Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - How to Get Italian Citizenship Through Ancestry

Episode Date: July 19, 2019

“How do I apply for Italian citizenship?” That’s the no. 1 question I get from listeners of the Postcard Academy. On the show, I’ve spoken about how I became an Italian citizen through my heritage, and how I applied in Italy. But this was almost 10 years ago and I wanted to refresh my memory on the process so I could share it with you.    On this episode, Italian citizenship expert Audra De Falco breaks down how we can apply for dual citizenship with Italy via jus sanguinis, the ‘right of blood.’ I’ve broken down all the steps at postcardacademy.co    If you’re a regular listener of the Postcard Academy, it would mean the world to me if you could take a moment to rate and/or review the show in Apple Podcasts. This helps other potential listeners know if the show is worth listening to :)   I’m your host, Sarah Mikutel. Did you know I host another show called Podcasting Step by Step? Check it out if you’ve been wanting to start a podcast. Every week, I break down ‘how to podcast’ with a little loving motivation to give you the skills and confidence you need to finally launch that show of your dreams.   Ready to travel? Get your free guide to cheap airfare.   Thank you so much for listening to this show. I know you’re busy and have many listening options, so it means a lot to me that you’re here. You are the best.   This podcast is brought to you by Audible. Not a member yet? Postcard Academy listeners can get a FREE audiobook and a 30-day free trial if you sign up via audibletrial.com/postcard   This podcast is also brought to you by World Nomads. Need simple and flexible travel insurance? Get a cost estimate from World Nomads using their handy calculator at postcardacademy.co/insurance  Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to the Postcardi Academy. I'm your host, Sarah Micatel, and I am beyond excited to share this episode with you today. The number one question that I get from listeners is, how did you become an Italian citizen and tell me everything you did step by step. Well, today, my friend, I am breaking down how to become an Italian citizen through ancestry. I am interviewing Audra DeFalco, the founder of the company, get Italian citizenship. And it's thanks to Audra that I became an Italian citizen the way that I did. I was originally going to apply through the Italian consulate in New York. This was back when I lived in New York City. And Audra was translating my family's documents and she gave me this crazy idea to move to Italy and apply over there. And so I did. And that was nine years ago. And I have been living in Europe ever since. I got my citizenship, within a few months. And so Audra really completely changed my life, and I hope that this episode can change yours. We dive deep into the nitty-gritty of how to apply for Italian citizenship in Italy, and also at your local consulate in your home country, if you don't feel adventurous enough to pack up and move to a new country right away. Head on over to postcardacademy.co for show notes. This episode is sponsored by me and my other podcast. If you've ever dreamed about having your own show to share your ideas, connect with your community, or help build your brand or

business, check out the podcast podcasting step by step. Every week, I will coach you on everything you need to know to become a world-class podcaster. Now into my conversation with Audra. Welcome, Audra. Thank you so much for. joining me today. Thank you for having me. I'm very glad to be here. So you are an American who later became an Italian citizen and now you help other people become Italian citizens. So what's your Italian heritage? Sure. So my family comes from Sicily and I've always been really keenly aware of that, especially because I grew up with my Sicilian grandparents across the street from me. So it's actually funny because when I was younger, there were a lot of words that I only knew in Sicilian, mostly relating to food, like words of the home.

So like I didn't know how to say artichoke until I was 12 in English, but I always sort of knew in the back of my mind that we had Sicilian heritage. So it was always there for me growing up. And that's basically what has colored my life experiences for sure. Yeah. So I met you because you were translating some documents for me. Italian. So did you grow up speaking Italian and Sicilian? And how did you learn that? Yeah. So I grew up learning English, obviously. But also since my grandparents were so close and they spoke Sicilian, I grew up learning Sicilian as well. I actually didn't learn standard Italian until I was about 10.

I was that weird kid who would read books for fun. So I don't know how I found out, but I figured out that Sicilian and Italian are not the same thing. And so I was like, well, you know, I'll just learned standard Italian. So I started doing that at a very young age. So I pretty much spoke in Italian almost all of my life. That is fascinating. So you taught yourself Italian when you were 10. I did. I started learning it from a book. I did. I really did. Truly, it sounds so silly, but I did. I started learning from a book. And then I went to classes. And it's funny because I was like 11 or 12. And the rest of the class, they were pretty much all retirees. So you have like a row of 70 year olds and then you have me and I'm 11. It was great, so it really helped me. I love that. So how did you first discover that you were

eligible for Italian citizenship? Yeah, it was actually through my translation work, believe it or not. I was in high school, and by that point, I was already taking on a few clients as a translator, because usually these documents are formulaic, so there's a really only one way to say birth certificate or death certificate, so it's not that difficult to do if you speak Italian. And one of my clients was getting his vital records translated and he mentioned to me it was for Italian dual citizenship. And I was like, what? What is that? So I started finding out everything that I could about Italian citizenship and then I figured out that I was eligible to. And I sort of made it my business to learn everything I could about it. I love this. This is such a beautiful niche and I think you're doing

such important work. So tell me more about your business. So it's called get Italian citizenship. Is it primarily people coming to you to become citizens through their ancestry? Yes, that is correct. So I would say about 95% of my clients are Italian citizenship by ancestry. And the rest are really people who are married to an Italian citizen. But yeah, it's mostly heritage citizenship. And I would say the bulk of my clients come from the United States or Canada. So what are the top reasons that they give you for why they're interested in becoming a dual citizen with Italy?

First of all, you get unrestricted access to the European Union. So you can live, work, and study in the European Union without ever needing a visa, which is incredibly useful. It's also good for employment because your employer doesn't need to give you a sponsorship. You don't need any of that red tape, so it's easier for them to hire you. Another thing you can do is you can avail yourself of really good health care at, you know, really rock bottom prices compared to the United States. And I have a personal story about that because when my mom was visiting me in Italy, she actually broke her wrist. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

And her health care was basically she paid like peanuts for her health care. And it was excellent. Continuing on that theme, also affordable education. So if you have college-aged children or if you want to go to college, you can go to college in Europe and pay the local rate, which is often a lot cheaper than the rate that they would pay if you were just a single citizenship American. It is easier to purchase property in Italy. It's easier to just obviously live and work in Italy. When you're abroad, you can actually get protection from two countries, so the United States and Italy. And finally, I think a really important thing to point out is that Italy does not tax its citizens abroad.

unlike the United States. So if you're an American living in Italy, you still have to file a U.S. tax return. But conversely, if you are an Italian living in the United States, you don't have to file an Italian tax return. So many reasons. For sure. So who is eligible for Italian citizenship through the right of blood? Millions of people in the United States. If you are Italian American, it's likely that you qualify. It's not a given, but it's likely. Essentially, you have to remember three key things. The first one is your ancestor must have been alive anywhere in the world and not yet a citizen of another country by March 17, 1861. The second thing you have to remember is whether or not your ancestor naturalized at any time and the date of naturalization. If they naturalized after July 1st, 1912, or they didn't naturalize at all,

you should be eligible. And the third thing is that if you have direct female, ancestors, her child must have been born after January 1st, 1948. Until that date, Italy did not allow women to pass on citizenship. I know, so unfair. I heard that people are starting to contest this in court because it is a sexist rule, right? It is. Yeah, it is. Actually, since 2009, it's been sort of, there's a precedent for this. So thousands of people had successfully challenged this. In 2009, the Italian Supreme Court decided that the rule was discriminatory and that descendants of women who had their children born before January 1st, 1948 were eligible for Italian citizenship, but unfortunately the Ministry of the Interior and the Italian consulates have not followed suit,

so they don't allow you to file your application as normal. So you can qualify, you just have to hire an Italian law firm to represent you in Rome, but it's absolutely doable. Okay, that's good. Let's talk a little bit more about some of those dates. So you mentioned 1861 and 1912. What was going on in Italy at that time? So before March 17th, 1861, Italy was basically governed by a bunch of different city-states. It was all cut up into chunks. And the country that we know of Italy today actually did not exist.

It only came into existence on that date. So before that date, there was no such thing as Italian citizenship. And after that date, people automatically gained Italian citizenship. There are some exceptions to this rule. like for example, Trentino Alto Adj, that region today was not a part of Italy, even upon unification. It was part of Austria. The good thing is that most Italian Americans have heritage from the south, and there is no question that this area became part of Italy in 1861. But if you do have heritage in the north, especially in Trentino and Veneto and Trieste, and those areas which were not always a part of Italy, it's best to contact an expert to get a second opinion. An expert like Audra. Yeah, sure. So, gosh, it's so fascinating to me because we always, I think, you know, we think the world is now how it always was.

But really, the borders were in flux throughout history. And it always makes me chuckle when I think about America being an older country than Italy. I mean, obviously they were the Romans and everything in Italy. but it didn't become unified until 1861, as you say. Correct. And then 1912? July 1st, 1912 is a big date when it comes to Italian citizenship because that's the date that our modern interpretation of Italian citizenship law came into effect.

There's a big law. It's law number 555 of 1912, July 1st, 1912. And basically that law sets forth all of the steps and processes and rules that we use today when it comes to the Italian dual citizenship process. So if your ancestor naturalized before this law was able to come into effect, unfortunately, it's sort of like a cutoff and the law is not applied retroactively. And then the final rule, and I think you touched on this, is about... 19848.

1948 and then also when the relative naturalized. Yes. So if your ancestor naturalized before July 1, 1912, that means he lost his Italian. and he could not have passed it on to children, even if the children were born before the naturalization occurred, which would normally make you eligible. Yeah. So since this law is not retroactive and unfortunately does not apply to people who naturalized before that date and the line is effectively cut off, even if going by the rules you normally would qualify because his child was born before the naturalization. It's also arbitrary. I feel so lucky that I fell within these rules

because so it for me it was my great-grandparents who came over from Sicily and they didn't naturalize until after my grandfather was born and like all of their children were born. However, I was flatmates for a while with this guy and his mother was Italian but naturalized before he was born. And so it was his mom, but he was ineligible for Italian citizenship. Yeah, but you could go back to great-grandparents. Yeah, well, and you can go back forever, right? I think there's no cutoff point. Exactly. There is no cutoff point. As long as you meet the central criteria, meaning like the 1861 date and the 1912 date and the 1948 date, if you have women in your line, you can go back as many generations as you need. And that's a common misconception. I constantly get this question. And I constantly see people giving this erroneous information that you can only go back to grandparents or great grandparents. Not true. I think Hungary is similar. But Italy is one of the only countries in the world that allows this. So we're really lucky on this because Italy does not give any sort of restrictions in terms of generations, and which is good because a lot of Italian Americans by now are a second or third or sometimes even fourth generation. So it's really favorable that Italy's laws are like this. Yeah. And I was mistaken for many years because I did think it had to be your parents or your grandparents. And then I just randomly stumbled upon some website telling me I could go back and that's how my.

whole journey begin. But so let's say that we qualify for Italian citizenship through ancestry. What are the steps that we need to take? And I want to do like we're playing in the U.S. and then also if we travel over to Italy and to play there. But you and I both originally started to apply for dual citizenship through the New York consulate. So bring me back to like when you were first applying. Like what were the steps that you had to go through to try to get that rolling? Okay, so if I recall correctly, I think it was over 10 years ago. So the rules have definitely changed since then. There's been a lot more interest now. I think I read somewhere that the consulates all do like 2,500 applications a month. So it's significant now. But back then, you could essentially almost show up when you wanted to. And I think they had just stopped allowing you to mail in your documents for citizenship too. And they had just also stopped translating your documents for you. as well. But essentially, I made my appointment. And back then, if I remember correctly, you had to call. It was a pay line. And you had to pay to make an appointment. And I showed up with my documents in hand.

And I was ready to go. I translated everything. I was so excited. And my excitement completely deflated in the matter of like over the course of five minutes. Because the woman who was taking my application sifted through everything and she saw that there was a discrepancy of one letter in my last name. So my last name is D-E-F-A-L-C-O today, but my grandfather's last name was D-I-F-A-L-C-O, just because the way you pronounce it in Italian sounds like the way it's spelled in English. And she basically threw my application back at me, told me that I couldn't apply because of the one-letter discrepancy. And I left completely deflated. I was a teenager at the time. Oh, wow.

Yeah, I was like, I think I was like 18. I was really young. And I was like, wow, this stinks. This is horrible. And I knew that I was going to live in Italy anyway because I was working on getting a student visa. So I didn't push my luck. I didn't try again. I just basically took my licks from the woman.

I don't remember her name, but I do remember that it was upstairs in an office, which I don't think the applications are taken like that anymore. I think they're taken out a window, but there weren't as many back then. So I think everyone went into an office with one consular worker. And I was like, you know what? I'm just going to apply in Italy because I'm going to study there anyway. So I ended up, yeah, I ended up going to Katanya first, and I didn't like it just in terms of the city. So I moved to Reggio Emilia, which is where you also lived, which is where our connection comes from. And I went into the office on a lark and I was like, you know, maybe I can apply here. I didn't even know if it was possible, but I spoke Italian. So that was my sort of ace in the sleeve. I knew that I could do it. How did you end up in Reggio? Sure. So I was living in Catania. And I didn't like it. Even though my family is from Sicily, Sicily is sort of like Italy on hard mode.

It's kind of hard to get used to, especially for someone moving to Italy for the first time. So I knew that I still wanted to study. And I was thinking about studying at the University of Bologna. So I did the transfer. And I just couldn't find anything I liked in Bologna. And it was a little bit expensive. And I figured I could just live in Reggio, Amelia. I had some friends there at the time as well.

and I could just commute on the train. So that's what I did. And I'm really happy because I loved Red Joe. I did too. So for anyone who doesn't know, Bologna is like Italy's university town. I think it's actually the first university in the world, right? It is. In Europe, anyway.

Sure. In Europe. And I think like one of the oldest in the world, definitely. Yeah. So huge university city. But I loved Reggio Amelia more as well. And I went to Reggio Amelia because you told me to go to Reggie Amelia or else it never would have been on my radar. But it is just such a charming town with a beautiful historical center.

Lots of industry. You know, Italy has been in crisis for a long time when it comes to jobs and things like that because of the financial crisis. But like they've got Max Mara was founded there and just lots of really cool things going on. Yeah. lots of cool things going on, lots of industry, lots of work, for sure. I love that you just walked into the community and asked if you could apply for citizenship. So did you know what you were doing? Or did you just go through the process? Okay. I didn't really know. No, not really. I was, I think I was 19 by that time. Or I had like just turned 20. I was so young. But young people

have hubris and I just went into the office and I was like can I apply for citizenship here? I'm living here now and the lady was like yeah just get your residency first and then come back and it was literally that easy. I handed in my documents for residency. I filled out forms. They sent the officer to my house known as the Vigile in Italian. I offered him coffee. This took place like maybe like a week after I did that and after he came to my apartment I received word that I was a resident and I I went back to the same office where I applied for residency and I handed my paperwork and there was no discussion about the discrepancy at all. And then roughly two months later I received my citizenship. Yes, the same thing happened to me. He came over to my house, made some coffee. He would have come over

sooner, but my Italian was not as good as yours and I was afraid to talk to people on the phone because my Italian was rubbish. So I just never picked up the phone until one week my friends came over and visited me from the States. And I was expecting a call from like a hotel or like, um, Airbnb or something. So I finally picked up the phone and he was like. And it was the VGLA. He was like, where have you been? I've been trying to call you for like a month. And I was like, oh, okay. But okay. So I really want to break down this process for somebody who might want to do the same. So say I'm like fresh off the airplane and I go to any town we can use Regimealia for sake of ease. What is the first step that I need to do? So do I have to declare I'm in Italy?

Walk me through the steps of what you need to do. So the first thing you need to do is what you correctly point out. You have to declare your presence in Italy in some way. So according to Italian law, this is done in one of two ways. The first way is by the stamp on your passport. If you are coming from outside the Schengen area, let's say a direct flight from the United States to Italy, you get the stamp on your passport, that's considered a declaration of presence. If, however, you have a layover in another Schengen country, for example, Germany, then you'll have the German stamp on your passport and you won't have the Italian one. So what you need to do is within the first eight days, go to the Questura, which is the police station, and file a declarations

the Presenza, and that's a declaration of presence. And you must do that within eight days of arrival, and that essentially enables you to continue on with the next steps. The next step is we've got to set up residency. So what does that look like? Sure. So you can do this in a few ways. The first way is you can rent an apartment from someone and have an officially registered contract with the Agencia of Entrate, which is what Italians would do. They get a rental contract. They register it. The second thing you can do, depending on the town is get a declarations of hospitality. So that can be from a friend or a relative or anybody else who basically is telling the town that you are their guest and they will take care of you during that time.

There's a few other things you can use, like a comodato duos, which is like a free rental contract where you don't pay rent, but essentially it's mainly the rental contract and the declaration of hospitality. You take those documents with you to the Uffiziouin Nagrafe, which is the town where everyone goes, even Italians, to register their residency. And you fill out a couple of forms. You hand them back in, and then the town has up to 45 days to send the officer, known as a vigil to your home, to make sure that you're actually living there. After your residency is confirmed, you need to hand in citizenship documents. So what did they actually require in Italy?

because I remember they needed a lot less stuff than what they were asking for at the consulate in New York. Yes, you are definitely correct. Italy follows a law called Circulari K-1991, which is Italian for circular K-28 of 1991. So anyone out there can Google that

if they read Italian and they want to see it. But essentially, you just need direct blind documents. So you need your ancestors' birth record and marriage record and naturalization record. And then you need the birth and marriage records for all of your intermediate ancestors and then your birth and marriage record as well. All of your documents need to be translated into Italian and they also need to be apostille. And an apostille is a separate certification issued by the Secretary of State of each state. So if you have documents from New Jersey, you'll get the apostille from New Jersey.

And it makes your documents legal for use in Italy. And Italy does require fewer documents. you are correct. Consulates will usually also require divorce records and death records and a few other things, but that's usually not the case for Italy. And so we need the naturalization certificate as well. Yeah, definitely. You need a naturalization certificate. If your ancestor never naturalized, you need proof of non-naturalization, and you get that by contacting various government parties in the United States. So you contact the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service and also the National Archives and Records Administration. And you just run a regular search using their name, their date of birth, place of birth.

And if there's no record, you'll get a letter stating no record found and you can use that for Italy. Unlike the consulates, Italy usually does not require proof of non-naturalization from the counties. But the consulates might require this. Italy doesn't. Okay. And then do we need anything from our ancestors' hometown? Yes, the birth certificate. And if they were married in Italy, you would.

would need their marriage certificate, but you don't need anything else from them. Okay, so hopefully that Sicilian or wherever, Camunay still has these records that are going back like 100 years. Yeah, yeah, that is actually a really good thing to point out because sometimes the town registries have burned, sometimes they're waterlogged, sometimes they can't be found, but there are ways to remedy that. So we've got these citizenship documents now. Which office are we bringing these to?

So you go to residency at the Uffiziouanagraph and then you do your citizenship at the Ufichio di Stato Civil. Some towns will have them in the same office like Reggio Emilia. It's the same location and some towns will have them a separate. It goes on a town-by-town basis, but those are the two main ones you want to look out for. And what is the attestato di non-rinuncia? Okay, so the attestato is what happens after you apply. the Kumune will scan all of your documents and they'll send them via registered email, which is a uniquely Italian invention to the consulates back home. And they're asking the consulates whether you or your intermediate ancestors. So not your Italian ancestor. Everyone who came after them has ever renounced the right to have Italian dual citizenship. And the consulate will look at their own internal records and they'll send back confirmation that neither you nor your ancestors have renounced the right. right to have dual citizenship. And that's the attestato. Okay. And so permissos di sojourno

and attesa of itchita di Chinanza. So that's like kind of our visa to be allowed to stay while we're waiting for our citizenship to come through. Exactly. It only does really make things easy for you if you want to apply there and stay longer than 90 days. You can get this specific special permissso and you need to go to the post office and file a kit. And you'll, you'll, You'll probably have to include the receipt of your citizenship application and a few other things, but you'll get an appointment for your fermeso, and then when it's done, you can pick it up, and that allows you to stay more than 90 days legally. So hopefully all the steps that we mentioned above will take much less than 90 days,

so we can get that permisso kind of soon. Yeah, exactly. It really depends on the town. Sometimes actually don't ask for it, which I don't quite understand, but they're thinking is that you're already a citizen, so you don't really need a bedmesso, you're just waiting for your citizenship to be recognized. But hopefully it does take under 90 days to do everything. It normally does.

The filing of the application is normally easy and the hardest part is the wait. Yeah, it's a good thing to have if you want to go traveling because I got into a bit of a jam because a lot of these border agents don't know what the rules are. And I just had this lady in the UK really tell me off because I had my permiso, but I didn't, you know, have my Italian passport yet. So I flew into England and she was like accusing me of trying to like border up and I stayed in Italy for too long and I'm trying to explain that no, I'm applying for citizenship. And it was a disaster. So anyway. And I had the premise. So I guess it didn't really matter. But still, yeah. Just you might. Yeah, you might find even people in Italy don't know what it is. So it's it's definitely good to have because it for sure keeps you legal. But unfortunately, sometimes there are people that don't know about this and something like that can. happen, which is so horrible. I'm so sorry. Yeah, just follow the rules and hopefully you'll be okay. Yeah. If you get the good mess out, you're fine. You'll be okay. So your clients, if they choose to go this route, how long does it usually take them? So I definitely recommend staying at least

45 days for the residency and then give themselves a buffer of two or three more months to file the application, to get settled in Italy, to make sure that you're integrated with the community. Because, you know, if you're going there for a residence, you really want to show that you're a resident of Italy. Yeah. So I definitely recommend a minimum of 60 days and maximum can be as long as you want to stay. Just like you. I mean, like you can move to Italy and stay there for a while or just like me. That's the exact same thing that we did. We went there, we got their residency, and we stayed. And why wouldn't you want to stay? Italy's wonderful. Of course. Italy is beautiful for sure.

And so people these days, so in my great-grandparents' time, I think in your grandparents' time, they weren't allowed to keep two citizenship. So when they became Americans, they had to renounce their Italian citizenship. But that's no longer the case for either country, right? Correct. If an Italian person naturalized as a citizen of another country before August 15th, 1992, they automatically lost their citizenship. That's no longer the case. So if you have an Italian resident. who is becoming American today, they'll be able to keep both citizenships. That is great. And so for, Audra, for the people who are not quite as adventurous as us and don't want to move to Italy to get their passport, can we go back and walk through the process of what

they would need to do for their consulate? Sure. The first thing I recommend all my clients to is make an appointment with a consulate. It used to not be this way, but unfortunately the wait times are getting a lot longer, and they vary wildly as well. So some consulates have six-month wait times, while others have wait times of 10 years, like Los Angeles. Ten years? Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. It's become really popular. And unfortunately, Americans are just starting to deal with us now, but people in Argentina and Brazil have been waiting for 10 years, like for 10 years now. So it's, yeah, it's, it's really variable depending on where you go. So the next thing I would recommend you do is you check the consulate's website. Sometimes it's obscure, sometimes it's hard to follow, but they usually

will have a list of requirements because they do vary consulate by consulate, which is like Italian bureaucracy 101. So yeah, that's your first introduction to Italian bureaucracy. The next thing you have to do is start gathering your documents. And I always recommend working back from your last Italian ancestor because the information you gain on those first documents will allow you to work your way back to you, much easier than going you back to your Italian ancestor. So let's say it's my great grandfather that I'm going through. I would need all of his birth, death, marriage certificate and then down the line. So my mother. Exactly. And then me. Exactly. And then me. And, And if you're applying at a consulate, you have to be careful. And again, make sure you check their

requirements because some consulates require non-direct line documents as well. So if you're going through, let's say your paternal grandfather, they would require his birth certificate, but also his spouse's birth certificate. And they would require your fathers and also your mothers, even though that those people are not in the direct line. So when in doubt, check their website for sure. Yes. And then, as you had mentioned before, all of these documents need to be translated into Italian and the names all have to match. And if they don't, you have to go to court and get them changed, right? Yes. Yes. That too varies with the consulates and it also varies in terms of the discrepancies. If your ancestor, for example, was named Giuseppe in Italy and he became

Joseph in the United States, it's likely that the consulate will let that slide. But if he decided to name himself Frank in the United States, you might need a court order to rectify that. And so then what's the next process after that? Sure. So once you have all of your documents collected, translated at Bastille, do you have no discrepancies that you think might jeopardize your case, you have to go to your consular appointment. You don't have to speak Italian. Some of them are really informal. It really depends on who you get. But you do have to show that you are a resident of the jurisdiction. So you'll probably have to show your American passport, your driver's license, and a bill, a utility bill showing that you're

in their jurisdiction. And I just want to touch on one thing, Audra, just to clarify. So when you say a member of their jurisdiction, that means if you live in L.A., but you don't want to wait 10 years, you can't apply in, say, Boston, if that's a much shorter wait time. You have to apply, you know, in your local jurisdiction, as you said. Exactly. There are 10 Italian consulates in the United States. So you have to go to the one which has jurisdiction over your primary residence. So if you get stuck in a consulate with a long wait, it's exactly right. You can't skip the line and go to another consulate. So then they will look over your documents with you.

And if everything goes well, they'll give you a file number. And you'll have to make payment. The payment for an application is 300 euros or the equivalent US dollar amount. And they usually have their fee schedule posted on their website as well. So what happens if they reject you for like a misspelling of a name? You go and get it corrected in court. Do you have to wait like another 10 years to get back in there? So what they normally do is they give you a paper listing all of the things that you need to correct. And they usually give you a time frame in which you can come back and you do get to skip the line. It's usually 30 to 60 days. So you scramble around like a chicken without a head. trying to get everything done, but they do allow you to come back without having to wait for another appointment. And so I guess you've got to budget for your application, but then also for

translations if you need those done. And when you're in Italy, I think it's cheaper. I mean, you have to pay to get like your permiso, your like visa to stay. But is it cheaper? It is and it isn't in the sense that there's no application fee if you apply in Italy. So there's no 300. euro fee. But obviously you do have to pay for lodging. You have to pay for your travel to Italy. True. I can't really add up then. It's an added expense, but you don't have to pay for the fee. And by the way, you definitely don't have to use a service provider to apply in Italy, which kind of seems counterproductive because I am a service provider, but you feel plucky enough. And if you speak Italian and you feel like you want to do it on your own, you absolutely can. And you do not have to apply

in the town where your ancestors are from either. You can apply anywhere. And if you do want handholding, then you should definitely talk to Audra. I'm still like people, because I talk about like my story and how I became an Italian citizen and how I'm able to like live and work in Europe and how I love it. And you have just like you've literally changed my life, Audra, by like, because I met you because I was going to apply through the New York consulate and you were translating my documents for me. and you said, you know what, it would be easier for you if you just moved to Italy and got your citizenship there. And I didn't really even know you, but I was like, all right, this girl seems like she knows what she's doing. And then I didn't. So yeah, yeah, so I'm just so thankful for you

for having met you. And yeah, of course. And I can't believe it. It was so long ago. It was like eight, nine years ago. It seems like yesterday, honestly. Yeah, yeah. So when I got to Reggio, You were living there and then you, I think, went back to the states. So we overlapped only a little bit. Are you living part-time in Italy again? I do. I do. So I run my business out of both Italy and the United States.

I spend about six months each year in both New York and in Turin, which I also love. Oh, my gosh. Yes, I love Turin so much. That's one of my favorite cities in Italy. It's great. It's really underrated. So this is the dream. So this is like going back to what you said about the reasons to have dual citizenship. You can split your life and live half in the States, half in Italy, you know, bounce around. That's what I'm enjoying doing. Yeah, absolutely. It's really great. It's fantastic knowing that you can do that. You can just fall back on it if you want to. It's good to have even if you just live in the United States permanently as well. I mean, it's a second passport. It's great. Yes, yes. It's always good to have. options, I think. Well, Audra, is there anything else that you want to say about citizenship or

Italy or anything? Sure, absolutely. I think that if anyone feels that they may qualify, they should absolutely reach out to me even for a free consultation and we can walk through and see if you qualify. And if you do, you should absolutely avail yourself of this opportunity. It's a minimum investment for something that will pay off in dividends. You can pass on your citizenship to your children. You can use it for so many things. And it's a really great thing to have. And I would recommend that everyone who qualifies absolutely take this opportunity because we don't know with how popular this is if Italy will ever stop this. So it's better to do this now and have it than wonder in the future if you could have done it. Yeah. And it's just nice, I think, to have that

connection to your family before I became a citizen. Like I went back to Sicily to where my great-grandparents came from and, you know, spent time with distant relatives. And it was a really magical experience to be back there. It's beautiful. It's a tangible thing that you can hold in your hands, which honors your heritage. And I'm really big on that. Like, I'm super proud of my heritage. I'm super proud of my grandparents coming to this country and working hard. And it's just a way to bring your family history full circle. And you can hold it in your hands. It's really great. I agree. So, Audra, What is your website and what's the best way to connect with you? You can visit me at get Italian citizenship.com, which is easy to remember. Or you can email me directly. It's Audra at get Italian citizenship.com. And you spell my name, A-U-D-R-A.

You can contact me any time. I love to talk to people and give them tips about dual citizenship. Even if they don't end up using my services, I'm more than happy to go through qualification with them and figure out if they have a viable path to citizenship. Well, thank you so much, Audra. It has been lovely catching up with you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

It's really nice to catch up with you. And I'm so happy that you were able to get your citizenship and you're making use of it. It makes me really happy, truly. Thank you. Bye, Audra. Bye. There you have it. All the steps that you need to follow to get Italian citizenship.

If you are fortunate enough to qualify through your hair and I will also share all of this information at postcardacademy.co. I can't believe that I have been an Italian citizen for almost nine years now. The whole process was such a blur to me, so I'm so thankful that Audra came on the show today to talk us through that process. I don't think that you should wait 10 years to become an Italian citizen. I think you should fly over there, hang out for a few months, the amazing. food, meet the locals, make friends, and just change your life. Maybe you'll end up staying forever. Becoming an Italian citizen was the best decision that I ever made. And if you can do it,

I really think that you should do it. That's all for now. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarah micotel.com slash blank no more.