Closing Bell - Manifest Space: Moonshot with NASA Astronaut Mike Massimino 12/7/23

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Mike Massimino, serving as a NASA astronaut until 2014, has a slew of accomplishments: the first human to tweet from space, the last astronaut to work inside the Hubble Telescope and the speculated inspiration for George Clooney’s role in “Gravity.” He’s now out with a book, titled Moonshot, with the greatest lessons learned from his experiences. Massimino joins Morgan Brennan to discuss the book and the what experiences in space can bring to daily living on earth.

Mike Massimino served as a NASA astronaut until 2014, traveling to orbit on two missions, both to service the Hubble Space Telescope. He was the first human to tweet from space, the last to work inside Hubble, and is believed to be the real-life inspiration for George Clooney's role in the film Gravity. Now, he's channeling those experiences and challenges into a new book titled Moonshot. What I found out at NASA is working on the Hubble Space Telescope, I was going to make mistakes and I did make mistakes. But I couldn't ruminate for even a minute. For example, I stripped a screw while repairing a science instrument on the telescope and it was a really bonehead move. They came up with a solution after about an hour or so of troubleshooting of how we could get around it, but I thought there was no way to solve this because it was so simple, we had no backup, even I couldn't mess it up.

It was a really dumb mistake. So what I did, Morgan, is I took a 30-second timeout. 30 seconds of remorse, 30 seconds of regret, but cap it at 30 seconds. Life lessons from Astro Mike, a success story who would not have been considered, in his own words, a prime candidate to become an astronaut, but overcame the odds. What experiences in space can bring to daily living on Earth. I'm Morgan Brennan, and this is Manifest Space. So the decision to write another book, why and what's it about? Well, I had learned so much as an astronaut.

You know, I was kind of like your, you wouldn't necessarily consider me to be a prime candidate to become an astronaut to begin with. I was kind of this skinny, scrawny kid growing up, afraid of heights. I still don't like heights. My vision went bad on me at an early age, but I made it. Perseverance, not giving up. So that's part of what the book is about. But mainly what it is, is things I learned after I got to NASA. I learned so much in leadership and perseverance and teamwork there. That was necessary to have these guidelines, these actionable items, these things I have top of mind when I was working on the Hubble Space Telescope, for example. But they are also applicable to what we do on Earth every

day, whether you're in a cubicle or you're out here on the trading floor or you're dealing with your family. These same guidelines apply. And so what the reason I wanted to write the book was is to share those lessons from space to hopefully help people here on the ground in their everyday lives. I do want to get into some examples of those lessons. But first, let's go back to the fact that you weren't kind of the typical person to become a NASA astronaut. You rejected, I was reading, three times before you made it into the astronaut corps. Yeah. How did you persevere?

Well, the first two times I just got letters back from NASA in their first couple of selections. The third time I got an interview, I was a finalist, so I was getting close. And then it's a whole week of events when you go for the interview and I got DQ'd. I was disqualified because of my eyesight. And at the time, what they told me was no one had ever been able to overcome that. You know, there was other medical issues you might be able to get some help with, but not with the eyesight. So it was pretty disheartening because I couldn't even try again. You're disqualified, done, we won't look at you any longer for future selections.

But I found out about something called vision training. And it mainly worked with kids, with young kids. They could train their eyes to see better. And so I found this optometrist, and I promised her I could be really immature. She wouldn't know the difference between me and a little kid. And she let me try, and she helped me, and I was able to pick up another line on the eye chart to at least be able to apply again, and I got picked on the fourth try.

But the lesson there, I think, is that the important thing is to keep trying when you're pursuing a goal or a dream. The first chapter in the book is one out of a million is not zero. It's about perseverance. And I think about that. This is kind of a math-oriented place here, right? It's a lot of analytics and stuff. I was at MIT when this came after my second rejection.

One out of a million is a really small number, but it's non-zero, right? It's a bunch of zeros with a one at the end. And that was, I felt, what my chances were of being successful at becoming an astronaut. But once you give up, that one turns to a zero and you're done, you know what the outcome is going to be. You will not be successful. So that's what kept me going. As long as I could try, I felt that was success.

Trying was success. And if I was able to reach the goal, even better. But you have to keep trying or else it's not going to happen. Okay. So you tried, you succeeded, in part because you didn't give up and you found a way. Yes, I found a way. So you become part of the Ashnok Corps. You go to space not once, but twice. Service the Hubble telescope on both of these missions. What are some of the lessons learned that you've brought back to Earth?

A few things there. One is, one of the first things I had to learn to do was make mistakes. I shouldn't say make mistakes, but I had to deal with making mistakes and be okay with making mistakes. And what I found in my life previous to NASA is I would ruminate over a mistake maybe for like days or even a week. Oh, I messed this up. I failed this exam, whatever it was. And those are days you're not getting back. What I found out at NASA is working on the Hubble Space Telescope, I was going to make mistakes and I did make mistakes, but I couldn't ruminate for even a minute because you have to. You made mistakes servicing the telescope. Yeah. For example, I stripped a screw while repairing a science instrument on the telescope and it was a really bonehead move uh we had no

recourse for it they finally they came up with a solution after about an hour or so of troubleshooting of how we could get around it but i thought there was no way to solve this because it was so simple we had no backup even i couldn't mess it up because it was a really dumb mistake so what I did Morgan is I took a 30 second timeout 30 seconds of remorse 30 seconds of regret that's what I had learned in my training I learned it from Megan McArthur one of my crewmates CJ Sturkow a marine marine pilot taught this to me 30 seconds it's okay to be upset with yourself beat yourself up call yourself every name in the book but cap it at 30 seconds. At 30 seconds, say, all right, I'm going to learn from that. It's never happening again.

And leave it in the past and move on. So it's okay to have that emotion, but cap it at 30 seconds because your team needs you and you need to continue on with what you're supposed to be doing to deal with that, probably deal with that mistake, first off. So 30 seconds of regret and move on is one thing I learned. And I use that every day. I'm going to start using that. I'm making mistakes all the time.

And it's okay to be upset, but cap it at 30 seconds and move on. Okay, wait. So I just want to go back to what was the workaround? Oh, so what happened was there was a handrail that was used to insert this instrument years ago, and now it wasn't needed anymore because the instrument was already in the telescope now. But I was taking off an access panel that had 111 small screws on it to replace its power supply with a 120 pin connector at the back. There's all these things I had to go, but this hand drill was in the way.

Four big bolts, not a big problem, one line in the checklist, 30 seconds. Two of the screws came out at the top, one at the lower left, the one on the bottom right is the one I stripped, and I was like, oh man, I realize nothing's going to get done today and we'll never find out if there's life in the universe and everyone will blame me. That's what was the result of this. But the work around was, it was loose at the top. We were trying all kinds of stuff, you know, it's, how are we going to get in here, can we try this, that, but a very clever engineer thought of what he would do in his garage

and just use brute force and that's what we did. I taped the bottom of the hand drill to contain debris. It was loose at the top. And I just ripped the thing off. So that might seem like a really simple solution. And it was just to tear it, tan this hammer off the telescope. But it was a really clever solution. And that's what saved the day.

And, of course, Hubble's still operating. Hubble's still working. And it's done more than anybody could have possibly imagined. It's lived a life longer than, I think, expectations. That's right. We didn't warranty anything, by the way. But it's lived beyond whatever warranty you would imagine. It's still working.

And the James Webb Telescope is working in concert with it. So I think we have these two great telescopes up there teaching us, still uncovering the secrets of the universe. I mean, the Hubble did have, I think it was, there was a glitch recently that was being reported. Yeah, I just heard about that. It's brought, raised questions again about the possibility of private servicing. Yeah. We'd love to get your thoughts on this, because it does kind of speak to this moment that

we're in, in the space economy and the role that commercial's playing. Yeah. I think that the commercial space program is really wonderful. I think that it's something that the government should be doing, trying to stimulate economic activity. And NASA has done that, I think, when they saw that as an opportunity

after the shuttle program retired to help companies like SpaceX. And now they're working with SpaceX and Blue Origin and those companies that are flourishing, doing really well. So I think overall this is a really good thing. It's providing more access to space, which means that it's not just traditional career astronauts. I had a job as an astronaut.

It was a real job, a lot of stuff on the ground had to be done as well to get you ready and to support other missions. But now it gives the opportunity for others who might be entrepreneurs to think of ways they could use space. Scientists as well who aren't career astronauts can use space. My students at Columbia have flown two experiments in space, which would be unheard of just a few years ago. They've done that recently. So I think the main thing is that there's access,

and it's not just governments that are going now. It's also private companies. I think it's a great thing, really. Yeah. So you think it's exciting then that you see more people have access to space? Absolutely. Folks that maybe would have been rejected the way you had been in the past are now actually finding a way. Yeah. They don't have to spend a long time. It was six years of training before I got to

my first space flight. A lot of people- It's a lot of training. Yeah. But I wanted that job. I wanted to be Neil Armstrong. I saw him walk on the moon when I was a little kid. I said, I want to be like that guy. And so I wanted that career. So for me, that was my passion. I wanted to not just fly in space, but I wanted to be part of the team at NASA and learn all these cool things that I share in the book, right?

All these lessons, that's where they come from. But other people might not want to do that, or they might not be able to do that, or they have to go through the selection, and maybe that won't work. So now there's other ways to go. And, again, it's not just people, but it's also other things. Other satellites are going to be launched, communication systems. Now that the access is there, people can be creative. All these smart entrepreneurial people around the world can think of how can space be used in whatever it is and I'm developing or doing maybe an entertainment maybe just for vacations

too now it's all possible would you go back to space I don't know it depends Morgan I think the answer that should be yes but I think I'm very happy with the space flights I had and I'm happy with what I'm doing now if there was a purpose for me to go back like if they needed me to go back to help with the Hubble servicing if they were gonna do that yes I would do that if there was maybe something I was doing for outreach or some special thing that only I could do or that I was uniquely qualified for yeah I would I would love to go back but I think that needs for me there would need to be a purpose and I think for a lot of the even the private astronauts that are

coming up they're doing research or they're going there for whatever their reasons are. So I feel like I'm very happy with what I've gotten to do. I'm very happy with what I'm doing now. And if the right opportunity came along, I would, but I'm not, you know, I'm not holding my breath that that's going to happen. We'll see what happens. Okay. Give me a couple more lessons from the book.

So one I use every day is to be amazed, Morgan. And I think that it's important for us to take a little time out and just look around our planet and the people around us and realize how amazing it is for us to be here. And that came to me while during my second spacewalk, we had kind of a break in the action. I was able to look at the planet from our altitude at Hubble, which is 350 miles up. Beautiful to see our planet. The thought that went through my mind was this is a view from heaven and then I thought no no it's more beautiful than that this is what heaven must look like. I thought I was looking into an absolute paradise and you admire it from afar when you're

in space but on earth you get to interact with it and it changed my my interaction with the planet. So I try to look around and see these wonderful things that are around us every day. It might be looking at the Grand Canyon, which is pretty spectacular, or the ocean. But it's also just walking around New York City, riding the subway even. It's pretty amazing that we have these systems in place. This building that we're in now, the Stock Exchange, seeing the people, seeing the faces, seeing the pace of things. I think we are living in an amazing place and we should always try to take time out during the day to be amazed. I do have to ask about this. You've been called the real life astronaut that inspired George Clooney's role in the movie Gravity.

Is that true? I don't know. I'm not going to dispute that. I've never met George Clooney. When that movie came out, Gravity is the movie that they're referring to there, there was a rumor going around that that might have been based on my spacewalking experiences. The only truth to that came, I mean, the one piece of information that seemed to back that up is I did meet the director of the movie because I did some promotion with the movie. And he said he listened to my tapes, the way I talked, and watched some of the footage because we did an IMAX movie. IMAX did a movie called Hubble 3D. And it was about our mission and the other Hubble missions as well.

And that was a Warner Brothers production, as was Gravity. So I think that they had access to some of the footage and tapes from that and that might have been an influence there but then it was reported on ABC News World News Tonight they had me on as a person of the week at the end of one week and that's what they said it was so I think that's how that all started but I'm very flattered by that so I'm not going to dispute that rumor or dispel it in any way. But there may be, I think there is some truth to it, but, yeah, that's the way it was reported. So I'm going with it. I mean, I would go with it.

That's pretty amazing. Yeah, that's a good one. Most amazing, unappreciated, overlooked, or wrongly misinterpreted thing about being in space, going to space, or doing a spacewalk, any of the above? I think what I was really surprised about, as far as the astronaut program goes, was as I started to get closer to it, and I think when you have a dream that you're wanting to do, you might have had an idea of what being an anchor was like, or being a reporter, journalist on television was like, what those people would be like. And I had this idea, you know, these astronauts are superheroes and a little intimidating. But as I got to know them on my path to becoming an astronaut, I found that I really liked

them and they had all the qualities that I would want to have in myself. You know, they were hardworking people. They were friendly. Some were very outgoing. Some were more not so, a little more introverted. But they had the quality of hard work and dedication and teamwork. And I miss flying in space. You mentioned about the experience of going. That was cool. But what I really miss even more, that I think about when I dream at night now. I used to, when I first left NASA what I really miss even more, that I think about when I dream at night now, I don't, I used to, when I first left NASA, I dreamed about like being in space. But now I dream more about just the camaraderie of figuring out problems together, working on engineering

solutions to things, the bigger team, not just the astronauts that I work with, but the instructors and the people in the Mission Control Center. That is what I really miss, that camaraderie. And it's not, it's not a bunch of superheroes. It's a bunch of hardworking people that really love their jobs and work together and take care of each other. And those are things that we can have in our everyday lives too, trying to build that team where everyone cares about each other. Another lesson I learned along the way that I share in the book is the secret to leadership is finding a way to care for and admire everyone on your team. And if you meet someone that you don't like who's on your team, don't think of it as you don't like them. Think of it as you don't know them well enough

and try to get a good thought on everybody and keep it in your bank of good thoughts, is what I call it, so that when you might have a conflict, you can go back to that bank of good thoughts. And this is helpful during the holiday season, too, with families, you know, getting that good thought about everybody. But it was really important for us to be able to get along and have a very good team effort or else we weren't going to be successful. And so it's not a bunch of individuals. It's really a team effort.

And that is something we can have in our everyday lives. So I didn't know what it was going to be like. I thought it might be a bunch of ego-driven people. And they were all very qualified, but they all had that spirit of camaraderie and working together, which I found very pleasant. It was a great way to go to work every day. That does it for this episode of Manifest Space. Make sure you never miss a launch by following us wherever you get your podcasts. And by watching our coverage

on Closing Bell Overtime. I'm Morgan Brennan.