Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Santo Domingo: The Perfect Travel Destination for Beaches, Chocolate, and Culture

Episode Date: May 24, 2019

Lily Girma is a lawyer turned travel writer who’s spent a significant amount of time in some of the most beautiful destinations in the world, including Belize and Jamaica. In the Santo Domingo episode of the Postcard Academy travel podcast, Lily explains why she now calls the Dominican Republic home.    We talk about the cultural events you can’t miss, the best beaches to go to, which chocolate plantations to visit — that’s right, this holiday can combine beach and chocolate. Does it get any better? Lily also talks about the history of slavery and dictatorship in the DR, and the cultural reawakening that’s happening in the country. Visit postcard academy.co for links to everything we talk about.   I’m your host, Sarah Mikutel. Did you know I host another show called Podcasting Step by Step? Check it out if you’ve been wanting to start a podcast. Every week, I break down ‘how to podcast’ with a little loving motivation to give you the skills and confidence you need to finally launch that show of your dreams.   Ready to travel? Sign up for my newsletter and get your free guide to cheap airfare.    Thank you so much for listening to the Postcard Academy travel podcast. I know you’re busy and have many listening options, so it means a lot to me that you’re here. You are the best.   This podcast is brought to you by Audible. Not a member yet? Postcard Academy listeners can get a FREE audiobook and a 30-day free trial if you sign up via audibletrial.com/postcard   This podcast is also brought to you by World Nomads. Need simple and flexible travel insurance? Get a cost estimate from World Nomads using their handy calculator at postcardacademy.co/insuranceDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to the Postcard Academy. I'm your host, Sarah Micatel, and I think I have found the perfect beach destination for us, Santo Domingo. My guest is Lily Germa, a lawyer-turned travel writer, who has authored several guidebooks on the Caribbean, and she is also written for Lonely Planet, afar, and other great travel publications. Lily also partners with different tourism boards, and writing travel guides, Lily had spent a significant amount of time in some of the most beautiful destinations in the world, including Belize and Jamaica. And in this episode, she will explain why she has decided to base herself in Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic. She talks about the cultural events we cannot miss, the best beaches to go to, which chocolate

plantation to visit. That's right, this holiday can combine beach and chocolate. I don't think it gets any better. also talks about the history of slavery in the DR, which is something I didn't know anything about, and the cultural reawakening that is happening in the country. For show notes on everything we talk about, head on over to postcardacademy.com. Now into my conversation with Lily. Welcome, Lily.

Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you for having me. So you are an expat living in the Dominican Republic. Where did you grow up? I was born in Ethiopia and I left when I was just almost a one-year-old baby. And I grew up in Coddivar, in West Africa. And I basically lived there for 15 years. I went to a French school there, a French college called Jean Mermont.

So all my studies were in French. And so it was very early on, I realized that I was already pretty different, you know, because I had an Ethiopian family. My parents were Ethiopian. So at home, it was very much Ethiopian. You know, I learned to speak my language, just listening to my family. And everything we ate and everything was Ethiopian. So then I would go to school and everything was Francophone, you know, French.

And I had friends from all over the world at a young age. And you went on to live in many different countries, right? I did. So when I was about 14, my dad, who's a huge education and like fan, you know, he's always believed in sending us everything about his decisions were made around school and education. He wanted us to experience studying abroad. And he offered me a chance to finish the last part of my high school in England. It was actually a choice. He said I could finish in French or I could go.

to England. And of course, by then I was already completely in love with travel and fascinated. And my siblings were already going to school in England. So I said, yes, I want to go. And so I went to a boarding school, an all-girls boarding school in Bournemouth in the south of England, which was complete culture shock. And I went to that school for about four years, did my GCSEs and started the first year A-levels. And then, you know, in between, I would go back home. to visit family, like on holidays, and go back to West Africa, to every coast. How did you end up basing yourself in the Dominican Republic?

I got this gig to write to take over Moon Belize guidebook for Moon Guides. And then I got another one, which was called Moon Belize Keys, focusing only on the Keys. And then a couple, I think it was maybe, I don't know, maybe a year after that, but my publisher called me and said, we're thinking of doing a brand new guidebook on the Dominican Republic. You know, it's really an upcoming destination now. And it's actually the destination with the most visitors in the whole Caribbean.

And we know you love the region. So I wondered if you'd be interested in, you know, in writing it. And it's not just writing it. I also have to prepare a proposal. So it's not like a shoe in. Like they were giving me the opportunity, but I did have to prepare a proposal for it. So I said, yeah, definitely. So how are you allowed to live and work in Santo Domingo or in the Dominican Republic?

Do you have a visa? So I don't work with anyone here. I do my work online mostly. So your location independent. Yeah. So basically I still get paid, but I get paid by U.S. entities. So like my publisher or whoever I'm writing for at the moment. moment. You know, I get like gigs from different places, really. I do content marketing too.

So do you need a residency visa or no? Yes, yes, I do. And my partner is Dominican. So, but I haven't done all that yet for some reason. Are they pretty laid back about this stuff? They're pretty laid back here. I mean, I'll give you an example. The first year I did my, when I did my book, I spent a full year living here, literally, without going outside. And when I left, I just pay an exit fee. They have scaled immigration exit fees, depending on how long you overstayed, you know, one to three months or up to six months or whatever, whatever. And it's super reasonable considering.

I think I paid like $100 or something. I don't know, which, you know, for the privilege of staying here is really nothing. Sounds good. So could you give us a visual snapshot then of Santo Domingo? And where is it geographically? What would you say the postcard looks like? We have the Caribbean Sea. It's about actually two blocks away from me.

It lines the colonial zone area. And then the further west you go of Santo Domingo, it becomes more commercial and modern. You know, that's the modern side of Santo Domingo. And there's a lot of colonial architecture, right? Oh, absolutely. Santa Domingo is actually the first city, quote, unquote, in the new world. So basically it's the first Spanish settlement in the Americas was Santo Domingo.

And so you have here some of the most iconic buildings dating back to the 1500s, 16th century, including the first hospital that was ever built, first university, first paved road, Calle Las Damos. In the Caribbean, you mean? No, in the Americas. Okay. In the whole Americas. Very few people know that.

Wow. Yeah. That is a surprise, yeah. First military fortress, Fortalesa Osama, first one ever built by the Spaniards in the whole Americas. So the colonial city is actually used to be a walled city in itself. And now is the most visited area because of the history and has lots of museums and stuff like that. And it's a UNESCO World Heritage Site. I do love exploring those UNESCO sites.

So what experiences should we have when we're visiting Santo Domingo? So Santo Domingo offers a lot of different experiences. It's a real place of, you know, it sounds cliche, but it really has a lot of contrasts. So I would say the first thing you need to do is visit the colonial city. There are a lot of really charming boutique hotels in the colonial city. You know, historic buildings turn into hotels. And it's a pedestrian area, which is a high. hard to find in Santa Domingo.

And so it's great. You could just walk around, go to the museums here. There are some of the key museums. You can also visit the Fortaleza Osama, which is the main, in the military fortress. You could visit El Casal de Colon, which is actually the used to be the home of Diego Colon, son of Christopher Columbus, turned into a museum.

So you can see all of their period furniture and all of that. You could also go to Museo de Las Casas Reales, which tells the history, basically, of the Republic, from colonization to days of slavery. So, yeah, I would go museum hopping. I would just take in the architecture, the buzz. I mean, it's a very cultural place. Antolomingo is the heart of Dominican culture, you know, countrywide. So this is where everything happens.

And, yeah, and it's remained very authentic. because really tourism exists, but it's mostly business-related tourism. And now that the colonial city has been renovated over the past four years, there's been gradual renovation, more tourists are coming here, but it's still very much a business destination. So you mentioned that it's the cultural hub. What is Dominican culture like? Oh, my, it's very colorful.

The main culture is music. You'd be really hard-pressed to go outside and not. listen or hear echoes of like marangue or bachata it's it's friendly it's loud it's sitting on the you know sitting outside on the corner of a colmado a colmado is a it's like a local corner store that has a lot of purposes it's it could be a grocery store but it's also you know a bar at night sometimes some of them turn into a dense spot you know but basically it's a it's a very communal type of culture. You know, it's very community, very family driven. And it's, yeah, it's just very colorful and full of energy. And I think that's part of the reason why I fell in love with it.

So when you're in the mood for some culture, where do you like to go? You mentioned there's some museums. What are some of your favorite spots? Yeah. So for culture, I have several places that I always tap into. One of my favorite museums is called the Museo Memorial de la Resistencia Dominicana. So basically it's a museum about the resistance. And it covers the period that was basically the bloodiest period in Dominican history when Rafael Trojillo was in power for over 30 years. And when was this for all of us who are not familiar with this history? Sure, this is between 1930 and 1961.

Okay. He was in power for 31 years and he was a dictator and, basically committed a lot of atrocities. He's actually, it's said that he's probably killed up to like 30,000 people. Wow. Yes, people disappeared. You know, anyone who's anti-government was silenced. He was also very anti-Hatian,

and he is responsible for a Haitian genocide that took place, I think in 1937. And so, yeah, he was just basically an all-around. atrocious person. And to remember all these atrocities so that it would not be repeated in the future and to have a place where all of this is recorded and taught to the younger generation, this museum exists. And it's actually in the colonial city.

It's overlooked by a lot of people because they don't really realize that it's in this. It's not exactly in the center, but it's definitely a couple of streets away from the center. It's absolutely fascinating. It's very modern. It's a multimedia type of museum. They're active. There's audio, there's video, there's life-sized figures. And basically, they have different rooms where they document the heroes, you know, the ones that fought against the regime, the ones who disappeared. They documented methods of torture that were used at the time.

You know, it's just, it's a, it's such an important part of Dominican history because people are still talking about Trujillo today. So that museum, I would add to the list for sure. And then the other museum is kind of quirky. It's not really, it's not even about Dominican Republic, but it's a beautiful colonial building that I think is worth even just paying just to see it. And it's the Museo de la porcelain. There's a porcelain museum. And this Dominican lady, she's Dominican,

but she fell in love with everything, porcelain and ceramics while she was in New York. And she basically brought back all her pieces from around the world, even from England and stuff from all over the world. And it's all porcelain. But the building is, there's a lot of buildings like that here. You sort of look at it from the outside. And, you know, it's got like, you can't really see what's behind the door. Mm-hmm.

As you go in, oh, my, it's like Spanish courtyards and, oh, just delightful architecture. Like, another really pretty museum is the Amber Museum. Moseu de Ambar. Definitely we're seeing very Instagramable places. And I have to say that one of my absolute favorite museums is the Museo del Ombri Dominican, the museum of the Dominican man, and it's basically the entire history of the Dominican Republic, including a whole floor of like taino artifacts. You know, the first inhabitants of the DR were taino, and there's barely anything left

of them. Now it's kind of being revived, but there's barely anything, anyone left. that is fully taino here, you know, everybody's mixed. So that museum is definitely a must. I mean, they have everything from the taino all the way to, you know, the period of sugar cane plantations and slavery to modern-day Dominican Republic. There's a whole floor about carnival, Dominican Carnival, which, by the way, is a huge thing here.

It's a very cultural thing that a lot of people don't know about as well. And then for other culture that does not museum related. I love the Centro Cultural de Spain. This cultural center is funded by Spain, but it basically has events year-round, you know, celebrating different aspects of Dominican culture, Dominican artists, making writers, all sorts of things. Movies, you know, they have free movies. All their events are subsidized, so everything is free. Nice. Even for the tourists? For everyone. It's phenomenal. I think it's one of the least known things about Santo Domingo. So I always check that calendar.

Sometimes they even host different walks, and you have to sign up in advance, but you just have to keep an eye on their pages, on the social media pages. And I've signed up, for example, in the past for like churches during Easter. During Semana Santa last year, I signed up for a walk that were with some of the original residents of the Colonial Zone, showing you around the churches, the significance of Easter and what they used to do as kids and stuff like that. fascinating. Are there any walks in English? You know, there aren't, and I've been thinking about setting those up. Please do. Okay. Yeah, I've definitely been thinking about that. There's definitely

a whole there. English is not as widely spoken as you'd think. But can we get by as tourists if we just speak English? Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. How do you spend a leisurely afternoon? If you had the day off, like, what would your perfect day look like? My perfect day, I think that would depend. I would definitely first, like I said, I keep an eye out on events, on cultural events, for anything interesting. And most of these take place in the colonial zone where I live. And other than that, I generally like to, I've become more like locals now. I don't go out until the sun is like down. I don't go out at the peak of like, you know, 1 p.m. or 2 p.m. when it's super hot and no, don't do that anymore. So I'd like to go out for either early morning.

or 5 p.mish walks. And I just stop just walking around. I check out, you know, the parks. I live around several parks. And just chelal. Sometimes I go to the botanical gardens, which I love. We have a huge botanical garden here in Santo Domingo. Actually, I think it's the largest in the Caribbean.

Occasionally not often. I like to go downtown. Downtown is a completely different Santo Domingo. Tell us what we need to do downtown. You definitely need to hit some of the restaurants. Really fantastic. New Dominican cuisine chefs. One restaurant is Travesias, which is owned by Chef Tita.

She's kind of a celebrity here, but she's a Dominican chef and she's fabulous because she has been promoting, you know, local produce. And she sources from, you know, basically Dominican women and uses their products. their products for her cuisine. And she's always promoting that, which is I love about her, yeah. Can you talk to me more about Dominican cuisine and the foods that we need to try when we're there? Oh, sure. Dominican cuisine is another very little known aspect of the DR.

And it's very varied. I mean, it has influences from Africa, from Spain, from even the Middle East, you know, because we have people who came here from the Middle East, including from Syria and Lebanon years ago. So you have, okay, you have La Bandera Dominicana, which is a typical rice and beans with chicken stew or beef stew. That's La Bandera Dominicana and that's available pretty much anywhere. And then you have a more typically Dominican dish, which is Sancocho. Sancocho is like basically a big stew with different meats, different root vegetables, you know, and it's prepared during special occasions. It's also prepared on New Year's Eve.

You know, it's like a family thing or you just sit outside and everybody's around this pot of Sancocho, you know, cooking. And another one that is typical is chicharon, which is fried pork rinds. You know, in some cafeterias here, they sell it by the pound. Like, it's like a delicacy, basically. And you also see, and I don't recommend that, but for myself, I don't do it. But you have people who sell chicharon, you know, with the chicharon on their tray, like walking around with uncovered or everything, you know. Anyways, yeah, so that's another thing.

And then you have frituras, so they love fried stuff here. So roadside, fried foods. What was the last one that you said? What is that? Frituras. Frituras means fried. Fried goodies, like fried stuff. Fried snacks.

It just means fried in general. Yeah, fried snacks. Yeah. So say, oh, there's a fritura there. There's a guy in the street selling frituras. It's like basically fried snacks. So what can we eat as vegetarians there? There's actually plenty, you know, because there's lots of avocado here.

there's yucca, there's lots of roots. Actually, they grow a lot of their vegetables here, which is great. That's what I love about it. So they source their own stuff. And you have several vegan restaurants now that have opened over the years. Santo Domingo's very much. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I've got to tell you, Macaians have the pulse on everything. It's amazing. Everything from social media to the latest trends to whatever, they can tell you what it is. It's pretty incredible. I don't know how they do that. But yeah, the vegan trend has been on for the last four years, maybe three years. So there's a lot of like there's also an international trend of food halls and food markets. What does that seem like? Yeah, no, we don't have that yet. We're still very Caribbean with the outdoor markets, the craziness. Yeah. Oh, yeah, we're not there yet.

What outdoor markets do we need to check out? So there is a market that most tourists are, you know, are sent to. And that one is Mercado Modelo. It's actually the oldest market in the city. It was the first one that was ever built, ironically by Trujillo, you know, dictator Trujillo. And it's all right. It has a covered area where you can buy souvenirs and arts and crafts and so on. And at the back of the market is the produce area.

and the Mercado Modelo is within the colonial zone, but it's more sort of on the western edge of the colonial zone. So, yeah, it's okay, you know. I think they send people there because it's less chaotic than the typical. But I personally, I find the real market, I call it real, the real market's absolutely fascinating, real look into what it's really like here. And, you know, one time I had a host of mine.

Airbnb host took me to the Mercado, well, they say, they call the Mercado Paris. And it's like La Calle Paris. It is a real like, I grew up in West Africa. So for me, that was like a real West African style. Like, you know, it's chaos. It's lots of vendors. But the produce is really nicely arranged and covered and everything. So it's really quite organized.

It's just that the surrounding scene, you know, the traffic, the noise, the people. and, you know, it could be crazy. So if you're not like the adventurous type of person, then you probably won't want to go there. But if you love cultural stuff, man, I was loving it. I loved it. What else are we going to see there besides food? Besides food?

Oh, my, there's everything. There's, you know, there's traditional, like, drinks, you know? There's a traditional drink called Mama Hwana from the Dominican Republic. What's that like? What's in there? It's like a mix of like rum, red wine and infused with, like, barks. Yeah, with tree parks. Oh, my God.

That's crazy. You can't even take that back to the States because you, you know, customs. But yeah, it's delicious. It's served in a little shot glass usually and it's taken after a meal, you know, like a digestive. Or just as a drink or whatever. You can do that too. And it depends who makes it. So you have to be careful.

And it's super potent. Who makes the best one? Oh, man. That's tough to say, you know. I haven't found the best one yet. But I've found good ones here. And some of them are actually inside, like, you know, restaurants inside some of the hotels that make their own. Okay. So can you give us one?

Let's see. Where did I last have? Yes, there's a hotel here, a small hotel called Dona Elvira. Hotel Dona Vida. They have a little restaurant inside, and their their, their Mama Hanna was pretty good. I was surprised. But, you know, most of them are decent. It just depends. And so, yeah, so you'll see the bottles with the barks, you know, and then you can do your own mixture if you want. You can buy the bottle with just the tree barks or you can buy souvenirs, little drums, you know, meringue drums, stuff like that. Like, you know, oh, and another really fascinating aspect is the botanicas, Dominican botanicas. Now, this is like a whole, it's still somewhat of a mystery to me because it kind of creeps me out sometimes. But it's for superstitious people.

I call it a superstition, but some people actually believe in it. So they go and they buy potions, different potions. You know, like one is for love or one is for more money or whatever. And sometimes they even have a figure of some sort of a saint or something. Or like if you put money there, then your wish will come true. Botanic is our big thing here. Nobody really talks about that. Are they potions that you drink?

I guess that's what a potion is. right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Have you tried one? No.

Yeah. You know, it's really interesting. There's a whole other side that is not, you know, because the religion here is mostly Christian, but it's Spaniards came here and imposed their Catholicism and whatnot. But the original religions are Taino or African, you know, more like what Haiti has over there. Yeah. So the Spanish came over, conquered.

then the British were there. I think that's a surprise to people. The British were there for a while, right? They were, but it wasn't, yeah, it was mostly the Spanish. Yeah, okay. And the French, too, by the way. French tried as well, but that didn't work. And then the French tried up north in the Samara Peninsula.

But the Spaniards came here first. So there's a lot of Spanish-related history that and very little So here's a thing, right? Because people always say like, well, Dominicans, you know, they think they're Spanish or like they don't celebrate their African roots and whatnot. But that's really not true at all. In fact, I would say that's the most surprising thing for me.

Coming here was that that's not the case at all. Dominicans actually celebrate all parts of their identity. Can you talk about those aspects of identity? Because I think, you know, a lot of people who are not from the Dominican Republic are really unfamiliar with slavery or any of that. People know it from their own home countries, but could you talk a little bit about that? Sure.

Well, so basically the first inhabitants of the Jamaica Public with Taino. And when the Spanish came, they decided to settle up north first, you know, in the Porto Plata province. And that didn't work out. They began to sort of suppress the Taino. used them, you know, for agriculture and slavery and stuff like that. And they disease took over.

And so they started over and they came to the Santo Domingo area. And then, you know, by then Columbus and his cronies, you know, his brother as well as his son, as well as the governor of Santo Domingo, Nicolaas de Ovando, basically started to the street, you know, Tainos, they were using them for, for. you know, for hard labor. And they were also just exterminating them, basically, you know. So that went on for many years. And then they, when the Taino died off, then they started bringing Africans from West

Africa, you know, the slave trade. So they started bringing them here. And yeah, so that part of the history is not as well documented and not as much discussed in educational institutions, you know. Right. And I think that's changing. That's finally starting to change over the last, I would say, two years, there's more and more of a consciousness about being Afro-Dominican.

And there's more people speaking out. The newer generation are more interested in their roots. And so all of that is changing. It's not really a matter of denying where you're from. It's more of a recognizing and knowing your history, which is a different thing. Yeah. So I've I've been to events here and that were just fascinating that are, you know, more African-driven, you know, more, you know, like there's a festival, folkloric festival that takes place. It's kind of sporadic, but the drumming, the chanting and all of that, and it's fascinating. And it's stuff that people don't get to see because they don't, you know, they're not here. They don't travel to places. They just read about them in the media. And what does the media choose to share, you know? What are the stories being told? So if we visited and we wanted to actually experience some of that, what do you recommend? It's actually an excellent show that is put on for visitors.

It's funny, but it's really well done. And it's the Folcleric Ballet, the National Folkloric Ballet. And they put on a free show every Friday night and Saturday night. And it's hosted right here in the colonial city near the Alcassal de Colom. Palace on Plaza, Spainia, outdoors. And it's a dance and music show that spans several decades showing what the traditional dances were from, you know, over various eras in the Republic. And some of them are from of African origin. They'll explain to you. Like, they literally have an MC who explains, you know, the gradual evolution.

of music. So you have this ballet folk where they come, you know, all dressed. I mean, their traditional clothes and they change each time with each dance and whatever. And it's really fantastic. I mean, it's like, wow, you know, this is free. Like, yeah, it's free and it happens all the time. And it's about, I would say, a three-hour show, two and a half hours. And they tell you the names of the dances, what they mean, what was the period, you know, was the influence.

as well as what was happening at the time historically, you know. That sounds really cool. It's really cool. I've not seen anything like that, I'll tell you, anywhere in the Caribbean. I've not seen a show like that at all. And you're Ms. Caribbean. You've written about, you've written so many books and articles. And so that definitely must be something to see.

Yes, yes, it is. It really is. Yeah, there's a lot more to Santa Domingo and to the DR than people know. So tell us more. about what we don't know, but also about the beach. We haven't talked about the beach yet. And the beaches look gorgeous. So tell us about the beaches in the Dominican Republic.

We must definitely go to the beach. The beaches are unbelievable in the Make Republic. I mean, I have to say that it's not hard to understand why they get the most visitors, to be honest. I mean, even the most basic of beaches is like, wow, this is nice. Now the beaches near the capital, near Santo Domingo, you can go on either side. Most people go east to Bocachica, Hwandolyo, Guayacanes. So these three beaches are the capital cities, beaches, quote-unquote.

But they're at least, I would say they started about 25 minutes, 30 minutes away, and they just continue along the East Coast. How can we get there if we're staying in Santo Domingo by taxi? You could get an Uber. Uber even. Wow. Yeah, Uber is what everyone uses here. Ever since Uber came, it's been like a lifesaver, to be honest. It's really reliable and it's safe and everything.

So Uber or, I mean, you can still take a regular taxi if you speak Spanish. Or you could catch a bus, very easy. The public transportation network in the DR is very developed. And it's also a great way to see, you know, how locals travel, because obviously not everyone has a car. And so there's a bus station close to the Colonios in the Colony City at Parque Enriquello. And it's basically one large bus departure area in this buses to nearly every point in the country from there. If we want to go to a beach that has chairs, an umbrella and maybe a restaurant, is there a place that you'd recommend? Sure.

I mean, they all do, really. Most of them in this area do. But I would recommend Juan Dolio. Okay. It's a little less hectic than Bocachica. But if you, it really, again, the beaches depend on the person, right? There is many beaches to satisfy every different type of taste or whatever. So if you're looking for something that's really like, you know, eclectic and Dominican and loud and, you know, like colorful or whatever, then you go to Bocca.

Which is also a beautiful beach, but it's very busy. You know, it's busy, especially on Sundays, that's like the ultimate, like, local glimpse. You know, the Mexicans come with their coolers, and there's always their fish shacks. You know, they sell fried fish. And so it's a real look into the culture. Juan Dolio, Juan Dolio is sort of a little bit more upscale, just a little. So it's none of that craziness. But you still have restaurants on the beach.

You have everything, basically, bars. And it's just a much longer beach. It's a very long, large beach. and it's beautiful. The water is a bit more, I would say, you know, you get more waves and stuff than Bocachica. Bocca is just like one big like sandbank, you know, which is why a lot of locals like it

because they can take their little kids there. And then, you know, you go two hours east and you're in Bavaro, Punta Gana. So from Santo Domingo. And you can catch a bus to go there. There's a Bavaro Express bus. So if you wanted to say, spend a night in the colonial city and then the next day go to Punta Cana, you can totally do that. So it sounds like for me, I'm thinking of my own ideal vacation.

You could just spend all day at the beach and then go out at night. It sounds like the people start to go out in the evening. Yes, yes. Definitely. Everything here happens after the sun goes down. Like, you know, as the sun starts to go down. So what are some of the things that we should do at night then? Oh my gosh, there's so much. It really depends. Like, for example, I would, you could go bar hopping. So many bars.

Oh, my God. All sorts of bars, you know. In the colonial zone is a big time place for hanging out at night. People love to come here because it's easy to walk around. You know, you park your car and just walk around. Or you could just catch Uber here and walk around. There are lots of bars. I mean, there's also a lot of live music. Santo Domingo is big time. hub for live music, live merengue, live bachata, whatever. What's a good place to see live music? A good place to see live music would be, you know, hard rock live is located inside the little mall. This is the downtown part of Santo Domingo. And they have some fantastic shows. Of course, they're paid shows, but they're really, really great. It's an amazing room for small performances. It's called Hard Rock Live.

and you could even go upstairs after that and go to the JW Marriott is there and they have a rooftop bar called Vertigo. Vertigo 101. And this rooftop bar has like a obviously outdoor terrace that has a glass there's one section where there's like a glass

all glass circle where you can stand and see all the way down 101 feet down to the street level. Yeah, I wouldn't have imagined I imagine a building so tall. I just am picturing like the classic colonial buildings. Yeah, that's why I said Santo Domingo is really full of different sides, you know, different faces.

The colonial city is one thing. And then there's a modern Santo Domingo, which is huge and lots of buildings and condos. And, you know, also a lot of bars there and clubs and stuff like that. And malls and movie theaters and whatnot. So, Lily, before I let you go, I would love to do a little lightning round of some of your favorite places in Santo Domingo. My, okay. What is your favorite coffee shop? My favorite coffee shop is in the colonial zone, and it's called Corner Cafe.

And literally, it sits in this darling corner that's like, it has an outdoor terrace covered with like Bogan Villa, you know, flowers and stuff. And it's just lovely. and it has lots of local suites and croissons and all sorts of baked goods. When I want to take my computer there and hang out, that's where I go. Do they have Wi-Fi? They have Wi-Fi. Nice. What is like a Dominican suite that we should try?

A typical Dominican suite is called halal. And it's this little round ball made of coconut and honey, like a candy, you know, small round candy made of coconut and honey. It's absolutely delicious. And what is the cafe culture like in the Dominican Republic? Are they just leisurely hanging out like all day? There's a huge cafe culture here. You know, we, Dominican Republic produces coffee.

And so we have some excellent coffee here, but a cacao farms and stuff. And the culture is, I mean, there's always time for a cafecito. So, you know, you're always meeting friends for a cafecito or just sitting. outside the cafe, sidewalk. Typical, like, European style, actually. I think it's probably European influence. They sit outside and, yeah, just have a tiny little espresso and watch the world go by. They love watching the world go by here.

Like people watching, you know. It sounds like my kind of place, for sure. Oh, yeah. I love it. It's great. Where do you like to go for lunch? There are a couple places I like to go for lunch. there is one place called Petros, which is a cafeteria.

So they have cafeterias here, which are like buffet style. So it's like local food, home-cooked, and it's just a buffet style. So you pick what you want. And it's not all you can eat, but you pick whatever dish you want that's available that day. Is that something that during the work week where workers will go? Yes, definitely. And also on the weekends, people who don't want to cook, you know, super cheap, you know. there's another place I really love.

I think it's the best in Santo Domingo. It's called Villar Hermanos, and it's a family-owned business, and this restaurant has a fresh buffet every single day, and it could have anything from what I told you was some of the typical stuff, chicharon to rice and beans, to different types of rice also, to fish, you know, steamed fish, or all sorts of, like, fresh cooked foods. all looks so good that if you go there hungry, you're in trouble because you just like want everything. And then at the back is a bakery as well. And it's the neighborhood right next to the colonial city called Gascoe. Is that a cool neighborhood to hang out in? I wouldn't say hang out, but it used to be, you know, it used to be a nice area because of the architecture, but it's kind of run down now,

but it's very active because of the restaurants. So I would say some of the most local, authentic restaurants in Santo Domingo are actually in that neighborhood. And they're on the street called Avenida Independencia. And ironically, that Avenida Independencia is parallel to the Waterfront Boulevard called the Malekon. The Waterfront Boulevard, you might know, has or not, has a bunch of hotels there, brand hotels, you know, Sheraton, Hilton, whatever, you know, Crown Plaza, all these hotels of business people stay in.

the street right behind it, parallel, has all these local eateries. What kind of business is going on there? Oh my God, you have everything from tobacco to agricultural to cacao is another one, a huge one. The DR is one of, I think, one of three or four top cacao exporters in the world. Yeah, so we have a lot of chocolate here. So are they making chocolate there? or just exporting the beans. Exporting the beans.

Okay. Yes. They also make their own chocolate here as well, but that chocolate is for consumption here. Okay. And then the beans are exported. Are there any, like, chocolate factories we can visit? That sounds like the best day ever. Absolutely.

Yeah. Which one? The best way to do it, and because, you know, they have, like, cacao stores where you can get a quick tour in the store. I mean, they have those here, but I recommend people go to actual cacao plantations, where they give you a full tour. So there's a cacao farm in a town that's about a couple hours north of Santo Domingo. That's where the plantation is, and it's called El Cendero del Cacao, which really means a cacao trail.

Okay. The website is cacao tour.com. The farm is called La Esmeralda, but the tour is actually known as El Cendero del Cacao, which means in English the Cacao Trail. It's fantastic all-around tour. about everything related to cacao, including the actual making. You can make your own tablets and stuff like that. So that's a very nice countryside drive as well.

So is the Dominican Republic and Santo Domingo in general a pretty affordable place to go on vacation? Extremely affordable. Yes, absolutely. So what is, what's tipping like, is there a tipping culture when it comes to restaurants and bars and stuff? Yes, tipping is big here. Tipping is just like in the States. Okay. Yeah, you tip the driver, tip the cab driver, you tip the waitress, all of that same, you know, 20% for dinner, maybe 15 for lunch, you know. What neighborhood would you recommend that we stay in if we're visiting? I recommend the colonial city for sure as a first, you know, introduction.

And that's easy to walk around. Super easy to walk around, to find yourself, you know, to find the sites and museums. And there are also local, local guides that you can hire. site and they'll walk you around the city and tell you a bit of the history, but you can also do it by yourself. And you can bike. Now, we have places where you can rent bikes. That's a new thing now. The past two, three years, it's super popular. Okay, cool. Yeah, those bike schemes have gone international. They're everywhere. Yes, yes. And then they have cafes in there and whatnot. It's like one big community. So if we wanted to get a guide, should we just go to the information center or what's the best way

to find somebody good. You need my book. Okay. Which one? You need my Moon Dominican Republic guide book. Okay. I basically share all my contacts there. I mean, I have specific guides.

I have drivers, you know, that I trust, that I use, you know, all of that. But in Colonial City, highly, highly recommend one particular guide who is, you know, he's more and a guide, he's really a historian, he loves his stuff, and he knows his stuff. And his name is Miguel Roman, and I can give you the info to publish, if you like, later. Okay. But he is an English, by the way, he used to teach, I think in California, he used to be a professor there. But he knows the history of this place with the city so well, and so, yeah. Are there any culture tips we should be aware of before we visit the Dominican Republic?

cultural tips yes I would say one is always greet people you know people here are big on greetings so for example if you went to the front desk or if you went to uh whatever service place uh you know you have a question for someone or you're lost or whatever then you always say hi first you know you have to say like saludos or buendia you know so if you're the customer you're expected to say hello first You're expected to say hello, that's right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, if not, you get this look like, hello?

It sounds very Parisian. Oh, yeah, so funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. Yeah, yeah, there's a little bit of that attitude sometimes. Yeah. And yeah, it's sort of like they're doing you a favor. No, but generally, even when you get on the bus, that surprised me here. Like you, you know, you board a bus full of strangers, you know, but people say hello.

They say saludos to everyone and people reply. That's nice. It's like, wow. Yeah, yeah. Stuff like that. I'm just like, wow. And that never changes. Like, that's still, you know, the norm.

Well, Lily, it has been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much. Oh, sure. Where can people find out more about you and read all of your great books and articles? Oh, sure. I think the easiest way would be to go to my blog, and my blog is wwwsun and stilettos.com. And you'll find links there to my main website portfolio as well as my articles and some of my books as well. So I have guidebooks on Belize and the DR.

Very cool. Well, if we are ever in the Dominican Republic, I'm going to look you up. Hopefully you're doing your tours by then. Yes, please do. You never know. I might. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. All right. Thanks so much, Lily. Thank you very much. So what do you think? Is Santo Domingo a place you'd like to spend some time? For me, absolutely. I would also love to know what your favorite beach destination is.

Email me at sarah at postcardacademy.co. Or find me on Instagram at Sarah Mikital. And let me know. I would love some beach inspiration. I'm about to head off for a few weeks, going down the coast of Croatia and then into Albania with some friends. And like Santo Domingo, it'll be a holiday blend of seaside mixed with culture and centuries-old history and architecture. I will share the itinerary after we've done the trip. That's all for now. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are.

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