Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Queenstown, New Zealand: What to Eat, Do, and Drink in This Stunning Wine Region

Episode Date: May 25, 2018

Today we are talking to my friend Ting Zhang, a New Yorker who now lives in Queenstown, New Zealand — birthplace of bungee jumping and fantastic pinot noir.    In a previous life, Ting had an awesome job as a global product lead at Google in New York City. On paper she had everything, but when she took a step back a few years ago, she realized what she really wanted to do was travel. So, she packed up everything and embarked on a world tour. She originally only planned on visiting Queenstown for a few days, but now she lives there permanently and you will love hearing the story about what kept her there.    Of course, she also shares her insider tips on where to find the best dining, hiking, and drinking options in this boutique wine region of the world.    The Postcard Academy podcast is hosted by me, Sarah Mikutel. You can sign up for my newsletter here, if you so please. And thank you so much for listening to this show. I know you’re busy and have many listening options, so it means a lot to me that you’re here. You are the best.   Find more travel stories and guides at postcardacademy.coDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to the Postcard Academy, your weekly travel and culture podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Micatel, and today we are talking to my friend Ting Zhang, a New Yorker who now lives in Queenstown, New Zealand. Ting is such an inspiring person. She has volunteered internationally, she knows all about wine, and she is just an overall fun and nice person. In a previous life, she had an awesome job as a global product lead at Google in New York City, and on paper she had everything. But when she took a step back a few years ago, she realized that what she really wanted to do was travel. So she packed up everything and embarked on a world tour. And she originally only planned on visiting Queenstown for a few days. But now she lives there permanently and you love hearing her story about what made her stay. In this episode,

she also shares all of her insider tips on where to find the best food, hiking, and drinks in this boutique wine region of the world. Today's podcast is brought to you by Audible, and you Postcard Academy listeners can get a free audiobook and 30-day free trial if you go to audible trial.com slash postcard. Last week, I mentioned that I was listening to 57 hours of the rise and fall of the Third Reich, which has proven to be predictably intense, so I am balancing this out with some more inspiring books, like one of my all-time favorites on creating positive change in the world, Switch by Chip and Dan Heath. But you can download the audiobook of your choice for free using the code postcard.

So that's audible trial.com slash postcard. Now into my conversation with Ting. Welcome, Ting. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks, Sarah. It's great to be here. So nice to see you. You too. Whereabouts are you? Right now I'm in Rome, sitting on the floor in the hallway, because this street is too noisy.

Oh, no. Oh, man. You were just in Berlin, weren't you? I was in Berlin, and then I was in Poland, and now I'm here. Holy cow. Buzzing all around. Yeah, well, I knew I wanted to spend some time in Italy this summer. I usually come here, you know. at least a month or two a year. Yay, location independent. And the apartment wasn't ready until

Sunday, so I did a last-minute trip to Krak out, which had been on my list forever. And I'm so glad I went. It was such like, I don't know, I was really, it was more than I expected. I was really glad that I went there. Oh, cool. My mom, who until recently lived in Romania and was raving about Poland as well, because she took a trip there, you know, since it's just right over the border there. Yeah, she was raving about it. She was really, really impressed. Yeah, well, I guess I just, you know, growing up in America, we don't really learn anything about Eastern Europe. And I'm like 50% Polish.

Do you know, I'm Italian? I'm Italian too, but I've been all over Italy. I know Italian. And in the past, I hadn't been that interested in the Polish side. of my heritage. And also I had like a teacher growing up who used to talk like tell jokes about how stupid Polish people were all the time. And it kind of like shamed me a little bit. So I think part of me was like, I'm not that interested in Poland. But anyway, over the years I've gotten more interested and it's amazing. So yeah. Cool. I'll have to add it to my list.

Yeah. Yeah. So we met at Heathrow several years ago. There was a... We did. There was a supposed technological failure that shut down the airport, complete chaos. Everyone was running around, missing their flights, trying to get a new ones. On the plus side, I got to meet you. So where were you headed that day? Do you remember? I do, actually. It was such a crazy night, and I'm really happy I ended up next to you in the four-hour queue to get our problems sorted.

I believe I was heading from Heath Road to Romania, where my mom was living. living at the time. So to kind of go and visit her and explore Eastern Europe a bit. And you are on a worldwide trip, I believe, at this time. What prompted this trip? Oh, gosh, it's what I like to always call my breakthrough slash breakdown moment that I had in New York. So when I was, this must have been at the end of 2014, I on paper had kind of everything I ever, you know, thought I ever wanted or worked for. Nice apartment. you know, a job I wanted and, you know, good friends and all that. And yet, I was just completely miserable. And after, you know, a few months of grappling with all that, I decided the only thing

I really, really wanted to do was to travel for a while. And I remember saying to myself when I left New York that the only thing I wanted out of my trip around the world was to be shown other ways of life and basically see how others live and see, you know, how they make themselves happy. So I think I started out in Iceland, which is an amazing, amazing place. Anybody who has a chance should definitely go. The nature there will just smack you in the face and make you smile and be filled with wonder. And from there, I had a few friends I was visiting in London for a few days, and that's where I met

you Sarah. From there, I went on to Romania to hang out with my mom. We actually did Berlin together that Christmas, which was really lovely with all the Christmas markets. And then from there, I went to the Southern Hemisphere. Spent a few months in Australia and then ended up in New Zealand, which has now become my home. So did you have this all planned out before you left or were you sort of going with the flow? Definitely in the beginning, probably up until Romania. was pretty planned out. After that, I originally when I left New York, I thought I was only going to spend about three months away.

And pretty much by the time I left Europe for the Southern Hemisphere, I kind of realized there was, you know, something within me that really wanted to explore other places for much longer. And the main reason I think was that when I thought about returning, you know, back to the place I called home for most of my life, there was nothing really calling me there. The thought of kind of going back really didn't appeal to me much. And that's when I first started, I suppose, giving myself permission to think about potentially making a home elsewhere.

So by the time I landed in Australia, I was more actively on the lookout for places that felt right. And, you know, I could picture myself being long term. And why did you decide to stay in New Zealand? That was a really kind of funny story that I did not anticipate was not in my original life plans. As I mentioned before, I was, you know, in Australia and looking for places that sued me. And actually fell in love with Melbourne. So Melbourne is a wonderful, wonderful city full of culture, music, and life. And I ended up spending about almost two months there.

And, you know, at that point really thought I was going to make my next life. chapter there. So, you know, looked at the last place I had on my list to visit, which was New Zealand, and said, oh, okay, I'm just going to go to New Zealand, finish my world travels, and I'm going to go back to Australia to start my new life. And, you know what they say? Life is what happens when you're busy making plans. And I went to New Zealand, was supposed to be in Queensland, which is where I live now for four days. And on the fourth day, completely by chance, met my now partner slash fiancé. And very unexpectedly fell head over heels for each other very quickly.

And decided, you know what? Actually, Melbourne will always be there. I kind of have to give this a shot and see if it works. And just kind of came up with a little trial period, I suppose, of staying in Queensland to see if someplace like this much smaller city than I was used to would suit me. So I think it was very fortunate that timing and everything and the universe had this little surprise plan for me. And I always joke that my partner ruined off my life plans of moving to Melbourne.

But in reality, he definitely has upgraded them because, honestly, I don't know that I would have known to pick a place like Queenstown for myself, mostly because it's much smaller in terms of population than any place I ever lived. So I was born in Shanghai and lived in New York City for most of my life. So Queenstown is a pretty small tourist town of 20,000 people versus, you know, 8 billion in New York. And yeah, I don't know that I would have picked a place like that for myself. And I'm so glad that circumstances have resulted in me having a wonderful life here, because I truly feel kind of a spiritual connection, I think, to Queenstown.

And it's the most content of anywhere I've ever lived. So feeling very, very blessed to be able to live here. Wow. So you met your partner on the last day of your trip. What was that story? He always hates it when I tell this story because he says it makes him sound like he was hitting on clients or something. Tell us. So this is another one of those situations.

where, you know, those little things that added up to a big thing happening, I suppose. So I was supposed to be in Queensland for four days. And on the fourth day that I was supposed to be there, I wanted to go on some tour that was all booked up. And therefore, was kind of looking for something else to do with my last day there or what I thought was my last day there. And was getting some kind of juice or something from a lovely little shop. And the person behind the cashier happened to mention that it was a, the Queenstown area is a very popular and well-known wine region and that I should check out, you know, some wineries. And the only reason I started Googling wine tours was because this lovely woman behind the counter mentioned it to me and came across my partner's wine tour business and it had amazing ratings and, you know, looked fun. So decided to go on his tour.

and he happened to be the guide that day. So, yeah, thought he was lovely and basically asked him out for drinks. And now here we are a few years later and we're making wedding plans. So ladies, if you see something you like or someone you like, don't hold back is all I have to say. Great advice, yes. And that sounds like the best tour ever. Literally life-changing. So, Ting, you were born in Shanghai, you grew up in New York.

So are you a U.S. citizen and Chinese citizen? I'm just curious about how you were able to live and work in New Zealand to start off with. Yeah, absolutely. So I was born in Shanghai, but became a U.S. citizen when I was 21. So when you become a U.S. citizen, you have to renounce your other citizenships for the most part. There are some exceptions, but for China, it's definitely a country where you have to actively renounce that citizenship. So I am currently only a U.S. citizen. And the way I was able to stay and work in New Zealand was through, initially it was through a working holiday program.

So certain countries, I believe, such as Australia and New Zealand, offer other countries, the ability to do one to two years visa living and working in said country. One of the requirements, though, is that you have to be under 31. So unfortunately, it's not available for kind of late career folks. It's, I think, more meant for, you know, the backpacker or a constant traveler to be able to fund their travels through Australia or New Zealand. And so that's the initial visa that I came in on. And after a year of that, my relationship with my partner was, you know, more developed and I was able to apply for a partnership visa.

So that's a really handy way to stay in a country, as opposed. If you marry someone of that citizenship, that could be a way to stay. So for me, it worked out to transfer the working holiday visa into the, partnership visa. So how would you describe New Zealand for people who don't know much about it? Where is it geographically? What does the postcard look like? So there's this recent funny little video that the Prime Minister of New Zealand made with Rees Darby, who is a New Zealand actor. And they joke that all the world maps have left New Zealand off. It's often forgotten because it's so tiny. New Zealand is pretty much to the sats.

west of Australia geographically. And it's made up of two pretty long islands, kind of situated north and south of each other. So I live in the South Island of New Zealand, and the South Island is quite different from the North Island, and that the North Island is more kind of beautiful, green rolling hills and farmland, quite idyllic for sure. There are more big cities in the North Island as well,

such as Auckland and Wellington. In the South Island, the nature is much more epic and grand. So think glacial blue lakes surrounded by snow cover mountains. It's truly, truly beautiful. So it's definitely a place for people who really enjoy nature and hiking and beautiful birdsong. New Zealand's native species are quite unique because it was quite geologically separated from the rest of the world for a very long time. So you have really interesting creatures such as the Kiwi bird, it's a bird, but it can't fly. And it makes the ecosystem here really, really special.

Yeah, so New Zealand was, I think, the last place where humans started inhabiting the world. I think the Polynesians started to arrive mid to late, 1,200s. Who are the Maori people? The Māori people is the indigenous people of New Zealand. So, Māori culture and language is still very much part of New Zealand identity here. They originated from the Polynesia Islands, as you mentioned. And folks who are familiar with Hawaiian culture would notice a lot of similarities because they all originate from the same ancestors. So they are very much part of New Zealand's identity in the sense that, you know, you'll hear kind of Māori language sprinkled into everyday vernacular.

And that's where the very commonly heard saying Kyoto comes from. It's actually Māori, and it's a very common New Zealand or Kiwi greeting. And it's really, really lovely because, you know, it can mean anything from hello to good morning to, you know, be well. And it's really, really full of good wishes, essentially, for the receiver. And the all blacks, I am not a sports person, forgive me, they are soccer or rugby? They are definitely rugby and that's about all I know about them. Okay, because I know they always do a chant and I didn't know if that was sort of in honor of the Maori heritage or not. Yes, it absolutely is.

And it's basically a warrior call that the all blacks do before each match. And it's fantastic because, you know, it gets the crowd going and it's extremely intimidating because it is literally a warrior song to challenge your opponent. Yeah, that's one of the things that I think New Zealand is most famous for and also being the location for Lord of the Rings. Yes, that's a very good point. I should have said when you asked what does the postcard look like. I should have said, go watch Lord of the Rings.

That's what the Lord of the Postcard looks like. It truly is the real Middle Earth. And what's the deal with the rivalry between New Zealand and Australia? Oh, it's such a funny little unofficial rivalry. The kind of analogy I sometimes use is the jovial competition between Canadians and Americans. So if America, for instance, was Australia, then New Zealand will probably be Canada. It's kind of the little brother that thinks it's pretty awesome, even though the big brother is saying that they're better or something like that. That's probably simplifying it and apologize to all the Canadians and Americans out there.

But it's a very friendly rivalry, I would say. Did you watch Flight of the Concords before you headed to Australia and New Zealand? I actually did not, but I've gotten really, really into Tycho Waititi's films. Taika Waititi is one of the best filmmakers coming out in New Zealand. His latest directorial project was Thor Ragnarok. And if anybody wants a taste of his lovely sense of humor, they should just watch the latest Thor film because it is hysterical. And if somebody else will also want some Kiwiyana to take home,

I would highly recommend the film, the New Zealand film, hunt for the wilder people. So it's also by Taika Waititi. And if anybody wants to get a sense of Kiwiisms, that's definitely the way to go. It's a lovely little film. Ooh, nice. Thanks for the recommendation. I would love to get some Queenstown travel adice from you.

Yeah, totally. Okay. So let's say I'm coming to visit you in Queenstown. Where would you take me? I would definitely take you hiking or on the many, many walks around the Lake Waka-Tipu. So Queenstown is built all around Lake Wokatipu, which is one of the deepest glacial lakes in New Zealand. And the blue of the water from all the glacial runoffs over the yons are just incredible.

And you work with the Waka Tipu Wildlife Trust, correct? Yes, I do. Yeah. We are a nonprofit that concentrates on saving native species. So when what I was talking about before with New Zealand species being quite unique, one of the disadvantage of evolving in isolation is that you don't really develop defenses against predators. So for a very long time, there were no mammalian predators on New Zealand. And once people started immigrating here or, you know, voyaging here, they brought with them things like rats and stoats and ferrets and things that are basically attacking native species, such as native birds and native. plants, which are very, very important to the ecosystem.

So the Wildlife Trust that I work for are concentrating on helping to eradicate those introduced predators because although prior to the introduction of predators, you know, it was a beautiful nature sanctuary for all these amazing birds. because there are no predators to essentially predate on the introduced predators, the numbers of those predators have just been astronomical. So there's something like 90 million possums in New Zealand for the 4 million people that live here. Just imagine the amount of possums per person you get a little nightmare going. Yeah, so nature is a huge part of New Zealand tourism. And it sounds like it's a great place for people who like sort of adventure sports.

I think Queenstown is the birthplace of bungee jumping. Have you tried that? I have not. I am super, super scared of the sensation of falling. But my partner has, and he swears, it's life-changing. So I did joke that at some point I will have to do a tandem bungee jump with him because that's the only way I'm jumping off the side of that edge if somebody literally grabs me and throws me over.

I think I would jump out of a plane, but I don't know if I would want a bungee jump. Something about like bouncing around on that cord just, I don't know. I have visions of necks breaking and I don't know if I could do it. Oh, I completely agree. And, you know, it's a very unfounded fear, to be honest, because I don't think there's been any fatalities or in many serious injuries from the bungee jumps, especially out of Queenstown, whereas there's definitely been skydiving accidents. So the chances of something going wrong in skydives are asteroids.

dynamically higher than something going wrong with bungee jump. And from what I've been told, the way bungee works is actually the cables that tie you gradually softens the fall as you reach kind of maximum pull on the cable. So it's supposed to slow you down. But that said, I still look at what's happening. I'm like, no, every fiber in my body will tell me not to step off that ledge. Maybe I'll just stick to hiking around. There really is something for everybody here, though.

you know, it's everything from jetboating. So jet boats are also invented in Queenstown to hiking, to wineries, to, yeah, adventure sports, also things like paragliding. So it's a fantastic place to be amongst nature in all kinds of ways. Okay. Yes. Let's talk more specifically about some of these other opportunities. So how would you spend a leisurely afternoon? Gosh, it would sound terribly boring to anybody else listening, but I will probably spend it in my garden pottering around with my vegetables, but for other people who are not as boring as me, I would definitely take them around a walk around the Queenstown Gardens, which is a fantastic way to get on the waterfront in Queenstown and see the beautiful views going down Lake Wokatipu. I would also probably be taken on a drive

towards Glenorke. It has literally been the most scenic drive in the world, and it's only an hour's drive from Queenstown and the entire hour you're just staring at the window saying, this is not real. It's such a, such a beautiful drive. Pretty much all weather, too, it's just stunning. Other than that, there are beautiful cafes to, you know, take in the views while enjoying some cake and flat whites. And there's not much shopping in Queenstown, I have to admit.

So if you're into kind of more glamorous things, yeah, probably the South Island of New Zealand and is not the right place. If we don't drive, are there trains or other public transport? Or is it easy to hire somebody to drive us around? Yeah. So unfortunately that the public transport system is not great around Queenstown. There are kind of inter-neighborhood $2 buses that just launched, which is fantastic way to get from like your Airbnb or your hotel to downtown

or even out to the neighboring little town. around such as Arrowtown, which is really cute little town as well. However, if you wanted to get out into day trips, definitely probably the best way is to rent a car. But if you don't drive, then there are plenty of day trip buses that you can take. So there are buses that actually will take you all around the South Island and North Island. So companies like QE Experience or I think Stray is also another popular one, they will take you basically to all the great spots all around New Zealand. And what I always say to people is instead of flying in between destinations in New Zealand,

driving however way you can, you know, either driving by your own higher car or by bus, is the best way to see the country because some of the best beautiful scenery is in between cities. And let's face it, you don't actually come to New Zealand for the cities. There are much bigger cities, you know, probably in Australia. But you do come for the nature. And you do miss a lot of that if you're just taking domestic flights from one place to the next. So I would definitely recommend hire a car if you can. If not, then definitely look into either day trip bus options or entire island experiences through tour buses.

Can you tell us more about the wineries and wine tours? And let's start off talking about your partner's business. Yeah. So my partner runs a boutique wine tour business. What that means is she only does small group. So he only takes up to seven people, which makes it a really intimate and nice, relax experience. And it also allows him to take folks to smaller wineries that might not be able to accommodate, you know, a busload of 30 people. And a lot of the wineries around Queenstown, so the larger area around Queenstown is called Central Otago.

That's the wine region, if you were going to look that up. And most of the wineries around Central Otago will be family-owned small, lovely boutique wineries. And the reason for that is the production amount of grapes around here are never going to be very, very high. Because one of the reasons the wine regions are so good around here is that the climate is perfectly suited for growing Pinotaur. So for Pinotaur grapes, you want pretty hot days, followed by very cool evenings. So that temperature difference is really what makes the grapes, the Pinot Noir grapes, really thrive here. But because it's a very harsh environment, you also won't get huge yields. So for those reasons, you're always going to get, you know, mostly for the most part, really small boutique wineries.

And you can either, you know, self-drive around to the wineries or hire or enjoy a tour group like New Zealand wine tours. And that's your partners, New Zealand wine tours. Yes, that's right. Okay, great. Where do you go when you're in the mood for some culture? What does Queenstown have to offer? Is there theater or live music? There are lots of community-run really cool projects. Like coming up in June, there's actually a light festival called Luma, and it's all volunteer-based, fill with really talented creative folks who are doing light installations and interactive sculptures that involve lighting. And little community projects like that is what really brings the tourists and locals out, you know, on a weekend. And they do come probably more in waves just because most of them are volunteer efforts.

But things like, you know, community theater are really big here. I, a few years ago, volunteered for a local version of TED Talks. So it's called TEDx, which is all volunteer-based organizations of TED Talks put on within different communities. So because it's not a big city, all those kind of arts and culture projects really need to be nurtured from the ground up. And thankfully, there are really, really creative people in this community that work on these passion projects together. For kind of the bigger splashy shows, like for instance, if a big musical act is coming to New Zealand, most likely they're going to go to places like Christchurch or Wellington or Auckland just because

the population is bigger there. They obviously need to fill some seats. Thankfully, Air New Zealand is a fantastic domestic and international airline, and sometimes they'll offer really cheap seats on websites such as grab a seat, where if you don't really care about when you travel, you can pop over to the big city and get your culture fill and then pop back to paradise down in Queenstown and get the best of both worlds. Great tip. So how far away if we were driving to Christchurch? How far away is that? It's about six hours drive, and it's a very beautiful drive. But to put it into perspective, it's actually only about 45 minutes flight time.

So, you know, as the crow flies, it's less than an hour away. But because the South Island in particular is filled with lots of windy roads through mountain ranges and things like that, it does take a bit more time to get there. But it's definitely drivable. And like I say, it's a very, very easy, beautiful scenic drive. So it doesn't feel like you're just dealing with, you know, straight five-lane highways the entire way. So if we were going to do a New Zealand trip, what route would you advise? Where should we fly in and out of? And what would some of our mustsees be on our first trip to New Zealand? Yeah, I definitely recommend for anybody who is coming to the side of the world to do New Zealand over a few weeks. A lot of people, you know, have it in their mind that they should do both Australia and New Zealand in one go just because it's far away. And, you know, while I understand trying to get the most out of your long flight, My personal sense is that, you know, you're short-changing yourself in both countries if you're trying to cram both countries into, you know, a two-week, two-to-three-week trip.

So I would definitely recommend splitting those up. And in New Zealand, I'm a little bit biased, but I will highly recommend spending majority of your time in the South Island and doing so on the road mostly. So what that means, you know, either hiring a car or joining a bus tour around the island, most people will probably fly into. nationally into Auckland, but then it's a very, very short domestic flight to the South Island into Christchurch. And most people either start in Queenstown and end in Christchurch or vice versa. So both places, there are, you know, lots of places you can easily rent cars and self-drive around. And most of the time you can make either a clockwise loop around the South Island or a counterclockwise loop. And what's wonderful about New Zealand is that over the course of a very relatively short drive,

you could come across five different landscapes. So what I mean, an example would be, you know, driving from Queenstown up the west coast, you'll go from Alpine Mountains into Tussock deserts to wet rainforests all within about five hours drive. It's absolutely incredible. And it's another reason why I really recommend doing road trips around the island. Let's talk about food. So I met an American couple the other day. And they were telling me about a New Zealand trip they took about a year ago,

and they were curious about whether New Zealand had and, like, what the food culture might be like? So they asked somebody there, you know, what should we try? What's need of New Zealand? And they mentioned Hokie-Pokey ice cream. What is that? Hokey-Pokey is very kiwi. So, hokey-poki is basically a honey candy. And one of the things that New Zealand is famous for is their manuka honey.

So Manuka comes from the Munuka flower, which is a native plant here. And it's been shown to have really wonderful health benefits, in particular kind of antibacterial and anti-inflammatory properties. So it's one of the most popular souvenirs that people take home. And Hokie Poki is made from honey. And so both those things together makes honey quite a big part of New Zealand food coach. In terms of larger food culture, it's quite funny because my partner who is New Zealander always self-deprecatingly says that, you know, Kiwi culture is basically meat and three veg, which is, you know, a piece of protein with three vegetables and, you know, that's their

favorite meal. And I think a lot of that stems from the fact that majority of Kiwi industry still comes from agriculture and it comes from a farming culture, you know, from its historical side as well. So they're very, very kind of down to earth in terms of their nutrition. But what's important is that a lot of, most of the ingredients you'll find in New Zealand are just so fresh and delicious. I swear for about two years after I first came here, I was raving about how good the carrots taste here. I just couldn't believe how sweet the carrots taste. And that's one of the benefits I think of being from a small nation where, you know, produce is produced.

right down the road and you don't have to travel far to get, you know, your neighbor's production from their farm. And since the country is so small, there's not really a lot of places you need to ship it. So most of the ingredients tend to be really true, whole good food. And what's the drinking culture like? The drinking culture has its pros and cons, I'd say. There unfortunately is with locals, you know, historically a binge drinking culture. And again, I think some of that comes from the kind of down-to-earth, duke yourself, being out of the middle of nowhere by yourself kind of culture, where, unfortunately, you know, some people do fall into the binge-drinking culture,

especially around like kind of big holidays. You see people get, could potentially get quite messy. That said, though, I think a lot of Kiwis are really looking to kind of quality versus quantity. So you notice a lot of wonderful craft beer breweries coming up, especially in areas like Wellington in Queenstown, in particular, one of my absolute favorite craft beers is called altitude brewing. They were just started by two guys who were just doing it for themselves and got really good at making beer.

And now they're all the way offered in China and won some tasting awards recently as well. All those things kind of point to the DIY culture of Kiwi culture. So, yeah, I think more and more Kiwis are starting to find the finer levels of alcohol from the wine aspect and the beer aspect as well. Are there any food or designer markets we should check out in Queenstown? There are great little local markets on the weekend. So one is called Remarkables Market. It's a crafts, food, and produce market all rolled into one. And they are, yeah, they attract locals and tourists alike.

And it's just a lovely way to spend your Saturdays. especially in the summertime. And one of the local towns, or neighboring towns, is called Arrowtown, and they also have their fresh produce market as well. You mentioned that summertime is the best time. When is summertime in New Zealand? So because it's in the southern hemisphere, it's completely flipped. Summertime here is probably from December until February.

And it's the first time I experienced summertime Christmas. So I used to ask people, you know, do you still think about sleighs and snowing at Christmas time? And apparently people still do. But everybody's out barbecuing, eating cherries and in their flip-flops or jandals as they're called in New Zealand. That sounds like so much fun. Oh, it's a great time. Everybody's so happy during Christmas time. Was it easy for you to make friends in New Zealand?

How did you meet new people? That's a great question and particularly applicable for someplace like Queenstown. I think Queensland is actually. probably made up more of people from outside New Zealand than Kiwis. My partner, again, jokes that in Queensland Kiwi are endangered species, which is a double joke because Kiwi birds are actually endangered. And one of the reasons is that the main industry in Queensland is tourism. So you get a lot of people who are kind of coming through on their one or two year working holiday visa and they make up basically the heartbeat of town. You know, they're your waist

staff and hospitality staff. And, you know, they're kind of after the flexible hours and then they go off skiing or adventuring. And it's a great way to actually spend a year or two. So most people you meet in Queensland are actually from outside Queensland, even if they're Kiwis, they're not usually from Queenstown. What that's created is kind of a two-edged situation. On the one hand, I think a lot of long-term locals get quite cynical or sad about, you know, people that they've made friends with who ultimately have to leave after a year or two because of visa situations or they've moved on to another part of the country.

So a lot of locals, I think, try to, you know, really hone in on people who might be staying long-term. I personally think, you know, friendships that last five minutes can bring as much to your life as long-term friends. friendships and everybody has something valuable to offer, no matter how short of a time you know them in front of you. But on the other hand, because everybody's, you know, from outside Queenstown, there's a really wonderful community of supporting each other because we're all essentially orphans, you know. So we'll have situations like Christmas time. One of our friends will just open their doors and say, hey, whoever doesn't have a place to go for Christmas, just come over. And it becomes your second family really, really easily because everybody is, you know, in the same boat of trying to find their community and really, really, really are wonderful about lifting each other up. So I've been really lucky to fall into the second group here, there that I mentioned, where people have been really, really welcoming and really supportive of each other.

I love that. And it just sounds like there's quite a lot of opportunities to meet new people. I know that since you moved there, you've gotten really into aerial arts. So what is that? Yes, aerial arts is my new passion. It's basically, the way I try to explain it is it's basically a circus, but with a bit more dance element. So if you imagine, you know, not that I look anything like this, but if you imagine

Cirque to Soleil, you know, you're doing a lot of acrobatics in midair either on silks, Lira, which is a hoop or things like trapeze. And you're just kind of having fun and doing acrobats. I will also create routines to music. So that's been a really great creative outlet for me. I've always been pretty much an office dweller for most of my career. So it's been really, really wonderful to discover this part of me that is way more physical and, you know, can do these things I never thought I'd be able to do

and have a creative element to it in terms of choreographing it, to me. music. So I call it aerial arts or another way to say is aerial dancing because it feels like you're dancing in the air. And for anybody who is, you know, slightly curious about it, it's becoming much more of an accessible fitness form. A lot of major cities now have studios that offer just casual classes if you ever want to give it a try. It's a fantastic way to get exercise. It's so much fun. No two classes ever the same. And as you can see, I literally cannot raved enough about it. So it's truly changed my life. And I've actually recently gone through teacher training to be able to hopefully share with other beginners who might think they might not be

able to do it. Because if I can, you totally can. So everybody should check out their local studio, aerial art studio and maybe you'll find a new love in life as well. Yes, you've definitely inspired me. I still haven't tried it yet. But your photos, like, yeah, they're inspiring. Oh, thanks, Sarah. You need to come to Queenstown so we could take a class together. All right, I will. I will. I'll get there. You mentioned, you know, you have been an office dweller for most of your life. I know you worked really long hours in New York. But now you are your own boss, and I know you are struggling several different projects. Can you tell me a little bit more about your new, I guess, working style in New Zealand? Yeah, absolutely. So before I left the States, I had always worked for a company for salaries. So your typical kind of nine to five or ultimately it became more of a, you know, eight to nine or something like that at night. And I always work in that style before I left America. And I realized part of what was making me so unhappy was the fact that I had felt like I had no control over my schedule. And I found that I worked much better. working a little bit and on my own terms seven days a week, then I did working because I had to five days a week. So that's what got me thinking about how I can structure my work life in a way that allows me more freedom,

even if that meant a cut in salary or income. And I started by experimenting with just using my digital marketing skills, doing some consulting with clients. So basically contract out my experience in digital marketing to clients. And the beauty of that was that I could take on clients from anywhere. They didn't actually need to be where I was. So that allowed a lot of flexibility in itself. And because what I was offering is kind of more skill-based rather than having to sit in an office, I was able to create my own schedule.

So if I wanted to go for a hike on a Tuesday afternoon and make up that work on a Sunday morning I can have the flexibility of doing that. So I realized that that's what really suited me. So every other project I started taking on or job I started taking on, I set that as my priority. So instead of, you know, looking for a specific job title or a particular salary, I was more looking for number one criteria was whether or not it would allow me to keep the flexible lifestyle that really suited me. And it's, what I learned is that you, really have to definitely be a self-starter because you have to chase the business, obviously. And secondly, you might have to be more comfortable with cobbling together a couple of different

projects or a couple of different roles to fulfill that full income if flexibility and timing is really important to you. So for me, it's very much still iterative process. I'm learning more about myself every day as I do it. And I'm very, very happy that I decided to, you know, start exploring other ways of life, as I said to myself when I left New York. And could you just give an example of the type of services you offer? For example, what are you doing for the Wildlife Trust? Sure. So the Wildlife Trust is one of the roles I'm taking on at the moment.

It was a new trust that really needed help in terms of getting their kind of processes and infrastructure in place. So that's literally everything from creating a website to figuring out their donation process. And my particular trust is actually an umbrella trust for a lot of volunteer groups underneath. So one of my key roles is developing and maintaining the relationships with those community groups and also helping new community groups start up and help with conservation projects. So there's a lot of kind of public engagement, community building, quite a bit of. of marketing, relationship building.

So essentially, I'm wearing quite a lot of hats with this particular role. And the reason it was a match for me is because they needed someone with a startup mindset. And I very much like to turn chaos into structure. So we found a really good match for each other. And what's the name of your business? So my marketing business, I suppose, is called TZ Digital. But for the Wuketipu Wildlife Trust, I am just offering my service. as kind of a consultant, you know, a one-half-fits-all consultant, which is another benefit of

I found of running my own business. Like I can tailor my offerings based on my skill set to each client. So the WACA Typical Wildlife Trust didn't only need marketing help. They need, you know, someone to come in and create the infrastructure from the ground up. And because I wasn't tied to, you know, being at my marketing job nine to five every day, I was able to kind of craft that role so it can take them on as a client, even though it didn't really have anything to do with my digital marketing business. And I suppose flexibility is definitely something, and adaptability is definitely something I've learned over the last few years as I started my own business. Before I let you go, can we do a lightning round of your favorite places in Queensland?

Oh, yes. Okay, I will say what first comes to mind. Okay, you can give more than one. It doesn't have to be lightning. It usually ends up now. I think. Okay. Favorite bakery? Ferg Baker. So Ferg Baker is an offshoot of Ferg Burger, which is the biggest burger place in Queenstown. There are literally cues that will, people will queue up for about two hours to get this burger. But I personally go for the bakery next door where they have this incredible Boston cream donut. Oh, is there any like New Zealand type pastry worth trying? Yes, two things. If you're after something sweet, go for something like the Anzac cookie or the Pavlova. So Anzac cookie, some Australians will say it's actually their cookie, but it's this beautiful, delicious golden oatmeal cookie.

And Pavlova is actually this kind of meringue pie that you put kiwi fruit on and then whipped cream. So it's fantastic. The other pastry I wanted to quickly give a shout out to are savory pies. So savory pies are not popular back where I was from in America, but huge in, I think, I believe, European or at least UK culture and definitely Kiwi culture. So they're basically flaky pastry pies filled with your favorite meat or vegetable savory filling. I don't know why this hasn't caught on an America more. I was thinking about this the other day because I was eating an empanata and just thinking, what? Yeah. Like parochies and like so many things.

I feel like this should become bigger in America. I totally agree. It's delicious. It's filled with yumminess and it's portable. Yes. And yeah, I think at least like the Cornish pasty in Cornwall, England, like that's why they created it. It's portable. it was something like that the working men could take off at the beginning of the day and, you know, eat later on.

Indeed. So if you ask for a pie in New Zealand, you will not get a cherry or fruit pie. You will get a meat-filled pie. And do they have veggie options? They do have veggie options. Okay. How about favorite coffee shop? Ooh, my new favorite is this place called Yonder.

They do amazing brunch, very good coffee. and my favorite thing to get there is the kimchi bowl, which is beautiful brown rice with homemade kimchi and a poached egg on top. How about lunch spot? Lunch spot. I usually tend to grab something quick for lunch. So there are really good sushi places that you can just go and fill your own box of, you know, whatever kind of mix of sushi that you can take away.

My favorite one is called Hikari. It's just a hole-in-a-wall place that you grab and go and the sushi is always high quality. Or there's a fantastic Latin America place called Caribeys that does everything from Aripas to burritos to nachos and it's just a yum. It sounds like for being such a small place, it's quite international, the dining options. Yes. Although there are only about 20,000 long-term locals residing in Queenstown, at any given time, about 50,000 tourists come through. So we have the benefit of being a small community, but international flavors, because the rent in Queenstown for a shop is astronomical. And if you're not good, you won't survive for very long.

So we have pick of the litter when it comes to food here. Where do you guys go for dinner? My favorite, favorite place for dinner is called the Shoebaugh. Sherwood. It's actually a hotel, but they have an amazing bar and restaurant, and it's also a performance space as well. It's got a great vibe. It has a lot of things that appeals to my hipster sensibilities. So they are completely zero waste. It's a refurb kind of 80-style housing. They have a TP on site. They have a very experimental seasonal menu that rotates. The other day, I had an incredible dish that sounds kind of crazy, but it absolutely works.

It's a seafood linguine with popcorn. That does sound insane. Was it saki? Was the popcorn really saki? You must have been. No, no. I don't know how they kept it, you know, out of the sauce, but something about like the specific kernel taste was the perfect compliment

to the delicious seafood linguine. That is fascinating. Yeah, when I was in a. Berlin the other day, I went to this like sorbet popsicle stand called California Pops. It was so delicious and they had a popcorn flavor. I didn't go for it. I went for mango coconut. But popcorn's, yeah, trending.

It is trending. Pay attention, folks. The cool kids are doing it. All right. Where are we getting drinks, ting? Well, the Sherwood has an amazing wine list as well. But the place that I love to get nightcaps, mostly because it's, It's a bit more quiet.

It's always got a rowing fire going is I-Carts. I-Carts is right on the waterfront in Queenstown, and they have an incredible wine list, but also a fantastic whiskey selection as well. So as you're getting ready to wind down from your big day of hiking, you just curl up next to the fire with your McCallin-25-year and say, end the night on a top note. Sold. Do you have any cute bookstores in town? We do have bookstores, although they seem to be closing, and I don't really know why. I mean, I always go and still buy the books, although I'm a big fan of the library, too, so maybe that's why they're closing. But there is one left.

That's fantastic. It's called Bound. And it's both a vinyl shop, you know, vinyl records and bookstore. It's totally privately owned. the owners are two people that very obviously have a huge love for books and pick, you know, each title with great care. So if you ever want to kind of browse everything from, you know, David Bowie vinyl collection to the latest art coffee table book to, you know, children's books, they got it all and it's a great spot. Are there any culture tips we should know before we go?

One thing to know about Queenstown is that the caps can be quite expensive. Definitely consider taking the bus or actually, hopefully this is still true by the time your listeners listen to this, you know, perhaps years down the line. But hitchhiking is actually really, really popular and safe in New Zealand. I know that sounds very weird to, you know, by previously American years as well. But generally speaking, people are very, very kind of community focus. So a lot of times we'll, you know, just give rides to people just to help them out. A lot of people will ride share. Like we have Facebook communities that will post, hey, I'm driving up to Christchurch tomorrow. Does anybody want to come along and share the gas and have a have a yarn in the car? It's a very much a still a person-person type of community within New Zealand. And again, I think that comes from the smaller population. Everybody is still human to each other, if you know what I mean. And less fearful.

There's less fearmongering, probably. Yeah. Yes, I definitely think that's a huge part of it. So New Zealand is quite a safe country. And part of what manifests from that is actually a big hitchhiking culture. Yeah, just talking about like fear mongering and stuff. I mean, in American media, it's just very easy, I guess, to get ratings by scaring people. what is the media like in New Zealand?

Would you say it's more balanced? I think through my American eyes, it's definitely very delightful because they'll cover things like, you know, oh, a plane had to do an emergency landing in a field and the cows came up and licked the plane. Like that will be headline news, which I just find absolutely delightful and incredibly endearing. That said, I think if I were to look at it from someone's,

that grew up in New Zealand, you know, such as my partner, he says, you know, the major news outlets are still very much embroiled in political parties and therefore cannot provide a non-biased view of things. Although, you know, political party wise, the most right party in New Zealand is probably more left than our Democrat credit party in America. So, you know, definitely comes with kind of, you know, relativism there. But so, yeah, I suppose it's the eye of the beholder in terms of interpreting the media. I saw that you do some writing for the Source, New Zealand. Is that a good, is that something good to check out if we want to know what's happening?

It is, actually. Yeah, so the Source magazine is a local magazine covering arts and culture and entertainment around Queenstown, Arrow Town, and Wanica. So if you're ever in this part of the country, it's a fantastic little guide. It talks about local gigs. It will feature interviews with artists and musicians. It'll just have wacky stories as well. And it has a very kind of slightly sarcastic tongue-in-cheek humor, which I quite enjoy.

And you can find it actually for free in a lot of establishments around town. Or you could look them up online. just Google the source New Zealand. And how much should we tip at a restaurant or a bar? Is there a tipping culture in New Zealand? Great question. There is not a tipping culture in New Zealand, although I think, you know, especially guides, bus guides or tour guides, do definitely appreciate when, you know,

international travelers accidentally or purposefully tip them because, you know, they're obviously working hard to earn a living. so any extra is much appreciated, although definitely not required. And particularly in restaurants, it's definitely not expected to tip. And one other thing to note about restaurants is that a lot of cafes will actually, you'll actually pay at the counter rather than having a check come to your table. So, you know, a lot of poor international tourists will sit at their table for ages. And the staff is too polite to kind of, you know, let them know that they need to leave.

and they're just waiting for their check and all they had to do was go up to the counter. So that's just something to mind. Well, New Zealand sounds like an amazing place to live. What advice would you give to somebody who's thinking of making the move? Definitely look into, especially if you're under 31, the working holiday.

It's a fantastic way to be able to spend an extended period of time in New Zealand. And a lot of times people, one year or two years enough for them, One thing about New Zealand that's challenge is that it is far from other parts of the world. So access to, you know, great fashion or certain luxury goods are just not available. So it could be that, you know, working holiday visa is a perfect way to find out if a slightly more isolated country is for you. And if you're not under 31, then there are other options such as the skilled workers visa. So I'm not completely clear on exactly what type of skills are kind of super in demand at the moment.

But the New Zealand immigration website is really, really easy to navigate and full of clear information for details on that. So you can look into that. And if you happen to be here on holiday and meet a wonderful Kiwi man or woman, that could be your way in through a partnership visa as well. Well, thank you so much, Ting. It has been so great catching up with you. Where can people find out more about you? Oh, gosh. I do have some activity on Instagram.

My travel Instagram is Ting was here. And my aerial arts Instagram, you can follow all my misadventures on my aerial arts journey at Ting in the Air on Instagram. If you're taking on new clients, where can we find out more information about your business? The best way is probably to look me up either on LinkedIn. So if you Google or, sorry, search for Ting Zhang, that's T-I-N-G, last name Z-H-A-N-G, I'll be there. Or you can shoot me at email at Ting, T-I-N-G at T-Z-Digital.com. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Ting.

Thanks so much, Sarah. Super fun. How lovely is she? Let's all go visit Ting in Queenstown. But first, I am headed to Venice this weekend to celebrate my friend Carlotta's birthday. Happy birthday, Carlotta. Her family has a house on the beach. Did I mention how much I love my friends?

I will share some photos on Instagram if you are interested. As for everything that Ting and I talked about today, you can head on over to postcardacademy.com for links and photos. If you enjoy today's show, please subscribe. to the podcast and tell a friend about it. Recommendations from you mean a lot and are the best way to grow the show and keep it going. That's all for now. Thank you for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use

so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at sarahmicatel.com slash blank no more. Thank you.