Clinton Jaws - They Failed Her, Jennifer Pound

Episode Date: May 5, 2021

Former Cop, @Clinton Jaws , discusses the retirement/departure of Staff Sgt Jennifer Pound. Pound is one of many women who stuck up for RCMP members. By telling her story shows courage and lets other members know there is nothing wrong with having ptsd. It also explains what is wrong with the RCMP. Policing can be a cruel career inside and out. hotline number 604-330-2512 https://www.clintonjaws.com/ https://open.spotify.com/show/3hWntbop6gLEg6RFR0aOzJ https://www.facebook.com/clinton.jaws.7/ https://twitter.com/ClintonJaws #clintonjaws #policepodcast #rcmp

Can we talk about Jennifer Pound for a bit? Jennifer Pound, my memory is she's one of the first women to stand up for other members. That's my memory of her. When she came out and said she has PTSD, it was brave. The women brought notice to everybody of what was going on in the RCMP. And I'm not saying that. I'm just saying it's nice. They need to be recognized for what they did.

Because I don't care when anybody says. It was brave. You want to go out? You want to come out in public and tell people that you got PTSD? She is one of the persons responsible for changes in the RCMP. Have there been changes? Well, we'll get to that. But I'm just thankful for people like Jennifer Pound and Benson.

I think that's, is that her name? I think that's her name. I wrote it down. I don't know. might be Benson. But Shirley Pound... Jennifer Pound, what a name, though, A, J. Pound? Oh, I'm sorry, but...

Wow, what a name. Kind of cool. Jay Pound, she retired the other day. I'm like, holy shit, I thought you already retired. Like, she was sticking it out. And she went to CTV. I mean... And she did a little...

I don't know. CTV. I don't know. CTV, Global CBC. I guess she wanted to be a voice. She wanted her voice to... She used CTV to get her voice out, I'm sure. I got a problem with CTV, guys. I got a problem with all those

Vancouver news outfits. But they interviewed her, and I just want to play a little bit of it. Policing is a part of somebody's soul. Policing is a part of somebody's soul. Don't start laughing. That's true. and only police officers know that and it's impossible to explain because you look like an idiot if you

tried to explain it but it really is part of your soul it's part of there's different human beings in this world i'm sure and when you do policing and you're in policing your soul changes into something that i don't know policing makes a part of you you. Like, I didn't ever feel that way when I worked at Safeway as a cashier or when I cooked fish and chips at Friar Johns or when I worked at Coom's country, whatever it was, and flip burgers. It wasn't part of my soul, but policing was. And every sense of the word, he was a true victim. Okay, so Jennifer Pound, she, only shit.

Okay. She really delve in to stories, bad stories that happened. people. You've seen her on the news, you've seen her explaining things, and that has to take a toll on you, to feel the pain of other people, to listen to their stories and console them. I couldn't imagine. And you can see it in her face, right? He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He has a few messages that he wants to get across. I mean, you can see how genuine this girl is. She feels for the victim. And oh, God, you can't do that.

But you can't help it. You start doing that. You start putting your feet in their shoes. That's going to take a toll on you. I remember stories in the RCMP. I can't get out of my head. Just a story can screw up a police officer. And think about how many stories that she has gone through in her career.

Like we're talking, I don't know, she's around 23, 25 years, staff sergeant. she's been through it. Camera, I can be stoic, and I can be whoever I need to be. I want to rewind on. I can be stoic. A few messages that he wants to get across. On camera, I can be stoic, and I can be whoever I need to be to get that message across.

But at the end of the day, I'm walking in my own door to go home, and my family's not getting the best of me. Yeah, what are they getting of her, right? Could you imagine? She doesn't have time to spend time with her family. got to deal with what she just went through the day. So I don't know her. I don't know her story. I once left a comment on her blog.

She's got a blog going on. And she writes some actually pretty good articles. But I could imagine her going home, probably drinking some beers, being a little angry, not having, not wanting time with her family. I don't want time with my family. I need time alone to figure my shit out. And what do you do, right? Well, she chose her family in the end.

I don't know, I just kind of get it. I'm not making sense. It was just slipping more into an abyss of illness and not being able to get out of bed and hitting just a really, really deep, dark depression. Deep, dark depression. Absolutely. Guaranteed this girl went through a deep,

dark depression what do you do you're you go to work you hate it because you can't take it anymore you go home you hate it you're not work's not good family life's not good she chose her she chose her family life she chose to get better she chose to take some time off and if you guys are that way you take time off you don't go to work tomorrow you don't have to you don't have to go to work tomorrow did you know that

I wasn't offered anything like I was floundering on my own the very first she wasn't offered anything when she went off you imagine that anything like I was floundering on my own the very first call that I received

from the RCMP was from the graduated return to work people to say when are you going to get back to work? Yeah. When are you getting back to work? You know why they do that? Because they can't stand that you're off collecting a paycheck. When you're getting back to work, they don't understand.

And that really is the problem. They don't understand. They don't see it. They don't. It shouldn't be her fault. It should be their fault for not. understanding. Six weeks, usually, to fix a broken bone. Years to fix a broken mind. And they're asking her, when you come back to work. Why don't you ask me in two years? Upsets me when I hear this

shit. The RC&P can be a great organization again. But some of the failures, and no, you're not allowed to fail in this part. I once seen a staff sergeant. There was a guy that was off and the staff sergeant is messaging him, text messaging him, hey man, when you come back to finish your watches assessments, what does this kid do? While he's off, he goes back in the office to finish the fucking assessments. Staff sergeant clueless. Just to a dumb dick and you know who you are. I've seen inspectors. I've seen it. I've seen the message members that are off. The summertime, it's about to be summertime in a couple of months. We could really use you. Not a clue. Not a clue. All they think is, hey, we got to missembody that we

got to fill. And if we can't fill it, then I need to put pressure on health services to get rid of you. I've seen it. It's a fact. It's great. gross. But when you go off like she did, the pressure to get back, like, could you imagine getting that call? When are you coming back to work? We need you back at work. The pressure of making it worse. With real fragile minds, what is somebody going to do with that pressure? Probably not a good thing. Graduated return to work people to say, when are you going to get back to work? Health services within the RCMP are ineffective. They failed me. right out of the gate.

Who don't they fail? What are they even there for? Well, they're there to get you back to work at any cost. They don't give a rat's ass what's wrong. They don't care. They don't care about your mind. They don't care about your life. They're pressured by sergeants, staff sergeants, inspectors, by everybody to do what they have to do to get you back to work or make you retire.

Seeing it. When you describe yourself as a health services unit, there's an expectation from the members that they're going to help you get healthy. The RCMP says it can't comment on specific cases, but says it's, quote, committed to enhancing the health, safety and resiliency of all of our employees. I knew I couldn't go back and feel good about myself and feel good about myself for working for an organization that I knew had forgotten me. As soon as I stepped out the door. And believe me, I've seen it. People step out the door. Forgotten.

The thing to new recruits, guys, don't ever lose your empathy. That's the problem. There's a lot of cops that care. All my buddies cared about me. I cared about them. But there's a lot that don't care. And maybe it's the job. Maybe it's a negativity.

But you end up just not giving a shit. So I don't know what the answer is. I'm just an idiot sitting here. I don't know. I don't know. But you got to... It sucks that you lose your empathy. It sucks that you stop Karen.

And I have seen so many bosses just... They've really lost their minds with empathy and compassion. I don't know when we're getting that. But this reporter here that you see right now, her name's Regan. And she actually, I think she did a great job. Yeah, I'm telling you that CTV, this lady, this girl, and I like her eyebrows, did a good job on interviewing her. I like what she says here.

Just listen to this. And what triggered Pound's PTSD? Was it a particular case? Well, she didn't go into those details to protect the privacy of a lot of the families. but as you heard in that story, it was working with those families that was really the breaking point with her, dealing with a lot of their trauma and darkness that eventually seeped into her own life. And that's how she ended up struggling with the PTSD. Listen to that for a second.

This girl knows what she's talking about, this reporter, struggling with PTSD. A lot of cops, you guys have PTSD. A lot of cops, you don't even know it. And it's okay to have PTSD. it's fine to have PTSD but it's not fine to struggle with PTSD and I like how she termed it that way pound was struggling with PTSD probably a little angry here probably drinking a lot I have no idea I'm just guessing probably crying probably a different person ruining her life ruining her work life ruining her family life.

She wasn't struck. She wasn't coping with PTSD. You have to cope with it. And what do some in the RCMP do? When you come back to work? Come on back to work and kill yourself. Idiots. Maybe people like Pound should be at health services.

You know what I mean? If you really want to change, things that are wrong in policing, take people like Pound. Who knows and understand? it because they don't understand it. A lot of management doesn't understand it. They don't even care to understand it.

Maybe it's not their fault that they don't understand it. Maybe it takes people that have full-blown PTSD to be in charge. I didn't even really understand it when I was younger and I was at work. I wish I probably would have did things differently and, well, I would now. Like, if I seen somebody struggling, I guarantee you. It's not costing me a penny. I would say to them, go home, don't come back until you're right, until you're fixed. I'm going to message you.

I'm going to call you. But it's out of a good heart just to see how you're doing. No pressure. I don't want you coming back. Take as much time as you want. And I'm impressed that pound stuck it out. I assume that she's been off for years. I don't know.

maybe she went back tried i don't know but i'm impressed with that part because usually the rcmp are knocking on your door after a year you got to get the hell out of here we can't afford this your injury is taking too long to heal and we're not going to let it heal for you we're not going to let it heal we don't got time for your injury to heal we got shit to do busy summer coming up we got assessments they're right. Tomorrow we'll speak to a psychologist working with officers about what's changed over the last few years and where members are still falling through the cracks.

Jason? And you know what that brings me on to my next point?