Closing Bell - Closing Bell Overtime: Michael Dell on AI Demand, Energy & TikTok; Jim Cramer on NVIDIA 10/7/25

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Wealth strategist Nicole Webb (Wealth Advancement Group) joins to assess investor sentiment as the government shutdown enters its seventh day. Jim Cramer stops by the NYSE to talk NVIDIA and his new book. Plus, a First on CNBC interview with Michael Dell after his company raised its annual targets. Dell talks AI demand, its energy consumption and more. BlackRock’s Jeff Rosenberg shares his Q4 outlook for fixed income. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

That bell marks the end of regulation. I'm John Ford at the New York Stock Exchange. Service Academy women are going to closing bell here at the New York Stock Exchange. Thorntonberg Investment Management doing the honors at the NASDAQ. And I'm Morgan Brennan at CNBC headquarters. Well, stocks lower across the board today. But closing in the middle of today's range, the S&P 500 and the NASDAQ did start the day higher. They hit record intraday highs earlier in the session.

The froth and momentum trades we've been tracking lately, those reversing today as well. safer sectors such as staples and utilities where the S&P leaders today, while consumer discretionary and technology closed lower. Bitcoin also falling today, but not before making a new all-time high above 126,000, ether down nearly 5%. But nothing can stop gold. Another record crossing above $4,000 an ounce. That is the scorecard on Wall Street. Coming up right here on overtime, Invidia CEO, Jensen Wong, speaking to Kramer's Investment Club today, Jim will join us with his takeaways from the conversation with Jensen Wong and some people he helped turn into millionaires. And we'll hear from Dell CEO and founder Michael Dell.

That stock hitting an all-time high today as the company raises its growth forecast, thanks to what else AI demand. But let's begin at the NASDAQ where the namesake index is giving back some gains today. Yesterday's AI optimism being tempered a little bit. Our Christina Parks and Nevelas has the story. Christina. Exactly, John. Tech weakness, really the big story today after Monday's boost, like you said, from the AMD and opening I deal. The AI theme came under scrutiny. There was a few articles highlighting bubble concerns, people in our network talking about it,

and then a late morning report from the information that flagged financial concerns at Oracle in renting out Nvidia chips. The software giant, that would be Oracle, fell about 2.5% after the report said its margins on cloud business are weaker than analysts estimate and that it's losing money on some individual. the video chip deals. Oracle declined to comment, but investors became a little worried about cloud providers like Corweeb and Nebias facing similar risk. That's why you're seeing their shares close at least 3.5% lower today. The semiconductor ETF closed about one and a half, almost 2% lower today, but primarily driven by weakness in chip equipment names like ASML down 4%, lamb down almost 6%. But chip name AMD added to Monday's big gains from the opening I deal closing

three or two percent. We're showing IBM right now. We should be showing AMD, closing at least three percent higher. AI though, across the board still driving other stocks. Now the time for IBM hitting a new intraday record, closing about one and a half percent higher after announcing a partnership with Anthropic. And then last but not least, Figma, extending Monday's rally after the design software vendor's technology was showcased by OpenAI's CEO Sam Altman in an onstage demo. The fact that OAI, OpenAI, is pushing deeper. into software, did send a few other names lower like HubSpot, DocuSign, and Atlassian. Morgan? All right. Christine Apartson, Avelas, thank you. Now let's get to the bond market.

As yields are pulling back today, investors looking ahead to Fed Speak this week. There's a lot of it. Rick Santalli is joining us now from Chicago with more. Hi, Rick. Hi, Morgan. Indeed. We had a big U-turn in the Treasury complex today. Look at a two day of tens. It was on its way to 420. It was trading at some of the highest intraday yields since the 25th of September. Then, well, then they dropped. And they dropped rather precipitously. Nothing huge, but they melted pretty much the rest of the session. So we had a higher high than yesterday's yields and a lower low than yesterday's yields, and that's across the entire treasury curve. There's another long maturity we should pay very close attention to 30-year

bond. Why? Because of the technicals. 30-year bonds closed last year at a yield of 4-7. Look at this chart over the last couple of weeks. Look at the top part of the chart. 477 has been a real stopper. If we cross over and close above that, that would be technically significant. So pay attention to this chart. And by the way, on Thursday, we'll be auctioning off $22 billion of those 30-year bonds. We had a three-year note auctioned today.

It went very well. Dollar index, having a stellar day. Look at this a month to date. It's still making highs as I speak. And when was the last time it closed at these levels? Pretty much two months ago is the next chart shows. Morgan, back to you. Rick Santelli, thank you.

Well, let's begin with the market and the S&P 500 snapping a seven-day win streak. All four major averages are lower on the day. Let's bring in our first guest. Wealth enhancement group, senior vice president, Nicole Webb. Nicole, it's great to have you on. And let's start there because this really has been, at least for stocks, something of a middling market. What's the next catalyst?

I think we might be having some technical difficulties right now. We will get back to Nicole as soon as we sort that out. John, you're at the Stock Exchange. He spoke to Michael Dell. That was another big mover today. What should we be expecting from that conversation later in the show? Well, of course, a lot about AI, but also we'll bring some perspectives, some of which you'll see on tape and some of which you and I can talk about.

on just how this move that we've seen in the markets and in technology lines up with some other moves that he's lived through. You know, by my count, only he and Larry Ellison were leading through the PC and the dot-com booms and are still at the helm of their companies. Larry Ellison, not technically as CEO, but still very much present in guiding strategy. And so that gives some interesting perspective at a time when Morgan, you and I are constantly talking to folks about whether we are seeing some sort of a bubble here. here, are we at a top, or is there reason to think that things can continue? And then, you know, besides the whole technology issue, we're going to talk this hour about gold. I mean, the move in that has just been phenomenal. I've seen some analysts out there saying that a weaker dollar has helped the price of gold because so often gold is priced in dollars.

Yeah, a weaker dollar and weaker rates as well. Nicole Webb, I think we've figured those technical difficulties. Nicole, I'm going to bring you back into this conversation. And maybe we'll start right there because I asked you what the next key catalyst was for this market. But we know tech has continued to dominate here. So what's your takeaway? Yeah. The thing that I wanted to get across earlier was just this. We believe that the base are going to kick off this earning season in just a couple of, well, not even two weeks now, really strong. And we think we're going to get really great reports out of earning season. And we do think that that is the next catalyst higher.

When it comes to gold, though, this theme is really important, especially sitting on the wealth management side, which we do. Gold's move isn't speculative. I think it's really reflective of the backdrop for investors. We've had five years of extraordinary income and asset growth. And I think investors are looking for stores of value. So as you anticipate lower treasury yields, especially on the front end of the curb,

with a backdrop of currency uncertainty, and certainly looking at the global banks looking to gold and lessening of the U.S. dollar exposure. All of this is driving that demand for retention or stored value, which I think is part of that flight to gold. The really interesting thing, Morgan, to bring your two themes together, is that we're not seeing overly defensive equity positioning.

And so we've seen some volatility in tech, we don't think that that continues. Does gold continue to have legs here, though, especially when Goldman Sachs has basically, they upped its guidance, its price target for gold? We actually do think it continues. We think with the amount of money in cash, because again, you're not seeing this fade out of equities into cold.

You're not seeing an overflight to safety here. What we believe you're finding is people are looking for an alternative to traditional asset classes, and they're looking for stores of value. So the wealth that's been created over such a short period of time, where else can I stick it? And right now, they're choosing gold over other proxies like land. But, Nicole, finally, if you're an investor who's trying to do the right thing, you've been pretty much fully invested, you've ridden the market up to some pretty strong gains, and you want to diversify.

How do you do that when it's not as if you can necessarily feel comfortable moving from equities to gold or even necessarily from equities to bonds in the way that you used to because they're not moving in the same sequence that they have traditionally? Yeah, I think with the wealth that's been created against a backdrop of really powerful concentration, this is where you're starting to hear diversification away from public equities and public debt markets into the private markets. And so you're looking for portfolio diversification away from the supply and demand concentration you find in public markets.

And so you're finding diversification nearly in the ways in which more. marks are managed and how business is managed boots on the ground versus the quarterly earnings and guidance that's delivered by public markets. And so diversification isn't necessarily finding an asset class outside of traditional business risk, interest rate risk, but instead diversifying how you're investing and how you're placing cash into various parts of the market cycle using illiquid investment vehicles like private equity, private debt, private credit. And of course, we have this conversation as an individual.

investors have more and more access to private markets. Nicole Webb, great to kick off the hour with you. Thank you for joining us with all the major averages finishing down fractionally today. We've got some news on changes to credit scores. More news, I should say. Diana Oleg has the details. Hi, Dai. That's right, Maureen. It's on pricing. This is just in from Credit Bureau Equifax. It's clearly in response to news last week from FICO that it would be offering its scores directly to lenders at 495 and bypassing the credit bureaus. So Equifax is now saying the company is responding to FICO's monopoly, like doubling of their mortgage credit score prices to $10 in 2026 by offering Vantage score 4.0 mortgage credit scores at an

over 50% reduction from FICO, 2026 prices, or $4.50 through the end of 2027. Equifax will also offer free Vantage score 4.0 credit scores to all Equifax customers in mortgage, automotive, card, and consumer finance who purchase FICO scores for the remainder of 2025 and through 2026, and the stocks of FICO are now down a little bit, and Equifax unchanged. Back to you. All right, Diana Oleg, thank you. Now, coming up, we're talking to longtime Invidia Bowl, our own Jim Kramer. Today at Kramer's Investment Club meeting, NVIDIA's CEO and founder Jensen Wong, got to meet with investors. He helped turn into millionaires. Jim's going to fill us in on how that went when overtime's back in two.

Continental Exchange are rising today. The company, which is the parent company of New York Stock Exchange and other trading exchanges, investing $2 billion into Polly Market, valuing that startup at $8 billion. That's hitting shares of Draft Kings and Flutter, which you can see right, well, you can't see right there, but that is the parent of Fandul. There you go. Draft Kings down almost 6%, flutter down almost 4%. That's on concerns that predictions markets could eat into their market share, something we've been talking about really since last week, John, as that market continues to blend or the possibility, especially the grayness around regulation, continues to blend. All right. Well, Morgan, time for a little history lesson. September 30th, 2009.

That is the date when Jim Kramer first recommended Nvidia on Mad Money in 2010, the year I started at this network. CEO Jensen Huang had its first interview on that show. And June 20th, 2017. That is when Jim Kramer was all in on NVIDIA stock, even naming his dog, NVIDIA. Invidia stock now up more than 4,600% since then. So if you had invested a little more than $20,000 that day, you'd have a million dollars from just that now. Invidia has mented many millionaires over those years, and some of them were present at Jim's

investing club meeting with Jensen Wong earlier today. Joining us now is Mad Money host Jim Kramer. He's also got a new book out. I'm going to hold it up right next to my face here called How to Make Money in Any Market. I like I have the A's, the green, and the red pointing up, pointing down. Jim, great to have you here on overtime. So tell us, what did Jensen coming to your club meeting? He wanted to meet people who had done well.

And he wanted, let me just give you, I'll work backwards. We're all done. I say, I know he's got a million things to go. He says, no, we want pictures. And so we were going to do a giant group picture. He said, no, that's not enough. I want individual pictures. I want pictures row after row.

So we did that. He is different. You know he's different. You did that fantastic interview when he got the big deal. Of course, then it's subsequently not an AMD deal we can talk about. But he's a gracious, terrific person. And he just wanted to thank people for owning it and not trading it. You've also said that about Apple, but you don't give advice based on how nice the CEO is.

No, that's true. And you talk about that in the book. how, you know, you don't get attached to management. You react to what the stock is actually telling you. Right. What was special about NVIDIA? What's your advice on how to identify some of these breakout names that are going to be covering for some of the mistakes that every investor?

Well, a lot of times what you want to do is you want to gauge the perception versus the misperception. For instance, I thought that NVIDIA was a gaming chip company. And then I went to the Aldi Showroom, this now 12 years ago. And I saw these technological marvels, and I started badgering the guy who ran North America out. I said, well, whose technology is? Oh, it's just technology. I said, no, whose is it? And he said, it's in video. I said, no, that's in video. You know, there must be, I'm sorry. That's a gaming chip company. He goes, actually, no, you should be correct. You've got to be corrected here.

It is a company that has tremendous chips that are also in gaming. And that got me thinking, now, wait a second. here's a company that I regard as being one of a technological Marvel auto company and they are endorsing a company I'm wrong and when you start thinking he said you're wrong Jim you're wrong dig deeper dig deeper dig deeper and finally

we get to the mecca we get to his place and we see the things that Jensen's working on and they're insane I mean he takes me my first trip he says here's this I'm training dogs to metal mechanical dogs robots to pick

up Jello cubes and I said well why He goes, because when one gets it all the way up, you have to give them a reward. And I'm thinking, well, that doesn't really answer the question, Jen. He goes, oh, no, it does. Think about it. That's him. I mean, it's very Socratic. He's a Socratic teacher.

And you started realizing maybe I'm just in the presence of someone very different who's got a view 20 years ahead. And he would tell you we spoke about that. The idea, it's easier to view 20 years ahead than it is to have two quarters ahead. Jim, it's Morgan. First of all, congratulations on the amazing investor club meeting today. Oh, thank you, Morgan. And on the book as well, and just given this idea of how to make money in any market, given the fact that AI is dominating the market right now,

I wonder how you would categorize this market, especially as we've had a lot of folks on our air who have been debating whether we're inflating another bubble or not. Well, look, I think that you have to have trust in the actual stock market. Now, you list these people that say it's a bubble, but you want to be in. So don't buy all at once. I mean, the people who bought aggressively at 940 this morning are now your enemy. They're trying to figure out what they did wrong. They want to get out before the next billionaire comes on air and says it's a bubble.

They are just really bad holders. And that's just going to dominate some of these stocks for a couple of days because of what happened today. But, you know, Morgan, I always look at it and I say, do you believe in the company? If you don't believe in the company, you just believed in the trajectory of the stock, then you're going to go. You're going to get blown out. Better to be blown out now than be blown out later. But if you actually believed, if you actually read up about, say, what Jensen's doing

and realize that, you know, it's a $4 trillion company that no one thought it could ever be a trillion dollar company. Well, then it should take solace in the fact that it did get there and it can go higher. So what I would tell people is, do you know what you own? Because if you don't know what you own, you just think you owned a hot nuclear stock. It made cool for a couple of days and it'll shake you out.

And that's what you need to be worried about, is how badly you're going to take a hit because you didn't know what you bought in the first place. AMD, he did that great interview with Lisa Sue and Greg Brockman from Open AI yesterday. Is this another name that needs to be on investors' radars as we continue to see more potential winners or dealmaking, I guess, I should say, for the future?

Well, look, I think AMD stock, it had a big burst up, deservedly so, because it was really an amazing deal, and it took a lot of people by surprise. And the more I think about it, the more amazing Lisa is because she was just so, she just stuck with it. You know, I mean, it was so easy to be able to say,

you know, maybe I ought to pivot and do something else, not go get Jensen. She doesn't have the software stack that he has, and there are many things about her, things that it's a little more bare bones, but it's fast. But I would say, look, if you owned AMD, understand you just bought it on a huge spike. So you may have to accept the fact that it could work its way down a little bit before it bottoms again. But I do believe that it's a different company now that it had that tremendous contract. I'm not as concerned about the ability of that contract to be paid after speaking to Lisa yesterday. She seems

She has a lot of conviction. And I have, the times I've doubted Lisa Morgan, I have, you know, I've been 100% wrong when I've doubted her ever since the stock was in five. I should have been on board a couple times. I questioned it. One time I sold it for the trust way too early. I didn't have the faith that I should have.

I believe in what Lisa Sue's building, and she's been building an amazing company. And I think it can go higher, but it may have to mark time because it had such a big move yesterday. Finally, Jim, do your best Christopher Lloyd impression for me. Back to the Future, you know, in the spirit of this book, how to make money in any market. Some people feel like we're at market highs now,

comparing it to the late 90s. I'm not even sure what an investor should have done in the late 90s. Okay, well, I'm just there. Which you should never try to do, never try to sell everything and know when to get back here. Well, I don't like to talk about that v because you sound like a bracket. I was up 36% in 2000 because I was all short. You see, I had started the street.com,

and I had seen that stock go from 63 to 2. And I realized it didn't matter. If it would come public during that period, it went down. But I would point out that the companies that really were bad were liars. The CEOs were liars. I use that term. I know exactly what that implies, because that implies Justice Department. But these people who are making these companies, you have to remember who these people are.

These are really smart people who have done a lot of great things that tended to have really good balance sheets. The only one doesn't have the balance sheet right now is Larry Ellison and Oracle. But I've doubted Larry Ellison a couple of times. I wish I'd never had because I wish that he would take my phone call because he's so brilliant. I'm not going to doubt these people. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. And the billionaires who come on, they at one time gave people a benefit of the doubt, too, or they wouldn't be billionaires.

Indeed, well, the book is How to Make Money in Any Market. Jim Kramer, our very own. Thanks for hanging out with us here on overtime, Jim. Well, coming up, the latest on the government shutdown for a weekend. We're going to tell you what President Trump said. about paying federal workers back pay once the shutdown is resolved. And we've already touched on it, but we're going to dive deeper. Gold. It has continued its record run as the shutdown has dragged on another big name saying you need more gold in your portfolio. That's next on

overtime. Welcome back to overtime. Gold hitting yet another all-time high today. It's the 43rd record high of the year. It's trading above 4,000 for the first time ever. Gold is now up more than 50% this year. By far, the best year it's had in at least 40 years. And that's after a really strong 2024, too. It was up 27% last year. The latest leg higher coming after the Fed rate cut and continuing amid the government shutdown. Today, Bridgewater founder Ray Dalio said investors should have roughly 15% of their portfolios in gold. And that's after Goldman Sachs also raised its price target for gold to 4,900. Yeah, winning in 4K literally now. Now it's got the latest from the White House, President Trump, addressing the issue of whether federal workers

are going to be paid back pay when the government shutdown ends. Our Amen Jabbers has details. Amen? Yeah, hey there, John. There is a lot of uncertainty right now among federal workers who have been furloughed during the course of this government shutdown. Will they receive their back pay or not? The White House has been suggesting they may not get paid at all as a way of gaining leverage over Capitol Hill Democrats who tend to be more sympathetic to government employees, but it's not totally clear what's going to happen. Here's what the law says. The government employee Fair Treatment Act of 2019 says each employee of the United States government or of a district of Columbia public employer furloughed as a result of a covered lapse in appropriations

shall be paid for the period of the lapse in appropriations. And asked about that in the Oval Office today, the president had this to say. Just a follow up there. I mean, the law says that when the government is reopened, that workers will receive their backpays. Are you going to defy the law there? I follow the law, and what the law says is correct, and I follow the law. So that seems fairly definitive, but I can tell you that there are folks here in the White House who believe that there is some ambiguity in the law, and it doesn't necessarily guarantee back pay for everybody. All of that still up in the air now on day seven of this shutdown, guys.

Back over to you. Amen, very quickly. I was reading that lawmakers, U.S. Congress, men and women. and actually still get paid during government shutdowns. Is that true? That's usually the case, yeah. Okay. And sometimes they forego it, sometimes they don't,

depending on, you know, what Congress does in any given year. So that's one thing that really, really upsets federal workers when they're taking a pay cut. Yeah. All right, Iman Javers. Thank you. Time now for a CNBC News update with Bertha Coombs. Bertha.

Morgan, the Trump administration is considering cutting another $12 billion in clean energy funding earmarked for auto manufacturing and carbon capture. Reuters reporting the targeted projects include $1.1 billion in retooling grants to Stalantis and General Motors. The truck driver who was injured in an attack over the weekend that prosecutors say was started by former NFL quarterback Mark Sanchez has sued the former player and his employer Fox. The lawsuit alleges Sanchez started the fight that led to the truck drivers, quote, severe permanent disfigurement. Sanchez is facing charges of felon. any battery over the fight, which prosecutors said was over parking. And 30 paintings created by artist Bob Ross will go up for auction to help support small and rural public television stations

in the wake of the federal funding cuts. Bonhams in Los Angeles will begin auctioning off three of the beloved painter's works next month. The president of Bob Ross, Inc. said the auction will make sure his legacy will quote, support the very meat. that brought his joy and creativity into American homes for decades. John? Bertha, thank you. Well, shares of Dell are higher today by about 3.5% after it raised guidance thanks to strong AI demand. And coming up, we're going to talk to Michael Dell about the delicate AI ecosystem and getting everybody what they need, when they need it, and the energy to power it all.

And overtime comes right back. Welcome back to overtime. Dell closing at a 52-week high today and a market cap now topping $100 billion. Earlier this afternoon, I spoke with Dell CEO, chairman and founder Michael Dell in a first on CNBC interview after his investor day. The company raising its long-term growth projections and we got into Dell's AI business, energy needs across the industry and the future of TikTok a little. Michael Dell, founder, CEO, chairman of Dell Technologies, always good to talk to you, Michael. Great to be with you again, John. So you got a big investor day today. I want to talk about the numbers, but before that, you got to go big picture with you.

I'm not going to ask if we're in a stock market bubble, but are we in a state of overheated data center buildout that could be getting ahead of itself? The things that we watch out for are signs that, for example, customers are buying things that they don't actually have an immediate need for, and we don't see that at all. In fact, we see kind of the opposite. And I think what's underlying this is the enormous growth in demand for tokens. And so our customers are immediately deploying whatever infrastructure they get. The limiting factor for many of them seems to be, can they get the power into the buildings to supply the energy required. When you're talking about tokens, you're talking about just that base ability to get work done with AI.

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the way this works is you've got these large language models and now multimodal systems and agents and multi-agent systems. And as you advance from the single-shot, you know, LLM to these more agent and multi-agent systems, the number of tokens just explodes. And so the demand for computing power is tremendous, obviously storage, data storage, and networking as well. And so, yeah, I mean, our server networking business last year grew at 58%. Last quarter grew at 69%. And, you know, I'm sure at some point there'll be too many of these things built,

but we don't see any signs of that. And look, there have been periods in the past where there's like a digestion cycle. But based on the demand signal we see and what we're hearing from customers, we're watching, carefully understand what's going on, it seems like the demand is very solid. So let's talk about that specifically. I believe you boosted your annual revenue target by four percentage points at the low end, five at the high end.

What should investors read into that and what it signals about your expectations on the durability of demand? Sure. You know, we have greater confidence in the long-term revenue growth prospects for both our ISG business, which is the AI servers, traditional servers, storage, and networking, and all the infrastructure that goes around that, and also PCs with the replacement cycle, the AI PCs, and we also essentially doubled our EPS target to 15% plus a year. We've achieved that 15% a year over the last five years, which is well above our target. So we're raising the EPS target, raising the revenue growth targets. And we also extended the duration of our commitment to grow our dividend

by at least 10% a year through FY30. And look, in the last five years, we have returned 97% of adjusted free cash flow or $14.5 billion to our shareholders in the form of share repurchase and dividends. And we're committed to returning at least 80%. And so, yeah, we have a great business. It continues to grow. We think the earnings per share durability of the business is quite solid. On the underlying technology, you've talked a lot lately about Dell AI factory, just being able to deliver that full productivity experience in AI to data center customers. How much do you think you can differentiate on energy consumption through stuff like liquid cooling, which you've also talked about, how much room is there to overcome that energy

bottleneck? There's a ton of work that goes into optimizing these systems, and increasingly we're designing the coal plates and the cooling distribution units and, you know, enclose rear door heat exchangers that dramatically reduce the overall energy consumption. And this is important because the running cost over time is heavily impacted by energy. And there's not enough of it in the world. And that's a constraint. So, you know, put all that together.

And again, with AI, we have really three sources of demand. We have the tier two CSPs, all the neoc clouds. We have sovereign AI, and then we, of course, have enterprise and commercial AI, which is our traditional customer base. And they're just at the beginning of the S-curve adoption of this technology, and we think that's going to grow substantially over the next several years. How much of a gating factor is energy, whether it's at the grid level or just the raw availability of gigawatts to power these things? We've got these announcements from Sam Altman, mostly Sam Altman, the opening. AI about, you know, tens of gigawatts practically that they want to build, but they'll openly admit, we don't know exactly where the power is going to come from.

It's the clear constraint that we hear about from our customers, including Open AI. And many customers, in fact, will tell us, well, don't deliver it until this day because we won't have the power in the building, you know, to support it. And so if I look at the amount energy that is expected to be required is obviously a ton of investments going into power generation across all sorts of different modalities. You talk about that on this show all the time, and there's a lot needed. And I think that's certainly one of the biggest rates. What we can do is engineer these systems so they just use as little power as possible.

At the end of day, if you're going to generate tens of trillions of tokens and you're going to create intelligence and drive the economy forward, you're going to need computing power and energy. Larry Ellison, the two of you are both mentioned as TikTok investors for the U.S. spinoff of that. And maybe that's one of the things that's a consumer experience that's AI-driven, that's hugely popular that people really do attach to right now. How do you see the importance of that TikTok restructuring and what an app like that potentially does for the whole ecosystem? I heard the president's comments on that, and I don't have any other comment other than to acknowledge what he said. Well, just on TikTok itself then, and not your personal involvement, how do you view whether it's through photo filters or the AI-driven algorithm that influences how people experience that, how that influence that, the culture around people's understanding of AI? It raises a lot of interesting questions.

At Dell Technologies, what we're focused on is more of the foundational layers of providing the computing power and the networking and the storage that allow these systems to run. And look, I think there's going to be an incredible variety of uses for these models. some of them will be great, some of them might not be so great, right?

It's not really what we do at Dell Technologies, right? We sort of provide the picks and shovels, if you will, to allow all this infrastructure to run. And look, I think going back to what I was saying earlier, this is just bringing all this data to life. You know, in the next couple of years, we'll create more data than has ever existed in the world, right? in the world and that data would be brought to life a lot of data previously was just there

it was just stored and protected nobody ever knew what to do with it or had any tools to do with it now we've got tools that are bringing all this to life michael i appreciate it thanks for taking the time some big projections and numbers and morgan folks can follow me on lincoln for the full fort knox stream of that interview about twice as long as we showed just there. We talked a lot more about the PC business, comparisons of this market to the dot-com boom. He said demand is moving faster now. We're doing like in a quarter the sort of trajectory and velocity, what was a year back then. Yeah, super fascinating conversation. And certainly he has seen so many of these market cycles. So he has such key insights that we don't get from a lot of

other people right now necessarily. I don't think we can overstate the impact of the impact of the energy bottleneck as everybody is talking about it and the focus in this AI infrastructure rollout, the geopolitical implications. It seems like every person I speak to across every part of the administration in Washington, too, is focused on this. So it's interesting to hear him talk about that as well. Here's a little tease. It's not about the data center part of it, but Michael Dell's son is actually working on this

as an entrepreneur who's got a business. He's going to be on Squawk Box talking about it, I believe, tomorrow. So watch out for that. All right. Great stuff. Well, a devastating fire at an aluminum plant is hitting shares of Ford hard could impact its business for months. We've got those details straight ahead. Plus, Jobi Aviation falling here in overtime as it files to sell $500 million worth of common stock.

Those shares are down 10% right now after being lower in the session. Overtime, we'll be right back. Welcome back to overtime. Shares of Ford are getting hit hard over concerns that a serious aluminum plant fire could disrupt its business for months. Phila Bo has the details. Hi, Phil. Hi, Morgan. We know what's interesting about this story is that the F-series is the primary vehicle that people are focused on because of the aluminum panels that are used in the F-series. Much of that aluminum supplied by Novellis, which operates an aluminum plant in Oswego, New York, but there was a major fire there three weeks ago. And it has people questioning, okay, what's going to happen, first of all, with production of the F-series, as well as with costs?

Most people I've been able to talk with. And by the way, we've reached out the first. Ford. Ford has said that it is sourcing through a number of areas. It's assessing the situation. But most people I've talked with have said, look, you've got the primary supplier, not just for Ford, but for other automakers when it comes to aluminum. So they have to pursue other suppliers. What could be the potential impact here? That's why shares of Ford are under pressure. Ford makes between $10,000 and $15,000 per F-Series vehicle. It will not make as much if it has to source from overseas or pay a higher cost. All of that, factors into the concern that weighed on shares today. Still don't know the exact impact and we may

not have a clear understanding until Ford reports its Q3 financials on October 23rd. Bottom line is this, Morgan, aluminum is a huge part of the success of the F-series truck. Once they went to an aluminum model, it allowed them to increase their margins on that truck and they've been successful using aluminum, not just with the F-series, but with other vehicles as well. And they're not the only automaker doing that. This fire disrupts that supply chain to what extent remains to be seen. Okay. I guess we're going to have to watch and wait and find out more. In the meantime, I want to ask you about some other automaker news, and that's Tesla, which actually finished the day down 4%. It almost seems like it was a seldom news event. They unveiled a lower cost model Y, but it's only $5,000 cheaper

than what's already in the marketplace. It does bring the base price under $40,000, or roughly $40,000, a little bit less. The Model Y is going to come in at about $40,000, the model 3, just under $37,000. Both of those having about a $5,000 price cut. And you might be saying to yourself, well, what do you get less of for $5,000 less? Things like the automatic steering wheel adjustment or the side mirrors or the heating vents, the heating and cooling vents in the back seat are now manually adjusted. Ambient lighting stripped out of the vehicle, essentially decontenting the vehicle as much as possible. The question now, Morgan, becomes, how much will this induce people to say, okay, I was not as interested without the federal $7,500 tax credit? But now you bring down the

price, I might be interested again in either the three or the why. All right. I guess we'll see, Phila Bo. Thank you. Well, up next, the top Black Rock portfolio manager on where he sees the biggest opportunities in fixed income during the fourth quarter. Up next, find out how you should be trading the bond market as we head towards the end of the year. You don't want to miss that. Stay with us. Welcome back. As the government shutdown drags on increasingly, investors are seeking safety. We told you about the big gains for gold. Many are buying Bitcoin. Where should bonds fit into the equation? Where should fixed income in general fit into the equation?

Well, joining us now with his fixed income outlook for the fourth quarter is Jeff Rosenberg, portfolio manager for BlackRock Systematic Multi-Strategy Funds. Great to have you here on set. Great to be here. Thanks for having. Let's start right there. You just put out your Q4 Outlook. What are your takeaways? Yeah, the key takeaways here, if you put it in one word, it's about disruption. And we talk a lot about that in the equity world and technology and disruption. But what you're seeing in the fixed income world, particularly globally, is a couple key points, but the first one is desynchronization of global economies.

And that creates opportunities for investors to think not just about the U.S. fixed income market, but about global opportunities as you're seeing central banks do different things across different inflation. So what do you like in a desynchronized world? So in a desynchronized world, what's happening right now is kind of Europe is getting to the end of its cutting cycle. The U.S. is in the middle of its cutting cycle. So it kind of brings back a bit of investment here at the U.S. market. I think the big theme globally, as well as for the U.S., is where on the curve does that look attractive? And we've been emphasizing more of kind of the short to the middle end, and that still is our focus.

But the back end over the course of the year has improved in terms of its valuations. a big, steepening move, relatively higher yields in the long end than the short end. So it means adding a bit back in that part of the portfolio as well. Hey, Jeff. It's John. Tell us about how investors should be making decisions. You talk in this report about alternative data, which I guess is especially important during this government shutdown. And as we've had these major revisions to jobs reports, even when we are getting them, what's the sort of data that you're using that investors should be using to gauge

how they should invest in fixed income. Yeah, it's a great question, and invest in fixed income as well as ascertain, you know, the outlook for the macro environment. And with the shutdown, we've all had to move towards alternative data. I highlight in our section of this piece, just, you know, the success we've had in using alternative labor market data. And that's been a big focus because of the payroll revisions and obviously now the shutdown. And, you know, technology change has increased our ability to ascertain the labor market.

labor markets. You've got more job posting data. You've got more wage data. We highlight that the wage data has been really effective. And right now, what it's kind of telling you is it's validating that slowdown that we've seen that's kind of put in to the market price and the expectations that the Fed's going to continue to ease here. You guys seem to like municipal bonds? Yeah, you know, you see a really attractive yield spread when I talk about the curve or when Pat Haskell, the head of our group here talks in this piece about kind of the yield premium that you see in moving out the curve. In treasuries, it's okay. It's steepened, and we like that a little bit. It's even better in municipalities, and that's something that we're highlighting as an

opportunity for investors. I realize the dollar has been strengthening against other currencies in recent days, but in general this year, it has weakened a fair amount. We were just talking about treasuries and what's happening in the yield curve. How much of that is reflected in what we're seeing happen in the gold market right now? It's a big part. I mean, the overall weakening dollar, the seeking out of alternative forms of safe havens. You know, we're talking about fixed income. Typically, you think about treasuries in the front end of the curve. There's a lot of uncertainty around the back end of the curve because of fiscal policy,

because of the debt and the deficits. And so this kind of seeking out alternative forms of stores of value, gold's been a huge beneficiary of that. And the bigger factor as well here kind of sneakily is inflation hasn't really come down, while the expectations and the reality of Fed rate cuts have come down. What does that mean? It means your real interest rates have come down. And that typically is a big support for gold prices when the alternative, real income out of fixed income is going down.

So that's another thing we're seeing behind gold prices. All right. Jeff Rosenberg, great to have you on set. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And John, we did have stocks move fractionally lower reverse gains today as we do continue to move through a shutdown. And we look to our earnings season next week. I'll point out just the stock we talked about a couple times in the past few days,

App Lovin, it was down majorly a couple days ago on a report. It popped back up. All right. Well, that does it first here at overtime.