Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Is Travel Insurance Worth It?

Episode Date: September 13, 2019

My mother and I are sitting at a red light then BAM! A truck hits us from behind. The driver claims he sneezed and lost control of his vehicle 🙄 Aside from some soreness, we are OK, but what if the accident had been a lot more serious?    The thought of hospital bills bankrupting me makes me panic more than broken bones. I’m American, but I don’t live in the U.S. and so I’m not part of the healthcare system. When I’m visiting my family in the States, World Nomads is my go-to company for insurance. With them, hopefully I won’t end up financially devastated if something bad happens to me in my home country.   Today on the podcast I am talking to Phil Sylvester, Head of PR and Media Communications at World Nomads. A former broadcast journalist, today Phil creates great content for World Nomads, including their podcast of the same name, which he co-hosts with Kim Napier (I make a guest appearance on the World Nomad’s Bangladesh episode).   I love what they’re doing over there at World Nomads because not only do they protect me while I’m traveling, but they also share my values, which can be summed up by Phil’s favorite travel quote, which is by Mark Twain: “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness…” I love Mark Twain and think we can all agree with him there.    I had a great time speaking with Phil. We get a little graphic in this episode with some of the stories. Hopefully you can handle it.    Did you know you can support this podcast by purchasing your travel insurance from World Nomads through the Postcard Academy?    How does that work? Well, I’m such a fan of World Nomads that I joined their partner program. If go to postcardacademy.co/insurance and click on one of the World Nomads’ links to buy your insurance, they’ll give a little monetary bonus to the show. You’ll also find a handy little travel insurance cost estimate calculator at postcardacademy.co. *** I’m your host, Sarah Mikutel. Did you know I host another show called Podcasting Step by Step? Check it out if you’ve been wanting to start a podcast. Every week, I break down ‘how to podcast’ with a little loving motivation to give you the skills and confidence you need to finally launch that show of your dreams.   Ready to travel? Get your free guide to cheap airfare.   Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

I don't know what it is that makes people think that they magically acquire the skills to ride a motorcycle by getting on a plane. Seriously. You know, like the place to learn to ride a motorcycle is probably not Rome or, you know, coaching in city, you know. Welcome to the Postcard Academy. I'm your host, Sarah Megatel. And today I am talking to Phil Sylvester, head of PR and media communications at World Nomads,

where I buy my traveling. insurance. Phil is a former broadcast journalist. Today, he creates great content for world nomads, including their podcast of the same name, which he co-hosts with Kim Napier. I make a guest appearance on the World Nomads Bangladesh episode. And I love what they're doing over there, because not only does World Nomads protect me while I'm traveling, but they also share my values, which can be summed up by Phil's favorite travel quote, which is by Mark Twain. Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness. I love Mark Twain, and I think we can all agree with him there.

I had a great time speaking with Phil. We get a little graphic in this episode with some of the stories that we share. Hopefully you can handle it. I'm pretty squeamish, and I made it out okay, but guys, you have been warned. Before we jump into this episode, did you know that you can support this podcast by purchasing your travel insurance from World Nomads through Postcard Academy? So how does that work? Well, I'm such a fan of World Nomads that I joined

their partner program. And if you go to postcardacadmy.com slash insurance and click on one of the World Nomads links to buy your insurance through there, they will give a little monetary bonus to the show. Once again, that's postcardacademy.co slash insurance and you will find the show notes for this episode there and also a handy little travel insurance cost estimate calculator so you can figure out how much travel insurance will cost you. Now into my conversation with Phil. Welcome, Phil. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Oh, thank you very much for the invitation. I'm really looking forward to having a good chat. You are joining me from Australia. Where exactly are you? I live in Sydney on the East Coast and I live in a little suburb, well, little suburb. It's only about six miles from the centre of Sydney, but it's a beachside suburb called Marubra, which is an Aboriginal word which means the sound of rolling thunder, which obviously we've, it's a surf beach and the surf makes a nice rolling thunder sound, which I can hear from my bedroom at night,

which is pretty awesome. You must sleep pretty well. I would love to fall asleep to that sound. I've also got kids, so you know. Okay. Trade ups, trade ups. So, Phil, did you do the traditional gap year that a lot of Aussies make? Yeah, I did.

Yeah, at the time, we used to call it the kangaroo trail because, you know, used to hop over to, because we've come from a very British background and a lot of people, when I was doing that, a British background. So everybody would hop over to London and then do their European trip from there. And I did that too.

I took a year off and based myself out of London for a while and then travelled around the European continent. But I have to admit, that was a lot longer ago than I really care to admit. Okay. When, you know, it wasn't so easy to travel around as it is now. And that's why people would take that gap year because it's like, you know, it was difficult to get that far.

It was difficult to get away. So people used to really make the most of it and travel for, you know, the good part of a year and then come back. So do you think it's a lot easier for people in Australia to travel these days then? Oh, heavens, yes. Okay. There are so many. I mean, we used to have basically quantus and British Airways,

and that was it. You know, it's only, oh, what, in the last 20 years, that the Pacific route from Australia to America opened up. And, you know, there are now so many budget airlines that you can get really cheap fares. And the whole of Southeast Asia has opened up to tourism. You know, when you think back to the, you know, Tony Whelan and the Lonely Planner and the hippie days,

that was, you know, it just wasn't, it just wasn't, there was no infrastructure there for people to go and not even backpack, but vacation. But now, of course, it's really, tourism is a massive industry right throughout Asia and Southeast Asia. And of course, Southeast Asia is just on our back doorstep. So it's pretty easy for us to get there. And, you know, everybody, I think something like, I mean, we were a country, we were a small country,

we're only 25 million people. but I think we made 10 million overseas trips last year. So everybody gets to have a go. Yeah, I love how much Australians travel. Where are you most excited about traveling this year? Or have you done any trips that, you know, just were amazing? I've only traveled domestically this year. I haven't been overseas yet.

I'm actually saving up for next year for a great big trip next year because I get some long service leave from, well, nomads. So I'm going to make the most of that. And I am a huge Italo file. I love Italy. So my wife and family are going to go and set ourselves up over there. I think we're going to try out Sardinia or maybe Sicily. I'm not sure. But go and set ourselves up somewhere. You know, get a decent place to stay and sort of settle down into a place for a few weeks and really get a feel of being locals in that place. Well, let me know what you choose. And I will do a podcast episode just for you. Thank you.

Awesome. So you work for world nomads. What sets you guys apart from other travel insurance options? Well, we actually like to speak of ourselves as a travel lifestyle brand. As our illustrious leader, Chris Noble, is fond of saying, you can't live and die an apple. You can't live and die a red bull, but you can't live and die as a world. But you can't live and die as a world nomad. Even when you're not travelling, you are a world nomad.

If you are interested in travel, you're always looking for inspiration for new places to travel to. If you believe, as we do, that travel is a positive force for change in the world. If you believe that the essence of travel is not about ticking off the Eiffel Tower and the leaning tower of PISA and those things, but if you believe that travel is about the connections you make with people that you meet on the road, especially with locals. If you believe it's about having new experiences and learning new skills, then you are a world nomad and you can do that all of the time. And the way travel insurance kind of comes into that. Our mission is to provide you the traveller with all of the tools that you need to be able to

explore your own boundaries. And one of those things, of course, we're very big on responsible travel and ethical travel. And when you talk about responsible travel, lots of people think, oh, yeah, you know, being responsible to the environment, being responsible and not exploiting people that you meet, being responsible and not, you know, exploiting wildlife. But you also have a responsibility to yourself and your family because, unfortunately, sometimes, not very often, sometimes bad things do happen when you travel. And, you know, you can be stung with very expensive medical bills. That could be, you know, really tragic circumstances where you need to be brought home for care.

And that can get really, really expensive. So you have a responsibility to yourself to make sure you're prepared for that. And that's what travel insurance does. And you have a responsibility to your family as well because, you know, mum and dad will remortgage their house to get you home because they love you. And you don't need to put them in such financial hardship if you take their responsible action. Yeah, I think that's what finally motivated me to start buying travel insurance. It was not, I was worried about like dying or anything.

It was, I was worried about, oh my God, what if I get hit by a car when I'm visiting my parents in America? And then I go bankrupt trying to pay hospital bills. So I totally get that. So I know that you have some horror stories, some like freak accidents that we would never think about before we go on a trip. So give us some stories to convince us. Yes, travel insurance is a smart idea. Yeah, look, right now as we're recording these, if you did a search in news, you will find this story. This is a real story and it's happening right now.

There is a British woman and her, I think, American friend who were in Tiam Rapp to go and visit Ankhaw Watt. And they were riding a motor scooter past a petrol station when a refilling tanker caught fire and there was a massive explosion. The petrol tanker and the petrol station exploded into a fireball. They have both been hit by that fireball and are very, very seriously injured. They're very, very badly burned. The British girl is one of our customers. Her friend, the passenger, is not insured. Her friends and family have begun a GoFundMe page to try and get the money to pay her medical bills.

We were able to get our nomad into a hospital in around CEMRIAP. And then we had to move her to a specialist Burns unit in Bangkok. And when she's well enough, we'll be repatriating her back to the United Kingdom to continue her treatment there. The amount that we have set aside that we estimate it will cost in the end is upwards of 70,000 British pounds. So what are we talking about there? 100,000 US, something like that. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's horrific.

Yeah, and I was just talking to, you know, some people at Nomads yesterday, one of our customer experience people. And I'd said, you know, like she's worked there for years and I've been there for nine years as well. And it's like in all my time here thinking about things that could go wrong, I never imagined a petrol station, a gas station exploding and creating a fireball as you were riding by on your motor scooter. That's like my, that's literally my worst nightmare is getting burned in a way like that. Like many years ago, I was in Thailand with my sister and we did this little trekking,

uh, adventure and we spent the night sleeping in these sort of thatch huts that had these kerosene lamps. Oh, yeah. At the front of them. And I don't even think I slept that night because all I kept thinking was, we're in the middle of nowhere. And if this thing goes up in flames, like how am I. going to get out of here. Yeah. I've become, you know, like I've become the guy who knows where all the exits are.

Yeah. When you're in a venue, it's like, where's our quickest exit? I'm the guy who I now have at home, I have a two-story house. I now have fire extinguishes on each level just from seeing all the crazy stuff that happens to people. Yeah, it's awful. And then just because of like all the terrorism that happened, especially in the U.S., I was at the podcast movement conference recently.

And a fire alarm went off during one of the sessions. And I'm just thinking, like, who pulled the fire alarm or like, what's, like, who's smoking a cigarette? But the girl sitting next to me said, oh, my God, I hope there's not like a bomber here or like a tear. Like, that's what she was thinking of. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I haven't been in the U.S. for a while because that was not the first thing that crossed my mind. but it was what was on everybody else's mind. Hey, look, let me give you a tip on that. Because when the, you know, the terror attack in London, you know, near the market with that one.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was the first time that the London police changed their advice from people to run, hide, tell. okay before that it was I don't know I forget what they used to say before that but it was like stay in place or shelter or something but now it's like run hide tell

and in the US it's run hide tell fight back if you've run out of options and I was talking to a guy about that and there's what actually happens in those situations where like you know a fire alarm goes off or you know a bomb goes off or you know a gun you hear gunshot

and most people think guns shots are going to sound like they do in the Hollywood movies and they don't, you know, they sound like firecrackers. But what happens is it's so far out of your normal experience that your brain freezes and you stop and you look up and your brain is trying to make sense of what's going on and it has no reference for it and people actually get rooted to the spot for quite a long time sometimes. And then when they realize what's going on, they don't know what to do. They go, okay, now what do I do about that? But if you, but what happens is the people perpetrating the terror attack, they know what's going to happen next. They've got a plan in their head. And they,

most of the people who, you know, become vixers with these things are actually, you know, just rooted to the spot. They're just easy targets because they don't know what's going on and they don't know how to react. But the terrorists have got this plan and they're not what they're going to do. They're going to cut your head off or shoot you, you know, like they're, They know it's going to be horrible and they're prepared for it. So if you already plan in your mind, if you hear pop, pop, pop, you know that that's gunfire. Run, hide. Straight away.

Don't wait. Have it like know where the exits are. Run away from the noise. You know, and you will be a good 30 seconds ahead of anybody else. Yeah. That's good advice because I think a lot of times people doubt themselves and they're like, am I hearing what I think I'm hearing? Yep.

Yeah. So if you're always having your mind, and then that's it. And then you can relax, all right? You can go everywhere because, you know, if a fire alarm goes off,

personally, if I'd been in the fire alarm went off, I would have got up and started moving straight away. Because if you wait for too long, everybody's going to be trying to get out of the exit at the same time and we're going to be stuck.

So I would have gone, okay, let's go. Yeah, false alarm, I'll come back. Good advice, good advice. I will follow the alarms immediately. That's, yeah, you know, that's the type of guy I've become, but, you know, once you know that, you can relax, you know. You're still alive, Phil, in one piece from what I can see, so.

Yeah, too good. So what does travel insurance cover? I know that it varies by country and some other factors, but in general, what are the big items that it covers? All right, three things, basically. It boils down to three categories of things. Cancellation and delay. So if your trip is cancelled on you, not if you wish to cancel your trip. It's another thing.

So, you know, if some part of your trip gets cancelled or delayed in some way and you have out-of-pocket expenses as a result of that, we cover those. So cancellation and delay. The other one is theft and loss of personal possessions. Pretty simple. You lose a bag. Bag gets stolen. That's covered too.

But then the other one is medical. And that's either, you know, medical expenses, hospital bills, clinic bills. and as I've just talked about their, you know, intensive care and also medical repatriation back home. So they are the three things that a travel insurance policy will cover. I know a lot of American customers are used to buying trip protection, which is basically cancellation and delay coverage. And they're also used to buying medical insurance and then buying or using their home insurance policies to cover them for lots. But a travel insurance product wraps all of those three things up into one product. And of course, has the backup of the emergency

assistance teams who are always on call 24-7 to help you if you do get into trouble. I read that Americans were like the least likely to buy travel insurance. That in other parts of the world, it was kind of like a given for a lot of travelers. Why do you think Americans are so hesitant? Do you think they assume it's going to be very expensive because their insurance usually is? Yeah, a couple of things. Yeah, you're right on those figures. I've just seen updated figures.

It's something like 97% of Australians. I don't think it's quite that high, but it would be certainly 90% of Australians purchase travel insurance before they go overseas. In the UK and Europe, it's around about 66 to 70%, but in the US, it's 35%. percent. And a number of reasons. Yeah, you're right there. A lot of people think they're already covered by their medical insurance that they have at home. And in some cases, your medical bills overseas will be covered, but not your repatriation home. But yes, you are right. The other thing that people worry about is that it's going to be too expensive or well. Because there's also a bit of

an old model that still hangs around in the United States where you pay the premium, which is a percentage of the value of your trip. So, you know, it's going to be. 7% or 5% of the cost of your entire trip. But what we're used to in Australia and in Europe and the UK and is becoming more common in the United States is the type of policy where, regardless of the value of your trip, your premium is set by the maximum benefit that can be paid to you. So if you're going somewhere and your trip is 20,000 bucks or it's $2,000, if you're, you know, it's determined by where you're going, your age and how long you're

going to be away, and then that's it. It doesn't matter if you go super luxury, if you go super budget. You've still got the coverage at that premium level. So there's a bit of a misunderstanding there. A lot of things to work on, try and help people raise awareness about how useful travel insurance can be. Yeah. I mean, I was really surprised at how affordable it was once I started to buy my insurance through World Nomads because I didn't buy it before. And one of the things that I love about you guys is that you can actually purchase your travel insurance after you've already started your trip. So if you forget, you can just buy it later. Yeah. And look, you know, lots of people do, you know, a lot of people go, why would I buy travel insurance? That's, you know,

a couple hundred dollars I can spend on traveling for a little bit longer. So they often leave that decision until the last minute. And we certainly see that in the last week or two before departure. But then those people are missing out because there's actually a lot of coverage for things that may happen pre-departure. Like if you break your leg and you can't go or, you know, a close family member becomes ill and you have to stay to look after them. When you cancel that ticket, you have lost that 10% non-refundable deposit. That's what your travel insurance will cover. We'll make sure that 10% gets back to you so you're not out of pocket. So a lot of people are missing out on, you know, that cover pre-departure.

But yes, we recognize that people do leave it to the last minute or sometimes after the last minute. So we've been pretty lucky to be able to build a product that allows you to buy after you've departed. Yeah, just going back to what you just said. So that's also a great plus. If I have a trip planned for January, I can buy my insurance now, but I would only be paying for the coverage for my trip. but if there was like an earthquake in Indonesia and that's where I was going and all of a sudden my hotel shuts down and there's no flights because I already bought my insurance in advance with you guys then I can still get a like I can still claim on my trip that got canceled because of

exactly just like think of it like think of it like auto insurance right if you have an accident in your car and you smash the car up you can't buy the insurance after that. You have to buy the insurance before that. Right. Otherwise, it's known as fraud. And it's the same.

And the benefit of it is you're not paying, you know, for that coverage pre-departure. Well, there's a small increase, but in some of our policies around the world. But yeah, but you are, you know, sometimes you've laid out quite a lot of money. and this is insurance to make sure that you are not left out of pocket if something unexpected and unforeseen should happen, like the earthquake that destroys your hotel. Somebody actually texted me tonight saying that she's back in the UK, but her suitcase is stuck in Belgium. How could world nomads help in a situation like that if she, you know, probably isn't going to get her suitcase for a few days, if at all? And it depends which country of residence you are.

For some of our policyholders, it's six hours, but for some of them it's 12 hours. But if your bag doesn't show up for, let's say, six hours, you're going to need a toothbrush, you're going to need a change of clothes, you're going to need a few essentials. You go out and purchase those. Keep the receipts. They are out of pocket expenses as a result of the baggage loss, which is covered. Now, if the bag doesn't turn up for 24 hours, then you can make a claim for the cost of its contents. But in the meantime, you need to get a few things. First of all, you know, because insurance fraud is a big problem.

So you need to be able to prove to us that you have tried to recover the bag and that it is in actual fact missing. So you're going to need some documentation from the airline about how you've approached them and what they've done and all that sort of stuff. So keep those emails and put them in with your claim. I guess before our trip, should we be taking pictures of valuables that are going into our suitcase that we can share with you guys in case we don't get the suitcase back? Yeah, sure. I mean, you've got all the receipts from all the stuff you bought, right? No, nobody does. Who keeps those?

I have yet to meet anybody who keeps the original receipt from, you know, some device that they bought three years ago. they're taking away with them. One of the ways we need to be able to prevent fraud is to ask you for proof of ownership. I know if you've got a receipt, that's great. If you've got a serial number, okay, if you've got, you know, like the instruction booklet that came with it, maybe that's okay too. But, you know, a lot of people have got things that they bought ages ago or given us gifts and, you know, it's hard to keep those sorts of receipts.

It's not absolute proof, but it goes a long way to helping your case if when you've packed your bag the day before you leave, unpack it, lay it all out on the floor, put today's newspaper next to it and take a photograph and then keep that in the cloud. Write down the serial numbers of cameras and other expensive equipment and try to estimate date of purchase and things like that. Just keep that stuff in a document, in your email account in the cloud so that you can always access it. And that photograph will go a long way. Would my smartphone and computer be covered in the general coverage, or does that have to get its own special insurance? We cover electronics up to the value of, and again, it depends on your country of residence, but I think it's about $1,500 per item to a maximum of,

about $2,500. So if you lose to $1,500 items, you're only going to get the maximum of $2,500. And look, it's, you know, these devices have got more common and more expensive over time. And we know we're a bit out of step with that and we are trying to improve that,

that sort of coverage that we have for electronics. But look, if you've got, you know, like a really expensive camera, you've got a $5,000 DSLR or something like that, then it's probably a good idea to look at other insurances for those as well. And especially with cameras, if you join a photography club, they often have a, you know, a good sort of deal for members where you can cover that sort of equipment. Check your home policy as well, your home contents policy. sometimes items that you, you know, portable items you take out of the home are covered as well.

And look, it's a bit of a historical thing. You know, when, you know, nomads never used to carry around a computer in their pocket, a computer camera, you know, like, yeah, it's changed really quick. And so we admit we're a bit out of step with that. But, you know, do read your policy. And look, there may be another travel insurance policy that has higher benefits for electronic goods, and you might think that is a better policy for you. Then go for it. Take that one out because one of the most important things about travel insurance is that

people read and understand what is being offered and what is being covered and choose the policy that is right for their circumstances. We think we've got a pretty good policy for people who like. like to do the travel the way we like to do. But that may not be right for you. So, you know, please do your own due diligence. We're very happy for you to get what's right for you, even if it's not us. I'm still stuck on the smartphones. So forget about fancy cameras. If somebody, if I suspect my camera is, say my smartphone is stolen, but I'm on a group tour and they're leaving and I don't have time to go to a police station, is that like an essential

or what if I'm not even sure if somebody stole it, it's just all of a sudden gone? What do we do in that situation? Every claim that is made is assessed on its merits. If you said, look, I didn't have chance to go to the police station before my flight left. However, I have got this signed report from my tour guide. I've got this report from the hotel where I reported it missing.

Okay. If you can get as much evidence as possible, Our policy wording says that you have to report it to a police station and get a police report within, I think it says 24 hours, 48 hours. But, you know, if you're in the middle of the Amazon and there is no police station, like that, you know, that time kicks in when you get back to somewhere where there is a police station.

You know, do your best, keep records of everything, get as many people in an official position to sign off and say, yep, Sarah reported her. phone missing to us and we had a good look for it. I was in Columbia last year. Lucky you. Somebody asked me to show some photos that I had on my camera. And so I was showing him my photos and this girl came running down the street and

accidentally knocked my phone out of my hand and it flipped up into the air and it just had a case on it, but it fell just the perfect way onto the ground and completely shattered. but it didn't actually occur to me that travel insurance might cover this. Would it have? Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. I don't think there's any, you know, there's lots of, I'm just trying to think, I mean, you may think of travel insurance companies as people who are looking for ways

not to pay a claim. In actual fact, I can't speak for all of them, but I know at World Nomads, we're always looking for an excuse to pay because we know you're out of pocket. So I can't think of any reason there why. No, I reckon that would have a very, very good chance of being paid. That's accidental damage. Yeah. You know, if you had a witness to it as well, get a statement from them.

Oh, now I know for future. Hopefully that doesn't happen again. So people who buy World Nomads insurance, like, especially all the people I know, they're more of the adventurous types. And I know that you guys are well known for your adventure activity coverage. Could you tell me more about that? And then do you have any stories of anyone who was a bit adventurous and needed to use your insurance?

Sure. I mean, that was part of our philosophy of when the brand started. It's like, you know, people like to go out there. And it's about seeking out experiences and doing things. and, you know, what do they say these days? It's about collecting experiences, not possessions. Yeah, experiences not things, yes. Yeah, that's it.

And so we recognise that pretty early on. And so we said, what are our nomads doing where they get out there? They like, I know it was difficult to get coverage for soft adventure activities. You know, like white water rafting would be excluded and things like that. I mean, well, no, this is what our people are doing, you know. They're taking their kayak. So we were able to build a product that covers 130 different adventure activities. There are limits, of course.

You know, we won't, we'll cover whitewater rafting, but only up to grade four or five. We won't do grade four or five, that sort of stuff. What would fall into those categories? Oh, the stuff you see in the Olympics. You know, like serious whitewater. rafting, we don't do. But if you were to go to, I mean, I know they, I'm trying to think where they do it, if you were to go to, what is it, the Columbia River where they do whitewater rafting, and there's an organised tour there and, you know, in those big rubber rafts and what have

you, I doubt very much if that would go above maybe grade two or three. And for that, you cover. But if you're like, you know, serious, experienced whitewater rafter grades four and No, we're not covering that. And there are other limits like we used to have, we used to not cover trekking above 5,500 metres. Everest Base Camp is at 5,700 meters. So we changed that to 6,000 meters so that we, you can be covered for trekking to Everest Base Camp, but not beyond.

And I'd have a look at the people that go beyond Everest Base Camp. They're wearing crampons and ropes and oxygen bottles and, How many people tragically died trying to summit Everest last year, some ridiculous number. So, you know, we limit it at 6,000. So because beyond that, you've stopped being a adventure traveller and you're an expeditioner or something even crazier. And look, and it varies a little bit, depending on your country of residence, some things. But you can find a list of all of these, by the way, on the World Nomad site.

Just go for Will Nomads, what we cover. For a while, I do you may remember this story. This was maybe two years ago. For a while, under the American policy, we actually covered, I think it was base jumping for a while. It was covered. I'm going, what? How does that work? And that changed.

I don't even know what base jumping is. What is that? I mean, I've heard of it, but. Yeah. Well, you climb up to. the top of a tower and jump off it and parachute down, or you get to a cliff and, you know, that sort of stuff. Like really crazy, extreme.

So not jumping, skydiving we didn't cover, not jumping out of an airplane, but jumping off things and parachuting to the ground. So, yeah, you know, like really extreme adventure. And there was a Florida man who was in Switzerland and he was base jumping and it went wrong and he ended up crashing into the mountainside and spent 12 hours overnight stranded on a ledge, you know, a couple of thousand feet up. Just hanging there. Well, he was on a ledge, you know, broken legs and things like that.

Oh, gosh. And some head injuries. And so, of course, the swift authorities had to go and rescue him and they got him down. And then we needed to evacuate him back to the United States for medical treatment. Because he had a head injury, he needed a low altitude air ambulance. So, you know, they can't go up to 30,000 feet at low pressure. They have to stay a lot lower. So that was a pretty expensive medical repatriation.

And we went, yeah, maybe we're not going to cover base jumping anymore. So we took it out. But, you know, he was the last one to be able to make a claim from it. So, and he's fully recovered. I've seen reports in Florida newspapers. I know he's fully recovered. So that's good to know. Well, good for him.

So these are some examples of people like that guy was, you know, definitely a risk taker. Do you have any examples of people who are just kind of minding their own business on vacation and then all of a sudden just some freak accident hit that they never would have thought of? Okay. I did warn you that this, you may be surprised. We have had two claims for broken penises. Goodness. That sounds very painful.

Sure does. And guys, if you're listening, like, this is going to make your eyes water, okay? Both of these cases, okay. This also sounds like risk takers. I'm not sure what story is coming here, but. No, no, no, no. Well, people are, you know, are traveling and they're with their partners. And in one case, one of the claims the gentleman said, you know, we were making love.

and, you know, I accidentally rub my penis against some very coarse material on the bed. And what he did was he split his frenulum. Now, the frenulum, you've got a frenulum, okay? Everybody's got a frenulum. You know how your tongue joins the floor of your mouth? And there's that little sort of string that connects it to it. That is a frenulum. Guys have got two.

The other one's down there. In Australia, we call it the banjo string. You know, so. Okay. And then the other, and he tore his frenulum. And you actually have to have an operation to reconnect it. You have a frenulectomy. The other case that we had, same sort of thing.

The guy had torn his frenulum and a vein on his penis. And he said, it bled a lot. I bet it did. So, you know, their medical bills got paid and, you know, I hope they're fully recovered and back enjoying their travels. We wish them well. Oh, gosh. We had another guy as well. This is one of our favorite ones from quite a long time ago as well.

There was a guy who was traveling around, I think he was traveling in Southeast Asia somewhere, maybe Indonesia. And he thought he'd been bitten by an insect and it was becoming infected. And it wasn't getting better. And then after a couple of days, he noticed that it was wriggling and they were actually things alive under his skin. So something had laid its eggs under his skin. Oh, my God, nightmares. Nightmares.

Yeah, I know. So he went to a local clinic and they gave him some antibiotics. And they say, well, we can't cut them out. But please go and buy a piece of meat and strap it to your leg. And the maggots will prefer the fresh, juicy meat on the outside of your leg rather than what's inside you. And it works. They all left his leg of their own accord and went into the piece of meat. Now, we paid his –

Oh, my God. We paid his medical bill there, but he had to buy his own piece of meat. Okay. Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh. Yeah, I'm ready to just buy more travel insurance right now just hearing these stories. Another thing that I read recently was that I didn't know about

was that if you wanted to rent a motorbike in another country, you're supposed to have a motorcycle license in your home country. Yes. Is that true? Yes. Okay. Or a valid motorcycle license. in the country in which you are riding.

So basically you have to be a licensed motorcycle rider to ride a motorcycle or motor scooter. And I don't know if they still do it, but it used to be if you went to Bali from Australia, you could rent a motorbike, go to the police station in the capital in Dempasar, sit a very short written exam, and then go out in the car park

and do a figure of eight around some traffic cones and they would give you a tourist license. So you were licensed to ride in Indonesia. Not great, but you know, you were licensed to ride. I don't know if they still do that there. For one of our sister brands, one of our co-brands, we did a study, this is a couple of years back now, but motorcycle claims out of Bali,

we rejected two-thirds of them, 66% we rejected because the rider was not wearing a helmet, and that's mandatory. in Indonesia. They were not licensed. Or three, they were under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Or number four, all of the above. Okay.

You know, which we call that unhappy trifecta. No helmet, no license and drunk. Seriously. No, you're not covered for that. But yeah, you do need, and the international driver's permit is not a license. It just translates what licenses you hold at home into other languages. So the IDP is not a license to ride.

It's, that doesn't cover it. So, and this gets really tricky when you go to Vietnam because, um, you,

uh, they don't recognize IDPs there. And to get a, and you can only ride a motorcycle in Vietnam if you have a Vietnamese, uh, driver's license. You can, can only get a Vietnamese driver's license if you have a visa that allows you to stay for more than

three months. All tourist visas expire at three months. So as a tourist Vietnam, you cannot get a Vietnamese driving license. Therefore, you are riding there unlicensed. Whether you have a lot of illegal riding around, I guess. You're breaking the law. We can't cover illegal activity. You're breaking the law if you do that. Regardless of whether you have a motorcycle license back home or not, in Vietnam, if you're riding around, you're very, it's very unlikely that you're covered. And, you know, you're going to have to make a really good case for making a claim for a motorcycle accident in Vietnam, which, you know, which is terrible because now, like, you know,

those amazing motorcycles they have there and everybody likes to, you know, a lot of people I've really enjoyed doing those motorcycle tours up and down, north and south, along the coast there. But you need to really check with your insurance provider about whether that's covered or not. Yeah, that's why I wanted to put it out there because I knew there were some confusion about that. I personally am afraid to ride a motorcycle, although in Bali last year I rode an electric bike and thought, like, this is as brave as it gets for me. But who knows, we'll see. I don't know what it is that makes people think that they magically acquire the skills to run a motorcycle by getting on a plane. Seriously, you know, like the place to learn to ride a motorcycle is probably not Rome or, you know, coach him in city, you know?

Yeah. Can we acquire those skills at home first? I have a motorcycle license and I won't ride a motorcycle in Southeast Asia. No way. Yeah, the traffic is crazy. Yeah, yeah. You know, and you're not used to it and the roads are bad and you're only ever, I mean, I always, when I ride a motorcycle, I always put, you know, the proper protective clothing on, you know, the leather jacket and clothes shoes.

Yeah. You know, a bintang singlet and flip-flops are not protective wear. Yeah, we need to use our heads and, you know, be smart about all this stuff. Yeah. Would you do that at home? You know, would you put a. singlet on, you know, shorts and flip-flops and ride down a highway at home. Probably not.

Yeah. We think, like, we've got this magical vacation immunity floating around us. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. We should try and bottle that. We should try and buy, and we could sell that. You and I, should we start that business?

I would love that. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's okay. We're doing it. So World Nomad, um, you know, You know, people buy that for their shorter term holidays, but I think that it's something that digital nomads are using as well. Could you talk to me a little bit more about how world nomads could be used for a bit longer term coverage?

Because you have the ability to buy when you're not at home, that means while you're traveling, you can extend. You know, I'm saying away longer than I thought my policy is about to expire. I can extend the policy and you keep going. which is very unusual. Most traditional travel insurers require you to purchase in your country of residence. So that would have meant flying home, buying the insurance, flying out again. He's going to do that too expensive.

There is, unfortunately, for our American country of residence policyholders, a recent change in federal law, which means we can no longer sell policies longer than six months. We used to be able to sell 365 days. Why is the US doing that? I think it's some federal regulation that's come out, and I think it's something to do with the GFC. I'm not exactly sure why. But look, it's a consumer protection thing. So that's fine.

They've determined that that's, you know, better protection for Americans buying policies. That's great. No big deal. It's only six months now under world numbers, but you can get online anywhere and just renew your policy and away you go. Wait, just to clarify for that. So we can get online to renew. But if we're Americans, we can't renew past six months? At a time.

No, no, no, no. At a time. Only six months. No policy can go longer than six months. But you can extend. Okay. So we can just keep renewing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keep renewing. Here's a little, you know, back office secret for you, okay? When you extend, it's actually a new policy. Okay. And in the back end, we connect the two together. So it's actually a new policy. I mean, I guess what do we care as long as we're covered. But we call it extended and we do all the connecting stuff in the back office, in the back end of the whole system.

So to all the intents and purpose to you guys, it's an extension. But technically speaking, it's a new policy, but we connect it all up. Okay. And we get the coverage based on where we're a resident. So I'm a resident of the UK actually and not the US. So I would be buying my insurance as a UK. resident? Yeah, sure. And country of residence thing as well, people get hung up on that. It's like, you know, well, I'm American, but I'm living in the UK. So what do I put, am I American or

am I UK? Where am I? Well, put it this way. If, you know, if you happen to, you know, need repatriating back home for medical treatment, where would you want to go? Where's mom? The UK. I want to go to the UK and have my and have my mom fly to the UK. Okay. Well, think of that. Like, you know, in a, you know, rather macabre way, where do you want your broken body returned to be fixed up? So if you want to go home to the US, put yourself in as a US resident, if you want to go to the UK because that's where you live and all your friends and what have you, and then put UK. So basically where do you want us to send you if it goes wrong. It's what you should. Okay. Let's have heavy stuff. Deep thinking.

Yeah. Look, you know, yeah. It happens. So if I do need to file a claim, what's that process like? You can, you can either collect all the receipts and all the evidence and wait until you trips over and do it when you get back home. Or you can do it whilst you're traveling. And there's a pretty simple process on the website of lodging your claim online. It goes into the system and sometimes, you know, especially if it's, you know, you've got all the correct documentation. If it's pretty simple, you'll get the money in about a month or two, depending on how busy we are. And it goes in your account and you keep travelling. So you don't have to wait until you get home, you can do it whilst you're still travelling, which works for the digital nomads who, you know, may not be going

home for quite a long time. Are there any sort of age limitations when it comes, or any other limitations when it comes to buying travel insurance? Yeah. And look, and here's another, you know, another thing that is kind of got a bit of history to it as well. People over the age of, you know, 67, I think, never used to go backpacking. Now everybody does, you know, it's like, you know, as we're getting older, we're all in better health and we've got more disposable income than we ever used to do and travels never been cheaper than it is at the moment. So we've got a lot of, you know, people in their 60s and 70s and 80s still wanting to travel. Unfortunately, we have upper age limits for world nomads policies. There is a bit again, country of

residents. But I think the lowest we get is about 67. And then the cutoff comes, I think the highest we've got would be, you know, early 70s. But as a consequence of that maybe, I don't know. You know, the vast majority of world nomads are aged 18 to 35 and the big in that 24 to 35 group there. That's, you know, before, you know, before families get in the way and before you get that big promotion and, you know, you get sucked into that lifestyle instead of the travel lifestyle. I don't know. Travel forever. That's what I say. Yeah, that's it. That's it. Well, you know, that's, you know, it's becoming more common. And, you know, more power to the people to do that. It just, I mean, when, when, when I was of that age, you know, it just, you know, it just,

wasn't possible. You know, like you couldn't, I mean, that would mean going somewhere and settling down and getting a job somewhere to earn some money and then uprooting and going and moving again. But now it's possible, you know, to be location independent. You can be a writer or a designer or, you know, some sort of information technology, all sorts of work that you can do. You know, all those, you know, airtasker and freelancer on all those gig economy

workplaces that you can, yeah, and the whole, you know, all those shared office spaces, which never existed, which are all just booming now. So it's much, much easier to do it than it ever was. So, you know, more power to the people that do it. It is now a viable alternative lifestyle, and it's a great one, isn't it? Yes, I love it. And I started out as an expat, and I'm still, I'm still an expat, but I'm definitely interested in exploring location independence more. just so I can spend a little bit more time in the US with my family here, but still live in England and then still do my other traveling. So final question for you, just like to clarify.

Actually, can I ask you a question? Can I ask you a question about that? Is that okay? Because a lot of, I mean, obviously, writing about travel so that you can travel is the majority of that location independent stuff at the moment. And I think I'm interested to see what you think about. that because I think that means that that whole, you know, nomadic lifestyle, that

independent, location independent lifestyle is still in its infancy. And do you see that there are people who are living that kind of life who are not in the travel industry in a way, if you know what I mean? Are you starting to see more of those? I am seeing more of that, yeah, across the spectrum. So like the people I know do like a lot of marketing and communications and like that type of work. But I'm seeing it diversify from that as well. So people being virtual assistance or people having like traditional corporate jobs, but they don't need to be in an office anymore.

So they could do their job from anywhere. I mean, most jobs that I know of that you don't actually have to go to the office to do them. You know, you could easily call, you know, have online calls or all of the work could be remote essentially. So that's not every job, obviously. But I'm seeing definitely that trend and also the gig economy is just getting bigger. It's only going to keep getting bigger. Yeah, that's fantastic. Is this the point where I admit I'm sitting in my wardrobe at home right now, not in my office?

And I switch the camera off because you were looking at my wife's clothes hanging up in here, you know? And I'm visiting my parents and I'm up in my dad's den. So, yeah, we can be from anywhere. Yeah, that's right. But one question I wanted to add based on, like, what we just mentioned. So if somebody wants to try the location independent lifestyle, they move to a new country. They're on a freelancer's visa so they can stay there a little bit longer. If somebody starts transitioning from nomad to expat, when do they need to get off the world nomads insurance?

because you guys aren't a permanent insurance, you're like a travel insurance. So do you kick us off at a certain time? No, we don't. We are well aware that expats uses as de facto health insurance in the country where they're residing at the time. We're well aware of that. We can see that. the number of people who purchase out of country gives that away amazing. We're aware of it.

It gets complicated because, you know, it's a highly regulated. Insurance is very highly regulated. And more and more countries are starting to impose regulations on them. And, of course, lots of countries see opportunities there for earning revenue for their own, you know, in-country health insurance system. rather than the money going overseas. So they started to scrutinise it a bit more. At the moment, it all kind of flies under the radar.

So we're aware of it, and we're also aware that things may change and that we need to adapt to that as well. And there are, you know, blue sky thoughts about what we could do, whether we offer another product that is specifically for expats that's still World Nomads branded, and that's very possible. About three years ago, World Nomads was bought by one of the big health insurance companies in Australia. So we've got a synergy there.

They provide in-country health insurance to Australian, so we already have that kind of model there, so it's not too hard to then think about building a product that still world nomads branded, and it's for people who have put down roots in other places. So, yeah, look, it happens. we're aware of it. We're not actively encouraging. We can't legally advertise that and encourage people to use it that way, but we're also not discouraging it.

We know it goes on. Thank you so much, Phil, for making the time to talk with me today. Where can people find out more about you and about World Nomads? Okay. Well, if you haven't had enough of my droning voice, then you should look up the World Nomads podcast, where we do some pretty coverage of some destinations once a fortnight, and we speak to some amazing nomads,

people who've got great travel stories once a fortnight as well. They'll turn it. But world nomads.com is where you go to get your insurance, and then you've got the navigation in the bar out there. We've got all that inspirational content in our explore section. We also commission people to write amazing first-person travel stories in our stories blog. If you've got any questions about insurance,

we can get those answered in our help center there as well. So go to worldnomads.com. You'll find everything that you need there. And can I just tell your listeners, you're a wonderful person. I changed this appointment at the last minute so I could go to my daughter's book parade up at school. So thank you very much for accommodating that. Oh, you're so sweet.

Anytime. Thank you very much, Phil. Thanks, mate. Bye. Phil shares many great travel safety tips on world nomads, including how to stay safe when you're visiting Chernobyl. well, how to avoid a drink, spiking, and more, so this isn't dry and boring safety warnings, but advice from active travelers like yourself. So definitely check out their site before your

next trip. And again, if you are looking to buy travel insurance and would like to support the Postcard Academy while doing so, visit postcardacademy.co slash insurance. That's all for now. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarah micotel.com slash blank no more.