Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Panama: Ultimate Travel Guide

Episode Date: October 10, 2020

In the last episode of the Postcard Academy, you learned how to become an expat in Panama. In this episode, you’ll learn why.David Gold is back to share what’s kept him in Panama City for more than a decade. Coffee, chocolate, and beach lover’s…this one’s for you. You’ll also learn about Panama’s history, including the infamous canal.You’ve heard of the Panama Canal, but do you know why it matters? You will after this episode. You'll also hear about everything you need to eat, drink, and do in Panama City and beyond.OK, time for our tour of Panama.postcardacademy.co***Hi, I'm your host, Sarah Mikutel, an American expat based in England. Fancy starting your own podcast? Visit sarahmikutel.com to learn how I can help you. I'm on Insta if you want to say hi.Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

In the last episode, you learned how to become an expat in Panama. In this episode, you will learn why. David Gold is back to share what's kept him there for more than a decade. Coffee, chocolate, beach lovers, this one is for you. You will learn all about Panama's history, including the infamous canal. So you probably heard about the Panama Canal, right? But do you know exactly what it is for, like, why does it matter so much? Well, you will understand it after this episode. And you'll also discover the restaurant that you need to eat at when you are visiting the canal, which is open to tourists. Okay, time for our tour of Panama. Welcome to the Postcard Academy, a show about travel, living abroad, and location independence for people seeking a more meaningful, freedom-fueled life.

I'm your host, Sarah Mike Citell, an American who first moved abroad on her own at age 18, and who has been permanently enjoying life in Europe since 2010. I am so glad you're here. My guests and I will share with you how we made our travel, living abroad, and location independent dreams come true and how you can too, because you will never have this day again. Make it matter. All right. Well, I would love to dive into some more of Panama. So could you give us a visual snapshot of Panama?

What does the postcard look like when people think of that country? I think the postcard is of the canal. I mean, definitely the number one, you know, most visited place in Panama is the canal. So it's, you know, if you haven't even heard of the country, you've heard of the canal. That's probably all in the postcard. But as a resident, what I think of is Casco Viejo, is the old town, which looks, I don't know if you've been to old San Juan in Puerto Rico or Cartagena in Colombia. I've been there, yeah. It's like old colonial city, you know, walled city.

Costco Viejo was initially a walled city and then they knocked down. the wall, but it's, it's got a strong French influence as well because the French were there to build the canal initially. And so it has like, almost like a New Orleans, it's a Spanish colonial vibe. And then there's some, you know, art deco architecture in there. And then some, it's just kind of a mix, a hodgepodge, but it's, you know, beautiful, you know, bricks on the street and ocean view everywhere. And then from Costco Viejo, which is the old town, which is really a small neighborhood, three or four blocks by maybe 10 blocks. So very small. From there, you have a pedestrian street, which is like, I'd say, like, in quotes, real Panama, which is Avenue Central. And that's

where the metro is. And that's where all the main shopping is. And then from there, that kind of connects it to the downtown, which is, you know, huge high rises, 50, 60-story buildings along the water, and then the downtown banking district. So it's kind of, it's a nice mix between, you know, old and new and all of it's right on the Pacific on the water. So it's, you know, very picturesque. The old town, I guess, because for hundreds of years, the Spanish had occupied Panama. So you've got the ruins of those buildings or those buildings. And then you mentioned the French coming over to work on the canal.

So could you talk like a little bit about Panamanian history? And also, you're right, like, everyone knows, has heard of the Panama Canal, but I don't think most people know what exactly that means or what its significance is. So could you just talk us through that? Of course. So Panama, the history basically started with the Spanish coming there. At one point, half of all of the gold in the world passed through Panama. So as you know, the Spanish, we're all in South America and most of the gold is coming from, you know, Peru and Bolivia and down there. And they, They would ship it up to Panama to the coast. And Panama's on the Pacific, the city. So it would come up to up to the Pacific. And they would cross it by land because Panama is the land bridge. It's like between Central and South America, that tiny little country that connects the two.

They would cross it by land and by, you know, rivers to get to the Caribbean side. They'd put it back on ships in the Caribbean and they'd ship it over to Spain. So there's actually a lot of pirate activity in Panama because all of that goal, this coming is around the area. So there's a history of the cities being attacked and sacked by Captain Morgan, the guy from the rum. So the first Panama city was actually sacked by him and his guys, and they rebuilt it to where Casco Viejo is now. So that was actually the second city of Panama. So Casco Viejo, some of the original pieces, the original church and things were moved, you know, stone by stone. So it was, yeah, it was originally the, the

Spanish, obviously there's a big indigenous population, which actually still exists, unlike other places in the Caribbean, for example, where the indigenous population was totally wiped out. In Panama, there's still three large indigenous groups. There's the Nobe, which live up in the mountains, closer to Costa Rica. Then there's the Embara, which live in the rivers close to Colombia. And there are Embara that live in Colombia as well. And then there's the Kunah, the Guna. which live on the islands called Samblas, which is Guineas.

So they have their own indigenous provinces. They have their own laws, their own languages. Obviously, you have the Spanish influence, so the Spanish were around. And then you have the French influence. So they came to build a canal in the late 1800s, and there was a huge, you know, the idea was basically to cut, you know, they cut a path for ships to go from one ocean to the other so they don't have to go all the way around South America.

So they were literally. cutting the country in half? They're literally country. Yeah. So they're like, well, if the canals only, I don't know, 100 feet wide or a thousand feet wide, so it's not a huge area. They tried to basically dam a bunch of rivers and create lakes. It's basically there was a lake in the middle and they dammed a bunch of rivers to make it the water higher. Then they had to literally like cut through the rock so that ships would pass through. You'd think they would just basically like cut one one pass through and then it'd just be water, you know, like a little stream in the water. People would pass through, but there's actually a difference in the level of the two oceans. So sea level

at the Caribbean and sea level of the Pacific is different. And for whatever geological reasons, they have to do a system of locks. So basically, the ships go through. They close these doors, and then they pump a bunch of water in there. And it like raises the whole ship up. Then they open the door. And then they're on like a higher level in the lake. And then they go through the lake. And then they close the doors and they pump the water out. They go down, almost like an elevator and they open the doors and they go back out onto the Caribbean. Wow. That's so interesting. The basic idea. But at the time, it was a huge engineering feat. I still think it's one of the biggest undertakings engineering-wise in the world. And they, the French had a lot

of problems. So they had labor. They imported a ton of labor. And this is actually one of the the third biggest groups in Panama after the indigenous and then the people who came from Spain would be the Afro-Caribbean population. So a lot of people. People came former slaves from Barbados and from Jamaica and other Caribbean countries to build the canal. And they were brought in, you know, promised, you know, however many dollars a day and this and whatever. And the working conditions were not great. And I'm not sure they, you know, thrived, but they survived and they sent money back and they brought their families and they started families here. And there's still a big Afro-Cribian population, mostly on the Caribbean coast.

So Cologne is the city on the Caribbean side of the canal. Panama City, right, sorry, is the city on the Pacific side of the canal. And then on the opposite side, there was Cologne, which in the 1920s, I think, was a boomtown. There was so much money coming in with a canal. And it was people who were dressed all fancy and suits and whatnot. But since then, Cologne is not a great place to visit, even though the beaches in the Caribbean are very nice. So sorry, but to go back to a little bit of the history, the French came. They were building the canal.

At the time, Panama was part of Colombia. So there was something called La Grande Colombia, and Panama and Colombia were part of the same country. Panama had its independence, or Colombia, rather, had its independence from Spain. So Colombia was an independent country, Panama being just one of the provinces of it, while the French were doing the canal. And the French project failed was basically going bankrupt.

I think thousands, if not hundreds, of French workers had died of yellow fever and malaria. Yeah, there's a whole French cemetery in Panama. And that's when the Americans showed up and said, we can take over. So there was the idea of America, not a private company, but the American government coming in and taking over the canal and building the project. And basically the Americans backed a revolution in Panama to basically the Americans negotiated the separation and backed the separation of Panama from Colombia. So I'd say the U.S. created the country of Panama as we know it.

And once they got their independence, they stayed and they say, actually, we're going to stay and we're going to keep the canal. And I knew they didn't really have it. So the U.S. basically took what is now, it's now no longer exists, but was the canal zone for about 100 years. So basically on either side of what is the canal, the U.S. kept that. Yeah, I think I read that the U.S. gave it back in 1999, or that was the agreement anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So in 1979, Jimmy Carter and Omar Tarihos, who was the president of Panama, they signed it in, agreement to give the canal back to Panama. And then there was a 20-year transition period until

1999. So midnight, you know, in 1999, it came back to Panamanian hands. And if you look at the economy of Panama since then, it's just basically skyrocketed. So they, all these prime real estate came back into Panama lands, all the money, the ships that go through the canal, some of them now, there's a new canal, an expanded canal that they recently finished. Those ships pay up to a million dollars to go through the canal. And the old canal, they pay, I don't know, $300,000 or $400,000 to go through. So the calculation is based by weight and volume and value of goods or something, but they have a crazy calculation and they say it's, you know, $300,000 to pass through and the ships pay because the option is going all the way around South America and spending another, I don't know how many

weeks and, you know, more money and they know that it's worth it. They know that you're going to pay because the option is worse. Well, good for you, Panama, for breaking free and skyrocketing your economy. And it's a tourist destination still, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So the canal is a visitor center. There's actually a great restaurant, especially one of my favorite restaurants in the country, and I always take people who are visiting to go there right on the Pacific. I think it's called Atlantic and Pacific because it's obviously the canal connects the two. And it looks over, has this beautiful balcony overlooking the canal. You see the huge ships coming through the locks. You can see exactly how it works. And it's kind of a private show of this modern marvel of

engineering. And the food's really good too. So it's kind of like a secret spot in the canal. The canal museum, I think you have to pay $20 to get in to see. And it's definitely worth it. But if you don't have the time, you can actually go at night and you don't have to pay the entrance into the museum. And you can just have a nice little dinner on the balcony overlooking the canal. And what was the name of that? What's the name of? Atlantic Pacific. Okay. Atlantic Pacific. And it's, yeah, really good food right over the canal. It's the only restaurant at the canal. Very cool. So what are some other must-have experiences we should do in Panama? So I mentioned briefly the Kuna, one of the indigenous groups that lives on these islands between

Panama and Colombia. But the Caribbean coast in Panama is very wild and undeveloped. So I would say go to the San Blas Islands. Definitely one of my can't miss trips. It's about a two-hour drive and a four-wheel drive car from Panama City to the coast. You go basically over, up and over and down a mountain range. So if you're sensitive stomach, I recommend taking tremamine or something for your stomach before trying to sit up front in the SUV. I've been in cars that they've had to pull over, but it is well worth it. Once you get to the coast, you hop on a little speedboat and you go to these islands. There's 365 islands the size of, you know, a football field. And you can walk around them most of the islands in five minutes.

And the biggest island you can walk around in, you know, 15 minutes or something. But it's beautiful, crystal clear water. It's like the Windows 95 screensaver. You know, just island, palm tree, it looks like a Corona beer commercial. And it's just, you know, beautiful. And it's indigenous province. So the Kuna have this beautiful culture of a matriarchy. women wear this very elaborate dress. They have these things called molas, which are hand-woven,

and they wear them around their chest, and then they wrap their legs and beads, and they wear headdresses sometimes and earrings. And the men kind of dress in normal clothes. So it's interesting because it is very much a matriarchy. So like the land and the names and everything passes through the women. And you can tell the women, you know, you know, the men are doing a lot of the work. They're driving the boats and they're doing, you know, the fishing and whatnot, but women, the women are the ones who are, you know, controlling the money. So usually when you go pay, you stay on the island and you might pay, I don't know, $200 for the weekend, including the boat and the food and the car and everything. Usually pay that to the women. That's so cool. So where would

we stay if we made it all the way up there? So it's these little huts on the beach. Usually you'd get your own little private, like, shack on the beach. It's very basic accommodations. Some of them have private bathrooms. There are these like above water bungalows. So if you have a little higher budget, you can stay in these nicer places. But I would say lower your expectations in terms of the comfort. They are on an island. It's very basic, but it's, you know, they pull out lobster and fresh fish. And so the food is, is usually very good, very fresh. But you're coming for the experience to be in the middle of nowhere. I mean, it's just little island after little island and amazing snorkeling and crystal clear water and hammocks and books and, you know, time kind of stops when you're out there because

there's nothing to do except, you know, take a swim, lay in the hammock, you know, talk to the locals, you know, play soccer with a kid. So it really is, I think, a special place and unique in the world. I don't know anywhere. I've been a lot of places. I've never been anywhere like the San Blas Islands. Yeah, for sure. And I heard there are chocolate plantations as well. There are.

So that's in Bocas. So Bocas, I guess, three main tourist destinations of Panama. So Panama City being where most people arrive and we'll start their trip. And there's a lot of direct flights from Europe and the U.S. So a lot of people will start their trips in Panama City. And then another of the big destinations is Bokas del Toro, which is another group of islands in the Caribbean near Costa Rica, which is also very beautiful. And that's where the chocolate plantations are. There's some amazing chocolate there.

And you can visit a cow plantation rather and see how it's made. And then there's another area called Bokete, where that's a lot. where the retirees are, and that's at the base of the volcano. That's also closer to Costa Rica, maybe a six-hour drive or seven-hour drive from Panama City, but there's also a one-hour flight you can hop on. And that's where all the coffee is. That's the best coffee in the world. Literally, they win every competition for the most expensive coffee. I think it's over $1,000 a pound. It's something called Geisha, and that always comes from Panama. But even the normal $8 a pound, you know, normal stuff is amazing. So next to my house,

actually in Casco Viejo where I live, there's a cafe called Bahadeke, and they own their plantation. So it's totally vertically integrated. They bring the coffee from the plantation. They roast it right next to my house. And most of what they, I think, make is exported and goes to, you know, Japan for $50 a cup. But that's where I buy my coffee. And it's just amazing. This episode is sponsored by me or rather by my online course, Podcast Launch Academy. You are a podcast lover and thank you so much for being here. But I was wondering, have you ever thought about creating a podcast yourself? Well, visit sarahigatel.com to learn how we can work together and to take the podcast personality quiz.

Let's say I was visiting you for the weekend. What would we do? So we're starting out having coffee there. We have coffee at Bahareka. We might have a breakfast sandwich at the Super Gourmet, which is run by an American guy. I think from Mississippi and, you know, breakfast sandwich and, you know, a little bit of taste of home before we used, you know, dunk into Panamanian culture. I would take you for the weekend in Panama City.

I take you up Cerro Encon, which is the, there's a big mountain in the middle of Panama City, which is original growth, rainforest, and overlooks the kind of the whole city. So if you're up for the hike, you know, park at the bottom and we'd hike up the hill for for a half hour, check out the view of the city, get a bit of lay of the land, and then come back down. And then I'd probably take you to the causeway, which was, there's three islands at the mouth of the canal. That area is called, actually nearby is called La Boka, which means the mouth. And the causeway is this little strip of land that has, it's right on the canal and then

overlooks the entire, you know, skyline of Panama City. So we might go for a bike ride on the causeway to kind of check out the lay of the land there. and then in the evening I definitely say Costco Viejo. I mean, we'd probably go on a bar call. We'd go for dinner maybe on a rooftop. And then we'd go, you know, there's probably 30 different bars in the neighborhood. So we'd just go one to one to one, maybe, you know, shots here and a drink there, some salsa dancing there. I definitely go around Costco Bayho and just kind of explore.

I mean, the best way is just to get lost. It's just, you know, see where people are going. There's a lot of new rooftops and kind of underground, hidden music venues and whatnot. So it sounds like a really cool neighborhood. I think I've heard you say, though, that it's definitely become a lot, I guess, safer over the recent years. Yeah. So it had a reputation as being not safe at all, like 20 or 30 years ago. So it basically has gone through this crazy restoration process where there's actually like non-profits that have come in.

and work with the former gang members and offer, you know, help them create their own businesses. There's actually a tour, which is really interesting called the Chorayu experience. And that's where like the former gang members will walk you around the neighborhood, which is, I think, pretty unique. But yeah, the neighborhood is basically done at 180 completely. I mean, it's now it's 2 o'clock, 3 o'clock in the morning. I walk around and, you know, not thinking about, you know, safety at all. And I think before, if you talk to a Panaman who's over 50 or 60, they'd say, yeah, don't, don't go there.

Very cool. Well, it definitely sounds like the place to be now. Yeah. What are some foods that we need to try when we're in Panama? I'd say Ceviche, for sure. I know a lot of countries claim it to be theirs, but Panama and Cevice is very good. And there's a local fish market where you get fresh fish coming from both oceans. So it's one of the few places in the world, maybe the only word fresh fish comes in from the Caribbean. and from the Pacific. So you have, you know, giant crab and lobster and other things coming in from the Caribbean, and then you have, like, tuna and Mahi-Mahi and other things coming in from the Pacific.

So it's, I'd say go to the fish market and either get a whole fried fish or get some saviche. There's probably like 10 or 15 different types you can try. I usually get the mixed one because it has kind of a little bit of everything in it. So I'd say saviche, there's also something called Sankocha, which is like chicken soup, but it's. It's amazing. It's got all kinds of different root vegetables you've never heard of and chicken, and it's definitely a whole meal. Usually they serve it with rice on the side. So I'd say Sancocho and Covete would be my two go-to foods. And what about for the vegetarians? Do they have any options? That's a good question. There's patacones. So like plantains are a big staple in the

countries, the yucca and plantains. I would definitely say try the yucca and the plantains. They basically fry. They cut the plantain up. They fry it. They smash it and then they fry it again. I mean, it's more besides like French fries. I can live on that, I guess. That's, that's delicious. There is definitely like an emerging vegetarian vegan scene in the city. So there are some restaurants that cater to it. But I mean, traditional Panamanian things, a lot of them had meat. Even in breakfast, you'll see like, you know, there's like steak for breakfast. Rice and beans. Rice and beans. Rice and beans is definitely. I'll come back to that vegetarian question.

All right. Well, okay, so I know Panama City is like a proper city, but if I were living there and wanted to go to the beach and I didn't want to go too far, what would you recommend? The easiest beach to go to is actually the islands right off of the city. So there's a place called Toboga Island, which is a ferry ride away. I think it's maybe $15 round trip for the ferry. And you basically just take the ferry from the city directly to the island,

and you land right at the beach and you can, you know, lay out at the beach and swim, and it's beautiful, it has views of the city, and it's nice. The other option is basically getting on a bus and going down to the Caribbean beaches, which started about an hour from the city. But the city itself, even though it's on the water, doesn't have very nice beaches, unfortunately. So it's more of the pools and, you know, the high rises. There's some beautiful rooftop pools if you want to sneak into some of the hotels, which is usually doable.

That's a good plan. But if you want to get to the beach, I'd say, Islet Toboga is the easiest. And the other one that I like a lot is called El Palmar, which is you get on a bus that's maybe, I don't know, four or five dollars. And it takes you down to the Pacific beaches. It lets you off right on the road. And then you walk either from there, you take a, you know, $1 taxi or something right down to the beach. El Palmar, which is really nice. It's a surf beach. So they rent surf boards and there's a bunch of little, it's kind of a cute little town right on the beach. And you can have, you know, some lunch and surf and lay out. out on the beach and then walk back and then take the bus back to the city. So that's kind of a nice trip. That sounds easy enough. All right. Cool. Well, David, you've given us some great suggestions. Can we do a little lightning round of your favorite things? Of course. I'd be happy to.

Okay. What is your favorite walking tour or what walking tour would you recommend? So there's two. There's one called Pty-Y Life, which is a guy named Joey, who's from the U.S., who does an amazing tour. It takes you on the subway and it takes you, you know, all this, like, hidden spots. And it's no, it's, he doesn't, if you're not driving around in a van and an air-conditioned van, it's like walking and subway and this. So it's kind of a real Panamanian, you know, we'd say Banja de Pueblo, which is just like a real authentic experience.

And then the other one would be the Chorillo experience, which is a guy named Victor who will take you to Chorillo, which is the neighborhood where people don't go to visit outside of Casco Viejo, which is kind of like the old gang tour. So I'd say one of those two for sure. Okay. So sounds like one is fantastic for getting your bearings. And then the other one is just a good cultural. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. But getting your bt Y life, his tour is amazing for getting your bearings around the city. Okay. How are you looking at? How about bakery? There's a new French bakery in my neighborhood that is amazing. It's called Ventis Averse. I don't speak French.

It's V-E-N-T-D-E and then Savior. S-A-V-E-U-R-S. And that's how I pronounce it. I don't speak French either. Okay, Vent to Savors. Is there a typical Panamanian breakfast? Panamanian breakfast is like steak and something called O'Haldra, which is like a fried dough, like a funnel cake, basically.

That is an intense breakfast. Yeah, it's a pretty, it's pretty heavy. So people really will bulk up in the breakfast. There's something called Garimaniola, which is amazing. It's deep-fried yuka, which is cassava, and then it's stuffed with meat, and it's like this little fried pastry thing, and that's amazing. But, I mean, a lot of people go to, at least at people at the school, a lot of people like are empanadas. So the super gourmet, the guy, the Mississippi guy, he has, they make the best empanadas. I mean, his wife's Panamanian, and the food there's really good.

She knows what she's doing. She knows what she's doing, so. Empanadas are like a go-to. Okay. How about lunch? Lunch is great because there's a lot of the businesses people will go out and do, there's lunch specials that people don't really know about. If you're a tourist, they don't give you the lunch menu.

They give you the regular menu because they want to sell you a more expensive lunch. But a lot of places, I think across Latin America, we'll do like a set lunch, which is usually like a soup or a salad and a main chorus and, you know, like the executive lunch. So I usually go to a place called tantalo, T-A-N-T-A-L-O, Tant-L-O, Tantalo. And that's the place that has the rooftop bar, but they do an amazing set lunch. And there's usually like four or five options. And they're each like five or six dollars. And they're amazing.

I forgot to ask about coffee. I think it's. Yeah. So coffee is Bahadeke is the place I go or the super gourmet. But there really is not a bad cup of coffee in Panama. It's like illegal to serve bad coffee. So the normal coffee, we have free coffee at the school is amazing. I mean, it's like the regular standard.

Duran, and it's like far and beyond anything you'd get mistakes for the most part. So it's very cool. I'm currently on a detox. And so I'm just like, ah, this sounds so wonderful. All right. Are there any food halls or markets? You mentioned fish market. Yeah. So the fish market has lots of little stalls, which you can eat at and food as well. And then across the street, there's actually, it's called the Mercado San Felipe, the San Felipe Market. And there, inside there, there's also like a food hall with lots of little stores. and it's all kind of local fare. You have, you know, everything. So that's right across the street from the fish market and right near Casco Viejo. So that's also another good option.

And what about if we wanted to go shopping, are there any weekend markets or any artisanal markets that you would recommend? So, yeah, basically in Casco Viejo, along the water, there's, they set up markets basically in like the high season for tourism, January to, you know, April, basically every day and then the rest of the year, basically on the weekends for the most part. There's like artis and markets, handicraft and jewelry and bags. Usually either in the main plaza, Plaza Independencia, or along the water. It's called the Malekon. Are there any typical souvenirs that people bring back from Panama?

Well, the most typical souvenir is the Panama hat and the irony that they're all made in Ecuador. They were made famous in Panama. I think of Teddy Roosevelt or someone came to Panama back in the day and wore one and took a picture with it. And they said, this is the typical Panama hat. They were all made in Ecuador. And they became very famous in Panama. So everywhere sells Panama hats. They're not cheap.

They're like anywhere from $25 to $200 or $300 more. But they look really cool. And so I'd say most people get Panama hats. The other thing that I'd recommend would be the molest, the cuna make, the hand-woven designs they make. So you can get them on like bags. They look really cool. And I've seen them even on like kind of shoes, like slippery shoes for women and, you know, baseball.

They put them on anything. And that's kind of cool, indigenous print. And so if you find something you like with that, I'd say definitely take something with a mola. The actual mullahs themselves, unless you frame it and put it on the wall, there's not really much you can do with it. So I usually get like pillows. Mola pillows. That's like a gift that I gift of people. Maybe a wallet.

A wallet would be cool. Yeah, they put it on everything, but it's definitely unique. I mean, it's only from Panama and Columbia where the Kuna are. And are there any like fair trade shops where we could make sure we're getting the real deal? Yeah, there's a great place called Motete. Motete is they sell like really kind of unique things from all, source them all over the country and like, you know, coffee and chocolate and handicrafts and things. And they, they source their things really well. So I'd say motete would be the place to go in Casco Viejo.

Okay. And where are we having dinner, David? Ooh, okay, you're going to love this. It's called Lo Keai. Fonda Lo Kei. So a Fonda is usually just a breakfast and lunch place. They're kind of playing on that word, though. It's a chef.

He has another restaurant that's probably the nicest and most expensive restaurant in the city called Don de Jose. And that's like a $100 person tasting menu, you know, eight courses. and like there's only, you know, 10 seats in the restaurant. That's if you, you know, have no unlimited budget and you want to go there, definitely go Dundee Jose. But if you have a lower budget, I'd say fund the lokiai, because it's, lokiai means what we have. And so they write up on the menu in like whiteboard,

and as things sell out, they just cross them off. So this is what we have as lokiai. And it's amazing food. I think it's definitely the best, you know, quality price in Panama. I'd say the dishes are probably 15. to $20 at most. And the move is usually to go with like four or five people and to order four or five dishes. And everyone gets to share everything.

You never know what it's going to look like or what's it. And it's just everything is delicious and fresh. And I'd say that's for me is like the go-to. I end up taking people there a lot. And if you are having a night out, where would you go after that? I'd probably go to some of the rooftop bars in Costco Viejo. I might start across the street at a place called Selena, which has a really cool rooftop bar with a little pool

overlooking the city. I might then go to across the street to a place called Despacio, which often has live music and it's a big garden, outdoor patio area. And then maybe if I wanted to dance to a place called Moloko, which is kind of hidden down an alleyway, which usually has a DJ starting at like midnight and we'll go until

five or six in the morning. It has like kind of after hours if you want to hit it hard. And if you were having an early night and wanted to do something cultural the next day, what would you be up to? What would I do? What would be the cultural activity? Where would I go for that drink? No, where would you go for the cultural activity? Something cultural. I'd go to the canal museum. There's the canal itself, which is Mira Flores, but there's actually a canal museum in Casco Viejo, which is really cool. Most people don't know, don't know it exists. And they have, it's more of like the history of the

canal error than like the functioning and the engineering of the canal itself. So it shows like the time. But there's right when you walk in, there's this beautiful, it's actually the top of a lighthouse from the 1800s, and it was built and designed by Eiffel, the same guy who built the Eiffel Tower. And so there's all these like lighthouses randomly around Panama that were built by Eiffel. And they have these like incredible crystal, I don't know, prisms. I don't know how they worked. You know, you lit something inside it and it would, you know, shine light everywhere. But it's, you know, very kind of art deco, you know, over the top. And it's, it's, yeah, it was a designed by iPhone. That's right when you walk into the Konami Museum. So I'd say check that out. That's fascinating. I definitely want to learn more about that. Any other cultural tips we should know before we go? Or anything else do you want to add? Tipping in Panama is 10%, but only at nicer places. So like at a local kind of lunch spot, like a funder at the markets, you obviously wouldn't tip anything. Taxis you also wouldn't tip. Uber, I guess, you know, it's up to you if you want to, but most people don't. And that's it. I'd say, yeah, the best way to, you know, to enjoy some place new is to get lost.

So I'd say, don't be afraid to get lost and to explore when you come to Panama. Well, David, thanks again for making the time. Where can we find out more about you? Well, at the school, basically, casco, casco, spanish.com, C-A-S-C-O-S-Spanish.com is the school. And my email is David at Costco-Spanish. If you want to shoot me a message if you're coming to Panama, I'd love to have you come check out the school. and show you around. Amazing. Thank you, David. My pleasure. Thank you. I'm sold on Panama. In the last episode, you learned that David is from Connecticut like me. And when we were talking before the interview, I asked him if he had any nieces or nephews. Because since becoming an aunt myself,

almost three years ago, I really want to spend more time in the States. Don't necessarily want to live there permanently, but I want to spend a lot more time there visiting my nephew. and David felt the same way, and he said that it's pretty easy to fly home several times a year to see his family. So who knows, maybe Panama is the next country for me on my list. Or Mexico, I do love Mexican food. There's so many countries. So many countries, so little time. All right, for show notes, visit postcardacademy.com. If you liked this episode, please share this podcast with a friend.

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