Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - How to Think Like a Roman Emperor with Donald Robertson

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

For several years I've been interviewing women like myself who packed up everything to start a new adventure in another part of the world. One of the core values that I talk about is that we will never have this day again -- make it matter. It's my softer way of saying 'If you died tomorrow, would you be satisfied with how you lived this day?' I knew I didn't invent this way of thinking but I didn't realize that Stoics have been talking about this for thousands of years until I learned about the greatest philosopher king, Marcus Aurelius, who ruled until 180 A.D. He said, “You could leave life right now. Let that determine what you do and say and think.” (Greg Hays translation). Marcus wrote down many words of wisdom, and I want to share his story today because he's an ideal example of how we can all live a good life, no matter what obstacles come our way.I'm joined again by Stoic expert Donald Robertson, author of How to Think Like a Roman Emperor, which explains the Stoic philosophy via Marcus' fascinating story. It's my favorite book on Stoicism! Get the audiobook for free if you're new to Audible by signing up for a trial at audibletrial.com/postcardVisit sarahmikutel.com to get in touch about how we can work one-on-one together to help you achieve more peace, happiness, and positive transformation in your life.Looking for a guide to help you discover your Enneagram personality type? Book your Enneagram typing session by going to sarahmikutel.com/typingsessionWant to connect on Insta? Find me hereDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to Live Without Borders, a travel and wellness show for expats, the expat curious, and globally minded citizens of the world. We are the travelers, the culturally curious, the experiences and not things kind of people. And we know that freedom is about more than getting on a plane. It's about becoming the most heroic versions of ourselves, which is why on this podcast you will hear insider travel secrets, inspiring expat stories, and advice on how to live abroad. but you will also hear episodes that will help give you the clarity, focus, and skills you need to create a life that will set your soul on fire. I am your host, Sarah Micatel, a certified clarity coach trained in the Enneagram, and I first moved abroad on my own at age 18, and I have been permanently enjoying life in Europe since 2010. If you are ready to make some big moves in your life

and want my help moving from someday to seize the day, visit live without borderspodcast.com. I've had a podcast for several years now, and one of the core values that I talk about is that we will never have this day again, make it matter. It's my softer way of saying, if you died tomorrow, would you be satisfied with how you lived this day? And I know I didn't invent this way of thinking, but I didn't realize that the Stoics have been talking about this for thousands of years until I learned about the greatest philosopher king, Marcus Aurea. who ruled until 180 AD. That's 180 AD. So a really long time ago. He said, you could leave life right now. Let that determine what you do and say and think. And any Marcus quotes that I throw out here in this episode are from the meditations, which Marcus wrote, and it's the Greg Hayes translation. So Marcus wrote down many words of wisdom. And I want to share his story today because he, He is such an ideal example of how we can all live a good life, no matter what obstacles come our way. First, let's dig a little deeper into the idea of memento mori, which is Latin for Remember You Must Die.

Marcus was influenced by the stoic philosopher Epictetus, who talked a lot about this Memento Mori concept, but he didn't use that exact phrase. Here's Donald Robertson, the author of How to Think Like a Roman Emperor, who you heard on the previous episode on Stoicism. Here's what he has to say on the history of Memento Mori. It comes from Roman generals or emperors, who were generals, riding in triumph through the streets of Rome in a triumphal chariot and they'd have two slaves who may have been gladiators actually holding laurel crowns above their heads and they'd whisper in the general's ear as he triumphed through the streets. Remember you must die. Because the generals would paint their faces red

in imitation of the god. Jupiter or Zeus. So they became like a god. Like, you know, there's like a tick of tape parade and stuff. And the guy who's pretty easy a momental mori, remember you must die. So you do. Your ego doesn't get too big, like you stay grounded and stuff. But the phrase survives because it's a genre in the history of art, right?

Like Vanitas paintings and things like that. Even Damien Hearst is it with a shark and formaldehyde. That's a memento mori. So we still have these concepts that filtered down into our culture, but we don't know where they came from. like everyone's kind of forgotten. It's like there was this huge universe, literally like a Plato's Academy, like a temple or a university that was smashed.

And we've just got little fragments or bits of it. And we go, oh, this is this cool idea here, this little cool. We don't realize it used to be this magnificent edifice. So we're impoverished intellectually and philosophically as a society. We're just trying to reconstruct the shattered remnants of, you know, what were once great philosophies of life that guided people. through adversity. And so we're kind of fishing around for a philosophy of life. We're all lost. You know, like many people are now agnostics or atheists or they've kind of, like, Christianity has

ceased to be the dominant guiding force that it was. And he said God is dead, but we're still kind of trying to come to terms with that. So for many people, they're looking for a secular philosophy of life. And they don't realize that we already had those, but they were destroyed. The books were ripped up and shredded and burned. The buildings like Plato's Academy was knocked to the ground. But we still have the concepts, the words, the ideas, because it filtered down through the arts. The Stoics say we should never be surprised by anything that we should be prepared for

whatever comes our way. So I have to keep myself in check when I want to say, I can't believe that our society has just floundered around in a mental health crisis when we have had stoicism this whole time. I felt the same way when I stood in Rome's Pantheon, which was built in 125 AD by Marcus's adopted grandfather Hadrian. And the Pantheon is the best preserved ancient building in this city. It's a former pagan temple. That's now a Catholic church, which is still in use. And that is how it survived over all of these years, because it's been constantly, in use. It's a cylindrical temple with a columned porch and has this massive concrete dome that

stretches 142 feet high, the exact diameter of the rotunda below, a perfect building that by some miracle survived the sacking of Roman. I remember being in the pantheon for the first time and also standing outside of it and hearing that in 410, 410, the barbarians invaded and just burned and looted everything that they could. But they weren't able to pull down the Pantheon. The temple was just too solid and strong, but the temple fell into the dark ages and civilization lost the knowledge to make good concrete for a thousand years. So they could not to make buildings like the Pantheon for a really long time because they lost that kind of technology. They lost the knowledge. And to be honest, it's still pretty much lost. They don't make concrete like the Romans did.

And as Donald indicated, over the centuries, we have lost almost all of the great writings from ancient Greece and Rome. But some very important works survived, which Donald discovered as a young teenager when his father died. His dad had been a Freemason, and Donald was seeking a philosophy for his own life. As an adolescent, I was kind of going off the rails. I really, you know, I dropped out of school, and I had no idea what I was going to do.

And then I kind of discovered philosophy, and it gave me a thing to base my direction and life around. And it's a gift that's never stopped giving to me, and other people seem to benefit from it as well. I think it's a scandal out of our culture that we have this heritage that's so incredibly valuable and people when they discover it love it to bits and yet they don't know about it. It's a failing in our education, I guess, that has been forgotten about. And I feel like a big part of my job is just saying to people, you're really into self-improvement,

you're into philosophy. Have you ever met this guy, Marcus Aurelius over a year? And then they go, no. And I say, check it out. And they go, wow, that's amazing. And they get really excited about it. So I think my job is really easy. It's a privilege to be able to introduce people to this amazing material.

I'm going to be honest. College kind of turned me off to philosophy. The required course that I took was all abstract theory with no real world application for 18-year-old me. And so later in life, if somebody had suggested that I read Seneca or Epictetus or Marcus Aurelius, the three best known Roman Stoic philosophers, I probably would have said, thanks, I'm good. It wasn't until I came across Donald's book, How to Think Like a Roman Emperor, which teaches Stoicism through the fascinating story of Marcus Aurelius, but I realized that Stoicism is all about action, not ivory tower pontifications. And the Stoics were such interesting people. Epictetus was a former slave. Seneca was a playwright, among a million other things, and also

one of the richest people in the world, Marcus Aurelius, was chosen to be emperor. And we know a lot about him, thanks to the book, the Meditations, which he wrote, his letters, and what other people have written about him. When he was a wee boy, his dad died. And Sir Marcus was three, his father died, and we don't know why. But then his mum, who is this incredible woman, brought him up. I suspect his mum introduced him to Stoic philosophy, because she was friends with a stoic philosopher called Janius Rusticus. And so other than that, Marcus had a reasonably happy childhood. He was a Roman noble. He had a privileged upbringing. He was talent spotted by the Emperor Hadrian.

And Hadrian was a horrible, obnoxious, pretentious, bad temper. I know he's one of the most popular emperors, but he was an unpleasant man with bad temper. And he kept having people executed and stuff. And Marcus thought, I don't want to be emperor because they don't want to be like him. And he said something to Hadrian, and we don't know what he said to him. But Marcus' his family name was Veris, which means true. And Hadrian said, I'm going to call him.

this kid, Verissimo, which means the truest of all. And it seems to imply that Marcus must have said or did something that when he was a small boy, and Hadrian thought, like in the Emperor's New Clothes, right? This kid's the only one that can talk straight to me. Like, everyone else is

going to feel scared of me. And so he decided that this little kid was going to be Roman Emperor one day, that he was too young. He had to, Hadrian had to appoint an interim ruler, Antoninus Pius. And Marcus allegedly thought, I don't want to be Emperor, because I'm going to end like a headcase like Hadrian

The story goes, Galen, Marcus Arrilli's court physician, who is a notorious know-at-all and smart-offs, but left loads of really interesting books as a result. Galen says that one day Hadrian lost his temper with a slave, and he happened to be writing at a time. Romans used a metal

stylus to write with, it's like a fountain pen a bit, and so Hadrian just lashed out and stabbed this guy in the eye with his stylus, and then everybody went, ah! And they were a gas. And so Hadrian then felt embarrassed and so he said oh sorry you know like his own and I can do to make it up to you I've got loads of money if that's any help you know and he he offered to make it up to this guy and the slave famously said

well the only thing that I really want is my eye back which is one thing that even the most powerful man in the world couldn't give him so Gailan's point is that sometimes when we lose our temper the consequences of it might be permanently irreparable so Marcus grew up in this culture and he thought I don't want to turn into a monster like that idea, but I don't want to be emperor. But then Antoninus Pius succeeded Hadrian, and Marcus absolutely revered him. He was Marcus's adoptive father,

and Marcus thought he was the perfect emperor. He completely kept his cool, and every respect he was the opposite of Hadrian. So Marcus became inspired. He thought maybe I can do this. But I believe that Marcus thought that Antoninus Pius naturally had an even temper, patience, self-discipline

and Marcus felt that he didn't have quite those qualities naturally and he needed somehow to get them he thought by nature I've got a bad temper like Adrian but I want to be more like Antoninus so how can I develop the character that I see this guy

exhibiting naturally and I think that's why he started training in stoic philosophy because he thought stoic philosophy would allow him through practice and effort and study to become more like his template role model for the ideal emperor, which is Antoninus Pius. I'm going to jump ahead in time to talk about the meditations, which were private notes that Marcus wrote about applying Stoic philosophy to his life. It's believed that these notes,

which add up to 12 books, were not meant for anyone else. Book 1 is Donald's favorite of the meditations here, Marcus praises the people he considers positive influences in his life. He talks about the qualities he admires and what he's learned from the people he's known. Stoics look for examples of virtue and the lessons they can take on how to be a good person by watching others. Marcus's highest praise went to Antonius Pius, and there's no evidence that Antonius was a stoic himself, but Marcus looked up to him for his. is virtue. He was a very gentle and calm person in the way that he ruled the empire. The Stoics believed that it's important to have role models and whenever you have a question about what

you should be doing about something, you should think about how your role model or mentor would act under the same circumstances. So what do you like about your role models? How do they act? How can you be more like them. And how would you act if they were watching you? Donald poses this reflective question. How much time do you spend embodying the qualities of the person you most admire? I will let that sink in for a moment because I don't think that most of us spend a much time thinking about this. So how much time do you spend embodying the qualities of the person you most admire? You can choose anyone to be a role model. So living dead, fictional character, somebody who embodies your values. Marcus looked up to Antoninus and Epictetus. Donald, I would guess, looks up to Marcus. For me,

I'm going to add Donald Robertson to the list of people who I admire. Okay, let's go back in time to when Marcus became Ember in 161 AD. Before this time, he unofficially ruled alongside Antoninus during a very peaceful reign. As soon as Marcus got into power, the Parthians invaded Armenia, which is a Roman client state or allies. The Romans were legally obliged to do something about that.

And so they started a five-year war in the Middle East against the Parthians. The River Tyber flooded, which was a catastrophic thing to happen. A lot of livestock and homes were destroyed. Tented to be an epidemic of malaria that follows floods like that, caused by mosquitoes,

because everything. kind of like swampy and stuff. There was a famine because a lot of food was lost and livestock. I think there was an earthquake around about that time as well. I think there was also an uprising in Britain. So a lot of things started to go wrong. And then they won the war in Parthia, and they thought, few. And then the returning legionaries,

in addition to all the gold and stuff that they brought back, brought back the plague, which is probably a type of smallpox. and the current coronavirus pales in comparison to the horrors of the Antoinine Plague. The Antenine Plague lasted roughly 15 years-ish, and it killed something like 5 million people in the Mediterranean region alone. You know, Marcus had to spend most of his reign as emperor dealing with that. And one of the things that happens when you have a plague and it kills half the legions is that the northern tribes

along the Danube frontier your enemies on another frontier and the Danube in this case think this would be the perfect time to have an invasion party like let's all invade because the Romans are all dying anyway and so they had a massive invasion

they got all the way over the Alps into Italy and besieged the city of Aquilea and Marcus who had never served in the army his brother dropped dead who he put essentially in charge of the army and Sir Marcus was thrust into this position of having to take operational command of the largest army ever massed

on a Roman frontier which numbered approximately 140,000 men and he was sick he had chronic chest and stomach pain one Roman author says his skin was transparent by which I mean he was I think he meant he was pretty pasty looking in sickly they constantly thought he was going to drop dead.

They always thought, oh, he's going to peg it any minute. But like many sickly people, he clung on longer than everyone else, ironically. So it was all the healthy guys around him that were dropping dead like flies. He outlasted a lot of them, even though he was always coughing up blood. So Marcus goes to what is now Austria to take command of the army, and that's when he started the meditations. Donald theorizes that he wrote it, at least in part, because he was lonely.

Earlier, Donald mentioned that Marcus's mother had a stoic friend named Junius Rusticus, who became Marcus's main stoic teacher for decades. But we happened to know that he died around about the, just around the time that Marcus started writing the meditations. And Marcus would have had to leave him in Rome because he happens to be the urban prefect, which is like the mayor of Rome. And Marcus had to go to Austria. So he would have been separated from him anyway. and then he died. And so I think Marcus would have been writing letters to this guy

talking about philosophy and life and stuff. And then the guy dies. And then Marcus thinks, I'm going to have to take over the role of becoming my own therapist, my own mentor. And so the heading on the original version of the Meditations, as his book is known today, the original Greek manuscript was titled to himself

as if he was writing correspondence to himself as opposed to writing to one of his friends or chittles. And that's my theory about how he began writing the Meditations. It was a substitute for his, I believe, for his lifelong friend and advisor, recently deceased. Even though it's widely believed that the Meditations was never intended for public viewing, it's become one of the most popular and widely read self-help and spiritual classics of all time. Well, it captures Marcus's notes on how to live a good life by being a good person.

It doesn't exactly capture the essence of what Marcus was like as a person. For that, we have other sources. So we had the meditations for centuries. And then at the beginning of the 19th century, an Italian scholar called Angelo May discovered a bunch of letters, a cache of letters, between Marcus and his rhetoric chitter, his Latin rhetoric chitter, a guy called Marcus Cornelius Front. And this is amazing because it's the private correspondence of a Roman emperor

so we literally get a window into the sky like if we could be really nosy if you wanted to be really nosy about the inner life of a Roman emperor, this is it and what we learn is that he was incredibly affectionate towards his friends. He was like an really, really

nice guy. He was very educated he's always talking as you kind of expect poetry, talks to the front of a lot about rhetoric, gives us a lot of speech, He's very, like, talks about his family all the time, like he loves his kids. He gives evidence of being adept diplomacy and specifically reconciling arguments between his friends. So we see him do this over the course of several letters. And it's really quite impressive.

Then you can connect that to the fact that a major part of his job is Roman Emperor. It's not, we sort of think of an emperor as somebody like, you know, like Nero and Ligula, there were bad Roman emperors that ruled as autocrats and wanted to be celebrities. And then there were other Roman emperors who were completely the opposite and were career politicians and bureaucrats and spent their life studying and training really, really, really really hard to do the job really conscientiously and saw themselves as a servant of the people. So there were good emperors and really good emperors and really bad emperors, right? And Marcus and Antoninus Pius were really good emperors.

And Hedium was kind of like somewhere in between. He had these off days and sometimes he was good as well. And so a big part of his role was to be a diplomat and to engage in peace negotiations with other tribes, races, like something he had to do all the time. And so we can see in these letters that he's highly adeptive to diplomacy. Also by modern standards, he heaps praise on people. He's, you know, very warm. He's always shivering with expressions of love and affection, telling him how much he misses them and things like that. This is earlier in his life, by the way, before he's really had a lot.

all these catastrophes and he's toughened up more and kind of he started writing the meditations. But at one point he says to Fronto, because Fronto was from the north of Africa, and so he was a bit of an outsider in Roman society. And they say, look, Roman patricians, like wealthy Romans, the upper class in Roman society, don't even, Fronto says,

they don't even have a word in Latin for Philistorgia, like this Greek word. It means natural affection. Like, it goes, like, the Romans don't even have a word for. this, right? And he goes, it shows the elite in Roman society are all up their own backsides kind of thing

and, like, they're very unfeeling. And I guess, like, the caricature we have is that they watch gladiatorial games and stuff, and they're all desensitized to human suffering. And Marcus and Fronto seem to be kind of bitching a little bit behind their backs about this and kind of gossiping and, like, and they're going, yeah, like, they're kind of, like,

they wouldn't know, like, what love was or affection. Like, and Marcus absolutely exudes natural affection. He's the opposite, extreme. towards his kids. He calls him his little chicks in their nest. They talk about mundane family things. So you do not get that from reading the meditations.

Meditation seems much more somber. He's constantly contemplating his own mortality. And it may be because he's written it after he's gone through all these catastrophes that we mentioned. But also it's because the meditations isn't a diary. It's a series of exercises where he's forcing himself to face the worst-case scenario and reflect on his own mortality in order to improve his character. But he also experiences joy and love. He uses the word love 40 times in the meditations.

It's a book about love. And again, that's a true. I'll say a controversial thing. Like most people would find that surprising, but you can view the meditations as a book about love. But a kind of rational love, what does it mean to love somebody and accept at the same time the transience of it and that, you know,

the person that your love could be dead tomorrow or like, you know, to love somebody and accept the fact that maybe they won't love you in return or, you know, what does it mean to have a philosophical attitude towards love? And, you know, should we, how do we love ourselves? There's another kind of aspect of it. I think that you could see the meditations as being a whole book about self-love. Nevertheless, the meditations is more somber and its tone. But it's kind of reassuring to see that in his private life he was a very gregarious, good-humoured and exceptionally affectionate man.

So what exactly was Marcus writing to himself? Here are some of the key stoic ideas. Mementu Mori, which I already mentioned, remember you must die. Marcus said, think of yourself as dead. You have lived your life. Now take what's left and live it properly. So he's saying, think of every day as a gift and as a bonus day and let go of everything that happened in the past because we have no control over it. the future is not guaranteed. Stop worrying about what will happen 20 years from now because that day may never come. We only have now. Marcus said objective judgment now at this very moment.

Unselfish action. Now at this very moment. Willing acceptance. Now at this very moment of all external events. And external events are everything beyond our control, which is most things. Marcus also said, external things are not the problem. It's your assessment of them, which you can erase right now. If you can cut free of impressions that cling to the mind, free of the future and the past, then you can spend the time you have left in tranquility and in kindness

and at peace with the spirit within you. So I blurred together a few of his passages here, but the essential thing goes back to what we were talking about in the previous episode on Stoicism 101. It's not the things that upset us, but our judgments about things. And also, some things are in our control and other things are not, and most things are not. So how can we stop caring as much as we do about what other people are thinking about us? Marcus said, it never ceases to amaze me. We all love ourselves more than other people, but care more about their opinion than our own. So in other words, your opinion of yourself should matter more than someone else's, especially some random on the internet. Do what you think

is right without worrying about what other people think or because you want praise or attention or because you want to avoid conflict. Start valuing. what you think about yourself more than when other people think of you. And remember that the thoughts that you allow in your head determine how you'll think and act and feel. Marcus said, the things you think about determine the quality of your mind. Your soul takes on the color of your thoughts. So instead of complaining when something goes wrong, ask yourself something like, why did this happen for me? Life is going to throw. You all sorts. of impediments. You can either quit or keep going and find a way around the obstacle. When bad things happen,

consider them an opportunity to build character. In other words, the obstacle is the way. Stoic author Ryan Holliday wrote a whole book with this title. And Marcus said, the mind adapts and converts to its own purposes, the obstacle to our acting. The impediment to action advances action. What stands in the way becomes the way. These weren't just ideas that Marcus liked, but rules he lived his life by the ultimate test coming when his general Evidius Cassius declared a civil war against him. This guy who was more of a military hawk, wanted them to deal with barbarians, as they called them, on the northern frontier, more violently. And he thought Marcus was taking too long and it was too expensive to try and secure peace. But Marcus wanted to secure lasting peace. Not just, can I kill everybody

that would be actually a terrible idea strategically anyway, but he had a civil war, but this guy declared himself emperor, effectively instigating a war. And Marcus allegedly gave this speech in public, which is shocking to the legions. He stood up in front of the legions, it would be in Sirmium, Serbia.

He gave this speech. He said, I pardon everybody. We're going to have to march against them anyway, right? But I hope that they stand down before we even set off. I'm pardoning everybody involved. And he also said,

that because this guy had effectively impeached his authority as emperor, that he would have been willing to step down from that office voluntarily and appear voluntarily in front of a Senate hearing in order to answer the charges against him and allow the Senate to decide whether he should remain in office or not, which is really kind of remarkable thing to say, and it's difficult to imagine a modern-day politician having the confidence in themselves

to say, I'll resign then and I'll stand in front of the Senate, you can decide whether you want to accept my resignation or not or, you know, like if you want to replace me with somebody else, it's up to you guys. Because Marcus said from the outset that he didn't want to be an autocrat. He said, I'm in charge because you guys put me in charge, right? And they say that every major decision he made,

he ran past the Senate, and every major appointment he made, he confirmed through the Senate. in it as well. He said, I'm here to rule in collaboratively. It's a kind of presidential version of the Roman Emperor, if you like. The way we think of an emperor, it's unfortunate that we use that word, because in Roman society, the concept of the emperor evolved over the centuries, and it's also a complex role that involves really several different titles, and different people occupied the office in different ways. But Marcus wanted to do it as a servant of the people, and not as an autocrat. And he said, I'm here to say, I'm here to

serve the Senate and, you know, I'm going to run everything by you guys. And, you know, if this guy wants to declare himself a rival emperor, then, you know, I'm happy to come back down to Rome and I'll stand in front of the Senate and you can decide who should, you know, occupy the office if you if you're not happy with the way I'm doing things and you can replace me with someone else. Marcus did not have to go in front of the Senate. His legions loved him. They respected him. And so did the Roman people, word about the pardoned spread, and Vidius Cassius's men turned against him, and two of his officers beheaded him. The civil war lasted only three months, and the soldiers who briefly betrayed Marcus became loyal to him, preferring his inspiring leadership to

Evidius Cassius's brute force. Now, that's a really simple brief version of the story, but it's true. Marcus lived his values and people respected him for it. Plus, this was a brilliant strategic move on his part. And it's equally admirable how he remained so stoically calm in the face of treason and betrayal. In the last episode of this podcast, we talked about putting ourselves in other people's shoes and imagining how in their mind whatever they're doing, they think that they're doing the right thing. Epic Titus said it seemed right to him. And Marcus said to think of people who we think are doing wrong as misguided or lacking information, rather than just trying to be evil. So they're not willingly doing wrong. And this must have been what Marcus had to think about when Evidius Cassius declared civil war against him. Maybe the general had heard a rumor that Marcus had died and wanted to claim his power when he could. Throughout his life, Marcus relied on stoic techniques to, manage negative emotions.

And for Stoics, anger is the one they talked about a lot. Stoicism is, to a large extent of philosophy that wants people to challenge their anger and replace it with compassion and philanthropic natural affection and these kind of prosocial kindness, the Stoics say, is the antidote to anger. Marcus says to himself,

you know, when you're angry with someone, pause, shut up for a minute, right? We call it stop and thinking therapy. Stop for a minute. use it as a sign to tell yourself to stop for a minute and ask yourself the following question, are you not guilty in some shape or form, even if it's in a completely different guise,

of doing the very thing that you're angry with them about? And if you're not, can you honestly say that you wouldn't be capable of it in different circumstances? Don't we all have the potential to be prejudiced? Don't we all have the potential at certain times like when we're angry of being aggressive or judgmental or whatever it is that we're annoyed with the other person about. And recognising that, I think, will tend to make a slow down, step back,

become more mindful. And I think it contributes to compassion and understanding. Even some of the leading intellectuals throughout history get duped by misinformation. And the real danger is if you, you know, those people believe they're right. Marcus says, how do you know that other people believe that what they're doing is right. He says it's very easy. Like he was a magistrate. The Roman emperor also functioned as kind of like a Supreme Court judge.

And so Marcus, towards the end, all the way through his life, even that towards the end of his life, was still hearing cases in court. And so if you tell someone that what they're doing is unjust, I guess he had to do it all the time in court. And they seem offended, like, and angry, unless it's completely put on.

you know, like probably they believed that they were justified. Like, you know, maybe they thought they were doing wasn't a big deal. They thought it was trivial. They didn't think it was as important as you do. And also, the more dangerous people are, the more likely they are to believe that what they're doing is right. If you think about the worst tyrants in history, like the Hitler's and the Stalin's, did they believe that they were justified in what they were doing? 100%.

More than the average person. Like, they were overly confident that they were doing the right. thing. That was so dangerous about them, arguably. The Stoics weren't pushovers. They believed in standing up for what's right, but they also look to Socrates, their ideal sage, or as close to an ideal sage as you can get. And Socrates said, when it comes to anger and disagreements, somebody has to go first when it comes to making peace. The better person will extend the olive branch, not just to people they like, which is easy, but to those they find difficult. And then instead of hanging on to bad feelings, loving the life you're living now, this very moment, and remembering you will die

and not to be afraid. I imagine Marcus Aurelius woke up every morning, opened his eyes and thought, am I still here? Like, I could have been assassinated or died of the plague or overrun by invading Germanic hordes the night, but like, I'm amazed that I'm still breathing. He was surrounded by danger, but in a way that made him more grounded, and he realized that, he had to seize the day and can I recalibrate his priorities in life because he really didn't know

whether he was going to wake up tomorrow morning. You're constantly dying and being reborn every day, in a sense. And so the stories want us to really tune in more to the here and now. I don't mean to forget about everything else. To come back to this foundational thing, they want us to distinguish between what's up to us and what isn't. But the locus of our control, what's up to us is only in the present moment.

The past isn't under our control. It's too late. in the future isn't under our control yet we might be able to do things that influence the future but the things that we do that influence the future have to be done in the present moment because that's where the locus of our control is

and so they're always like dragging it as back say hey come by you, come back here where have you gone you've gone off into the past into the future come back here to the present moment and what you're doing right now and pay attention to it and the meditations of Marks Aurelius in particular

is one that long meditation on the present moment. He's constantly talking about dwelling in the here and now. In Athens, there are signs everywhere where we say, mind the gap on the underground, the Greeks have a sound that says prosaqi, which means attention. And if they have a sign, it says beware of the dog,

it says prosaqi with a picture of an relaxation or whatever. And this is the words the Stoics use for mindfulness, you could call it. They mean pay attention to what you're doing right now from moment to moment. the way you're using your mind, particularly the way that you're using your value judgments. And we're always forgetting about that. We're always off zipping into the future or ruminating about the past. Think about what you're actually doing right now and take more responsibility for it. Thank you again to Donald Robertson for his Stoic insights.

If you want to learn more about Marcus and Stoicism, get Donald's book How to Think Like a Roman Emperor. It is my favorite book on Stoicism. It's the perfect mix of educational. inspiration and entertainment. And you can get the audiobook for free if you're new to Audible by signing up for a trial at audibletrial.com slash postcard. Also have a look at Donald's website, Donald Robertson.com.com. Where he has a ton of great stoic resources for you. You might even learn about his latest project, which is a graphic novel on Marcus Aurelius. If you'd like to learn more about me, visit sarah migatel.com to get in touch about how we can work together to help you achieve more peace, happiness, and positive transformation in your life. That's all for now.

And remember, our time on this earth is almost up. So make every moment matter. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahmicatel.com slash blank no more.