Clinton Jaws - Sometimes De-escalation Does not Work

Episode Date: August 12, 2020

June 21, 2020 incident Queens, Newyork. NYPD Bodycam Footage Tasering Man 7 times - Breakdown. Sometimes De-escalation Does not Work Former police officer breaks down video and explains how difficult it can be to control a resisting subject. Touches on similarities of the Robert Dziekanski death at Vancouver airport. George Zapantis suffered from mental illness and was tasered by police in order to gain control of him. Zapantis died in the hospital from cardiac arrest. - de-escalation can fail -health care workers should never go to these calls -how cops de-escalate -hard to check somones pulse, cpr - difficult taking someone to the ground who doesnt want it. #policebreakdown #policepodcast https://www.clintonjaws.com/

Hey guys, Clint here talking about cop stuff again. I got a video I want you to see. It happened June 21st, 2020 in New York. It's a good one. It's a long one. I like longer videos because it gets you to know the police officers. It gets you to know. I want you to watch how the cops interact with each other,

how they communicate with each other. I find that stuff interesting. You get to know their personalities. What happens on that night? Neighborhood dispute. The fella's angry because the neighbor won't turn on an outside light or won't turn off an outside light. So he comes outside with a sword, then he goes back inside. The cops arrive.

There's a lot of them. And they want to talk to the subject, okay? I was going to call them SOC, but you don't know what that means, probably. Some of you do. But they want to talk to the subject. And come on back. I'm going to break it down. If you don't want to watch a video, you just want to hear me break things down.

then fast forward. Enjoy. So, Carnet, come. He refused to turn it off, he didn't say anything. My son went and turned it off, and he came out with a nightmare, I mean, with a sword on my sword. Who's this guy, man? I don't know that guy. I don't know that guy. He probably went to the neighborhood and just heard it for you.

That's it. And I can show you the light in the back. That's it. Turned it off and then, you know, he gets emotional. That's it. So somebody about being w or something. What about it? This is our call? The cool is saying there was a fire on the fall.

Is there? Oh, no. No. Was there a black car of any type? No. All right, so you wanted to shut the light off, right? Because we don't know who the light belongs to. So we just asked.

You want to show us the light? Yeah, come. I just don't like this. All right. And then he drew a sword on my son. I don't like that. Mom-Aid. Yeah, well,

listen, mom-house, look at the one-up. So who's this guy? I have no idea who this guy is. Wait, but does he live here? No. Oh, okay. No idea who he is at all. That's weird.

Never even seen him in my life. All right. Hey, ma'am, you live here too? You live here? I don't live down here. Okay. Come out. Don't come out and talk to us.

Yeah, we just gotta hear a story. We need your side of the story. How long you guys been living with this? Well, not the name. How long have you been living here? That you guys are you know. What's his name? George.

George. George. Sir, it's the New York City Police Department. Sir. We just want to talk. All right, sir, you need to put that sword down. You need to put that. Whatever you have in your hand, you have to put it down.

It looks... Yeah, it looks something shiny. Something shiny. Sir, just... Get off my property. It's the police department. Sir, it's the police department. We just...

We just want to talk. We are the police. You can just open the curtain and you're sick... George. If you open the current, you'll see that I... I'm a police officer. So why will you call the police officers if we're the police officers? You're going to call your own police department?

Yes. And who is that? We are the police department. Oh, he definitely has something in sand. Yeah. It's big. Yeah, I just saw it. He still has, but he walked all the way out to the back left.

Is it a sword? There's no other access to this apartment? Right. There's no other access to this apartment? I just want to make sure that everybody who's inside doesn't... You got a long black hole like this in his hand, so. Yeah, that's what I saw too, right? Does that hold?

Yeah. Well, I don't know if he has like any mentor or does anybody know? Well, he wants to call. his own police department. He doesn't take you the police? Yeah, no, he just says I'm gonna call my own police department. You guys see him? No, the curtains covering everything. He's telling us to just get out. He wants to call his own police department. I mean now I can see him, I can't see you got out of the room. He wasn't at the door anymore. All right, you want to call the supervisor? The supervisor. Is he here? No, there's

Definitely, no surprise here. Oh, all right. They're saying that there's no other entrance. Okay. I mean, so what did he tell you? Because I have no idea what he said to you. The Muhammad said to it. Basically, he came around the corner, and the guy came out with a sword.

Just for no reason? Because he's pissed off. He wants the light on. So the kid who lives upstairs can shut the light off. And he shut the line. You see how it's off now? So when he shut it off, He came around the corner and the guy came out with a sword, pointing a sword out of him.

Right now, we don't have any reason to go in. Right. As he comes out. Okay. I don't know if he has a mental history. I don't know if he's an EDP. He said he was going to call his own police department. He's not opening him.

Yeah, he might. He's not opening it. Yeah. Like little or? It looks like... No, it's like... It's long. It's long.

Yeah, it's long. It's long. He's called on the phone. He's called 911. He's on the phone with someone. It's called 911. That'll be the fastest where you are in his center. It's on the center.

It's on like a... It's in his waist. It's in his waist? Yeah. Yeah. What's two, close or one found out? Like in the hall store? George?

Hello Hi Where the police department? Just come around and talk to us Did that really just happen? Dude, he's wearing gladi He's wearing gladiating Sir, just step back with the sword

Don't open it Don't open it if you have your sword We are the police department We don't need the Marine Corps We're the police department We're the police department. We're not going to do the Marine Corps where the police department why you need them I don't need you to go back I need you to take that whatever you have on you you have to take it down somebody go

taser go the supervisor in ESU all right I'll do that just come down just calm down okay just come down the sergeant's on his way okay but I just need you to calm down I'm a security guard. Just come down. Okay, that's fine. All right. We're gonna call it, but can you, we will. But we need you.

Okay, but we need you to calm down. George, can you do as a favor? Can you just put that on the ground? Can you just put the sword on the ground? We're the police department. I'm armed. This is my house. I have to defend from us.

We're not gonna hurt you. I don't care, man. You guys gotta go. We're not gonna hurt you, man. We are the police, God damn. We are the police, sir. All right, let him. Let him get close. I don't care of this one.

Just watch where you're standing in it because if you have a gun. Right, boy. All right, you could leave it there. Leave it right there. Right. This is my sergeant. I'm a soldier. Okay, but George, can you please just get rid of your weapon?

I mean, he's clearly he dep- Yeah, yeah. I put it over easy already. Do you have the rope or that like? Oh. It should be attached to the shield. So we could just close this thing? Oh, we don't have to be.

Yeah, we need to knock on this neighbor's board. Let me see. Because apparently he's got a problem with them too. Find out what he's done. Yeah, find out what we need to find more out about this guy. We go get the rope. I have. Just be careful because if he was military, he might have guns inside.

That's right. That's what I'm trying to, but like I don't want to also leave this. That's why I need that rope. He said he wanted us to call a sergeant. He wanted us to call that whatever. Whatever. Be careful, right? Just be careful. Stay off the windows, well check. He might be military. He might be ex-military. He might be ex-military. Just wait, don't get in the door. I can't hear you, wrong.

Yeah. I may have. You want to get it from my car? Because he had a little bit more Yeah, just tied up Yeah, just tied. I just want to see if that's In the glist or here and it's an inward facing door. He said cold and marine corp.

He might be... What? Sir? All right, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, don't open, don't open. Don't open, don't open. Wait, wait. I'm not armed. I swear to God.

Can you turn around? Can you just turn around for me? No, absolutely not. No, just so I could see that you have no weapon. Okay. Okay. Alright. Are you calm?

What do you have? I'm a security guard. This guy does not like you. I have the light on for his case. And the guy upstairs can shut my light up. Now with all this that's happening, I'm very protective at night time. I have a sick... I don't mind you being protected, but you can't come out the way you came out.

Yeah, but you guys, look at you. Look at your waist, bro. But did you see me touching my... Look at your waist. I didn't touch you. Fuck you off! Here! Get down. Come on. Come on. Come on.

Get back. Get back. Come up, bro. I'll fuck you. Come out right now, boy. Come up, bro. Motherfuck, I lost my fucking shoe. I'll fuck you on. I'll stop. I'll fuck you up, bro. I'll fuck you up. Please. Stop!

Staying face for here! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop, quick! Stop, stop! Stop! Stop! Get down, no! Get down, no!

Get down, now! Get down, now. Get down! Get on the ground! Get down, get on the ground. You're gonna get in again if you don't get down. Get down on the ground! Oh, fuck!

Get down, get down, put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back. All, you get up the handcuffs. Now! your hands behind your back and stop! You understand me? I can't. All right, go, go.

Somebody help him out. Help him out. You're choking me. You're choking my shirt. You can't breathe. Help David! Nobody's choking you. Nobody's choking you.

Oh, that, hold that. Jack, don't help me. David's arresting you, brother. Come on, dude. You can stop. David! David! Stop!

Just stop! Call my way! Call my way! David, help me! Stop struggling. I got this thing up then. Hold on. Hold on, pull out.

Hold on. Stop struggling, man! Stop! Gero. Alright, he's good. He's good. That's it. You got him? You got him.

You got him. Not yet. Not yet. Put your hands behind your back. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Give us your right arm. Just give us your right on. Just give us your right on. Stop. How is that way? Give me. You're right. You're not.

You're not. Give me the right now. You're good? No, right now. No. No. I don't know. Get me your arm.

Dude, stop. Just give us your arm. Give us your arm. No. Yeah, I have a right arm. I got a cup on. I'm almost there. Get a cup on it.

Oh my God. Get his life. Get his left arm. Hold on. All right, Kara. All right, guys, I got a cup on it. I got a cup on the right. Give us your hands.

Give us your hands. Just give us your hands. Watch out then. Oh my god. Wait, wait, watch out. I have her... Be careful, gilsing. You're squishing her head. It's okay, it's okay.

I'm holding onto the cuff. I got the cuff. Where? It's right here. You got my hand? Just stop. You got it? Just give us your hands! Just get your hand!

Just get it's your hand! Ow! Stop! Fuck! Hands! Give us your hands! Just give us your hands! Give us your hands!

Give us your hands and stop! Give us your hands! Cut it out, we're not fighting. Go! Give it! Don't fight, give us your hands. Just give us your hands! I'm losing his leg.

Guys, do I start? I can't get up another. I'm gonna fucking wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold this cold, fuck you down. I'm broke, gonna turn. Stop! Stop! Stop!

Just stop. David, calm down. Guys, calm down. David, David, David, listen to me right now. The tasers on your back. Just put your arm behind your back. We'll get you, we'll talk about this, all right?

We'll call your sergeant. Right, David, we're going to call your sergeant. We're going to all talk, okay? Just stop. Just chill out and we'll all talk about it. Give me your arm. The arm and touch you. Just give you the left arm, all right?

We'll get you up. The tasers on your back. Okay, so we're off my back, are you good? Are you good? Are you good? All right. David. David, just give me your left hand.

George, just give us your hands. Okay, I got it, I got it. Okay, just stop. Hold on. David, you're ready? You're good? You got both the ones? No, yeah.

Get two cuffs, two cuffs. David, you all right? I can't get out. Roll them on the side. Roll them on the side. Roll them on the side. What side do you want? Let's right.

Get him in cups first. Get him in cups first. Get him in the cops. Get them on the side. I think there's the bus here. There's a bus. Alright, go get the bus. Get him, mess. Roll them on the side. Get him on the side. Get him on the side.

All right, watch out, what's up. Let's mix. Mix, make space. Mixed, make space. You have pulse? Yeah. All right. Keep on inside. He's got a pulse, right? Watch out with the taser.

Watch out with the taser. Watch all in the taser. You're talking? George, I think. He's greener. Make sure he breathed. Yeah, is he responding right? I'm trying to see.

Yeah, he's got a pulse. Check his pull. Why do you MS come through, guys? Guys, guys, make space. Make space. All right, guys. You still got a pull. So as a pole.

Sir? All right, wait, wait, wait, wait, don't open, don't open. Don't open. Wait. No, no, swear to God. Can you turn around for a second? Can you just turn around for me? No, absolutely no.

No, just so I could see that you have no weapon. Okay, okay? All right. All right. Is he lock out? He'll come. I'm a security. It's okay.

He went and didn't use it. Okay. And the guy upstairs can shut my light up. Now with all this that's happening, I'm very protective at night here. I have a sick. I don't mind you being protected, but you can out the way you came out.

Yeah, but you guys, look at you, look at your waist, bro. Look at your waist, look at your waist. I didn't touch me. Look at your way. Look at you! Come on, come, come, come, come up, go. Get back, go. Come up, come up.

Come up, come up. Watch the sword, man. Got a stop, got to stop. Stop. I'll fuck you up. Oh, fuck you are! Oh, go! TACE!

Taser! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Get down.

Get down! Get down! Get down! Get on the ground! Get on the ground! Get on the ground. You're getting a Taser again. You get on the ground!

Get down on the ground! Oh, fuck. Get down! Help! Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back! Put your hands behind your back! Right, got the hands, don't stop!

Put your hands behind your back and stop! Do you understand me? All right. I gotta stop, stop! I'll fuck you up! I'll fuck you up! I'll fuck you up! You can't!

You can't! David! Stay danger. Stop. Stop! You're gonna get Taser again. We're gonna get Taze again. Get down on the ground!

Oh, fuck! Get down, help, help, help. Put your hands behind your back. Put your hands behind your back, now. Put your hands behind your back. Put your back now. Right, got the hand go, come down. Put your hands behind your back and stop.

You understand me? I got you. I got you. Stop. The shirt, the shirt, the shirt, the shirt. The shirt. David! David's arresting me, bro!

Come on, dude! David! David! David! David! Just stop! Pull him. Pull him. Pull him.

Take it up. Help. Help, help, help, help. Please only, I'm not going to hurt you. Promise I won't hurt you, people. Okay, just give me your left door. Just give me your left door. Don't get me.

Give us your hands! That's choking me back, everything! Oh, go out! Give us your hands! Sir, give me your... Just give us your hands! Give us your hands and stop!

That's why social workers don't attend those calls. That's why nurses don't attend those calls. So please, Canadian government, stop suggesting that police stop attending the EDP calls, the mentally disturbed calls that involve mentally disturbed calls that involve mentally disturbed people, emotionally disturbed people. Stop saying police shouldn't be attending those. Craig, Greg Fergus.

Do you hear me? Stop suggesting it, okay? That's why police attend those calls. Stop saying that's what you don't want. You want police at those calls all the time, every time. Let's break the video down. Okay, so the subject complains that he can't breathe, can't breathe, he can't breathe. That's why the cop cuts his shirt or rips his shirt. Watch this.

David! David! David! Just stop! Pull him, pull my... I'm only showing you that because I don't know if you've seen it. I thought it was a something interesting for you to see. I want you to see how cops tried to de-escalate the situation, right Greg Fergus? They tried to de-escalate the situation. They're always trying to usually trying to de-escalate a situation. This is how this police officer tries to de-escalate the situation. Take a look. I don't mind you being protected, but you can't come out the way you came out.

Yeah, but you guys, look at you. Look at your waist, bro. Look at you see me touching my... I didn't touch me. De-escalation. That's de-escalation. Yeah, simple as that. That's what you do. Hey, hey, you can't come.

out the way you come out. And sometimes you just can't de-escalate a situation. Did you see how he snapped over nothing? He snapped because of what the cop was wearing around his belt. Look at you, buddy. Look at you, buddy. And he lost his mind. Sometimes it doesn't work. And that's what's going to happen if you put a nurse or a social worker to a call like that. They're going to snap. That's why cops show up with weapons in case they snap. It doesn't matter what you do. It didn't matter what they did. He was going through something. The subject was going through something. I don't want to say bad guy in this case, because I feel bad for this guy. He clearly is suffering. The toxicology report, they did an autopsy, is not back. Maybe he was filled with drugs. We're going to

find out. I don't know. But he's very disturbed. Pretty obvious. You can't de-escalate him. It's not going to happen. Short clip here, he's got a pulse, right? Watch it. Make sure he's breathing. You're okay? Yeah, I'm bleeding a little bit. Is he good?

That's your hand. I'm trying to see. It's fine. It's fine. All right. Guys, guys, guys. Make space. All right, guys.

He's still got a pull. Do you know how difficult it is? to finding somebody's pulse, especially when you've been, do you know how many exhausted cops are there? Most, just about, I bet just about every single one of them are exhausted. Do you know how hard it is to check somebody's pulse without feeling your own? He's got a pulse. There's a good chance that they're feeling their own pulse.

That's just a fact. It's hard to find somebody's pulse when your heart rate is, through the roof. Go do something really strenuous. I can't even say that word. Run around the block a hundred times and then grab onto a cucumber and try to pretend to try to find the cucumber's pulse. I bet you feel a pulse of the cucumber. That was a dumb example. But you get my point. It's really hard to find somebody's pulse. So when you, yeah, he's breathing. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's got a pulse, he's got a pulse. There's a good chance that he died right then and there. And he did die. He died. He went into cardiac arrest. They took him to the hospital and they pronounced him dead.

Sad. I know. Did you also see how hard it is to get somebody down on the ground, to take control of them? How many cops were there? I don't know. Six, seven, eight, nine, ten. It's very difficult to get somebody on the ground, especially that big boy. Hard to get him on the ground. Sometimes nearly impossible. It seems nearly impossible. I'm a light guy. I'm a small dude. My wife would say I'm not anymore, but you should have seen me at Depot, R-CMP Depot.

I was strong, but I was light. Like we're talking light, like a feather. Like silly light. And we did a scenario. We did a scenario one day. The scenario was, there's four cops, okay? one would play the bad guy

the other three were the cops those three the good guys those three would try to take the bad guy down I was a bad guy one day three people had to take me down they couldn't take me down I wouldn't let them it's difficult to take somebody down

I thought it was funny you know you know na na na na na na na you can't get me running around squirming. You couldn't get me. You couldn't get me in handcuffs. It is hard to get somebody in handcuffs

who doesn't want to be put in handcuffs. It's easy for a bad guy to resist the rest. It's easy to keep your arms under your body. You can't get, especially that guy who's suited up in armor, right? Costume, gladiator costume. And I forgot to tell you,

but when the police showed up, he had a gladiator costume on, he had a sword and an armor shield, and two wrist armor wrist bands on his wrist. Anyways, my point is, it's tough to get somebody down. So when you see the cops, how many cops does it take? It sometimes takes a lot. They ended up tasing this guy six times, six times. And it reminded me of Robert Dazzansky in Vancouver Airport.

call where there were four members, RC&P members showed up and tasered him five times. I think it was five times. But if you actually watch the video, not all all those five tasers were actually getting at him. So it's kind of uncertain how many times Robert got tased. I would say it's less than five. If two probes are not in you and they're not touching the body, then they're not getting tased. It sounds like he's being tased by the taser, because the tasers going on, but he's not actually getting tased. So you watch this fella, and it's pretty comparable to the airport file in Vancouver. But yet two of those cops went to jail because of that incident.

Even though they did everything right, their training was spot on. That's how they taught members how to taser train back then. Robert was the perfect candidate to be tasered that day. and yet two cops. I think their names Robinson and Millington went to jail. I can't wait to talk about that video one day when I know all the facts.

I know quite a bit, but I can't wait to break that one down. Can you believe it? They went to jail for tasering a guy out of the airport? Sometimes people die guys. Sometimes they die. They get worked up They get in a fight with police. They get worked up and they die.

This guy the whole time was saying he couldn't breathe, even though his shirt was ripped off him. His wife beater. He was even talking after that. So it wasn't, was he going into cardiac arrest then? Possible. I think so. If I had to guess, I would say, yeah.

That's what happened to Dazzansky. He had a heart attack. He stopped breathing. Sometimes they die. It's called, sometimes it's called excited delirium, where no matter what you're going to do, they're going to die. And the whole workup of interacting with police, resisting arrest, they die. I don't know why I'm not a doctor, but it happens.

And two of those members, RCMP members, went to jail. But it's just, it's amazing to me. And not one RCMP member said anything. about it. Not one. And why? Why? Why am I even talking about this? I just, it just reminded me of this. Robert Dazzansky comes to Vancouver, can't find his mummy at the airport, where's my mummy, starts throwing shit around, gets tased, he's all sweaty, excited delirium, he dies, four members' lives destroyed, and destroyed. Nobody did anything for it. them. A judge decides that two need to go to jail and two don't. Bunkers. Okay, thanks for watching

guys. Subscribe to my channel, please. That'd be great. Bye-bye.