Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Travel in 2022

Episode Date: January 9, 2022

Now is the time to book your summer travel (or winter if you live somewhere like Australia).So where are you headed?My friend and travel buddy Michelle Warner Martin joins me today to talk about what travel has been like for us over the last two years during covid; what the travel scene is like now; and which trips we're excited about in 2022. Michelle is a fantastic photographer whom I traveled with to Athens, Greece right before the global pandemic shut things down. Can't wait to travel with her again!http://www.michellemartinphotography.com/Hello! I'm your host, Sarah Mikutel. But the real question is, who are you? Where are you now and where do you want to be? Can I help you get there?Visit sarahmikutel.com to learn how we can work together to help you achieve more peace, happiness, and positive transformation in your life.Book your Enneagram typing session by going to sarahmikutel.com/typingsessionDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to Live Without Borders, a travel and wellness show for expats, the expat curious, and globally minded citizens of the world. We are the travelers, the culturally curious, the experiences and not things kind of people. And we know that freedom is about more than getting on a plane. It's about becoming the most heroic versions of ourselves, which is why on this podcast you will hear insider travel secrets, inspiring expat stories and advice on how to live abroad. but you will also hear episodes that will help give you the clarity, focus, and skills you need to create a life that will set your soul on fire. I am your host, Sarah Micatel, a certified clarity coach trained in the Enneagram, and I first moved abroad on my own at age 18, and I have been permanently enjoying life in Europe since 2010. If you are ready to make some big moves in your life

and want my help moving from someday to seize the day, visit live without borderspodcast.com. Hello and happy New Year to you. Do you know where you're traveling this year? Well, that is what I am talking about with my friend photographer Michelle Werner Martin. You have heard her on the Athens Greece podcast. And we just wanted to have a chat to talk about what travel has been like for us over the last two years during COVID, what we are seeing now as far as travel precautions and, you know, what's opening up, what is the whole scene like. And what we are excited about this year. when it comes to where we plan to go. So I hope you enjoy this episode and let's jump right into it. Welcome, Michelle. Thank you for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me again, Sarah.

I'm excited to chat with you. So we are here to talk about travel in 2022, you know, what travel has been like for us for the last two years during COVID, what we're excited about this year. And I first met you right before COVID, You were a listener of this podcast and you invited me to your trip in Athens, Greece. And I had a wonderful time there and, you know, met a fantastic friend and we're still friends.

And I just love this. I love it too. And yes, we had such a great time. I was really excited that you took me up on it. I know on your show you've said many times, if someone invites you, you're pretty much up for it. And you definitely held to your word on that. And we had such a great time. The world shut down right after our trip. So we got to eat some like delicious vegan food in Athens and see some of the sites. And then your trip in Greece actually got cut short and you kind of made it out there just before the world shut down. And now the world is opening back up and it's pretty exciting. And you know, according to Scott from Scott's cheap flights, he's saying that, you know, now is the time that you should be booked.

your summer travel or your winter travel if you live somewhere like Australia. And so I would love to get into, you know, what we're excited about this year. But let's just take a little bit of like a pause, I guess, and talk about what happened in the last two years. So have you been traveling anywhere? Well, as I had mentioned on a previous interview that you did with me about Athens, I was traveling in Italy at the time that COVID hit. So it was very interesting. We kind of pivoted our trip to Greece. Initially, you and I were just supposed to be there for the four days, but I actually continued on. My daughter was traveling with me as well. So we continued on for another, oh, I don't know, a week or 10 days maybe, and then flew to London the night that

they kind of started shutting everything down. And so we had to get out of London really quick, which was a little bit challenging, but we made it work. And we got home on March 13th, which was kind of the day that everything started shutting down. And so from there, we ended up quarantining for a couple of weeks. And then we ended up just coming back to our home in Wisconsin where we live, because I quarantined closer to Chicago when I landed. And when I got home, I kind of did as everybody in this area did. We just sort of locked down for quite a while. So 2020, the rest of 2020, I considered it a real gift that we were even able to travel at all because the rest of year was definitely a wash. But in 2021, I actually did have an opportunity to travel and I was really

excited about it. I flew out to California and did a cross-country road trip from there. So I have a cousin who actually let me have a car because an aunt of mine was getting too old to drive it. And so I had the opportunity to get the car and drive all the way back from California to Wisconsin. And I stopped and hit lots of national parks. There were, let's see, I think I went to seven or eight national parks in Arizona and Utah and Colorado. I had a great time. It was just a solo road trip. And it was just really fun. And it was nice to do something like that because typically I'm an international traveler. I've been all over the U.S. but I was quite a bit younger when I was in the West the last time. So doing an international trip obviously wasn't really in the plans for me in

2021 or at least at that time of the year. And so I was excited to have an opportunity to explore in my own country, a little closer to home and to have those experiences. How did that feel driving like such a distance? You know, I drive a lot. So in that regard, it didn't bother me. I just split it up over the course. I was in California for, I guess it was about 10 days. And then from there, I drove home gradually. I was gone about a month total. So I took took it really slow. I stopped in, you know, incrementally along the way. And I just kind of let my spirit guide me. I didn't have a, you know, I did want to see all five of the national parks in Utah, which I was fortunate enough to do. But from there, I just kind of was, you know,

whatever I could handle in a day. I would do that. And then I stopped in Colorado. I was in Denver, which is, believe it or not, the first time I'd actually spent any appreciable time in Denver. I'd flown in and out of it, but I've never actually been there for very long. And I got to go to my first concert since COVID at Red Rocks, which has actually always been a huge dream of mine to see a show there. So that was kind of a nice way to reintroduce myself to the world again. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I'm not really a driver. I don't have a car. As an adult, I've barely driven at all because I've been in, you know, cities and here in folks did, you know, everything's walkable. So I don't, I don't drive at all, but when I think about you driving around on that trip, the word that comes

to mind is freedom and just, you know, as you said, letting your spirit guide you. And I'm so glad that you got to go to all of those parks. And I've never been to Denver at all. So, yeah, it sounds like an amazing experience. It really was. And I think, too, you know, of course, you lived abroad for a long time. But you also grew up on the part of the country where things are a lot closer together. You know you're from the East Coast. I'm from the Midwest, and I'm used to things being further apart, lots of land between things. And so, you know, that part didn't bother me. I, the only time I was a little bit like, okay, I'm ready for a change of scenery is when I was driving through Nebraska. And I love Nebraska, but if you drive straight through it, like from Colorado, it's just a lot,

it's a lot of just sort of flat land. And so I stopped and did some fun things there, every opportunity that I had and kind of broke things up as I went along. So, yeah, it was fun. Did you see anything quirky? There's a lot of quirkiness in Utah, especially. And that's, that's a state that I hadn't really been to before. Yeah, I don't think I'd actually been to Utah before at all. So it's, I didn't go up towards the city. I didn't go up towards Salt Lake City. I stayed pretty much down and where the national parks were, but just kind of the, just the vibe. You know, you drive for a really long time, and there's this little tiny town and you drive for a really long time and there's this little tiny town. You know, you're just sort of really out there.

And I think that really taught me how big this country really is, how much open space there really is. And so in that sense, I mean, I can't think of anything off the top of my head specifically quirky, but just the vibe of really being in a place that is very remote, you know, over time is when you really had to say, oh, I have to fill up my gas tank here because I'm not going to see. another gas station for a very long time. So, you know, you had to really think ahead about stuff like that. Yeah, I guess when I think of American road trips, I'm just thinking about the pictures of like world's biggest frying pin and like, you know, world's biggest tree house or whatever. You know how like the towns like to have competitions over those random world records.

But as you were speaking, it struck me as one, COVID provided some opportunities for us to do just travel that we probably wouldn't normally do. I'll speak about like something that I did in a second. But I know so many Europeans who drive cross country in the U.S. And I don't really know many Americans who do that. And as you are saying, like getting like little flavors of small towns, I can understand why a European would like be really into that. Because I'm into that here as an American in Europe, like going to random small towns. People are always like, what are you doing here? Like, why are you here? There is nothing here. And I'm like, this place is amazing. It's so cool. And so I think that that's fun. Absolutely. When you go, you know, I'm the same way when I go over to Europe. I don't have trouble driving around.

In fact, I have some friends who want me to meet them in Ireland in March, you know, so that we can hang out. But they also kind of said, hey, can you drive? Because I've driven in Ireland quite a bit. So I really like that as well, kind of getting off the beaten path and discovering areas that you typically don't get to unless you're really thinking about it. And going into future travel, I've considered myself a really thoughtful traveler about where I go and what I do. But I think COVID has really taught me to focus on that even more in my future travels, to be able to go and just kind of dig in and really think. or ask the opinions of the people around me and not just kind of be ticking off this mental bucket list kind of thing, you know, to really go in there and say, hey, you know, what are your thoughts from people that live there or that have experience with the culture and kind of really

take that to heart more than just trying to get through a specific itinerary? Yeah. So COVID helped inspire you to take this road trip in the U.S. And for me, I mean, I'm thinking about it. Yeah, during COVID, I wasn't really, I didn't go to other countries aside from the U.S. But I did visit my family in the States a few times. And normally when I go home, I will visit my friends in New York and then make my way up to Connecticut.

And I haven't been to New York at all since COVID. I've just been visiting my family. But we did sort of start a tradition, or rather I jumped onto a tradition that I hadn't participated in the past. So my family has been going to Maine for a few years now, I guess. It started out my parents going with our dog. And then my sister and her family started to join. And in 2020, I came home in June, like around that time that they were going.

And so I joined them for the first time. And it was really nice to have that family time. We just went up to Kenny Bunkport to stay at this hotel that allows dogs and has a nice swimming pool that my nephew likes and, you know, nice walking areas. I'm so happy that I got that family time. And so I did it again with them in 2021 and I'll be doing it again this year. And had COVID not happened, you know, I would have gone home at some point in the summertime, but probably just to, you know, see my new friends in New York City and then stop and see my family

in Connecticut. And normally I just chill in Connecticut. I don't, I'm like, eh, let's just stay here. But anyway, point of the story is I'm glad that I had that. opportunity to experience Maine with them and that this has been become like a thing that we do. I love that. I think being open to new traditions and doing those kind of things because you have the opportunity to do it. And I don't know about you. I'm sure this is true, but this whole experience has made me value my family more. Of course, I've always cared for them and love them. But having,

you know, periods of time where we couldn't see each other because it just wasn't safe to do so, really impacted me. And so, you know, now we still have to be careful, but we've taken all the precautions that we possibly can. And so, you know, we're able to see each other and experience those things more. And I love me. And I'm glad you brought that up. It's actually I went there on my honeymoon years ago and I've longed to return. So that's really cool. I guess I'll just take like a moment to talk about like what we've been experiencing like most recently when it comes to travel. So, you know, I've been on a few flights to visit my family and I would say that flights are full again. There was a time where we had the entire aisle to ourselves and we could just lay down

on the long haul flight and it was amazing. And I really enjoyed that. People are still wearing masks, but you can still eat on flights. So, you know, not wearing your mask when you're eating. But other times people are wearing masks in the airport on the planes. But yeah, I'm kind of surprised at how full everything is again, I would say that flights are pretty easy when it comes to, like, nothing has really changed as far as like how fast it is to like get through the airport and blah, blah, blah. What the difference that I do see is that testing has become a bit of a concern just because there's been like a lack of tests and the time to get your test back is just, you know, it can take days or like a week when the country you're going to wants to have the test within 24 hours

to 48 hours. And so that has complicated things a little bit. But by the summertime, I hear a prediction that that testing won't be necessary anymore. I actually saw my cousins from Ireland about 10 days ago right around the new year. And they were kind of working that whole thing to try and get a test before they flew back. And, you know, that was the biggest stressor of the whole experience, I think, for them. So, and that was something that I have been, when we can talk about what we had planned to do as far as travel, but I had to cancel a trip to Europe in December. And that was the same thing. We were trying to lock down, okay, where are we going to get the test? When are we going to do this? So obviously, we didn't have to deal with it. But I can definitely

tell that's been the biggest hassle for most people traveling. Yeah. And obviously, we all want to be safe, right? We don't want to be spreading this pandemic around. But, you know, a lot of the home tests, like I did a doc, like I went to a doctor's office once to get a test so I could get like the checkmark that I did that. And he was like, this is the same exact test as if you did it at home. But anyway, so just like talking about some hiccups that people might run into if they're traveling like immediately right now. So there is the testing. You might not. be able to get a test if you don't plan far enough in advance. If you want a country hop, you really need to plan ahead still to see if I go to this country now, will this other country

not let me in because I went to this country? So I was thinking of visiting my friend Crystal in Mexico before I went to Italy. But then thankfully, I checked ahead and saw that if you had been, like there's just complications if you went to Mexico because Mexico doesn't really have any restrictions on who they're letting in now. And a lot of them haven't gotten the vaccine yet just because of the way that it's rolled out. And so Italy, I think it's not letting people in from Mexico. And if you've been there, I'm not exactly sure what the complication was, but I think it was you would have had to quarantine. And so you just have to plan more ahead than what I used to do, although I'm changing my ways and I've actually planned my trips for

this year. So we can get more into that in a minute. But you just have to do. be more mindful about, and like, will a country even let you in, depending on where you're from, right? So we have to, like, look in advance of, like, what the rules and regulations are for each country and where you've been. That was my experience with December, because we were supposed to go to Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Liechtenstein. So we were going to do a Christmas market tour. And so right as we were getting ready to go, Austria shut down. And then, so, We kind of rerouted. We were going to go to Prague and then Brothelava and Strasbourg and kind of changed things around. And then, you know, it was like playing whack-a-mole with, okay, well, now

this country is going to do this. And so, yeah, it just got too stressful. And so it just didn't happen. But yeah, I think I typically travel with my daughter, who is now 17 and, you know, going on a lot of trips together. That's our thing. And I'm a little bit wary. I think the first time I go back to Europe. I'm kind of leading now of going on my own, which is sort of why I'm thinking about this March Ireland trip if the Omicron spike drops a bit, which they're saying hopefully will happen by late January, so we'll see. But basically, if I can, you know, it is when you're traveling with somebody else, you know, like your child, I think I would be nervous just, you know, if she got it or I got it and, you know, then we had to quarantine or not or, you know, all those

different things. Yeah, it's a lot to think about. Yeah. And even if even if you are double vexed and boosted, you still might get COVID. And even if you feel totally fine, if your test says that you've got it, you could be stuck in another country. And I was thinking, like, if I got stuck in Italy, would it be that big video really? Like, I'm just thinking of me in my comfort level, but there are complications, right? Because if you are in another country, you don't really know the system for like, you know, grocery delivery or like all of the basics. So you're kind of alone, you know, for X number of days. I, you know, somebody who I share a co-working space with, like one of her friends, like her partner got stuck in Budapest because

he tested positive for COVID and he felt fine. But, you know, he was out there. So that's another potential risk is getting quarantined in a foreign place. Exactly. Lots to think about. But having said all that, I'm still really hopeful and excited for 2022. I do think that slowly we are turning the corner. Those are my hopes. And I do definitely have some plans that have had to be sort of malleable, but I'm okay with that. I'm okay with being flexible and just going when the time is right. And, you know, I've already had to cancel two trips. So I'm kind of getting used to the disappointment of that. So, you know, it's just like, okay, it just is what it is. You know, and, you know, what are you going to do? It's, it's,

it's important to try for me anyway, because travel is just in my blood. It's, it's the first thing I'm going to go back to as soon as I'm able. And so, you know, you're going to strike out a couple times in this particular time of history. And it just does what it is. But I'm going to keep trying. I do have good hopes for 2022. Yes. Oh, one. One other thing that I wanted to say is that more flights, I think, are being canceled than normal. And that happened to me twice. And one of the times I had actually booked my flight with credit card points, which I don't usually use.

I'm usually like a weird credit card point hoarder. But I had paid for my flight with points. And when it got canceled, the airline wouldn't help me rebook. And it got really, really complicated. And so it just made me realize like, oh, I think for the most part, I want to be booking all of my flights directly with the airline. So if things do get canceled, they'll rebook me instead. Because what happened was Christmas flights got canceled.

And then the flights had tripled in price. And the airline wouldn't rebook me in the credit card company said, oh, well, now you have to pay like this extra $1,000. I was like, what? How is this possible? So anyway, that's my little tip is whatever possible. Book right with the airline. I concur with that because when we were in Europe when COVID hit, trying to get home was a nightmare. And the airline that we initially used just completely shut their phone lines down.

So I didn't have any way to contact them. And all of the other flights, because there was sort of this mad dash, when they first announced that everything was shutting down, they didn't really say that Americans could kind of come home at any time, you know? I mean, in retrospect, I guess I should have assumed that, but I didn't, you know. And so, yeah, flights had gone up exponentially. It would have cost, I think, oh, I don't know, like $4,000 for my daughter and I had to get home. And in the end, I actually had a guardian angel. She, a dear friend of mine, message me.

And she said, hey, you know, I fly to Australia all the time for work. I have more points than I can ever possibly use. Can I please help you get home? and I was in a position where I had no choice but to accept because, I mean, yeah. And it was incredibly generous of her. And you deserve it, Michelle. I appreciate that. But it was, you know, I'm not the type of person who would normally ever accept

something like that. But I knew that this was the time to humble myself and do it. So, yeah. So thankfully, we just had to pay the fees, which were extremely nominal compared to the actual price of the flight we got home. But yeah, it was not an easy. You have to ponder. those things now. So now we're older and wiser and I know now that if there was something shutting down

that I could kind of wait it out a little bit if I had to. But back then it was everything was happening in real time. So we landed in London and my phone just kept pinging with texts. They just shut out or shutting down. You know, everybody was letting me know. And that was a lot. Well, speaking of older and wiser, so I have talked a lot about my lack of planning. I think podcast, but I'm a reformed lack of planner where I'm starting to be anyway. And that's actually something else that Scott from Scott's cheap light said when he was on my podcast that in the research he did for his book, he was surprised to learn that people, like the anticipation is almost as good as the trip for a lot of people. I don't know if I would go that bar yet,

but I do like a bit of anticipation. And I also like there are certain. places that I want to hit that I want to go to and I've gone to I've traveled like a surprising amount considering I've done a lot mostly last minute travel and I still want to be open to last minute travel but this year my approach to travel is to plan ahead so that's what I spent last weekend doing and my first step was to see okay like what are the bank holidays in the UK what we call bank holiday just means like national holiday day off from work. So I have like a pretty big copywriting client for the next six months. And so I'm not going to be doing a ton of travel. You know, I could be doing it working remotely in different places or maybe taking a long weekend,

but I'm not going to be doing like a ton of stuff. But, you know, we've got a long weekend in April. So I'm thinking about going up to Scotland. We've got another long weekend in May. So I'm planning on going to Warsaw, Poland with a friend of mine. And so my strategy was to go through and see like, all right, where are the bank holidays? Where can I get the most bang for my book? And then really taking like a lot of time over this summer to take my longer trips. And so that was my strategy. What is your travel planning strategy? Well, mine right now is to craft a plan and itinerary, but be willing and able to modify it and to shift the timing of it. So typically, I travel in February. That's a good time of year for me. My daughter is virtually schooled and has

been for years. So she's always just come along with me. We don't have to adhere to a school calendar. My husband is busy with tax accounting type stuff. So he's busy and it's my quiet season because I'm a wedding photographer in the Midwest, which usually the winter months are much more quiet. So the plan was definitely to do a February trip. But as Omocron keeps doing what it's doing, I've kind of scrapped that. I have one more hotel to cancel and I just camping myself to do it. So I'm going to wait a couple more weeks before I completely scrap it. But basically that trip is five countries, I think.

And this was sort of our triumphant return to Europe after the 2020 madness. The goal for me when we travel is to go for several weeks. So at least six weeks. So if it doesn't happen in February, it's probably going to have to wait until the late fall because my wedding season goes through late October, early November. So right now my approach is to have the plan, which I've pretty much planned everything out, and just be ready to hit it when it's looking good. So that's kind of the plan. But that trip was supposed to be Italy, Portugal, Spain, the UK to come see you, and France. My daughter is going to be a high school senior next year, and I want to do her senior photos in Paris.

So that was our goal. Yeah. So that's the hope. And as I sort of alluded to earlier, I think if I do take this trip in March to Ireland, I'm going to go on my own just to kind of feel it out and see how everything goes. And then, you know, the later trip this year will be with my daughter. Well, you're also invited to come down and see me in March. Yes. Are your friends in Ireland, are they open to having somebody else join for a few days?

Absolutely. I would think so they're my cousins. They actually have a place. They live in Belfast. So it is the UK, which is nice for you. So what I'm thinking is if you were free at all and you wanted to just hop over like Dublin or Belfast or if you wanted to stay in the UK, we could just stay in the north of Ireland. Have you, you haven't really been to Ireland, right? You know, when I was in college, I did a weekend there. And I don't know how I feel like college is a magical time. or just maybe youth, where you can cram so much in. Like, I think I was only there for three days, but I feel like I saw all of Dublin. We went to kill Kenny. We went to somewhere else. I don't know how we did it. But it's been a really, really long time.

So, yeah, I would be up for seeing any of it. Well, especially Northern Ireland, like if you wanted to stay in the UK, although honestly, you can drive between Ireland, the Republic and the North, and they don't stop you. I don't care about staying in the UK. Like, I'm up for going wherever. Okay. So yeah, what we could do, if you're up for coming to Ireland, I mean, we could meet up in Dublin or we could meet up in Belfast because I do want to go up there and see my cousins anyway. The north is really cool. There's a lot up there and it's way less, granted, the time of year is not going to be that busy. But it's way less busy. Yeah, I've been wanting to check out Belfast. I'm happy to. Well, absolutely. Belfast is cool. The Titanic Museum is amazing. And like, you know, I loved going on the tours, the Black Cab tour where you,

go to the sites of the troubles and everything like that. I find that stuff fascinating. So the last tour we took was with a Protestant. So you can either go with a Protestant or a Catholic and they'll give you their perspective on it because obviously their perspectives are very different. But it's really fascinating. So we just, we didn't request, you know, Protestant or Catholic. That's just what we got. So that's cool. And, you know, the market there is cool. I mean, I love history. I love markets. It sounds good. Yay. Belfast is great. I mean, it's, you know, it's an industrial city.

It's my cousin's husband, if you're up for an adventure, he flies planes. He flew us over the, like in a little plane. It was a little slightly terrifying, but yeah, I don't know if you'd be up for that. I'm sure he'd be. He's always excited to fly, so you want to fly with him. Where did you go? You just went for like a little ride? We just flew around Belfast, but it was neat to just fly over it.

And he's like, we could have gone, he could have flown us to Scotland and we thought about it. But we just took like maybe a 30 minute flight, which was plenty for me to be honest. Those things are small. Those planes are small. Yeah, I don't think I've been on a little tiny plane like that. It was fun.

I mean, it was fun, but it was a little, you know, because you have to land. I'll just show you the video of us landing because you land. You have to go over water and then the air strip is right at the edge of the water.

So you get really low over the water. So it's like, you're just like, okay, let's stay afloat, please. So I had just, and the other thing about those little planes is they, when you come down, they kind of sway back and forth. I mean, it was fine. He did great and he's a very good pilot and he doesn't take risks and he only goes up when it's safe and all that. But there was a lot of like, great deal.

everything's fine. Well, you've got me excited about Belfast now. And you had mentioned April in Scotland, so I want to hear more about those dates. Maybe I might be able to link you up somehow, but we'll chat about that later. Yeah. Well, we can chat about it right now. Yes. I want to go to Scott.

I want to go to Scotland. What are you thinking about going? For the Easter weekend. And then, because we always have four days in the UK. And I've wanted to go to Glasgow ever since my. Glasgow episode of this podcast. And I love the highlands. And also, you know, we're thinking about planning ahead. I'm like Easter weekend. I feel like a lot of the more Christian countries, a lot of the things will be closed down, whereas the UK, I don't really see that happening as

much. And so, yeah, so I'm thinking Scotland in April. And then Poland in May, so I'll probably be going with my friend Elki. And then June, I would like to go back to southern Italy for our bank holiday at the beginning. So when I went to on my road trip down like Croatia, Albania, Italy, like I ended in Brindisi and Bari. And it was just one of those places where I was like, this is so wonderful. I'm loving walking around here. I'm definitely going to come back here. And so that just sounds like southern Italy and June, early June before things get too hot. That's like a really good, a really good time to go. And then I mentioned Maine with my family late June is definitely a priority.

And then I envisioned July and August to be a lot more free in September. And so I plan on going to Romania and Georgia, both places where thank you to the people on my podcast who I interviewed for those episodes because that just really like piqued my interest. And I was like, yes, I have to go. Like Debbie in Bucharest, I'm like, we have to hang out. I'm really excited to meet her in real life. And looking at the map, you know, Romania and Georgia are fairly close. So I will probably fly into Romania and then like fly to Georgia and then fly back to the UK from there.

So it's also a good idea to have like a loose bearings of like where you want to start and end. and you don't have to have everything mapped out. Like I'm sure we'll have some things mapped out before I go. But just like a basic start, stop, like when I want to go. And then August, I want to go to the Serialo Film Festival, which is August 12th. So I'm thinking about going to Ephesus in Turkey beforehand because usually you have to fly to another country. You can't just fly directly to Bosnia from the UK. So do some historical stuff.

sightseeing in Turkey and then fly to Sarajevo for at least the opening of the film fest because the vibe there is amazing from what I hear. I haven't been there during the film festival. And Sarajevo is like my, I don't, my spirit town, I guess. There's just something about it. I know you talked about that and I really want to go with you sometime. Yeah. Well, hey, this could be the year, Michelle. Yeah, maybe. I also want to get back to Turkey. I live there as a child, but I have not been back as an adult and I am just absolutely ready to go to Turkey. All right. Well, maybe we should talk post show about some more details.

Yeah. So that's exciting. And then I'm not done yet. I'm not done yet. Tell me more. Yeah. So I also want to go to the Lake District in August because, you know, I feel like that's where my love affair of travel actually started when I spent that summer working up in

the Lake District. I was 18 years old. the hardest physical labor I've ever done in my life as a chamber made up there. But I was just like, God, this is the most beautiful place. Like, I love the UK. This is such, you know, I just, I loved everything about it. I think I've mentioned on this podcast before, but something that really intrigued me was like going to the pub and seeing people of like all ages mixing, like seeing like a grandma

having a beer with their grandson and just having a chat. I'm like, this is really cool that people are just like mixing a. around like this because I feel like people are very, very segregated by age in the U.S. So anyway, after that, yeah, I guess I just kept traveling and living abroad until like it became a permanent thing like 12 years ago at this point. So, but I've never been back to the Lake District. In my mind, just like the most beautiful place in the world. So I definitely want to go up there. And then in September, it's my mom's birthday and we are planning a big Italy trip and I cannot wait.

I love your mom. She's so sweet. That sounds wonderful. I have the biggest smile on my face just thinking of you getting back out there and I know you have been traveling but to the level that you really want to be traveling again. And yeah, I'm so excited for you. And I really want to join you on some of that, all of it maybe. Yeah, well, I'll just move in. It's fine.

It's fine by me. I would love that. Oh, I forgot that a friend of mine contacted me today and was like, oh, we're going to Quercica in July. Do you want to come? So, yeah, so I think I'll probably be coming to Corset up for a little bit. I love that as well. Amazing.

I'm excited. I want to head a little more. So my goal, my three to five year goal actually is to take a sabbatical in Albania for a year. They have a year-long tourist visa there and I've been really flushing out what that would look like for me. And so I like Albania for, well, there's so many beautiful things about it, but it's very centrally located to where I would. want to be. Of course, I love Italy, and I would love coming to see, you know, you and I both have a dear friend in Florence, you know, and I also really want to start heading do more time in Greece and Turkey, and I really want to get to Egypt and Jordan. And so it's kind of a good central

location to base myself. The cost of living there is really manageable. And so that's sort of my long-distance plan, but to be able to take off on those types of excursions and still be somewhat regional, you know what I mean, is definitely the goal for me. Because I don't really have a path to being able to stay in the Schengen zone for more than 90 days at a time. So the nice thing about Albania is I don't have to worry about that, but I'll still be relatively proximal. Portugal is pretty easy to. Yeah, I have to investigate that more. I know there's the golden visa.

I'm not made of that kind of money, but I know there's potentially some other options too. And I think with COVID, a lot of people are becoming, you know, there's a lot more digital nomads even than there were before. So I think as time goes on, there'll be more visas related to that type of stuff in different Schengen zone countries. Well, Georgia as well is very easy to live in too. Also very affordable. So maybe you should do some hopping around this summer before you decide a whole year in Albania. Yeah. I'll have to do some research. That's the plan. And it's fun too. So why not? Yeah, on location

research. I love it. Let's do it. Sarah, you are such a blessing to me. I love being able to plan and have these conversations and then actually go do it because we're both doers. You know what I mean? You know what? I don't think I would call myself a doer for many things. But when it comes to travel, I mean, when it comes to travel, yes. And in fact, maybe that's helping me in other areas of my because, you know, the more I learn about a neagram and self-development and like different things like that, I realize how much more of a doer I want to be. And, you know, how comfortable, how I can be addicted to comfort sometimes. I think that's why I've embraced so much over the last few years of putting myself in challenging situations. And I think what draws me to stoicism so much is

It's like, this is one life, you know, step it up. You know, be the best person that you can be, not just for myself, but for other people. And so, yeah, I do want to be more of a doer. Well, when it comes to travel, I definitely think that you are. And I think when I look at the positives of this whole COVID experience, which obviously that's a challenging leap sometimes. But one of the positives personally is that it has really given me a sense of, how much time that took up of our lives. Do you know what I mean? So now it's like full speed ahead.

Let's go and do and be an experience because, you know, as the old adages, tomorrow is not promised to anybody. And it's just like the motto of your show. You know, it's basically that's what you base your whole show around is, is, you know, living in the moment and doing these things. Yeah. Well, I think that's a wonderful place to end. I'm feeling very like happy and excited. and I look forward to seeing you. And I just want to also say, Michelle, that you in a previous life were a nurse and that during COVID you went back and like reactivated your license so that you could help, you know, give people vaccinations and do all this stuff.

I just think that you're an amazing person. And so I'm just giving you a little shout out. Oh, thanks, friend. I think everything felt at that time when I started doing it when the vaccine first came out. everything just felt so sticky and like we had just been frozen in place for so long and any forward motion felt helpful you know what I mean like okay I can only do this part but I'm going to do this part you know and to get the wheels turning again and so it was just as healing for me I think to start to be able to do something that felt like we were it was life affirming

you know what I mean so yeah you're welcome I mean so let's welcome let's such a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for having me as always. Yeah. And I can't wait to see you again. Well, I guess I'll just say one final thing. So we talked about like doing like committing like let's make a plan. Let's like let's book some trips. And so I just want to throw a reminder to listeners that of like Scott Cheap's flights his like Goldilocks window. So as we learned on the episode that like last minute deals are kind of a myth these days in the past. It was a possibility. But now if you actually want to get like a good price on your flights, you need to book it.

Now for the summer or he says like for peak travel periods always book the opposite season. And for like domestic travel, that means I think like one to three months out. You should be booking your domestic travel. And for international flights, it's between like two and eight months. So start planning and start booking. Absolutely. Flights are so cheap right now as well to Europe. So start booking them and here within Europe, like it's ridiculous, like four pound flights to Romania.

Like it's crazy. That's wild. Yeah, it's fun and exciting. Very exciting. All right, Michelle, love you. Yeah, you too. I love you too. And let's, yeah, let's definitely make some plans.

That's all for now. Go ahead and follow the show or hit subscribe so you can hear more. episodes like this. And if you would like my help taking bold action on your own dreams, like living abroad, changing careers and other life transitions, visit live without borderspodcast.com. Thanks for listening and have a beautiful week wherever you are. Do you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free conversation sheet sheet with simple formulas that you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you're in a meeting or just talking with friends. Download it at Sarah My Good

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