Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - How to Stay in Europe for More Than 90 Days Without a Visa: Navigating the Schengen Area

Episode Date: June 17, 2018

Americans, Canadians, Australians, and citizens from quite a few other countries can legally stay in Europe as long as they want without needing a visa. How? By jumping in and out of the Schengen zone, which is made up of 26 member countries. In this episode, we dive deep into how to calculate your days so you’re never breaking any rules or are overstaying your 90 out of 180 continuous days anywhere. You’ll also find a break down of this info on postcardacademy.co  This isn’t legal advice, so please contact the embassy of where you want to go if you have specific questions.   Top take-aways from this episode:  Your passport should be valid for at least 6 months from when you begin traveling.  Always make sure immigration officials stamp your passport when you go in and out of the Schengen area.  At the borders, you could be questioned about your travel plans, and border agents have the power to limit your time in a particular country based on their whims. So be nice to them and you might want to have proof of sufficient funds on you, like bank statements, cash, and credit cards. Don’t overstay 90 days in a continuous 180 day period in the Schengen Zone. You could be fined, deported, and banned from re-entering a country you love.  Oh, and one more thing, if you’re border-surfing without a visa like Lannie talks about in this episode, you’re not eligible to apply for work. You’re most likely either earning a living remotely, living off your savings, or retired.    I’m your host, Sarah Mikutel. If you so desire, you can sign up for my newsletter here. And thank you so much for listening to this show. I know you’re busy and have many listening options, so it means a lot to me that you’re here. You are the best.   This podcast is brought to you by Audible. Not a member yet? Postcard Academy listeners can get a FREE audiobook and a 30-day free trial at audibletrial.com/postcard Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to the Postcard Academy. I'm your host, Sarah Micatel, and I want to thank you so much for listening and for subscribing to this travel show. I really appreciate this time with you, and I hope you're having an amazing week. Today, I am speaking with Lanny Sue, an American who is currently living in Europe full time without a visa because she is navigating the Schengen Zone, which is made up of 26 European countries. Americans and people from quite a few other countries can stand. spend 90 out of every 180 continuous days in Schengen countries, and then cross in and out of the Schengen area to stay in Europe legally for as long as you want without needing a visa. Calculating timelines to make sure you don't overstay your welcome anywhere is actually quite complicated. Producing this episode was a real struggle. It took me hours and hours and hours because I had to wrap my mind around mathematics and spreadsheets, two of my least favorite things. However, I did it for you because I love you. And by the end of this episode, if you're a non-European wanting to live in or travel through Europe long term, you will know how to do it. Of course, this is not legal advice. I am not a lawyer.

So if you have any questions, you should contact your local consulate or the embassy of the country you'll enter first when you go to Europe. Related to border crossings, recently a few of you have asked me, Sarah, what the heck is going on in Italy? Do they even have a government? Are they leaving the EU? I will touch on that, and how the migration crisis is actually threatening the Schengen zone altogether. But first, this podcast is brought to you by Audible. Not a member yet. Postcard Academy listeners can get a free audiobook and a 30-day free trial at audibletrial.com slash postcard. Now into my conversation with Lanny.

Well, welcome Lainey. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Hello, thank you. So we are going to be chatting about Schengen laws, how they apply to U.S. citizens, what it means for travelers. But first, I would love to hear more about you. So you are an American traveling around Europe. But where did you grow up? So I grew up in Oklahoma, but I've lived kind of all over, primarily in Chicago and bits of Southeast Asia.

So just recently, I recently, as of last year, I moved back to the U.S. U.S. from Singapore. So you were working there for a few years, I think, right? Yes. Yeah. What was your first trip abroad? Ooh, probably to Taiwan when I was a kid, but I don't know if that really counts because we had gone so many times over the summer as I was growing up. Is that where your family is from? Yeah, that's where my parents immigrated from. What about your first solo trip, I guess, or not just solo, but adult trip without your parents? The first adult trip without my parents was me, my sister, and my best friend, we went to Greece for two weeks, and it was fantastic.

It was 11 years ago at this point. So after Singapore, you went home for a little bit, but then you decided you wanted to try to live somewhere in Europe. What made you start thinking about that? Well, I think the European way of life is more suited to me. They're very good about their work-life balance. For people who have traveled in Europe, they know that most things are not open on Sundays. I love the cafe culture. I love the buildings and the architecture and everything, really.

Yes, I completely identify with all of that, which is why I've been here for years and years. And people respect each other's vacations and I think tend to be more happy when people go on vacation, as I remember when I lived in the States, sometimes it was like a competition to not go on vacation or to come in when you're sick. And I remember also in New York when we were in the office and there was like some sort of, you know, holiday in London or something. And we'd be like, oh, those guys, they're never at work. Yeah, they're not working.

The whole month of August. But now, of course, I know, you know, people, once they recharge, are so much more productive. Yeah. And I think most Americans actually don't take. the number of vacation days allotted to them, which I think is quite sad. At least 50% I think. I think even more than that, they said last year. So come on, Americans, we want you to go on vacation. Come visit us. Come visit us over here in Europe. Go see the world. So you are getting a master's in Vienna, I believe. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Yeah. So it's actually a very unique

program one of a kind. It's a master's in anti-corruption studies, and it's mostly done online, so I do a lot of research and writing remotely. But once a quarter, I have to go into Vienna for coursework for two weeks at a time. So I've been traveling back and forth from Vienna in the U.S. since November, and I think around January, I decided I should just travel more or less full-time not really to cut down on the commute, but sort of just looking for an excuse just to be out there. Yeah, well, especially at this time of year, like summer is just coming alive,

and everyone's out walking around, enjoying the sun, and all these different, like, festivals are happening, you know, starting to happen. So it's just a great time to be over here. But of course, with Americans, it's not easy. So I'm very lucky that I have dual citizenship. So I'm allowed to stay. And I didn't really know that much about the Schengen rules until we started chatting today. Because we are both in Ljubljana, Slovenia.

So it was awesome hanging out earlier, and I cannot wait to go and get some to start later with you. Yes. But you were telling me a bit more about the Schengen laws. So right before we started chatting right now, I just looked up some of the rules. So today there's 26 countries in the Schengen area, which so that. That means that 400 million Europeans from member countries can travel to other member countries without passports. And 22 of these are EU countries, and then the other four are Iceland, Norway, Switzerland,

and Liechtenstein. Yep. And the UK and Ireland are not part of this. And I actually got tripped up by this years ago and not really understanding why, but so I was living in Italy and traveling around to like Spain and some other countries, but I didn't have my Italian passport at that point. And then I went over to England to visit a friend of mine. And I didn't realize I was going to have to go through border control in the UK because I didn't have that before. And so, and it wasn't like a huge deal, but the border agent made it a really big, she just

made it such a crazy bad experience that I was not expecting. Like she really was really was grilling me hard and saying, you know, what are you doing here? She accused me of coming for benefits. She went through like my wallet and all of my possessions and was like, why don't you have your return plan ticket out of here? Oh my gosh. And I said, well, don't I need to have a 24 hour window before I can get that ticket? And she was like, nope, on EasyJet or whatever airline I flew on. She was like, you can print it way in advance. And I didn't know that. you know. So anyway, I was like shaking in my boots because she was just like really chewing me out. And I was like, oh my God, nobody even knows where I am.

Is she like, what if I ended up in jail? And oh, God. And so this was quite a few years ago. And so couch surfing was still like a bigger thing back then. And so I didn't have the name of a hotel or anything written down. Oh, yeah. I was just go couch surfing with this random guy. And she was like, you're, doing what? Oh my gosh. Couch surfing. You're going to go and stay at this strange man's house.

And then she called him, and he didn't know me either. So he's getting a call from a border agent. And a few other bad things happened. I can't even remember. I have blocked it up my mind, I guess, but I was literally shaking that I was just going to disappear. And, no, I mean, that sounds dramatic now as England, but I don't know. I was so nervous.

And, like, they were really giving this other American next to me a hard time. two who was there for a business meeting and he actually had paperwork and stuff. And he was such a nice guy and they were like, and he was like, I'm going to be late for my meeting. Can you just let me know like how much longer this will take? But he said it really nice. And the guy was like, oh, we're just getting started. So people say that the border control at America is tough. It's stuff everywhere. And I just, you know, it's sad that that's the entry point that people go to countries. So everyone, ignore everything that happened at the border control wherever you are, because it gets better. It does. Once you get through, it's like paradise on the other side.

Yeah. So there are four other EU states that aren't part of Schengen, and that's Bulgaria, Cyprus, Romania, and Croatia. And then there are countries that are neither EU nor Schengen. So that's Albania, Bosnia, Belarus, Macedonia, Moldova, Serbia, Montenegro, Ukraine, and Russia. Wow. Good for you. That was very impressive. Just putting all the info out there. So, but as a European, I guess myself, I can just float around and not really have to worry about all of this stuff. But you actually have to plan things out because I don't think that you're on a visa.

Is that correct? No. No, I'm not on a visa. And American citizens technically can be in the Schengen zone for 90 days every 180 days. But it's not like six months at a time the first six months of the year or the last six months of the year. It's any continuous 180 days. So since I've been traveling since the end of January, I've basically kept a spreadsheet with every day and every place that I am. So I can meticulously track whether or not I'm going to exceed that 90 days.

And so you have to think of it as like a moving timeline. and basically you have this block of 180 days. So any time the timeline moves forward, days in the past drop off. Every six months, you can only be here for three months. They don't want you here the entire time. They only want you here at maximum half the time. So we could just double it and say, gosh. But you can't really double it because it's a moving target.

All right. Tell me again this moving term. I get the 90 days. So I get that within 180 days. You can spend 90 at whatever point in a Schengen area. Right. But it's any continuous 180 days. So we're in May right now. Okay. Right now I have spent about 70 days in the Schengen zone. But in June, that moves. Right? So, if I was in 70 days at this six-month point in time, next month, it's not 70 days that I've been here anymore, depending on where I was. It could be 80 days or it could be 60 days. Does that make sense? Okay, I'm going to pause this conversation for a sec, because Lanny is an accountant and I am a wordsperson, and we started talking about too many numbers and moving clocks. So here are the basics about what you need to know to navigate the Schengen zone. I should mention that it's different from the European Union, and they are often confused. There are 50 countries in Europe, and 28 of those, as of June 2018, are part of the European Union.

So what is the European Union? Well, a few episodes ago, I talked briefly about the history of World War II. After this war, which killed an estimated 40 million to 70 million soldiers and civilians, a few European countries decided that a good way to stop killing each other would be to form an economic Alliance. So, in 1958, Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands created the European Economic Community, the EEC, which in 1993 re-branded as the European Union. As I mentioned, today 28 countries in Europe are part of this alliance, and EU member countries practice free trade as part of a single market. This means they can do business across the

EU as easily as if they were a single country. The single market also means free movement of all EU citizens. They can live, work, study, and travel in any other EU country. No visa, total freedom. I have dual citizenship with Italy, and that's what allows me to live and work in London, at least until Brexit ruins everything. The EU, in addition to being an economic alliance, is also a political alliance, dealing with climate change, migration, and other critical world issues. In recent years, migration policy has become hugely contentious and has influenced political elections across Europe. It even threatens to destabilize the EU itself. The UK actually voted to leave the EU over immigration issues, and for non-European listeners, Brexit means British exit, as in exit from the European Union.

All right, so if that is the EU, what is the Schengen zone, or the Schengen area? The Schengen Agreement opened the borders between the countries that signed onto it. Europeans from Schengen member countries can travel to other member countries without passports. The agreement was signed in 1985 in Schengen-Luxembourg, which is where the name comes from, and it went into effect in 1995. The Schengen zone began with just five countries and has expanded over the years. Today, there are 26 countries in the Schengen area, and they are among the most popular countries that tourists visit. Italy, France, Germany, I will include a full list of Schengen countries on postcardacademy.co.

So what does this mean for non-European travelers? What if you're an American who wants to stay in Europe for more than 90 days and you don't want to go through the bother of getting a visa? You can travel in and out of the Schengen zone. So for American citizens and citizens of about 63 other countries, within 180 days, you can be within the Schengen zone for 90 days. So if you think about it as a countdown, down. So you're counting down from 180 days. And within those days, you can go in and out,

but the maximum time that you can be in the Schengen is 90 days. So, you know, you could be in Italy for 30 days. And then you could be in Austria for another 10 days. So you've used up 40 days. Your passport is only stamped when you enter and exit the Schengen. Okay. I figured out something important here about that stupid moving clock Lanny was talking about, every time you enter the Schengen zone and get your passport stamped, the border agent will be evaluating the last 180 days from that moment in time. So looking to see how many days within that 180 days that you've been in the Schengen zone. So he or she will go through your passport and check entry stamps to see that you haven't spent more than 90 days in the Schengen zone within the previous 180 days. So just to reiterate, according to the EU's website, the 180-day reference period is not fixed,

it's a moving window and it is based on the approach of looking backward from the moment of entry into the Schengen zone. It's much easier to understand what I'm talking about if you look at the very low-tech Schengen calendar they have online. So I will link to that to give you a visual. And playing around with the dates on their calculator was actually the only way my brain could compute this concept. So you really just have to know where you are at all times and where you intend to be in the future. And so earlier this year, I was mostly in Scotland and Ireland,

which is non-Shengen EU. So I had a little bit of leeway with those days that I was there because that doesn't count towards my 90 days. So again, you can drive from, say, Berlin to Krakow, like I did a few weeks ago, and not have to go through a border check because they have open internal borders with one another. So that's for internal borders. Imagine the Schengen countries as one big blob with no internal borders, and outlining them, you have external borders.

So an external border would be between a Schengen country and a non-Shangen country. So, you know, when you go from London to Paris, since the UK is EU but non-Shengan, you go through passport control to get to Paris, right? Because Paris is both EU and Schengen. I know this sounds complicated. So let's imagine the easiest scenario. You could spend 90 consecutive days in a Schengen country like Italy and then 90 days outside of Schengen in, say, Croatia.

And then return to Italy when you're 100,000. 80-day cycle begins again. Just to be clear, you could spend those 90 days in any shangan country, splitting your time however you want. Ten days shangin, five days non-shangon, three-day shangin, five days non-shagin, however you want to do it. The important thing to remember is that you can't exceed 90 days in the shangun area in a continuous 180-day period. And those days are counted back at the border each time you re-enter a shangent country. but it is actually quite complicated and to be honest an excel tracking spreadsheet where you literally count the number of days everywhere you are is the only way that I've been able to make sense of

all of this I basically made a calendar and every day I have either S or X Schengen or non Schengen and I use the count function on it just to see how many Schengen days that I have. Day one of your 180 days begins when you get your passport stamped in your first Schengen country, and it's always days, not hours. So imagine your plainlands in Paris, and it's the very beginning of your trip. The border agent stamps your passport at 1159 p.m. This is your day one. So one minute later, at your crossing through immigration at midnight, you are already on day two. This is important to keep track of so you don't miscalculate and get in trouble later for overstaying your 90 days.

If you overstay in the Schengen zone, you won't be able to come back in for another 180 days, so for another six months. So that's why for me, since I've been traveling within and out of Schengen since arguably January, I need to keep track of my days very clearly because I need to make sure I don't hit 91 days. within the Schengen. And I'm kind of skirting that line right now. As mentioned, every time you re-enter the Schengen zone, they will be looking back at the last 180 days from that moment in time, and calculating how many days you've been in Schengen. If you've overstayed, they can find you and deport you, and punishments can vary depending on where you find yourself.

Lanny mentioned a six-month ban, but you could be banned for years. Some countries seem to provide, more rigorous border checks than others, but don't take your chances. I know someone who decided to stay in Italy past 90 days. He became an unofficial paid tour guide and he started to do really well, and a jealous rival ratted him out and got him deported, and then he was banned from returning to Italy for quite a long time. And so how long can you stay in a non-changan country without a visa? Generally 90 days each, but double check with the embassy. From February to July, my planned travel, I would have been in non-Shengan countries for 92 days and Schengen countries for 90 days. So if they're looking at the six-month range of February to the end of July, I'm right on the border,

which is why I'm going to Croatia next week. As an aside, some non-European travelers grumble that the growing number of countries signing on to Schenken makes it more difficult to spend. 90 days out of the 180 outside the Schengen area. A common wish expressed on travel boards is for rules to change so travelers can spend six consecutive months within the Schengen zone instead of just 90 days. But there are concerns that the Schengen zone could collapse altogether. This is due to terrorist acts like the Paris attacks in November 2015 and also the refugee and migrant crisis. Germany alone has taken in more than 1.4 million asylum seekers, primarily from Syria. Syria. And there have been heated debates about which countries aren't pulling their weight

when it comes to managing the crisis. Most asylum seekers are coming through Greece and Italy, and in 2015, the EU said that other EU member countries had to take part in relocating the people arriving by boat in the Mediterranean. But some EU countries have resisted this, some have outright refused, and the relocation quotas ended in 2017 anyway. Italy and Greece are required by EU law to process asylum claims of the people entering Europe. through their borders, but they are so overwhelmed that they are just letting them pass through and head up north to countries like Germany so they can claim their asylum there. Last year, nearly 120,000 migrants reached Italy's shores, and they're primarily leaving from

Libya, but this has actually gone down 75% this year. Why? Italy is working with Libya's Coast Guard to send the boats back to Libya. There's a new lawsuit in the European Court of Human Rights, saying that the people being forced back to Libya, most of whom are from sub-Saharan Africa, are facing slavery, torture, and rape once they get back to Libya. Just this week, Italy and Malta refused to let a humanitarian rescue vote dock, and this vote included 120 children, seven pregnant women. Thankfully, Spain's new prime minister stepped up to save those on board. Across Europe, people are electing politicians who are taking a strong stance against immigration,

And as I mentioned before, the UK actually voted to leave the EU altogether, in large part because of fears of immigrants flooding their borders. Right now, Europe seems completely disorganized and incapable of agreeing on how to manage this crisis. These refugees are fleeing for their lives. They are arriving with nothing because human traffickers have stolen everything from them. Thousands are drowning as they make their way by sea. Others who are arriving are living in squalid camps. Many are desperate to work, but they have to wait for asylum claims to be approved before they can get their working papers. Not to mention the trauma and violence they endured on their way to Europe.

These people are suffering tremendously. At the same time, European towns are feeling overwhelmed by the new arrivals, and they are worried that they don't share the same Western values, the same values that they agreed upon after the horrors of World War II, including the right to be free from discrimination on the basis of sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age, or sexual orientation. Cologne, Germany, made national news two years ago, after more than 600 women were sexually assaulted,

primarily by organized groups of foreign men on New Year's Eve. Another 400 women were assaulted in Hamburg. Of course, most immigrants are not criminals, but these stories are terrifying and people don't forget them. And as we've seen in recent years, or actually always, stoking fears about immigration is a recipe for political success. So, politicians and parties are taking a strong stance against immigration, and they are winning elections all across Europe and the globe.

This is especially true in Italy, where more than 30% of 25 to 54-year-olds are out of work, and this number is even higher in Sicily, where the migrants are landing. So there is a shortage of work for everyone, and there is the perception by quite a few people that foreigners are getting the handouts while native-born citizens are suffering. And this is a sentiment that echoes in many countries. whether or not it's true. And so bringing this back to Schengen, the agreement says that member countries have the right to temporarily reinstate internal border controls when national security is threatened. And they are doing this. France, Austria, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway,

they have all reintroduced border controls at least until October or November 2018. So, even if you are traveling in the Schengen zone, you should always keep your passport on you. Are you a big planner? Are you mapping out everything ahead of time? Or how are you deciding where to go shankan on shengen? I used to be a really big planner, like planning things very far in advance. And to a certain extent, I kind of do now.

But I don't know. I really don't know why something just clicked in me. And I'm kind of doing things every week or every week. every two weeks. So I don't really think that far ahead into the future. So for example, I might have certain markers in the future. Like I have friends that will be in Milan or friends that I'll meet up with in Innsbruck later in July. But other than that, it's kind of a blank slate. And so right now, the only decision factor for me is non-Shengan countries, which is why I'm going to Croatia next week.

Well, that's a lovely place to be right now. Where in Croatia are you going? I'm starting out in Sucreb, and then, who knows, I'm open to suggestions, and really we'll see. Before we go, can you please tell us where people can find out more about you? Oh, sure. So I have a travel blog. It is Lanny's Food and Travel.com.

that's L-A-N-N-I-E. And I'm also on Instagram, which is my primary form of social media. And so my Instagram name is L-A-N-N-I-E-S-U. And I've been calling you L-A-N-N-N-I-E-S-U. Well, I mean, semantics. It's fine. You know, one of my best friends,

I have been mispronouncing her name for years. I didn't find this out until like a few years ago. And at that point, there was no going back. And I was like, why didn't you tell me that your name was this other thing? And I don't think she wants me to mention her name. And she was like, well, I just thought Americans didn't know how to pronounce it. And I was like, you have a very simple name. Anyway.

Well, it doesn't, I don't take offense to it. And there's really no need to correct anyone. So unless you egregiously mispronounce it, then I'll usually let it slide. Leni Su on Instagram, I will never, ever forget it again. Wonderful. It's been fun chatting with you. You too. Thanks for having me.

Okay, cool. Talk to you later. Or actually, really soon. Bye. Yes. Bye. Okay, some important things to remember for non-Europeans who are eligible to travel in Europe without a visa. Your passport should be a passport should be.

valid for at least six months from when you begin traveling. Always make sure immigration officials stamp your passport when you go in and out of the Schengen area. At the borders, you could be questioned about your travel plans and border agents have the power to limit your time in a particular country based on their whims. So be nice to them and you might want to have proof of sufficient funds on you like bank statements, cash, and credit cards. Don't overstay 90 days in a continuous 180-day period in the Schengen zone, you could be fined, deported, and banned from reentering a country you love. And one more thing, if you are border surfing without a visa like Lanny, you're not eligible to apply for work. You're most likely either earning a living remotely,

living off your savings, or retired. Don't let them get you working because they will kick you out. Well, all of this math has done my head in, and I hope I never have to think about this again. But even more, I hope this has provided some value to you. And if you want to board or surf in Europe, this is the legal way. Again, go to postcardacadadademy.co for show notes and links to the Schengen's own calculator and other information. That's all for now. Thank you for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot?

I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahmicatel.com slash blank no more.