Closing Bell - Closing Bell Overtime: Looking Ahead To Fed Decision; Waystar CEO on AI in Health Care 9/15/25

Episode Date: September 15, 2025

Barbara Doran from BD8 Capital and Drew Pettit from Citigroup analyze market dynamics as Steve Liesman breaks down Wednesday's Fed decision. Former Acting Deputy US Trade Rep Wendy Cutler discusses the latest in trade negotiations. Waystar CEO Matt Hawkins explores AI's transformative impact on health insurance and healthcare payments.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

That bell marks the end of regulation. Union Pacific, ringing the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange, Vision Wave, doing the honors at the NASDAQ, and we have another record day on Wall Street. S&P and NASDAQ both closing at record highs. Most S&P 500 sectors actually closed lower, but communication services and consumer discretionary, the big gainers. Staples and health care bringing up the rear.

Gold with another record to $3,700 an ounce for the very first time. That's a scorecard on Wall Street, but winners stay late. Welcome to closing bell overtime. I'm John Ford. Morgan Brennan is off today, and we've got a very busy news day to kick off this week. All-time highs ahead of the Fed meeting, and we still don't know exactly how many voting members will be there. 10, 11, 12, we'll get you updated on the fates of Stephen Myron and Lisa Cook. But the fate of TikTok seems closer to getting decided.

Treasury Secretary Besson says there is the framework of a deal. We'll break that down along with all the U.S. China trade news. And we'll talk to the CEO of a company trying to bring AI to health care. Matt Hawkins of Wastar coming up later in overtime. But now let's start with the markets because the NASDAQ jumped to another record high thanks to a couple big names you know. Christina Partsenevolous is at the NASDAQ with more. Christina. I'll start with the big one. Tesla shares closing up at over almost 4% higher after CEO Elon Musk disclosed he bought about 2.6 million shares worth roughly $1 billion. That's his first stock purchase

since 2020, and investors clearly liked seeing the CEO put his money where his mouth is. Alphabet just cracked the $3 trillion club jumping today nearly 5%, about 4.5%. After dodging a regulatory bullet, the antitrust ruling avoided the worst-case scenario, which was no forced sale of the Chrome browser, so that's helping momentum. Alphabet now joins Apple, Microsoft, and Nvidia, as the only public company's worth more than $3 trillion. And speaking of Nvidia, shares closed down around what, half, not even. barely, we're not even going to say that flat, despite China accusing the company of violating

anti-monopoly law over its 2020 Melanox deal. The timing, though, is no coincidence. This comes right as U.S.-China trade talks happen in Madrid today. The stock did hold up because NVIDIA isn't making any China revenue from H-20 chips right now, but Beijing is clearly using regulatory pressure as leverage. And China's also targeting other U.S. chip companies, too. Texas instruments did fall almost two and a half percent after Beijing, launched an anti-dumping probe over the weekend into U.S. made analog chips, and so that's why you saw Texas down. John? All right. Christina, thank you. Now let's turn to the bond market as interest rates pull back ahead of the Fed meeting. Rick Santelli, joining me now from Chicago.

Rick. Yes, John, indeed. Interest rates have been on the soft side. As a matter of fact, there wasn't any top-tier economic data this morning. We did have empire regarding manufacturing. But look at how 10-year yields dropped as we came into our time zone. They basically moved from around 408, right down in that 403-404 area, which continues the slide. And if you look at the chart since Thursday, which was a biggie, that's when we had the artificial jump in initial jobless claims to 263,000 erroneous Texas information, but we also had a very warm CPI.

And you can see that we are now a bit higher in yield than we are there, but not much. Which lends one to really ponder is inflation completely off the table in terms of a worry by investors in front of this Fed meeting. And if you look at a month-to-date chart, it's really interesting that 10-year note yields have dropped about twice as fast is 2-year-note yields. If you look at the left side of the chart, we're down about 10 and 2s, we're down about 22-bases point in 10s to curve his 4. Latin, rather dramatically, which leads us to believe that over the next several sessions, should we break 4%? It's going to be very interesting

to see how the Fed comes up with the statement regarding some of the warmer inflation variables we've seen of late. John Fort, back to you. Rick Santelli, for sure. That will be interesting. Now, let's stay with the market and the record closed for the S&P and the NASDAQ.

Joining me now is City Director of U.S. Equity Strategy Drew Pettit and BD8 Capital Partner CEO, Barbara Duran. Guys, welcome. Drew, stocks at all-time highs. We're expecting a rate cut, maybe several. Can the market still run from here after a rate cut, or is this cut a sign that the economy might be worse than the market has digested? It's a little bit of an if, John. So to us, we think the economic data actually holds it, excuse me, holds in. So that's positive for stocks. So in that environment, positive economic data, two-year yields down with the Fed cutting, we actually think the curve steepens. And that actually

is not a bad backdrop for growth to keep working, which can drive the market higher. And it's not bad for some smid cap broadening as well. So to us, yes, but it's all about economic data and if it holds in. So, Barb, how do you position out there with the labor market weakening investors coming up on a quarterly roadmarking pretty soon? Do you rebalance, reposition? in a particular way, given the numbers that you're seeing? Yeah, I think it's a good question because things have changed. But we've started to see the change since Jackson Hole when PALS signaled that they really were looking more at the labor market, which that's when he indicated that interest rate

cut this week, this Wednesday, is likely. And so that's when positioning into more interest rate sensitives. You know, we've talked about that. You stay in the mega cap growth. Those are secular long-term stories that will, I think, continue to outperform, given a lot of their double-digit growth, but the banks, which are making new highs, I think you stay along those, although you have to hear what Powell is going to say. If this is going to be a one-time cut, the market right now, I think, is anticipating three cuts. It's going to make a difference

in terms of the possibility there, because they are at new highs. So I think you continue to small caps, I think, are vulnerable here, separate reasons than interest rate cuts. But I think that's where you have started to position already, but more interest rate sensitives. And that's some consumer discretionary as well. Drew, is it a concern? This is a very bifurcated economy that we're in right now. Things are great for the market if you own stocks. But if you're a new college grad, if you're anybody who's been out of work for a while,

if you're working class paying rent versus, you know, collecting home equity, this picture looks very different for you. How does Q4 and the way it plays out influence way we should think about this economy and the market with that backdrop. So it all comes back to broadening. It's funny. We're talking about how good the markets are. I guess you've made a lot of money if you're in the right stocks

and been in the growth names. Value small cap really haven't participated nearly as much, even though when you look at their valuations, they're not necessarily cheap either. If you get a breakdown in more of the consumer and you don't get a lot more of those value, cyclical and small cap name showing positive earnings, growth, you end up into in a more unhealthy bull market, I would say, something that stays narrow

again. So if the consumer holds in, if the lower end consumer holds in or reverts, the younger consumer does well, then you start to see more positive contributors to earnings growth. It leads to a healthier bull market. Barb, finally, how does the China trade news affect your view, not just of the U.S. economy, but the global economy here? Well, I think China trade news in terms of the president talking very optimistically, I think for investors and for companies, it signals that the worst truly is behind us,

which the market has been assuming that. But there's still be some low, you know, some loose ends out there like China. So it looks like the peak aggregate rates would be 30%. So companies can start to plan. They can judge what their costs are likely to be. And also for the rest of the world, you know, they can also, because everybody's been affected by this. and the alliances that are changing and this kind of thing.

So it gives more clarity, you know, companies, people can plan, a little bit better understanding what the costs can be and how they have to change their cost structure or raise their prices. Drew, I fibbed. I've got a little bit more time. So I want to ask you about the broader global economic picture as well. I mean, I've been talking a little bit before about how China's economy seems to be doing worse than its stock market.

I guess you could say that in some ways about the U.S. too, given the labor stuff that we've been talking about. But how are you feeling about this China TikTok deal that seems to be closer to coming to the finish line? And what that perhaps says about the prospects for cooperation internationally? Yeah, it's funny. Where we're looking when we talk about China macro, global macro, and even trade talks, we look at dollar volatility. And right now, that's broken down. That's very, very low.

So kind of piggybacking on what Barbara was saying here, low rate vol, which we're getting with the Fed cutting, lower dollar vol with a better kind of global trade setup, and lower oil ball, which is basically a symptom of kind of less geopolitical uncertainty. That's all good for buying risk assets, whether you're domestic or international. So to us, as long as those three things stay intact, you're buying risk assets in the U.S. and globally. And that's probably why China Tech's working so well, too, right now. Okay. Drew, Barb, thanks to you both. Well, up next, U.S. and China trade talks taking place in Spain. A framework of a deal reached on TikTok, as we were mentioning. President Trump and Xi expected to talk this week.

We're going to get a view of this story from both sides of the world. Overtime's back in two. Welcome back to Overtime. Treasury Secretary Besson in Spain this week for trade talks with his Chinese counterparts, saying there is the framework of a deal for TikTok to get into the hands of U.S. owners. There's also much more at stake here. Let's get to our Aiman Jabbers for the latest. Amen.

Hey there, John. Yeah, you're right. Officials here have not provided any new details throughout the day of what they're calling a framework of a deal. So we don't know yet who the buyer will be, how much the buyer will pay, or what exactly the assets are that are potentially being sold here. Treasury Secretary Scott Besson said this morning in Spain that more details won't be available. until later this week. I think the framework is for it to switch to U.S. controlled ownership.

But again, I'm not going to get ahead of the leader's call on Friday. We have a framework. They'll have to confirm the deal. Now, a key question here is whether the Chinese side will allow the sale of the actual algorithm that powers TikTok or if the U.S. buyers will be expected to produce their own version of it. All of this seems positioned to clear the decks for the possibility of an in-person meeting between President's Trump and Xi somewhere in Asia sometime this fall, John. And of course, you heard the Treasury Secretary there set up this call that we expect to potentially

happen on Friday between those two same leaders, and we'll see what comes of that. Back over to you. Okay. Amen, thank you. And now let's get the take on these talks from the China side, along with the prospect of that Trump Xi summit in Beijing. Our Eunice Yunn joins us now live at 4 a.m. local time in Beijing. Eunice.

Thanks, John. Well, the Chinese are reporting as well that the two sides have reached an agreement on at least a framework agreement on TikTok. But the readout is quite interesting, especially one line worth flagging. It says regarding TikTok, China will conduct technical export reviews in accordance with laws and regulations. And investors might remember that after the Geneva agreement, the Chinese had said that they had agreed to suspend or cancel non-tariff countermeasures. So this meant lifting the rare earth curbs, but they never left a time frame in that discussion. And so because of that, eventually it led to more conflict between the U.S. and China. For the Chinese in this regard, this is a similar out, which allows China to have more leverage.

Because at the end of the day, TikTok is not a core strategic issue for China. The Chinese want to have the export curbs off. They want to have the tariffs off. In fact, that was another line that we saw in the readout. And then if you remember just in the past couple of hours, the Chinese have ruled that NVIDIA violated the antitrust law. And this comes after over the weekend to other investigations that were targeted at the U.S. sector, all seen as pressure and really ramping up that pressure to get the U.S. to make

good, or not make good, but to ease off on some of these export controls, as well as other issues that are strategic for the Chinese. Eunice, fair to say, based on that readout and the context you just gave, that the sense from the Chinese side is that U.S. politicians want to have TikTok more than China wants to keep it? Oh, yeah, no. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's one of the key, the important views from China. I think what's also interesting when you mentioned politicians is that unlike in the U.S., in China, there is so far no reporting at all that President C and President Trump are going to have a phone call on Friday. So, you know, we know that there potentially could be some sort of meeting in, Later this year, between the two, there have been rumblings that it could be here in Beijing. It could be at APEC in Guangzhou, Korea.

But one of the key issues is that there would need to be some deliverable for that big kind of pomp and circumstance meeting to happen here. Maybe this is this might be enough. And also another thing that I think is interesting is that the Chinese see President Trump coming here potentially as a gift for President Trump. there's still some belief that President Trump wants to be able to have that kind of grandiose visit here in China and that for the Chinese, you know, it's not necessarily as important. Hmm. Okay. Eunice Yunn. Thank you. Now for more on those trade talks, let's bring in Wendy Cutler. She is a senior vice president at the Asia Society Policy Institute. Wendy, whose position has improved or not since April here between the U.S. and China?

It's hard to tell, but we are seeing a different China in these negotiations. It's clearly playing hardball, much tougher positions than it did during the first term of the Trump administration. And again, just this morning, going into the second day of talks, China announces a new, excuse me, announces violations by Navidia of Chinese antitrust regulations. that's a very aggressive move and something I've never seen in trade negotiations, that during the talks, the other country takes measures against the other country. Wendy, if the economy in China is so bad and they've got these deflation issues, how can they afford to play hardball? Well, again, the economy is not that bad.

Clearly, it's facing some challenges and it's being hit by these tariffs, but it also is a lot going for it as well. well. And remember, China thinks in the long term, and it feels that it can outweigh the United States. And in many respects, as willing, it wants to kind of delay all of this and let time play out. It feels that time is on its side, not on the U.S. side, and that the U.S. is much more anxious to get a deal and to get a meeting with Xi Jinping than China's interested. What's going to determine whether China's right in that calculation? Is it the economic data? Well, part of it will be the economic data, but part of it will also be who blinks first

and who in a negotiation feels like it has to give more to get what it wants. And remember, China has a lot of leverage with its dominance in the critical minerals and magnet market. We saw that play out a few months ago, and China is still wielding that lever, over the United States. But aside from the economic data, what would make China need to blink? It would have to feel that it is more to lose than to gain, and it's just not in that realm of thinking. Since the first Trump administration, it has taken a number of steps to make itself less

dependent on the U.S. market, and we saw its August export data with exports climbing to Southeast Asia, Europe, Africa, even as exports decreased to the United States. When you see the meetings that China is taking, both with other folks who are skeptical of the United States, let's just say, and with folks who are traditionally allied with the U.S., what kind of strategic position and trade is this putting China in as the U.S. imposes tariffs, and we wait to see what some of the finer economic and political impacts of those are? Look, China is on a charm offensive all around the world. It's trying to portray itself as the guardian of the international trading order, one that the United States is disrupting.

Now, some of our trading partners are buying into it, but many are not. But all that said, for many of them, China is their largest trading partner, and they're continuing to expand trade and investment ties with China at a time when the United States is pulling back. What's this doing with Brazil? They don't seem to be caving in to what the president wants. And I wonder if the China trade situation is having a behind-the-scenes impact on that. Well, look, Brazil's trade ties with China are strengthening. Brazil now is the largest soybean supplier to China. We used to be number one.

And now our soybean farmers are hurting as Brazilian soybean farmers are benefiting. So I think we're going to see more and more of these ties between China and countries that are being adversely impacted by U.S. tariffs improve as countries all around the world right now are looking to reduce their dependence on the U.S. market, so they don't have to be so hurt and so vulnerable to U.S. tariff threats. Complicated landscape. Wendy Cutler, thank you for helping us understand it. Thank you. Well, shares of Google rallying joining the $3 trillion market cap club today, but the stock is still playing catch-up to one of its Mag 7 rivals. Mike Santoli is going to be here with that story. And a couple of overtime movers to tell you about Oscar Health falling down about 5.5% on a debt offering, $350 million of convertible notes. And Dave and Busters is lower by about 14% after its results.

Earnings fell well short of analyst expectations. small missed on revenue, and that stock taking a hit. Chipotle is higher, though, by just over 2%. After adding $500 million to its share buyback program, Overtime, we'll be right back. Welcome back to Overtime. Tyson Foods, latest company to eliminate certain ingredients, as Health Secretary RFK Jr., targets processed foods. Tyson says it will stop using high-fructose corn syrup by the end of the year.

It will also eliminate sucralose and certain other preservatives and dyes. Tyson says the decision was voluntary as it continues reviewing its products to meet consumer demand. Two of the biggest names in tech are moving, but not in lockstep. A familiar pattern might be playing out again for Google and meta. So let's bring in senior markets commentator Mike Santoli, who's looking at how these mega-cap giants are trading paths. Yes, they're coming back into line. And, you know, a few months ago when Alphabet was really on the outs among investors,

people thought they were going to be disrupted, not the disruptor in AI. You see the divergence that happened with META really outperforming as Alphabet was on the lows. It's actually the reverse of what was going on in 2022, 2023, when META was suspect in terms of its strategy. But it's worth noting when two similar businesses that are treated as somewhat similar and kind of feeding off the same pool of revenue, digital advertising, you know, diverge, it often does mean that they have some convergence. Now, obviously, not a full catch-up move. And Google, the action is starting to seem a little grabby on the upside here.

I mean, people are just piling into this breakout. Nonetheless, it's still not that expensive. Take a look at how those two companies also stack up on a forward PE basis. Again, Google got really cheap, certainly relative to meta, but also relative to the market. Cheapest it's ever been relative to the S&P. Now it's making up that discount, and it trades more or less in line with the S&P now. The first chart, Mike, makes me think of maybe mega-cap paranoia. This sense that, well, somebody's got to be losing already.

Even though we don't know how the AI market's panning out, we've picked some winners, Nvidia's done so well, some others, there have to be losers. That wasn't the case for META initially. Maybe people realizing it's not the case too early to call for Alphabet. It absolutely does seem that. And even if you think that META, based on the desperation of its bidding for AI talent, or maybe some of the false starts it's had in that particular area,

it still feels like it has so much room for error, because of its core business being so profitable, having so much momentum, and it's almost as if they look, they wasted a lot of money, we think, on the metaverse, and it didn't really hurt in the long term. So I agree with you. The market is kind of sensitive to this idea that it's going to be, you know, win or take most or somebody's going to be out in the cold, but, you know, the pie is growing fast enough, at least perception-wise, that it's, you know, managing to everybody winning for a little while anyway.

And maybe there's a caveat emptor. I don't know what trader is in Latin. here for Apple traders as well, right? Because it's still been picked as a loser. I think it's still down year-to-date. Maybe the only Mag 7 name that is, but those iPhone 17 sales, not so bad. That's right.

So maybe it can be fine even without having everybody gaining clarity over what it is in terms of its own AI efforts, yeah. Very interesting to watch, Mike, thanks. See you again in just a bit. And right now it's time for a CNBC News Update with Kate Rogers. Kate. Hi, John.

President Trump just announced on Truth's Social. that the U.S. military conducted a strike against drug traffickers in international waters off the coast of Venezuela. It's the second such strike carried out by U.S. forces in the area recently. The president said the strike killed three male terrorists and that no Americans were harmed. Trading platform Robin Hood today sued the state of Massachusetts to stop an injunction against the Kalshi predictions market company. Robin Hood offers sports trades through the Kalshi platform. On Friday, the state sued Kalshi, alleging that the platform offers sports gambling without a license. The CFTC currently regulates the predictions market, and Kalshi has

repeatedly argued in court that the federal agency supersedes state regulators. And Sphere Entertainment announced today that it has sold more than 500,000 tickets to the Wizard of Oz at the Sphere in Las Vegas, bringing in more than $65 million. That show will run through March of next year. The company stopped. is up more than 30% this month. John, back over to you. Wow, there's no place like Dome. Thanks, Kate. Well, coming up, one of the most uncertain Fed meetings in years, at least in terms of attendance, starts tomorrow. We still don't know how many people are going to show up. Will Stephen Myron and Lisa Cook be allowed to vote the latest as those cases wind through Washington

coming up. Well, welcome back to overtime. Let's recap the action on another historic day for the markets. All the major averages higher. S&P closing out a record first time above 6,600. The NASDAQ also notching intraday and closing records. And as we talked about with Mike Santoli, Google a big reason. Alphabet stock up 18% since that favorable indication of monopoly penalties against it earlier this month. That pushed its market cap above $3 trillion. It joins Nvidia, Microsoft, and Apple in the $3 trillion dollar club. Now, the Mag 7 companies are worth more than $20 trillion combined. Speaking of Mag 7 market caps, Tesla having a big day, adding nearly $45 billion. Why? Because Elon Musk is buying a billion dollars worth of the stock. Investors taking that as a sign

that Musk is still invested financially and mentally with the company. And since Musk owns about 13% of Tesla already, his $1 billion investment helped increase the value of his stake by nearly $6 billion. And while we've had a big rally this year, some big name stocks have not participated. Apple, the only Mag 7 stock in the red in 2025, as Mike and I were just talking about, Eli Lilly on pace for its first losing year since 2016. And look at Nike. On track for its, yeah, there we go, for its fourth straight losing year. It's lost more than half its value since the beginning of 2022. Maybe it'll turn around, see if it can just do it. Well, the Fed kicks off its two-day meeting tomorrow, and we don't even know how many voters will be there yet.

Up next, what that mayhem could mean for the decision on interest rates. And one of the reasons we don't know exactly who will be at the Fed meeting is because the Senate still needs to finalize a vote on Stephen Myron's nomination to fill an open seat on the Board of Governors. Find out when we could have an answer on that vote when overtime returns. Welcome back to overtime. Check out shares of Western Digital, up nearly 5% today, one of the big winners on the S&P, closing at a new high. According to reports, the company's raising the prices of its hard disk drives. Yes, the old school spinning ones citing unprecedented demand from AI. Well, a major question surrounding this week's Fed meeting is whether Council of Economic Advisors Chair Stephen Myron will be confirmed to fill a vacant seat on the board before that meeting begins tomorrow.

Our Emily Wilkins has the latest details. Hey, John, we are here in the Senate. Just about an hour away from when the senators will begin voting on a series that includes moving ahead with Myron's nomination. And at this point, it looks like there is an excellent chance that Myron will be joining the Fed when they meet tomorrow. So we're going to have one vote coming up here in just a little bit. Another one in this evening to confirm him that should give plenty of time. Remember, he's going to need a majority in the Senate. So that's 51 votes.

and that, of course, can include the vice president doing a tiebreaker, but that really might not even be needed. When we saw Myron go through the banking committee last week, we saw every single Republican vote for him. And that was with some concerns being raised by Democrats about the fact that Myron will not be resigning from his position at the White House. Instead, he's going to do an unpaid leave of absence. And he says this is because he is, of course, filling in the last four months of Adriana Coogler's term. And he says if there was any more, he would resign. But he understands that as this is, he can just do a temporary leave of absence. So a concern for Democrats, but it doesn't seem like that's holding up Republicans right now from backing his nomination.

And we fully expect that by the time that the Senate goes home later this evening, that he will be in a position to join the Fed tomorrow and to fill in that vacancy. John? All right. Emily, thank you. But there's more. investors are also unsure whether Fed Governor Lisa Cook will be at that meeting. Our Steve Leasman has the latest on that story. Steve.

Yeah, John, under 17 hours to go before the Fed sits for its two-day meeting. It's unclear how many voters are going to be there, but relative confidence in how the voters will vote. So the administration asking an appeals court to overturn the Cook injunction against her firing by the president. But today, no ruling as of now, and as Dylan saying, the hour is getting late. As you heard from Emily there, the vote of the nomination of CEA Chair, Stephen Meyer, is supposed to happen tonight. So there could be 10, could be 11, could be 12 voters at the meeting we don't know yet. Beyond the personnel issues, the Fed has to deal with economic ones. Inflation running above the 2% target, unemployment, ticking up, and they have to find a compromise between some outspoken hawks and doves on the committee.

Futures market, not very complicated by all this stuff, not concerned. Three cuts baked in, three in a row, September, October and December. So they're not really troubled by it. They have these three cuts priced in this year. Going on to Myron here, if he's approved, there will be considerable speculation about the Myron dot. President Trump has complained that funds rate 300 basis points too high. No Fed official has a future dot anywhere near that. We'll see.

Finally, on Cook, documents obtained by CNBC on Friday, first written about by Reuters show. Cook told her lender for a loan estimate that an Atlanta home was a vacation property. That appeared to undermine the claim by the administration that she intended to commit mortgage fraud by labeling both that and the second home as primary residences. FHFA director Bill Pulte, he originally brought these mortgage fraud charges against Cook. He would not say if he knew about those documents, but he did tweet out that it was the mortgage documents that mattered, not the estimate. So it goes on, John.

Steve Leesman, no Fed watchers keep the view quite like you. So tell me, on this Cook development, we didn't. I saw what you did there, John. I saw what you did. Nice. On this new Cook development, I guess this complicates the administration's argument that this is cut and dried, that Lisa Cook did something wrong, that she was trying to do something in particular. Is that what the general sense is? Yeah, I think that's right.

So the administration wants to keep focus on the mortgage documents. I think the administration's trouble here is, and I'm not a lawyer, but lawyers have said that, first of all, these cases are very rarely broad. Apparently, one such case that's not even that similar has been prosecuted in the last eight years. Another thing from the Wall Street Journal said Cook did not get a preferential mortgage rate, though we don't know what the down payment was. That's two. And three is the intent that you have to prove intent, and that's why these things are not often prosecuted. So if she told the lender in an estimate, it's going to be vacation property.

she subsequently reported it as a vacation property, then maybe it's going to be hard for them to prove or get a conviction on this issue of the box she checked on the mortgage. Again, not a lawyer, I'm not a judge, and certainly not the jury, but that's some of the things that complicates the matter. Administration wants to keep the focus on these mortgage documents. You are a close chronicler of economic officials, though, and I wonder how common is real estate as a line of attack

in Washington and among economists? I mean, we did see it with the Fed building itself when the president was putting pressure on Powell. We see it now with Cook. And, of course, he got Pulte himself from a real estate family involved in these efforts. So over the 23, 24 years I've been covering the Fed, almost all the controversy happens in their investment portfolios. There's almost never anything that has to do with their actions outside, say, in real estate. certainly nothing before they joined the Fed. That's one of Cook's arguments, John, that look, the Senate had a chance to review this stuff. It was all out there to be seen. Either

they saw it or they could have seen it if they wanted to see it. That's one of her arguments right now. It's very rare for this. However, what I am told by my colleagues from the political press corps in Washington, this use of the second home, the mortgage, the residence is a very common tactic in politics. And it really shows you, John, where we've come, that all of a sudden the Fed is this big political football where the governors are being treated like sort of common politicians or even candidates for a job here with this coming up. And I will point out to what Emily said. You know, this idea of the Fed's independence, it only exists if the Senate wants to keep it that way. If they have a problem going to the Myron issue here, with him being on the board

as a member of the board of governors Wally's on leave of absence. That's entirely up to the Senate and specifically Senate Republicans to enforce that independence. If they don't want it, they ain't going to get it. Well, it makes some sense. A lot more voters, ordinary citizens have experience with mortgages and real estate and big money there than big money

in stock. Steve Leesman, thank you. Well, up next, the CEO of Waystar on how AI is changing the healthcare sector, helping providers get paid faster. Later, Mike Santoli's going to look at whether the huge rally in Tesla shares this month is a sign investors are getting a little too giddy about the market. Overtime, we'll be right back.

Welcome back to Overtime. Healthcare has been the worst performing sector over the past 12 months, but healthcare software stock, Waystar, up more than 40%, though down 4% since earnings in late June. Join me now in an exclusive interview is Waystar CEO Matt Hawkins. This company is hosting its True North conference in Nashville this week to spotlight potential new AI solutions in healthcare. software. Matt, welcome. Setting the table here a bit, it's interesting to me. United Health, for example, has been having so much trouble lately in part because of higher utilization

and costs. I guess that's transactions and that hunger for transactions is part of why you've been doing well? Well, we're doing well. Thank you, John. It's great to be with you. I'm here at the Waystar Innovation Lab. We're beginning to welcome a sold-out true North client conference. here in Nashville, and we're showing our clients how to utilize the power of AI to address higher utilization and do it with more efficiency than they've ever done before while helping them get paid accurately, get paid efficiently, and get paid fully. So this is a very exciting time for us at Waystar, as we have this sense of momentum. So told me about that higher utilization, though.

I'm trying to understand for the whole sector, how that's playing out differently for different players. I mean, I guess if you're a hospital, you want to be able to move things through quickly, get paid more quickly, more efficiently. But how is AI going to help with that? Well, it's a fact that patient visits have increased, which is a major factor in utilization, patient visits have increased an average of 1 to 2 percent a year for the last 40 years or so. It just so happens to be the case that in the last two years, utilization has been higher than that. It's been about a 4% increase. And so hospitals are having to do more with the same resources or less.

AI is perfect in that case where we can help automate low complexity, high volume tasks. We can help return more time to providers and give them more accuracy and efficiency as they work to address patient visits and then account for those as they interact with payers and then also with patients to get paid. And then that is a potentially bigger than literal patient physical visits. How does telehealth, which had a bit of a spike and is now perhaps normalized, and things like hinge health, outpatient care that's still getting billed, though, how does that affect what you're seeing at Waysar? You're exactly right, John. It absolutely includes more than just physical patient visits. It does include telehealth interactions as well as other virtual-type Zoom interactions like the one we're having today. A provider can be very effective in interacting with a patient.

Our software helps accurately account for that, helps the provider understand who the patient is financially, and then we help assemble automatically using AI and create a very accurate, perfect, undeniable claim that can then be rapidly submitted on our platform. We are creating incredible results for the clients that we work with and real ROI. in a situation where we're moving from AI hype and smoke, so to speak, to ROI-based reality as we help these providers interact with patients. So, Matt, can your customers use this AI technology to explain to patients what they're paying for? Yes. In fact, we are able, given that we process over 6 billion insurance transactions annually

that constitute more than $1.8 trillion of insurance gross claim charges, we take a all of that information and algorithmically can help patients understand often pre-care what their financial responsibility will be. That's a very consumer-friendly, far more transparency than the patient has had historically. And we're enabling providers to use Waste our software platform that's powered with AI to interact with a patient, help them understand their financial responsibility before they receive care in many cases. And then they can plan for, their care. They can put a card on file and an integrated, elegant experience, then they can plan for an account for their care. We're helping to reduce. I'm sorry.

Does the patient, regulatorily, have enough access to enough data to be able to do that without the provider's kind of permission? Understand the charges? Well, in some cases, yes. There is a mandate for providers to publish their, their prices for certain health care services. That being said, each health plan is a little different, and Waystar is here to help bring simplicity and a common understanding to providers and create price transparency for patients as well. So we are really advocating for providers and patients, again, using powerful AI that is first-to-market that is creating a real ROI for the providers that we work with. All right. Healthcare, something we all need. Matt Hawkins, thank you.

Thank you. Well, Tesla is staging a big rally this month, surpassing Berkshire Hathaway's market cap. Up next, Mike Santoli looks at what that Tesla comeback could mean for the market. And don't forget, you can catch us on the go by following the closing bell overtime podcast on your favorite podcast app. We'll be right back. Welcome back to overtime. Let's get you set up with tomorrow's trade today. No earnings on the calendar, but we get data on retail sales, home builder sentiment, industrial production, and import price.

and check out shares of WebTune. Boing up more than 70% here in overtime. The company expanding its deal with Disney to develop a new comics platform for Disney brands like Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, et cetera. Disney also expected to invest in the company buying a 2% stake. You can see there's another big jump in this chart.

That was mid-August, about a month ago, when Webtoon first announced a content deal with Disney. The stop was $9 on August 12th before that news on this move if it holds 26 here in overtime. Now, a familiar market milestone just resurfaced, and it might say more about sentiment than fundamentals. Question now, how long can it last, right? Yeah, John, so Tesla and Berkshire Hathaway have crossed again in total market value, with Tesla moving to the upside. As recently as eight trading days ago, they were exactly the same market cap, about $1.09 trillion. Tesla's added about $200 billion to that, a little more than that, since then.

See, it's happened a few times before, and it's basically a barometer of how much the market wants the prospect of an upside future, kind of what might go right down the road. That would be Tesla relative to Berkshire Hathaway, which is like the accumulated wisdom of decades and the stability of today's very diversified business. So I don't know that you're saying it's right or wrong, but it does reveal something about the character of the market. at the moment. And the debate to me is whether this market is rationally exuberant or edging toward perhaps irrationally. So I tend to think it's somewhat rational at this point simply because

if you look at all the inputs in terms of where the economy is positioned, the strength of corporate balance sheets, credit markets, what the Fed's going to do. And then just the kind of, hey, you never know aspect of where AI takes you, I think it makes some sense that this is the way we're going to trade for now. A lot of rules being sort of suspended in terms of how we should be thinking about what's possible among companies. Mike, could there be another factor, especially affecting these charts right now, which is that each of these companies is very much associated with one man? And it might be moving on the question of how long is that one man going to continue to be associated with this company? It's very, very relevant. Now, when it comes to Warren Buffett,

who has said, he's stepping back at the end of this year as CEO. The stock has traded off of that, but I would say coming off of an absolutely elevated perch. And yeah, now we have reassurance or investors in Tesla have reassurance that Elon Musk is going to be there for an indefinite period. So it is a way of thinking about it that way. I'm not sure either one's make or break for the company, but for now, for the stocks, they definitely inform what's going on. Quite a run for billionaires, multi-billionaires. In many ways. Yeah, in many ways.

And they're all children in a way of Warren Buffett. Micah, quite a way. They're all downstream of what he did. For sure. Big way to start the week. That's going to do it for overtime.