Citation Needed - William Penn Patrick, Multi-Level Marketing Pioneer

Episode Date: November 20, 2019

William Penn Patrick (March 31, 1930 – June 9, 1973) was an American entrepreneur and businessman. He was the owner of Holiday Magic, Leadership Dynamics, and Mind Dynamics. Patrick was a proponent of the sour grapes philosophy, and has been widely quoted as stating: "Those who condemn wealth are those who have none and see no chance of getting it."[4] Our theme song was written and performed by Anna Bosnick. If you’d like to support the show on a per episode basis, you can find our Patreon page here.  Be sure to check our website for more details.  

Wonder what Eli has in store this week. So I followed your plan and I got two leads, man. No, I see. I told you Cecil, you can do it. It's a really great system, right? Guys, what's going on? Well, he's got this amazing pickup system that he sold me and I've always wanted a mistress. I'm sorry, how long has always? Well, like, what since, man, like 92 maybe?

Wait, when were you married? 2000. So you wanted a mistress eight years before you were married? You know me, no, I like to be prepared for stuff. Yeah, exactly. So Cecil, tell me about your leads. So I swiped right on everybody. Oh, you swiped right on every single one.

Is that what I said? Yeah, when I open the app up now, it just shows me a picture where the sidewalk ends. There's nothing here. Okay, it's just okay. And you got two people who responded. What'd you say to those people? Well, the first one I used,

your patented pickup on book. I'm still waiting for her to send a message back. The other one said me a message and asked what I was packing. Excellent. Did you send back a picture? Yeah, I totally did. I sent a photo of my favorite sword I own. It's a replica from the Walls collection.

Really nice. Cost them hand. Not what we discussed. Herped hard and graved and bladed. It says, it says says draw me not an anger It's wait. I'm sorry. He did did she send anything back nothing nothing yet been like 14 days listen I'm telling you what I sold you so far is great and all but this other system Called pick up puns to that's where it's at pretty soon

You'll have a mistress and that mistress will recruit other mistresses. You see what I'm saying? It's totally worth $1,000. It's a whole, like, that sounds geometric shape. No, that's no sold. That sounds amazing. You know, with something that awesome,

you gotta be swimming in it. He's actually just paying you in condoms, right? You know? Ha, ha, ha. Yeah, yeah. No, a check will be fine though. Just like regular money. Hello and welcome, the citation needed. The podcast where we choose a subject, read a single article about it on Wikipedia and

pretend we're experts, because this is the internet, and that's how it works now. I'm Eli, and I'll be building you of your ignorance today, but I'll need a rag tag crew to pull off this con First up three men who have officially been banned from corporate retreats Tom Cecil and Heath Okay, I'm just saying it's not an open bar if you can't order drinks a handle at a time That's a bullshit and people get super judgy when you insist on trust falling naked. It's like what the fuck And for words I did a trust fall with my soccer team in high school and they dropped me.

Yeah. That happened. The coach was like, so what did you learn? You know, the weight, yep, I am. I have a weight problem. Yeah. The coach was he standing. I know, it was a whole thing.

Also joining us tonight, a guy who never had to worry about the invitation in the first place to know the reasons. Right, but yeah, but a lack of an invitation never stopped me from declining formally before. So. Now, before we begin tonight, I'd like to take a chance to thank our patrons.

If it weren't for your generosity, we'd be forced to fake a large charity drive once a year to bolster our income. It's just that. It's not funny to know. Please do. Fake websites. That's not. We'd be forced to fake a large charity drive once a year to bolster our income Fake website that's not if you'd like to learn how to join their ranks Be sure to stick around to the end of the show and with that out of the way tell us Cecil what person place thing concept Phenomenon or event will we be talking about today modest needs which is real go ahead. Sorry Cecil. Oh Jesus Christ today We're gonna be talking about multi-level marketing guru and founder of Holiday Magic, William Penn Patrick.

Tom, I'm just gonna say it wasn't Eli's idea to go back to back with Con artist episodes during Volgaery for charity, okay? I mean, I know he's the one making the joke, but do not encourage him, Noah. Do not encourage him. Wasn't a thank you situation either. And Tom, you stole this right

from the center of your vision board. Are you ready to share your dreams? Well, I checked in my down line, has some down time, so let's do this fucking thing. All right, so tell us, Tom, what was holiday magic? All right, holiday magic was the name of one of the most infamous, multi-level marketing scams ever perpetrated

on the American people. And well, I think we can all unequivocally agree that multi-level marketing is really just a bullshit way of describing a pyramid scheme, which is itself just a different bullshit shorthand way to say a business model that most closely resembles an aura Boris. The case, it really does.

The case of it really does. The case of holiday magic and its founder, William Penn Patrick, may just be one of the most American stories of all time. Now, like good American, but still quintessentially American. There's a good American, American American American. A business model that closely resembles an aura Boris. So you have to have your head up your own ass to think it's worthwhile. I don't understand what part of it. Yeah, it's a job creator.

It is but mostly rim jobs. Yeah. From yourself. Yeah. Self rim jobs. You gotta get a lot of ribs out to me. You really do. Really do. Worth it. So this shit is amazing. How did Magic was started in the 1960s? It is, see? By... Look at the back house. Oh, Jesus. There's like a thin Ron Jeremy licking his own house like a cat.

It's just... I love that movie. How did Magic was started in the 1960s by William Penn Patrick, and like most great businesses, it has an origin story that is complete and total bullshit. The legend of William Penn Patrick is this, after several failed business attempts

and door-to-door sales failures, William was at something of a low point. He had gone bankrupt, he was failing in the sales racket. He was in fact so desperate. He tried to teach junior high school. Wow. Well, I cut the subject dick behind a dumpster for math, pull it out his headphones and go, okay, it could be worse. I guess. I thought I'd be sure. Also, quick note to that guy. This is a weird podcast to listen to while you do that. What's the right podcast to listen to while you do that, Eli?

Yeah. Judging. By the way, that guy is Betsy Devast. All right. So as it turns out, teaching is hard and it doesn't pay well. And William had a keen nose for business, which is why one fateful day while walking down the street in San Rafael, California, William smelled a smell so intoxicating, so enticing that he immediately turned into a cartoon dog and was pulled, they compelled, they maybe floated through the

air by the wafting odors of fruity soapy lotions until he arrived at some fucking guy's garage which he just immediately walks into. Yeah. He walks in and he's like, is this the Asian massage garage? I heard a lot about this place. But this place. Gotta admit though, that is a pretty good business model.

Cause like, if you know, Crabtree and Evelyn were inside an unmarked van, I could have been abducted as so many times as a kid. Smells delicious. Yanky candles, cinnabon, a guy with bacon, fuckin' whatever, like all those words.

Yeah. All right, so we get into Scrooge. He discovers the guy who owned the garage. All Chis has happened to own umpteen boxes and boxes of unsold inventory of things like mint iced honey almond facial scrub and strawberry frappe cleanser, which is where the smell was coming from and was also the only time, hey, what's that smell coming from the garage?

Wasn't answered with the eventual use of crime scene tape. Okay, to be fair, this story also ends in a crime scene. They just didn't know that. Yeah, that's true. That's true. All right, so obviously William does what anyone who smells a nice smell would do. He looks at these boxes of unsold beauty products and he immediately coughs up $16,500,

which in today's money is $135,000. Wow. He buys all this random guys, random boxes of scented lotions because I guess when you're so broke, you have to resort to teaching junior high school. You also obviously still have the equivalent of a six figure investment capital budget on hand at all times. I don't know. Naturally, he needs now to start a company to sell all this stuff. He

bought from the guy who couldn't sell all of this stuff. So he starts a company with the not at all stupid name, holiday magic. Holiday magic. This whole story sounds like it was made up with Mad Libs. Okay guys, we need a made up story for our scams origin. Someone can be a job, just any job. Okay, middle school teacher. good, good, relatable.

Okay, now I need a place. A grouch, like a mechanic? No, like where you pull your car up. Oh, I love it, fairy.com boom. Saylable item that nobody needs, anyone? Lociens, toilet paper. Think we're gonna go with lotions. Okay, so a thing that makes people happy

holidays holidays yes and How is this company gonna make money? Magic Bingo All right, so by now William Penn Patrick has Boxes and boxes of stink lotion and a company with a bizardin has boxes and boxes of stink lotion and a company with a bizarre name.

So naturally, he needs only one other thing, right? He needs to release a vinyl record. Pressed, of course, by holiday magic records and called Happiness and Success through Principle, which really doesn't, doesn't mean anything at all, but which nonetheless would not slow him down or dissuade him from his message. And his messages are fucking delightful,

convoluted gibberish, set to really, really bad music. So here's a little nugget of wisdom for you guys. Go ahead and digest all this from him, okay? You have to read this in a Jordan Peterson voice or like a Kermit DeFraub voice, which is the same thing. So yeah.

All right, so here's the quote. He says, this leads me to the point of the principle, which I have discovered as a foundation of my security and happiness, which is success. My first inclination is to do as most men do, that is to confuse the issue by a lengthy analysis of the several specific issues available. A volume of 1 million pages could be written on the general subject. With a discussion of how many angels could stand on the head of a pin.

Well, I could really use a corkscrew, but all I have is this hand. It's kind of a good salesman. Do the other extreme of how did the earth get here? My life, you know what? It's just another thought. My life, it isn't herbal enough. You know what I mean? Like, I would need it to be-my life could be more herbal. Since I do not wish to enhance my ego and since my purpose is to sincerely share with everyone

those things I have discovered to be true, I will only give you the principle. Knowing that when you understand the principle, you will then apply it to the many available issues Before you That's pretty clear right guys clear right? Okay, okay to that help question Probably was the translation of that I know a thing boy. Do I know a thing? I know Which is a thing? You're ready here comes the thing? Yes Yes, you just spent 93 words saying but I don't want to be verbose. Exactly. So what were some of these principles that required such a lengthy introduction? Well, here's one of

them. Don't worry guys, I'm going to get us all t-shirts for it. So you don't have to. Here's the quote, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being wealthy. Wealth comes from giving something of value to other persons willing to pay for the value. Yeah, the estate tax is great. Absolutely. It should be higher. Shut up, Keith. Perfect tax. Each man in a free society is rewarded by his fellows in accordance with his contributions. Should you desire wealth, find a better way of giving what you have to offer to more people. The more people you can help, the more people will pay you for the help. Principle 2, lift your bootstrap with your legs, not your back.

Yeah, alright, so I know what you're thinking, right? Like, Tom, hey, that doesn't mean anything. Why'd you just read that? Like that's just a bullshit bootstrap myth, those spoken out loud to justify what some people have stuff and other people have less stuff. And to that I would say, yeah, okay, but that fucking guy went from being a broke junior high school teacher who bought a $100,000 worth of garage sale lotion

to being a millionaire in like a few short scam-filled years. So maybe we're not the ones who are all smart. Oh, God. Or, and there's certainly some irony here, we're principled, right? Or maybe, I don't know, three of us are principled and two of us aren't the smart ones here. I'd say, I'm a nation of those.

They all know which two and three Noah's talking about. I mean, unfortunately we do. All right, anyway, telling people on the stupid ones, right? No, it's technically two principles, two stupid and one lazy. Wait, can I be all three of those? Technically two principles to stupid and one lazy Wait, can I be all three of those They're not no And give us back our fucking bootstrap Tom

Thank you. I'm saving these you don't deserve them All right, anyway telling everyone how when you sell something, they pay you for it? Well, that's not the whole end. She'll haught out. That would be stupid. So here's another Pearl of Wisdom for you. He says, quote, today I'm earning more money. Each week, then 90% of the American people earn in a year. Soon my earnings per day will be likewise.

This money will continue as long as I desire it to, but money alone is a shallow thing and should not be a man's sole purpose. I own many leather bound books. I know. It's so funny. It is, I know. He's saying so basically like,

I have a lot of money and I'm getting more all the time and that's great for me, but I'm not arrogant about it at all. I promise, but I could also fuck your wife if I want to my dick as enormous. And it spells of rich mahogany. My penis does. If you're making that much money it's only shallow because you aren't stacking it correctly. Yeah right. I've seen duct tails. You shit. Scrooge, Mick Doug that shit. It's got Mahogany shaped like a corkscrew. That's cool. Yeah.

Dr. P. is a shaped like a corkscrew. Dr. P. is a sure. Yeah, especially when you cut it with the shears and you cut it. Oh. Also, what of his most quoted quotables in a long list of, well, quotables was this. He says, those who condemn wealth are those who have none

and see no chance of getting it. Now, I ran this quote by a couple of families on the west side of Chicago and also Bernie Sanders. They all disagreed. But to be fair, I also workshopped this one in Breckenridge and the Hamptons and strangely got wildly different responses. It's cool, right?

Yeah. People who want to tax the wealthier money insoles, that's how this works. But you know, okay, but that actually, that statement is largely true because almost everyone has no wealth or chance of getting it. But damn, doesn't it take a lot of, caucacity to the scene?

That's the, that's the destiny. Is that white or a decedacity? Yeah, I believe so, yeah. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy.

I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy.

I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. I'm not a good guy. which white privilege bullshit is it to assume that that represents a flaw in the poor people? I so obviously William loved wealth and I mean who can blame him right I mean when you have wealth it's hard not to love that but William wasn't content just extolling the virtues of him having stuff and I don't know he wasn't simple like that no William also made sure that anyone

listening to his sweet sweet record knew that if you were going to love wealth, you also had to hate poor people because I guess it's no fun having more than other people if you can't hate on the ones that are struggling. Holiday magic. Wee! Skycake. Yeah, here's another quote.

Next time you feel the need to carve something mean into the forehead of a poor person. So I'm listening. Quote, there are many parasites who give nothing of value to an economy or society and yet demand to be fed. Yeah, said the guy who sells garage lotion, fuck you. You. You guys, you guys think like a young Paul Ryan

laid it on his back in his room on his bed, listening to this record the way we all did with music? Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! I do! Just mixing up ground-adderall and fucking homeless tears on the album cover. Making Libertarian crap. Make a libertarian crap. Yeah. All right, so libertarian crap isn't the only thing that William Pempatrick had stumbled

onto. It wasn't new. What he was doing was just repackaging some messages from guys like Dale Carnegie and putting a sort of mean-spirited proto-neo-conservative quasi-religious spin on all this. But for employees of holiday magic, William then created the Leadership Dynamics Institute, which employees of holiday magic were required to attend. And since employees were required to go to this in order to move up the chain at holiday magic, naturally he took his idea of the Leadership Dynamics Institute and he created another company just

called Leadership Dynamics, which then became its own Multilevel marketing company Seated with the employees of holiday magic. It's was itself on MLM It just wow, okay way ahead of you Tom. I just bought leadership dynamics dynamics No, but this makes sense right because as long as the subsidiary MLM spawns at least three subsidiaries and each of them spawns at least three subsidiaries, then we can pay off Stormy Daniels, and nobody will know what was us. I'm sorry, I had to start it.

At least some of you really end it. As a leadership dynamics was this fucking weekend thing that the employees of holiday magic attended to get ahead and so far, all this just sounds like a mean guy with a lot of lotion-bilking people. But this is where the story will begin to get very fucking weird. Alright well speaking of lotion and being weird I need a break. I'll be back in a bit for a little thing we like to call apropos of nothing. Eli that's not what bil King means. Huh? He's gonna Bill kiss Frosty. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Well sure thing kid here at Holiday Magic we thrive on young people can I throw some quotes from our new business dynamics record at you?

I love that record please do. Well there are many men in the United States for whom their ambition is not met by their surroundings these men should be brought to a place where their surroundings are met only by their ambition. Well that's so true. Alright now but this one product is not an item to be sold, but a sale to be made into a product. I want to write that one down.

When man's strive to beans, hammock, umbrella, chair, far-kitten, sorry, I don't feel well. I love it, that's good. Wait, what? Go. Umbrella, chair, far-kitten, believe me, I get it. I love it. That's good. Wait what go umbrella chair far kitten. Believe me. I get it I got my chest is tight toast toast needle needle Dolly need that gosh that's good did it call in a little

Toast this is so good Got it. Hey podcast listener, do you love when we say mean things? Of course you do, that's why you're listening. Well, as you may already know, we're currently right smack in the middle of our yearly roast to the purpose, vulgarity for charity. So if you'd like to give the same treatment that we've given to a surprising number of radiation victims to someone else,

head over to modestnees.org, donate at least $50, and send the receipt along with who you'd like us to roast to vulgarity for charity, that's the word, not the number, at gmail.com. Want Tom to compose an ode to how much he hates your ex-girlfriend? Vulgarity for charity at gmail.com. Want Cecil to roast your rain gutters? Volgarity for charity at gmail.com.

And this year, a private donor is matching our first $100,000 of donations. So give till it hurts. Whoever you tell us to hurt. Volgarity for charity. Once a year, we do it for good. And we're back. When we left off, someone was getting rich off others' gullibility because this is America and our national anthem should be the sound of losing it video slots.

What happened next time? What happened next time? What happened? Yeah, you're not even a little wrong. Alright, so here's the thing. People pay a thousand dollars to attend leadership dynamics, which is a lot of money now, but was like... more money than. Oh, move over Cecil, we have a new, detailed King of Town.

Yeah, did the, just the math works. Anyway, this thing turned out to be the action park of corporate weekend leadership retreats. They held these things in some scuzzy hotel in the Bay area in the 60s. And I've been to a fair number of corporate retreats. It can be kind of a bummer to stay someplace subpar for a working weekend, but I can honestly say that every day of my working life has been better than this weekend,

I'm going to describe shit and vomit at the same time at some point. I'm confused. Well, no, I have not, but I have been a janitor, I've been a fast food worker, and I've even been a podcast. Oh, that's shitty, Jen. Yeah, that's the same thing. Tom, to be honest, I was so certain that sentence was gonna end with, and I've been to a fair number

of scoussey hotels in the Bay Area. I almost shredded that NBA. I'm glad I read it all the way through though. Thank you for not doing that actually, either. So what made this so bad? What were their bees at the ropes course? Maybe somebody not paying attention during the truss fall? Perhaps that one fucking guy who man cries about his feelings

and treats a bullshit corporate retreat like a free fucking session of group therapy. That guy right here. Somehow this was all much worse. Attendees to leadership dynamics were fucking crucified. Wait, what? Like yes, they were actually literally crucified. They were strung up on crosses.

What? They were crucified at work in a hotel. Yeah. And then they were left hanging there for hours at a time. And then some of them were forced into coffins, which were shot overnight, real actual coffins. More on the coffins, put a pin in that, you can take one from one of the crucified guys. Still better than some jobs, you could be the server that has to keep bringing Eli

progressively warmer glasses of tomato juice. Sure, please, we've been closed for three hours. This is ridiculous. Who would? To grease, warmer. Oh my god, I hate you so much. Maybe through mom. You know, I'm gonna come in your tomato juice

for those two of you. You're right. Never does it. Then they had it, and I fucking, I love this. They had something that they called group bullying. Like this, if you've seen handmaid's tale, which is a spectacularly slow moving and ultimately boring,

but wildly popular TV show about our near certain hellish dystopian future present right now. Fair, fair. Sorry. There's actually a scene in that show that looks very literally like this leadership retreat. At this retreat, somebody in the group would be forced to admit to something embarrassing

and then the whole group would humiliate and yell at that person. Like, you know, to make them better leaders, somehow. I don't want to brag, but I could have taken down this entire business auto by going first. That's a saying. Yeah, that's a terrible idea for a leadership conference. You save verbal abuse for where it belongs, charity drives. Right, right, people. Right, so here's an example of the group bullying that took place.

Some guy at one of these retreats was in holiday magic, as was this guy's mom. So this guy's mom naturally told the leaders of the retreat that her son had witnessed her having sex with a woman when her son was a young child and that her son was traumatized by the event. Also, mom told the organizers that this guy was molested by his dad as a child. So naturally, the leadership dynamics people weaponized this information and made this poor fucker publicly admit all of this while they shamed and bullied him in front of everyone.

Now we just do that in Congress until they resign. We just do that. Yeah. Or we stop watching Annie Hall in protest, even though it's real. No. No. Now, other people were forced to strip naked

in front of everyone while participants mocked their bodies. One account has a man being forced to give a dildo head in front of the while participants mocked their bodies, one account has a man being forced to give a dildo head in front of the female participants. And amazingly, William didn't deny any of this. When he was sued, saying of the four sex addicts with the fucking fake dogs, he said, quote, well, to put it bluntly, there are a lot of men who come to class that have forgotten how to use theirs.

Oh, what? But that's not it though, right? Like the right way to use it isn't rip it off and fillate it in front of your female partner. Who's that? Who's that? That's not it. That's not power. Look out gay, I'm not.

Look at this. Look, I'm not gay. Look out gay, I'm not. You're doing it. Seriously, everything at this, look, I'm not gay, look out gay, I'm not. You're doing it. Seriously, everything at this event sounds like Mike Pence joining a frat. Like I already need to scrub. Absolutely. Why did you tell the mother?

Oh my gosh, this is Mike Pence's origin story. Right. So when he was asked about reports of students being beaten during these conferences, Williams admitted to it being fairly common to hit the students, but then he rationalized this shit by saying, and I quote, I slap my children from time to time. That serves a useful function.

Jesus. Look at that. William Penn Patrick can't listen to our podcast. Yeah. Like honestly, at this point, there's nothing better here to do than to quote from the actual depositions. I found these from an New York Times article from 1973.

These are the best things I've ever read in the history of ever. When he was questioned under oath about this, Mr. Patrick said, no one was nailed to a cross. They were tied, he said. He said, Jesus died for our synergy. Yes. He said, He said, He said, Jesus died for our synergy. Yes. Ah!

Ah! Ah! Alright, actually Noah Eli, you guys mind taking these? I feel like you've had this conversation almost word for words. So you guys might have a little... That's fair. Yeah, you want to take the question? Yeah, I'll give you an answer.

Yeah, okay. How was the individual tied to the cross? Well, how would you normally tie somebody to a cross? What? Like enthusiastically? I don't get the cross? Well, how would you normally tie somebody to a cross? What? Like, enthusiastically? I don't get the question. What's that I heard? It Mr. Patrick was asked if anyone's suffering from claustrophobia was ever forced into one of the coffins and he replied, well, let me say this, if they did,

they got over it. Just like Jesus got over his, a, a, a, cross-teraphobia. Yeah, cross-teraphobia has amazing. Thank you. Just, you want to take another, another quote from the deposition, guys? Oh, sure, sure. Okay.

Is the coffin a pine box or was it no, we had a modern coffin, a modern coffin? Yes. With a pillow inside and pad. Yes, it's very nice. You would like it I love all threading that sounds even with Eli saying it All right follow up question if you put a glass of red wine on the pad and jump next So Mr. Patrick was asked at another point about people being injured in the classes and he replied quote, I don't think those things are damaging a little painful but a man learns from his pain.

No, we don't. Getting a circumcision doesn't make you stop playing with it. You just don't want to. I like it. You just don't get me to stop playing with it during the circumstances. So I have no idea how William would define a little painful, but one student from leadership dynamics was quoted as saying, I was black and blue from head to toe. My cheekbone was sticking out over an eighth of an inch. Dizzy spelled continuous pain in the chest and in the stomach and ribs.

And my wrists were infected and I had continuous nightmares I had slight whip marks on the back Not sure if he forgot his fucking safe word before heading into Geneva Bay conference room two But almost certainly his fault, but how does this help you sell lotion? Maybe the lotion is for whipscars? Yeah, that's how it's actually. Or maybe like, please buy this lotion or the master will whip me again.

Yeah, yeah. The same for it is, I want to buy more lotion. Yeah. I mean, to keep students from leaving, they were paired up and then encouraged to spy on one another. If either one of the pair didn't do as they were told or didn't report suspicious activity to leadership,

they would both be thrown out. Just literally. And made his tail. Yeah, it is. It is the same thing. Yeah, and if you didn't make it through leadership dynamics, your career at holiday magic was going nowhere. But like all good things, even this had to come to an end.

Around 1974, holiday magic, the original fruity-centred garage-loob distribution rack. And first but not least. It came to the attention of the Federal Trade Commission, and the complaint alleged that pyramid schemes are bullshit, and this was one, basically. So can someone please fucking do something about this? Right to which the FTC said like guys were we're six years pre-reg and you bet your ass we can And the leadership dynamics was being sued on all sides by people who didn't like being crucified and molested and so not Catholics then and molested and so not catholic said okay

and holiday magic was under federal investigation for being total bullshit william pan magic was very very rich at this point was so rich in fact that one of his hobbies was to fly airplanes that he should not have been able to buy and was not licensed to fly somehow what's he manages to get his hands? I love this so much.

He manages to buy a P51D Mustang. This is a long-range fighter plane and bomber. It was used in combat as late as the Korean War. This is not something you buy. It's not at all clear how he was able to buy this. You can buy military chess. Second amendment. That's why. Second amendment. A well-organized Air Force militia. So the age of only 43 in 1973, embroiled in scandal, William Stald and crashed his P-51D Mustang killing both himself and his

friend Christian George Haggard who was the director of holiday magic of Helsinki, Finland. Okay, new rule. Tom isn't allowed to do any more of his heroes. These SSK weirds mean. Hey, Tom, your garage door has a... I'm going to describe it as a stealth bomber shaped hole in it. Yeah. It smells weirdly allotian in there too. Let's go into our lotion. I'll thank you to say out of my personal affairs. I'll rage us.

I'll rage us all of you. So a year after Williams got the 1974 Congress held hearings about pyramid schemes, which everyone had to take a moment and define basically as a business where the bottom feeds the top, the customers, the employee, and there's effectively no bonafide consumers, buying a substantial amount of any of the products. This we all collectively decided was at least on paper bad. So the United States of Representatives cited Holiday Magic as an example of consumer fraud. Pyramid schemes are now very much illegal and holiday magic is cited now in law schools all over the country as one of the primary examples of the most egregious and fraudulent pyramid schemes in America.

Of course, now we call pyramid schemes multi-level marketing or the newer shinier version network marketing. Tom Tetrahedral Integration, please. That's not a non-tetra. And then maybe sometimes we appoint as education secretary, holy, unqualified women whose family fortune was and is made in exactly this way. And then we have a president. Presonary soldiers is the other way that family.

That's what we have. And then we definitely have a president is a guy who owned the Trump network, which is a MLM that sold vitamins and other bullshit. But I guess we solved the problem. Thank you, Senator. Problem solved, guys. It's over.

Nice. And if you had to summarize what you learned in one sentence, what would it be? I think it is not sure really. I think it's if one pyramid is good, two pyramids are more good. Yeah, one diamond. And are you ready for the quiz? I am. Let's do this thing. All right, Tom. What's the worst thing to get at the Asian massage garage? A, turtle waxing. Turtle waxing. B, a rim job.

C, engine head. D, transmission. Well, okay, the turtle waxing, that's, I don't know why you would put that in the list of the worst things. I mean, that's okay. You should go sealant. Yeah. Obviously, nobody wants a failed transmission, so that's what we're going to go.

No, everybody wants. Yeah, there are times when you wanted to fail the official transmission at the Asian Susque. Happy rear-ending. Yeah, yeah. Well, it will go goes the end of it. Yeah, when you give it the D, that's what happens. So there you go. It's all right.

I got one for you, Tom. What is an actual genuine reason that Noah was once kicked out of a corporate team building retreat? It's not all the above before you even let's step on the other. I'll give you a hint. It's not A, insisting that lighting the cross-choit is a team building exercise one guy can't do it B

Jumping into group bullying without being believable See saying very convincingly. Oh God not yet in the middle of the cross-child Or D crucifying people Oh God, not yet in the middle of the threshold. Oh, yeah. Or D, crucifying people. Now I just want it to be D. Like I just feel like it's, I just want it to be. Can I want it bad enough that that's true?

Let me check with Andrew. No, you can have one. That's the one you're not allowed to want. All right. All right, Tom, I got one more for you. Wait, I need to know which one it was. It was see, it was see. I was so happy.

I scared this shit out of this, like 42-year-old overweight woman. It was so hilarious. All right, last one for you, Tom. Which of the following is the best slogan for holidaymagic.com? Is it A, it puts the lotion in the basket and it proceeds to check out? That is the only option it's A. That's really it. You don't need any more. Okay, it is A with the caveat that if you enter glory at checkout All right, well Cecil you fooled Tom first so you are this

Winner all right. He's put the lotion in the basket. It's you next buddy game on all right Well for Tom heath Noah and Cecil I'm Eli Bosnick. Thank you for hanging out with us today. We'll be back next week and by then, Heath will be an expert on something else. Between now and then, you can apply for a job at Tom's company, Magical Holidays, with Cecil and Noah at celebratory enchantments, or you can date Heath. And if you'd like to help me this show going, you can make a perfect celebration at hatredon.com slash citation pond, or leave us a five-star review Anywhere you can and if you'd like to get in touch with us, check out past episodes connect with us on social media or check the show notes Be sure to check out citation pod.com and remember if it takes money to make money, it won't

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