or see your friend is absolutely sure you can make six figures working. It's D all above. It's gotta be sure. Yeah. Excellent. Excellent. All right. So I feel like we didn't spend enough time on the victims this week. So if the listeners feel the same way, he's, which of the following memoirs of Lustig and Schellen's victims, would you say best captures there forgotten story? A, no country for dumb men by Sheriff Barnard McCoy. Be, I fall in love with the dream by Andre Poisson. Or see the fuck you looking at by Al Capone. It's gotta be, I full and love. That's fantastic. Okay,

but that's right. As long as you tell me, does his last name mean fish? It does mean fish. Yep. Okay. Yeah. That's why he's a great. Okay. Yeah. No, then you're right. You're right. Yep. Well, he you got him. All right. That means you are this week's winner fantastic next week. I'm I'm picking Noah All right. Yes, you will get the pie episode that Heath promised All right, well for Noah Tom Heath and Cecil Ami line begging you for hanging out with us today We'll be back next week and by then Noah will be an expert on something else between Between now and then you can listen to Noah and Tom's show No You Shut Up exclusively on the scripture pranum. He has restarted his YouTube channel What the Hell Do You Do All Day and don't miss these shows. New show on the history channel I can hit

that with a sword. I also have a blog and if you'd like to help keep this show going you can make a per episode donation at patreon.com slash citation pod. Or leave us a five star review everywhere you can. And if you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes, connect with us on social media, or check the show notes. Be sure to check out citationpod.com. And remember, no food for fascists. [♪ INTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ My own personal 20-something who got the job a year ago to tell me how to run my own business?

Yes, for just 15% of your income. A steal! It's a steal, guy!