Closing Bell - Closing Bell: Stocks Jump on Hopes for Trade Fight De-Escalation 4/22/25

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Strategas’ Chris Verrone tells us how he is navigating today’s jump. Plus, Tesla shareholders Gene Munster and Bryn Talkington weigh in on that name ahead of its earnings report. And, Treasury Partners’ Richard Saperstein tells us where he is seeing pockets of opportunity right now. 

Welcome to Closing Bell. I'm Scott Wavner live from Post9 here at the New York Stock Exchange. This make or break out begins with more trade twists and turns. A still volatile stock market today. The picture with 60 to go in regulation looks like that. Was an already good bounce. It got even bigger around midday today when reported comments from the Treasury Secretary about the trade war with China sent stocks shooting even higher. You can see the move. A little bit of a pullback after that lasted about an hour until a report from our very own trade war with China sent stock shooting even higher. You can see the move a little bit of a pullback after that lasted about an hour until a

report from our very own Eamon Javers moved the market yet again and took a little bit of steam out of this rally. He's going to join us momentarily from the White House with the very latest in what is still a fast turning

story because the market as you see is moving back towards the highs. The Dow is good for a little more than a thousand points right now. still a fast turning story because the market as you see is moving back towards the highs. The Dow is good for a little more than a thousand points right now. Two and two thirds percent.

Then there's the other big story after the bell tonight. It is Tesla those earnings in overtime always a highly anticipated release this time even more so given the stocks big decline this year and Elon Musk's elevated role in the

political arena. Phil LeBoe will have the latest for us in just a moment as well. We do begin though in Washington with our Eamon Javers on the North Lawn today. Eamon, you moved the market earlier. Now we're coming back a little bit. What is the very latest from your perspective

on the North Lawn? Well, Scott, what we heard is White House press secretary Caroline Levitt sending an encouraging signal about trade negotiations with China during her briefing this afternoon. She said President Trump wants to get to a deal. He wanted me to share with all of you that we're doing very well in respect to a potential trade deal with China. As I mentioned there have now been 18 proposals in more than 100 countries around the world who are wanting to make

a deal with the United States of America and the president and the administration are setting the stage for a deal with China. So we feel everyone involved wants to see a trade deal happen and the ball is moving in the right direction. And worth noting there, Scott, she didn't offer any specifics of what setting the stage for a deal means in real terms. And of course, there's no schedule for presidential level communications between the two countries. Meanwhile, CNBC has obtained a rough transcript of Treasury Secretary Scott Besson's remarks

on trade at that closed door event earlier that moved markets today. Here's what he said. He said, the next steps with China are no one thinks the current status quo is sustainable at 145 and 125 percent. So I would posit that over the very near future there will be a de-escalation and I think that should give the world, the markets, a sigh of relief. We have an embargo now on both sides, right? So Besant clearly suggesting there that the current situation amounts to an unsustainable trade embargo

between the United States and China, the two biggest economies in the world, and both sides, he says, have an incentive to cut a deal, Scott. Back over to you. Okay, Eamon, thanks so much. And great work today at the White House. On the ground reporting from our own Eamon Javers there.

We're getting some headlines as well from the Richmond Fed president, Tom Barkin. Steve Leesman is here with that. What people seem to be centering on, Steve, related to Mr. Barkin is comments about the consumer and spending and worries because of everything that's going on right now. What stands out most to you?

Well, this idea that he said, the Richmond Fed president, Scott, that there's a lot of reasons to be worried about consumer spending. I'm guessing he's taking that from a lot of the surveys and the sentiment surveys that have been out there. Maybe even more worrisome, Scott, was his comments that inflation expectations may have loosened. The Fed has been relatively sanguine about not the short-term ones, the short-term inflation

expectations, it's the long-term ones that have been difficult. He also says firms have been defensive, delaying and deferring investments. That's something we've heard a lot of, Scott. There were two reports this morning. Richmond Fed came out with a report as well, Philly Fed, non-manufacturing, and the Chicago National Activity Index. All these numbers are really negative right now. Again, these are survey numbers. And Scott, it's why I would point your attention to Thursday, the durable goods report,

not something that you get up in the morning and I suspect you're very excited about, but I will be because it will reflect some of these real numbers that are out there in the economy and we'll get a chance to see whether or not Barkin is right that we did have a decline in business investment as a result of all this uncertainty.

So far, it's mostly the sentiment data. And I'm assuming that's what Barkin's pointing at, but we'll have to see as to when over the next month or so, the next couple of weeks, we get some real data on the economy, if that starts to factor in to the economy and whether or not, again, you have this other issue, which is this China trade deal if that creates some positive momentum

But I think that the on second thought it wasn't as Optimistic as it sounded let me ask you about that the so-called soft data Because the data from the surveys hasn't necessarily shown up in the hard data The actual reports of what's happening as it relates to consumer spending and everything else, do you think that means in any way that if you get a more positive development related to trade, that you could have a faster sort of snap back because you haven't printed anything terrible, so to speak, just yet. It's all sentiment. And you can change sentiment based on headlines.

Yeah, most of it, Scott. I'll tell you the sentiment that I'm most worried about. I think that's a good way to think about it. It can come back quickly. The one I'm most worried about, though, is the job sentiment. When people are worried about their jobs, that can tend to shift spending over a long period of time till they feel secure about their jobs. So we keep seeing data about jobs that people

don't think like if they lose a job now can they find one quickly. That data is deteriorating. Are they worried about losing their job? That data is deteriorating. That's the sort of stuff. Scott, I was trying to think, and I'll have to do a piece on this and do more research, how many jobs now when you do the federal spending declines, when you do the trade issues, even when you think about the people who are going to lose their jobs because of the end of these university grants in the science sector, how many people throughout the economy go to bed at night worried about their job the next day?

I would submit to you, I don't know that number, I would submit it's probably in the tens of millions and a meaningful number of people are now worried about their job. And it doesn't matter if they don't lose it, let's hope they don't, but that could affect their spending I think over a long period of time here. Well, it's always hard to quantify, I suppose, like behavioral economics. You're going on people's feelings and their sentiment and how that would translate into hard data. It's an inexact science, to say the least. It definitely is.

And one of the stories I wrote that was among the most passed around at the time in 2001, Scott, was the issue about consumer sentiment having really seriously plunged in the wake of 9-11. And yet people, because of an incentive to buy automobiles and other things, people were spending pretty robustly in the wake of that consumer sentiment decline. It's very important that you look also at the balance sheet of consumers, which are pretty good.

We've had a rise in savings with an increase in income in part because people have not been spending. So they appear to have the wherewithal. And I think this supports your theory Scott that there could be a turnaround if there was some confidence in the economy and some feeling that things were going to get better. I will point out on the other side of that our CNBC All America survey did suggest that people's views about the future have deteriorated as well and this went along with all the other sentiment data. People are concerned they say they're not keeping pace with

inflation so I know you talked about some of that stuff yesterday about their attitude towards the stock market. Again that could turn around relatively quickly but you really want to have people feel secure about the future to do the kind of spending today. The big story with sentiment numbers Scott tends to be big ticket items. Not the day-to-day stuff, but whether you stretch out for those big ticket items, and that's when you feel secure about your future.

And you said durables is coming too. Steve, thanks so much. I appreciate that very much. That's Steve Leesman, our senior economics correspondent. Let's bring in now Chris Ferrone of Strategus, who's with us. I mean, there's so much to potentially kick around here. The notion of some level of progress. We don't necessarily need to define the progress. It's

the notion of that seems to be good enough for the market at least in this moment. Well I think this distinction you and Steve are making between hard data and soft data is an important one but I'm not sure the market is as focused on that here and in particular the markets not distinguishing between the soft data being weaker than the hard data when you look at cyclicality, cyclicality peaked I think the third week of November so cyclicals have been week long before this you've seen it with consumer discretionary you've seen it with the industrial so whether or not the hard data catches up to the soft data the

market certainly behaving as if it's a moot point. Or the market's placed its bet that the hard is going to be bad. Yeah, and I think that's really what's endemic about downtrends. We talk about the volatility today, you know, as if you have 2.5% coming off a 2.5% down day yesterday versus a 9% up day a few weeks ago. That type of volatility is very endemic to what one expects when the trend is down. What are you watching more than anything else at this very moment?

I'm watching two things. I would say number one, when you're in these downtrends, you have to raise the bar for what you want to see on the inside of the market to really escape out of this. We look at the internals very seriously. What we want to see is advanced decline skews that are overwhelmingly positive. So far we've had one really good internal day. That was that April 9th day. I think we were 35 to 1 advanced to decline. When you look at every major market bottom the last hundred years, you'll see those very strong days start

to cluster one after the other. Internally that's what we want to see. From a leadership perspective, I want to see. From a leadership perspective I want to see the market assume a more cyclical bias. That has not happened on this bounce yet. You look at the rally over the last two weeks, staples have been better than discretionary, utilities held their own, right? So it really hasn't assumed a pro-risk type of configuration. But that speaks to sentiment to a large degree as well. If you have incremental headlines that suggest some positivity towards whatever the outcome is gonna be with China,

then theoretically you'd have a fair amount of buying in cyclical areas of the market because you're gonna place your bets in advance that the market and the economy is gonna avoid the worst outcome. You know, Scott, it still feels like we're a little bit, we're in the high volume, high drama headline phase of all of this. Oh, for sure.

Maybe for a while. And I want to get this market to the lower drama, lower volume, almost the feeling of neglect or giving up. And I recognize that the sentiment data has been very lopsided here, but I don't get the sense that investors have given up here yet. And that's one of the necessary ingredients of ultimately putting it a good low. I don't think we have to go a lot lower here.

4,800 discounted a lot of bad outcomes. But the process of repairing the trends and basing after the damage so many stocks and sectors have endured I think is important. And let's add to that, Scott. One thing we haven't seen yet, we haven't seen the stuff people, the stuff that people view as most defensive or safe,

we have not seen that really get hit yet. That could be Costco or Walmart or gold. I think ultimately the safe stuff has to get hit here too. You make an interesting distinction between, you know, what some on the street and the notes this week have talked about the psychological versus physical yeah that psychologically sentiments terrible but large institutions and clients per se of you know Bank of America for example and they track the fund flows hasn't

necessarily turned into mass selling psychologically not necessarily physically right there's a difference between the two, obviously, in the outcome of a market. Yeah, and that's what I think still has to thaw here a little bit. I mean, we were two and a half years up with basically little interruption, and we're five or six weeks down.

Now it's been a large decline. I do think 4,800's probably a good low, but the process of retesting and basing is in front of us. I would also just note, when you're looking for unusual or extreme price action, what we've seen in gold, Scott, the last couple days is both unusual and extreme. This has all the makings of some type of a blow off there.

Well, what we've seen with what yield's been doing, what the dollar's been doing, what gold's been doing, why do you pick out gold more so than the other two asset classes classes which have all sort of collectively come together to raise concerns? I find it notable that gold's been in this bull market for two and a half years. And we've been lucky to have a good call here.

We've changed our tune the last week or so. This looks like a blow off now. Gold's 30% above the 200 day moving average. You go back the last 50 years. That's kind of the upper limit. It expects some type of a correction from that condition. The flows into the GLD over the last number of weeks are remarkably excessive and just the last couple days call volume in GLD is like six sigma from any historical average. So

the ingredients are there I think for some type of a setback here in gold. Note yesterday on the very strong up in gold all the gold stocks Actually reversed lower. You saw a new mount reverse lower Something's going on there. I think you're you're walking into some type of a correction there. All right I appreciate you being here and working with us here as we've had this breaking news Chris Varone from Strategist right here at post nine now to Tesla earnings shares higher today slam though over the past few months our Phil LeBeau is here With what is on the line tonight. And Phil, Dan Ives today, the well-known analyst calling

this one of the most important reports and conference calls for Tesla ever. And it's easy to see why, Scott. I mean, there are so many questions that are swirling around Tesla, Elon Musk, the future for the company beyond the automotive business. Let's start first off though talking about what's expected in terms of the Q1 numbers.

They're not gonna be pretty. We know that because there are slower sales in the first quarter. EPS 39 cents a share is the estimate. Revenue just over 21 billion. Free cash flow. There's even a few people who are suggesting they may not have positive free cash flow in the first quarter.

And there you see the automotive gross margin. 11.6%. Remember when it was under 20% people thought the sky was falling? Here are the three questions. I call it three of three for you, Scott. First of all, will Tesla's RoboTaxi start in June? They have committed to June as being the start of RoboTaxi service in Austin, maybe even on a very small level.

Is that still the case or does it get pushed out a month or two? Second question, in terms of Tesla production, is a lower price model delayed or are we still expecting to see it perhaps sometime in the third, maybe early fourth quarter? And then finally as you take a look at shares of Tesla, will Elon Musk signal an end to his work or at least scaling back his work with the Department of Government Efficiency, essentially working with the Trump Administration. Dan Ives has talked about the need for Elon to make a clean break at some point to say

to people, I am not going to be doing as much with Doge or I'm done with Doge. I'm not sure we get that, Scott. I think a lot of times we go into these calls and these reports and we say we want to hear X, Y, and Z from Elon Musk. You know say we want to hear X, Y, and Z from Elon Musk. You know how many times we hear X, Y, and Z? Not that often. We will hear parts of what we want answers to, but we may not get definitive answers on everything.

True, but it's not that often that Tesla gets cracked 50% going into a print either. So we'll see. It just raises the stakes even further. Phil, thank you. We'll see you, of course course with these numbers when they hit. Gene Munster of Deepwater owns Tesla shares personally. So does CNBC contributor Bryn Talkington of Requisite Capital with me both now as you see. Bryn, you first. There's a laundry list in front of us today of what is incredibly important. What's most? Tariffs, gross margins, brand damage,

new model delays, autonomous, Musk, you pick. You said it right there. I mean, you captured it. I agree with Phil, and I hope Dan Ives is right, that he says he's gonna focus on Tesla. I think he can focus on 10 different things. We've all seen that. But understand he does what he wants to do because he has these incredibly strong beliefs, whether you agree with

him or not. And so I don't know if he would say he would be stepping away from Doge. I don't, I think that may, I agree with Phil. I don't, I don't even remotely think that that's a high probability. I think it would be helpful for Tesla investors. But I think really what we want to understand is guidance, is that from a car company where 80% of the revenue, 80% of the revenue comes from cars today, 20% is other, is guidance. And also what's happening in China. Because I've talked about this a lot, China is where the EV, you have to sell cars in China, and there's so much competition. Tesla is still looked as a luxury brand, but it kind of feels like when you look at all of the other X-Pen, Lee, BYD, there's somewhat of a race to the bottom of just pushing out all of these cars.

So I really want to hear about China. I think Tim Cook, Jensen, and Yilong probably have the best relation with the Chinese government. And so I think that's going to be incredibly important in terms of what type of guidance are we going to see in China versus the US or Europe. So interesting, Jean. It's so much underscores as well the current environment that we find ourselves in that when I present Brynn with a laundry list of issues, she starts with all roads lead to Yilan and then everything else follows after that. I sent Brynn with a laundry list of issues. She starts with all roads lead to Elon.

And then everything else follows after that. Is that to you the most important thing we need clarity on tonight? What you know, Ives is called, you know, a code red situation and whatever other things that he said about Musk getting back to work, so to speak, at Tesla? I have a contrarian view, Scott, on how this all plays out. I think that tonight it really doesn't matter. And part of the reason why is that if we look back what the company said three months ago,

CFO talked about 2025 being a pivotal year. Since then, deliveries have been a disappointment. The whisk that you mentioned that, Phil mentioned that 11.5% estimate, the whisper number is more like 9 or 10%. People know 2025 is going to be a train wreck. And the question is, are they going to have a new vehicle that's going to be launched in 2026? And so I think this is a unique quarter where Tesla's got a lot of room to say a lot of negative things because there wasn't too much expectations about things getting better anytime soon. Estimates still need to be revised.

So, I think the conversation about Elon and I think psychologically it's important to investors agree that he probably doesn't say much about it. But at the end of the day, I think that people who own the stock today, own it for 2026. I mentioned train wreck near term. I think this is a own the stock today own it for 2026. I mentioned train wreck near-term I think this is a rocket ship long term and so they're doing all the right things but it's gonna be costly in 2025 What gives you the confidence though that that they can turn this around? It remains unclear as to what level of brand damage has been done Seems there's been some and how lasting it might be.

So I'm in the view that this is not a car company. I think that the autonomy piece, understanding that it's a great salesperson, but it resonates what they're doing. I think if you look at which companies are the most advanced when it comes to physical AI, it's probably Tesla and Andro. And so when I think about that question about cars, and I think that there's just a higher order that's going on. They've got to get the car business,

they've got to get through the brand damage. That's all going to happen. It may take six months, it may take a year, but they're going to get through it. And eventually, customers are going to vote on the merits. Is this the right car for the right price? And I still think that Tesla stands above the competition when it comes to not only range and price, but also what the future car could be like around autonomy.

And so that's when I talk about the rocket ship. I'm just a firm believer that physical AI will take longer, but be more impactful. And I think Tesla, no one is even close. Elon referred to it last quarter as you need a telescope to see the one who's in second place and he's right. You know, Bryn, do you agree with that? This picture painted of a six months to a year turnaround from a brand revival, if you want to call it that, if in fact it needs it.

I mean, it seems to be pretty accepted at this point that there's been some degree of brand damage caused by Musk's heightened role in politics. Is that something that you see turned around in six to 12 months? Well, if the economy is doing well, sure, right? It's all about execution. And so I don't think any. So I think the brand damage people have a very short term memory. But I think what he's actually doing and look at the robotics side. Look at Aptronic, which is an Austin-based robotics company doing a huge raise right

now. There's so many other companies, VC companies, very well-funded doing robotics. I feel that with XAI, with the robotics, with the autonomy, with the energy storage, I feel that investors will see this is a kitchen sink order or the next two are, but investors are gonna look forward and say, he has been able to deliver long-term, it always takes longer. I would be so surprised if there were any

robo-taxis in Austin in June. It just always takes longer than what he says it's gonna take, but I think this is a great year. You know, I mean, the price entry point matters, but as you know, I sell calls on this name. There's huge call premium, a ton of volatility. But this is where you step into a name where there's so many reasons not to buy the company.

But if you believe in the execution of Elon and his team, by the way, because it's not just him and his team, I think this year sets up to be a good entry point for future years. But make no mistake, they have to execute. and you can't have earnings continue to degrade, revenues continue to degrade, that will only work for so long. Yeah, I mean it's a numbers, the numbers don't lie, Jean, you are what your record says you are. They are what their gross margins are going to be reported as the number as you said is eleven point six?

Expectation could be single digit whisper General Motors does ten percent gross margins General Motors doesn't have a future business. That's the difference is that Agree all this agree Scott the the numbers matter in the long term but again they're gonna paint this as big investment year and no one's close and Elon does a great job of selling people and I think I think largely I'm not saying the stock's not going to be down tomorrow what I'm saying is

that it's going to be higher in a year from now. We'll leave it there thank you very much Gene and Bryn. Thank you. Bryn's going to stick around. Then there is Apple getting a nice boost today after influential analyst Eric Woodring put out a report on iPhone upgrades. Our tech reporter Steve Kovach, he joins us now with the details. It was pretty optimistic and maybe surprising in some corners. Yeah, that's right, Scott. I got two takeaways from this survey. By the way, this was for US customers who own iPhones already.

Let's talk about the two that we got here. First, there's Apple Intelligence, and then the new iPhone designs. Let's start with AI, though. This survey says 80% of US iPhone owners have used Apple Intelligence, if they have a compatible device, of course, but just a 53 net promoter score.

Woodring says that's surprisingly positive, but that net promoter score is actually pretty mild. So it really shows a super majority of users have tried Apple Intelligence, but a lot of them aren't super enthusiastic about it. Remember, Woodring actually lowered his iPhone sales estimates after Apple delayed that Siri AI update earlier this year.

But let's put AI aside and things look really rosy on the hardware front ahead of the iPhone 17 launch coming up this fall. The survey says 51% are extremely likely to upgrade their iPhone within the next 12 months and 60% are currently using an iPhone that's at least three years old. That happens to be the sweet spot

for folks who want to upgrade. And the excitement around new designs and form factors, that's Apple's bread and butter, right? Survey says here, 40% are extremely interested in upgrading to rumored changes to the iPhone. That means things like the super thin iPhone 17, that's rumored to launch this fall, and a foldable iPhone that could come

as soon as next year's iPhone 18 cycle. So the way I take it here, Scott, not a lot of enthusiasm necessarily around AI, but plenty around the hardware and new designs. Yeah. And I mean, that's what arguably matters most. Indeed. Getting the upgrades. That one, the phones.

Steve, thank you. Steve Kovach. Eric Woodring, by the way, of Morgan Stanley will be with us on this program tomorrow. So you hear directly from him and we look forward to that. To Christina, parts of Nevelist now for a look at the biggest names moving into this close. Hi, Christina. Hi, Scott.

Well, let's start with Northrop Grunman shares. Worst performer right now on the S&P 500 after the defense firm posted a 49% drop in Q1 earnings and cut its full year outlook. It took almost a half a billion dollar hit from its B-21 aircraft program. As the company tries to ramp up production, shares are down almost 13% right now. Meantime, Pulte Group shares are in the green after the home builder reported a beat on the top and bottom line.

The average home sale price climbed to 6%. So the average price is now $570,000, but was also offset by a 7% decrease in closing volume. Shares though are still up almost 8%, Scott. Okay, Christina, thank you. Come back to you in a bit, Christina Parchenevalos. We're just getting started here. Up next, Treasury partners Rich Saperstein. Tell us where the best opportunities are right now in this market. He'll be here post night next. We have a rally on our hands today and we are rallying into

the close rebounding after that sell off yesterday. My next guest says while he expects more volatility ahead he is finding pockets of opportunity within equities joining me now at post nine Rich Saperstein Treasury

partners. Nice to see you again. Likewise. Where are these opportunities in stocks. Well markets right now are discounting the impact on the global financial situation from all the fuses being lit in Washington and that's obviously the doge's the layoffs and cuts and all the tariffs and everything. So I think we're

gonna have continued volatility. We're gonna see reduced earnings and I think we're going to have continued volatility. We're going to see reduced earnings. And I think that over the next two quarters, there's really no rush to aggressively go into the market and put capital to work. So you literally would advise people to just sit on your hands for a couple months. Just see how things work out. It depends on how invested someone is. So if someone's not in the market, they probably should start putting funds to work now. I'm guessing that most of the people watching you right now are invested in the market to at least some degree. Who knows what their cash levels are

relative to how exposed they are to equities and bonds. But what if you are pretty well invested and you've enjoyed the past couple of years, you didn't sell at all on the downturn that we just had, what do I do then? Rotate into high cash flow generating companies. So for example, in the large cap tech space, there are certain companies that right now have operating cash flows of over close to 10% in the utility space. As you know, I've been an owner of utilities for quite a while. Yeah, but I mean, the Vistra has been one of the most volatile stocks in the market.

Yeah, it has. Vistra is a $40 billion company generating $5.5- six billion dollars in operating cash flow this year. They're gonna buy back stock, they're gonna only be growing. So as an independent power producer, that plus NRG at these levels continue to provide great opportunities. When you're talking about mega caps, like what?

I mean, you're essentially suggesting that you think these stocks have corrected enough? Yes. Even if the economy gets worse? Well, the economy will slow down. There's no question. And if we look at where the market will go, let's say last year the market generated $245 in earnings.

Put a 20 on that. That's roughly a 5,000 bottom on the market. Why would I put 20 on that? Because that's trailing earnings. And then you'll have 26 where a lot of this tariff tantrum and this entire doom loop that we're experiencing will probably be over by then. So I think you'll start looking at increased earnings into 26. So you'll start putting a multiple of let's say 18 on 26 earnings. So in terms of the market this year,

I'd look for Q3 and Q2 to be more turbulence, more resolution of the tariffs, leaving Mexico, Canada, Eurozone, and China for Q4, and some resolution on that. What about things like Munis, which you've told our viewers you like for a long time. Two weeks ago, the worst day in 30 years. I know some would say, well, that's where the opportunity presents itself.

But given what's been happening with the bond market and interest rates, maybe you don't feel as comfortable as I once would have with even something that feels as safe as a muni. We haven't seen these rates in 14 years. And the reason is that there was tax selling for, to pay taxes on April 15th, huge supply coming into the market. This week, 13 billion versus an average of seven billion. Plus, one of Trump's advisors suggested reducing

or eliminating the tax-free nature of munis. And you have volatility in the stock market leading to selling in the bond market. So that's raised the yields on these bonds to unprecedented levels. You'd like to lock in some of the yields that they present. Absolutely, because if the tariffs result in a slowing of the economy,

that will result in lower interest rates and that will raise bond prices because if yields drop on bonds, the prices go up. So as a place to hold out and hang out right now during this volatility plus have a great long-term investment, munis at four and a half, five percent tax-free are exceptionally attractive right here. Are your clients like seemingly everybody else hanging on every headline that moves? Most people are because you you know, that Washington has really dominated the airwaves right now.

And keep in mind that the tariffs today are impacting the market. And unlike 08 or 20, when we had great market declines, we had no way out of this. With the tariffs, it's one guy, he could basically start resolving a lot of these issues, making announcements. You think he's going to do that?

What do you mean we had no way out of the other things? The Fed came to the rescue and so did the government with all the stimulus. But neither looks imminent in this case. Well, in 20, we had no solution for COVID when the market dropped. In 08, the Fed had to come in and really rescue the market. In this case, the Fed does not have to come in. Will Trump resolve this? Well, let's think about this. Europe, you're charging me 10% on my cars. I want to send the caddy over to Europe. It's 10% tariff. We're only charging 2.5. Either charge me 2.5 or I go to 10. Let's just resolve this. It's a binary outcome. It's all math.

So I think these agitating discussions will get resolved unlike what we had clarity on back then. And you don't think that enough damage would have been done before that happens to have a you know a bad market outcome because you essentially have an unavoidable economic situation that you're gonna have to deal with first I'm not worried about the fact that we're losing a reserve currency status that you know foreign capital flight I'm not worried about all these things we're hearing in this doom loop for vortex not worried about any of it Because I'm looking past all this and I'm saying what's the likely outcome and Because I'm looking past all this and I'm saying what's the likely outcome and where should we be deploying capital right now? I'm buying munis and I've got a place to be for when this outcome occurs. All right

Guess that's why I go into Italy soon. Is that you're you? All right. Good to see you. Thanks for being here Great to see you. Rich Saperstein the man with no worries seemingly at all That's not exactly true but I know but you project a very positive face in in what is a very uncertain environment I think I think that's my point. It's uncertain but resolvable that's the key this says there's benefit for both sides to resolve this so there could be some resolution that's announced over the next 30, 60 days and you'll see the reaction in the market. Okay. All right. It's good to see you. Let's see you soon.

Rich Saperstein up next. Bitcoin's on the rise again today. What's behind that bounce? We will tell you coming up. Welcome back. Want to introduce you once again to CNBC's newest subscription streaming product. It is called CNBC Plus and you can stream closing rail on all of your favorite CNBC shows anytime, anywhere and also on demand. Meantime cryptocurrency moving higher yet again today. Tanaya McKeel is here with what continues to drive that bounce. Tanaya. Yeah Scott, Bitcoin reclaiming $90,000 for the first time since early March.

Investors jumping into it for a second day amid continued stock market turbulence and a falling dollar. We saw this ascent beginning yesterday when stocks were selling off. It's two day gain now about 8%. Now, Bitcoin was highly vulnerable to the tariff driven volatility in stocks earlier this month, but it has decoupled from risk assets in the past week. Its 30 day correlation is much stronger than it was a week ago versus its correlation with big cap U.S. equities.

Looking at prices today, Bitcoin actually surpassed gold on a month-to-date basis, up more than 10 percent in April compared to gold's 8 percent gain. And meanwhile, the S&P and dollar index down on the month. It is a broad market rally, so all crypto-related stocks enjoying big gains today, but names tied to Bitcoin specifically, like Strategy, as well as Pure Play miners, Mera and Clean Spark shining for the month, Scott, looking at 20%, 30% gains, whereas AI focused miners have gone in the opposite direction. Scott?

All right, Taneya, thank you very much for that. Taneya, Makayla, up next, we track the biggest movers as we get even closer to the end of this trading session. Christina Parsonavolos is standing by with that. Tell us what you see now. Well, we have two manufacturing giants beating earnings despite tariff challenges. Their strategic moves are sending shares higher today.

Find out how they're keeping investors happy right after this break. We're 15 from the bell. Let's get back now to Christina for the stocks that she's watching. Tell us. Well, let's start with 3M shares, because they're leading the Dow following an earnings beat. This is a materials manufacturer behind brands such as Scotch Tape and Post-It. They said they're bracing for a small impact of profits

from tariffs, but express confidence in their mitigation strategy. The CEO is citing their solid game plan and that they may include shifting, or which would may include shifting more production to the United States to manage cost Shares up almost nine percent GE aerospace also in the green after reported better than expected earnings despite tariff uncertainties management maintained its financial guidance for the year emphasizing its strategy of implementing price increases and

Controlling costs of course to offset tariff impact. Shares up almost 6%, Scott. All right, Christina, thank you. That's Christina Partenovella. Still ahead, we'll tell you what's behind the big bounce in Netflix yet again today. We're back on The Bell right after this break. Coming up next, double dose of energy companies reporting after The Bell. Today we run you through what to watch for inside the market zone. Coming up next.

We're now in the closing the market zone coming up next. We're now in the closing bell market zone. CNBC senior markets commentator Mike Santoli is here to break down these crucial moments of the trading day. Plus Julia Borsten on the record run in Netflix shares and Pippa Stevens is tracking two big energy companies reporting in OT tonight. Mike, I'll turn to you first. What stands out to you the most? I mean as the market just whips around within its range, it's been in for a couple of weeks.

It doesn't really give you an indication of where it's headed or where real information is going to develop in terms of the trade war. What it does reveal is preference and positioning. And today you had relatively vaporous signals that maybe there's gonna be some potential for de-escalation, maybe there's a possibility of kind of creating some kind of declaration of victory

when it's just sort of a de facto retreat by the administration, and the market's willing to pop a little bit on that. The other piece of it is, the S&P has moved perfectly inverse to gold today. As we got those headlines about whatever Besant said yesterday, S&P up, gold down. Gold seems a little bit stretched. It's

been the only real diversifier in this market for weeks. I would look at that as a way of a sort of a pressure valve that might come released. That's exactly what Varun was talking about a little bit earlier. Taking a look at that chart, it really has been straight up and to the right. Right. And it's the only thing, and maybe it's overheated and crowded in the short term, it needs incremental stress from the trade war or bad economic numbers, perhaps, to keep going this way. All right. Julia Borsten watching Netflix for us, which is on a record run here. That's right. Chairs of Netflix hitting a new all-time high today on track for their first close of over $1,000 for shares since late February.

Now take a look at shares of about 5% going into the close at $1,038. They're still a little bit below the all time closing high of $1,058.60 that record set on February 14th. Now today's games come after better than expected earnings on Thursday. And also in a Deutsche Bank note out today saying, quote, Netflix is perhaps the best positioned media stock in our coverage with respect to macroeconomic risk factors.

Now the stock is up over 12% so far this month and up 17% this year. Back over to you. All right, Julia, thank you very much for that. Julia Borstin, Pippa Stevens. Now tell us about these energy companies you're tracking today. Hey Scott, well Enphase is bouncing back alongside the broader market ahead of its report, where tariffs will be front and center.

Enphase's storage segment has been a key growth driver in the company imports its lithium battery cells from China. Now Enphase did move to diversified supply ahead of the tariffs, but China is the largest market supplier, and more broadly the U.S. imports the majority of its solar panels, meaning customer demand could weaken amid higher prices. Meantime, for Baker Hughes, it's all about whether the decline in oil prices will slow upstream spending and therefore the need for the services company. Still, Stiefel reiterating its buy rating ahead of the print, pointing to a strong international revenue mix, as well as its LNG liquefaction segment backlog, stock up 1 percent ahead

of that report. Scott? All right, Pippa, thank you very much. That's Pippa Stevens. Back to Mike Zantoli. Got a little more than two minutes to go here. And then we're going to get pretty heavy in Tesla. Yes.

And you got Alphabet later in the week as well. I think the stock reactions to earnings is sort of the next thing that's going to serve as a little bit of a test or a tell for the market. Coming into today, you actually had marginally positive relative performance by the companies, the stocks of the companies that have reported already. That shows you that we've front loaded a little bit of negative expectations about outlooks, probably in that positive. But the reactions to the big ones obviously is going to have

a lot to do with how it goes from here. I think you can almost be encouraged by the reports themselves without extrapolating to say that we can bank on that. At some point, I also wonder if we're going to be able to retreat to this idea that the U.S. economy is not particularly trade-ric or dependent on global trade flows. As much as it's creating this massive weight on CEO and business and investor and consumer confidence, it's not necessarily the make or break. So if we can get a release on the headline level from incremental escalation, do we have

some kind of a window where we can take some kind of comfort in the fact that maybe actually here and now economic activity is hanging in there. I think that's the obviously sounds like almost too optimistic of you, but it's something that they don't think the market has been fully priced for heading into this phase. I mean, it's supply chain dependent. There's just at this point, little tolerance for higher prices from consumers after everything they've gone through over the past few years. Which is why the clock is ticking on when we can get a really benign de-escalation. Once stuff is in place for a while and businesses have to assume it's going to remain in place

and consumers start to change their spending mix according to it, you're kind of sunk at that point. So I do think you really want people to be able to say, fine, let's allow the administration to find some kind of face saving way to pull back. On the other hand, if you can just throw some leaked progress out there and get the market to rally, maybe they don't need to create any kind of de-escalation progress. Well, mission accomplished at this moment. For a day. Thank you. For a day.

Back to yesterday's high. That's Mike Santoli back with us. We're happy to have him right here at the desk with us today. Dow is going to go out with a thousand point gain as it settles out here in a decidedly green day. I'll see you tomorrow. End of the show. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.