Citizens of the World: A Stoic Podcast for Curious Travelers - Traveling to Veria and Thessaloniki Greece

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

Everyone’s heard of Athens and you’ve most likely seen the sparkling white facades of Santorini’s cube-like buildings. But there’s a lot more to Greece than gyros and the Parthenon.Today’s guest is taking us off the beaten path. I’m speaking with Ivy Summer, an American nomad/expat living in Veria, Greece, an ancient city famously important to the family of Alexander the Great, and home to the best peach pie in Greece. So if you love pie and ancient history, Veria is for you. We’ll also be talking about the best things to eat drink and do in the nearest big city, Thessaloniki, the best way to island hop, and the most romantic part of Greece that you probably haven’t heard of.Ivy is a certified wedding planner, so she knows all the beautiful places. She’s also a diversity consultant. I had a great time talking to her and our conversation filled me with wanderlust. So let’s just sit back and imagine we’re sailing around the coast of Greece together.Hello! I'm your host, Sarah Mikutel. But the real question is, who are you? Where are you now and where do you want to be? Can I help you get there?Visit sarahmikutel.com to learn how we can work together to help you achieve more peace, happiness, and positive transformation in your life.Book your Enneagram typing session by going to sarahmikutel.com/typingsessionWant to connect on Insta? Find me hereDo you ever go blank or start rambling when someone puts you on the spot? I created a free Conversation Cheat Sheet with simple formulas you can use so you can respond with clarity, whether you’re in a meeting or just talking with friends.Download it at sarahmikutel.com/blanknomore and start feeling more confident in your conversations today.

Welcome to Live Without Borders, a travel and wellness show for expats, the expat curious, and globally minded citizens of the world. We are the travelers, the culturally curious, the experiences and not things kind of people. And we know that freedom is about more than getting on a plane. It's about becoming the most heroic versions of ourselves, which is why on this podcast you will hear insider travel secrets, inspiring expat stories, and advice on how to live abroad. but you will also hear episodes that will help give you the clarity, focus, and skills you need to create a life that will set your soul on fire. I am your host, Sarah Micatel, a certified clarity coach trained in the Enneagram, and I first moved abroad on my own at age 18, and I have been permanently enjoying life in Europe since 2010. If you are ready to make some big moves in your life

and want my help moving from someday to seize the day, visit live without borderspodcast.com. Hello, how are you? Where are you? Wouldn't it be great if we were in Greece right now? Well, my guest today is letting us live vicariously through her. I am speaking with Ivy Summer and she is an American nomad slash expat living in Varia, Greece. And this is an ancient city, famously important to the family of Alexander the Great and home to the best peach pie in Greece. So if you love pie and you love ancient history, then Varia is for you. And we will all also be talking about the best things to eat drinking do in the nearest big city, which is Thessaloniki. You'll hear about Ivy's favorite way to island hop in Greece. You'll discover

the most romantic part of Greece that you've probably never heard of. Ivy is a certified wedding planner so she knows all of the beautiful places. She's also a diversity consultant, and she has a lot of different things going on, and she is great at all of them. I had such a nice time talking to her and our conversation really filled me with wanderlust. So let's sit back and imagine that we are sailing around the coast of Greece together. Enjoy the episode. Welcome, Ivy. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm super happy to be speaking with you. Thanks so much for the opportunity. I believe you're an American, but now you're living in Greece. So how did you end up there? Yeah, I am an American and I am located in Greece.

I have been living here since February of 2019, and I moved here from San Francisco for so long. My husband and I have been talking about living in little towns across Europe for a few months at a time. He is half Greek, although he was born in Chicago. He was baptized here, and the church and state are very. much not separate in Greece. So we took that path to citizenship for him. And I just recently established my permanent residency. And we just realized, you know, it didn't make much sense to fly back and forth between San Francisco and Greece to do all this paperwork. And that's what brought

us over here once our lives, as far as our work was concerned as well, lined up and allowed us to plan the trip across the big pond. So your husband is half Greek, so he's eligible for Greek citizenship, and then you as his partner are able for like a partnership piece, or how does that work exactly? So my husband was able to get his Greek citizenship because his father was born here and my husband was baptized here. So we had the proper paperwork to register him as part of the family with the Greek government. And because I'm married to my husband, I could also register with the family. And how it works here in Greece is you register as a part of the family line. From there, I was able to bring my birth certificate and my marriage certificate and say,

I am the same person as who's on this marriage certificate. And I'm married to a Greek citizen. then thereby I am eligible for permanent residency in Greece for five years. And at the end of those five years, I would then be eligible for citizenship. Okay, got it. And so when we first connected, and I saw you on video, I was imagining you were going to be like on a beach patio, but you had like your hat on and your scarf on. So where exactly are you in Greece? So I'm in northern Greece.

I am in a town called Veria, and it's 45 minutes away from Thessaloniki, the second largest city to Athens. I'm about a five and a half hour drive north of Athens. And, you know, it is cold in the wintertime here. Sometimes it snows. In Varia, it's really surrounded by mountains. And every terrain that you can imagine is very accessible from Varia. We're 45 minutes away from the city, mountains, beach, park, and we're not far from the countryside. I think the desert is the only thing that we're really missing here.

Wow. So you like are very close to just about everything. Are you happy to be in that spot? Are you more of a city gal? Or how did you pick that particular place? Well, my husband's father was born in the house where we're currently living. And it was an old, it's an old house here. He was born in the manger area where the animals were. I mean, it's, it's an old house here. He was born in the manger area where the animals were. I mean, And it's a pretty, it's literally an ancient house. And we decided to move here because this is where our family is. And we'd be able to navigate not only the country, but the language and the lifestyle much easier with our family and to spend time with my husband's side of the family. So this is why we chose this area. And I have wrestled that question a lot. Like, I'm really glad that you asked this, Sarah, because I think a lot of people wonder, am I a city person? Am I a countryside person? Am I a mountain person?

I'm going to go and find my terrain. And I think I love it all, like so much. And so it is really nice to be somewhere in the middle. Well, you are very multi-passionate, which I think is great. And you're also an enneagram three. make things happen. You have so many different things going on. And I believe you can do all of your stuff as like a location independent entrepreneur right now. So tell me a little bit about the kinds of work that you do. Yeah. So I have sort of three parts to who I am. And being a digital

nomad is one of them. I also have been in the wedding industry. for over a decade now, which was my main career in San Francisco. And the third part is that I'm a diversity and inclusion consultant. So, you know, if you're inspired to diversify your workforce or your customer base, but you're not sure how, that is my sweet spot. I normally hear people say, especially after the uprising in 2020, after Ahmad Armory, Brianna Taylor, George Floyd, you know, let's make a diversity committee or let's make a diversity book club from my prospective clients.

And I'm here to really help organizations of all sizes develop ownership over real systemic change within their community and achieve those diversity and inclusion initiatives may never thought possible. And my specialty there is identifying areas of business that really hinder that organization or community's potential for diversity. And I recommend how to establish best practices in a way that sticks. The wedding planning side is so different from diversity and inclusion. And I'll say a little bit of that, I think it was 10 years ago.

I was living in Florence, Italy. And I ended up at the wrong train station and I was lost. And I ran into a destination wedding planner. who plans weddings in the hills of Tuscany. And I just asked, you know, can I be your intern while I'm studying here? And he said, yeah. And I was like, wow, like in 10 years, I want to do it he's doing. I want to do that.

And here I am, you know, 10 years later, it was the pandemic. And I was hired as a luxury celebrity and destination wedding planner based in Athens. and I worked there for four days and then the lockdown happened. So I shifted from wedding planning as a full-time job, made that my side gig when I launched my online wedding planning workshop for couples and wrote the world's first book about how to plan a wedding in a pandemic called Poise Over Panic. And I made my side hustle of diversity inclusion consulting my main job. And so here we are.

Well, yes, that is a lot of things. So what, and first of all, I think it's awesome that when you were a student, you had like, yeah, I don't even know what to call it, like the vision, I guess, to see somebody doing something that you would be interested in, ask if you could be an intern and then develop your skills from there. I just think that is so cool. What would you say, if there is one, like, what would be the thread between these different things that you're interested? in doing? That is a great question. You know, I think the thread here is that I like to create experiences for people that enabled them to really shine in their own lives. Diversity and inclusion. I love creating event plans. In fact, I have 26 different event plans that coincide with each month's heritage and awareness initiative to create these proactive opportunities for engagement for any organization that is interested in doing more than just a book club or diversity committee. So I have the tools and the capacity to help folks implement these tools and coordinate

these event plans for their own lives and to inspire those kinds of experiences that really make a lasting difference. And the same goes for, you know, however they plan their own wedding, I want to be there to give them the tools, tips, templates, resources, and the worldwide network that I have and appeal to their DIY passion to see their vision through. I love this. So it sounds like you want to help people create experiences that are going to last a lifetime. Yeah, exactly. Wedding rituals. Is there a particular wedding ritual that you thought was particularly beautiful or interesting? Yeah, I think that weddings here in Greece, it's so interesting. I'm looking forward to

the dancing. I absolutely love to dance. And I noticed that it is just tradition for folks to play traditional music from centuries ago here. And it's, it gets more playtime than your modern music, your modern dance music that you might find at a club, for example. And so the entire family and guests from ages, you know, four, five, six, to 90, 92, 93, 94, 95 are on the dance floor doing these traditional dances to these traditional songs altogether. And that's something that you can expect here in Greece. And even if you don't know all the dance moves, like the electric slide or the cha cha cha'is slide or the Cupid shuffle, Everyone knows the dances to these Greek songs, and it's super fun to join in, even if you don't. But that's definitely a cool tradition that I've seen bring all generations together.

What are people eating at a Greek wedding? They definitely eat Greek food. So you won't find very many fusion dishes at a Greek wedding. it's often many different salads. And I'll say that in Greece, salads rarely have lettuce in them. They're often everything else. I love that because I'm not a big lettuce fan. And I've been a vegetarian almost my entire life.

And I don't eat that many salads. And people are like, what do you eat then? And so I love that their salads don't have. I love a good Greek salad. Yes, it's interesting. I think it was a little bit foreign to me, but, you know, that's very common to see that and hors d'oeuvres that include things like fish row and melanzano salata. Sometimes I can only remember the names of things in Greek and I can't actually remember the English name, but it's eggplant salad. You know, I was going to guess that because that sounds very similar to how you would say it in Italian. Ah, yeah, exactly. Perfecto.

Possimo to be in Italian, if I want. No, no so. Then I can't speak Italian so much anymore, but I started learning it 10 years ago, and that's the thing about traveling is that I will lose a language if I can't. continue to practice it. But I do remember non-lo-so. I don't know in Italian. Well, you do speak Greek now, I believe. Yes, I'm conversational in Greek. I'm picking it up a lot faster than my husband actually now. Oh, I was thinking your husband spoke Greek, but your father-in-law does. Yes. It's from grace. Exactly. Yeah, it's always helpful if you can like be around people like your father-in-law who will be hopefully speaking to you in Greek. Well, it's really odd because,

Because when I do speak to him in Greek and I'll ask, is it like this? Do I say it like this? Like, please correct me. He doesn't even bother to correct me. And, you know, his girlfriend doesn't speak English, has no desire to learn English. And you'll find a lot of people in the town of Veria are like this. If they don't want to speak English or they're much older, you know, they probably won't learn. And so aside from duolingo, my practice. comes from speaking to the locals here. And so many times they just don't want to correct me because I understand what you're saying is what they tell me. Yeah. And I'm like, no, I want to know how to say it correctly. So when I get things wrong in duolingo, I'm like, okay, that's where they didn't, they let me get away with saying it incorrectly here. Yeah. Well, I was just talking to somebody who, I love doing conversation exchanges. I'm not sure how feasible that would be where you are. But somebody I know is doing, like online lessons through something called i-talkie.

Huh, I've never heard of this. I-talkie. Yeah. And so that could be an option for you if you wanted to get some extra practice in with somebody who would actually correct you. I'll check it out. Thank you. All right, Ivy, I would love to get a visual snapshot of where you are in Grace.

Like, what does the postcard look like? What does this place look like? Ooh, yeah, pretty historic. Although Veria is outside of the biggest cities, and it's up north. It's not one of the islands that you'll normally see on a Greek postcard. It is a very historic place. We have the land of Alexander the Great right here. You can see the tombs of Philip of Macedon and his family all around here.

and you'll also find the very first church here where St. Paul came and preached about Christianity for the first time. So this is a very popular place for religious tour groups. We also have the oldest synagogue in Europe in the Jewish quarters of the town in Varia here. So this is very, it would be a very religious-looking postcard with Matt. massive, beautiful tombs. Well, well, this sounds like an ideal place for history lovers. And, yeah, I wasn't sure what you were going to say. And now I'm like, oh, my gosh, I totally want to come.

I'll come visit you. Yeah, I'll host you. I'd be happy to. What surprised you the most about Greece when you moved there, either culturally or food-wise or anything? You know, I have to say, I came from San Francisco. and living there for seven years. So I was of the mindset. I'm going to wake up and I'm going to work out. I'm going to do my yoga or whatever. And I am going to work at 9 a.m. and I'll work through 5 or 6 p.m. and I may or may not take a lunch break because then I can finish my day faster. You know, I was go, go, go hustle and bustle. And when I got here, I was getting so frustrated if I couldn't get to work at 9 a.m., like, get

online, be working already. And if I went to take a break or, you know, run to the bank or send a letter through the post, well, everything's closed from 2 or 2.30 until about 5. And I was not going the same pace as this slower pace of life here. So that was a thing that was probably the most shocking. And it took me so long to get used to that. It's like I had amnesia. Every time I woke up, I would get to work and they get frustrated all over again that things were closed with. It's like I didn't learn already and I had been doing this for months. So that's the first thing I can think of. So what do your mornings look like now and how did you make the adjustment? Oh, my mornings look like getting up slowly. And, you know, my bladder is my alarm clock. So that's how I live now.

I will probably get up around nine or 10 or somewhere in between. And I have to say it is different during the winter than it is during the summer. In the summertime, I'll wake up closer to 8 or 8.30. In the winter, I wake up a little bit later. And, you know, that's just, that's how my routine goes. I had to learn the hard way after, of course, you can imagine getting frustrated. again and wondering why my routine isn't the same all year round. But that's okay. We're human and we change. So how are you feeling? Do you feel more rested in your life in Greece? I don't want to, I guess that's a

leading question, but do you? But do you? Yeah, I really do. I've, you know, you have no choice, but to assimilate to the pace of life. If everything around you is going a certain pace, you can only fight that off for so long. I mean, you have to be realistic. You are a product of your environment. It is a huge factor in how you behave. So yeah, I would have to say I do enjoy this pace of life. I've learned how to be accustomed to it. And I am working half the hours that I was working in San Francisco. I work about 20 hours a week on average. And what are you doing in the rest of your time? Oh, I'm working out. I'm building community. I am speaking Greek with the locals. I'm, you know, out and about walking around as much as I can, you know, pandemic permitting. And, you know, I'm seeing what projects I might want to come up with next. But that's how I usually spend my time.

Well, it sounds like you're living the expat nomad dream. Yeah. So I would love to dive more into like a Greek travel. So you have been around Greece. You are an avid traveler and also a travel agent of sorts, I believe, at least for couples who are looking for like a dream holiday. So if I were coming to Greece for like a week or two, how should I spend my time? Okay. So for a more romantic trip, I know where a lot of couples can spend their honeymoon or right after their destination wedding here in Greece. Down south in the Peloponis, there is a little town called Monomvasia. And it is a beautiful coastal town that has big. doors that look like the entrance to a museum. And as soon as you walk in, it's like a living museum. People live in this town, this historic town that used to be barracks. And there is a lot

of history and tours, but also a town where you have active shops, you have local activities, and every single street that you turn down is like a tiny little corridor with cobblestones everywhere and a beautiful view of the sea. So I love that spot because it feels like you're living in a giant castle. And the hotels in this town will serve you like a three-course breakfast. So you get to wake up and spend a more. that feels like it's several hours long. And this sounds like the most magical place ever.

It doesn't even sound real. It is magical. I really long to go back there. And is there, do you remember like a particular place that you really liked for like a three hour breakfast or something like that? You know, I have to, I have to recall the name of, of that particular hotel. There was one place where we spent a three-hour breakfast in Volos, in Pillion. And that is where Mama Mia was filmed.

Okay. And so that's probably on the east side of the country, a little bit north. It's definitely a few hours north of Athens. And there's a place called Pension Pannos. And I swear, it's just like the. story of Mamma Mia where a couple visited there. They had their honeymoon there. And they were like, oh my God, like we want to buy this six room little hotel like Mama Pop hotel. And they did. And now they live there as a couple and they host people. And I'm like, that's, I think literally the story of

Mama Mia. She goes and she's like a little tiny, tiny resort. And they will home make your entire breakfast and they make the jams, they make the butter, they make the bread, you know what I mean, from scratch. So that is one place where you can go and enjoy. If somebody wants to go to the Greek islands, where would they be going? Like, how would you map out like in order that makes sense to do? Well, first you start from Athens and that's where most of the international flights would come in in the first place. And also the airports, the islands, I would just skip that entirely so that you can take the ferry to go there. It is a really nice experience. So start from Athens and take the ferry from the Athens port to Patras. I would start there

and to enjoy the differences between the islands that you'll visit. Paros is another island that's the closest to Athens. So I would maybe actually start there. and then make your way to Santorini, spend just a couple or a few nights in each of these islands before you head back to the cities. Santorini has black sand beach and it also has a red sand beach. So those are some opportunities to actually enjoy these different beaches and go to the lesser-known part. and go to the lesser-known parts of Santorini, not just the caldera,

where you'll see all of the white stucco buildings on the side of the cliff, but go to Fira where the ancient, ancient, I mean, this is like 4,000 years ago, towns were built and excavated underground, and you'll see, like, wow, they came up with plumbing from the second floor that long ago. And you can see that this technology, like, we still use it today. So those are some

pretty cool things for some history lovers out there as well. Yeah, that's incredible. So what are your favorite islands? I mean, Santorini sounds beautiful. The beaches sound amazing. And I love that history. But you mentioned that the different islands kind of have a different flavor. So what's the difference between the islands? I'll say if you go to Santorini, I mean, the Caldera is the hallmark, right? I mean, that is, you're not going to find that on other islands. It's surrounding the volcano, which you can also take the ferry to straight from Santorini. And it's got this kind of nightlife vibe where at sunset, all of the pools are lit up and the stucco is just bright white. it's just, it stands out like nothing else.

And of course, there are clubs and things like that. So it's definitely got more of a party vibe. In Paros, you have much more of a boutique feel. So you'll find all of these boutique shops, artisan crafts, and very boutique clothes. And so if you're more of like a shopper and you want an experience of or you're a collector of some sort, I would definitely recommend paros. It seems like the pace is a lot slower there. It's much more relaxed. You can kind of walk around and enjoy window shopping, boutique shopping, etc.

For those who really love dancing and old town and a lot of. of beach as well and to visit an acropolis. There's an acropolis on meconos and a lot of like the old town has Spanish dancing nights and hookah lounges and things like that. So that's a bit of the difference between a few of these islands. That sounds really fun. What if you're a foodie and you love to eat, which island should we spend time on? Or where in Greece should we spend time?

I would say the mainland for that. So the islands have to import everything, you know. And on the island of Santorini, you have a lot of different types of food like Thai, Chinese, American, French, which is really interesting. You're not going to find that so much on the mainland. You'll find a lot more. traditional food in the mainland. So if you're looking for right now, it's the peach orchards are blooming. There's, I mean, it's like super, super pink flowers. And here in Varia, there's a whole valley. And it's featured on National Geographic. This is the land of peaches. So if you love peaches, you love peach pie, you'll find Varia is definitely the place for you.

there's a treat called Revanee, and it's like a sponge cake that's soaked in syrup. And this town of Veria has the best reveni in Greece. Like I said, it's like a five-hour drive from coast to coast. So if you're in Athens, six hours south, and you're like, where can I find the best Revani? People down there will say Veria. So there are parts of the country where the best, you know, so the meat is well, sausage, Veria and the northern part of Greece is very well known for its meats, for example. And you said you were about 45 minutes to the next major town. I'm not going to try to pronounce it. What was it again? Thessaloniki.

Yeah. Okay. That wasn't as hard as I was thinking. What should we see there? And is there any recommendations for museums or places to eat? Oh my God. I absolutely love Thessaloniki. It reminds me a little bit of San Francisco. You have the entire bay right there. And so you have the sea just available all along the side of the city. It's near the city center that's very, very popular for tourists and for just people to hang out and be able to walk along this very long esplanade. There are tons of cafes and restaurants along there that just offer the best site of the sea. And there are little ships that look like pirate ships or look like rostified pirate ships that go around the bay.

and it's free to ride them, just go. And they'll go out there every half hour or every 45 minutes or so. And you'll need to order a drink once you board, but you're out there on the water for 30 or 45 minutes, enjoying your drink or something to eat on those ships. And they have great music and folks dressed up in costume. So that's a very fun activity. even for the locals.

I would also recommend hanging out at Agia Sophia. Some of the churches here are, I mean, really, really old, also ancient, and have a lot of history. So some of the churches you'll see used to be a mosque and then changed when things shifted after the Ottoman Empire. You'll see a lot of historical sites like this and like the white tower. in Thessaloniki, which is right next to where you would board some of those ships, the fun ships that I was talking about. And then also one of the most popular things and the treats in all of Greece called Trigonon, which is the Greek version of a canoli is in Thessaloniki. It's at a place called Elinides. And if you go anywhere in Greece and ask where the best Trigonon is, they're going to.

say Thessaloniki. Oh, that sounds delicious. So what is the difference between Greek and Italian canoli? The Greek pastry part of the canoli is like filo wrapped over and over again, like a very small, if you imagine an ice cream cone, but flattened and only like puff pastry and then kind of saturated in a simple syrup. That's what. what the crust of that canola is like. And the ricotta filling is the same as an Italian canoli. And the Italian canoli crust is more like, how would you say? It's like a fried, a fried like cone. I think it's harder shell. Well, it sounds like they love their syrups and honeies over there. Oh, they do. In Greece. So this city sounds amazing. And it's not a place that

I hear too many non-Greek people going to. Is there any sort of like city rivalry between Athens and tell me again how to pronounce it? Thessaloniki. Yeah, there absolutely is. And you know in Europe, they're all about their football, aka soccer. And Thessaloniki is the Pauk team and Athens is the Ike team. And they're really big rivals when it comes to that. In fact, I think Pauk is the one single most graffitied thing that I see around town anywhere I go.

So, yeah, they're really, really big on that. And I think a reason why you don't hear about Thessaloniki as much is because Athens is the international hub of Greece. and half of the Greek population is living in Athens. So, you know, we have about 11 million people and at least 5.5 million are living in Athens. Well, I'm going to Thessaloniki. Yeah. And there's, I mean, it's super cool. You can go to escape rooms and you can choose English or Greek to do the escape room.

I mean, there are a lot of really fun. There's huge hostels here. There's Chinese food, which, you know, I'm a big. foodie. So I'm like, well, if there's something other than Greek food, I'd also like to try it out. And it's a real Chinese food. I'll like order and I'll say, no, I want the real, I want the real Chinese version. They're real spicy. And they're like, okay, I know what you're talking about. So you can find these incredible gems in the city. Yeah, I think it's quite interesting how, you know, when I lived in Italy, it was also a lot of Italian food unless you were, you know, in one of the bigger cities. And even then, I think that's kind of a foreign concept to a lot of people who are in a place like San Francisco or New York or London that you'd be surrounded by the country's native food most of the time. Yeah, exactly. Yep. So, Ivy, can we do a little lightning round of where you're living?

favorite things of where you're living. Okay, let's do it. So it can either be your town or if you want to go to Vesiliniki as well. What is your favorite cafe and what's the cafe culture like in Greece? It is the whole culture. I would say cafe. It's like, I think they drink eight coffees a day. And it's like little, little coffee cups. Like it's what some people recognize as Turkish coffee. The cafe culture, is huge. People go to the cafe at all hours of the day, except between two and five, usually. And people even have cafes wherever they work. So one time I was walking through Thessaloniki and I was kind of on the edge of town where all of the car mechanic stores are. And I'm like, okay, I've got to ask for directions. When inside one store that sold tires, they were letting

me know the Wi-Fi password and asked if I would like some coffee. They made coffee for me on the spot. So I have to say that my favorite cafe is wherever I'm at, because literally wherever you are, gas station, shoe store, grocery store, you name it. They have the tools and the materials to make coffee for you on the spot and they'll offer it to you. What hospitality. I love it. So you mentioned that the coffee could seem like what people would recognize as Turkish coffee, which it's interesting like what country you're in because, you know, because of the Ottoman Empire that spread around. And, you know, if you're in Bosnia, we'll call it Bosnian coffee. But it's like what we would classically know is Turkish coffee. And there's been a lot of like conflict with Turkey and Greece over the years as well. Okay, favorite restaurant. My favorite restaurant is, oh, there's one restaurant that does their musaka and brisket really well. It's called Philippio. And I love that restaurant. What are some Greek dishes that we should try? We can narrow it down by saying vegetarian dishes. Okay. A lot of them are vegetarian, actually. So I would say tour little, which, believe it or not, that, means ratatouille. So, you know, zucchini, eggplant, potatoes, throw them in a pan with some oil, salt, and pepper, and you've got tortellu. It's delicious with a side of Greek yogurt. And I would say

a lot of the fruit that grow here. So peaches, oranges, we have cherries, kiwis in the fall. They're amazing. And we grow them here. All of these things you can present. And so I've learned to how to preserve them and preserving all the fruit here with some Greek yogurt. Those are amazing so that you can enjoy that flavor at any point in the year, even if it's out of season. Everything that you eat here is in season. There is no getting things out of season. So I love that about the food culture. Wow. So you're a proper Greek woman now. Or jarring your own marmalade. Exactly. What's your favorite shopping area? My favorite shopping area is Thessaloniki. Oh my God. It's like a shopping city. You can just window shop for the whole day. And I love it. And so I love the near Aristotelos Square. You're going to find a lot of clothing shops, a lot of tech shops, a lot of home goods shops, all of this different fashion. So you can do that all on the same main street in Thessaloniki right by Aristotle Square.

and then also shop for like delicious treats. So you got everything you could possibly need right there. Where do you like to out at night? I mean, I love being by the water at night. In the old fish market in Thessaloniki, there is this beautiful cafe. And they have like a hookah lounge there. It's very beautiful. there there's another area like that just east of agiosophia and thuslo niki if you keep walking up hill there

and there are all these like cute lounge cafes that have this Arabic vibe to them or this like Malibu vibe to them and they're they're super unique and very cool so I love to kind of check out those spaces. Here in Varia, there is a part of town that's like very old style, cobblestone streets, stone buildings, and it's kind of got this Byzantine look to it, and they have wonderful cocktails as well there. So all of the little corners of town that you might, you might not notice very obviously at first are my favorite places to be. What's the best place to get a cocktail in Varya? Cucuvaya was very good. And I would say Delante.

This is also very good. Where do you like to go in the mood for some culture? When I'm in the mood for culture, I'll go to one of the museums. So we have a Byzantine museum here in Veria. We also have, like I said, the White Tower in Thessaloniki. And all of the different churches, which are generally open during the day, You can just walk in and you'll see all the frescoes on the walls, the different styles and gold-plated candles and things like this.

And so I love just going in there and admiring all of the art and the atmosphere. It's just gorgeous. Yeah, you could really spend your day just drinking coffee, going into a church, looking at the art, repeat all day, and then go on a boat and sail around and have some drinks. Yeah. Simple life. So, Ivy, what advice would you give to somebody who's interested in doing the nomad or expat life in Greece? I would say, you know, if you're interested, you know, get in touch with me. I'm happy to chat with you.

I think that exploring as much as possible before you make that big trip and ask as many questions as you can is really beneficial. So finding community around that topic who can share their experience and impart wisdom is a great place to start. That's great. And have you met any other expats in your area? I have. I went and I found a Facebook group called expats in Greece. And I was on there for a while before I moved here. And I used it to find some folks in my area. And then we met up. in Thessaloniki and got to hang out. So I have definitely found lifelong friends through those communities. Ivy, thank you for all of your advice and sharing your story with us. It's been so nice talking to you. Where can we find out more about you? Oh, you can find me on social media,

on Facebook, on Instagram, on Clubhouse, on Instagram and Clubhouse and Twitter. I'm at Lunch with Ivy. And online, you. You can find my blog about living abroad at that place.rocks, R-O-C-K-S. You can also find my website about wedding planning at Vule-A-E-E-E-V-E-E-V-E-E-V-E-E-V-E-E-E-V-O-E-E-E-E-V-O-E-E-E-E-C. You can find me right here. Well, I will link to all of this in the episode note, so thank you very much, Ivy. Thanks so much. That's all for now.

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