Closing Bell - Manifest Space: Ax-2 Splashdown with Axiom Space Director of Human Spaceflight & Ax-2 Mission Commander Peggy Whitson 6/15/23

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

Fresh off her fourth flight to orbit and having spent 675 days in space, record-breaking astronaut Peggy Whitson joins Morgan to discuss her latest mission and re-entry to the International Space Station. Previously serving as the first woman to command the ISS, she returned as the Mission Commander for Axiom Space second-ever human spaceflight. Whitson dives into her return to space, the commercialization of earth orbit, and the 10 years it took to become an astronaut.

Three, two, one, engines full power, and liftoff Falcon 9, go Axiom. Peggy Whitson is America's most experienced astronaut. She now has spent 675 days in space and is just back from her fourth flight to orbit. She was the first woman to command the International Space Station, the only to do so twice, and holds the record for most spacewalks by a female astronaut, 10. The list of accomplishments goes on, but now the retired NASA astronaut is adding another. First female commander of a private spaceflight, the recently completed Axiom 2 mission. I like to think of it as we are changing the evolution of the idea that humanity belongs in space and we have a purpose to be there. So that's to me that that's changing a bit

from where I've come from in the past and I'm excited about that. The private 10-day AX2 mission was carried out by SpaceX with a four-person crew, including the first Saudi woman in space, traveling to and from the ISS via a Dragon capsule. The AX-2 crew conducted more than 20 research experiments and served as research subjects themselves before splashing down off the Florida coast on May 30th. Freedom has returned home with the AX-2 crew. SpaceX C splashdown and mains cut. At this time, you are go for procedure. It was Axiom's second human spaceflight, as the startup uses data from these trips

to help inform development of its commercial space station, which it's working with NASA to deploy. Whitson is Axiom's director of human spaceflight. On this episode, she discusses her return to space, the commercialization of Earth orbit, and her painstaking path to becoming an astronaut in the first place. I'm Morgan Brennan and this is Manifest Space. Let's talk about the mission, what you accomplished, and what it was to do this as a private astronaut. Yeah, no, it was definitely very different for me doing this as a private astronaut.

Of course, I'd love to go into space. It's like my second home. And so I wanted to go. But being a part of this changing era of space is really exciting to me. And that's what made this flight special for me. And I like to think of it as we are changing the evolution of the idea that humanity belongs in space. And we have a purpose to be there. So that's to me that that's changing a bit from where I've come from in the past. And I'm excited about that. The AAX-2 mission was really exciting

because we demonstrated that we can increase the access for private and government astronauts. And by the way, they spoke to literally millions of young children around the world, inspiring them in this new era of space to hopefully look forward to future careers in science, technology, engineering, and math. And then the number two objective of the mission was to increase access of space for scientists as well. In particular, we did one study looking at cancer cells and treatments, potential treatments, and that will help benefit medical therapies as we develop them here on Earth. So I'm very proud to have been a part of the Axiom 2 mission and being a part of Axiom Space to make that happen, increase that access for humanity.

I have so many questions for you. The first one, the fact that you're back at the space station, it was an eight-day mission, but you're back at the space station. You're somebody who's commanded the space station. You've been there multiple times before. What was that like to return and to return as essentially, I guess for lack of a better term, a visitor? Well, it was a different perspective for me. And I did have the unique experience, though. This was the first time I commanded the launching vehicle. So that was a novel part of the experience. And a part of being a NASA astronaut, I had many experiences where we trade responsibilities and command.

And so this was just another aspect of that. The station commander had the lead there on the station and on the Dragon, I had the lead. So it's just an interesting shifting roles and responsibilities depending on where you are. But it was great to be back up there and see the place. Some things are in the same place they were when I left. And even some of the bags were labeled by my handwriting, I thought. That is so cool. You've writtenden on multiple spacecraft and rockets now. What was it like to work with SpaceX and what was it like to fly in Dragon and be launched from a Falcon 9 versus Soyuz or versus a space shuttle? Well, they're all very different in their experiences and built on

different technologies and development of the time. The best part about a shuttle launch was when the solid rocket boosters ignited because you absolutely had no question that you were going somewhere immediately because the vibration was very high, the vibration level and the acceleration level was extremely high. Compared to the Soyuz, you know, on my first launch, there was like half a potato where I'm like, are we supposed to be moving yet? Because the clock had counted down to zero. And I'm like, wait, we're supposed to be moving. But it's actually the elaborate launch system that holds the rocket over the launch pad. And the thrust has to equal the mass of the vehicle before it falls away and the vehicle actually launches.

So there is just a little bit of time before that happens. And then on the Dragon, I loved the crew interfaces and displays because they integrated data and procedures together. made it very easy from a user perspective to really know what was going on, what was happening and to stay in tune with the vehicle. So it was very exciting. The landing on water was definitely better than landing on the ground. A lot less rolling around. But the shuttle landing on a runway, yeah, beats pretty much all of them. Oh, I bet. I bet that does. So in terms of training, in terms of actually carrying out

a mission, a private mission, what are the differences versus doing it as an astronaut, as a government astronaut? Because when I think about government and how it's always historically been done, it's years and years and years of preparation and training. And when it's private, at least it seems like from an outsider looking in, things are happening much more quickly. Well, there are some aspects of it that are happening more quickly, but you have to remember even shuttle training missions for a short duration mission or a year or maybe less, some of them extended a little bit beyond that, but mostly they were shorter. John trained for almost two years because he was a backup for the Axiom 1 mission, as well as being prime for Axiom 2. And he got a lot of additional training. My Saudi crewmates trained for nine months with us. But we had a very short duration mission plan. And we planned and trained to those

objectives. So we weren't training on unnecessary things, tasks that we would not ever be doing, performing. We were just focusing on the tasks that we were doing during the mission, much like a shuttle crew would do when they were visiting when I was on board the ISS. I see. You work for Axiom now. You're kind of in this very unique position. It goes back to something you said a little bit earlier, and that's, you know, spaceflight and human spaceflight and access to space becoming more widespread. You're in this very unique position to not only be commanding a spaceflight or AX-2 like you just did, but also working for this company that's taking all of this data and using it to build out a commercial space station in tandem with NASA. I wonder how quickly you think this becomes more common, more commercial, more widespread and more accessible?

Well, I think the access is going to increase for lots of countries and individuals. But I also think as we begin developing the commercial aspects of the station, it will also bring in other companies who want to develop products, for instance, pharmaceuticals or other things on board a commercial space station. And so I'm excited about that future. And because of Axiom and NASA's design to have our station initially joined to the ISS and then constructed from there and depart before the ISS is de-orbited in 2030 allows us an opportunity to have a really good proving ground and to open up that access a little bit earlier for everyone. Will you be doing more of these space flights? Oh, I certainly hope so. Yeah. I wonder what you think as far as how the space economy now evolves. And we just touched on it a little bit, but how it evolves and how it grows and how quickly it can emerge now.

Well, you know, we've seen so much access by numerous different companies, different satellite launchers. You know, people are developing lunar landers on rovers, you know, Axiom Space getting the contract for the lunar suits that will be used by the astronauts, the NASA astronauts that land on the moon. There's going to be so many different ways that companies and governments are going to collaborate in the future. And I think that the more companies and the more folks that are out there exploring these new avenues in space, the more opportunities everyone is going to have. Yeah. At Axiom specifically, how involved are you in input around the development of these commercial space stations, in terms of training around future teams that are going to go on these missions. What does your day-to-day look like working with a space startup? Well, actually, one of the most fun things for me is talking to these young, innovative engineers.

We have a really cool mix of people who've worked on the station and know what things not to do again. And these new innovative ideas coming out. And I get to talk to these young people and say, okay, that's a good idea. That one will work in space. This one, you're going to have to work on that because it's just not practical in space for this reason, that reason. So I get to use my experience to help them design and fine tune without having to do all the research on their own. So it's exciting for me. Also, one of the things that I like to do and one of the things I developed while working at NASA was expeditionary crew skills. So basically the soft skills that are used by crew members and interacting with each other,

like teamwork, leadership, followership, self-care, team care, those things are all important aspects of the mission, especially when you're living in a small, confined space or, you know, away from your families, et cetera. And so I like working with the crews to do those kinds of activities. What are some examples of those activities? Well, we did for our training for AX2, we did a couple of different things. We did a national outdoor leadership school. It's basically shared suffering, carrying heavy backpacks around and hiking, you know, a couple thousand feet a day and then going down the next day and hiking up another mountain. But it actually, we would do training classes at night discussing all those expeditionary skills and what works best for different leadership situations, how best to be a supportive

and proactive follower. We had all those types of discussions. So it's really important. We also did a thing called HERA. It's a closed environment that simulates, you know, you're closed up. And for, in our case, it was for a five-day period. And we're simulating space tasks with a space timeline and communications with the ground. And so that was another team bonding experience. You know, we're all living in this three level habitat with the bedrooms up on the top level. And I'm exaggerating because it's really like a little bunk area. But it was it was a good experience. Again, a lot of team bonding and a lot of time to discuss those expeditionary skills that are important for spaceflight. Yeah, important for spaceflight. But I mean, just hearing you describe some of this,

it's like it would be good for people in everyday life or leadership positions as well too, I would imagine. These are soft skills that are tricky to come by and really fully embrace, I think. In the past, there hasn't always been, well, I don't want to say there hasn't always been. We haven't always seen enough astronauts coming through the pipeline on the government side in recent years. But there does seem to be a lot more excitement among younger generations, and it goes back to one of the purposes of this AX2 mission, to get involved. And I wonder if you think that that is actually happening now and

that we're going to see more young people excited and getting involved and getting into STEM careers, looking to engage in spaceflight and the space economy in general. Well, I certainly hope so. I mean, that's one of our objectives is to try and stimulate the economy. And we have to do that by having young people be excited about the potential in our future. And so it's just very, very exciting to me to have reached out to children and to inspire them. I think it's, you know, just it's special to be a part of that. Yeah. If you if you would just indulge me a little bit on how you ended up on this career path, because you've broken all the records.

You hold all the records. It's incredible. Your career has been incredible. I just I wonder, did you always think you'd be an astronaut or is this something that's sort of an opportunity that came up that was unexpected? The door opened and you kicked it down and you charged through. Well, it was kind of a long path for me. I was nine years old when Neil Armstrong took his first step on the moon. And, you know, even at nine, I felt that was very inspirational. And that's why I hope we are

inspiring those young minds that same age, because for me, it's stuck. And although I was a farm kid, I didn't really, you know, and a farm girl, I didn't really know if that would ever be an option for me. But that's what my dream was. And it wasn't until I graduated high school and NASA selected the first female astronauts that I really felt like, hey, this is possible. I can do this. And two of the astronauts had medical degrees and another had a biochemistry degree. And I was very interested in biochemistry myself. And so I thought, this might really be able to be possible. Luckily, I had no idea how hard it'd be. But I set on my path.

I got an undergraduate and graduate degrees and started working at NASA. Of course, as soon as I got my graduate degree, I applied to work to be an astronaut. For 10 years, I was applied and was rejected. And I always like to tell young people that sometimes your path isn't always a straight line to getting to your goal. During those 10 years, I can look back now and say that those were the 10 years that enabled me to get the training I needed to be selected as the first female commander and to be selected as the first female and non-military chief of the astronaut office. It was those 10 years that enabled that. And so in the end, I got even more than what I'd ever dreamed of. That's so inspirational. What's the coolest thing about being in space?

Is it a spacewalk? Definitely the coolest task in space is going on a spacewalk. You're out in the spacesuit. It's basically a little spaceship built for one. It was pretty amazing. I was on a spacewalk. It was my first one in the U.S. suit. I had done one EVA in a Russian suit on my first flight. But on my second flight, I did a spacewalk and I had

pulled out a box. It was a baseband signal processor, but it needed to be changed out. And I pulled it out. And at the back of that was a reflective thermal insulation thing, but it was like mirror reflective. And I saw myself in a spacesuit and I saw solar rays and the Earth behind me. I'm like, I'm an astronaut. It was very special. Wow. If you if when you do another spaceflight, what is your dream crew? Are there certain people that you would love to travel with space? Could be anybody. I think, you know,

flying up with three rookies was a lot of fun because it allowed me to re experience the first time again, I would pick anybody that wanted to be part of a team because to me that was that's what makes makes the cruise special is the people trying to be part of a team and so I I would I would want people that wanted to make and build that any final thoughts either on the ax2 mission or axiom or just where where the space economy is headed that we haven't talked about? Well, I've spent, you know, basically my whole life, my whole career in space industry. And if you count from nine years old being inspired, you could say my whole life. And I think it's a really cool time

to be a part of this changing space as we see it now. It's going to, I think, build huge changes in our technology and innovation, and it will drive all kinds of industry here on Earth as well as in space. And so to me, it's a powerful time to be involved. That does it for this episode of Manifest Space. Make sure you never miss a launch by following us wherever you get your podcasts and by watching our coverage on Closing Bell Overtime. I'm Morgan Brennan.