Closing Bell - Manifest Space: The First-Ever Private Spacewalk with Polaris Dawn Mission Commander Jared Isaacman 9/19/24

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

Polaris Dawn has done the impossible: making history with private citizens conducting a spacewalk. The extravehicular activity was done to test SpaceX’s new suits. Fresh off of splashdown, mission commander & Shift4 CEO Jared Isaacman joins Morgan Brennan to discuss the view from his walk, how this space mission compared to Inspiration4— his previous venture—and the path ahead for the Polaris Program.

Back at home, we all have a lot of work to do, but from here, Earth sure looks like a perfect world. On September 12th, Polaris Dawn commander Jared Isaacman made history, becoming the first private citizen ever to step out into the vast expanse of space. The spacewalks, mission specialist Sarah Gillis did one as well, tested SpaceX's new suits, which were worn by the entire crew, including mission pilot Kid Poteet and mission specialist Anna Menon, as everyone was exposed. When you look at Earth, it's extraordinary, especially from that altitude. I think the EVA was almost at the apogee of that orbit, so about 730 kilometers.

It was gorgeous. I will also say a lot of the tests that we did were faced away from Earth, where you're just looking into the darkness of space and it's not peaceful. Like you get that very like threatening vibe from it that this is a hostile place to be. And if you want to be here in in this new frontier, you're going to have to work for it and it won't be easy. Polaris Dawn took humans the farthest into space since the Apollo era, through the Van Allen radiation belts, and it even included a concert of Ray's theme from Star Wars, played simultaneously by Gillis in space with musicians around the world.

In all, 40 experiments were conducted before the SpaceX Dragon capsule re-entered the atmosphere and splashed down in the Gulf of Mexico last Sunday. I was lucky to get the first view, but it was just a big effort from developing the suits over the last two and a half years to, you know, building the life support system, to repressurizing the vehicle. I just can't say enough about, you know, this is all part of a bigger effort. On this episode, now safely back on Earth, Shift 4 founder and CEO Jared Isaacman, now an astronaut two times over, shares his experience from the groundbreaking spaceflight, how it compared to his first, Inspiration4, and what is next as two more missions are still to come as part of the Polaris program.

I'm Morgan Brennan, and this is Manifest Space. Joining me now, Jared Isaacman, fresh off of the history-making Polaris Dawn mission. Jared, you just got back from space a couple days ago. How was it? It was really, it was, it was excellent, Morgan. You know, we really tried to pack an awful lot into five days. So pretty much from the time we got on orbit, we were off to the races and I'm just really happy to be back and, and, and having like accomplished it all, all of the objectives, the science and research, because it's just, there's thousands of people that go into making this mission. And if you come up short, you feel like you're letting everyone down. And I think we came back to earth feeling like, like we got the

job done. So I'd imagine there was debriefings and tests, etc. After you did splash down off the coast of Florida, what was the first thing you did or wanted to do after you got through that process? Eat a cheeseburger. Those five days, I can't say we slept much, nor can I say we ate too much. We just tried to get things done as fast as we could. So on the way downhill, we were all talking about, hey, what's the first thing you're going to eat when you get the opportunity? So I think quite a few of us were aligned that it should be a good cheeseburger. So we were on the helicopter. And as soon as we touched down, the scientists got to poke and prod us for a while, MRI, brain scans. But when the moment appeared, the cheeseburger went down.

All right. So let's talk a little bit about this mission itself, because as you mentioned, you guys had a lot going on and I want to get into all those details. I have to, of course, start with the historic spacewalk. I was on the cover of every newspaper in the 24 hours after it happened. You coming out of the dragon capsule and looking into space and making incredible comments about what you saw back on Earth. What was it like to go through that EVA? Yeah, well, I mean, there was there was a lot of people with us just to, you know, open that up. I mean, there's four people in the spaceship, my crew that all got exposed to the vacuum of space the exact same time. Everybody was taking the same risks at

that point. You know, I was lucky to get the first view, but it was just a big effort from developing the suits over the last two and a half years to, you know, building the life support system, to repressurizing the vehicle. I just can't say enough about, you know, this is all part of a bigger effort, right? And that even goes for the EVA itself, you know, by any human spaceflight standard, you know, there's been 300 EVAs, that wasn't one of the more complicated ones. If anything, it was more reminiscent of the early, you know, Gemini type EVAs, but it was a step in the right direction. And it's just a huge team effort in that regard. But yeah, I can tell you that it is, it's very different than

looking out the window, which is an incredible visual experience, but the EVA has so many more senses coming to play. Of course it's visual, but it's physical as you're moving around. I mean, you're fighting against a suit that unpressurized is just heavy clothing, but pressurized, it's as rigid as a spaceship. You know, there's massive pressure changes, temperature changes, there's adrenaline firing, so it's just a lot of information that's getting funneled in at once. And when you look at Earth, it's extraordinary, especially from that altitude. I think the EVA was almost at the apogee of that orbit. So about 730 kilometers. It was gorgeous. But I will also say like a lot of the tests that we did were faced away from Earth, where you're just looking into the darkness of space. And,

and it's not peaceful. Like it, you get that very very like threatening, you know, vibe from it, that this is a hostile place to be. And if you want to be here in, in this new, you know, frontier, you're going to have to work for it and it won't be easy. And, and that's no different than sailing across the oceans in the 1400s when people thought they'd fall off the end of the world, they're climbing mountains. You know, there's just a lot of environments that are not hospitable that you have to work for if you want to really understand them. And that was what I took away a lot from the EVA. So the suits worked according to plan, I would take it. The suits, they did awesome. For two years of development effort to, you know,

to ultimately generate a suit like that. I mean, you, you know, you, you probably saw we're moving our arms around quite a bit. You know, we were bending our knees. Like that was that that's, that's very hard to do in a normal space suit. You know, cause when you pressurize up to 5.2 PSI again, like everything becomes very stiff and rigid. You know, it's not uncommon for NASA astronauts after a couple EVAs, they get shoulder, you know, reconstruction surgery. I mean, that's no joke. So I would say in terms of the mobility and the dexterity with the fingers, it did really great. And, you know, the temperature was fine, thermal management worked great, the HUD worked great, the helmet camera, a lot of things were better than how we planned for them back on Earth.

And of course, you traveled to the highest Earth orbit on record, and the furthest out that humans have gone since the Apollo era and the last mission there in 1972. So to travel to those altitudes, what did you experience? And given the fact that going through the Van Allen radiation belts was a key part and how the body and the spacecraft react to that was a key part of going to those heights, what did you find? So, you know, the researchers and scientists are still downloading a lot of the data and we haven't had any of the research debriefs and probably won't for a few weeks. So I couldn't tell you any of the precise radiation data that was collected. What I can tell you is, you know, the vehicle absolutely took, you know, system upsets, which we fully expected. And then the kind of countermeasures to them, like the super like instantaneous automated recoveries that were faster than a human could worked every time.

A lot of them were related to communication systems. But this is this is fully what's expected when you're going through those high radiation environments. So in terms of like the upgrades to the vehicle to manage it worked very well. I can tell you there's, you know, going back to the early 60s, there's a kind of a phenomenon, these light flashes that are radiation induced. So we had a study related to that that was only applicable during those peak apogees, that very high 12 to 1400 kilometer regime. I saw it's basically if you close your eyes, it is like a meteor shower in your eyes, blue and white lights that just streak across. And, you know, I if the way I'm describing it, it probably sounds unsettling. It really wasn't because we just were briefed so extensively on it. And but it certainly was radiation related and coincided with the timing of some of the vehicle hits from that.

But I think we learned a lot. And also the ability to come home from those very high altitudes. So you're like all over the space industry. You know, like, for example, with Orion coming back, there's been some questions regarding the heat shield. There's a big difference from when you deorbit at, you know, say a 350 kilometer nominal like ISS deorbit altitude versus 450 versus 1400 versus coming back from the moon, the heat loads are enormous. So, you know, being

at that altitude kind of challenged the team on how you can do kind of shallower re-entry angles and such so that you don't take those same heat loads quite as quickly and actually can make better use of your heat shield. So there's just a lot of good development and learnings that have come out of this so far. And there'll be more, you know, throughout the year as we unpack the data. That's really fascinating. And I wouldn't have thought of that even just going from such a high altitude in Earth orbit to a lower one that you'd be having to and the team would be having to think about that and navigate that. In terms of the radiation studies, is that something that from a scientific standpoint, looking at your bodies now that you've gone through this, you're going

to be doing tests for an extended period of time? I think we made a lifetime commitment for getting poked and prodded, which is fine. They've already done a pretty good amount in the first couple of days since we've been home and it'll just be, you know, kind of an ongoing part of our lives. But that's great. We all want to see this world where people are able to, you know, venture off to Mars and explore even beyond that in our solar system. And you want to be able to come back home and be healthy enough to tell people about it. So it's a pretty important obligation from our mission. And you did something like 40 experiments over the course of five days. And there were some really touching human moments too, whether it was Anna Menon reading her,

the book that she authoredored or Sarah Gillis with her violin concert simultaneously with different symphonies on Earth playing Ray's theme from Star Wars. Were there certain moments that were that stood out or more your favorite from a personal standpoint versus others? There were so many, you know, kind of emotional moments on orbit. You know, it's interesting, like with with Inspiration4, when we came back, you know, the the real emotions didn't set in until after Elon made that kind of final $50 million donation to St. Jude's and put us over the mark that you felt like you accomplished everything. But while we were up there, I think just the significance of the milestones, like a lot of times, like we, we, we pause not for long, you know, you know,

a minute or so just to reflect on what just transpired. And it was emotional. Anna's book reading, certainly what a great way for her to, you know, connect with her kids when she is, you know, one of the, the two women who have traveled farthest from Earth and also raised money for an important cause at the same time. And when Sarah took the violin out of its cargo compartment the first time, even before she played it, it was very emotional. And it's such an important part of our mission. I mean, of course, using Starlink and laser links to connect. So it is vitally important there. But something else is like that inspirational element to every human spaceflight mission to, you know, kind of pull ourselves out of the, you know, the daily discourse and all the unpleasantries that are

here on Earth and look up and dream of something better. And I think Sarah nailed that with the violin. I mean, it was a great expression of unity using, you know, modern space-based technology to kind of reach back to something that, you know, to an art, to music that connects us over, you know, I don't know, all of human history and bring it to light in a new way. I think it just sparked a lot of curiosity and imagination. And I'm just so excited for that. I thought it was a really powerful moment. How much money have you raised for St. Jude this time? You know, I don't have the tally. I don't, in all honesty, like we've been literally going

nonstop. I haven't even like seen any of the videos from our mission. So I haven't gotten the update from, you know, Sarah's video specifically, which was also a fundraising effort for St. Jude. But, you know, you know, if we started, you know, at a $250 million mark, I'm sure we're, you know, tens of millions over that by now, but I don't have the exact number. In terms of some of the other tests or experiments or aspects of this mission, are there ones that have been less talked about or less covered that are really important that we should be thinking about now that you're back on Earth? Huh. That is a very good question. So, I mean, I don't think we've really had a chance to talk about any of them in great detail because there were so many.

But we did a lot up there. We tested out some interesting medical intervention capabilities. I mean, again, it all has to kind of further that, you know, that SpaceX vision of making life multi planetary. You know, how do you do airway management in space? Like it's only a matter of time if you have hundreds or thousands of people that someone will be in some sort of respiratory distress. So, you know, two of our crew members used endoscopes to image, you know, their, you know, their trachea and see if like traditional intervention methods like, you know, like a, like an ET tube or intubation tube would, would be successful because the fluid shifts in your body create a lot of inflammation and it might make it very hard to do that. We did a CPR demonstration in space. We did

a, well, a medical simulation using a Tempest Pro, which is kind of like an ambulance in a box where I was hooked up with like a 12 lead EKG, ultrasound, blood pressure, SpO2. And basically it beams information back to a flight surgeon at SpaceX. And that was a very interesting, you know, scenario. And then other things, I mean, we were just ultrasounding everything from, you know, the retina, our, you know, our various major veins and arteries, our organs, like our kidneys, tons of data was taken on that. Lots, lots of eye-based imagery work. We used a quick-see device, a pupillometer. I wore this trigger fish.

That's that cyborg experiment where it's a contact lens with pressure transducers in it that record intraocular pressure. Because a large percentage of astronauts do have significant vision changes, some really horrific as a result of the fluid shifts. In fact, Kid Poteet, our mission pilot, his vision changed quite significantly in space and thankfully fully returned. But this is normal stuff, but these are things we have to solve for if you're going to have hundreds or thousands of people in space someday. So there was quite a bit. No, we didn't have much spare time. So of course, this is your second space flight. Inspiration 4 was history making in of itself. How did the two compare? I mean, when you were, when you were

strapped up and on top of a Falcon 9 rocket where you're like, here we go, here we go again, let's do this. Oh, uh, it was great to be back. Um, honestly, like when, like when my body, my mind, like as soon as we got on orbit, it said, you know, this is a this is a good place for you. Like so my body was very quick to readapt and get in the mindset. But they were two very different missions. Inspiration for was the first. And, you know, we set out to do a lot of it, um, mostly in the inspirational camp itself. We had science and research, but, you know, we had, you know, probably six experiments over three days, not 40. And we didn't have a, you know, a spacewalk and a high apogee pass. So there were like, this was, um, we really challenged ourselves to make use of every second. And, uh, I have to tell you, I mean,

I have never gone that stretch in my life of no sleep. And I know the crew feels the same. We just wouldn't close our eyes at night if we had anything that was still open. And so I think it was very different going from like, you know, let's see if we can open this door for others to now we're here and we have to kind of build this, you know, this future in space for others. And it was a lot of work, but it was an absolute privilege for all of us to be there. I want to get to the next missions that are going to be coming now. But first, I just have to ask a couple of questions because I spoke to you guys before you lifted off when you were finishing up your training at SpaceX and you were test your training capsule at that point in

time. And I was really impressed how much was packed into such a small space. And so as we're having this conversation, it's what I'm thinking about, again, is is how much was packed into that small space and what that looks like to navigate three other crew members, plus all of the hardware and equipment and everything else that comes with doing all this work? So, I mean, managing all of your equipment and bags is a challenge. I mean, you use a lot of Velcro and cameras are mounted in different places and, you know, ultrasound devices. It's hard because, you know, you're trained to keep as clean of a cabin as you can, because the amount of an emergency deorbit, if something were to happen, any of those objects that get thrown around under the acceleration forces of reentry can be deadly. So you challenge yourself to can I keep this clean, but also have the equipment out that we need?

And it's hard. But I will say we there was not a single moment. And believe me, we checked with each other where you ever were encroaching on someone's space. I know that's hard to believe because it looks like it's the size of a closet. But when you are in microgravity and you can use every bit of the volume, it was fine. I mean, you can really make yourself fit in some awesome spots and get things done and not feel like you're bumping into people and you aren't. So it's totally roomy, you know, in that respect by spaceflight standards. And, but yeah, when you have four people that are racing through a, you know, a list of research, there can be a fair amount of equipment that's out in the cabin. How was splashdown and reentry?

Just, just as I remembered it, you know, the only difference I would say is because it was a higher energy deorbit, because we were simply higher, the visuals were much more impressive. So even starting at 100 kilometers, the entire spaceship was glowing orange. That was not the case on Inspiration4. We didn't pick up a lot of the kind of plasma visuals on Inspiration4 until probably 60 or 70 kilometers. So it was impressive. I mean, it was clear that we were, you know, making full use of the vehicle's, you know, thermal envelope. Like we were right there. And as a result, it is probably the toastiest marshmallow, you know, of the dragons that have come back. But it will be overhauled and refurbished and it will fly again.

But it was, you know, it was an impressive visual display of light. I'll tell you that on the way down. But other than that, all the sensations and acceleration forces were relatively the same. One of my favorite things was the photos captured by the NASA astronauts at the International Space Station of your re-entry. Okay, so Polaristan is the first of three missions in this program. Are you already thinking about number two? Well, I mean, it was, you know, from the time the program was established and, you know, this goes back to just before and then shortly after Inspiration4, the idea was always to bridge the gap from the current generation vehicle of Dragon to Starship and everything that's needed that we can get ahead of now in order to make that vehicle as suitable as possible for taking people to Mars.

So that's why we're building spacesuits and learning about EVA operations. It's why we're testing new communication pathways. It's why we're testing various means to, you know, combat the high radiation environment. So it was always contemplated that there would be, you know, three missions. We were always going to build off what we learned from this mission on the second. And I think we learned a lot from this one. And there'll probably be a couple months of gathering data and reviewing to determine what is truly in the realm of possible, but I could

almost guarantee you there's going to be another generation suit. You're going to build off of this one and I think that it will be a generational leap from even what everyone saw it now. And then I guess the only question is, is what do we do with it? You know, are we, are we able to breathe new life in a, in a, you know, an exploration asset that's been serving humankind very well for the last few decades, or is it something else? But I think we will continue to kind of push the envelope and try and help, you know, SpaceX take, you know, massive leaps in the direction of opening up this last frontier. And the plan is still at some point to be the first person to fly a crewed spaceflight of Starship. Well, that's where the Polaris journey ends. And that's where it's just becomes like a whole new beginning for, I think, really humankind and their ability to, you know, explore among the stars.

Starship will change everything. And and that's where our program ends when it's when it's ready to go. So that's a ways down the road, but certainly something we think about from time to time. And finally, the message you bring and the experience that your family has had going through this with you, especially as we do think about what this enables for future generations. Yeah, look, I think that, you know, when you're up there and you see how absolutely special our planet is, it is a perfect world. And if you can zoom out far enough from all of the daily chaos and hardships and suffering, we do live in a completely extraordinary world that we don't have any evidence of another one out there like it yet. So I think that's really important. That's why we put so much energy into trying to address, you know, real problems of today. I mean, that message should,

you know, resonate through all that we do. You know, the St. Jude work, the violin performance, the book reading, there's a lot of things that matter day to day that we care an awful lot about and are front and center. But also there is a future out there that we need to plan for. Humankind's destiny is not going to be constrained to just this planet. In fact, it better not be because, you know, it is only a matter of time before something that has happened in Earth's past could happen again and really, you know, snuff out this light of consciousness. And we can't have that. So the nice thing is, is starships are on the horizon. We will have the technical means for the first time to really open up this last frontier. And

it's just so damn exciting to think about what we might learn out there. So this is a great time to live. We are absolutely going into the second great age of exploration. And I know all of us that were part of Polaris just feel really fortunate to, you know, have some front row seats for everything that's happening around us. Well, Jared, it's an honor and a privilege to speak with you fresh off of this historic five-day mission of Polaris Dawn. Thank you so much for taking the time. Thanks, Morgan. Appreciate it. That does it for this episode of Manifest Space. Make sure you never miss a launch by following us wherever you get your podcasts

and by watching our coverage on Closing Bell Overtime. I'm Morgan Brennan.