Closing Bell - Closing Bell Overtime: November 11, 2025

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

From the open to the close, “Closing Bell” and “Closing Bell: Overtime” have you covered. From what’s driving market moves to how investors are reacting, Scott Wapner, Jon Fortt, Morgan Brennan and Michael Santoli guide listeners through each trading session and bring to you some of the biggest names in business. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

That's the end of regulation. Academy asset management ringing the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange. Palantir doing the honors at the NASDAQ, both in honor of Veterans Day. God bless our veterans. A split market today, huge gain for the Dow. 550 points, record closing high. Small gain for the S&P 500, the NASDAQ and the red, as the story today was rotation rather than risk off. Healthcare, the best performing sector today. Mergin amgen among the big contributors to the Dow's gains. with Nike and Goldman Sachs. Invidia, the worst performing Dow stock after SoftBank sold its entire stake in the company. The weakness weighing on chips overall. We're going to have more on that in just a moment.

Another sign of today's rotation out of momentum. Bitcoin and Ether both following. And as the weather gets colder, natural gas stays a red hot up 50% in a month and levels not seen since late 2022. Now that is the scorecard on Wall Street. But winter stay late. Welcome to closing about overtime.

I'm John Ford, alongside Morgan Brennan. Coming up on today's show, we're expecting results from Oathlow. The power player has been a hot stock of 5X this years. Everyone's looking for companies that power AI data centers. And Cantor Fitzgerald holding a big conference on these very issues, AI energy infrastructure, cryptocurrencies. We're going to talk to Cantor's chairman, Brandon Lutnik, and the CEO of Riot, Jason Les, as his company adds data centers to its Bitcoin mining infrastructure.

But we start with the market. markets, and what's sending NVIDIA and the chips lower. Let's get to Christina Parts Nevelas at the NASDAQ for more. Hi, Christina. Hi, Morgan. Like you said, the chip stocks really had a volatile session. Invidio slipped about almost 3% after SoftBank did disclose it sold in its entire almost $6 billion stake. There's nothing against Nvidia's, you know, almost $5 trillion market cap, but the sale fund SoftBanks competing AI efforts with Open AI, as well as chip designer and peer. I don't think that got enough attention today. SoftBank also owns Arm, which is pushing into AI.

AI data center chips, which is a direct threat to Nvidia's GPU dominance, so it's hard to own your own competitor. Now, AMD, also falling today down about 2.5%. Even as CEO Lisa Sue doubled her AI market forecast to over $1 trillion by 2030 at the company's first analyst day since 2022. She laid out aggressive targets, like capturing over 50% of the server market in five years, which was really just a direct shot at Intel, which is why you saw Intel shares turn negative, of closing almost 1.5% today. But that trillion dollar figure does include traditional CPUs

and networking gear, not just AI chips, and the street maybe wanted pure AI numbers, which is why you saw a negative reaction. And let's end with Corwee, because those shares tumbled 16%. Company was also downgraded by J.P. Morgan after its 2025 guidance missed.

The company blamed a third-party data center buildout delay and the risk when you don't control your own infrastructure, power, construction timelines, really today's takeaway from Corweave is it only takes one bottleneck to derail the entire AI. I shouldn't say entire, but some of the AI build out. Yeah, we were talking about the risks in Corweave here on overtime yesterday. Christina, thanks. Well, the momentum coming out of tech after a big gain yesterday, but the Dow, the big gainer today, thanks to health care,

which had been an underperformer. Let's bring in Mike Santoli now for his take on the markets. Mike, the VIX was down today, even though, you know, the NASDAQ was down, the Dow and S&P ending in the green with the indices near or at these all-time highs. It's hard to put too much weight on one day's story, right? Well, it is. I mean, and all things being equal, I guess they're never always equal, but it's probably a net positive that on a day when the hottest sector of the market, the one that everybody is sort of kind of believes has the market's destiny in its hands, AI, was, was. in retreat, the overall market hung in there. And the reason you would see the VIX down on a day like today is when stocks go their separate ways, it nets out to very little S&P 500 movement. That's what we got today, and that bleeds the VIX lower if it's

starting in the high teens. Again, not really a strong signal, a net positive. I do think it's a noisy tape. I mentioned a little while ago, 52-week lows on the NASDAQ are pretty elevated. There's been a lot of attention on that, a lot of 52-week highs and lows. So the market is getting kind of separated out into winners and losers, that can be positive if it's just all very rational or it could be kind of hollowing out the base of the market of the median stock. So there's time for us to figure that out. I don't think we're going to escape the AI bubble debate or people overdoing it or doing is the CAPEX going to get a payback at all the rest of it. That's going to be with us, even if this kind of boom goes on for another

year or two with probably some gut checks along the way. How much clarity Do you think the street now has investors have on the impact of the government shutdown over this unprecedented period of time, if any, on markets? Based on how the market reacted to the news over the weekend about things loosening it up and it looks like this thing is going to be over, is all of that priced in now and how much what was pricing affecting that government shutdown stuff in the market anyway? I mean, during the course of the shutdown, there has been some wear and tear on underlying economic. sentiment, and things like consumer cyclical stocks have definitely underperforms significantly. The typical consumer discretionary stock is 6, 7% off of its high, and you have the S&P 500 within 1%. So definitely some unease there. I do think that it's probably going to be looked through or the market will attempt to look through it because you are going to get back pay. People

will have a little bit of an acceleration in spending. It probably nets out to not a big effect. By the way, federal workers are like 2.5% of overall U.S. employment, so obviously it's not going to swing the economy by itself. I also think it might buy economic data from here on out, a little bit of a long leash. People are willing to rationalize a way that it was either shutdown affected or the collection was not timely. All that maybe means we don't have a tremendous amount of macro guideposts to look toward over the next several weeks. All right. Mike Santoli, thank you. We'll see a little bit later this hour. Well, it's been a volatile November for the market with the VIX hire, the S&P 500 basically flat as investors begin to worry about a potential AI bubble inflating, frothiness and parts of the market. But joining us now for his read and so much more in an exclusive interview is Cantor Fitzgerald Chairman Brandon Letnik.

He is at the Canter Crypto and AI Energy Infrastructure Conference in Miami. And Brandon, it's great to have you on. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me. So a multi-day conference, you're basically sitting at the intersection of cryptocurrencies, and AI infrastructure and energy and everything it's going to take to build out all of this compute, what are your takeaways from the conference,

from your clients that use Cantor as an investment bank, as we do have this debate here more broadly about what we're seeing in AI buildout and worries about spending? I mean, the energy here is amazing. You have Palo Arduino from Tether, SEC Chairman Atkins,

majority house with Tom Emmer, Michael Saylor, the Winklevye, Sarah Fryer from Open AI. I mean, the energy here is amazing. So from sitting at this conference, what I could say is I'm bullish. It's just the real fact of it. You know, I love what's happening in this country. And the energy on this floor is amazing. I mean, I don't know how much you can see behind me, but we have incredible thought leaders,

and I'm just lucky and fortunate to be at the heart of it. So you're not concerned about how much spending is going into AI, AI and whether there's a bubble inflating? You know, it's hard for me to comment on that, but the only thing I know is that I would not bet against AI sector. I wouldn't get a bet against Jensen. I wouldn't get, these guys are the smartest minds

in the world, and everyone knows that AI is gonna change the world that we live in. It's just a matter of when and how. So for me, as the investment banker and the Chairman of Canaver Sherald, you know, my job is to help support great people and great companies, and I would not bet against them. Yeah. You've also leans in hard to SPACs, and that's actually been the case for Canter for a number of years now.

I mean, some folks have pointed to that as a sign of frothiness, the fact that those are gaining in popularity again. How would you respond to that? I'd respond by saying the IPO market's been shut, and I think that's really the defining factor is facts. You know, Canter was the number one SPAC underwriter before the boom in 2021. You know, during the boom, we stayed. And then when everyone else, and then when everyone ran away from the sector, We stayed committed to it and I think SPACs are an incredible, you know, tool for the market. It allows quick access and allows, you know, younger companies to get to the market quickly.

I mean, you've seen that with, you know, DATS, you know, digital asset treasuries. You know, 21 capital was one that I, my first, you know, big deal I canter. And it was really, you know, everything that defines cancer to me, which is, you know, commitment to SPACs and a commitment to crypto, you know, two sectors that canter because we're private, because we really, you know, commit to spaces we have conviction in, you know, it really brought that together when we launched, you know, the third largest Bitcoin Treasury ever in 21 Capital. So, you know.

I mean, the synergies between cryptocurrencies and AI are really fascinating to me. Case in point, the name of your conference. And we're going to be talking to one of these Bitcoin miners that's converting over to AI data centers a little bit later in the show, Riot. But you also make the case that stable coins are part of the AI thesis. How? Stable coins have to be part of the AI thesis. I mean, I've learned this from Palo Arduino from Tether himself,

but could you imagine what it means for AI agents to pay AI agents autonomously? That's what stable coins will hypothetically allow for autonomous transactions. I mean, the imaginary future, the goal would be, in my opinion, that AI agents are everywhere, you know, they better our lives, to make our lives more efficient, more simple, and they will be able to pay for themselves. Imagine, you know, your Tesla goes to get charged, and while you're at work and is driving as your personal taxi where it's making you money, and it needs to get charged, you're not there to pay the money for the battery, so your AI agent, your Tesla pays the gas station AI agent

using stable coins, using USDT, using USAT, and even USC, and it will allow for autonomous payments. And again, you know, I think more than that, stable coins are brilliant because of what they do for the U.S. dollar around the globe in terms of dollar hegemony and letting the U.S. dollar be the reserve currency on the globe. So, you know, Palo taught me that himself, and I think he's right on the nose. Yeah, and of course, Cantor is a major investor in Tether and sort of the most prominent banker for Tether, which is what you're hinting at there, too. I think all of this sort of speaks to this growing intersection between investment, money, and I'll say technology, innovation, and increasingly policy. And of course your dad is the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnik, as well. So I just want to get your thoughts on how these worlds are converging

and how the policy coming out of Washington is unlocking the potential for some of these new industries. I think we're very lucky to have an administration that cares about this country. You know, it's more than just the administration, though. It's our senators and representatives as well. You talk about the Genius Act passing. These are a group of people that really care about the country and keeping America great and passing legislation to make keep America at the forefront of AI and the forefront of digital. And to me, you know, at Canter, those are two spaces.

We want to be helpful and we want to be a part of, you know, my job, again, is to help great people, great companies to accomplish their goals, whether it's raising money, get public, you know, whatever it is. So I just think the way I see it is we're incredibly lucky to have a group that we do. And it's a very exciting time to be in America. All right. Brandon Lutnik, the chairman of Cancer Fitzgerald. Thank you for joining me. Thank you so much.

Coming up, we're going to tell you what's behind the big intraday spike for shares of FedEx. And Oklahoma's shares moving slightly lower in overtime after results. The company reporting a loss of 20 cents a share. Bigger than the 13th Street expected, Oklahoma's a pre-revenue company. but it says it has more than a billion dollars in total assets, including $400 million in cash. The company's CEO is about to join us before he talks to analysts on the conference call when overtime's back in two. Welcome back. Shares of FedEx with a big intraday move higher.

The company presenting, you can see where this move took place at the Baird Global Industrial Conference and FedEx updating the guidance that it gave in September, saying not only does, it expect this quarter to be better than the last one, but that it also expects improvement compared to last year on earnings. Now, they did add that freight is under pressure, which will lead to lower margins, but keep in mind they are also spinning that freight business, too. So that is potentially a short-term dynamic for the company overall. Shares of FedEx, finishing the day at 5.5%. All right. Well, small caps are not all the same. Which small cap index is leading the way can tell you a lot about the market. Senior market's comment.

commentator Mike Santoli, joining us now to explain, Mike. Yes, John. So specifically the Russell 2000, which of course is broader, almost 2,000 stocks, does not have a test for profitability to get in the index. So a huge percentage of those companies are not profitable. It's a lower quality in financial terms, lower quality index. This is the Russell 2000 relative to the S&P small cap 600, which does have a profitability filter. So it's a higher quality subset of small caps. So when this number is rising, when this ratio is rising. Obviously, it's a chase for risk and leverage and lower quality. And that's what happened, 2020, 2021. We remember it, the meme stocks and all the rest. The Russell also does

have lots of exposure to speculative kind of meme type stocks in its top 10. And we saw a recent ramp that was very similar, especially when the market got some confidence we were going to get more fed rate cuts. It seemed to be this kind of dash for junkier type companies, or at least ones where the profitability is farther out in the future. Now, we have had a little bit of a roll over there, a switch back in this ratio. So quality starting to outperform in the last little while. I don't know if that's a sort of permanent inflection point. It wouldn't be surprising if it were, but there is a lot of talk now about how earnings beats among small caps are getting rewarded. And a lot of the earnings revision momentum looks pretty good there.

So maybe there's going to be a new focus on profitability among smaller companies. A separate measure of just how much the market is kind of has a sense of urgency in chasing after individual ideas and risk is this, which is showing single stock volatility, actual volatility exhibited by these stocks over three months, and how high it is. Now, these are major, major sellers. That's a financial crisis. That's COVID right there. What's interesting here is this up trend in single stock volatility, even as the market in general has been rising. Now, that was a dynamic you see when things start to get kind of frothy in the late 90s as well. Of course, much higher levels of volatility. So volatility up, stock prices up, is something that does happen when you get this

kind of momentum chase and maybe ultimately some kind of a bubble. So we're short of those conditions, but it's kind of percolating in that direction, guys. Interesting. Mike, I want to ask you about that first chart because it looked to me like 105 was a little bit of a line of demarcation there, and we're still up above that level in that ratio between the Russell 2000, the S&P 600, even though we've come down a bit. No? We are for sure. I guess I would just caution that that's just means 105 basically means the Russell outperforming the small cap 600 by five percentage points from the start, right? So it's kind of this rolling, you know, how much ahead or behind is the Russell. But yeah, you are right

that it basically had this very steep acceleration through that level and now it's kind of getting gut checked on the downside. So yeah, we'll see if this ratio sort of tells us anything or if it's just going to be noisy. You see it kind of chopped around here for, you know, probably a year in 2021. All right. Mike Santoli, thank you. Coming up, more on the AI infrastructure theme with Jason Les, CEO of Riot Platforms. That company is adding data centers to its Bitcoin mining operations. The stock has been a nice gainer. It's up 45% in the past three months. And Oaklow, lower and overtime after reporting results, the company's CEO is about to join us and break it down. Stay with us. Welcome back to overtime.

And we want to extend our gratitude to all of the veterans for their service. In honor, our military, we also want to highlight how well the aerospace and defense sector is doing. But Spoke points out, the group has now closed above its 50-day moving average for 140 days. It's the longest streak in eight years. And that breakout really took root coming out of April, leading the charge, hire two drone makers, Cratus Defense and Arrow Environment, both more than doubling this year. Oh. Well, now let's get another check on Oklahoma. Shares are bouncing around lower than higher. Let's see, where are they now? Slightly fractionally higher. The company posting a loss of 20 cents a share,

wider loss than the street expected. And joining us now, first on CNBC, before the earnings call, is Jacob DeWitt, Oklahoma co-founder and CEO. Jacob, welcome. First, how should investors think about, this company, it seems based on the structure, it's almost like a gold mine or a biotech in the sense that you're reliant on certain approvals, but then if it works out, it works out really big. Yeah, it's an interesting question, and thanks for having me on and happy Veterans Day to everyone. I think it's one of those dynamics where we're looking at, it's actually an interesting analog in the gold mine side, because what you think about we're focused on producing is one of the most important and valuable commodities that exist today

that is also pretty significantly undersupplied in the country, which is power. And I think that's a huge opportunity space for us to be building into. And so if you think about what that size looks like and backing it sort of from that angle of realizing, hey, abundant large-scale energy supplies are going to be worth a lot for enabling all the things that we're wanting to do as a country, AI obviously is a big piece of it, but it's also things related to what you just talked about on defense, but also other things on commodity production and manufacturing, it's pretty clear that a company like ours that has a pretty unique positioning to be able to bring that to the market in a really constructive

way is a pretty exciting opportunity space. And then there are significant unlocks on the regulatory side. And by the way, one of the things that's really exciting is on the heels of the executive order assigned six months ago, there's actually been a lot of derisking in the regulatory space that I think the market is still really digesting. But that's really sizable in its impact towards realizing what you said, this kind of inflection point on growth. For sure. And I think investors have to figure out before there's really, a cadence of revenue after your execution, what the profitability model is going to be. Where does fuel fit into that? You have sort of some unique access to fuel in this situation.

It seems like you've got a faster track to being able to get some of these nuclear facilities up and running. But give us a sense of where recycled fits into that versus some of the government supplied and other. Yeah, this is one of the cool things that's really different about us. You know, nuclear is going to play a really important role in energy going forward no matter what. And one of the great things about our ability to tap into that is what we can do on the fuel side. That is so critical on delivering power, right? And that's why we've been focused on this since the beginning. We have a reactor design that can use a multitude of fuel sources, which is part of the reason why we have some of those fuel advantages in getting fuel now.

But it's also not constrained in the bottlenecks that a lot of others are, which is purely dependent on expanding enrichment capacity. Yeah, that's great. We'll be constructive. We're partnering with folks to help there. But we can tap into these other government sources of fuel. Like, for example, some of this excess plutonium that the government was going to spend a lot of money to bury and get rid of. Instead, they're making available now to fuel reactors. That's enough fuel to offset over 180 tons of enrich uranium need otherwise. That's a huge amount of fuel that we are pretty uniquely suited to be able to build from. We're not the only company, but we're really well positioned there. And that bridges us forward into recycling as well.

And that recycling opportunity is hard to overstate because it's a cost saver and, by the way, opens up additional revenue streams. I find, as I'm listening to CEOs, to companies talk about the upside and the promise, it tends to go down a lot easier, more convincingly, if they can also articulate the risk and the downside. So in all of this, given all of the advantages and strengths that you mentioned, how could this go wrong? What do investors need to think about the potholes in the road that could make this happen

slower than you think? Yeah. I think that's a thing we think about all the time since we started the company. What we think about all the time to both design force all through and mitigate against. I mean, I think one challenge has been regulatory dynamics and regulatory friction and headwinds. I think we feel really excited about how we're positioned there and some of the derisking that's occurred opening up different opportunities and pathways in the Department of Energy and Department of War as well as the NRC. So, you know, that's a watch point. Does it take longer? how long does it take? But now there's pretty clear indications that we're actually finding those moving to the left, which is one way to help with that. But look, things can still take a bit longer.

We were really excited that our fuel permitting, we got that done in a matter of weeks and kind of record-setting time frame. So that was a good indication. But look, before that, it was taking a couple years until these kind of policy changes happened. So that's a big shift. I think additionally, it is a volatile market in the fuel side. So some things are going to be more expensive than not as ultimately this kind of converges. But again, That's why we're mitigating to having the opportunity to use other sources of fuel and ultimately controlling our destiny with recycling. One piece on that, the used fuel in this country, the waste in that, has enough energy

remaining to be equivalent to about 1.2 trillion barrels of oil. That's like global oil reserves. It's a huge opportunity, right? That's a big stop. Unfortunately, we're going to have to leave it there. I know you've got a call to get to as well, Jacob DeWitt, CEO of Oklahoma. For sure. Thank you. Well, it's time now for CBS News Update with McKenzie Segalos.

Hey, Mac. Hey, Morgan. A new report says the U.S. military is exploring whether to build a base near Gaza to house 10,000 people as part of a proposed international stabilization force. Bloomberg reporting that the Pentagon has been seeking support to send a group of foreign troops to the area to help secure the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas, but that no U.S. troops would be deployed to that area. The Trump administration is eyeing Charlotte as the next target city for its immigration

enforcement operations, according to an NBC news report. The exact timing for any operation is unclear, but is expected to follow border patrol commander Greg Bovino's plan exit from Chicago this week. And watchdogs from mortgage giant Fannie Mae, who were ousted from their jobs, had been probing if FHFA director Bill Pulte had improperly obtained mortgage records of top Democratic officials, according to the Wall Street Journal. Fannie's Investigations Group received internal complaints saying senior officials had improperly directed staff to access mortgage. documents of New York Attorney General Letitia James and others who have been targeted by Pulte. Back to you guys. All right. Thank you, Mac.

Well, it's been less than two months since the market cheered Oracle's big AI backlog, but now that stock has given up all those gains. Is it a sign that we're entering a new phase of AI investing? Over time, we'll be right back. Welcome back to overtime. The Dow gaining 550 points, closing at a record high. Small gain for the S&P 500. We've got a small loss for the NASDAQ. Rotation today out of momentum, including NVIDIA. That stock falling 3%. Also, soft banks saying it sold its entire stake in NVIDIA. And health care, the best performing sector. There's been a lot of chatter on the network in the last couple of days about the investment opportunity there.

So perhaps playing out here in the market, Amgen Merck, Johnson & Johnson helping to lead the Dow higher. trade has been under pressure so far this month, with the tech down more than 2% on rising valuation concerns. Is now the time for investors to rotate out of tech, or is there room to run in the MAG7 and the AI trade? And joining us now is I Capital Chief Investment Strategist, Chenali Basik. Great to have you, first time on this show, but you've been on many shows before. Tell me how you're looking at this particularly AI infrastructure investment cycle, maybe

compared to what happened with fiber during the dot-com boom? I mean, you seem like a fool not to be in it until you seem like a genius not to be in it. Yeah, this is the time to closely look at leverage, isn't it? You're watching finally debt be a part of the story, a lot of interesting numbers around that. But something that gives us comfort is the scale at which you're seeing debt really fuel this cap-X cycle. So leverage only being about a 7% of the cap-back cycle right now, as opposed to the telecom boom, that was closer to 32%. So we're kind of a long way still, right, before we get really worried about the leverage. Now, with that said, we do think that the investor psychology is changing.

Meta's a really interesting example of this. They were the leader in the market in the MAG 7 for the first half of the year. When they said they were spending more on CAPX, everyone was excited about it. Now they're saying they're spending more on CAPX, and they're not a leader. They're, in fact, a laggard in the MAG 7. We think investors are recalibrating their thinking around this, not just the fact that companies are spending, the cost of capital and the risks around those spending, remember meta and Oracle of the MAG7 group, are the only ones right now expected to post less free cash

flow next year than this year, whereas the whole group this year saw an aggregated decline. Back in the late 90s, you have this dynamic where VCs were pumping money, spending money into startups that were maybe questionably viable, in part by having companies buy up. other company's equipment, right? So it looked like real great revenue when maybe it wasn't as great. This time, we've got big hyperscalers doing something that some people might see as similar. Is that a concern or no? You know, it's interesting. You look at not just the hypers spending. You look at what's behind that spending. We use CoreWeave as an example just in the last 24 hours. A lot of fears under the surface around this delayed contract. They're telling you they

just secured 2.9 gigawatts worth of power. That's the kind of thing that we want to hear from more companies on what's been secured. That's about two nuclear plants worth of power, isn't it? Now, when it comes to the broader landscape, that's where I have more questions. There has been this massive set of investments in buildout. A lot of our clients, for example, looking at data infrastructure in the private markets as well, something I heard just this morning from a large investor in that space was actually you have to now start thinking about what pricing looks like in that space. So I would say this is not just about what you're seeing in venture capital, but even in the private markets, you have to ask hard questions about what is being

secured around that infrastructure and the cost of it. And, you know, now everyone kind of has to get putting pen to paper on a very granular level in this industry. Yeah, and of course, in Focus Now, and we saw it, I think there's an FT article overnight about the focus now on the bond market and credit markets, too, to your point. What I hear you saying is it's time to focus more on free cash flow. Yes, 100%. Free cash flow, and it's interesting. You can't I think I'm afraid of debt just because it's debt. I think you have to look at how much it's going to be adding to the balance sheet and eating away at that free cash flow. At the end of the day, debt's another expense as well. It's an interest expense on top of lease expenses,

on top of depreciation expenses, which we're clicking a very close eye on into next year. Depreciation, I think, is going to become another word that is very much an investor parlance going into 2026. Another promising stat from Corrieve just in the last 24 hours is the fact that they were able to resell, essentially, their H-100s at 5% less than what they got it for. That's a promising sign. At the same time, you saw Amazon reduce this year the useful life of its technology equipment. Good, fine. But again, if we saw more of that across the hyperscalers, that could shave a lot of money off of their EBITDA.

We think some of that can be recouped through the tax bill. But these cross currents are what investors will be starting to suss out into next year. we certainly are. With that said, we think that there are many ways to play this. Okay. Janali Basik, thanks for joining us here on set. It's great to have you. Good to be here. Thank you guys for having me. Well, up next, the CEO of Bitcoin Minor Riot Platforms on the Outlook for Cryptocurrencies, which have been crushed in recent weeks, and perhaps more importantly, how the company is moving into the data center space. And it's a question echoing across the business world,

will AI replace human workers? Some of the top tech CEOs way, in this AI angle. We should not be afraid of AI. We should actually be embracing AI for all of the places that it can help. And what it doesn't replace is really smart, creative people. And we see that all across the board. When we think about security, it's not about eliminating the jobs. It's about elevating.

Let the agents do what they do well, which is analyze this data, correlate this data, understand where the threats are. And then the humans, become the controllers of all these different agents. You can make more manufacturing jobs, which are humans, working class humans. You can build things you couldn't build in the past. And those humans become more and more valuable than they were in the past. Welcome back to overtime.

Check out shares of Instacart. Big winner today up 5%. BMO capital markets upgrading the stock to outperform from market perform on strong earnings and guidance this week. the stock trading at a discount to its historical average. BMO also bullish on what they call the company's third monetization engine, the ad business. Well, take a look at Bitcoin and Ether, down more than 5% and 10% respectively since the start of November. That says investors shift away from risk assets in recent weeks. Bitcoin briefly breaking below $100,000 last week. The move lower

is even more pronounced in the crypto ecosystem. Stocks, riot, Mara, strategy, core weave, all down by at least 12% for the month, is the selling providing a good entry point for investors. We'll join us now in an exclusive interview from the Cantor Crypto and AI Energy Infrastructure Conference is Jason Les. He is CEO of Riot. Jason, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. All right, so I am going to get your outlook on cryptocurrencies and some of the moves we've seen, and then we can get into AI infrastructure from there. Sure.

So where do you see Bitcoin headed here? So, Bitcoin is always a volatile asset. I think 2025 has been a pretty transformative year for Bitcoin in the digital asset market more broadly. We've continued to see success from the ETF offerings that were introduced in 2024. We've seen major pieces of legislation passed. We've seen huge regulatory hurdles move to the side. I think the next thing the industry is looking for is the Clarity Act to be passed into

the law that will provide a lot of rules of the road for the industry and I think ease a lot of investors concerned how this industry has looked at, regulated, overseen. And I think what we're seeing is the volatility of Bitcoin reducing over time as is more adopted as it becomes a more long-term hold in different investors' portfolio. So I think the long-term outlook has never been more positive, but it's always with Bitcoin, with cryptocurrencies, it is a volatile ride up into the right. Yeah. And even as we have this conversation, we're seeing the entire Bitcoin mining industry, essentially pivot towards high-performance computing, AI data center build-out and transformation.

You've talked about that. It's been a big year in terms of that shift for Riot. When should we expect to see you disclose some of these new contracts and new clients? So Riot is in a tremendous position with the assets that we have today. We have 1.7 gigawatts of power in service, fully approved at two sites that's in operation near major markets in Texas. This presents an incredible opportunity for Riot to meet the tremendous demand

from hyperscalers, from enterprise customers, from Neo-Clouds looking for more data center capacity. So we have been aggressively building out our capabilities and advancing on the data center division here at Riot. We have completed a basis of design. We are engaging with customers on a technical level right now, and we have most recently announced a development of the first two buildings at our data center campus

in Corsicana, Texas. So we are moving very aggressively. We feel very confident about our ability to deliver. We're getting a lot of feedback in the market. And the next step for us as we advance on design, development, and engineering is to have commercial discussions with the end goal of landing a lease

for this data center capacity with a high-quality tenant, whether it be a hyper-scaler enterprise customer or neocloud. Jason, on that, as demand, eventually fluctuates in crypto. We've seen it happen before. How fungible is the infrastructure for workloads, switching it over to AI to other things? And then how exposed do you think you are

to the different estimates of how much overage some of these major customers might need? Maybe they need less based on how much they're building out in the future? So, recent research put out by Steven Bird at Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley. He has ongoing piece where he tracks the data center shortfall, a data center capacity shortfall through 2030. Every time he puts out this report, the shortfall increases. His current estimate went from a 45 gigawatt shortfall to a 49 gigawatt shortfall. The demand

for capacity keeps growing. The supply of capacity keeps shrinking and not going along that. We have a huge supply demand and balance here. That's why companies like Riot with power approved in operation today have an incredible advantage. and a great position to capitalize from this imbalance. So we think there's tremendous demand here for what we're building with data center capacity. As far as the conversion from Bitcoin mining to data centers, there are really two types of builds.

What we are doing are building new buildings, full tier three data centers on unused land that we have at our sites. We're starting off building, utilizing the power capacity that is available in unused today, and then eventually we'll be taking down the capacity that we use for Bitcoin mining mining as we advance on our data center development. So the conversion is not much of a story

for us. The demand is incredible. We hear continuous positive feedback about our sites, and we feel very confident in the strategy we're executing on. Okay. Jason Les, a riot. Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. Up next, CEO of Betterment on the company's new robo advisor that will warn investors about the tax ramifications of the stocks and ETS that they buy. And check out shares of social trading platform E. Toro surging after Deutsche Bank upgraded the stock to buy from hold, citing strong earnings and valuation. Coming into today, the stock had been down nearly 30% since going public in May, but popping 9% today. Stay with us. Welcome back to overtime. Wild ride for Papa John's continuing in today's trade. You can see

the stock shot higher yesterday morning on take. Takeover rumors, closing 7% higher. Today, it gave back that gain on reports the rumors were false. But over the past month, the stock jumped on real takeover interest from Apollo, but then sank when that offer was pulled. Well, Betterment is launching a new Robo Advisor that will allow retail customers to buy and sell individual stocks and ETFs. With a key feature that will warn investors about the tax ramifications, joining us exclusively right here on set. Betterment CEO, Sarah Levy, it's great to have you. Thank you so much.

All right, so let's talk about this new product and why you're bringing it to market. why you're bringing it to market now? We're bringing it to market because our customers are asking for it, really. And 75% of our customers have told us that they're doing self-directed investing alongside their managed investing, and they're just doing it somewhere else. And this is in contrast to a decade ago when there were really two archetypes of investors. There was a managed investor who wanted someone else to take care of it, and then there was a self-directed investor.

And this generation just doesn't think that way. This generation wants to do both, and it's a spectrum, and we want to meet them where they are. And we want to meet them where they are. Yeah. So does this put you in more direct competition with the Robin Hoods of the world? I mean, I can't say no in the sense that, you know, we're all trying to help customers build more wealth, or at least we're trying to help customers build more wealth. And but when I think about what we're doing differently, I think our tax transparency is a huge part of the offer that really elevates it and supports our customers as a fiduciary.

And that's really important to us. There's a much bigger use of options, of leverage, a margin. trading from retail investors now? How far into that are you willing to go, given the sort of responsible legacy of Betterment? I think that's a great question. And I think we will get there over time, because I do believe that as we evolve into a wealth platform wholesale, that you're going to have to meet customers where they want. But just like with this introduction, we're bringing a tax transparency layer. I think we want to be thoughtful about how we use the opportunity to educate customers and not to gamble. What else are you seeing customers demand in this environment

that you might be willing to supply? I mean, there's been this rise of ETFs as well as what's happened in the margin and options, et cetera. But, I mean, some of it might just be a flash in the pan. So I think we're going to expand the universe of securities that are available, and we're going to continue to do that and follow demand. We also have an advisor side of our platform where advisors want maybe some of those more advanced. We think of them as like the power tools users, right? So give them more controls. I do think we'll get to margin. That's probably late next year. And direct indexing will be the next thing we bring. How does AI factor into all this? So we think about AI in two ways. Right now in customer service, we're getting

incredible efficiencies out of AI and basically AI can tackle all the simple customer problems so that the humans can handle the more complicated problems. But we will be introducing some AI in the product. Through a fiduciary lens, it's a little challenging, so we're going to take narrow slices, but you'll see that at the beginning of the year from us. How much are you perhaps not adding workers because of those efficiencies that you're seeing? How much are you adding different workers than you would have otherwise? I think we're adding workers who understand AI more so than anything else, and we're looking to increase their productivity. But we still have a long way to go as we scale, so I think we'll

continue to hire, and I'm excited about the opportunity to basically continue to be growing at a time when maybe some others are pulling back. I'm going to ask you the question I ask you every time you come on. I peel on the cards. Someday. Now, when you look at what is happening with tech stocks right now, we've been talking about it a lot. It's spilling over into other areas, including energy utilities. How much does it remind you of prior periods? How much of that history is just sort of out the window, giving the almost uninterrupted run that the markets have been on. Look, you can't help but compare this to the dot-com bubble, and I think there's certainly signs, but I would say as a good, Betterment investor, I play the long game, and I don't try to time the market.

All right, Sarah Levy, Betterment. Thanks for joining us here on set. Good to see it. Well, up next, all the earnings reports that need to be on your radar ahead of tomorrow's trading day. And don't forget, you can catch us on the go by following the closest bell overtime podcast. on your favorite podcast app. We'll be right back. And a lot of chatter on what this will do

for consumer sentiment as we go into the holiday season as well. A lot of Fed speak on tap the next couple of days as well. That's going to do it for us here at overtime now. Oh, but there is so much more to talk about coming up on fast money. Fast money, which, of course, starts right now. Thank you.