Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Roadtrip through Turkey: Bursa, Ephesus, Pamukkale, and More

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Welcome, fellow citizen of the world. Today we are roadtripping through Turkey with my friend Michelle Warner-Martin. Michelle recently roadtripped across Turkey through:BursaEphesusPamukkaleKonyaIstanbul Adana Mersin CappadociaAnd she’s here to highlight the incredible experiences you can when traveling across Turkey. Michelle is a wedding photographer, which allows her to travel in the off season when things are less crowded and less expensive. Have you been to Turkey? Share your favorite memories with me! I’d love to hear from you on Instagram, or you can email me :)***Hi 👋 I’m your host Sarah Mikutel, an American expat in England. I love meeting fellow citizens of the world. Things I’m into: Stoicism, travel, and helping introverts communicate with confidence. Want to be friends? https://sarahmikutel.com/@sarahmikutelDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to Live Without Borders, a podcast about how to live the good life through stoicism, personal development, and cultural exploration. I'm your host, Sarah Megatel, an American in England who's here to help fellow citizens of the world like you make the most of the brief time you have here on Earth. It is time to make every moment matter. Welcome fellow citizen of the world. Today we are road-tripping through Turkey with my friend Michelle Warner-Martin. Michelle recently road triped across Turkey and she went to Bursa, Ephesus, Pamukali, Kenya, Istanbul, Adana, Mersin, Capodokia, she went all over the place. And she's here today to highlight the incredible experiences that you can have as well

traveling through Turkey. Michelle is a wedding photographer which allows her to travel in the off season when things are less crowded and also less expensive. This is a great episode. I hope you love it. And if you have any favorite Turkish memories, feel free to email me. or message me on Instagram, I would love to hear your travel stories about Turkey. On with the show. Welcome, Michelle. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hey, thanks, Sarah. I'm excited to chat with you.

You just celebrated a big birthday in Turkey. What made you decide to choose Turkey? I actually, my birthday is coming up in June, but I traveled this time of year because I don't like hot weather. But yes, I will be turning 50 in June. And when I was a kid, I lived in Adana at Inchralic Air Force Base. And those are my very first memories in life. And there's a town about an hour from Adana called Merson that has this castle in the sea. It's called Kizkalasi, which I believe does translate to castle in the sea or on the sea. And when I was about two years old, I have a photo of my mother.

and I standing on that beach in front of that castle. And the interesting thing from the shore, obviously, the castle's a bit off in the distance. But the interesting thing about that beach is I have really my very first memory from that beach. I remember running along the beach. And my mom was in the background saying, get over here. You're running too far ahead, you know.

And fair enough, a wave came in and knocked me down a bit. And I just remember my mom scooping me up and saying, I told you not to run ahead. So that was just a really interesting memory for me. I lost my mom almost five years ago, so it was extra meaningful to be able to go back to that space, and I took a picture of myself holding the picture. And it was really interesting because the first night that we went there, there was another gentleman walking around, and he saw my cousin traveled with me, and he saw me

being photographed holding this picture, and he came over and talked to us. And he was so taken by the story that he, and proud, I think, really, because this is where he's from, that I would travel all the way from the other side of the world to experience this moment in time with this castle. He wanted to take a photo with me and the picture, which was really sweet. And that's the kind of spirit that you get in Turkey. So hospitable, welcoming, loving, encouraging. If you had a question, it was everything that they could do to help you. And really, I don't know very much Turkish. I know enough to be polite. but I was able to go and have good conversations with people, even just using the Translate app.

They would sit down and you could go back and forth and have your questions answered, and nobody ever seemed too busy to take that time, which just is a really wonderful experience to have when you're traveling. So you use the Google Translate app. Yes, a lot. Very handy, very handy. And I know that you are an adventurous traveler, you're fine doing solo trips or all sorts of different kinds of trips. You initially started out having a group tour for this trip. What happened

with that? So initially, I decided to go on a group tour because I wanted to just not think too much about it and just go and let someone else take care of me. But about a month and a half, I would say, before the tour, I got a message saying, oh, there's not enough people for your date. We're going to cancel the tour and put you on another date or cancel entirely. So, I started thinking about it and I travel so much on my own and I had already booked my flights. So I thought, you know what, I can do this. Let's just go it alone. And so I did. And I planned it. And it was actually really easy and fun. And I had a lot of flexibility that I wouldn't have had otherwise. So I'm really glad I did it that way. So give me an overview of how you spent your two weeks and then we can dive deeper into a few different places.

So I went to Istanbul for four days, which was amazing, of course. So much to say about Istanbul that I think we can. have our own show just about that. But from there, I did fly to Capodokia, which was also very simple to do, a really easy flight about an hour, just from the main, there's two airports in Istanbul, but I flew out of the main IST is the airport code to Kayseri, then rented a car and drove for the next 12 days, 11 days, all over the country. So we started in Capodokia. Then I have a personal connection to the Adana area, also Merson, which is right along the coast.

So I decided to drive down there. That's maybe not necessarily on the specific tourist track of most people, but I had wanted to go down there to see where I lived when I was a child. So I drove down there. Had a couple of long days in the car because I decided to do that because it was quite a distance. And then from there we drove to Konya. Kenya is really a beautiful place. We'll talk a little bit more about that. But from there, I drove to Palmakale and then to Izmir,

and then went up to Bursa after that, and then back to Istanbul. And I rented the car from Kayseri, but I did a one-way. So I picked it up in Kayseri and dropped it off in Istanbul. So a lot of times it's extremely expensive to do a one-way car rental, but it actually wasn't outrageous in Turkey. So I decided to just pay the extra. I think it was $200 or $300 and just do it. And you just rent this at the airport and drop it back off at the airport?

So I picked it up in Capodokia and I dropped it off at the airport in Istanbul. So that made it really easy because Turkey is such a huge country. It really would have been difficult to try to circle back unless I wanted to fly back from Capodokia, which you certainly could do, but it would have been a lot of driving. I know that you really liked Bursa. So how about we start there? What about Bursa appealed to? I loved all of it, of course, but Bursa for some reason was the thing that kind of stole my heart unexpectedly. I tend to, the more I travel, I tend to realize that I'm a fan of, in my mind, what I call second cities, cities that maybe aren't as enormous and overwhelming. Say in Istanbul or, you know, a Rome or London, that kind of thing. I love.

those cities, of course, but they are very overwhelming. So when you're going there for a short period of time, sometimes it takes a lot to sort of orient yourself or really get the essence of that location, right? What I loved about Bursa is it's still a very big, thriving, wonderful city, but it was so accessible. Also, Bursa is where the Iskinder Kabab is from. We had that there, and it was so good. I also had it in Istanbul as well, but I don't know, just having it in Bursa seemed extra cool. But if you're not familiar with Iskender Kabab, it's just basically meat with bread cubes underneath that they pour butter over it, which sounds weird, but it's amazing. And then there's this tomato-y kind of sauce that goes over all of it. And it is so good, you definitely

need to have it. What can us vegetarian tab, or is there a Hulumi wrap or something over there? Not Hulumi necessarily. Hulumi is my great love. So trust me, if I found Hulumi, I would have had it. But there is so much fresh, delicious food there that I wouldn't see having an issue eating vegetarian there at all. I had a lentil soup. Lentil soup is a big thing over there. It's so good and it's so satisfying. I had at least one meal where I just had a lentil soup and a salad. It was fresh and delicious and incredible.

Yeah, you wouldn't have any problem making it as a vegetarian. So what did you do when you were there? We went to the bazaar, which is right, which was right outside of our hotel actually. And it was so cool. It was very much like what you would expect from a grand bazaar in Istanbul type of experience, but it was much more local and homey. And you could tell that it was frequented by people who actually live there. There was a lot less agal type of experiences where people would try to pull you inside. You could just roam freely. And it was just a really beautiful local vibe. I guess this is the best way I can describe it. Did you buy anything at the bazaar?

I was getting pretty thin on the space in my bag, but I did buy some Turkish towels. I bought some, I don't know, I have scarves. I'm such a sucker for scarves when I travel. And I always love to buy flat art from local artists, if that makes sense. No, it does. I love doing that. Print. Yeah, absolutely. So I like to buy an art print or things like that. So I bought one of those in Bursa as well. So, yeah, that was really great. What else did you do there? Oh gosh, my very favorite thing, possibly of the whole trip, to be honest. We went to a Mevlana experience meditation, also known as a whirling dervish, as most people would probably recognize it as. I remember very distinctly going to one when I was a kid in Turkey, so it was really important to me to go as an adult. So when we were in Kenya, I wanted to go, but it was only available on a day that we weren't there, because that's the one that I saw when I was a kid.

But when we were going to Versa, I did some research. And I found one that was just a local, one through the cultural center that they do every night and it's free to whoever wants to come. But there's really not, it's not tourist directed. It's just a meditation that they do locally and it's to preserve the history and to respect the history of the meditation and Islam and that sort of thing. And so I really was excited to go to that. And the greatest part of it was, it was such a beautiful moment of,

what we do in life when we travel, we are always looking for that true cultural experience. We're always looking for the real local thing. And I really found it there. This could have been a church basement anywhere in America, for example, the way that they ran it. There were kids running around, chasing each other playing tag before the whole thing. You could tell it was a very family environment. And then people were so welcoming. We were given tea everywhere in Turkey, but especially at this experience of the Mevalonna. They kept welcoming us, encouraging us to sit in a certain spot so we would get the best view. There was a seventh grade girl who came up and wanted to practice her English with me,

and she was just so sweet. She kept hugging me and saying that we were friends, and it was just a beautiful moment. You know, and her mom kept thanking me. And yeah, I just, it was such a beautiful. full experience even before they got to the actual whirling dervish portion of things that my heart was just so full. And then by the time we actually saw the, I hesitate to say performance, but that's really the only way to describe it. But by the time we got to that actual point in the evening, I was already so overcome with gratitude

that just seeing that experience really made the whole trip for me. I was so thankful and grateful to be there. That's a really beautiful story. For anyone who doesn't know what the whirling dervish are, how would you explain that? This will tie into my experience in Conia, because when we were in Conia, that is where the Mevlana or Mevlevi, I believe. That's what it is called, began. And many people will recognize the poet Rumi. He was from Conia, and his teachings and sort of philosophies on life, that's what they founded the order of the Mevlevi and the Mevlana after.

hand. What happens during the Worling Dervish is when they go into a bit of a meditative trance, and it's a very religious experience for them. And they spin for probably a good 20, 30 minutes. It's pretty remarkable to watch, because if that were me, I would definitely fall over. They have adults and children in the group that we were watching. There were three kids that were spinning as well, which was pretty remarkable. And it all ties into this respectful meditation that was created in honor of Rumi. And you can actually go to visit Rumi's tomb in Konya, which we did when we were there, at the Mevlana, Mevlan, excuse me, museum.

So it all kind of ties in, and this is a very culturally beautiful thing that happens all around Turkey. However, I really encourage people to see it either in Kenya or to find an experience like what we did, because a lot of them are tourists geared, and it's something that you pay for, and you just go see it. not that there's any disrespect to the ritual. I'm sure it's still very meaningful. But I found that this was very personalized, very localized, and just incredibly meaningful and beautiful. Do you have any other stories you want to share about your locals? Gosh, so many. Oh, I had this

really cool guy that we met in Capodokia. He owned the hotel that we stayed at. It was been in his family forever. I will give a plug for him because he's just incredible. It was called the Vineyard Cave Suites. and his name is Osman. And he is such a remarkable guy. He would literally, he has this notebook with all these different languages, and he color codes the different languages, and he practices. And so if a person comes in from China, we were having breakfast in the breakfast room one morning,

and this gentleman came in from China, and he's, you know, ni'haw, you know, just what this incredible man from Turkey is learning, all these different languages so that he can provide a better service. And just not just that, but a connection to his guests. Like, where in the world are you going to find somebody like that? Just such a cool person. And we ended up taking a tour that his father led.

And his father had grown up in the area of Goremi. And he showed me all these different places. But he remembers back when people still lived in the cave dwellings in Goremi because that really only stopped being allowed, I think, in the 50s. Wow, that sounds like Matera in Italy. Yeah, exactly. And just to have this guy who had actually lived or had his parents live in these dwellings and to really get an inside tour from him, it was remarkable.

It really was. And, yeah, I just, that struck me because, you know, when you go someplace at Capadokia, it is extremely touristy. That is what the whole economy is based on. So you're not necessarily expecting super personalizing. service. That sounds like a really special experience. Also, you mentioned that he was greeting people at breakfast. Did you, was there a typical Turkish breakfast that you were having at these places? That particular place, it was all laid out on the table, but they had different nuts and

meats and seeds and fruits and granola, everything you could possibly imagine. And then he made omelets for us, which were enormous. We finally learned after the first day to only order one omelette because there was no way we could eat it. But yeah, I was just filled with so many delicious things. And everywhere we stayed all around Turkey had some sort of variation on that theme. Capodokio, it's famous for its hot air balloon rides. And I think you had planned to doing it, but you weren't able to. Right. So what happens every day, and because I traveled in January, I knew that this was a high possibility. Every day the government decides whether or not it's allowed for the balloons to go. So it's not up to the tour operators, which I think,

is probably best. So every day I would get a text saying, it's been canceled for tomorrow. We had three days in Capodokia. And they do recommend that you plan on at least three days there because it is, there are days that the balloons don't fly. But ultimately, after the three days, the balloons didn't fly any of the days. And in some ways, when I first planned the trip, if I didn't know that in advance, I might have felt a little bit of disappointment. But Capadokia is such a cool place, whether you take the balloon ride or not, that honestly, while I did expect, or I should say I did feel a little bit disappointed, it really did not impact my experience there. I still would have gone. And that just gives me good incentive to go back. But one tip I did want to share that I'm not sure a lot of

people know, because I didn't know this, is they actually do balloon rides in Pamukali as well. And I only know that because when I opened our window one morning, I looked out and there were a bunch of balloons outside of window. Not a bunch. There were a few. It's not the same level of spectacle as what happens in Capodokia, of course. I don't even know how many balloons go up, many balloons. There was maybe only three or four. But if it's an experience that you really want to have, then you're going through both regions. Definitely investigate Pamacali because they have them there as well, which I did not know until I got there. Yeah. Capadokia is Instagram city when it comes to hot air balloon. So perhaps Pamukali could be a nice alternative.

Definitely. I'm sure it's less expensive too because it is quite expensive in Capodokia. Yeah. So what else did you do in Capadogia then since you weren't able to do the hot air balloon? They have the museum. Oh gosh, the name is escaping me right now, but you'll know. I think it's called the Goremi Open Air Museum, actually, now that I think about it. And that is, you go in and it's just remarkable. They're church spaces. You're not really allowed to take photos inside of those. But it's just all carved into the rock. It's where the cave dwellings existed that people lived in, like I said, up until the 50s. which is so crazy when you think about it. There's also, there's Jeep tours and things that they'll take you out to the further reaches of the region to see more rugged areas, which in retrospect, I do recommend if you want to go out there, you should take a Jeep because we had our tour guide drive our car. Okay. The day that we went on our tour, and I was getting a little bit nervous when he started driving over some of these spots and hitting.

boom along the way. Luckily, I took out full coverage. But anyway, so we did not take a Jeep tour, but in retrospect, that might not be a bad idea. So there's a lot of things to do there. There is actually a Worling Derrish show there as well, which they'll come and pick you up from your hotel. We didn't do it there, but I know it exists. And also just really a lot of great shopping. There's the Uchisar Castle, which is really neat, which is the town over from Boramey. And please, folks from Turkey, please forgive me if I, I am mispronouncing the names of your beloved country. I do appreciate your patience of me.

Yeah, it's just a very beautiful region. And really, we found plenty to do in three days, the three days that we were there. One hot tip, I will say. If you like Turkish towels, definitely buy them there, buy them either in Garami or I think I bought some in Bursa as well. Because they're pretty expensive when you buy them, like, for example, in the U.S., I bought them for like $15 over there, and they're absolutely gorgeous. In fact, I gave you one as a present. I love it. Yes, I love it.

So thank you. Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, I bought as many as my suitcase would hold. Did you end up going on a hot air balloon in Pamacali? No, because by the time I realized they did it, we were really only going to be there that day. So, yeah, we were a little bit tight on our time. But next time, I'll definitely plan for it. What did you do when you were there?

So we visited Pomacali, of course, which is the actual proverb teams. They call it the, I think I call it the, it's not Sand Castle, but it's something Castle. Forgive me for not remembering now. But it is these travertines filled with the bluest water. And there are these, it's so hard to explain it unless you really should, if you haven't been there, you really should just Google it. The water just cascades down from these travertines. And it's just absolutely beautiful.

And when you visit the site, you have to do it completely barefoot because they don't want to cause any damage to the travertines themselves. So it can be a little slippery. You definitely need to be careful when you're walking along there. But it's very beautiful and definitely worth going. And the neat thing about Pomacali is it's actually bundled into the ancient city Hyeropolis or Heropolis, which was remarkable. I actually loved that city. We spent probably four hours wandering around there. It has an incredible, just the ruins there are truly incredible. I don't even really know how to describe it. It definitely ranked up with Delphi, to me personally, like that level of beauty or even Ephesus to some extent. It's different than Ephesus, but it's really a

beautiful city, and I highly encourage people to go see it. It also contains, for those who are interested in biblical history, there is two cities in the Pomacali area that are mentioned in the book of Revelation. One is Hieropolis, and then the other one is, I believe it's Laudicia, but I am possibly pronouncing that incorrectly. That particular city is actually mentioned as one of the seven churches of Asia in the book of Revelation. So for those who are really interested in the biblical history and the significance of that, it's very cool to be in these spaces and see these things that were directly out of the Bible. The natural beauty and just the history sounds incredible.

I think they have thermal baths there as well. Were you guys floating around? We didn't. It was a little chilly. and we were short on time, but you certainly can do that. That's the whole, I guess instead of focusing on the word Travertine really is explaining that is a thermal bath. So when you walk, it is the water is not cold, so it feels nice. It's really, yeah, it's a neat experience.

I would love to soak in there sometime. Next time when I come back, I'm going to take a little longer and spend more time in that area. I'm definitely going to join you for that. Yes, please. Some thermal baths and history. I don't know what else could be better. on a trip. Exactly. Exactly. You would love it. So you mentioned Ephesus, which was also part of your trip, but that's been on my list forever. So please tell me what you got to see there. Oh my gosh,

Ephesus has also been on my list forever. And I'm so glad we got to go. Also glad a couple of quick tips. It's nothing earth chattering. These are pretty common sense things, but definitely arrive as early as you possibly can, hopefully when they first open. Being there in January, it wasn't all that busy. But if you want that sort of big photo that everybody wants it, the Library of Selsus, without a bunch of people standing in front of it or climbing on it, it's definitely best to get there as soon as they open. But it was just, I don't even know how to describe it, going and seeing that view of the Library of Selsus and just standing in front of it and seeing the intricacies of how it was carved. And you can also walk behind it

and kind of get all the detail from the back. Because it's really just the facade of the library that's left. Everything else was lost to history. But that, of course, is the showstopper when you go there. But there's also two big theater. One's quite a quite large theater when you first walk into Ephesus, and then there's a smaller one at the very end of the city. Also, your ticket allows you into the site,

but there's a small fee for going into the terrace houses where the wealthy, used to live and it's not very much it's very small it's 20 lira or something like that. I highly recommend you spend the extra 20 lira and go in or if you have the museum pass for turkey it will you can just use that to get in but what a remarkable site. The mosaics that are fully uncovered that were completely preserved in there seeing the terrace houses. The higher you climbed up the more incredible it got and definitely worth the extra a little bit of cost and time and effort to climb up to the top. It's all enclosed, so there's a platform that you walk all the way up, and you get to look down into these houses of the wealthy, and it's really

beautiful. Now, what is the time period of this place? So, I believe it was 10th century BC, and I believe they've been excavated for about 150 years, but they say that 80% or so of the ruins have really yet to be excavated, which is pretty crazy. One thing I did want to mention, though, is nearby, not on the site of Ephesus, but nearby is the Temple of Artemis, which is one of the ancient wonders, or sorry, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world, rather, and all that's left is one column of this particular temple, but it is quite striking, and I definitely recommend that you see it. It's free to see. It's just right off one of the main roads in town, and you can just turn right off and go look at it.

wander around the ruins there. So definitely worth doing. The house where they brought Mary at the end of her life was around there too. Yeah, it's all in that same area. It's very easy to drive to. The house of the Virgin Mary is a little bit in the mountains, but it is not a difficult drive at all. And it's probably, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes from Ephesus proper. Yeah. So it sounds like this is the type of trip that you either need to have a car or you need to be part of a tour or something. it doesn't sound train accessible or bus accessible even. Absolutely. You definitely need a car or some type of tour, especially if you're going to do it in this

time frame that we did. In retrospect, I think I would have done maybe a month in Turkey instead of only two weeks. But again, it just gives me good inspiration to come back. I tend to visit a place, digest it a little bit, and then obsess about it and then go back. So that's probably what I will do with Turkey. Did you stay in Ephesus? Or was this just sort of a place that you go for the historical sites and then you stay elsewhere? Oh, the town around Ephesus is actually called Selchuk, and we stayed in Selchuk.

So it's only about 10 minutes from the Ephesus city. Ephesus really is just the ruins. So you don't stay actually in that area. But yeah, the town around there is Selchik. Is there anything worth seeing in that town, or is that kind of just a place where people sleep when they're doing other things? No, actually, it's really cool. There's a lot of very interesting things in the town. There's a really cool mosque that we went to there. Also, there's some really great restaurants. In fact, one of my favorite restaurants I went to on the whole trip was in the town,

and it's just called Ephis restaurant. It was right next to our hotel, and it was delicious, one of the best meals we had in Turkey, actually. So what did you have there? It was this incredible shrimp dish that they cooked with tomatoes and they cooked it inside of this clay pot, I guess you could say. And it was just absolutely delicious. It was so good. You know, the thing, much like cultures like Italy and things like that, the simple things are so good there. Like the bread is really good. The salads are so fresh and wonderful. I know a lot of times I was hesitant because I've been told over time maybe not to eat the produce over there because of the water or what have you. but I really didn't have any problems with salads.

They were so fresh and yummy. Another area I wanted to bring up, though, that was in the Celtic area, is this little historical area just in the mountains called Syrians, and I may be pronouncing that wrong. But there's a lot of shopping there. There's beautiful houses that are built into the hill. It's just a really unique little area to go and wander around and spend the day. We were only able to stay for a few hours,

but I would definitely go back and spend more time there. There's a lot of actual artisans there that there, but doesn't feel just like your basic touristy kind of shopping where you're just buying souvenirs. I bought this absolutely gorgeous handmade backpack that was sewn together. It was this beautiful red color, this handmade latch that is on it. It was just really lovely. And the man who made it, he gave me the card and told me,

This is lifetime. Anything you ever need, just let me know. And it just felt more authentic than just a typical touristy shopping district. I know there is a lot of tourists that come through there. Yeah. But it felt like there were more real artisans there to me. Well, it sounds like another one of your wonderful local experiences. Yeah, definitely. So we talked about Bursa, we talked about Ephesus.

We talked about Pamukale. Koenya. What else did you like about Konya? That is where the Mevlana Museum is and the Tomb of Rumi, which I highly recommend you go and experience. It's really beautiful and very peaceful because they are paying homage to the religious ritual of Mevalana of Worling Dervish. But we had this such a good meal there. It's really popular in that area to have sort of what's called like a Turkish pizza. and it's this long, thin bit of pita with meat or cheese or whatever it is, there's definitely

vegetarian options as well. And it's just really good and simple, but I think the best thing in most cultures are the simple things. And I believe it's called etly eczmek in Turkish, and it's just so good. I don't know how to describe it any better than that. It's simple and homey and delicious, and it feels very much like, even though you're eating it in a restaurant, you feel like somebody's mom made it. it for you, you know what I mean? Which are always the best kind of meals. But we also stayed at this

really lovely. It was basically, it was a hotel, but it felt more like a B&B in a traditional sense. They just, they were very wonderful people to be around and they just were very welcoming. So I will definitely give you all the information of where we stayed when we were there. It sounds like you saw a ton of natural beauty when you were in Turkey. What images stick out to you the most. And you're a photographer, a professional photographer, so I'm curious what caught your eye and what stayed with you. Everything, everywhere I go, I'm looking at patterns of light and different objects and scenery. Really just driving between the sites, there's a lot of space between things. So you're driving for quite a while, oftentimes driving through mountainous

regions, suddenly a beautiful lake will just appear. And One morning we were driving along and we stopped and there was this gorgeous vista of mountains and the lake there and there were these gentlemen just in a small like fishing boat and it just felt very idyllic. And you'll see scenes like that all over turkey as you drive through. What's your favorite photo that you took on this trip? Ooh, that's a tough one. Sarah, hitting me with the tough questions. Gosh, I honestly there were some from everywhere, which I know is the chicken, though. answer, but one of the favorites really was when you go to in front of the library of Celsius

and Ephesus, of course, you're going to take the facade, but go ahead and walk up on there and take a wide-angled photo from below so that you're shooting up toward the arches of the facade. Just so much incredible detail under there. And absolutely one of those sort of wow photos. when you look back and you see just how big it is really and how tall that space is. It's not something you'd fully appreciate when you're looking right at it. You've got to kind of get underneath it and see it. That's definitely one. But I mean, I could honestly pick 100 photos and still not have a favorite.

It's just everywhere is so visually stimulating and beautiful. One thing I did really love is there's this beautiful covered bridge sort of structure in Bursa, which really kind of reminds me of Florence in a way. I don't know, there's just a similarity to it. And you can actually walk through and there's shops on either side, just like the Ponabecchio, you know. And that bridge was really incredible because there's sort of a valley underneath it that you can walk down through the park. And so you can really get this sort of wide, full view of the bridge from a low spot. So that just emphasizes the grandure of it. Yeah. You've shared some really great experiences. Are there any other must-have

experiences that you want to mention that you haven't shared yet? You know, it's funny. I've talked so much about Turkey, but I have really not mentioned Istanbul very much. And I think in some ways, I almost don't need to because there's so much that was written and spoken about of Istanbul, which is absolutely worthy of it. I think one of the most goosebumps kind of inspiring moments for me in Istanbul, though, and it happened right in the middle of Sultanate, which is the most tourist district, I would say, in the city, is when the call to prayer happens between the Blue Mosque and the Iosophia, they actually share it. So part of the call will happen at the Iosophia, and then it's sort of like a call in response between the two mosques. And there's a huge, like, open space between the two,

but they're facing each other. So if you're standing in the middle of that open space and you're just hearing this call to prayer coming from the Ayasophia and then again this response from the Blue Mosque, it's just so beautiful and grounding. And even though I am not someone who practices Islam, I find hearing the call to prayer five times a day would center me in a way that I had not really experienced in other cultures.

Being in that environment, But even if you're not necessarily praying in that time, it brought a mindfulness to me, an awareness, of gratitude. I would just stop and be thankful for that moment. And it was just really beautiful. I find that aspect of the culture to be so fascinating and hauntingly beautiful, the hearing the different imams doing the call, all different sounds throughout the city. Because you'll hear, especially in a big city like Istanbul, you're going to hear. the immediate call to prayer that you're listening to, but you're also going to hear the echoes of it happening all of the city. And I found that to be incredibly impactful and beautiful. So that was one of

my very favorite memories, which just goes to show you, places are really touristy places are touristy for a reason. I think sometimes you get, yeah, you get a bad rap because it's a really visited place, but you can still have incredibly meaningful experiences even in the midst of this really high touristed area. Yeah. And we saw a lot, all the greats and his you know, the Basilica Cister and all the places you go to, but really just walking across, there's the bridge across the Golden Horn where you're crossing over the Bosphorus and just watching the fishermen that are hanging their poles off the side and all the boats and the people. I mean, you're just never going to get any better people watching them in Istanbul.

It's just such an incredible city and I feel very fortunate to have been able to visit. You showed me these magnets that you got to keep your scarf closed on your head. So the mosques are definitely worth visiting in Istanbul, but the women have to cover up. Do you want to tell me about your attire? Absolutely. They offer scarves there at each model. Well, I shouldn't say every mosque does, but a lot, especially the big ones, offer things to cover your head there.

So if you forget something, don't worry for the most part. also easy to pick up a scarf when you're there. But I wanted to bring something that I wanted to make sure that I was dressed appropriately and respectfully. So I actually bought a hijab from a company called Lala Hajabs. I really love their very beautiful scarves and they're just a lovely family. They're pretty popular on TikTok. Their name is the Sali family. But anyway, they sell these great magnets just to hold your hijab correctly. I am by no means very good at putting a hijab. on. So the magnets were super helpful for me to keep everything in place and they're really strong. And I actually use them all the time on if I'm wearing a sweater and I want to close it up more. I will put my little magnet on or if a third is a little lower than I'd like it to be, I'll pop a magnet there and they hold all day and they're great. So yeah, they're very useful. I never knew I needed a hijab magnets in my daily life. But I use them quite often. I know. I think that it sounds quite handy. All right, Michelle, the next time you go to Turkey, I'm jumping in the car with you. listen, you're always welcome. We've traveled before and we'll travel again. And thanks for having

me at your house. That was so fun. Absolutely. All right, Michelle, thank you so much for joining me today. Where can we find out more about you? Well, my main website is michelmartinphotography.com. I'm a full-time photographer, so that's where I, you can contact me through there. I also have an Instagram page, which is at Michelle Martin Photo. And I am on Facebook as Michelle Warner Martin which I'm always happy to accept friend requests from people who are like-minded travelers and always love to talk travel. Thank you, Michelle. Come back and visit me soon.

Yes, I can't wait. Talk to you soon. That's all for now. Go ahead and follow the show or hit subscribe so you can hear more episodes like this. And if you would like my help taking bold action on your own dreams, like living abroad, changing careers, and other life transitions, visit Live Without Borders Podcast.com. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful.

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