Closing Bell - Closing Bell: Time for Tim Cook to Depart? 7/10/25

Episode Date: July 10, 2025

Longtime analyst Walter Piecyk making a stunning call that Tim Cook needs to go. We discuss with our Steve Kovach and Wedbush’s Dan Ives. Plus, we get a shareholder’s take with Malcolm Ethridge from Capital Area Planning Group. And, Former Fed Vice Chair Richard Clarida maps out his forecast for the fed. 

All right Kelly thanks welcome to closing bell and Scott Wobner live from Post 9 right here at the New York Stock Exchange. This make or break hour begins with suddenly streaking Apple that stocks up seven of the past eight days even as one well-known analyst now says Tim Cook needs to go. We'll discuss and debate that with Dan Ives and Steve Kovac in just a moment. We'll show you the scorecard here with 60 to go in regulation. Speaking of Apple, the tech sector hitting another record high today. It's like a broken record hitting those records, but it is what it is. Several chip names like AMD continue to move higher. The SMH at a 52 week high elsewhere. Several banks are higher ahead of their earnings next week. We'll watch all of those over this final stretch. How about the airlines?

They're ripping. They have been all day long. After Delta gave strong guidance, that stock, along with United and American Airlines, having one of their best days in a very long time. It does take us to our talk of the tape, that stunning call about Tim Cook. Longtime analyst Walter Pichek made it on this very network last night,

and it's been the talk of the town ever since. Let's bring in our resident expert reporter, Kovach along with star analyst Dan Ives of Wedbush who is here with me at Post 9. Steve Kovach you've been critical. You've been critical of Apple. You've been critical of their missteps in AI. You haven't and wouldn't of course in your roll call for Tim Cook to be ousted However, what do you think about Walter Picheck doing just that?

This is not some far-off blogger from no who knows where this man's been on the street for a long Time and has covered this area for a very long time Yeah, and he's also giving an argument for Cook to leave on a very long and old argument, which is Apple needs a product guy versus the operator. And look, I've been covering this company for so long, Scott, and I've heard this the entire time throughout Tim Cook's tenure,

that he is too focused on operations, Apple needs a product leader, it needs someone who is coming up with the next product after the iPhone, whatever that might be. We've heard that again and again and again. And just look at his record so far. I mean, the stock up 1400% throughout his entire career. The idea that he is managing the geopolitical tensions

so well with China and the United States and the tariff issue going on, doing the best that anyone can and expanding manufacturing out in India. And I've heard this over and over again. Last time we went through the cycle, Scott, was when Johnny Ive left in 2019. And yes, I know there's the open AI factor

that's coming into play now and things like that. But Apple has, again under Tim Cook shown that it can get beyond that and there you go There are the superlatives right there market cap up eight hundred percent two trillion dollars worth of iPhone sold at stock performance 1,400 percent it speaks for itself Sure, the last six months have been tough. Sure. It's underperforming most of its peers. Sure It has a lot of work to do in AI, but as I'm sure Dan is gonna tell you here in a minute, it's still the early innings of artificial intelligence, and Apple does have the time to make up for it.

To Steve's point, Pajic said, and I quote, "'Apple now needs a product-focused CEO. Missing on AI could fundamentally alter the company's long-term trajectory and ability to grow at all. This is a pivotal moment for Apple. It's time for more disruptive change, not less. It is a pivotal moment, right?

A hundred percent. I mean, look, me and you have talked about it, especially the last 18 months, they've had black eye moments. If you think about WWDC, everything that they promised, they basically had a backtrack on last year. This year, as we do, was the snooze fest, a yonder. And you have this AI revolution going through. And it does feel like in this AI highway,

going 100 miles an hour, OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, that Apple's at a rest stop, sitting there, just watching it, drinking lemonade. So the frustration- That doesn't paint a very great picture, Dan. And I think to me, I disagree with what Walter's saying about Cook needs to go. I agree from an M&A perspective, this is time for Cook to rip the Band-Aid off. We talk about perplexity. That is the no-brainer

deal. And I would say if Cook stays on the treadmill when it comes to AI. This would impact, I think, his long-term legacy. I view him as a hall-famed CEO, but it would definitely be, I think, it is a pivotal moment. Okay, it's funny that you use a sports analogy, because I've always thought that the criticism here was a little bit funny. And that in many regards, it was a no-win

following an iconic legend like Steve Jobs. I almost look at it like and you're a sports guy you're a baseball guy Joe DiMaggio Mickey Mantle Joe DiMaggio 325 325 career batting average won nine World Series. Who took over after Joe DiMaggio Mickey Mantle. Was he a slouch. Was he Joe DiMaggio. I mean he only batted to 98 for

his career and he only won seven World Series. What are you going to tell me that Mickey Mantle didn't do his job well. And you're talking about two of the legends but I'll add to Cook's delivered fifteen hundred percent returns and he's a CEO. And I'll have that make legends, but I'll add to that. Well, Tim Cook still delivered 1,500% returns

since he's a CEO. And I'll add. What does that make him? And I'll add to that. He is the Mickey Mantle of tech, but Mickey Mantle went through periods where he had different bats, and now as parts of his success. If you look at Cook, what he needs to do here,

when it comes to AI, we're not talking about anything else except for in the Apple ecosystem. With AI, it's not gonna happen internally. For the first time we talk about since Beats 2014, three billion, they have to change. And I think the frustration is building. And I continue to believe that you'll not have the status quo. Cook will lead Apple for the next, what I believe, four or five years. But AI, it's a pivotal time for Cook to get off that treadmill. Steve Kovach, I mean, at what point does he have to prove, that is Tim Cook, that he has what it takes to take Apple into that next level,

to cement his legacy as a great CEO, one who can deliver what Walter Picheck says needs to be delivered. Yeah, it's next year. It's 2026, Scott. And that's when they said, okay, we're gonna take our time, fix the Siri update. It wasn't up to snuff.

That's why we had to delay it this year. And they're kicking the can until next year. So between now and sometime next year, let's just call it WWDC of 2026, June of 2026. By then, if they don't announce then, then people will have to start to worry. But like we talked about a couple of weeks ago, Scott, and you also mentioned the tear the stock has been on

over the last several days. Part of that is because what ignited that, or the catalyst for that was this Bloomberg report that Apple might just kind of give up on building its own large language model and instead look for a partner and license the technology from Anthropic or OpenAI. I'm gonna guess after Grok's week, not Grok on the list,

but there is a chance there for them to use technology that's already proven that they can do securely and fulfill all those privacy promises they do and deliver on the user-facing stuff that they said Siri is gonna be able to do. And I think that is why we've seen, or at least part of why we've seen so much of the optimism. We're leaving out tariffs too though.

So much of the reason of this poor stock performance, Scott, too, is because of the tariff issue, which is largely out of Tim Cook's control. They've done a decent job at managing and moving production to India, flying all those iPhones over to the United States to dodge the worst of the tariffs and things like that. They're still going to take a $900 million charge this quarter because of all the tariff issues. But beyond that, things are very unclear. I will note with all the words from Donald Trump's against Tim Cook and sniping at him

for the couple weeks there, the president never really followed through on his promise to tariff iPhones even more. That was supposed to happen at the end of June, never materialized. And by the way, Apple never said it's going to be making iPhones here in the US before then too so you know you can Read it that way to that baby. There's a game of chicken going on between the White House and Cupertino I mean, it's it's good points that that's the rings up I mean there are things that have been out of out of Tim Cook's control It's like he got hit with a fastball

Yeah from the from the president in terms of the tariffs and the impact that it was gonna have on the China business, which was already a drag for, you could make another argument that those reasons were out of his control too. Great players go through slumps. Yep, and he's, I'd say, definitely going through a slump, but the reason I still believe he's the Mickey Manil of tack is because-

If you start writing that, you better give it credit. And I will... I know how you roll... I actually will give you credit. You start calling him that tomorrow. Yeah, so actually I'm gonna give you credit for it. Okay, thank you. So as the Mickey Manil of tech,

it's about the consumer AI revolution, Steve hits on it, we'll go through Cupertino, but now is the time to make sure you don't let the biggest monetization opportunity that we've seen in 40, 50 years, the fourth industrial revolution. Cupertino has a look at that from the outside in. Cook knows he'll read the room. I believe this is going to be a big change here.

We're going to see a deal soon. All right. Thanks for being here. It's an interesting story and certainly gotten a lot of talk, as you've noticed, this afternoon on this network. It's Dan Ives and Steve Kovac thanks to you as well. It's bringing a shareholder now Malcolm Ethridge. What are your thoughts on what Walt Picheck had to say on CNBC? Yes Scott I'm in alignment with Ives on this one. I think

that yes there is some validity to the conversation. We should at least be talking about it right. Maybe it is time after a decade to talk about who's gonna be next up. But I think that realistically with a CFO departing last year, a COO now stepping down this year, you can't just dismantle the executive ranks of an organization this large and not have any meaningful drop off. And I think realistically for me as a shareholder, letting go of Tim Cook here would be tantamount, it would be really good reason for me to a shareholder, letting go of Tim Cook here would be tantamount, would

be really good reason for me to be selling the stock. And I think a lot of others would be in the same camp because it's just too much disruption all at once. For a company that we've already acknowledged, it's significantly behind where the wave seems to be going and really needs to be doing something to catch up. So what is that something? If Walter says that they need disruptive change, more of it, what is that something if if Walter says that they need disruptive change more of it What is that is that an?

Acquisition the likes of which they haven't been comfortable doing in the past that's disruptive That is being disruptive to what you're normally used to doing I Don't even think it's singular acquisition. I think it's several. I think that the reason I say that, I know perplexity is the one that everyone's floating right now makes perfect sense to replace Siri and be able to come into that Apple ecosystem and immediately make the search conversation a lot more clear. But I think that realistically not only does Apple need to be acquiring its way into having an AI solution to chat GPT and Anthropic and everyone else. It also has to aqua hire designers who are capable of figuring out what's the next wave gonna look like because as we've

heard from several smart brains in Silicon Valley already the next generation of AI tools is not gonna be a device that's in our pocket it's not gonna be a handheld or anything that sits on our desk. It'll be some other kind of wearable. And so figuring out how to bring in the talent capable of driving that conversation is really gonna be important for Apple as well. And so I don't think that just one acquisition is gonna make it, but at a time when their best mind

in AI is already being stolen away, it's really time to put that capital to work and not be trying to financially engineer their way into growth with a hundred billion dollar buyback and thinking that that's going to be the thing that keeps people willing to pay 30 times next year's earnings. How long are you willing to wait? So I don't really know the answer to that question as clearly as you asked it, simply because I believe that Apple will have some sort of a solution that gets at that

declining revenue from iPhone sales. I know that right now the only thing that's positive about this company is they've got double digit growth in the services side of the business and that might even be going away if the $20 billion that comes from Google suddenly disappears. But I really believe that a company this large, a $3 trillion tech tech company has been a leader for this long has to have some sort of answer and so it's really tough for me to imagine a world other than getting rid of the CEO because there's just not too many people walking around Cupertino California who are capable of stepping in and taking over the helm of

a company this large. I just don't see a reason for me to be selling the shares right now especially as I mentioned to you in past conversations. I think we've reached peak pessimism, and I'm not really seeing any downgrades of all these analysts who have these negative things to say about Apple outwardly. The consensus price target, last I checked, was somewhere around $2.30. So there really isn't a lot of motion happening. There's not a lot of people putting their money where their mouth is, so to speak. It's just us bemoaning out loud that we really wish this company would get it together.

It's interesting the way you talk about the scarcity of talent. Was Mickey Mantle Joe DiMaggio? No, he was not. Was Mickey Mantle still Mickey Mantle in the Hall of Fame? Oh, yes he was. Malcolm, thanks. We'll see you soon.

Malcolm Etheridge. Tech, speaking of, hitting another new high today as the market looks to extend its record run, let's welcome in Dan Greenhouse. He's chief strategist for Solace Alternative Asset Management. It's good to have you on. Tech trade just doesn't feel like it's going to let up anytime soon for longer than a minute. I mean, the minute it does, it just picks right up again. The question, and I think Jason Snipes

touched on this on the halftime show, like why would it let up? And again, tech isn't what I specialize in for the millionth time, but the story remains in place. The CapEx spend remains in place, the demand remains in place. Now you've got VO3 videos all over the internet. There's just no reason, I think, for investors in this space

to feel that the narrative that has been in place for two or three years now is challenged really at all. If you watch the Halftime Show, which you obviously did since you're quoting from it, Josh Brown made the argument as well that people are making too much of this idea that this record-setting rally is too concentrated and largely concentrated in large-cap tech. Now it's been in large-cap stocks, generally speaking.

What about that notion? Do you agree with him? Yeah, well listen, I think that there's two answers to the question. The first is, I was someone who thought that the rally would diversify, so to speak, but the strength of the AI story has been such that the names in the space and the ancillary or secondary names, if you will,

just are, they're so big, relative to the rest of the market, mathematically they're gonna do most of the heavy lifting. That said, look at a chart of BlackRock or State Street. Well, that's what I'm saying, it has diversified. Yes, but- I mean, industrials are, I think industrials hit another record high today. I think industrials are leading the-

Financials have been trading at a record high, but it's been a big stock rally. Well, it's been a big stock rally across sectors in general. There's that, but I would also say, listen, the S&P is now, we're just shy of 6,300. We're up, the index is up almost 7% for the year. Six sectors are beating the market year to date.

Five sectors are trailing. Only two are down as we know, healthcare and energy. So that's pretty diverse, six sectors up, five sectors down, but on the individual name basis, you'd like to see roughly 250 names up, 250 names beating the index, 250 names trailing the index. You're a little short of that, but I think to Josh's point,

and I would echo it to some degree, assuming I heard what he said and I was eating lunch when he was talking so who knows but I think there is too much being made of well it's not brought up there's always you and I are the same age there are well I think I'm a little older than you or you moisturize much better than I but but for the entirety of our I didn't like where you were going with it when you started so just a very youthful a youthful 30 you are. So for our entire careers, people have been lamenting the stock market's too expensive,

too concentrated. Remember the nothing but Apple, the NBA market. There's been so many narratives that argued the market couldn't go higher. And here we are, 13% annualized, 15% annualized for a a decade now and all of those narratives have fallen by the wayside So to that point I just think the market is too concentrated is the latest in a long iteration of arguments against rally We're about to enter earnings season. Are we going to come out of earnings season? Almost justifying why the market has been so concentrated and I could say that from both a tech and why the market has been so concentrated. And I could say that from both the tech and financials

and those, the caterpillars of the world too. But how concentrated could the market be if you just listed three separate sectors as being leaders, industrials, financials, and technology, if you will, staples actually, by the way. Well, I mean, again, if you pulled up the market caps of the entire S&P 500, you would see an extraordinarily divergent move, I think,

between the biggest market cap stocks versus the smaller ones within that cohort. Sure. But again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but it is what it is. Well, listen, you would rather everybody being up an equivalent amount, let's have socialism for the market. Everyone's up 50%, you know, year to day, the market's up 50%, that would be great. But that's not gonna happen. We're gonna steal some market cap,

we'll take some market cap from Nvidia, and we'll distribute it down the cap space. From each according to their market cap. But we're completely sidetracked, Scott. But listen, I disagree. Those big names have higher growth rates, they're larger, infinitely larger, obviously. They're going to mathematically drag the market higher. But I disagree, those big names have higher growth rates, they're larger, infinitely larger, obviously, they're going to mathematically drag the market higher,

but I disagree, beneath the headline, there are a whole host of stocks and sectors to which you can point that are going up that investors can be associated with. Do you see any complacency anywhere? Do you look at a VIX, which is now under 16, and say, I mean, look, Jamie Dimon was talking again today about the possibility that rates are gonna be much higher than people think.

And that there's too much complacency simply regarding that issue in and of itself. Now I know when Jamie Dimon says something, people are like, oh, he says, oh, he says this and whatever, not much of what he says has come to fruition, doesn't matter. He raises a good point. Yeah.

And by the way, I mean, you should listen to what somebody like Jamie Diamond says when he talks about yields. Jamie Diamond has access to information. I don't. I would concede that point as the CEO of the best bank in the country, the best run bank. Are people complacent? Probably right now in the short term, as someone who has been relatively bullish on the tariff story over the last couple of months, I think you are now entering a period where some of that story is obviously coming back to the fore. The Brazil story yesterday, although I think there's probably a legal argument why that

won't hold. There's an IEPA case at the end of July that's going to be heard about whether the president can do any of this. But in the meantime, you've got the sectoral tariffs, the 232s, the 301s, et cetera. It might get a little choppy here in the short term, but to your point about earnings season, Delta, yes, Delta this morning, obviously, you mentioned the airlines earlier, and Costco gave its monthly update. Costco sales in the US were up 5.5%, maybe a little shy of expectations, but nothing to sneeze at.

I've heard nothing this morning on Squawk Box, someone from the Bank of America Institute talking about the credit card data was on, arguing that the consumer, from a credit card standpoint, nothing is meaningfully different. So- Did you do any work today, or did you just watch CNBC all day? This is like at six in the morning.

And by the way, I'm trying to drive viewership, Scott. Thank you. Thank you. No, we appreciate you. What about the morning and by the way, I'm trying to drive viewership Scott. Thank you. Thank you No, we appreciate you. What about the Fed is the Fed gonna? I have an intern watching all day And it tells me gonna cut rates this year and how many times I think you should probably expect two cuts this year I mean I get why Jamie Dimon is arguing what he's arguing and far be it for me to argue with him But my expectation is you're gonna get two cuts this year by the fall it for me to argue with him, but my expectation is you're going to get two cuts this year. By the fall, assuming the tariff data bleeds through the way that I think it will and always have thought it will, I don't think that's going to be a sufficient impediment to getting a cut in the fall.

And then once you have cut once, you're probably going to want to cut again this year to get it out of the way. And then sometime early next year, you will have the prospect of a new Fed share, eventually a new Fed share. All of the contenders from Besant on down have basically made the case for lower interest rates and so I think a new Fed share is going to come in. There's probably enough wiggle room on the board to get a couple of rate cuts next year. So you're talking let's just set the over under at a hundred basis points of reductions between now and the summer of next year. And that's enough.

You don't want any more than that because then that would maybe signal that something was wrong, they had to do it. Yeah, well listen, I don't think you need more than that. I think you could probably argue, my original argument was you might get stuck at four and a half and I think obviously we have been stuck at four and a half. Now, with all the new data,

the slowing in the labor market, albeit modest, I don't think you need rates at four and a half percent. Remember, all the new data, the slowing in the labor market, albeit modest, I don't think you need rates at four and a half percent. Remember, again, I know Tom Lee was on here making the same argument I've made for some time. Tariffs are taxed, they're not inflation, which is a whole other conversation, but outside of that, please. No, he's super bullish.

Tom Lee is super bullish? What I mean, there are people who are throwing out like 7 7000 is realistic. My price target coming into the year. I know, but there was a no doubt today where someone was talking about five to 10% more. 10% more is 7000. 10% more is 7000. Yeah. By the way, I only asked that because I did not watch the Tom Lee interview, despite your assumption that I'm watching CNBC all day. Listen, if I had my way, I'd be on air all day but anyway. Believe me we know. The viewers

demand it but 10% is not is that out of the realm of possibility? I mean again we're up 7% for the year if by the spring of next year you're up 10% from current levels is that a particularly shocking amount of gains especially when you have double way into the double digit growth rates for the largest names? But let's, the Nasdaq's up 40% since the April low. I mean it has been the the V-est of V-shaped recoveries that we've ever seen. And the S&P is up called 35, 40% year of year, which is a extended level of gains that usually is followed by a slowdown in appreciation. And last time I checked, 10% appreciation

was slower than 30% appreciation. There's your V-shaped recovery right there. Yeah, it's been a heck of a rally. Extraordinary in three months. It's been a heck of a rally, to Josh's point earlier, probably not as broad as you would like, but sufficiently strong to drive the market higher. And I would also make the final anecdote that I always use, which is when my mom gets her

Charles Schwab account and she opens it up and sees that her net worth or her investment account went up 10% this quarter, she doesn't call me up and go, how much of that is concentrated in the mag-7? She doesn't care. The spiders are up. And for many, many, many, many Americans, that's a determining factor. We'll leave it there.

I'll let you run, get back in front of your television set and we'll see you soon. That's Dan Greenhouse from Solace once again. Christina Partsanevelis joins us now for a look at the biggest names moving into the close. Christina. Well, Dan, briefly mention it, but even if there was a travel slowdown

throughout the first half of the year, Delta management doesn't appear worried. The airline is confident sales will pick up in the third quarter and reinstated its full year profit outlook. CEO Ed Bastion, totaling our fill a bow that he's seeing more clarity in corporate travel. High price seats were also boomed. Premium revenue grew 5% year over year. That's why you're seeing Delta shares up almost 12%.

And because of that confidence in the near term, those results really boosting other domestic carriers. United, American, Southwest, all on your screen. United up almost 15 percent. Just on these strong words coming from one leader. Scott? All right. Christina, thank you very much.

Christina, parts of the Netherlands. We're just getting started. Up next, Bitcoin bouncing to a fresh record high. We discuss how to play that space coming up We're live at the New York Stock Exchange. You're watching closing bell on CNBC We're back. Calimose Investments ringing the closing bell today in honor of its new fund offerings, one of which says it offers investors 100% downside protection from Bitcoin's volatility. Here to explain is Calimose Investments President John Kadounis.

Good to see you. Good to see you, Scott. Congratulations. You're ringing the bell today, which is always a great honor here at the New York Stock Exchange. Let's start on the Bitcoin thing. Okay. 100% downside protected Bitcoin.

How does that work? Yeah, so we're really proud of the team at Kalamos. We've been able to make the first 100% protected Bitcoin. And the way it works is if you buy the Bitcoin it's in the ETF form so it's very liquid and you get a percent of the cap rate so if Bitcoin goes up like the last one we do in a series we had one come out just last week you get 10% of the upside and if it falls to the negative territory Scott you're you're you're fine if as long as you keep it for the year and if it falls to negative territory, Scott, you're fine as long as you keep it

for the year and it rolls over. It's been really, really hot. We've also adjusted, we've done 90% protected where you get north of 24%, you get 80% protected and those are in the low 40s percent of the upside. So it's a great way for people, some of the older people that don't, are afraid of the volatility. Look, Bitcoin has been the number one performing asset in the last 14 years.

There's no denying that. It's probably been one of the most volatile too. It's also been one of the, so that's why we invented this product, so to bring to market for people that don't not want to have that volatility. They can be in this product, know that their principles are protected, and not have to deal with the ups and downs that Bitcoin has had.

The timing speaks to your continued bullishness about Bitcoin, I would assume. Is that right? Well, we are. But I think it's more of a product for people to, look, the United States, I think there's about 14% of the population has bought Bitcoin, the world is even less, I think 6% is the number.

So there's a lot of room for growth in the product. And as it becomes more of a mainstream, and you see this administration really really being advocates of it. I think this is a good entry point and on ramp for people that are a little bit less risk averse. At Calimos we're risk managers, we've been doing this for close to 50 years and this is just another type of product that we're launching.

We did S&P, NASDAQ, Russell, in a similar matter, and then when legislation was approved, we were able to do Bitcoin. You also launched with JP Morgan, what you say is the first ever auto-callable product. Well, I'm not embarrassed to tell you, I've never heard of that before I was preparing for this segment.

What is that? An auto-callable product? What do our viewers and your potential investors in it need to know? All right, so the auto-callable product is, it's part of the structured product world. And there's actually been 100 billion last year issued of this type of product.

Close to 200 in total structured product world. And in the past, you had to have a minimum 250,000 buy-in, and we're launching the first ETF where you can do that. Now what is this auto callable? JP Morgan is doing the swaps for us, so they're partnering us with the swaps. And Mcube has done the index for us, which is very, very important part of the analysis. So what it is, it's a product. Think of it as a bond that gives you a coupon.

It pays out monthly. We launched it. It's 14.7% is the coupon. So you get in that on a monthly basis. And the only thing that you're worried about is if the market falls, equity market falls more than 40%, then it might eat into some of your coupon and then possibly your principal,

depending on when it strikes. But we diversify the product by having over 52 all auto-callable notes. So every Friday, we match up and see if that Friday, the market's above a decline of 40%, it keeps going. It sounds like you're trying to, but you're also trying to, as you said at the top, you're trying to give access to certain types of products

that typically weren't available to everyday investors, only the super high net worth. This is what they call democratization of products, right Scott? And so we've done a lot of this at Calimos, and this is a lot of wealthy, really high net worth individuals, billionaires, use all the callables in their portfolios, and they get charged a lot of money because they're structured notes to do this you know points at a time where us is just a few basis points and it's it's what the advisors call the easy button you don't have to issue all the time

because we've done it versus an index and the swap and it's all contained in the ctf. All right well it's the first time we've ever talked about it on this program so i'm glad we're educating our viewers and frankly educating me too. Well hopefully we'll be hearing a lot more about it. Before I let you go real quick, because I know you've got to do your thing, the market, you like the market here at these record levels? I do. I still like the market.

I think there's room for upside. I think that your earnings are good, but there's still a little bit more room in the earnings things. I think all, a lot of the bad stuff, potentially event risk, is gone outside of global war, which I'm hoping is not an issue. But the tax bill's passed. I think the big thing with China in terms of the tariffs, that's been under control. And those are the two things that were really, really bothering me.

We got potential Fed cuts, which is going to really be helping the market. We've got potential people, 7 trillion supposedly, of assistance coming into the United States. So I'm really, really positive about the market. We'll leave it there. You do your thing up there on the on the balcony We'll see you soon. John Koudounis appreciate thanks Kalamos here on closing bell up next speaking of Fed cuts former Fed vice chair Richard

Clarida he maps out his forecast for the Fed. When are they gonna cut when's the first one coming? We'll get his vote next To cut or not to cut? That is the question facing the Federal Reserve. We know where President Trump stands as he continues to hammer Chair Powell for being too slow to lower rates. For more, let's bring in former Fed Governor Richard Clareta. He's now global economic advisor at PIMCO. Good to see you again. Welcome back.

Good to be with you. Why shouldn't Fed Chair Powell listen to the President? Why shouldn't they cut at their first opportunity coming up later this month? Well, I think the President and each of us is entitled to express an opinion on the Fed. I don't think it's really about listening. I think they're looking at the data.

The committee is, there's a range of views from the June dots. We know that seven folks will be happy not to cut at all this year, but 12 more, including the chair, think they probably will. So I think they're in wait and see mode, and that's where we'll be at the July meeting. I mean, it's not like the president's on an island by himself is the only one suggesting this. Fed Governor Waller says the Fed can lower rates because the short-term rate is still

quote pretty restrictive. So we're just too tight, he said. I think Governor Waller and also Governor Bowman, or now Vice Chair Bowman has made a similar point. You know, standard monetary policy rules, including the ones I've worked on, would indicate a somewhat lower level for the federal funds rate. So I think right now, and Chair Powell himself recently indicated that if they weren't really focused on the risky case of the tariffs, they might be cutting.

So I think they're waiting to get some more information is the way I'd assess it. So you agree that the Fed's too tight? Well, I certainly agree that once they have a better sense of the way that the tariffs are going to work through the economy, that I think the case for cutting rates will be pretty clear, yes. Well, I mean, 25 basis points in July is not going to make a difference either way. So why not just do it? You know, you throw a little bone to the president and those who say, well, you should, including some on your own committee, like I said, Waller and Bowman, maybe.

So you know, you deal with that and then you see. You haven't hurt yourself by going 25 in July, have you? Sure. Again, you know, I'm here to talk about what I think they, what they will do. And I think that, you know, from what we've indicated, heard from the committee, I think that including the chair, I think they'll be open to considering that. But it looks looks like it'll be in the fall. How many do you think we'll get starting in the fall?

If you say if I'm gathering, you believe September would be the first one? Yes, that that that that would that Yes, that would make sense. I think that, look, the dots have some value, and right now the dots are showing that 12 folks on the committee think that two cuts will be appropriate, and I think that's a good starting point. Again, policy is restrictive

according to standard policy rules and so I think that'll be the first the first thing they'll be looking at. It's funny you say the DOTS have quote some value there some say now they have no value and that they shouldn't even be doing these that the outlook or the projections. Do you have a counter to that? I think it is useful for any central bank to provide useful information on its intentions. The challenge with the DOTS in some cases is that they don't provide particularly useful information.

I think we are at a point now when they do provide the information that most of the members of the committee do think that it's likely that a cut will be appropriate. I think that's useful information to be into the markets. Yes. Richard, we'll talk to you soon. I've got to go get some news that's breaking now. I'll see you soon. Richard Clarida, joining us once again.

We do have some news out of Washington. Megan Casella has it for us. Megan. Hey, Scott, I can report that Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang is set to be at the White House this afternoon to meet with the President sometime today. That's according to a person familiar. The White House official is not immediately responding to me for requests for comment. I also couldn't get details on exactly what the two men will be meeting about or who requested

the meeting, how it came about. But it does come just a few hours after the president tweeted or posted on true social about Nvidia today saying Nvidia is up 47% since Trump tariffs among other things so tariffs export controls business with China and Huang's upcoming trip to China A lot for the two men to talk about Scott All right, Megan Kasella with that news and we'll wait for that meeting and see what comes of it Megan Thanks up next we're tracking the biggest movers as we head into the close. We're back to Christina. For that, what do you see?

Well, I'm seeing a serial giant getting swallowed up in a massive multi-billion dollar deal while a rare earth miner striking gold with a Pentagon investment. You never know what you're gonna get these stock movers next. Now we're 15 from the bell back to Christina for the stocks that she's watching. Top of your list is what? It's an interesting one.

W.K. Kellogg shares soaring after Ferrero agreed to buy the cereal giant in a $3.1 billion deal. It's the latest acquisition for the privately owned chocolate maker after they acquired Nestle's U.S. candy business and Halo top owner Wells Enterprises. WK Kellogg shares are up, whoa, almost 31%, the best day since its spin off back in 2023. MP Materials, also a huge mover today on news that the Pentagon is buying $400 million of preferred stock in the rare earth miner, making them the largest shareholder in the company. MP Materials owns the one and only operational rare earth mine here in the United States

and so that's why it's such a big deal. Shares are up about 51%. Huge movers in this little segment. Scott? Alright Christina, thank you. Still ahead, the SMH hitting a 52 week high. We'll tell you what's driving that bounce in chips coming up. The bell's coming right back.

We're now in the closing Bell Market Zone CNBC senior markets commentator Mike Santoli's here to break down these crucial moments of the trading day plus more record highs for the chips today Christina Partsenevalos is back with those moves and Courtney Reagan looking ahead to Levi's earnings those are out after the Bell. Mike we're looking at a record close for well we're right there so we were above it now we're just below it for the S&P but we do have one still for the NASDAQ

and it's going to go right down to the wire. I mean the market's not exactly making any missteps this week even though it came into the week a little bit stretched a little bit overheated. You have more small cap outperformance today.

I think weekly jobless claims, maybe Delta's guidance has people feeling, okay, we're back in this zone where the economy's hanging in there, maybe even perking up a little bit because of the capex cycle, and we're within sight of the Fed probably gonna do a cut. Waller's dovish comments today, it did seem to give it a little

bit of a boost momentarily, but then it was like, well, that's not really a new story that some people think July cut. It almost doesn't matter now. The market's made its peace with no July rate cut. We're close enough to September. The economy's not crying out for it. Financial conditions are loose. Bitcoin making a new high. A lot of things are confirming that we're back into risk on. And now the question is, you know, are we emptying the tank for this phase of the move? I keep saying that. Yeah, the SMH is certainly a helper today, Christina.

Yeah, no doubt. The Van Ecke SMH you just talked about just hit an all-time high. It's on track for its seventh straight week of gains. Sure, Nvidia does get all the headlines for crossing the $4 trillion market cap, but it's not just about one name. AMD is getting a big boost after HSBC doubled its price target to $200, saying the company is back in the AI game. Analysts think its new AI chips could rival

Nvidia as an even command a pricing premium. Meanwhile, Micron, you can see AMD is going to close probably 4% higher. Micron riding high too. Deutsche Bank just upped its target to a buy pointing to a surging demand for high bandwidth memory, which is a critical piece for AI performance. And that's where Micron is a major supplier, shares up a half a percent. And let's take a look at TSMC, the world's biggest contractor for chip contractors, I should say. Revenue surging 40% in the first half of the year thanks to AI they just released their June numbers shares though trending a little bit lower- and then

lastly also Goldman Sachs initiating semi caps today they're saying that they're in the mid cycle and they think stable revenue could continue through twenty twenty six- and that's an example KLA lamb up about 1% but the bottom line

Scott is that investors really are betting right now that the AI chip race is widening, so it's not just about Nvidia and it's lifting the entire sector. All right, Christina, thank you. Courtney Reagan, tell us about Levi's. Thanks, Scott, yeah, so Levi is looking

to beat expectations again, because it does so more often than it doesn't. But we'll have to see if the uncertain macro environment will change that for today's results when we get them in overtime. So analysts are predicting that the denim makers revenues will fall 5% over last year, which is well below the company's guidance

that they gave of growth up to 1% or flat to 1% on earnings of 13 cents per share. That is at the high end of Levi's own forecast. They had guided a range of 11 to 13 cents per share that is at the high end of Levi's own forecast. They had guided a range of 11 to 13 cents. Investors want to know about tariff pressures, but Levi's has said in the past that it only expects a minimal impact on its second quarter margins. Still, though, it is also said it is considering selective price increases nonetheless. B of A tells its clients that Levi Strauss is well positioned

to manage potential US tariffs because of its high international exposure. It's a global denim seller, minimal China to US sourcing and a pretty diversified supply chain as well as some strong brand equity. Shares of Levi are up about 37% since the last report compared to a 24% gain in the retail ETF, the XRT. We'll have to see what we get. Yes, we will, Court, thank you very much for that. That's Courtney, Regan, Mike, I'll turn back to you. To your point, maybe about Delta and its guidance,

discretionary is leading today. Now, I know Tesla's up, whatever, it's a big piece of it, but it's up 1% as a group, so maybe that is fueling some cash into that area of the market. It is. Yes, and even the equal way to consumer discretion is up 1.2%, so it's not really just Tesla, it is also the travel names, and it's funny because it's all kind of where your perception was beforehand, because Delta's guidance for the full year is way below what the

street was at at the end of the first quarter. But stock got killed, it's come back halfway, and I think everyone's realizing that there's a kind of a steady-state maintenance level of spending at minimum that's going on that's going to be able to tide us over while we wait. Bank stocks up 1% today as a group is another sign that you're still getting these clues that the market is getting reassurance somewhere globally about just the underlying macro. Is it anticipation of a rate cut? Is it just the fact that employment's fine and it hasn't really had a payback phase?

Whatever it is, the market is in that mode of basically being priced for a pretty decent outcome. I think on the macro front, on the Fed front, and probably on tariffs. The insensitivity to hawkish tariff headlines makes sense to me because it's happening in a context of we kind of know this is going to be a localized effect where we're going to just look on the bright side and assume a walk back. Or maybe August 1st is too far to worry about right now. We've got some strong season hotel wins at last, at least another week or so. Good stuff, Mike.

Thank you. We'll see you tomorrow. It's Mike Santoli. So the Nasdaq's going to get its record close, and the S&P needs to get to 62.79.35. We'll see how things settle.