Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Location Independence for Beginners

Episode Date: February 12, 2021

I had so much fun talking to today’s guest, a true kindred spirit because he not only loves traveling and living abroad, but he loves podcast creation as much as I do.Jeremy Enns is the CEO & Storyteller In Chief of Counterweight Creative, a podcast strategy and marketing agency that he manages while living a digital nomad / location independent life.In this episode, Jeremy shares the steps he took to become location independent, and offers some really good advice on how you can, too. Both Jeremy and I made similar mistakes when location independence came on our radars. Namely, that we thought blogging and online courses were the best way to go. Wrong. We talk about a much better alternative to begin your location independent career in this episode. Enjoy!Hello! I'm your host, Sarah Mikutel, a transformation coach and an American expat based in England. But the real question is, who are you? Where are you now and where do you want to be? Can I help you get there?Visit sarahmikutel.com to learn how we can work together to help you achieve more peace, happiness, and positive transformation in your life.Book your Enneagram typing session by going to sarahmikutel.com/typingsessionWant to connect on Insta? Find me hereDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to Live Without Borders, a travel and wellness show for expats, the expat curious, and globally minded citizens of the world. We are the travelers, the culturally curious, the experiences and not things kind of people. And we know that freedom is about more than getting on a plane. It's about becoming the most heroic versions of ourselves, which is why on this podcast you will hear insider travel secrets, inspiring expat stories, and advice on how to live abroad. but you will also hear episodes that will help give you the clarity, focus, and skills you need to create a life that will set your soul on fire. I am your host, Sarah Micatel, a certified clarity coach trained in the Enneagram, and I first moved abroad on my own at age 18, and I have been permanently enjoying life in Europe since 2010. If you are ready to make some big moves in your life

and want my help moving from someday to seize the day, visit live without borderspodcast.com. I had so much fun talking to today's guest. He is a true kindred spirit because he's not only a travel lover and somebody who's living abroad, but he is also as much into podcast creation as I am. Today's guest is Jeremy Enz, and he is the CEO and a storyteller-in-chief of counterweight creative, which is a podcast strategy and marketing agency. And he manages all of this while he is living a digital nomad slash location. life. And so in this episode, Jeremy shares the steps he took to become location independent, and he offers some really good advice on how you can as well. And both Jeremy and I made similar

mistakes when location independence first came on our radar. He got started like blogging. I was thinking online courses were the way to go wrong. We talk about a much better alternative to get started with location independent life in this episode. So enjoy. Welcome, Jeremy. Thank you for joining me on the podcast. Sarah, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to chat with you today. I know that you are Canadian, but you're currently living in Serbia. And I cannot wait to hear this story. But before we get to how you ended up there, I would really like to hear you talk about your career path because it's such an interesting one. Yeah. So I feel like this goes back to I can start at so many different places.

I think I felt like in high school and even after high school that I had all this potential that could be funneled in so many different ways. And I'm guessing that a lot of your listeners feel that way as well. And so there was this kind of fear of commitment to any one path. And especially to something that I didn't feel like really, I know Derek Sivers uses the phrase, hell yeah or no. And so I think that was something that I hadn't heard. articulated at the time, but I kind of had this feeling of like, well, yeah, I could go do this.

That would be interesting. I could go do this. That'd be interesting. And I don't know that I ever had any one thing that jumped out at me that I was like, yeah, I've always wanted to do this. And that's going to be the thing that I'm going to be happy with for the next 20 or 30 or 40 years or whatever that was. So I kind of just put off going to university. I went on, you know, tours to different campuses in my final year of high school and just had no clarity around it. So I was really fortunate that my parents, there wasn't a lot of pressure to immediately jump in university after high school. And so I took one year off and then two years off. And I think it was even three years off before I had been really into music. I played in bands and as a guitarist. And of all things,

a flyer in the mail one day from a recording school, basically. So like music production and sound engineering. And for some reason, I don't know how that managed to make its way to me. I was living in the prairies, which is the middle of Canada, where there's not that many people, lots of farmland, and the school was in Vancouver. And so I saw this flyer and started getting interesting of like, oh yeah, I've always been into music. I also like the technical. I've been side of things. I've been experimenting with recording. And so I started looking into these schools. And they were basically Vancouver, Toronto, or Montreal. And maybe one way out on the East Coast in Halifax. So a long way from home, whichever way I was deciding to go. And so this was the first thing

that actually felt right to me, though, like, oh, yeah, this would be something that I could, like, really sink my teeth into and would have a lot of fun doing. And so I ended up moving to Vancouver, going to school for that. After I finished school, I got a internship at a big studio that was fairly well known with a lot of producers who had won Grammys and things like that. Like, it was quite high profile. But the way that internships work still is kind of like an old school industry in recording studios is that you basically show up at eight or nine the morning and this is all unpaid work and you're there until whenever the sessions end at the end of the day, which, you know, if you're lucky, you might be 8 or 9 p.m. more often it was midnight,

2 a.m., 4 a.m., super long hours. And I was just doing this like one, two days a week at most. I had a day job. I needed to support myself. But there were people who were like living in their cars and were just like there every single day. So after doing that, you know, once to twice a week for about a year. I was like, okay, I'm not moving up the ladder here. There are people who just have way more passion for this than I do. So I ended up leaving that internship and kind of putting the sound engineering record producer dream behind me. And I started just working other odd jobs, landscaping, doing kind of manual labor type work. I did tree planting for a couple summers, which is one of the, I think often ranked as one of the most difficult jobs in the world,

both physically and mentally emotionally are pretty isolated with a small group of people out in northern Canada in the forest and living out of a tent for months at a time. So definitely something that is a fun experience to look back on, but I would not wish on anyone. We all need those humbling experiences, I think. We do, yeah. And I definitely look back on it fondly and some of my favorite memories and like the relationships you build with people going through those experiences are definitely lasting and valuable. but I kind of got the travel bug around this time. And I had always wanted to travel, but had never really found a, similar to the career path side of things, never found like a itinerary or country or anything like that.

That was just, I had to go there. And there was just like, I wanted to go everywhere. So one day I remember a friend of mine, we'd been talking about traveling together for probably four or five years. We went to high school together. And we'd always talked about like going on some trip, but always this big idea. And so he emailed me and the email said something like the first line was like, don't laugh at this. I'm serious.

Just hear me out. But I thought of a way that we can go to all these countries we've talked about and more cycle tour. And I was like, oh. And again, it was like the same thing as with the sound engineering where I was like, oh, this is the thing. Like riding through Europe on a bicycle, going through all these countries over the course of three months like this, this is the thing I've been waiting for.

And so we ended up going on this trip, spending three months. We did two weeks in Iceland. Then we flew to Norway and cycled from Oslo to Zagreb, Croatia. And then I spent another month backpacking through the Balkans. And then another four months I met up in Southeast Asia with my girlfriend at the time. And we had started dating well after the plans for the cycle tour were already in motion. And so ended up having this year of travel. And by the end, far from having that kind of thirst or desire for travel being quenched,

it was, of course, I only wanted to travel more. And so at this point, like, I started getting really interested in, I started hearing about this whole location independent digital nomad thing and started actually looking into that. I didn't know that existed beforehand, had met maybe a couple people on the trip. And everybody that I'd met was like a software engineer or something, not something that I had the skills for. But I started getting curious about it and doing more research into, I mean, the whole digital nomad lifestyle, travel, podcasts and these things. And I really discovered both podcasting and location independence or that term at the same time. And so that was kind of my entry point into both of those things, which have now kind of defined my life for the past five years or so. Yeah, I feel the same way.

Well, I've been an expat for a little over 10 years now. But I don't think I really knew of location independence until I started listening to a lot of different podcasting and hearing those experiences. as well. And I think, yeah, once you start traveling, it's never really quenched. It's just something that is always a part of you after that. And you've been traveling quite a bit this year as well, kind of like a slow nomadic type of travel. What have you been up to? Yeah. So my girlfriend and I, we traveled together. We met, well, we met online actually through a location independent travel online community probably four or five years ago, right near the start of the time. we both started traveling and we had actually worked together. She's a graphic designer. So I'd

hired her to do a few projects and we'd become friends. And as so often happens with people who, you know, oftentimes our location independent communities aren't that big. And so you often end up crossing paths. And we ended up crossing paths in Turkey and we started dating there and have been traveling together now two years. So kind of leading up, actually, I guess it's almost three years now. Time is flying. But the first two years, we were kind of like one month at a time in a place. And that was like fun for a while at the start. And I think we were both kind of getting a little ready to slow down a little bit more. We've been kind of talking of setting up a home base before COVID and or even just maybe spending more time in in each country. But we still were

kind of maintaining this one month in a country at a time. And that's a pretty quick pace of travel when you're also, you know, working full time and building businesses. But when COVID came in, we were in Edinburgh at the time. And that kind of forced us to, I mean, I say forced, but we were also, you know, like I said, kind of looking for a reason to slow down. But we weren't going to be going traveling. The border was closed between Canada and the U.S. So we couldn't go back home and be together. And so we kind of just said, well, let's just stay out of our respective countries. I'm Canadian. She's American as long as we can. And we'll just, you know, try and weather this out in Europe. And we didn't know obviously how long that was going to be. But yeah, we ended up spending. five months in Scotland. And then we applied to stay there. We would have actually stayed longer. We probably would still be there if they had granted us a visa extension, but they didn't. So we kind of had to start looking at basically where were Americans allowed in. And there was only a handful of options, especially at the time when we were having to leave Scotland. And I think there was Ireland. We were looking at there and all the accommodation was like, you know,

$2,500 or $3,000 a month, which was well out of our. kind of budget range. And then there was Portugal and then the Balkans. So we were kind of looking between Portugal and the Balkans. We ended up going to Lisbon where we had a fantastic three months there. And then we went on to the Balkans after that once we needed to get out of the Schengen area. And so we spent three months in Split, Croatia. And then we've actually just arrived in Belgrade, Serbia three or so weeks ago at this point. I love Split so much. And I also have a previous episode of this podcast on Surfing of the Schengen Zone. And I also interviewed a couple friend of mine a while back on working abroad. So they are doing different like, sort of like work for,

you get to stay at a place for free and get room and board. And they were just talking to me about how that experience just brought so much like meaning to their travel. But they were similar to you in that they were a couple from different countries. So she was Brazilian and he's American. And they couldn't stay in their respective countries either. So I just think it's so fascinating how you guys are the same way. Like to be together, you just have to keep traveling to different countries. I mean, we've felt a little bit guilty about it at times because I think people. And I mean, in Split, we actually met a lot of Americans who, I think, Split, or Croatia, since clamped things down, but they were kind of inviting Americans in to, you know, kickstart their,

their tourism economy. And so there was, we met a bunch of Americans there and we were kind of like, this, this feels kind of like not great where basically they had all been now allowed to work remotely, but like they were going out to bars pretty much every night. They were like going on Tinder dates and all these things. We're like, we're still in this pandemic right here. Like, and so I think that we have been kind of wary of people judging us as these kind of like, you know, just trying to escape America and like not, not maybe being thoughtful about COVID. And then, which is kind of kind of the opposite of how we've been. We're like hunkered down at home and, you know, obviously wearing masks everywhere and being really careful. But I think a lot of people who have

heard that we're like traveling and going to all these different countries have been kind of, there's some potential for judgment there. And we're like, like, if we, if we do go back, we're going to get separated. And we kind of thought about that at the start when COVID first happened. And we thought, well, yeah, you know, I could have gotten into the States, would have had been able to stay there for six months had they, you know, actually let me in. It's always a bit of a coin toss with the security, the Board of Security there. But then we thought, well, six months for sure it will have passed by then. But we're really grateful now that we ended up staying out and not going back because, yeah, we would have been separated. And I've heard plenty of

stories of cross-border couples who've now been, you know, six months, nine months a year with no way to see each other. Yeah. Well, no judgment on my end, Jeremy. And I don't think it's a black and white issue. You know, certain people love to point fingers. but you can be a traveler, an expat, a nomad, and be responsible and respect to culture. And I'm sure in non-COVID times, that's the kind of traveler you are. Yeah. Anyway, so just because you're in a different place, it doesn't mean you're going to act like a reckless buffoon. So how are you making this location independent lifestyle happen for you?

Tell me a little bit more about that journey and, like, give us some advice if we're interested in doing this ourselves. Yeah. So I mentioned before that when I started traveling, that kind of coincided with my discovery of podcasts. And so when I got back for my first trip, I went back to working a day job landscaping. And it was a job where I was allowed to listen to, you know, anything on my phone, music, audiobooks, podcasts. And I'd actually never listened to a podcast at this point. I knew they were out there. This was back in 2015, I believe. And so podcasts were, I'd been around for a while, but I just never listened. And I think it was like the second day of work.

I had been listening to music the first day. And I was like, oh, you know, I used to listen to audio books. Maybe I'll, like, see what's out there. I used to listen to, like, free, like, literature, basically, like the classics. Because you could get them for free or you can, like, take audiobooks up from the library. And so that's what I'd done at other jobs in the past. I thought, oh, yeah, maybe I'll do that again. It's a better use of my time than just working all day listening to music.

And then the thought popped in my head like, oh, yeah, there's also those podcast things. I wonder what's out there in terms of those. And so I went home that day and I remember, I think my search term was something like creative business or something like that. And this I think was still at the point where I like didn't really know the terminology around location independence or digital nomads. I like knew that people did that, but I didn't know how to search for that. And of course I put in creative business and there's actually like, you know, dozens and dozens of shows pop up. And I'm like, oh, I've tapped into something here.

And so I just started binging podcasts like all day, every day at work on the weekends. And pretty much for a year I listened to probably like eight plus hours a day of podcasts, at least on the weekdays. And oftentimes that, you know, one and a half, two times speed. So I was just like consuming everything I could find on creative business, which led to online business and location independence and travel shows and all of this just content around what I didn't know existed that I was actually looking to do. And so at some of it.

point in there, I actually started wanting to build a photography business and build up a blog around that. Photography was something that I had kind of explored as a potential career path after I kind of turned my back on the recording world. I shot a couple weddings, things like that. And I thought that that might be something, although weddings, I mean, you can do destination weddings, things like that, but that's not still super location independent necessarily. And at some point, a friend of mine who has a podcast, I was listening to his show and he made some offhand remark about his podcast editor. And I had kind of, I knew that there were freelance podcast editors, but for some reason, I had ignored this because I had in my mind that I was like a

trained sound engineer and that was like so far beneath all these skills that I had that I didn't even like pay it a second thought. And for some reason, when I was listening to his show and he made that comment, I was like, wait a minute. I'm trying to build up this blog around photography. that's probably going to take like two to three years to build up an audience and get products out there to the point where it can support me. Maybe I should just like kind of humble myself and take some like low paid work as a podcast editor, even though my skills in my mind are so far beyond that and that I could maybe just start traveling immediately while still working toward the photography blog. And so I got on Upwork and I think within three days I had my first client. And as soon as I got that first client, I kind of knew in my mind,

I was like, okay, if I can do it once, I can do it more than once and I can do it enough times to build up a client base in order to be able to go travel. And it actually ended up only taking six months. I added my mind, I was like, well, maybe it'll take like a year or a year and a half or something like that. But I know it's going to work in having that confidence that I was on the right path that I had found something that would work given enough time. That was just a huge boost to me. And it ended up taking six months. And at that point, I quit my day job and had booked a ticket over to the UK. I'd lined up, I think, three house sits, house and pet sits in the UK. And so I had no accommodation costs for that time. And I kind of gave myself this like three months. Like I have enough

savings that even if all my work dries up, I can, you know, last those three months and I could go back home and get another job. But the business kept growing. And so that that first year was very much like travel focused. And and then after that, I kind of got, had a little bit of a scare at the end of the first year where I lost a couple clients and realized I hadn't been doing anything to actually bring in new clients or work on the business. And so since then, these next, wherever we're at now in three or four years, I think four years since then have been very much like full time working on the business, less focus on travel, slower travel, but it's kind of shifted into at some point in there, like I had been working towards the photography blog as well, but I kind of

gave up on that and really actually fell in love with what I thought initially had just been the stop gap kind of job, which is podcast editing and production and strategy and marketing and all those things that's now since grown into. And at this point, I have a team of 13 people who work with me at my podcast agency, Counterweight Creative. And yeah, it's come a long way since when I was just a freelance Upwork audio editor. You just said so much. So much good stuff. And so I just want to like recap that. So you went with, you started off doing something that you were interested in, but could take forever to start. But then the light bulb hit. And you were like, wait a minute, I already have these skills where I can get paid now to start building the life that I wanted.

So that's like number one, a huge thing. Like recognize what your skills are now that you could get paid for now. You also mentioned Upwork. So that's a website where people can go and do like different freelance jobs for people essentially, right? Yeah, yeah. Is that how you built your business or what other things did you do to grow? Yeah, so, and yeah, related to what you just said there, I think that, like, I recommend to anybody who's looking to travel, basically, to start with a service-based business. I think that, especially when you listen to online business podcasts, there's just so much

emphasis put on, like, scalable products, digital products and that kind of thing in building an audience, but that just takes so much time. So I think service-based businesses are just by far the quickest way to be able to go travel, which I realize, like, my goal was not to build a photography business, it was to travel, and that this service-based route was actually the fastest way to achieve that goal. In terms of growing the business, it started out pretty much entirely on Upwork, and then after that, like, Upwork can be, it's kind of gets a lot of bad press from a lot of freelancers is kind of a race to the bottom. There are ways to kind of stand out and have higher rates. I mean, I noticed that I got kind of zany with some of my introduction pitch, not emails,

but messages that you send, submit to clients that really, I think, made me stand out when they read them. They were like, not professional. And I also had a higher rate, which I think when people see that, they're like high rate and kind of wacky personality-filled pitch, they're like, oh, this person's like different. There's something unique here. And so I think that that can really help you stand out if you are in one of these kind of marketplace apps where, you know, any, any job poster is probably getting, you know, 50 or 100 different applications. Really, you need to do anything that you can in order to stand out. That's your kind of first school. What do you mean by Zaney? Can you give us an example of something you would have said? So I think I, the one that comes to

mind that I think was my opening line. And I think like the opening line is the most important part. probably the rest of my proposal was pretty normal and I still tried to inject a lot of personality into it. But it was something along the lines of like, hey, my name is Jeremy. And you can think of me as like something like a zombie except instead of brains, I chew up like audio recordings and spit them out the other side all like clean and shiny or something like that. And I got a number of people who were just like, wow, I have not received a single proposal. That was anything like that. And, you know, surely that turned some people way off. But I actually, one of my favorite clients who's still with me actually came off Upwork. And I remember him,

like, referencing that pitch as just being like, that was the thing that did it for him. He had all these different proposals. But as soon as he read that he's like, this is the guy. And we're still working together. But yeah, it's, I think there are ways that you can get good clients off Upwork. But you also have to be pretty selective because there are a lot of bad clients on there as well. And there's a lot of competition. Yeah. And just really quick for anyone who is not like in this lifestyle. A service provider, in case you've not heard that phrase before, is somebody who literally provides a service for you. So you are doing like copy editing or maybe graphic design or podcast editing. So it's a service people need and you are providing it. So it sounds like

Upwork got you a great start. Did you do anything like with referrals? Yeah. So referrals has been to this day still the primary source of new clients. And that's, That's something that I'm hoping to change because referrals are fantastic, but they're like last year, no wonder during COVID there was a big dry patch where people were not referring. And we've also kind of like raised our rates out of our existing network. And so I'm looking to do more actual like outward facing marketing and connecting with people who aren't part of our existing network already. But referrals to this point have been the big one.

I would say, I don't know, 80% of our clients have probably come through referrals. and maybe even more than that, which is like fantastic in one sense and also scary because if that dries up, then you're not getting any new clients. And I think that the great thing about this business model is that it is essentially a kind of monthly subscription model where our clients, they're producing their episodes every month on schedule. And so it's not like my girlfriend is a freelance graphic and web designer. And she'll go through phases where she's super, super busy like most freelancers. And then there'll be a phase where like all of her other clients, current clients that are ongoing, don't have any work. And there's like no incoming leads. And so

I've been really grateful to have this kind of stability to weather those long patches. Because I've definitely had like, I remember this is so funny. One, the timing, one of my existing clients, actually she's not actually a client. So this is the other thing was going to conferences where I met people. And so I met this woman at a conference, so her and her husband, probably a year into running this business and they have for the past five years, they got in touch with me like three times about like, okay, we're finally ready to start our podcast. They never have, but they've referred me to so many people. And so really, they are kind of this, this root of all these, this branch kind of that sprouted off of them that led to all these other clients have come through them,

really. And so I think that going to conferences and things like that, sometimes it only takes meeting one person that can lead to a whole ton of clients. But one year, it was like, I think either my birthday or the day before my birthday, I think she sent me 40 referral emails through a mastermind that she was in. They were doing a big push to to start podcasts. And this was a kind of a wellness industry, wellness business mastermind. And so she had just been sending like, yeah, I know a podcast producer and sent 40 emails. And I was just like watching them come in. And I was like, wait, another one? And another one? And we get to like, yeah, 40 of them. And right around my birthday, too, I was like, oh, man, life is good. And maybe.

like two or three of those ended up signing up for us, but I mean, that's still great. So yeah, I think like conferences, networking with people, referrals, those have been the ways that I've got clients and grown the business that way, but I'm looking to add other avenues onto that kind of going forward. Is there any final words of wisdom you want to share with people who are interested in becoming location independent? I think the thing that I got stuck on, and this is so funny, like I said, I had had kind of dismissed the whole idea of podcast editing because I kind of saw myself

above it, but I always struggled with this, like I don't have any relevant skills, which looking back was so ridiculous. But I think that that this is one of the things that I hear most commonly from people who want to go location dependent and don't know what to do. And I think that that sometimes is

true that you may not have any relevant skills. Most of the time, I think there is something that you're just not thinking about it in the right way. Like, I think for me, all of my, when I was thinking about my audio skills, it was so tied to working in a studio, which is a physical place that is not mobile. And so that just required this reframe about like actually looking at, okay, are there other people working in audio?

Like what way could I kind of shift my perspective around this and see that? But the other thing is that even if you don't have any relevant skills, most skills that, or many, I should say, skills that are, you know, very doable as location independent, jobs or careers, you can learn them in not that much time through online courses. Many of those might even be free, like watch YouTube channels on like becoming a copywriter or designer or like any of these career paths. If you know someone who is location dependent, you can probably learn that for very cheap in not that much time, good enough to start getting at least low paying clients, which probably you don't want to stay there forever. But you can get your foot in the

door and just keep growing that way. So I think a lot of times rather than just like, well, what are my skills? Like, pick something and learn it and then shift out of that and learn something else later that you might rather be doing. So that would be where I would recommend. And I think a great starter kind of location independent job is as a virtual assistant. I know a lot of people who have got their start that way, just doing kind of general admin work for businesses. If you're a smart person who knows their way around technology, you can, you can do the job for sure already. And there's a lot of training programs and it's kind of stuff out there as well that you can tap into, but it's a great way to get your foot in the door and actually, like, work inside another

business and start building up other skills as well. So that would be my recommendation for people kind of looking to get started if they're stuck on, you know, I don't know what the skills that I have are or I literally don't have any skills that work. That's great advice. And as you were talking, an idea popped into my head of, you know, what are people coming to you for or just like what comes really easy to you? Like, I was thinking, like, my back. ground is in writing. I have a journalism degree. I have my MFA in creative writing. I've done writing at all of my jobs. And so for me, writing isn't something I would necessarily think of doing because it comes so easily to me. And so, like, it's not even on my radar that I should be a copywriter. But now that I'm thinking

about it, I'm like, actually that actually, because I'm like, who would pay for this? But really, lots of people. So I'm like, we all have skills that are in demand in some way. We're just maybe so close to them that we're not even thinking about it. Yeah, I think that's so often the case. I hope you enjoyed part one of my interview with Jeremy. In part two, he is going to share his travel recommendations for Edinburgh, Scotland, where he and his partner spent the biggest chunk of time living in the last year. Have you been to Scotland? Message me on Instagram and let me know your favorite place. I always love hearing new tips. Also, why not screenshot this episode if you are out walking around, take a little screenshot and share it in your Instagram stories. I would love to know

that you are listening. All right, that's all for now. Go ahead and follow the show or hit subscribe so you can hear more episodes like this. And if you would like my help achieving more peace, happiness and positive transformation in your life, visit sarahmicatel.com. Thank you so much for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahmicatel.com slash blank no more.