Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Czechoslovakia: Post-Communist Expat Adventures

Episode Date: May 21, 2021

Czechoslovakia doesn’t exist anymore. But it did when my American friend moved there in the early 1990s. Today, we tend to think of Europe as being one of the most free regions of the world. Pro-human rights. It can be difficult to imagine how many Central and Eastern Europeans lived under Communism until the revolutions of 1989.The Communist regime in Czechoslovakia was brutal until the people kicked them out in what is known as the Velvet Revolution for how smoothly it seemed to go. Fun fact, Shirley Temple Black, yes, the actress Shirley Temple, was U.S. Ambassador to Czechoslovakia at the time and was involved in all this. Back then, my friend Jim Lukach a creative writing grad student, but the buzz of post-Communist Europe called. He packed up everything and moved to the Slovak side of Czechoslovakia to teach. He joins me today to talk about his expat experience in the early 90s and whether we can ever truly go native in our adopted countries. Hello! I'm your host, Sarah Mikutel. But the real question is, who are you? Where are you now and where do you want to be? Can I help you get there?Visit sarahmikutel.com to learn how we can work together to help you achieve more peace, happiness, and positive transformation in your life.Book your Enneagram typing session by going to sarahmikutel.com/typingsessionWant to connect on Insta? Find me hereFor the next two days, get 50% off my course Podcast Pitch Perfection. You don’t have to have your own show. This is about getting on other podcasts to share your message. Not only will you learn how to craft irresistible pitches, you’ll learn how to tell your own story, how to interview, and so much more. Visit https://sarahmikutel.com/maypitch and use code MAY2021 at checkout for 50% off. Valid for the next two days.Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to Live Without Borders, a travel and wellness show for expats, the expat curious, and globally minded citizens of the world. We are the travelers, the culturally curious, the experiences and not things kind of people. And we know that freedom is about more than getting on a plane. It's about becoming the most heroic versions of ourselves, which is why on this podcast you will hear insider travel secrets, inspiring expat stories, and advice on how to live abroad. but you will also hear episodes that will help give you the clarity, focus, and skills you need to create a life that will set your soul on fire. I am your host, Sarah Micatel, a certified clarity coach trained in the Enneagram, and I first moved abroad on my own at age 18, and I have been permanently enjoying life in Europe since 2010. If you are ready to make some big moves in your life

and want my help moving from someday to seize the day, visit live without borderspodcast.com. Czechoslovakia doesn't exist anymore, but it did during my guest's lifetime and during my lifetime as well. Today, we tend to think of Europe as being one of the most free regions of the world, pro-human rights. It can be difficult to imagine how many Central and Eastern European people lived under communism until the revolutions of 1989. And Czechoslovakia was part of this. The communist regime was quite brutal there until November 1989, when the people kicked them out in what was known as the Velvet Revolution for how smoothly things seemed to happen. Fun fact, Shirley Temple Black. Yes, the actress Shirley Temple was involved in this. She was U.S. ambassador to Czechoslovakia at the time.

And my friend Jim was excited about the buzz that was happening in this time and he wanted to be part of it. And he's here today on this podcast to talk about his expat experience in the early 90s and whether we can truly ever go native in our adopted countries. Let's jump right in. The world was changing. Semai peaceful revolution sweeps across Central Europe, former Soviet Union. And while this was happening in November of 89, I'm in grad school, Wichita, Kansas. And there's nothing to make you go to the ends of the earth when you live a year in Kansas, right? You're looking to go far. So I wasn't really happy with my, yeah, I was going for a Masters of Fine Arts Creative Writing. I wasn't happy how my writing was going.

But I did, I was a graduate teaching assistant, right, teaching English 101. And I loved that. So, you know, when the Berlin Wall comes down, I immediately, like, I don't know what I was thinking, right, at 23. Like, yeah, I'm just going to write a letter to the East German embassy in Washington to be like, hey, I want to come teach English in East Germany, you know. But I also did, you know, well, former Czech Slovakia, right? It was a United country and Poland. I think I even wrote the Soviet Union. So I'm sure all this is on file somewhere in the FBI. Who exactly were you writing to and how did you find this information? Because again, this was

kind of pre-internet when like internet wasn't mainstream then. No, I, you know, I was thinking about this. man, I may have actually went to the library. Wichita State University, the library. And I think I did pull out, yeah, hey, German Democratic Republic, you know, typed them a letter. I just sent it. I don't even know who, you know, I'm sure I found some kind of department,

whether it's, you know, the cultural attach or somebody. And, you know, the two positive responses I get were from the Czech Republic and, you know, Slovak Republic. Granted, it was a united country, but, you know, We don't need to get into domestic politics. So Czech Republic is like, hey, come over right now. We have a teaching job. You know, and I'm sure it's European travelers.

They were giving me a job in Prague, one, right? Old town, come live in Prague in the middle of Prague, right? Wow, mind-blowing. Couldn't do it, right? My family's ethnic Slovak. of respect from my grandmother who was born in the, you know, in the old days of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire as ethnic Slovak. Right. She would have killed me if I went to the Czech Republic because, you know, hey, we know how Euros get along. And yeah, Slovak's at that time, right, really weren't digging the Czechs.

So I wound up, hooking up in this organization, wound up in, well, then Czechoslovakia, but really Slovakia. you know enough about the history to say exactly why your grandmother, or like what that disagreement was, or is that too complicated to go into? You've lived in Europe. I mean, they hate each other for the silliest of reasons, right? I believe it was because her cousin had more money than they did and lived in Prague, right? My grandmother was the most mellow, nicest person, like, classic grandmother. But before I left for Slovakia, she's like, look, I got some advice for you, right? She's like, one, don't trust the Hungarians. Two, don't trust the Germans, right? Three, don't trust the Russians. Four, don't trust the checks, but most of all,

don't trust the checks from Prague. You know, and there I go. Have a good trip. Okay, grandma. Thanks. So there I go. I'm carrying that euro baggage over with me, you know, and again, it's ancient, you know, from the Slovak point of blue, I'm sure if you have anyone the Czech Republic, they're rolling their eyes right now. It's like classic Slovaks, right? You know, they felt that most of the money when it was a united Czech Slovakia was being spent in Prague, for example, and that's where industry was being driven out of, you know, the Czech Republic where, you know, Slovakia was kept more rural and agricultural. Whether this is true or not, you know. Yeah. Just popping in here to give a tiny bit more of history. So after

World War I, the Austro-Hungarian Empire fell apart and new borders were created, and this included the formation of Czechoslovakia in 1918. That's when it officially became a country. And it was a democratic state for a while, but then in 1938, the Nazis took over, and during World War II, they killed an estimated 263,000 Czech Jews alone. Very brutal time. and the Soviets came in and helped liberate Czechoslovakia from the Nazis, but then the Soviets took over and made Czechoslovakia a communist country, and it became more oppressive over time despite protests in the late 60s. So a harsh communist regime, and this lasted for decades until communism started crumbling in Europe in 1989, as I mentioned before. And the communist

leaders in Czechoslovakia tried to hang on to power, but the protest, movements kept growing across the country. So 1989, communism ends in Czechoslovakia the next year. The country changed its name to Czech and Slovak-Fedict Confederate Republic, and a dissident playwright was elected president. Two years after that, a prime minister is elected for the Czech Republic and one is elected for Slovakia. And right away, they talk about breaking up the country. And popular opinion was against this, but the country officially split in two on January 1, 1993, becoming the Czech Republic and Slovakia. This is happening my time there, right, before the global digital revolution, right?

So there are no cell phones, right? I am completely untethered in the world, right? There is no internet. I mean, we're just starting to get here in the States, but, you know, Central Europe at that time did not have the infrastructure for any of this, you know, and I was the only way I kept in touch was either writing letters. Yes, I have a collection of letters that will be published one day, or trying to call home with a calling card from a phone box in former communist Europe. So that really just sets the scene. The geopolitical reality of former Soviet influenced country and

pre-digital, right? And again, all my experiences really somehow tie into that. drew you to that area specifically. Was it your heritage? Like, why there instead of, like, Paris or Rome or something like that? Come on. I was a poor, I know I was going to curse, but I was a poor-ass teaching assistant, right, Wichita State. So, no, I mean, also the excitement of it, right? Where I'm like, hey, here's post-revolutionary. It's just, the world is changing and I wanted to be a part of it, right? And at 24, you could say those ridiculous kinds of things, right? And that's what it was. And again, my ethnicity, yes, also. You know, the world was smaller and larger at the same time because,

you know, it meant something different to be an American, right, in 1991 in a former communist country than, let's say it does today or even any time after that, right? They, you know, people there were just so interested about life in America, you know, anything that was the total opposite of what, you know, of the culture they, they lived in and grew up in, you know. So as an American, you know, you and I talked about, you know, is this the theme of this going to be about going native? And in a lot of ways, it can't be because, you know, being an American opened a lot more doors than, you know, if I wasn't, for example, you know. Yeah. And I remember myself doing phone calls back home when I first lived in England when I was a teenager in the in the booth,

the red famous red boots that nobody uses anymore and having to use like a travel book. Yeah. And you know what? I don't feel like I like when I'm thinking of like traveling now and traveling back then, certain things are easier as far as like just looking at your phone for maps. but I don't feel like things are like so much better, you know. I felt like I traveled just fine and I saw what I wanted to see just fine back in the day. No, I agree.

And again, I'm not going to be the old man that says, hey, you kids get off my travel lawn, right? Let me tell you how great it was in 1991. But yes, I agree. Because, yeah, you don't have to worry about, you know, you pre-book your place, right? In the old days, we'd go to Budapest and some old lady would meet you at the train station say, hey, come stay at my place, which, yeah, okay. And then you would get on the tram and follow her home. And for $10 a night, you stayed in her apartment in Budapest, you know, which on one hand is wonderful, but, you know, it's also a little odd. Well, again, it's not, it's not

happening today, right? Yeah. Well, and I guess my point, I guess my point of saying that was like, not a get off my lawn perspective, but I can imagine younger people maybe thinking, God, that must have been awful back then when you weren't able to like just open an app and, you know, book an accommodation right away. Yeah, sometimes you would be at a train station and have to like pick from a list of like, all right, I'm going to take my chance on this one. Yeah, or, you know, go to the travel desk or find the travel agency in a town, which is just crazy, right? It's just places don't exist anymore, you know. Yeah. Well, you know, going native, You've lived abroad longer than me at this point. What is your definition of going native?

Well, I don't know if I've ever done it as hardcore as you did. Going native is different now, I think, because of technology. So I have friends from England now. I think a lot of expats, when they go over, a lot of their friends are international just because at first, because that's just who you meet, who you meet, who's. very open, who is like going to the same kinds of events as you and stuff, and then eventually you meet local people. And so even though I love England and have been living here for so long, I really just love history. I love everything. I doubt I will ever feel English. You know, I never will feel English. I will still feel quite American. However, I still like, because of FaceTime, I talk to my family. I talk to my mom every day. I talk to like my sister. quite a bit. I still listen to the news, like on podcasts about what's happening in the U.S.

So I'm still quite tethered to the U.S. because of technology. I wonder how my experience would be different if I were living here in the early 90s. So you never use the word wanker, for example. I do use English words. I don't say wanker, but like, yeah, I'll say rubbish and, you know, lift for elevator. And, you know, there's quite a few words that are different. And yeah, I'll use the English words. Yeah, I do. Because, see, for me, the first words I learned were the curse words. When I was in Slovakia, you know, the playground curse words, the hard slang. And that was always, that was a door opener too.

If you could curse like a five-year-old, you're in with anybody, right? Well, yeah, I would say that's pretty much my definition of going native as well. But when I was 25, there was also an element of Colonel Kurtz from Apocalypse now, like totally losing your mind. Without the mass murder, of course. So it was this weird combo that, you know, leaving myself open for everything and just, you know, letting emotions and feelings run amok, which I know is opposite of your stoic approach to life. So just imagine, you know, all the stoicism that you like and stuff and being the complete opposite at 25. That was me. But you know what? I think Stoics would say leave yourself open to experiences. And so, and yeah, I would say I leave myself open to trying new things for sure.

All right. Yeah, but this was like complete emotional abandon and, you know, damage coming later, which we certainly could be on because there was plenty of damage coming home from Slovakia. But we're not talking about that yet, are we? So here's a little backstory on how I met Jim. It's kind of an unusual story. So I was young in my corporate communications career working in New York City, and I wanted to learn all of the things. And so I got permission to go to a communications conference in Chicago. And Jim was one of the speakers. And he was so interesting and just talking about how you could bring in technology. This was like back in 2007, I think. And just everything he was saying was so innovative. And I thought, wow, I could learn so much from that. And I thought, wow, I could learn so much from this guy. And so after the conference, I emailed him and I think I just thanked him. And somehow we started this email correspondence. He worked over in New Jersey. I was working in Manhattan.

And we chatted about everything. We talked about communications and work stuff, but also just a lot about life stuff. I told him everything. Things that I didn't tell anyone else. He heard my guy troubles. and we just started this sort of like pen pal friendship that lasted for years. And I think at one point I asked him, or like told him he was my mentor or something like that. And he was kind of like, oh my, I think I would make a better fake mentor for you. I don't know if I'm what you would call a proper mentor. Well, maybe he didn't use the word proper. Maybe I'm Englishifying it. But that was the gist. I think a good reflective question to ask is, how did I do you? get here. Who influenced me? Yes, your parents, your teachers, but who else? We have met so many

random people throughout our lives who have changed the course of our lives forever. It could have been one conversation, it could have been a friendship that you had years ago, perhaps somebody you spent years in a pen pal relationship with, but our lives were forever changed by these people. So it's fun to just think back who helped make me who I am today and to give a lot gratitude to them and maybe call them up and ask them to do a podcast episode with you. So, you know, there I was teaching English to university students in Wichita, Kansas. So naturally, when I apply for a job over in Europe, I'm like, I'm going to teach in the university. It's going to be a wonderful old city, you know, cobblestones. So, of course, I get sent to this,

you know, small, nondescript, then nondescript, industrial town. of about 20,000 and I'm teaching fifth graders. Right. So, hey, nothing, nothing better in travel when your preconceived notions are destroyed, right? And you have humility heaped upon you, right? So, so again, I think being in a smaller town, I, you know, everyone was so interested in, in the states, like I mentioned before. And no one really had any experience with many Westerners. So in a lot of cases, I'm the first American, these kids, these parents, these people are meeting, right? And, you know, I am also ethnic Slovak, so I have this extra, you know, I don't know, I feel... Cashe.

Responsibility. No, yeah. I got to live up to some kind of street cred now, right? So, you know, the amount of, you know, crazy situations just that created was unbelievable. You know, to be sitting in a bar or, you know, it's one hotel restaurant that I would go to after school, would read and get a beer. And inevitably, someone would wind up at the table, right? And it could be parents of people, of a kid I taught, or high school students who want to speak English or university students or teachers. So, you know, the door as an American was wide open to me from the amount of people, right, that I met and came in touch with some scary, like, you know, mafioso types all the way to, you know, absurdist playwrights and Army Dodgers and this whole tramps, it's this crazy subculture thing.

So, you know, that's how all of these things happen, somehow hinging off, you know, being American, almost to the point of being a minor celebrity. I don't know if we've ever talked about this, but I don't know everyone on social media now is a minor celebrity, but mine happened in real time, right? For example, if I gave a good class, the fifth graders, you know, just a really discerning audience, and I was particularly funny, they would ask me to sign autographs, right? I am not kidding. And these were kids I would see every day. And I'm like, really? They're like, yeah, man, we need it an autograph. Or else I'd walk down the street and kids would point, like, they'd be walking with their parents.

They're like, there's the American. There's the American. Right. Like every day. I mean, it was just nuts. And then it would, you know, like I said, going sitting in a bar and, you know, a cafe or restaurant, you know, speaking English. And someone would just overhear the English. And that was immediately be an invite for them to come to the table.

And there were times, you know, winding up from someone you had no idea, winding up back in their apartment, 2 o'clock in the morning. They're waking up their wife to bring out a bottle of moonshine and some colbassie. And they're absolutely mortified how this happened. But it did, you know. It's just crazy. You were the king of the castle. That sounds so fun. So I imagine being in like a communist area, they were not given much opportunity to learn English before you got there.

Am I wrong? How did the people there know English? No, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, most of like, let's say, so I was teaching, you know, fifth through eighth grade primarily. And then I did adult classes too. But, you know, fifth graders were learning Russian, you know, Russian or German, right? both under the Soviet sphere at the time. So, you know, like the first year I taught out of like this old communist English book.

My place was like an open, revolving door of these people to show up. Hey, I want to learn English. Can you teach me English? Okay. You know, it's just crazy. What was the food like there? I don't know that much about Slovakia. Right.

So it's just classic, you know, central European. You know, which we were used to here. You know, like Easter for us is still pretty Eastern European. It's a little more Polish with as far as the types of food. You know, a lot of Kobasi. Again, a lot of fresh vegetables. Everyone had a garden, right? And everyone had fruit trees.

Well, here was an interesting thing, too. So this was a district capital of 20,000 people, but it was surrounded by Moldese villages, surrounded by a bunch of villages. and almost everyone still had family in these villages, right? They moved to the town for work or school or whatever. So twice a year, they would have a pig killing, right? They would raise a pig. I know, it's totally assaulting your vegan sensibilities here. But again, this is, you know, culturally, this is what was available to them.

And what they would do, they would use every single part of the pig, right? They were preserving. They were, you know, and you would get invited to these. And this is like what was the big family get together, right? The Fourth of July picnic, you know, let's invite American. And, hey, as an honor, American, we've just killed the pig. So guess what? You're the first one that gets to have, you know, brains and scrambled eggs.

Here you go. And here's a nice big glass of moonshine that's all that down at 5.30 in the morning, you know. So it was a lot of, you know, pork-based, you know. And again, you know, it would be preserved, you know, in various forms that would last your half a year. and you would raise another pig and, you know, the same family event would go on, you know. But again, a lot of soups. You have to have soup, right, at lunch. Right?

So my daughter's full Slovak. She's full on board with soup every day. I mean, if it's like even here, it's supposed to be 90 today. In Slovakia, you have to have soup. At least in time. Soup is pretty healthy, right? Yeah. And they had so many different ways of doing it.

The ultimate, our favorite food was something. called Viprajani sear. It sounds way more exciting. And what it was was this fried piece of cheese usually served with tartar sauce and French fries. And it was the ultimate beer drinking food. Hey, and vegan enough for you that you would have been able to have it.

Oh, no. Did they... Did they... You eat cheese or no? Well, I do still eat cheese sometimes. So I'm a vegetarian. I can't claim to be vegan, but I am mostly vegan. That does sound tasty, what you just described.

I did have vegetarian. friends to, and that was the go-to there, other American teachers. But that was, you know, Wieners-Schneitzel kind of things. Very, very hardy, very, you know, freshwater fish or fish from the Danube was another. So you mentioned this is industrial, but like, where exactly is Slovakia? Is it, where was the fish coming from? Mostly from the Danube. So the city was a small industrial city, right? At the time, there was one big, it was one big factory there. that produced some kind of artificial fabrics or something, right? But, you know, once you got out of the city, you were out.

I mean, it was just country, beautiful rolling hills that, you know, rolled all the way west and piled up into these big mountains out on the Polish border. But it was, you know, going south, too, there was a line of the Carpathian mountains that ran all the way down to Hungary. And when you got a little further south from where I lived, they were covered in vineyards and stuff. I mean, it was once you got out of the, you know, out of this, out of this small city, you were out in the hills, you know. And a lot of people kept, you know,

gardens, but, you know, if you lived in an apartment, you were still eligible to have a piece of property in this big community garden that, you know, it was nice you'd have to ride your bike to and people would set up a little cottage. It's really nice. Yeah, I have a friend who grew up in East Germany, and that was like a very popular thing there as well. Since we're talking about Germans, you know, everyone loved Americans. hated Germans, right? Because they had, in the early 90s, they had all the money, right? So they were coming to the east, you know, on drunken, you know, long weekends and stuff like that. Yeah, it was, yeah, that was the big. So it was really good to be an American and not, not a German at that

point. Oh, well, so that's interesting because, like, now I can't stand what they call stagadoos. Yeah. So here in England, they call a bachelor party, a stagadoo. And it's gotten to, like, for a lot of stag dues because travel has gotten so cheap to go around. They'll go to, like, Prague and whatever and just be like drunk and fools. No, I know. That's what Germans were doing, but only because of, you know, West Germans because, you know, the, again, it was off the chart, the exchange rate at that time. You know, I was paying, you know, best beer in the world and still to some degree from Czech Republic.

You know, 10 cents for a half liter, you know. Again, I was making $30 a month. But that goes a long way. But I wasn't paying rent. So, you know, it was all the beer and cigarettes that I could handle, you know. Yeah. But it was crazy. You know, you'd buy a train ticket.

It was, you know, $5 to go to Bratislava, the capital, you know. Where, you know, go to New York, which is, well, same distance. You know, I'm paying $20 now, you know. Bratislava is on my list of places to. Yeah, I'm sure it's different. So I went back. I took my wife back. We went, just as a follow-up.

So all these kids grow up. All these kids I taught are like 35 years old now, right? Yeah. So I got invited back. It took me a while to go back a long time before I wanted to visit again. And I went back from, you know, I used to go to Germany for meetings. And then I, you know, a couple times I flew back to Slovakia. But one of the students got married and we got invited to his wedding.

So I brought my wife with me. She got to experience just a glimpse of the insanity. You know, I got a Slovak weddings, you know, two days long. You know, you have a pre-meal, and then the wedding and then a post-meal. It was a lot of fun. So it was good. She got to see some of the old haunts and meet some of these people. Yeah, I think I read in one of your old emails to me that it started at 1 p.m.

and ended at 5.30 a.m. and there were like six meals served. It was nuts. And, of course, one of them was these. last one of the night was soup. So got to have, yeah, it was closing it out. It was crazy. Yeah. Well, Jim, I asked you once. So we used to email just for some backstory. So I emailed you and was like, wow, I loved your presentation. And then we spent years writing to each other. And we talked about internal communication stuff because that's what we were both involved in. But we spent most of the time chit-chatting about life. And one day I said, tell me a funny story through email. I said

this. And you told me a story about the early 90s. And it's one of my favorite stories of all time. So can you be an author and read this for us now? That's nuts. So I guess before I read this, just a little bit about the person who took us to this theater festival, right? His name was Yvonne. And Ivan was an absurd, I can't even say this without smiling, an absurdist puppet master. I can't make it up, right? An absurdist puppet master who was, you know, and he never said this, I heard from other friends, but he was the center of the revolution in 89. He would stand in the main square in town.

No one else around him, you know, all these events are going on in Prague. and he was the one who, you know, was the big vocal leader there. So really interesting guy. He later wanted to go on it and be a goat. I can't say this. A goat farmer, right? Uh-huh. He wanted a goat ranch, which he did.

So, you know, I don't even remember how Yvonne came in our lives, but he was this, you know, loved absurd theater, loved, you know, would perform publicly just to perform, right? It's just like crazy. Before we get to the story, I just want to like flag how I had never really thought about the smaller towns being involved in the revolutions. So interesting to me because, yeah, you think of Berlin and you think of like, yeah, Czech Republic or Paris. You don't really think about the outskirts and how brave those people must have been to be standing, you know. Exactly.

And, you know, and it went from this one person to the students at, right, the gymnasium, right, the one. who are studying to go to university. And, you know, they walk out of class. And then, yeah, it just continued to grow. And you didn't, you know, you don't really think about this. And, you know, even down to the point where I helped one student, again, he was in the gymnasium with, you know, just doing English conversation and stuff while he prepared for university.

But his father was a Protestant minister in the next town over. But yet his classmate, her father, was the secret policeman in charge. charge of watching him. Oh, wow. You know, and they, you know, at one of the graduation dances or stuff, you know, finally there was confrontation and stuff. So, yeah, there's all these other stories, you know, you always hear, you know, the big protest stories, but I mean, this all went on everywhere, you know. Yeah, yeah. All right, get, let's, I want to hear the story. Let's do it. All right. So here we go. I'm not sure what you were doing in the early 90s. I don't know, were you like 12?

But I, you know, but that was when I was in Czechoslovakia. Big changes everywhere, the transition from communism, Slovakia wanted independence, the internet revolution, etc. Slovakia didn't have the infrastructure for any kind of digital communications. So it was like being cut off from the world. I still wrote letters to the states and calling home was a crapshoot. So there was really only two ways to live there. Wow.

Be a pussy about everything. or go native. So politically incorrect. So I went completely native, most would say too far, but that would come later. I knew all kinds of people, people actually liked Americans then, drunks, mafia, people in the new government, the emerging business class, but I also knew a crazy bunch of writers and theater people. I had been to one theater festival before with them that ended with my friend cracking

his head open and another getting beat by the police. but that is a story for another time. So of course I jumped at the chance to go to another festival. My friend Yvonne, who was the maddest of the bunch, picked us up and we left for the festival. On our way there, he handed me the program, and while I was reading it,

noticed that there was a group performing from Senica, the place where I was living. I said that was great and asked him who was in the group. He looked around the car and said that it was us. We were going to be performing Jack Cater. on the road. Compressing time. The festival was insane,

crazy absurd performances, and a lot of women and drinking. So when it came time to form our play without any practice or discussion, Yvon took us to a bar with the big beer garden in the back. The place started filling up, and I got nervous and started drinking

beer and shots. Then Slovak television appears came in and set up a camera right in front of the table, where we would be doing our reading. My friend that I grew up with in the States was also living with me in Slovakia and teaching with me, and he started to play guitar, and then it began. I read all of Dean's lines, right from on the road, in English, and my friend read Jack Carrowan's part in Slovak.

It was crazy, because in the middle I busted out in Shakespeare, because I didn't think anyone understood what I was saying, and res soliloquy from Richard the second, let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories about the death of kings, which really was the highlight of the whole thing. At the end of the festival, right, party, there's a party at the end. The guy from Slovak TV came out to us and asked if I had jet lag.

I told him no. Then he asked me if I was hungover, and I told him yes, because that was my normal feeling then, and I asked him why. He said our performance was a little flat, and he expected more from a professional American acting troupe. It seems Yvonne told everyone we were professional movie actors from America. On Monday at school, all my kids asked me what I was doing on television.

The end. I have read that story numerous times, and I burst out laughing every time that I read it. You know, and I wish I was lying about any of that. And it's pretty much exactly how it happened. There's a lot of craziness left out in the middle of this. But, yeah, that's, we had no idea. We had no idea that Yvonne told everyone that he, and that's just the way he was, you know, he thought it would be hilarious that he would tell everyone he was bringing professional American actors with him to perform on the road.

It's so good. We were reading off different pages. It's just ridiculous. I could still still see it. The first theater festival he took us to was also really crazy. But, I mean, that was time with Yvonne, you know. It's so, like, I can't even imagine even coming up with a plan like that. Never mind getting all these other people involved and actually doing it.

You know, and, you know, and this is one event. There are several, you know, beyond this that are on this level of just like, what? Seriously, what went on there, right? Like, that was another thing, you know, come back to the travel. We, you know, got to do a lot of travel. in that central part of Europe because it was really the only thing we could afford. So, you know, spend a lot of time in Hungary and in Poland. Yeah, it was great. Poland was pretty crazy too. What feelings are coming up for you as you're thinking about this?

You know, just for my own mental well-being, they're just, now they just have to be happy. They're right there. I was way more interesting then, but I'm way more happier now. relishing my mediocrity. Because you know what I'm going to do after this? I'm going to make a banana bread. And I'm going to get crazy and put a lot of extra chocolate chips in it, right? Because that's the way I roll now. Yeah. So you had your wild times. And then you went and did a bunch of other jobs. And I met you when you were working in corporate America. And now you're stay home dad, right? I'm a stay-at home dad, yes. And you also are an amazing photographer. And you actually wrote, a collection of essays about your time abroad, right?

What was the name of that? Lost Inside the Happy Noise. It's pretty much, I don't know, captured the whole feeling, right? Of it. It's, you know, I'm certainly not pitching the book. It's available on Amazon. And as you know, I was up to number two million in books there. It's self-publish.

It was a cathartic act. I don't know if you really want to go into, you know, a lot of baggage came home after living. You know, just imagine every day. Right. Something of great emotional of value or excitement is going to happen. And when you spend three and a half, four years of every day, you know, that kind of idiocy right at the theater festival, but even, you know, little things, the joy of teaching kids and, you know, drunken nights or falling in love with beautiful sloth women. You know, that's going to do some damage on you when you have to come home, right? And it did. It was sort of rough 10 years after this. So, you know, right? Why was it a rough 10 years? Was it because things couldn't live up to your exciting past? I mean, you know, I know that I said this out loud to my friend Dave there in the middle of drinking. You know, it'll never be as good as this, right?

And we just need to accept that. Sure, it'll be different. You know, it was just so intense that, you know, and again, your emotions are running so high or even, you know, intellectual pursuits the amount of reading that I did there, you know, I can't spend time reading six hours a day now, you know, reading war and peace, right? So again, you had all these intellectual pursuits, you had all these great people and all these out of control emotions, and then all of a sudden, that's gone. Yeah. You know, some kind of, I'm not making light of it.

I don't know else how to describe it, but some kind of emotional shell shock, right, when you take this intense life. Reverse culture shock, they call it. Yeah. Well, hey, there you go. I wish I would have known that because that's what I had. Yeah, and it was rough. I mean, you know, destroyed a marriage, right? It's just crazy. And then so, yeah, I wrote this book. You know, it needs to be reedited. And maybe one time I will go back to it because, you know, the book is very personal. But, you know, now when I look back at my experience, you know, where I really find it interesting was, you know, how it was set in this specific time and how that, you know, affected the events of my life. right. Yeah. It's fun looking back.

And I have a little meta surprise for you. Oh, no. What? I went back and was looking at some of our emails from back in the day. And I thought we could do a little play reenactment. Oh, boy. Some of them. Okay.

Sure. August 6, 2008. Should I quit my job and go to Italy for a month or two? I'm 60% that. there. Magic eight ball says, yes. I mean, why wouldn't you? I'm headed back to the motherland a week from Monday. Wow. What's the motherland, the Czech Republic? I'm thinking October for my trip, but I'm nervous about this. I used to travel all the time, but my parents have drilled the importance of stability into my head, and I would like to stop living with roommates at some point,

but that won't happen if I run off and blow all my money. But if I die within the year, it would be nice to do in Europe and not in my cubicle, though I wouldn't stay for a whole year, maybe a month. No, I wrote, Slovakia is the motherland. It would suck to be a cute, I don't know what I'm running, it would suck to be in a cubicle thinking I could have gone to Italy, but I wanted to be stable. You've come to the wrong person if you want to hear about the evils of running away. That's not why I've come to you. I need encouragement. Then go, you can always recover life, money, work. I've done it a couple times. what results ranging from horrific to great, but at least there was drama.

It doesn't seem like you are too worried about a career. You're smart. You will definitely come back and find a job, and who knows what you'll find on the road. Damn, I'm slowly starting to hate you. Smiley face. August 12th, 2008. Did you make a decision about Italy? I might be in the city on Thursday.

I'm coming to throw rocks at your office window. Well, I'm definitely going. I'm just not sure when. I had been planning October and was really happy about my decision this weekend, like really happy. Then my mother, who was visiting my sister this weekend when I was out of town, leaves me this letter about her extreme concern. And a friend calls me with all of her worries about me. Not that this has stopped me from doing anything in the past, but it could delay my plans a month. So I'm working on logistics to put other people's minds at ease. Wow, a letter that truly is official disgust at your plans. My mother didn't want me to go to live in Slovakia either. They are like that. September 5th, 2008. I'm thinking of leaving for Italy on October 13th or October 20th. I've become fixated on these dates for some reason.

If I go on the earlier day, I can perhaps rent my room for October and November and crash at places in between. If I leave later, I'll have more time to practice. Italian beforehand so I can talk to people as soon as I get there or try to. You will learn more by throwing yourself right into it. Go early. September 15th, 2008. Hello, so what's up with the Italy plans? You should blog when you go so I can hate you in real time. I bought my ticket for Rome yesterday with Eurofly. I think that's the name. Based on cursory research,

it's somewhat sketchy airline, but it gets you where you need to go. However, I have not received my e-ticket yet. Shouldn't that be instantaneous? Anyway, the ticket was cheap. I leave October 17th and plan on giving my notice today. Or asking if they'll have me back at the end of November. So I'm on my way. My parents are angry with me but are finally dealing. Though the recent economic news is pushing my father over the edge.

I received a voicemail this morning. How will you pay your rent, student loans, etc.? He will not let up. So I have this voice in the back of my mind that's making me feel really guilty and irresponsible for going. But I will try to set up a job before I return in November. So if you know of anyone hiring in communications,

editorial, HR, or marketing, please let me know. Also, do you know anybody in Rome? Yeah, sure, I know. This is Italian guy. That's great. I'm excited. I feel like I'm going. I'm happy for you.

Too late to feel guilty. You have the ticket. You may want to stay in Italy because by the time you come home, we'll be standing on soup lines. I like soup, so that works for me. Don't sweat the job thing. If you do, it will impact your time there. Something will happen. It always does. I'll keep my ears open for a job. We just fired people, so I would think they're not hiring. Let me know how it goes.

You're firing people? Christmas? Ugh. Well, you're right. I guess I can't back out now. Maybe they'll fire me and then I can collect unemployment. Whatever happens, I have to prove my father wrong. Isn't that what life's all about? I think Freud said that. Sorry, I don't know anyone in Rome. The Pope never returns my calls. The only Italians I know come from Brooklyn. 16th, 2008. So did you tell them? Well, I told my immediate manager, and she was cool with it, but then she told our director, this all happened at the end of the day. And now I have to talk to our director and VP. I'm not sure how that will go.

My manager asked if I wanted to come back after my trip, but she has no idea if they'd let me. I'm sort of dreading today. I came in early to try to talk to my manager before our director came in. But of course, the director and I wrote up in the elevator together. October 8th, financial crisis in full swing. So, is this the last day this week? I keep forgetting, probably on purpose. Bolsey move to quit your job now.

It's epic. I salute you. Well, it's too late to back out now, right? Oh, well, hopefully I won't end up destitute. I will be at my job until October 15th. I finished up a lot of my work today or so, I think. Your time grows short, Grasshopper. The student has become the teacher.

There you go. End seen. Yes. The full narrative. Mark, complete. Yeah, so, Jim, when everyone else was telling me not to go, you were the only one championing me. Hey, you know, if there's not anything that said about me, it's that I'm usually the voice of reason. So said plenty of times by plenty of people.

Well, good. I'm glad you didn't cave. There you go. Yeah. Well, and I actually, so I went, I ended up staying for two months. I had phenomenal time. Went back. Job hired me back.

promoted me, stayed there for another two years, and then I permanently moved over to Italy and England and haven't looked back since. There you go. Say? I miss our emails, though. We're going to have to resume that. I think we're going to write you more. Yeah, because we can just do a whole podcast of us reading emails. That's it. Because I'm sure other people are like, wow, this is really like two literary geniuses going at it here. I want to, I want to know how this is going to end up. Is she going to go? What's he going to do? I don't know. Who's going to know? But you know what? The moral of this is we've both done like things that other people would consider a little bit crazy and we landed on our feet. What's travel like for you now?

Basically trying, you know, with COVID, of course, you know, has just ruined that. So again, a lot of day trips, you know, and just trying to give my, my daughter, you know, basically the same way that, you know, I grew up as a kid traveling. Again, you know, we didn't like spend our summers at the Jersey Shore or, you know, relaxing, right, for vacation was not in my parents' mentality, right? There's no relaxing. There's no going to a resort. So we had a trailer and we were going to places like Gettysburg and Mystic and Williamsburg and York and York. town, you know, and then later on, you know, all the great Western national parks. So, you know, that's pretty much kind of our approach with our daughter, you know. She's been to Monmouth Battlefield

here in New Jersey more than a lot of professional stories, I think, by this point. So she knows where Washington set up the cannons. And, you know, again, we've been optimistic. And then I have a friend that I grew up with, who I also mentioned, you know, in the short essay, right? He lives up in Maine now at his family. So, you know, we go up to Maine fairly regularly. He's in, you know, just south of Portland. So my daughter just want dying to go to London and, you know. And she's five? She's five, yeah. That's amazing. She's precocious five, let's say that. What kind of travel future do you hope for her? Well, I hope I'm not like, you know, our parents and like, no, don't go. That's crazy. You know, no, go. Be crazy. Again, a lot of places to see in America. Yeah. You know, you know.

Now, at one point, oh, no, at one point I felt very strongly about that, and then I didn't, and now, you know, I'd do again, and she'll find a different world than I found it. I mean, you know, all my travel was pre-EU, so, you know, it was a big deal to travel in 91, you know, to get to Europe, you know, crossing borders and now, my first time over there, we'll go back this briefly, but, you know, it was really slipshot getting there, right? I flew to Vienna, get on a bus, right? I had little directions from the agency that I got associated with. And then I get to the then Czechoslovak border, and they pull me off the bus, right?

I'm just like, are you kidding me? And it started, you know, it was January, so it was starting to get dark. I'm like, they're going to pull me off the bus at the border. And I don't know, it's because I had a brand new passport kind of thing. But then they put me back on. I was like, holy smokes, you know. And that's what I just is like, you got to go with it. You know, whatever's thrown at you.

You just got to go, you know, don't fight it, you know, no resistance. Well, Jim, thanks so much for your time. Is there anything else you want to share? You know, you know, if you think of anything. Again, you know, sure, if you ever want to read more emails, let me know. Yeah, if you ever want to read a story, you can come back and practice your stories and give a reading. I will. I have to find something in the book.

There's one or two things that I still like in it. Thank you so much, Jim. It's been great talking to you again. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. That's all for now. Go ahead and follow the show or hit subscribe so you can hear more episodes like this. And if you would like my help taking bold action on your own dreams, like living abroad, changing careers and other life transitions, visit live without borderspodcast.com. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation. Sheet Sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahygotele.com

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