Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Move to Panama: Expat Guide on Visas, Healthcare, and Learning Spanish

Episode Date: October 4, 2020

You know those screensavers that look like paradise? Almost too beautiful to be real?That’s how my guest today describes the beaches of Panama, the Central American country he’s called home for the last 11 years.Like me, David Gold is a native of Connecticut, but left to join the Peace Corps in Bolivia and eventually made his way to Panama City, where he opened Casco Antiguo Spanish School.In this episode, David shares advice on how we can become expats ourselves in Panama.If you value year-round great weather, quality of life, and affordable healthcare, you’re in luck — Panama is a very visa-friendly country, with tons of extra benefits for people who retire there.postcardacademy.co***Hey, there! I'm your host Sarah Mikutel, an American who's been living abroad since 2010. Right now I live in a beach town in England and I love helping fellow expats and online entrepreneurs launch their own podcasts. Interested? Find out more here 👉sarahmikutel.comDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

You know those screensavers that look like paradise, almost too beautiful to be real? Well, that is how today's guest describes the beaches of Panama, the Central American country he's called home for the last 11 years. Like me, David Gold is a native of Connecticut, but he left to join the Peace Corps in Bolivia and eventually made his way to Panama City, where he opened Casco Antiguo Spanish School. In this episode, David shares advice on how we can become expats ourselves in Panama. If you value year-round great weather, quality of life, affordable health care, then you are in luck. Panama is a very visa-friendly country with tons of extra benefits for people who retire there. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Postcard Academy, a show about travel, living abroad, and location independence for people seeking a more meaningful, freedom-fueled life.

I'm your host, Sarah Micahettel, an American who first moved abroad on her own at age 18 and who has been permanently enjoying life in Europe. since 2010. I am so glad you're here. My guests and I will share with you how we made our travel, living abroad, and location independent dreams come true and how you can too, because you will never have this day again. Make it matter. Welcome, David. Thank you so much for joining me today. My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Where are you from, and how did you end up in Panama? Originally from Connecticut outside New York City, and I came to Panama on vacation about 11 years ago now. I had a backpack. I was actually on a trip to Colombia and Ecuador, like a two-week trip, and on a whim, came to Panama to visit a friend and stayed. It was 11 years ago.

And you were in the Peace Corps before then, right? Exactly, yeah. So I did the Peace Corps in Bolivia. So I did a backpacking trip all the way from Bolivia, the plan to go up to New York by land, which is impossible basically because there's no land bridge between Panama and Colombia. So I ended up getting made it all the way up to Panama by boat from Columbia. I met friends here, ended up getting on a sailboat, tried to sail to Australia, got off in the Galapagos, came a long story. But I ended up meeting friends in Panama. I moved back to New York City. I was living on my dad's couch, you know, tempting, working at jobs I didn't want,

and ended up on a whim going back on the South America trip. And, you know, this two-week trip that turned into 11 years, basically. What an incredible adventure. I love it. So for anyone who's moving to Panama, what is perhaps like something that surprises them or maybe a cultural difference that they're like, oh, I didn't expect this? I think people are surprised a lot by the skyline. line. So, I mean, it's a huge. Panama has, I think of the 25 tallest buildings in Latin America. I think it has 15 or 20 of them. So it's a huge. There's a lot of really big buildings. It looks like a very modern city. But what I love is that you have that, you know, that gritty kind of you have like a really fancy mall, you know, with everything nice and comfortable and clean. And then you have like, you know, the market's out on the street, Avenue Centra, which is near where we are.

in Casco Viejo, you know, everyone's, all the shops are out in the street, there's the fruit vendors and the people selling, you know, herbs and things, tinctures and things that will, you know, cure diseases and whatnot, you know, like, it has a really, you know, authentic kind of feel to it. And for me, Panama is such a small country and it's all coast. So you only need to drive, you know, 30 minutes from the city and you're, you're at the beach or you're in the mountains, you're in the rainforest. So the nature is just spectacular and there aren't a lot of people here. So when you do leave the city, you feel like you're out in the middle of nowhere, which is amazing. So you own a Spanish school down there, right?

I do. Casco Antigua Spanish School, which is in Panama City. It's in the old town of Panama City, a beautiful colonial area. And I've had that now for almost eight years. That's a pretty ambitious project to start as like a foreigner in a new country, starting a new business. Could you talk me through your business journey? Yeah, of course. So this wasn't, this was actually the fourth business. I started in Panama. The first three failed miserably, but they really kind of led me to where I am now with

the Spanish school. So initially I came to Panama. I started teaching English because I think that's kind of like the go-to for expats. If you don't have a backup plan, it's like, well, I speak English well, and, you know, I can think. So I got a job actually teaching English for another company. It was actually Kaplan, who was like the test prep company. And they had hired me to do some. some teaching for them. And it was at Dell at the computer company teaching their representatives. And so I was doing that course with them. And I realized, this isn't rocket science. I was, I created the course for them. I was teaching it. I was like, I could do this. So I decided I'll open up in English school. Of course. Yeah. So I had a friend who had a space,

so basically the lobby of his building. And I was able to convert it, basically just putting one wall, an air conditioner, and a whiteboard on the wall. It was a thousand dollar investment. I was able to start New York English, which was English for the people, which was like the slogan, English by the hente. And the idea was that every taxi driver, waiter, at everyone who, you know, has five bucks in their pocket, wants to learn English. I hear it all the time. Oh, teach me English, teach me English. So I say, well, if I get a big enough group together of these people, then I can make money. But that business failed miserably. Unfortunately, you really needed a lot of people in each group at the same time for the numbers to make sense. And at the end of the day, I realized

I was doing a lot more work with a lot more risk and making a lot less money than if I had just gotten a job teaching English elsewhere. So New York English for the people didn't really work as a business. But I was approached the second, I said iteration or second business would be like English for businesses. So I was approached by a hotel developer to teach their staff English. And I said, okay, great. Well, I have, there's six levels and each one is two months. And then in a certain amount of time, you know, a year, they'll speak English. He's like, no, no, no. I just need them to know. Fork, knife, spoon, napkin, would you like another whiskey? How would you like your steak cooked? Can you teach them just that? Of course. Of course. You know, like absolutely, English for

restaurant staff. Done. So basically, as I was teaching it, you know, the day before I'd have the class, I'd, you know, I would create the material and we'd teach it. And I kind of learned as I went, you know, fake it to you make it, teaching restaurant staff and hotel staff, ended up meeting one of the biggest hotel owners in the country at a party and ended up, you know, he introducing me to his people and other people. So at one point, I was teaching hundreds of waiters and housekeepers English every year in Panama. Wow. Well, and that's an incredible story.

And also, thanks for sharing about your failed. businesses because I think a lot of people would like try something. It doesn't work and they're like, I'm bad at business. I'm going back to America where a lot of people, their first businesses, don't work out. And I think you just save people like $500 on a business course by saying, you know, create the business where one, people can actually pay for it. And two, a lot of us start out creating all these things on our own when it's not exactly what they need. So I think that you demonstrated that perfectly. Thank you. I think it's important. I always tell people to try to fail quickly and cheaply. So try to get that proof of constant of minimal viable product or something out there

that people can can either buy or not buy or be interested or not interested. It doesn't matter if you actually have it fully fleshed out or not. But if no one's interested in what you're selling, then that's probably not a good thing to be selling. So tell me more about your school. And I imagine you've been hit a bit by COVID. So what's going? on there. So Panama had one of the strictest lockdowns in the world for COVID. So it really just shut down basically the entire economy. Men could only go out on Tuesdays and Thursdays for two hours a day. And women could only go out on Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. And then weekends were total lockdown. So it was really strong lockdown. And it worked initially for COVID. But now things

are slowly starting to open back up. But the school's been closed physically since March of this year. mid-March, but we've been able to transition pretty seamlessly online. So we have group classes and private classes running all on Zoom and our teachers are all working from home. And at the beginning, really from the beginning, we started funneling almost 100% of the money right back to the teachers because obviously a lot of our groups and trips, we have lots of school groups coming down and businesses organizing language training for their staff. All that's been kind of put on pause. So we do have less students, but we all have students from all over the world now, which is amazing. Students who've taken courses who've gone back to their countries are now able to continue studying with their favorite teachers.

So there is definitely a silver lining to it. So can you tell us how we can learn Spanish through your school? And I'm not sure if you've mentioned your school's name yet. So if you could tell us that. Thanks for asking. Yeah, it's Costco Antiguo Spanish School. It's Costco C-A-S-C-O, which means helmet in Spanish. Costco Spanish.com.

So is the website, and there's all the information on the courses. You can try a free class. We offer a free 45-minute one-on-one class with one of our teachers. You take a placement test, figure out your level. The teacher in the first class is also doing a diagnostic, figuring out how you learn best, and you get a good sense for if that teacher is a good fit for you. And if you like the classes, and then from there, you can decide to either sign up for a group class or private lessons. and we take it from there.

Well, I think it's a great idea for even in Nod COVID times to maybe practice a little bit of the language if you plan on moving somewhere like Panama and you're going to tell us in a little bit all of the amazing reasons why we might want to move to Panama. But in happier times, I think your school offers some like unique opportunities to practice the language outside of the classrooms. So can you just talk about like what a normal day would look like at your school? Of course. So most students are in our intensive program, which is four hours a day of class, which sounds pretty daunting to be sitting in a classroom for four hours a day. The good thing is most of the time you're not. So most days you'll be getting out of the classroom and practicing in real life situations. So even if it's the first day where you're not, you're not learning the alphabet and the colors because you can't do anything with the alphabet in the colors. The first day

you're learning to introduce yourself, say where you're from, where how old are, all these things. And so you'll learn these first basic phrases and we'll kind of push you out and you'll talk to the guy selling Panama hats across the street. And you'll ask him, where is he from? How old is he? How many? This guy's used to being bothered by our students. We buy lots of Panama hats from him. But we really try, even if it's if it's more complex, it's going to the markets, if it's going to a cultural activity. I mean, the neighborhood we're in is full of all museums, art galleries and different cultural offerings. So we try to take students out and put them in real situations that would apply to them. People are, you know, preparing presentations. We have breaks.

So there's like a 15, 20-minute break in the middle where everyone, all the groups, regardless of levels, are all in the back patio, chatting, drinking coffee, meeting each other. So that would be the morning, you know, say 8 to 12. You're in that group. You'd break for lunch. And then our teachers are in other classes, usually private lessons in the afternoons. But a lot of our students will stay around in the area because we do. do offer volunteer placements. So there's a couple after-school programs, some that work with

art and dance, some that to help their kids with homework and do sports that are in the area. So we'll often organize volunteer placements for students in local after-school programs, nonprofits, which is a really good way for people to practice their Spanish and ideally share a skill, give back while they're here. And then in the evenings, every afternoon at five, at the school, we have a free social activity. So Tuesday, is happy hour where we go to a rooftop bar. We find alcohol helps people speak Spanish a little bit better, you know, lowers inhibitions.

And then Wednesday, we have a salsa teacher come to the school. In the back patio, we have a salsa class. Thursdays, we have a sunset bike ride. And Friday, we play beach volleyball. So I think, depending on the person, everyone has their favorite. But personally, my favorite is the sunset bike tour because we bike at something called the Sinta Costera, which goes around Casco Viejo. It's like a viaduct along the water. And it's beautiful as views of the skyline and the old city. And because Panama is almost on the

equator, the sun sets between, you know, 615 and 630 all year long. So basically we can guarantee a sunset every, every bike tour. Every sunset bike tour, you will get a sunset. Oh, that sounds ideal. I love the way that you've set up the classes. It sounds quite practical, like to help you actually start living in Panama and talking to the people. Do you think your original experience teaching the weight staff influenced your teaching style in the school you have now? A bit. So the weight staff, their goal, I mean, obviously is they have immediate needs and their own,

their bosses were really only interested in them being able to meet those needs. They weren't, they didn't want them to talk about the weather or their interest. They wanted them just to be able to serve the. client best, but our students are, you know, run the gamut. So we have a lot of people who are just traveling and they'll come in for a few weeks, take a couple weeks of course and then continue on their trip around Central South America or people who, you know, just coming from the States or Europe just for the course and then go back. But a lot of our students are that, are our expats who relocate to Panama and will be here for a few years for work. So they really

need to be functional in the language and they want to meet friends and they want to be able to, you know, get out and learn. So, I mean, everyone's goals are different, but we try to get people the tools to be able to really communicate. Some people do just want to talk to a taxi driver, the Uber driver, and they're made or the supermarket clerk. But a lot of them do want to create friendships in Spanish and meet locals and kind of get out and explore. So it's kind of something for everyone. This episode is sponsored by me or rather by my online course, Podcast Launch Academy. You are a podcast lover and thank you so much for being.

here, but I was wondering, have you ever thought about creating a podcast yourself? Well, visit sarahmicatel.com to learn how we can work together and to take the podcast personality quiz. What advice do you have for somebody who's just moving to Panama and perhaps Panama City specifically to get their bearings? Maybe they're not even sure they're going to stay, but they want to sort of test it out. is there an Airbnb? What would you recommend for that? So there are Airbnbs. I think technically they're illegal, but they're everywhere. So should have no problem finding an Airbnb now. So I would say definitely, obviously, rent an apartment so you can get a sense of the neighborhood you're in. I personally recommend Casco Viejo, but there's also a lot of other great neighborhoods in the city. Maybe San Francisco is a neighborhood in the Panama City or El Congrejo.

but yeah, kind of create a home base, arrive. Obviously, I'd say learn Spanish. I mean, we're, even for people who do speak a fair amount, the Spanish in Panama is influenced by the Caribbean, so there's a little bit different slang and words. And so even if you are pretty confident, helpful to take a little refresh, but to get out and to meet people and explore the city.

So I think for us, the school is often that people, We get a lot of international teachers, for example, like the international schools, they'll just arrive and they'll be starting school in August, and they'll come a month early and do some Spanish, meet other students. A lot of people, I find they meet their friends that lasts for years in that initial couple weeks at the school. What other tips would I have for people? So there's a subway system, which is great. Definitely check that out. The Uber is by far the better and safer way to get around the city than taxis because there are no taxi meters. So a taxi that should cost two or three dollars will may cost you 10 or 20 because, you know, there's a gringo tax and they know you don't know. And then even if you do know that it should be three, I mean, you're going to be fighting on the street with this taxi driver. So it's definitely much easier and safer to use Uber to get around. It sounds like Panama is quite an easy place to assimilate to. I heard that there was really good health care there.

Yeah, there is. So there's a Johns Hopkins affiliate. at hospital and there's like four or five big, nice modern hospitals, which are relatively cheap. So, I mean, I have insurance now, but I've gone into the hospital without it and I think paid, I don't know, $75 at the emergency room or something very affordable. Knowing them in the States, it's, you know, thousands just to walk in the door usually. Yeah, for sure. And I heard that Panama was excellent for retirees.

There's actually a bunch of benefits that you can get, like discounts in a bunch of stuff if you retire in Panama? Yeah, so there's a special retirement visa for Panama called the Hubi Lala, which means just retirement, a Hube Lava visa. And it's, I think you get like 50% off airplane tickets and like 20% off food. And there's all kinds of discounts and benefits. You're allowed to import all of your furniture and a car and all these things. So they definitely do promote that as a retirement destination. And there's a couple places, not so much in Panama City, because it's a big, modern, and it's a more expensive place to live than, you know, the rural communities outside or at the beaches, I think. So a lot of people will either go to the beaches about an hour or two

from the city. There's an area called Coronado, which is an hour without traffic and two with traffic. So don't go on Friday afternoon when everyone's fleeing to the beach. But that's a beautiful area on the Pacific where a lot of retirees end up. And the other area would be Bokete up in the mountains, which has this beautiful climate. It's at the base of a voluble. It's a volcano, it's a little bit cooler. It's probably in the 70s, Fahrenheit or 20s Celsius, where, you know, this kind of perfect weather up on the volcano and then only, I don't know, maybe an hour or two drive down to the beach from there. And so how are people of working age able to stay in Panama if they're not from there? How were you able to stay? Well, I started

the business. Oh, what do you mean? Oh, in terms of, oh, getting a visa, you mean? Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's also very easy to, Panama has something called the Friendly Nations Visa, which if you're from, I think it's 50 countries, basically. So it's Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand, and a whole bunch of other countries. You qualify for a friendly nation's visa, which has pretty lax requirements. One of them is to open a bank account and put $5,000 in it. That $5,000 doesn't need to stay there. It has to be there for like one day, so you could literally put in $5,000. $5,000, print out the receipt that there's $5,000 and like take it out the next day if you wanted to. But there's a couple of requirements for that, but it's pretty straightforward. I think you need, you know, bank references and I think maybe a university degree, maybe not. I think it's pretty, pretty easy. I did it kind of backwards. I came and was a kind of perpetual tourist for a while.

I think they've since cracked down on that a little bit before you could stay six months, you know, cross the border to Costa Rica for a day and then come back for another six months and do that indefinitely. I think on those Costa Rica border runs, they're a little more strict now, you know, if you're just going back and forth. But there is really nothing. I think it's still six months to come down at a time. And there's nothing stopping you from coming for six months, getting on a plane, you know, going home or going wherever for a few days and then coming back for another six months. So I think at the beginning, I'd recommend that certainly for the first couple months before you start an expensive visa process. So I think it's about $2,000 to $3,000 in total to get permanent residency in Panama, if you're a friendly nation's, which is, I think, comparatively very cheap compared to other countries. I've never gotten permanent residency elsewhere. Well, and just it sounds like logistically much, much easier.

Yeah. Another benefit that I mentioned is Panama's on the U.S. dollar. So it's technically the currency is called the Balboa, but the Balboa doesn't exist. There are only coins, you know, quarters and nickels and dimes. but the bills are all U.S. dollars and the banks are all in dollars. So it makes it easy in terms if you're earning money here or spending money here, there's no conversion. It's easy. The banking system's pretty well established. So it's easy to send money back and forth to the States or Europe or elsewhere. What's the bureaucracy like? Is it difficult to start a bank account and things like

that? Things were pretty easy. I mean, in Panama, it's a lot of like, I guess who you know. So like I walked into the bank and at the time I was HSBC, which I think was bought by another bank, but because I had an HSBC account in college, I was like, well, I have HSBC in Canada where I went to school. So I bought them a statement or something from my old bank and they were able to take that and like, oh, okay. I was able to open an account pretty easily. But now I think it's a lot of, you know, introductions from lawyers. So usually the same lawyer who's helping you do the visa will like write a letter and say, I vouch for this person, and then you'd be able to open up an account with a letter. So it's pretty easy setting up the bank and things like that. The business itself

was very easy to set up at the beginning. I've since set up a company and put a more, not complicated, but like well-established structure in place where it's an actual corporation and I'm not the business. But initially it was just David Gold operating as New York English. So I was able to go online and get a business license at the time was $15. And I just printed it out from my computer and stuck it on the wall. And I was open for business. So that was the name of your first iteration of your school, New York English. Yeah, New York English was the English for everyone.

Okay. What are most expats doing there? Is there a lot of remote work? Are there a lot of global companies? Yeah. So it is the, there are, it's actually a lot of both. So there are a lot of companies that have their headquarters in Panama, a lot of big multinational companies, Procter & Gamble, Unilever, Dell, I don't know, Adidas, Reebok, Nike, Ralph Lauren.

So a lot of big companies have their regional Latin America and headquarters in Panama, I guess, for tax reasons, among others. So a lot of them run the back office like marketing, finance, and things from Panama. So if you have, you know, skills in those areas, there's lots of big companies. companies you could apply to work for. Those jobs are obviously competitive as they would be anywhere working for a big multinational company. And then a lot of people come down. They will, you know, teach English or find some local work. There's a lot of international schools as well. So if there are teachers, a lot of them require, you know, teaching degrees. And then the other is remote work.

So, you know, there's really good internet in Panama and, you know, people who can work from anywhere, Panama is just good a place as any to, you know, open up a laptop and, and if you can work, you I say it's marketing or online or podcasting. You can do that anywhere, right? Amazing. Is there like a co-working culture there? Yeah, absolutely. So there's an emerging co-working culture.

I mean, definitely in our neighborhood in Costco, there's been one around for about 10 years, and then there's two more that popped up in the neighborhood. And I know downtown, there's a lot. I mean, there's more and more people regardless of their work, work online, and can work remotely out of offices. there's even companies, you know, moving into co-workers instead of out of a traditional office. So there's definitely that. And a lot of, you know, coffee shops, people who work from, you know, coffee shop to coffee shop and cafe and whatnot. That sounds like my life right now. Is Panama a pretty walkable city?

Because of the heat, yes and no, it's really nice to walk at like five, four, you know, once the sun is getting down. But because of the heat, and we are close to equator, it's other than the neighborhoods themselves. So you'd walk within Costco, Viejo, and you'd walk within, you'd walk within. you know, El Cangrejo, so within certain neighborhoods, it's definitely nice to walk, but because the neighborhoods are a little spread out, I'd say better to, you know, Uber or to take the metro. Is there a great time of year to go? January to April is the dry season, so it never rains and it's beautiful sunshine. And the rest of the year, it's usually beautiful sunshine, and then we'll get really dark and cloudy.

We'll rain for about an hour a day, and then we'll get nice again. So I wouldn't be afraid. People check the weather in Panama. It's going to rain every day for the next five months, if it might. but it won't rain all day. It'll rain for like an hour. So I would say all years a good time to go. In the next episode, David is going to give us a deep dive on everything we need to eat, drink, and experience in Panama. You'll discover the best beaches, the best coffee, the best rooftop bars. You are not going to want to miss it. If you are interested in Panama and want to start brushing up on your Spanish now, maybe you've been talking about learning Spanish for a few years now,

You heard David mention in this episode that Costco Antiguo Spanish School is offering courses online, and I will include the link for that in the show notes at postcardacademy.com. If you liked this episode, please share the podcast with a friend that is the best way to grow the show. That's all for now. Thanks so much for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas, that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahygoteel.com slash blank no more.