Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - How to be a Travel Writer with Nardia Plumridge

Episode Date: January 30, 2019

Ever dream of being a travel writer? Who hasn’t?! My guest Nardia Plumridge actually made it happen. In addition to writing for global publications, including Lonely Planet, Nardia also penned a book — Lost in Florence — that is due out this spring. In this episode, Nardia shares how she broke into the travel writing biz and offers tips on how to get your own work published.    I’m your host, Sarah Mikutel. Ready to travel? Sign up for my newsletter and get your free guide to cheap airfare.    Thank you so much for listening to this show. I know you’re busy and have many listening options, so it means a lot to me that you’re here. You are the best.   This podcast is brought to you by Audible. Not a member yet? Postcard Academy listeners can get a FREE audiobook and a 30-day free trial if you sign up via audibletrial.com/postcard   This podcast is also brought to you by World Nomads. Need simple and flexible travel insurance? Get a cost estimate from World Nomads using their handy calculator at postcardacademy.co/insuranceDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to the Postcard Academy. I'm your host, Sarah Micatel, and I would like to thank you so much for being here. At the time of this recording, my friends in the United States are suffering from a polar vortex. It's actually 60 degrees warmer here where I am on the coast of England than it is in Milwaukee where my dear friend Megan lives. So, Megan, I think that means it's time for you to hop on a plane and come visit me, and I will take you to all the little cute pubs I've discovered, and they all have fun. fireplaces and warm food. Or we can run off to Mexico or Thailand where today's guest is based. I'm continuing my conversation with travel writer Nardia Plumridge. This year, I've mentioned before in the show that I am pursuing a more freedom-based life. And as part of that, I'll be

interviewing more people who have location independent careers that let them live and work wherever they want. Even if you don't want to spend half the year globe-trotting, and I don't really want to spend half the year globe trotting either. You still might want to have more control over your life and how you spend your time and to be your own boss. I know that's something that I really want. And so I will continue to interview these inspiring people who are living those values. Nardia has what many of us would call the dream job. And if you listen to last week's episode on Bangkok, you heard about all the cool little backstreet she's been exploring and writing about for publications like Lonely Planet. And in this episode,

Nadia shares how she broke into the travel writing business and offers advice on how you can get your travel writing published. Let's jump back into my conversation with Nadia. So you make a living as a travel writer. Do you remember the first article you got published? Oh gosh, you know what? When I first started out, which was like many years ago, 2002, I actually started writing for entertainment magazines when I lived in London. And actually the first magazine I ever interned on was a health magazine. I remember called His Health.

And so I was writing about wellness. And then I started writing about music and film. And then I got on to travel in 2010 when I left London. And it's always been a huge passion of mine anyway. Because I really just love people and places. And I love sharing their stories and exploring. So when I went freelance, I kind of, I don't know just sidestepping, but I was like, you know what?

I just really want to do more travel. And because I'd worked already in the magazine industry in the UK, I kind of understood the process of pitching and all that kind of stuff. And I had a background and a bit of a portfolio of writing work. So it was a bit of a side step into travel. But what really helped me is I ended up moving to Italy, again, just by complete luck and default. And by my work there in terms of what I was doing, I just started getting some pieces. And I remember the first piece I got in Italy was for the Florentine, the local English. speaking newspaper there. And again, it was just going through a pitch process. So having ideas,

finding the editor's contacts and just cold calling them type stuff, which is, I think, one of the best ways to try to get some work. Could you walk us through that a bit more? What advice do you have for aspiring travel writers? Like, what makes a great pitch? Okay, it's a good question. I mean, look, first and foremost, you have to just do something that ideally is a little bit new and fresh because so much has been published already. So if you're saying, I don't know, like I say with Italy, oh, let's do an article on the Cinque Terre or something. You know there's a million articles that have been done already.

But if you can see a completely different angle, something that's a bit fresh, even about the Chinquatera or some, you know, new location, that's what will be more interesting, obviously for a reader. So I guess first and foremost for me, I always think, well, what would I want to read? You know, like, because I do love reading those sort of pieces in terms of that's how I spend my spare time. And then it's all about exploring too. You have to just be out and about and find the story because that's part of the role of being a writer or a journalist. So in the work I do for Lonely Planet in Bangkok, one of my tasks every month is pitching travel news stories and I write at

least one a month. So I have to just have my sort of finger on the poles on the ground, see what's happening, get out and about, speak to people and just see what's new, what's happening. And then from there, I'll come up for them maybe three or four ideas every month that I will send by email to my editor. And they send it on to the team and the team come back and go, I love this or love this. And then I get to write it. Is that enough info or do you want a bit more? Oh, tell us more. So you need to have a hook.

So that's obviously important. Something fresh. What else are editors looking at for these days? Yeah. So apart from the idea, the idea, of course. So you have to have the ideas that are a little bit different. And I think, I mean, sometimes with all these jobs, it can be hard to get into in the beginning

because it's really helpful to have obviously some, you know, clips as they still call it today. Some, you know, articles you could send us to say, here's some work I've done recently and they can see the style of writing. Ideally, if you've been, you know, published by someone reputable, it's going to get your foot in the door because they think, well, if they've invested in you

and published you, must be good. So you have to be like, obviously, I guess a good writer. I know that sounds really obvious, but be confident in your writing to think, I've pitched this idea, but I know I can deliver it. No, I've got a great idea and they might go, great, do it and give you a chance and you just sort of like don't give good copy. Because remember, editors are busy and have jobs. So they're not there to critique your work. They're not there to even like edit your work.

They are there to receive what should be perfect copy ready to go and they might tweak it ever so gently just for maybe for the size of the page or whatever it might be. So you do not want to be, for example, if they were saying this is your deadline. like, you know, the first of February, 500 words, you know, that la la, whatever it might be, the angle that you've pitched and they've agreed on. First, make sure you always meet your deadline. Again, it sounds really obvious, but it's not high school. You would never turn around to an editor and be like, oh, can I have an extension? Because they've got their own deadlines with publications, publishing print and even online.

And it needs to be word perfect. Like, do you not have any, obviously, grammar mistakes or spelling mistakes? And, you know, you always know you've done a good job if you see something that's published and not one single word has been changed. It means you gave good copy. You deliver a good copy. So, yeah, you have to, yeah, I guess have a bit of confidence in what you're doing and just makes sure you deliver everything they need on time.

And, yeah, even if you have to in the beginning, just give it to a friend or two and say, what do you think? And does it sound okay? But I tell you what I did, which was very helpful with me in my early career as interning. So I was living in London, I was studying. And I just got out there and did some internships. So my first year magazine was working for a health mag, which I'm into wellness, but it probably wasn't the magazine that was my dreams, but it was a great opportunity.

I went in once a week and just helped the editors out and started then getting small pieces to write. And then I moved over into a different part of their business during the entertainment magazines. And it was just wonderful to be in the office and be able to be under the wing of some great editors and listen, observe and learn. But I'll be honest, when I first interned, I wasn't doing anything like writing and sexy. I was literally making cups of tea. I was cleaning cupboards, I was going through post, all the basic stuff, but I tried to make myself

indispensable. And slowly, like I remember the news editor at the time asked me to maybe research news stories for him, that he was right, but he didn't have time for the research. And then the reviews editor sort of was nice to me and said, do you want to start doing some album reviews, which are like 30 or 50 word pieces? And it kind of evolved from there. So I started getting some clippings and I started having some experience that when I started pitching, I could say, well, here's some stuff that I have had published, even though I at the time was doing it for free as an intern. That's great advice.

So kind of start small, build your portfolio. Yeah. And be realistic. Like it will take time. And like I said, for me, I was very, I felt really honored to be learning from these amazing people that, you know, knew what they were doing and just to observe it even. So I think be humble as well, you know, just go and learn and, you know, help out where you can. then I end up getting a job because one of the editors liked me.

So in terms of they needed someone part time. So I remember I got like two days a week and just started doing that. And then before you knew it, you hear about other jobs through word of mouth. And then I got a full-time job by the time I graduated. So it kind of worked out quite well. But then when I left London and I ended up in Italy, I was kind of starting fresh again.

Like I didn't have any editor contacts in the travel sector, but I kind of at least knew the process. So it is again about, and this is the thing about being freelance. It's like you can only rely on yourself. So you have to be a slightly motivated person to be like coming up with the ideas, sitting down for however many hours a day to find those emails, pitch out and be ready for a lot of like no replies.

You know, because people are busy and you just might not hear back from a lot of people. But then one or two might say yes and then things can kind of spiral from there. And I'm kind of lucky today because I haven't had to pitch for a long time in terms of over the last few years, people come to be and offer me work, which is great. And then what I'm finding is as you start developing relationships in that sector, and they like your work, they'll come back to you and ask for more. So I get a lot of that these days where editors will come to me and say, hey, we're doing, I don't know, like a beach issue for our May issue.

Is there any beach stories you want to suggest, you know, where you've traveled recently? And you can think of places that you might think will fit their criteria. And that's how one way to get some work. And then the opposite is to say, oh my God, I've just been traveling to X and I found this great place. And do you think it's something you're interested in and you pitch it to them? But yeah, get ready for a lot of rejection. And also not because you're necessarily ideas bad or your writing's bad, but it might just not fit the publication at that time if they've got, you know,

particularly special issues out or maybe something they've done before. Like you and I were talking about Bali before in our conversation. And all of a sudden I'm seeing all these like Bali articles, you know, recently. So part of me is thinking, well, I've seen a lot of those. So those magazines are definitely not going to want to pitch a Bali article, even though I've just been there twice in the last three months. Maybe pitch about a different island that I've been to, for example. Would you say that follow up is important?

Have you, like, not heard from editors and then followed up and gotten something that way? Yeah, I think there's no harm in following up as long as you don't become a stalker. So if you wait a week or two and just touch base, but then if I wasn't to hear it back after that, I'd just let it slide. And then what I would do is think if it's a real publication I'd love to work for, come up with a fresh idea in a couple of months and pitch against just fresh, you know. But you have to understand these people are super busy. And I mean, everyone's super busy.

They're not, you know, Godlike. And so you'll probably find you think if someone's only got X amount of hours in a day, they're going to reply first and foremost to people that they've got to get the work done with, you know, if they've got their own deadlines. And so, I mean, I know, for example, even in my day's working in the magazine in London, we would get lots of interest letters for even internships. And we would only reply to ones of interest because we were so limited with our time. It wasn't that we were being snobby or horrible.

It was just like, okay, we can only write back to the ones we want to communicate with to actually maybe come and work for us. We just physically don't have the time to reply thanks but no thanks to everyone else. So don't take it personally if you don't hear back. And yet always keep trying. I know it's a cliche, but perseverance I think always helps a lot. And then also what I have found, sorry, interesting in the last five to 10 years is now with online and blogging and that kind of stuff, it's actually a really good way to maybe start a portfolio even if you haven't been published in that. You could create a small, you know, website and just put some pieces up there to showcase your style of work, even if you haven't been published.

And then you can at least pitch your new ideas to someone. Hey, I've got this idea on Bali or whatever. And by the way, here's my online portfolio. That's how I would term it. You don't have to say whether you've been published or not. And it's just at least showcasing your style of writing, the quality of your work, your quality of your images, if you also do photography. That's what I would definitely do today if I was starting out. I would start like a little website and just have even like a dozen pieces on there just to showcase the breadth of my style and ideas.

Yeah, I mean, marketing and branding has changed so much since you started. Oh my gosh, so much. Do you feel like you need to be active on social media for your type of work? Yeah. I think you do. I mean, look, I don't think it's the be all end or like ultimately editors just want a good writer with good ideas, but it doesn't hurt to have a social media presence because what I have seen a shift in is I have had some work in the last couple of years where someone's come to me

and said, we'd love you to write a piece about whatever, but we'd also like you to share it on your social media platforms like Instagram and Twitter and whatever. And so they've obviously looked and seen, oh, she's got an okay following. and that's going to hopefully give us a bit more breadth and, you know, to new people. So it definitely helps and I would totally recommend it to anyone wanting to start out or, you know, reshaping their career to definitely get on social and, you know, and start trying to do that for sure. Just with beautiful, authentic pieces. I don't think it's a be a end all.

And I think you need like tens of thousands of followers to get writing work. But if you can do good writing work and you also have some followers, it's not, it's not going to be a hindrance. Put it that way. So you have a book coming out soon. I do. I have a book coming out on Italy, yeah, my Italian days. Which actually came out of a website and creating my own little platform, which is interesting how the world's evolved in the last bunch of years. So your publisher discovered you through lost in Florence.

That.it. Yeah, dot IT, exactly. Yeah. So I started Lost in Florence in 2014 when I was living. there and I just felt personally that there was no one or nothing I could find that showcased what I call the boutique and unique little offerings of the city and I'm a huge fan of artisan culture in terms of, you know, handicrafts, that kind of thing. And Florence is one of the best cities in the world to really keep celebrating that kind of craft. And so I did it out of passion.

That's the thing too I should stress. Like I never did it with a bigger goal. Like there wasn't like if I do this, I'm going to get like A to Z. I just went, I'm just going to do it because I really want to share these stories. And it was such a beautiful way for me to also explore the city. It opened up the city for me by meeting local artisans and just telling them what I was doing and they were all for it. So I'd come and interview them. And I found some local photographers to collaborate with because I'm a huge collaborator

and like to just share the experience. And we just had a lot of fun and I launched it. And it just somehow, I don't know, organically people seem to find it and pick up on it. And so through that, actually, I started getting a lot of first invitations to wonderful events, which started not only being very social, but open doors to new experiences that I could then go and pitch to magazines or editors about new things happening and have my finger on the pulse of what was kind of trending at the time. And so, yeah, it brought me a lot of work and ultimately a book deal, which is a dream and incredible. And yeah, we just finished it late last

year. We went to the publishers in November and now we're in January 2019 and it comes out in March. So I'm pretty excited to finally see it in print. So yeah, you never know. Dreams come true eventually. They can evolve in their own special way. That is so exciting. I'm just so curious as to how they discovered your site. Were they just searching for? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of interesting because again, you know, even the work I do for Lonely Planet, I mean, they approached me and got in contact. So and all the work I've done in the last bunch of years. I haven't had to actually cold call or pitch out to anyone, even though I'd love to. If anything, I haven't had enough time. I'm always thinking I would love to write for this

magazine or that. So what I found is like, I created this website that seemed to get some traction and maybe possibly through social. You know what? Now I think about it, talk to you. I've never really asked anyone, how did you find me? Like, as in what platform? But it definitely came via creating Lost in Florence and I got a lot of work, obviously around Florence and Tuscany. But then, for example, now that I'm spending time in Asia, I've got a lot of relationships with people I've written about Italy for, and now I'm just pitching Asian ideas. And so even with Lonely Planet, I was doing work for them in Italy. And I just spoke to my editor who's based in London and said, look, I'm going to be spending less time here. And she was like, I mean,

this is without sounding like cocky, she was like, oh, we, you know, we really love you and we get great feedback from my department's on your work, where are you going? And I said, I'll be in Bangkok and she basically said, look, as luck would have it, the person, the correspondent who was there is leaving, would you be interested? And she put me in touch with the editor of Southeast Asia and I just got the job off recommendations. So that worked out brilliantly, you know. So it's amazing how one thing can lead to another. But no, it all came through me creating the website and going from there for sure. That definitely helped. But I never could have foreseen when I set it up. that all that would happen. It wasn't, like I said, it wasn't like I had a big strategy. I just did

it out of passion, passion for believing. And there was a bit of a niche in the market that no one was writing about the artisans of Florence. And that's what I was going to do in my spare time. Yeah, passion is everything. Because this is all so much work. I mean, if you don't love it, you'll go. No, exactly. And maybe that's a good point to think about talking to you. It's like, you have to, and it's cliche, I mean, you have to really do something you're passionate about. And, yeah, If you're going to set up your social media or a website or whatever, you know, you do it because you really, really want to do it and enjoy it, not because you think if I do this, I'll get this many followers and I'll end up getting this other work because there's no guarantee, of course. And things are cyclical. I mean, who knows what's going to happen with social media.

Maybe everyone's going to get bored of it in a couple of years and be shutting down their accounts and going private again. I'm seeing that now. Not to share anything. I went on holiday and you get to see no photos, you know. So who knows. but yeah so I guess going back to one of the original questions about if you want to get to travel writing today and I would and if I was like mentoring someone I would definitely be like yeah it like to create a little portfolio online show the kind of work you can do enjoy it because

it's good process too just to be ideas writing get the pictures because you have to get a lot of pictures these days too which I found has evolved so I don't have to always take the photos I'm not a photographer at all although I'm passionate about photography but even like I did an article a couple of days ago for Lonely Planet. And so, you know, I contact venues, get images from them. That helps a lot because a lot of good venues will have professional pictures of their restaurants or whatnot. But then I am tasked to taking some images for certain things. So just even thinking about all that stuff, about storytelling,

because, you know, an article needs to tell a story and then the images need to support that story. And I have an article out this month in the magazine in Finnair's In Flight Mag or Blue Wings. It's on Bangkok and their coffee and breakfast culture. And that was a really fun article to write. But what was great is they had a budget for a photographer. So I found a local Bangkok photographer and we went to these five cafe venues. And I interviewed the owners and we did a bespoke photo shoot. But we did it together, which is going to be my point of like, well, hold on, what am I going to write about?

We've got to make sure we have pictures that support the story. And so that's how those sort of collaborations work. So I think if you can set up and start, you know, even doing some of your own work just for the passion, you start learning some of those skills just through your own trial and error. That's helpful. So how did you find a local photographer? What's your process when you want to have? Total word of mouth.

There was a couple of things. And again, I guess, I don't think about this much until we talk to someone like you, but you have to be kind of resourceful. And again, I guess use that passion you have to be motivated. So I didn't know anyone there when I moved out,

just my partner, of course. So yeah, photographer, you asked around. I got it actually online as well and Googled. like photography groups and I found on Facebook there was one called the Bangkok photography Bangkok photography group and so I emailed them and became a member and spoke to the guy running it and he did a private message to some of his people saying hey this is who she is and she's looking for some people and I met a few that way because again I had to meet them and see can I work with you and what's your photos like because

the photographer as you probably know I mean the styles can be very very different for what you might need and the publications you're working for and this article was for fin air So it's got a very Nordic styling. So it's got a certain, you know, kind of way with light and that kind of thing. But I ended up finding Stephen, who's wonderful, we'd become friends. And I'd work with them in a flash tomorrow through one of the coffee shops, actually, I was writing about, which is set up in a homeware store. It's really, really cool.

It's called Luca. It's one of my favorite places in Bangkok to recommend. And it's like a three, four story kind of like contemporary building. And there's a little photography studio up the top. And that's Stephen's studio. So when I was there one day, I just went up and knocked on the door. And there were these two girls there and I just asked about it and they gave me his details. And I just contact him like out of the blue, you know, something like cold called him, so to speak, saying, this is who I am.

And I've been commissioned to write this article and I'm looking for a photographer to take the picks. And would you like to meet for a coffee? And so we did. And I saw his work and we got along great and he got the job. So then I had to obviously pitch him, so to speak, to my editors in Finland and be like, this is the guy. I think it would be perfect. And he obviously had a portfolio being a professional online. So they loved his work and gave him the job.

And then we did it. And that's what's quite nice now. Because for example, in the future, as I mentioned, I'd work with him again in a flash. So if you can start building up a little repertoire or whatever the term would be of contacts for that kind of work,

that's sort of helpful when you need it. Because a lot of people do, some people have budgets these days to give a professional photographer, although sadly I'm finding a lot of publication. ask if you can supply images. So it's handy if you don't mind taking a picture or two or at least have the kind of personality that's happy to reach out to people like a venue

to say this is who I am. And do you have any press pictures we could use for this article? Yeah, that's a good tip to reach out to them. Although I've seen your photography on your site and it's beautiful. Thank you. No, I do love photography, but I must stress I'm not, I don't consider myself a profession. I really value the skill set it takes.

And I've been lucky to collaborate with some really wonderful people over the years, which I love because, again, even after all these years of doing work, like I still feel like you can learn from other people so much. So I love being on a photo shoot with a professional and seeing what, like, lenses they're using and the style they might, you know, the way they use light and location. And it's kind of fun. I like that creative process.

I get some incredible tasks every month to go and explore the city and write about it and share. it with the world, I guess, via online and other sort of media. That's been really fun to do. And what I found with Bangkok, it is very much a contemporary city. It's very much evolving. It's like sort of contemporary culture. And there's lots of really interesting, quirky and new spaces that are open regularly.

So if you're into that kind of thing, as well as seeing some temples, there's actually quite some interesting places to, yeah, to see and explore. But what I did find out researching once recently was that it shares a very interesting birthday. I find this interesting, the geeky person or part of me, the 21st of April. So it shares the same birthday as Rome, the Queen of England, and it also happens to be my birthday, which is obviously very important. I say jokingly. But no, I found that interesting, like, oh, the 21st of April. So that's a quirky little fact that it's good for writing articles. And again, going back to some of the writing tips, it's good when you write stuff to find something a little bit unusual or odd

or just something interesting, especially to open a piece. But one of the things I found the most interesting when I first came here years ago was how they have Buddha time. So this is something you might have experienced. Like they actually, how we in a lot of the Western world, worked the Christian calendar. The ties are actually 563 years ahead of us. So you'll often find especially, especially in the north, but even on my email, for example, when I'm in Bangkok,

it has a different year. It's not 2019. It's like 2,562 or something at the moment. So, yeah, it's kind of crazy. That is crazy. I did not really. Yeah. I should go back to my email.

I don't know if it shows up. Yeah, so let's have a look. We've got 2,000, yeah, 2,562. That's what year we are currently in in Thailand. And so what that for me as well is, I find, you know, reminds you that there's a beautiful world out there with lots of different religions and cultures and lifestyles. And it just, yeah, brings it to light quite a bit more. So yeah, there are a couple of facts I find quite interesting.

Yeah, and just be ready to explore backstreet, street, street food, temples and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's a fun city. It's definitely an adventure. I've seen a little preview of Nardia's book and it is beautiful. So definitely be on the look for it this spring. All of Nardia's tips on how to break into travel writing can be found on postcardacademy.com, where you can also download my free guide to finding the best airfare at postcardacademy.co slash airfare.

If you enjoyed this episode, please tell a friend about it. That is the best way to grow the show. That's all for now. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahmicatel.com slash blank no more.