Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - A Perfect Day in Manhattan with Travel Expert Mark Ellwood

Episode Date: April 26, 2019

British-born Mark Ellwood is a fellow expat and travel podcaster who I’ve been listening to for a few years, first on Conde Nast Traveler’s Travelogue and now on Travel Genius. Whenever I hear him, I think, “This guy sounds like so much fun.” I knew he’d be the perfect guest to talk about the local experiences we should have in New York City. Find links to what we talked about on postcardacademy.co   Mark is a contributing editor to Conde Nast Traveler, and also writes for Bloomberg Luxury, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times. and other publications. If you’re in the States and watch the TODAY show, you may have seen Mark, as he is their go-to travel expert. He’s been on many other TV shows — too many for me to name here.   Mark and I are pretty much living opposite lives. He’s an Englishman turned New Yorker living a very glam life in Manhattan. I’m an American who left New York and am now slumming it on the coast of England. But we’re both enjoying life in our adopted homes, and of course we like to talk travel, which we do on this episode.    We also talk about expat life, and Mark shares his favorite New York City recommendations, including some cocktail bars that sound amazing, and other hidden gems I think you’ll enjoy.    I’m your host, Sarah Mikutel. Did you know I host another show called Podcasting Step by Step? Check it out if you’ve been wanting to start a podcast. Every week, I break down ‘how to podcast’ with a little loving motivation to give you the skills and confidence you need to finally launch that show of your dreams.   Ready to travel? Sign up for my newsletter and get your free guide to cheap airfare.    Thank you so much for listening to the Postcard Academy travel podcast. I know you’re busy and have many listening options, so it means a lot to me that you’re here. You are the best.   This podcast is brought to you by Audible. Not a member yet? Postcard Academy listeners can get a FREE audiobook and a 30-day free trial if you sign up via audibletrial.com/postcard   This podcast is also brought to you by World Nomads. Need simple and flexible travel insurance? Get a cost estimate from World Nomads using their handy calculator at postcardacademy.co/insuranceDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to the Postcard Academy. I'm your host, Sarah Micatel. And today's guest is a fellow expat and also a travel podcaster, Mark Elwood, and I have been listening to him for a few years now, first on Condi Nest Travelers Travelog podcast, and now on Travel Genius. And whenever I hear Mark, I think this guy sounds like so much fun. I love his energy and his upbeat spirit. and hearing his travel stories, and I knew he would be the perfect person to talk to you about local experiences we should have in New York City. Mark is a contributing editor to Condé Nass Traveler, and he also writes for Bloomberg Luxury, the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, and other publications. If you live in the States, you may have

seen Mark on the Today Show. He is a regular guest as their go-to-to-tube. travel expert, and he's been on many other TV shows too many for me to name here. Mark and I are pretty much living opposite lives. He is an Englishman turned New Yorker, living a very glam life in Manhattan. Well, I am an American who left New York, and I'm now slumming it on the coast of England, but we are both enjoying life in our adopted homes, and of course we like to talk about travel. On this episode, we will also talk about expat life and Mark shares his favorite New York City recommendations, including some are really great sounding cocktail bars and also some other hidden gems that I think you are really going to like. Now into my conversation with Mark.

Welcome, Mark. Thank you so much for joining me today. Happy to be here. I can't wait. I can't wait to dive in. Tell me what you want to know. Okay, so you are a Brit living in New York City. Where did you grow up? I grew up in London, and to most British people, I have quite a London accent, but it's tinged now after 20 years in America with an awful lot of transatlantic drawls. So I sound a bit like Madonna to most British people. So hopefully to you, I sound reasonably British, but it is Ebbingway, but there's little London twangs in there. So that's my, that's my background. So how did you end up in the States? Do you know, I worked, my first job, and travel was as a tour director.

When I was an undergraduate at Cambridge, they recruited people to take Americans and art tours around Europe. And I speak a couple of languages. So I thought, hey, that's a great summer job. Well paid, five-star hotels. Sign me on. And what it accidentally did was rather than sort of piqued my curiosity about Europe, I loved all the Americans I worked with.

I've always been a very, very chipper person. And I wake up very chipper. I'm a morning person. I am not prone to depression. I am a very, very, you know, very enthusiastic human being. And I learned when I first encountered all these Americans on these tours that there was this magical country where that was okay. I had spent my childhood having people make comments.

I remember more than my favorite on a meeting in London, someone said to me, who put cocaine on your corn flakes then? And I thought, you know, maybe you should be glad that I'm so perky. So I met these lovely Americans on these trips, and it peaked my keyer off to, and I applied to three deals to do masters in America, and I got one of the scholarships.

So I moved to Chicago for a year and a half, and kind of never looked back. I've spent almost my entire adult life in America, and I intend to stay here. This is very much my home. I love visiting Britain, but I'm as American as you can be with the accents I have. That is so nice to hear. Well, America is very lucky to have you.

Flannery will get you everywhere. So how are you allowed to live and work in the U.S. then? Did you become a citizen? What was that process like? Do you know, it's nerve-wracking because my citizenship is in right now. I've had a green card for a long time. So I've been resident for knocking on 20 years. But I'm very keen to, you know, if I get on my soapbox, I think voting is very important. and whoever you vote for, however you vote, I think you should vote. And because of the way international law works, Britain rescinded my right to vote a few years ago. So at the moment, I have no ability to vote anywhere. So if I want to vote, I have to take an American passport.

So I will do that so I can participate in the democratic process somewhere. Why did they rescind your right to vote? Is it just because you haven't been in the UK for so long? It's because I've been a non-resident passport holder for so long. There are all these, I'm sure you discover this, Sarah, when you live overseas, and I'm sure some of the expat listeners will understand this. You learn these strange nooks and crannies of international law with your day-to-day life that you never realized. So they're not important to most people because it's a very small subset of us who are expats long term.

And I have to say ex-pat. I hear that word, and expats is such a highly charged word. my friend Serbo I used to work with at the kind of asked traveler who's now the New York Times, 52 places traveler, always says expats is a very privileged word because immigrant versus expat is such a, it's such a different definition.

But I think of myself as an expat. Well, I, and I, oh, sorry, I didn't need to interrupt. No, no, tell me. What did you think? What do you think about that? I see, I think it's a very privileged stance to think the word expat is privileged because I think

if you're an expat, chances are, you know, you're living a more privileged life than many people in the world. And to equate my experience to somebody who is, you know, coming across any sort of border because of war or because of economic struggle, like, their struggle is much harder than mine. And to put us all in the same basket, I think does a disservice to them. I agree with you. What Sub would say, and there is an episode of travelogue where we talk about this, episode of living overseas, which is one of my favorite episodes we ever did, because a bunch of us had lived overseas. Seb's point, and I think it's well made, is that there are enormous numbers of immigrant laborers living long term in the Middle East, usually from South Asia. And we don't think of them as expats, but they have moved for positive economic reasons. They are legally living there.

They have built lives there. But they are perceived very differently. And it really set me thinking when I think about expats. I realize that I'm picturing someone very like me, and I'm a white middle class man. And I recognize that there's something lazy in that picture. Did you know what I mean? Yeah.

I can see the point. but yeah I mean why why can't those other people be considered expats I guess maybe we should could expand the word I just I don't think of ex-pat as a negative thing and also you know I'm not here in England for economic reasons I probably could do better in the US but I'm here just because I you know I like living here it's not because I'm here for any sort of economic pursuit I will I will tag so when we publish this I'll tag Seb and he will wake. He'll make this point better than I can. So, Stead, please tweet at it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm absolutely, and I hope it's obvious, like not saying anyone is better than the other. I just think, completely. It's just the lexicon we use, which is really interesting. And it's a lexicon that doesn't come up too much because, again, the point that we were making, there aren't that many of us who live overseas long term. Yeah. And it's interesting to kind of be in that mindset and meet other people and see how we look at it. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you end up in New York? Were you in

San Francisco for a little bit? No, I worked on guidebooks to San Francisco. So I went to, I went to grad school in Chicago, went back to London for a short burst, and then clawed my way back to America as quickly as I could. And I started working on guidebooks. I started working for the rough guides when that was a big deal. And I wrote guidebooks to Chicago, San Francisco, Florida, New York, California. I mean, I was all over the place, but I would go to cities for sort of three months at a time and, you know, live in different hotels and literally walk the streets. And it was very good training for journalism because you really are, you're sort of gumshoeing your way around a city. And even today, I can tell you how to get around San Francisco or Miami without even

looking at a map. And they were great times. I got to know those two cities in particular really, really, really well. I have a much more ambivalent relationship with San Francisco than I do with Miami, which I adore. San Francisco, I was assigned because I remember Martin Donford, who found the rough guides, he said to me, oh, everyone loves San Francisco, so they write really badly about it. You know, really like it, so you'll look for interesting things to say, and he wasn't wrong. So I think, I think Sanford, I find, I find it frustrating that the The things for which San Francisco is famous are not, to me, the things which make it interesting. Okay. So if we want to read an interesting guide in San Francisco, you've done the rough guides.

The old rough guides, yes. You can probably find them. You probably find them on eBay, old editions of both. So I'm sure someone else is now writing it. But, you know, I do love, I will say, Hayes Valley in San Francisco. I've always loved, and I've loved it for 20 years. And I love the kind of funkiness of that. So it's not a brick bat to the whole city. But I certainly was an interesting experience. So how did you fall into this marvelous career? I think you're absolutely the envy of anyone listening to this show right now. How did this happen?

I feel very lucky. You know, I've always been, I always dreamed of having a job that felt like being a student where you could learn the whole time. And I realized quite quickly that journalism was that weird scam where people smarter than you for free would give you 30 minutes of their time and educate you on something you know nothing about. So I found that very appealing. I fell into travel because, as I say, I started as a tour guide and I traveled a lot as a child. My dad is an artist. So we traveled a lot and I learned Italian that way because we spent a lot of time in Italy. And I think that,

if I were talking to anyone about a way into working in the travel business, if I look at my way in, it was speaking a weird language. I speak, my French is fluent, my Italian's pretty good. Lots of people speak French, but Italian, because it doesn't really have a function unless you're going to Italy, people don't bother to learn, and I learned as a kid on the beach. So when you have a weird language, it limits you, but it also makes you useful. And that's what got me my tour directing job because I worked in Italy. And, you know, Italy is a very important travel destination. So it's been helpful that I can communicate there very easily.

So I always think that it's one weird language. Whatever weird language that is, something that isn't sort of Spanish or French, you can probably parlay into some kind of. What do you speak? What languages did you learn? I speak Italian, so we could actually finish this interview in Italian if you would like. Probably. I mean, how inseparable would we be for the listeners?

I know. Excuse me for a second. When you were speaking, I was thinking, should I just respond in Italian? But we can save that for another time. How did you learn yours? I did not study another language in school. I mean, Spanish a little bit in high school, but nothing in college. And as soon as I graduated, I regretted it.

And I thought, well, I want to learn a language now. What would be something easy to learn? And Italian sounded like the easiest thing. And I have Italian heritage. And I like traveling in Italy. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to learn Italian. And that just sent me on like a long path.

And I ended up becoming an Italian citizen because of my Sicilian ancestry. And that's how I'm able to live and work in the European Union because I now have an Italian passport. How wonderful. I will say what I would encourage anyone who doesn't speak Italian as we see. here pontificating Italian. It is, not only is it,

it is the Indo-European language, I believe, with the smallest vocabulary, and it is the easiest to learn. Italians are wonderfully understanding of the efforts you make, and I don't think that's true

in every country. I know when I was a tour director and I would teach people a few words of Italian, I was always thrilled by how encouraging they would be and how surprised they were that anyone would bother.

Definitely true. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? One of those languages that when you say, is that when you start it, you get to practice because you don't feel bad. They're like, sure, you mean, baby, baby, baby. So, yes, anyone, should we do a vote for like, let's, everyone should learn a bit of a tab.

I vote for that, yes. And I also like what you say about just trying something different when you're starting out in your career. Like, you used Italian. And I've definitely, from my conversations on this podcast, have heard from people who have decided to, you know, move to Romania or move. to Slovenia and they're kind of a big fish in a smaller pond because they're coming with these different skills like English language skills that they can use at a newspaper or anything. And it's just a really good way to start doing interesting work quite early in your career,

I think. And I, you know, in my journalism career, one of the things that started out with journalism, I realized as a Brit in New York, I could write for the British media about America's craziness and especially New York's craziness because there is an insatiable thirst for it. And that was very helpful. And it's the same thing. You know, if you're an American living in Budapest, find the Budapest stories and say, I can actually interview these people. I know what's going on. And there will be outlets for those. And people will want to know a really well-reported linguistically inaccessible story like that. And it's an open sesame.

So you travel all the time, but your home is in New York. So how long have you been there? And which neighborhood are you in now? So I've been in New York for 21 years. I moved here, almost 21. I just celebrated my 20th anniversary with a big party in November. I've always lived in Lolita. So anyone who's not familiar with New York, New York is constantly creating new neighborhoods, largely

for marketing purposes. So they will grab a little corner of a big neighborhood and give it a new nickname. That's how Tribeca came about. That's how all sorts of bits have come about. And in the late 90s, the hot neighborhood was the northern bits of Little Italy, which had been deemed the new boutique area. And they used it acronymically. They called it Nolita. And I remember when I moved into Nolita, I think, well, I don't know if I'm going to be here for more than a year.

I want to live in the hottest neighborhood if I'm going to live. if I'm going to live in New York. And then, you know, I've done it. And I would tell taxi drivers, I would give them directions. And I'm so sorry. And I'm not supposed to say this, but it's that neighborhood they call no leader. And you would sort of embarrassedly mention, you know, no leader. But, I mean, it used to be East Soho.

I mean, you know, little, little. Now it's just no later. And it has changed a lot in the last 20 years. It's very much. It's much, much busier. It is home. And I will fight anyone who says different. but it is home to the best bookstore in New York, McNally Jackson, on Prince and Mulberry.

And it is worth going to know Lita just to walk into McNally Jackson, take a deep breath, and realize how awesome bookstores are. The owner is the scion of a book-selling family in Canada, Sionette, so forgiving, a beautiful, very smart red-headed lady who cares deeply about running. a great shop. And she has slowly expanded to stationary and furniture and paintings and prints and other stores. She's just a caring, thoughtful shopkeeper. If you've not been, if next time anyone who's coming to New York, please mark it. It's on Prince Street between Mulberry and Lafayette. And it is truly, I think it is an absolute treasure.

Yes. Support your local bookstores, everybody. Exactly. Do I like I need to say that out loud? You're going to be ashamed, but I have to say it. I'm saying it. So New York has been featured in so many films. A lot of people feel like they know it, even if they've never been there.

What's something that you would tell people about New York that would surprise them? I would say that you should always come to New York in October and November because it's freakishly warm but magical. I think people assume that the seat, the wheel, winter season in New York starts, you know, early November because you see all these Christmas movies and everyone's wading through the snow. My birthday is an early February, and that is always the nadir of the weather. The bad weather starts just after Christmas and it really hits rock bottom just around February 5th, always just around February 5th and everything's shut down. But I would always tell people, October, November even, are beautiful times to be in New York.

And there is almost like a bonus summer that is not as sticky as July. And I think that's a magical thing about New York. I think people don't realize the subways here are irrational, illogical and made no sense. It is only when you have a visitor who gets lost and confused that you realize you've learned. New York subways are a bit like English, the grammar of the English language. They are completely illogical and hard to follow. but you learn all the rules and you're fine. So I would always say, if you're a visitor,

everything is so close. You do always walk, and I try and walk 90% of the time. And it's such a pleasure. New York is so compact. Living in Manhattan, as I do, and most of my friends do still do. It really is like being college as a grown-up, which is probably one of the, you know,

one of the reasons I still love it is that, you know, I get to hold back middle age a little bit longer. Yeah. Well, yeah, about the subways. I lived in New York for a number of years. And I think it took me like a good month before I would get on the subway. I was so intimidated by it. I just couldn't figure it out. But then once you do, then it's, then it's easy. What was, you see, what was it? You see, I still make mistakes, especially when it's the weekend and the F train is running on the E line as a six. And you just think, I'm going to get on this train and I'm just going to see what happens. I mean, it really does feel the lucky dip of travel. So I always think that people, people, I don't think that is for, and also, you know, the New York City subway system was not planned as a system. Unlike most global metropolises, it was planned as a series competing lines. So the connections between them are very irrational and erratic. And so it doesn't actually serve as a very good way of getting around the city in the way that, say, the Paris Metro, the London Underground would do. Oh, God, I love the tube. I sing its praises. It's so much better than the subway.

And yeah, now that I think about it, the last time I was in New York, there was like a wall of 80 flyers of changes that were happening over the weekend. What do you love about this? What do you love about the tube? Why do you love the tube as a sort of non-native bread? Yes, we should get into this, Mark, because, yeah, you mentioned how you feel like more at home in the same. States and I feel more at home over here. But the tube I like because it's very clean. It's well lit. Everyone's just minding their own business and doing their own thing. It's fast. Like I for me personally, I don't care if it runs all night long. And there are now late night lines sometimes. But it's just it's so much more frequent and consistent. And I trust that it's going to show up. I think the thing I always say, the things I miss about Britain are the Tube, M&S Food Hall, the BBC and British newspapers. So if I could bring all of those to New York and just bolt them on to New York, I probably would never come back.

Well, and half those things you can just get online. You can, but you see, there's nothing beats walking into a supermarket on Saturday morning in London and buying an armful of newspapers and walking into read. and just luxuriating in the inky print. I am a proud Luddite and I've spent many lovely Saturdays with a bottle of wine, sharing a bottle of wine, not just for me, sitting there just really the newspaper and I miss that. I do pay for all the British newspapers here, but it's not the same. Actually, that's something that I haven't done since my New York days. I used to get like a copy of the New York Times and go to a muffin shop called Blue Sky Bakery in Brooklyn. I think it's still there in Park Slope and read the newspaper. And now I'm, you know, because I travel so much,

not nearly as much as you, but I have gone electronica and just about everything. And I've been thinking lately, I really want to get back to paper because I think it would be healthy for my mind. I also think, and I've said this, I've given this as a tip on travel genius. I, one, um, One guide that I worked with once said to me, you know, one of the best non-aggressive alibis you can have in a difficult situation. If you're in a foreign country and you want to look like you belong for any reason, carry a local newspaper because you scam not only as someone who speaks the language, but as someone who is somehow embedded in the culture because you've got the paper.

And it is armor against awkwardness and tricky situations. And it also will make you feel like you belong in places where you're very comfortable, but it's an extra embedding. So a newspaper is a wonderful, it's a wonderful, simple safety trick. I like that. I like that. When you're in New York and you've got like a relaxing day off, how do you spend? What's a perfect day in New York look like for you? That's a great question.

The perfect day in New York for me would always be walking around because that is, and I still marvel, I think, you know, I've been in New York for 20 plus years and I still love every dirty, noisy, grumpy corner of it. I still marvel at New York and I love it. I would probably spend the morning in NoLita. I would go for breakfast at Cafitouet or Cafe Havana, which are two restaurants which have been in No Lita long.

than I have. Caffaubana was made famous because it's in Lenny Kravitz's again video. So if anyone wants to dial that up, they'll really see what Kavabana looks like. It's Cuban. Caffir Chatan is North African. It's very well known. Any Australian who's interested in New York will have gone to Kaffiritan because it serves Australian-style long blacks that pass muster.

I would have breakfast at one of those. I would wander around Lolita. I would go to McNally Jackson because I absolutely love it. I would look at some of the shoe shops and the interior stores on Elizabeth Street, which is by far the prettiest street in Lolita. I live on Mulberry, so I can say that. I live on the ugly street. Elizabeth is gorgeous, and it is, it looks like one of those woozy Instagram backgrounds that people use for ad hoc fashion shoots. It's sort of trees and beautiful brick walls and kind of lovely, lovely sort of old building.

but like funky things. So, you know, go there on Instagram, go to town. I would, I often go, I find the broken kilometer in Soho, very contemplative. It's a Walter de Maria installation, which dates back to the 1970s. I never say what it is because the whole point is you are supposed to walk in and experience what it's like. but it's a free installation on Broadway, just south of Broom. And you know, you just wander in. And I often go in there.

It was one of the first things I ever did in New York, and I find it, I'm sort of drawn back. So I would love to do that as a little bit of culture. I would then probably head up on a Saturday. I would probably head up to the lower Fifth Avenue, which is where I like going shopping because they have almost all the shops they have in Midtown. but none of the tourists. So it's like this magic. It's sort of the magic version

of Fifth Avenue uptown, but somehow it's empty. So I'd go there and I'd go to the farmer's market at Union Square and buy whatever was in season, which sounds so twee, but it really is true.

I really would go and do that. I mean, it sounds like one of those ghastly, perfect weekend things. But I really do go to the Union Square Green Market when I'm in town because it's a, it's such a lovely, reminder that, you know, New Jersey and the Hamptons are some of the best farms in America.

And, you know, you see crazy lettuce that you're like, what do I do with this? Or I bought Shoshito peppers for the first time because someone just showed me how to cook them because she was cooking them on the stand. And so I love that. That's a really kind of new, Yorky moment. And then I would probably end, I'd walk home. And then I'd probably duck into another bookstore. I love the Strand, which is on 11th and Broadway, which was obviously one of the historic

secondhand bookstores. Now it's been rebooted as a sort of a bit nicer, but it still has its atmosphere. So I'd do that little circuit. I'd sort of walk around the Nolator through Soho, walk up to lower fifth, probably get a manicure at Rojobe because I love that manacures are affordable in America. Do you find that hard as an American in Britain? Can you get a manicure? You know, it's funny that you ask that, because in New York, I did all the time. There's a chain called diva nails that I really like or dashing diva I used to love them I would get I guess I got more pedicures than manicures and I have been in London well the UK since 2011 I don't know if I've ever gotten a manicure or a pedicure here I don't think I have I think I stopped I'll mean I'll do my nails

myself sometimes but yeah I guess I haven't done that in a while I didn't mean to call you out I was I don't shame you. But I think it's the fact that I would never pay, I would never pay rock bottom rates for a manicure because I would worry about what people were being paid. But, you know, they are relatively affordable compared to what it would cost in the UK or most of Europe. And my hands never look cleaner

than when they've just been sort of buffed and polished. And it's for a man. I'm not wearing nail polish. But they just look like they've had magic soap waved over them. So I do love that manicure. So I probably have a manicure, head up to low fifth, across Union Square, buy some stuff for dinner, duck into the strand just so there's any other books I wanted,

and then then I had home and cook the food. That would be my Saturday circuit. That sounds beautiful, so relaxing. And I'd probably, I must admit, I'd probably have a margarita at some point, somewhere on the way, just to keep you going. So where's the best margarita in this route? Do you know, in this route, they used to be,

I used to go to Rocking Horse in Chelsea, it was just shut. another one of my favorite margarita joints just shut. The health code has been a cracking gown. I know. It's very depressing. I'm looking on that route. I would be looking for a new one.

So if anyone has any suggestions, tell me the margaritas I haven't had. I go to Calgirl Hall of Fame in the West Village. That's another one of my margarita spots. But I'd love to have some recommendations. Okay. I'll go back to you on the mark. I hear any of you.

If any listeners can tell me, I don't know. So what are some of our mustseys if we're visiting New York for the first time? So when I wrote a guidebook to New York, I worked on the Upper West Side, the Upper East Side, and Central Park, which is not an area that I would usually find myself in. Or before that, I wouldn't. I'm very much a downtown person. I would always say to people that, of course, you've got to go to Central Park, but start at the top, not the bottom. We all start at the bottom of Central Park because it's just easier. And also, historically, the top could be quite sketchy, and I think people learned that that was the last part of the park to feel less of a no-go zone. But if you go up to, you know, 120th Street and amble down, you'll see things like Harlem Meer.

You'll see much less trafficked parts of the park, and you'll really get a sense of how it was engineered. to be this playground for New Yorkers. My favourite tidbit about the park that I learned when I was writing about it was, because it's an artificial design, everything in it is configured to the user-friendly. You can tell where you are using numbers on the lampposts. But all the water features in the park were given different names so that you could never be confused by directions.

There is only one pond. There is one reservoir. There is one mea. Every water body, there is not the south and north pond, so that people wouldn't accidentally go to the wrong place. Which I love these invisible ways of which Central Park is laid out to be user-friendly. I don't really like the outdoors. So it's the perfect space for me. It's sort of like green space for urban people.

I'm, you know, close enough to a car, so I don't get too nervous. But I would do that and I would go up to the Frick. I think the Frick is a magical asset in New York. makes it special is that you're getting a two for one. Your Fifth Avenue uptown used to be lined with extraordinary mansions, and almost all of them were pulled down in the last century or so to make way either for commercial buildings or for apartment complexes. Occasionally, one of the mansions survived, and that, one of those, was the Frick, owned by Henry Clayfrick, the evil industrialist from the low 19th century. So you get to see an old.

old New York, golden age mansion. And then you walk inside, and he had the perfect combination to assemble an extraordinary old master's collection. He had deep pockets and an unprincipled art wrangler. And Duveen, who wrangled all of his art, got whatever he wanted using whatever means. And he also had flawless toast. So the Frick has three or four Pierre de la Francescas,

long before art history considered him significant. A big chunk of the world's Vermeers, of which I think are about 15 in total, I think three of them are in the Frick. The Bellini in the Frick, a great friend of mine who works in the Old Master's World, said the Bollini in the Frick is the most important painting in York for art history. So you've got this small collection of Old Master greatest hits. It does make the Mets' old master collection seem as hidden miss as it is. Wow. To me, it's incredible. I would give you a third hidden gem.

New York is very interesting because, of course, it's a global, it's a global assemblage of people from everywhere. But those people are literally from everywhere. And one of the things that makes me chuckle is that there is a little Britain in New York, which is on Greenwich Avenue in the West Village. And there is an assemblage of shops and restaurants, which are all British. And they have British service. It's not great. They have British attitudes, I'm not smiley.

But they also have British food. And Myers of Keswick on Hudson truly has anything I would miss from a British, that M&S food hall. I can go in there and I can get clotted cream. I can get ribina. I can get Easter eggs. I'll pay extra for them. But I love the fact that, you know, New York's fame for all of its immigrant enclaves. But we forget that there really is a little patch of New York that almost every nationality has commandeered.

So there is a little Britain in New York that's well worth this thing. What would you say is the biggest difference between New York and London? Size. The way I explain New York to London is who haven't visited, I say if you take the circle line and amputate whatever is within the circle line, that is Manhattan so therefore it's the New York that a visitor thinks of the whole of New York

is like greater London but the distances in New York are so much more compact that getting around and doing more in a day is much easier you know I when I lived in London you know I would live in

I could live in Hammersmith my friend would be in Stoke Newington that is an hour and a half by bus each way it's very hard as a visitor to New York to really face that kind of logistical hurdle. And I think those are realizing how compact Manhattan in particular is in comparison to London changes the way you approach it. And it means you think about doing more.

What do you think is the biggest difference? Do you agree on that? What do you notice? You know, people ask me this all the time. And I think New York and London are quite similar. Obviously, there's more history over here in the UK. And I find London to be quite charming. I like the villagey feel of the different neighborhoods.

I actually, I find that people, I think, integrate a bit more over here, the international people where I felt like in New York people kind of still segregated themselves a little bit. For a visitor, New York could be easy if you were in certain Manhattan locations. But when I lived in New York, I felt like you did. living in the UK. Like I felt like, oh my God, I'm in Brooklyn, my friends in Queens, that might as well be Germany, you know.

No, and I can see that. And I think, you know, I'm lucky I live in Manhattan, and most of my friends live in Manhattan, so that makes the logistics of that, you know. But I think for visitors, yes, there are some visitors who'd stay in Brooklyn, and I can understand now why you'd stay at the William Bayle or the hoxton, which I love in Williamsburg.

But, you know, as a visitor, I think, if you're staying in a hotel, not an Airbnb, and I would always stay in a hotel. Not an Airbnb person. There's an episode of travelogue all about that. Yes, not my thing. But if you're as a visitor and you're in Manhattan, everything is at your fingertips.

And that means you can be more ambitious with what you hope to get done. I think it's exciting as a visitor. It means, you know, you can really drink deep. Yeah, I have to hear. I'm not sure I heard the episode about why you don't like Airbnb's. What's that all about? If some, here's, I was raised, this is probably my mother coming out, she would love to hear this. You know, I don't think it's a vacation if I have to make my own bed.

I do not want to come back to a room. I'm not particularly tidy. I'm not dirty, but I'm not very tidy. I'll leave, you know, a towel here, a T-shirt there. And I love that the magic of a hotel is that someone tidies it up for you. It's like having a professional, it's like paying to have a mark. you know, ran after you when you were four and said, pick up that t-shirt.

I love that. I don't love, I don't love the fact that I have to, I'm essentially self-catering in an Airbnb. I also don't love the fact that when a problem occurs with Airbnb, you have much less recourse. If a hotel overbooks you, they'll walk you to another site because they have to.

When I had a, when I booked an Airbnb for the Olympics in Korea, for example, four days before I was supposed to arrive, the host just cancelled on me, leaving me high and dry, not losing any money, but with nowhere to stay. And I don't like the vulnerability of that. Yes, I can have travel insurers, but that doesn't find me somewhere to stay, whereas a hotel will find you somewhere to stay. And I think of that as very reassuring. Fair points. And I stay in Airbnbs all the time, but you're right. I mean, there's nothing like a little bit of pampering when you're on a holiday, having somebody else look after you.

I do like that idea. What you like about Airbnb? Why do you, you know, tell me why I'm wrong, because I always love hearing people's perspectives on this because it's something that, you know, we go back and forth. In the traveler offices, we go back and forth about it all the time. Yeah, I wouldn't say you're wrong. I guess I am more comfortable in Airbnb is because I'm usually traveling with a group of friends and we kind of like to have our own space, our own rooms. but then have just the comforts of, you know, I do, it's nice having a fridge or to be able to make tea in the morning or just have like breakfast there if you want. And yeah, it's nice to go out too.

But I guess I do like those little comforts if you're in a group that where you have more space, especially if people snore. I think this says more. So in other words, if you're traveling, if you're traveling with less appealing travel companions, you need a bigger space. I know, I think even if the companions are very appealing and the people I want to be spending time with, it's just, yeah, it's nice to have a little bit of space. No, I can see that. I can see that. And again, I have stayed in Airbnb's. My, my, you know, I've told, I've told the story on podcast before, but I remember we rented an Airbnb and out in East Hampton in the winter.

And it was a lovely house, but there were signs everywhere warning us that think that every surface was going to stain if we put anything. on it. And it was the least welcoming possible affect. I was fully aware that it was to be careful in someone else's home. But, you know, turning around and finding another sign that told me, be careful, this stains, really just, I maybe want to check into a hotel. I guess they can be hit and miss. And, oh, I would say one other thing that I like about Airbnb is I find the Wi-Fi to usually be more reliable. Not always. But, I guess I do too much work when I'm traveling. And I should just leave it at home.

But for me, I like having a good Wi-Fi connection, which I feel is often lacking in a hotel. No, I can see that. I think, yes, I think hotel infrastructure for Wi-Fi, there are often not enough bandwidth for the number of people staying in the hotel when it's busy and it can really slow down. And it does make the residential one will be better, absolutely.

Mark, before I let you go, can we do a little lightning round of your favorite places in New York? Fire away. Tell me, whatever you want to like. Okay. How about a coffee shop? My favorite coffee shop is definitely gasoline alley on Lafayette and Haastum, where the coffee is superb, the baristas are super friendly, and it feels like a community without you're having to talk to everyone constantly.

How about lunch spot? If I go out for lunch, I would go to Rintin Tin, which is in my neighborhood. I would order the fried Hulumi because Hulumi is not an easy thing to find in America, but quite commonplace in the UK. I have a really good glass of wine. It's a sort of French North African restaurant. It's always quiet. I have meetings there all the time. I love it. Yes, Hulumi is everywhere here for Americans who don't know. It's a delicious salty cheese. It's what mozzarella will grow up to be when it wants to be more delicious. I love it. Where do you like to go for dinner? For dinner? I love there's a there is a small local

chain of restaurants called Aria Terra. There's a whole group of them. And they are the most delightful, easy bistro type place. You can walk in and there's small plates, but I just wince to even say that, but you can order three or four things and there's cheap wine and they're always busy and you really get a sense of sort of like come in for 45 minutes, eat quickly. You can go on your own, you can go with a group. You always feel welcome. So wherever there's an aria, there's Narea in Midtown, I go before the theatre. There's one of the West Village. There's a terror in Tribeca. I love them, and they're literally my fail sites.

Where do you like to hang out at night? If you want me to, I'm a bit of a cocktail person. I started writing about cocktails a long time ago and stumbled into that world, which I love. Café dame Tame in Greenwich Village is an old Italian-American coffee shop that a group of Australians took over a few years ago, including my friend Nauran. And they've made it a Nogroni palace. and I love going to Danto, have one of their many weird and wonderful variations on a Nogroni. I have the unlike Clean Nogroni, which has chili and pineapple in it, but is really delicious.

And Caffir Dante is just, it's like my clubhouse. That's where I would, if any, my friends know that if I'm going to suggest somewhere to meet, it will always be Caffirondon. Well, how about a rooftop bar in this summer? Is there anyone that you like in particular? Do you, I think New York has a dearth of rooftop bars. I think it's one of those bizarre things that New York should have a lot of and somehow doesn't. It has a lot of really cheesy, ghastly ones that you would have to club me over the head and drag me onto.

If I want a rooftopy experience in New York, I'd go to Grand Banks or Island Oyster, which are sister restaurants. One is on a boat down in Battery Park City and the other is on Governor's Island just off the tip of Manhattan and open in the summer. And I think they give you the views that you go to a rooftop restaurant and bar for. Manahatta, which is Danny Meyer's new restaurant, is on the 28th floor somewhere in the financial district. Not quite the rooftop and not outdoors, but that also has a phenomenal view. Fancy restaurant, but I absolutely love it. But I'd go to Grand Banks at Island Oyster to have that kind of New York laid out in front of me experience.

And final question, are there any culture tips that we should know about New York that foreigners in particular should know before visiting New York? My favorite thing, a friend of mine who moved to New York, a couple years after I did, she said to me, she's produced and she said, darling, I have to ask, when you walk into a shop and people say to you, good morning, how are you? Do they want to know? I don't know what to say, because how do you answer that? And I would always say, I think the greeting culture in America and in New York is very unfamiliar, especially to Brits. And people engage with you to a greater degree. And it's okay to just be like, I'm good, how are you? Or it's okay to keep your earphones on. You don't have to engage in conversation.

It is merely social lubricant. But I've loved watching first time, you know, British visitors have their politeness and convenience instincts kind of. short circuit and not know what to do when someone asks them, how are you from a shop? One more quick question because I think this is important for foreigners. The tipping culture, it's so different in the US compared to the UK. What advice do you have on tipping for restaurant and taxi? I always say, I always say, actually sometimes I say, don't worry, I live here because most servers in New York hear an English accent,

and they know that some people use it as an excuse to under-tip because they didn't realize. So I always want to say, don't worry, and I have this work. I round my taxi up to the dollar above. So if it's under 20 bucks, I'll round it up from like $9, $10 to $11. I'll do that. In New York, I would double the tax on dinner and add a little bit extra because it's the easiest way.

I don't like doing 20% or whatever. I'll double the tax, round it off, blah, blah, blah. And my bartender friends are going to hate me on this. But they try and say you should tip $2 a drink. I do only tip one buck a drink unless I'm in a fancy cocktail bar, when I will tip as if it's a meal. So in a bar for a glass of wine, you're getting a buck. If you're making me a groney, you're getting tipped as if you made me dinner.

And I think that's a good rule of thumb, because it does require a bit more work than uncooking the wine. Am I a terrible person? I'm sure people will say to me that I'm under-tipping. I apologize in advance for the next restaurant I walk into. I didn't even know the $2 thing was a thing at bars these days. Any bartenders listening, please tweet out us and tell us. Yes, I know it's probably $3 now.

We're probably already under-ticking. And in the UK, it's nothing at the bar. So, yeah. So much more straightforward. It's more straightforward. The challenge with tipping is always, you know, I'd love the fact to not have to carry any more cash. It just means you have to plan ahead in a way that no tipping, no, something doesn't.

But they can't make it work here. I know. I wish that wasn't true because I think tipping annoys everyone because it confuses everyone. I just want everyone to be paid well. And however, it has to happen. But anyway, Mark, it has been so great talking to you. You've given such wonderful advice on what we should do the next time we're in New York. where can people find out more about you?

People can find me on Twitter. If you want to talk to me, I'm on Twitter at Mark J. Elwood, which is M-A-R-K-J-E-E-L-L-W-O-O-D. And if you want to look at me on Instagram, I'm not a big Instagram person. I'm trying to be better, but I'm Mark Elwood, one word. Thanks so much, Mark. Pleasure.

Lovely to do with you, Sarah. I am so excited to have some new places to check out the next time I'm in New York City. I've actually been to Cafe Dante back in the day. but this was before it became a Nogroni palace, so it is definitely going to be on my list for the next trip. You will find links to all of Mark's great recommendations on postcardacademy.com. So I would love to know, are you on Team Hotel or Team Airbnb? Is expat a dirty word? And perhaps most importantly, do you know where we can find a good margarita downtown in New York City?

Email me at sarah at postcardacademy. co, or you can send me a message on Instagram. My handle is now. Sarah Micahettel, I changed it after launching my new podcast, podcasting step by step, so I didn't have to have five million different social media handles for all the different things that I'm interested in. I hope you enjoyed this episode. That's all for now. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahmicatel.com

slash blank no more.