Club 520 Podcast - Club 520 Films - Jeff Teague talks BUTLER RECRUITMENT & NIL with BUTLER Head Coach Ronald Nored

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Jeff Teague and the guys from Club 520 Films sit down with new Ronald Nored to talk all things Butler Basketball. Coach Nored breaks down his recruiting philosophy, the type of players he’s targeting, and what Bulldogs fans can expect on both ends of the floor. The conversation dives into defensive toughness, offensive identity, and his vision for restoring the championship culture that helped define the program during the days of Gordon Hayward, Nored, and those unforgettable national championship runs. Plus, hear how his NBA coaching experience will help shape the future of Butler Basketball.All lines provided by ‪Hard Rock Bet#VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Money bag. Welcome back to another episode of 520 Fields. I'm your host, Coach Lou. Before we introduce our guest, man, I'm going to introduce my co-host. Coach Moot to my far less. What's up, man? What's up, man? What's up, man?

Coach Jeff, what's the word? I'm excited, man. We got a special guest for sure. Very special guests. I said, we got a special guest to my left. Newly appointed head coach at Butler. Yes, sir. Coach Ron Norah.

How you doing, man? We appreciate you for that. Doing good, man. Appreciate your having me, man. I appreciate you, man. Before we start off, we kind of started this podcast. We all guys who used to hoot. We don't really hoop no more, so we coached.

Me either. So when was that time that you knew it was time to hang up the shoes? Oh, last summer. I was. Yeah, so I was in a little men's league last summer in Atlanta. Mm-hmm. And, you know, people started picking me up full court, pressing. I started talking trash.

And I was like, all right, you know, still thinking I can do what I used to. I couldn't do a lot, but still think I can do, you know, what I used to be able to do. I just couldn't. So I was like, all right. Yeah, it's time to be done. It's time to hang them up. It's time. It's time to be done.

You can't get the best of us. All of us. We usually start to show off with a coaching spotlight. So since you're our first, you know, college coach, we want to spotlight you about your coaching career, how you got into it. First, I actually didn't notice when you got done play. You were the head coach at Brownsburg. Brownsburg High School.

with my first job. How did that come about? Yeah, I didn't know that either. And how was that? Yeah. It's funny. So the long story, I try to give it to you quickly, is so the Super Bowl was here in Indy, my senior year. And we were having this big Super Bowl party at my house.

And we were playing Detroit at home. I got tripped that fell on the floor. I smashed my face on the floor and broke my teeth. Wow. And, you know, we were very happy. Yeah, not like, somebody like, they like took my hands out. I was about to turn it over, so I dove for the ball to try to get the ball back. And both my hands got caught.

So my face went right from the floor, just tore my teeth up. So we're preparing for the Super Bowl party. I couldn't eat anything because I couldn't chew. You know, I could barely talk. Well, the next practice or a couple of practices later, you know, it's just a normal practice or whatever. You know, did my thing. And then before I went to the conference tournament that year, the Horizon League Conference tournament, Brad was like, hey, I want to talk to you.

when you get back. So we get back from the tournament. And he's like, hey, the game after the practice after you hurt your teeth, the superintendent, his name is Jim Snap or Brownsburg Schools, was at that practice. Wow. To see how you were interacting with the team, seeing how you were going to act, all that stuff, see if, you know, what people said about you was real.

And I got my job because he, the superintendent showed up to a random practice that I had no idea, my teeth were all busted up. And so that was a blessing, but it was a great experience, you know, Indiana high school basketball is as good as it gets. Coaches are unbelievable. We lost the pike, by the way, at Pike. The coaches were unbelievable. And so to be able to have my first job against some of these great coaches in the state,

you know, really good players, D1 players every single night, it was a good way to start my career. That's dope, man. That's dope. That's dope. That's true. I didn't know we coached at Brownsburg. I said, I've been coached in high school basketball for 11 years.

I wasn't at Pike yet when we beat you guys. I don't think we ever lost the Brownsburg. I can't put that in there, but not yet. I lost the Brownsburg. You lost the Brownsburg? But it was Gordon Hayward. I was a freshman. Yeah.

He turned to the other. Yeah. He definitely turned it. So after that Brownsburg, that's that stint. You transitioned into the G League. How was that transition for you? It was a great transition. You know, I was there in Boston,

with Brad and you know, he told me like, hey, you're going to start in the G League. And so, you know, the two, the kind of theme of my career is I've been able to coach right from the junk, you know, it was not like, you know, a GA or a video coordinator or things like that. So my first job, I was a head coach. My second job, I was an assistant, you know, for a pro team, you know. And so, like, it was just me being throwing the fire. And I, you know, if I looked back, I can't remember everything from that year. But if I looked back and looked at myself coach and I would probably,

think I was crazy and terrible coach. But I got to experience it. I just got to do it. And so to be able to do that to coach pros, a lot of these guys at that time were just older than me or my age. And so to be able to learn how to interact as a coach with guys like that was, it's something that helped me even throughout my NBA career when I was coaching the NBA because that was every team I was a part of.

How was it coaching guys that's the same age as you, they can relate better to you or they kind of like, bro, we're the same age. Like, how was it? Yeah, I mean, I, I figured it out. You know, I think all of us know, just the relationship that you build with guys is most important. You know, but I was never a guy that was like, you know, hanging out with the guys, you know. I always kept that coach-player relationship, you know, a little separate so that, you know, when it came down to it, you know, I could coach them.

But I think, you know, we all know, like, guys want to know you're with them, but they also want to know you know what you're talking about, you know. So I think just being a real dude, you know, them knowing what you're talking about was something that allowed me to just coach guys even though with my age or older. Right. That's dope, man. That's dope. I guess from there, I mean, you've been all over. I've been every level. You move fast, too.

Like one year's stop. Trying to slow down now. I'm not going to either time soon. Yeah. But you transition into college. What's the biggest difference from, I guess, the pros to the college level? Now or when I coached the college first time? With that first time?

Yes, I was at Northern Kentucky University. And we were actually, it was, we couldn't go to the NCAA tournament that year. It was the last year of their transition from D2 to D1, before your transition. So we couldn't go to the tournament. Man, there's a lot of differences. I think the biggest one, though, is the amount of time you spend with the guys. Yeah.

You know, like you go on the road, you have your team dinner, you have team film, you have, like, you're just together all the time. college. Or in the NBA, you land. And I tell people all the time, like, you know, when I'm in the hotel, I never see players in the hotel in the NBA, you know. I see him when we get on the bus. So I think that's the biggest difference.

It's like the amount of time you spend in that, you know, just that time together is a lot different. Yeah. Thanks. Then obviously from there, you're a head coach at Long Island with the next organization. And then after you transitioned that, you went to the Hornets. How was that working with the Hornies? That was great.

I was originally, like, going to be a behind-the-bench coach with them and was fortunate to get on the bench. You know, I think I was, like, 26 or 27 at that time. It was crazy. No, I've been super blessed in my career. Yeah. What the opportunities that I've had. And so, you know, it was just the next step in the journey.

You know, I got to coach Kimba, who beat us in the national championship game. Did you talk about that? Yeah, yeah. And Jeremy Lamb was on that team. You know, and Shelvin Mack ended up being on the team. So it was Jay Lamb and Kimba, me and Shelvin on the same team. And so like around the Final Four, they're like, hey, let's do a Final Four national championship like talking about it.

We're like, come on. But, you know, to coach a guy like Kimba, you know, before he got traded to Boston was, man, Kimba's the best dude ever. But to coach a guy at that level, you know, what he was doing, It was special. It was 40, you know, 40 a night, you know, at six feet tall. You didn't like to death. So, no, that was a great time.

Okay. Yeah. No. I said, like as Jeff mentioned, you're moving around, moving up the ranks. You went to the Pacers. And then you finished this last year with the Hawks. Kind of talk about that Hawks group this year. I know it was a little tough for you guys at the beginning, but you guys finished strong.

Can you talk about how that year was this year? Special year. Obviously, we started our team. The start the year was a lot different than we ended. You know, Trey got hurt, I think, game five at Brooklyn this year. And really it was like, man, like, what are we going to look like? You know? Because Trey was so good and could put us in any position at any time.

And the way the team came together, you know, when he got hurt, because we had to. It wasn't just like, Trey's going to get us out of tough spots. We had to come together and do that. And we really were able to build something special. We went a crazy run when he got hurt. And then we had a little rough patch. We had guys coming in and out, you know, all year.

Trey came back. You know, Chris Stapps was kind of in and out. And then, you know, the trade deadline happened. And then we had, we finally had the team. Yeah. And almost the exact same thing happened again, you know. And we got, the great part was got those older guys. We got C.J. McCullum.

You know, we got Jock Landell. Like, you know, and so like to get these older guys that had had the experience, they really helped the young group go to the next level what we ended up seeing at the end of the year. So I learned a lot that year, this year, and it was really a special group. What do you think, you know, we talk about the Hawks a lot because, Jeff. What do you think is a piece they can get out of the draft

that can take them to that next level? Man, that's a great question. I haven't thought about the Hawks a lot since I left. You had a half months ago. So I don't know exactly what's happening down there. You know, obviously, like, I think it would be good to get a young point guard, you know, somebody that's just like, you know, just a can play pick and roll, make every pass, make every read, be a great defender.

You know, there's a lot. Obviously, CJ, we play Dyson a lot at the point guard. And Dyson, I mean, Dyson is unbelievable. But just to have that young point guard that you can just give the ball to, he can play picking a role, you know, continue to get big big O down there. I think will help too. Obviously, you got Dyson and you got Jalen. You know, these guys, you got Nikiel.

Like, you know, the wings are pretty locked in. But, you know, I think to have maybe a point guard in a big that can continue to beef up the team would be helpful. Yeah. You can always use a point guard on a big. Always, yeah. I want to talk to you about your, I know you're going to be a great coach. You've been a great coach.

You've been doing your thing in the coaching world, but I know you from playing basketball. I remember you at Butler. I know about your career, how you committed to West of Kentucky. things like that. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about your playing career. So what was it like?

I know you was in high school. You were under-recruited. But getting a butler and having the moments in the runs that you had at Butler back-to-back final fours and things like that. What was that experience like? Life-changing for me. Yeah. Because, you know, I was not like, I was recruited a lot, but it was all mid-majors.

You know, so it wasn't like I wasn't ranked. I wasn't a four-star, five-star. You know, I was a good, I was a good high school player. you know, but coming to college, I was just a good solid player. So to be in that environment on a team, I'm from a small town in Birmingham, Alabama, you know, where we do football down there. So to come to Indiana now, I do have a lot of family here. I grew up coming up here to Indy, so I knew about it.

But to be in that environment and we're pretty good, my freshman year, my sophomore year, we go to the national championship game, my junior year, we do it again. And just the amount of love that the city showed us, that the country showed us. I mean, to this day, even before I was there, head coach a bowler to this day, the amount of people that, like, still remember that. And we'd be like, yo, they may not remember my name, but they're like, you look familiar for some reason.

You know what I mean? That, for me, coming from, like, where I came from is like, that I did not expect that to happen at all to ever be that person, you know, so, and it was a special team. It's a special group of dudes that were still close, you know, we're all still close. And so, yeah, man, it was life-changing. When you got the job, I'm sure since you all, y'all are close still. What was that like when everybody found out you were getting the job? What was that text like in a group chat?

Yeah, I mean, I think everybody was pretty excited, you know? You know, just trying to, we all remember, you know, the years you were talking about when I played here when we played here. And so to try to take what that was and to try to recreate that in this day and age, now it's hard, it's different. You know, I think we talk about it all the time, me and a couple guys, like I think if, you know, our team at that time, a horizon. League team would have done, you know, would have done, would do what we had did then, we probably all would have left. Yeah. We would have had to.

For sure. You know what I mean? It would have been good to stay together, but it would have been, it would have been hard. And, you know, so to try to recreate that. And this time is, it's a challenge. But, you know, fortunately for me, you know, I've coached in the G League where the teams come in and out, you know, NBA, where there's trade deadline and things like that, where you're having to put a team together.

And so I think just from that standpoint, those experiences and just coming back and try to bring those back, I think everybody was pretty excited about. it. No, for sure. For sure. It's dope. What was it like, obviously you play with a couple NBA players. What was it like being around Shelvin and Gordon around those times?

Did you know then that they would be future NBA players? I mean, you knew Gordon pretty early, you know, to be his size, 6869, to be able to dribble pass and shoot, post guys up, make threes, make middies, finish at the rim, athletic defensively. He had all the tools. You know, he just needed to grow a little bit to, you know, to his body and all that, you know. But we were at, we played Georgetown and Madison Square Garden in the middle of my sophomore year. And it was like, all right, this dude is for real. And then we played Steph at Davidson, you know, one of those years too.

And he went crazy. It was like, all right, you put these two together. And then we make the run where it's just like every night, every, you know, tournament game. He's leading us. Like, you're like, all right, you know, he's probably. gone. And then same thing with Shelvin. It took Shelvin a little bit longer, but nobody could stop Shelvin. Yeah. And you just knew it was a different level. You know, obviously we're playing the Horizon League, so we're not playing NBA players every night.

Right. There was some nights we did. But then when we get to the tournament and we're constantly, you know, consistently seeing high-level teams and Shelvin is still tearing them up. It was like, you know, like, all right, you can come back our senior year, but you should just go there. Yeah. Right. Shout to my boy, Shill. Man, all day. Yeah. Yeah. Man, what was Funny about Gordon is that I know we're a couple years older than him. I really didn't hear too much about him. He wasn't as tall. Yeah.

He was known for playing tennis for sure. Yeah. That's what I'm like, it's crazy to see that a person can grow. And then tennis being their first sport and then become an all-star in the NBA. Yeah. No, I always say, I mean, obviously, Jeff playing the NBA, like being around the NBA for that long, like, these dudes are just special. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of us.

try to say we want to get there or try to get there. But there's a God-given ability that's given to me. I would say all these guys. You know, like, even the guys you're like, yo, I could be him. More than likely, you can't be. These guys are special, you know. And even like the longevity of careers,

that is like, I can't keep playing. I just, I shut it. I can't keep. The ability for these guys athletically to be able to keep playing at the highest level for so long, That is God, now they're getting their bodies worked on, all that stuff. But still, this is a grind that these guys go through every single night for 82 games, you know? Like, that is just guy giving ability.

So, like, you know, Gordon was fortunate that he had to grow spurt. You know, if he stayed six feet like he was as a freshman in high school, he's not an NBA player. He goes to 6-8 and he's got all those guards skills and tools. Like, that's got got got. Yeah, for sure. That's definitely guy. What was Brad like during this time? what made him

kind of like a special coach where you knew like this guy's different than the other coach. Man, it was hard for me at that time because he was my only, you know, I had a great high school coach

who's actually from Indiana from Fort Wayne. But Brad was my only like college coach, you know, he's the only, so I didn't, I couldn't see what was happening, but I could get some feedback from, you know,

my guys that were playing at other places, but everything was efficient and everything was efficient And everything was about only the most important thing. You know, like there was never any waste in motion with Brad. And what I think that allowed him to do was be organized. And so, you know, at that time, people weren't really talking about college coaches drawing up ATOs. You know, and Brad was like drawn up unbelievable AT.

We came out of the timeout. We all knew it was a bucket. Or at least a great shot. And so, you know, but that came from him just being organized and not focusing on. on all these other things that we can start to focus on as coaches. Brad was always just process-oriented. And to me, that separated him, you know, and he just had a gift for just seeing the game.

You know, but he always knew what he was looking at. You know, he knew what he was paying attention to. Oh, I know both you got, Jeff, you play for him with the Celtics. I mean, I was on a team. My fault, my fault. Do y'all think we'll ever see him on the sideline again? No. No way.

Why? Why are you thinking that? He good at what he doing? now. He's unbelievable. It's working. That's correct. He got out of,

he know how to put teams together. And then I think he like enjoys not having that same pressure on the sideline. I think, I mean, it's still pressure to build a team. I think it's a lot less pressure, the everyday grind when it comes to preparing a team for a game. I don't think he wants that.

Because my last year was his last year. Yeah. And I remember him pulling me in the office and saying like, like, kind of like alluding to like, yeah, I'm done. What year was it? that again? This was 2021? Yeah. That's right. He was kind of like he was cooked kind of and

he went upstairs right after that. So I knew like, yeah, he was done. Like when he said to me, he was like he was just doing that. I've never seen brag like that. Yeah, he was kind of like, you know. Probably because the difference with college and the NBA, like you know how the NBA is. You kind of in and out. A lot going on. College is more

secure. I mean, it's different now because NIL and all the stuff going on. So I could probably see that, bro. Probably like. There's a lot going on up here. Today's show is brought to by our sponsor Hard Rock Bet, Florida's official sports book. The NBA finals are here. The lights are brighter. The pressure is greater.

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madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to Saigon on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He's still a coach to me though, you know what I mean? Like, to

to, when he left coaching, first of all, I saw the tweet, and I thought, you know, when he was, when he made the transition, I thought he was going to coach NGM. I was like, cool. But then somebody texts me, and I read the tweet again,

and it was like, no, he's just going to be the GM. And I'm like, no way. He did that early, too. Yeah, and I'm like, so in my mind, he's still a coach. So I hope he coaches one day. I mean, I know he'd be great at it, but like when IU was throwing him that crazy one,

and he was like, I never thought text him. I was like, who, who, who, who jurors like that playing around? He was like, no way. He just wrote back no way. It's like every crazy like big time college job that comes around. They always throw his name around. Carolina this year.

Yes. We played Carolina this year. I was like, please take the job. That's why I can coach you get you. That would have been fire. So let's talk about, um, you being at Butler upcoming. how do you plan to bring Butler back to what it was when you was playing? Not saying you can get to the national championship,

but bring it in the Big East, making it one of the top teams in the Big East. Yeah, I think the thing that has made Butler good for a long time is like Butler has known any coach. It's been a lot of great coaches at Butler, but we've known who we are and we've known who we're not. And so I think to just be really clear with our staff, and our team about who we are and who we need to be to be successful

is the most important thing. We don't have to get outside of any lane or try to do what anybody else is doing. Let's just be the best version of us and focus on what's going to make us successful. And to me, that's just being a great connected team. That's being super competitive every night. And that's being the most prepared team.

I think if we can do those three things, then we'll put ourselves in position to get back to being the team in the program that we all know father is. Right. Sure. When you're recruiting a lot of these kids, because I know a lot of kids watch us, what's some of the things that you're looking at when you're evaluating them and trying to see who you want to bring to your program?

Number one, we're looking like our guys humble. And that's not like, oh, I'm not that good. That's just like, you know what? I can always get better. Right. Like, I am what I am now, but I'm going to be in the gym because I know there's work to do and I'm going to always get better. So that's number one.

Number two is like, are you tough? Like, are you mentally tough? Can you get through difficult things? You know, the Big East is tough. A college season is tough. Can you get through that? Are you physically tough enough, you know, to actually handle the physicality of the season? Can you compete every single drill, every single rep, every single possession?

Yeah. You know, and for us, too, the last thing is like, can you be a great teammate? Like, we give you a role. Can you accept that role and play that role? Right. You know, if we can find guys that do those four things, we feel like we have the right kind of guys in the building. Yeah. No, effects.

Definitely. I wanted to talk about, obviously, I'm a high school coach. school recruiting is very tough now because of the transfer portal. Being at Butler and obviously being in Indiana, where there's a lot of high school players that got a lot of talent, will y'all be in the high school ranks looking to recruit a lot of high school players or will you guys, I mean, obviously you're going to be in the portal. That's just the smart thing to do too.

But how often, I mean, how many high school players would y'all look at a year, you know? Yeah, we're definitely going to be recruiting high school players. I think, you know, number one, I think just that ability to, you know, get a young guy and allow them to grow in the program, I think it's still a recipe for success. I think it's hard to sustain success when you're just transition, like you're getting a brand new team every single year.

So we got to recruit high school guys. We want to recruit, you know, high school guys at a high level, you know, and guys that can play. Right. You know, it's hard to recruit high school guys now that you want to say like, you know, we probably won't be able to do redshirt anymore with what's happening with in Civil A to five and five years.

but like to have a high school guy that won't play, he's just going to transfer. Right. You know, so we need high school guys that can impact the game right now. Yeah. And so we're definitely going to be recruiting high school guys,

try to keep them in our program the best we can. I think that's important. And that starts here in Indiana. Like, it's way too many players here in Indiana for us not to have Indiana on our team. That's important for us. So,

you know, it depends on what our team looks like as far as the number. but, you know, there's elite, we're going to, in our recruiting, as we're talking to guys, we're at least going to be five to seven deep at every position tracking guys, you know, in every class. Now, that could be more, that could be less depending on where we are and all that, but we need to have a good list of high school guys that we're heavily recruiting. Right. I'll love that.

Yeah. Since you've been recruiting, have you heard anything like crazy from a player that you're recruiting as far as, like, request or NIA? N-I-L. Nothing crazy. But there's been some bad agents. Oh, man. That's what I... I mean, just like, you're just on the phone and it's like, man, like, you just see, like, you're on the phone with an agent and he's hurting the kid.

You know what I mean? Like, that is happening. You get off the phone and you're like, man, you just wish you could tell the kid, like... Yeah. Like somebody else. You know what I mean? And so, you know, I feel bad for some of the kids and that, but I haven't heard. I'm sure we will.

We just went through one portal season. We're starting the high school stuff. So I'm sure that time will come. Yeah. Do you think NIL is a good thing for college right now? I do. You know, I do. I do think that, I do think that these players have value.

Mm-hmm. You know, as basketball players, I think where it is is getting, you know, it's getting difficult because the money is jumping up so drastic. Every year. It's so fast, you know. And so it's just going to be interesting what happens, how people operate, continue to operate in this. But I do think that it's important, you know, for for these young guys to be compensated,

you know, because they do have value as basketball players. Now, what's hard for me coming from the NBA is that there are players in the NBA that don't play, that are NBA players that are making, let's say, let's call it $2 million a year. Yeah. Right. that if they came to college would be significantly better than certain guys making way more money than them.

That's crazy. At times, that's hard to wrap their mind around. You know? But I do think that these guys should be compensated for sure. Do you think the five-year rule? You think that's been to help? Since, you know, guys transferring every year, that's kind of, I know that's kind of crazy.

You think that rule the help out a lot? I'm interested to see how it goes, you know. You know, also with like the legend that's happening in Congress and all, just how all of it fits together. I like the five and five because it just clears things up for everybody. You know, like you come to school, you got five years to play. Like, not register. There's no waivers.

Everybody is kind of in the same bucket. And so I think that helps just from a, as you're building your team and planning out your team, obviously there's still going to be guys that are transferring and stuff like that. But I just think it clears up some of the mess that's happening. I hope they put the one free transfer rule in. I think that a save a lot. Yeah.

Like you'll have to make a real decision at some point because I think that's what's kind of hurting kids a little bit that you have so many options. You don't have to go through any adversity. At all. It's not real life. When you get a career and you have a job, you know, it's hard to just leave your job with no consequence.

You know, and so, you know, I think the transfer in every year is definitely a challenge and is, you know, you know, making it difficult when these guys are done, If you go to the NBA, you're not just leaving your team when things go wrong. No. You know what I mean? Now, if you try to do that and you, you know, don't act right, it's going to be really easy for teams to just cut you and just find another player that can be in the NBA.

So there's some life habits that I think, you know, I agree with you, Jeff. Like that can help guys out. So being a coach Q, Quinn, that's my guy. Clint's, now that's my. Mine, too. And he's, offensively, he's one of the most gifted coaches I've ever been. around. I mean, he had ideas when I was with him with the Hawks that were just outlandish at times, right? For sure. And then now to see how he wanted to coach back then, and that was maybe 2011 maybe or

something like that, 12. And the things that guys are running now, he wanted to run in 2012, like all the Spain actions and all the five outs and all those things. And being around him, would that play into any of your offensive philosophies? Yeah, we had, I mean, Q and I have conversations daily. Yeah. You know, just like deep conversations about basketball and what about this and what he would bring me in his office, like, hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you think?

You know, and so for me, as a coach, to listen to watch him, like when I was, before I was with Atlanta, I would always watch Q's like in the game plays. What you watch Q's ATOs, you know? And so to be with him the last three years and see that, there's definitely a lot of things, just like screening angles, you know, the way your big runs in and out of certain pick and role situations. You know, we will do a lot of, you know, we were a fast team the last couple years, one of the fastest teams in the league the last couple years.

We'll still play with that pace and some of the spacing and, you know, some of the decisions and things that we did there because, you know, I think it's, number one, I think it's, like, I think it wins. Number two, I think it's a fun way for players to play. It's just an enjoyable way. Like, you get better. There's a reason that the last two years, Atlanta Hawks have had the most improved player. I think that may be the first time ever.

Like an organization has had back-to-back, most improved players. Dyson Daniels and they kill Alexander Walker. They are, they got better, they worked, but the system allowed them to play with a freedom that, like, allowed them to take their games to the next level. So to be able to do that in college, I think will be really good for our players. And they could have had three. I mean, Jalen Johnson was probably in the running.

Oh, 100%. Yeah, he could easily be updated. Yeah, for sure. Defensively. Coming into college, obviously, it's a... You were a defensive-minded player. Because I knew I wasn't going to get on the court. So in college, what's your expectation

or what can Butler fans expect from your Butler team defensive? Well, we got to be a defense team first. We have any chance to win. Like, it's not going to be outscoring people. You know, we want to be a tough, tough team and make it really tough to get the ball into the paint. You know, offensively, we're trying to get the ball to the paint as much as possible. Get to the rim,

you know, get some threes, kick out threes and stuff like that. So we're doing that offensively. That's what we want. We got to make sure we stop that defensively. Keep teams out of the paint, keep teams, you know, from being able to get in there and then just making contesting and making every single shot difficult. And then you've got to rebound. Like, it's

really, at the end of the day, that simple, you know, from a philosophy standpoint. But the way that we do it, like with the presence that we want, we want to be like a tough, nasty, defensive team. That's just the way that I identify. I see the game. And so, you know, when we're recruiting, we're trying to find guys that fit that. It's hard.

The other thing I learned in the NBA, it's hard to take a guy that doesn't do that, doesn't play that way. Yeah. And they try to get them to play that way. Yeah. You know, it's difficult. So we're trying to identify those guys in recruiting so that when they get to campus, we just say, I always say, and I heard somebody say it, and I use it now, lion cubs become lions. Yeah.

And sebras don't become lions. Yeah. So we're trying to find lion cubs that we can just develop in the line. You know, and so I think big picture, that's how we want to play defense. For sure. And I think it's misconstrued a lot of times with these high school kids. When you guys, they see coaches on the sideline, they think you guys are looking for 40 points. Scoring, scoring, scoring, scoring, scoring, scoring, and that's not really realistic.

I know Jeff tells our high school team a lot of times, when you're in high school and you go to college, they already got somebody there that's going to get you 18 to 20. No, that's cool. You're not getting on the floor. Definitely in the NBA. And you're not going to... Oh, for sure. For sure.

So I just want kids... I know we deal with a lot that playing hard is a skill now. It used to be that way a long time ago because kids just don't play hard, but playing hard gets you on the floor and keeps you on the floor. My life has been changed from playing hard. Like, just plain and simple. Like, I was not a great shooter, didn't score a lot.

You know, I could pass. I still think I'm one of the best passers out there. you know, but, but it was about playing hard. We got this list my freshman year when I got to Butler. And we just showed our team the other day and it said, talent not required at the top, right? And then it listed, like, maybe like 20 things, maybe more than that.

It was like, you know, your communication, your poise, eating right, you know, connecting with your teammates, diving in the fore for a loose ball, like all these different things that you can control. Right. Yeah. Right. And so when I saw that, I was like, I got to try. chance.

It didn't say average 40. That's all that. I'd be like, yeah, I don't have a chance. But coaches are looking for that. Coaches are looking for that talent, not required list. Because we can see, we know, like, if a guy can score 40 or if he's going to have the chance to score 40 be a big time score. You know? And so we're really trying to find, and this is what I try to tell people, even about the NBA.

Everybody wants to be, you know, they name the best player in the NBA. Kevin Durant, Steph Curry. you know, Kyrie, these guys that are high-level NBA players, Naii's Halliburton. Good luck. Good luck.

Like, those dudes have been those dudes their whole lot. Their whole line, right? There's a lot of people in the NBA. Most people, let's call it, 90% of NBA players are really good role players. For sure.

They do one or two or three things that are elite. Yeah. You know, now the best do it all elite. LeBron does everything at an elite level, right? So, like, do something that's going to get you on the floor. That's what I realized as a player. Like, what's going to get me on the floor is I'm going to

play hard, harder than everybody else. So, you know, I would say to any high school player, like, if you already are the guy that's getting 30 in a game, like, more than likely, that's probably going to be a role. If that's not your role, it's cool, there's a spot for you. It's so great. There's a million spots for you. You know, you just got to make sure that the coaches see that you add value to the team. Right. That's cool, man. I remember, Jeff, you call me in college telling me. like, and these dudes know all my moves, man. Oh, yeah, they watch film.

They watch film. They watch film. Like, he said the coach is calling the crossover, the left and right. Yeah. He's calling the left or right. And you told me, how did you have to get on the floor? Yeah, you got to play, I had to play defense. I started watching film.

My coach told me, they're watching film on you. They know what you're going to do. I was only playing like five minutes. I started watching film. But I had to start guarding. So I started picking up full court. And I was a guy who averaged 25 in high school. So I'm thinking I'm going to go there and do the same thing

and it wasn't the reality or I had to learn to do something, had to figure out something else. And once I figured that I was able to show what I can actually do really well because I was able to get on the floor by playing the defense. And then I got a little longer leash.

Yeah. Now I can shoot a couple threes. Exactly. And, you know, a couple threes turned into a little more. You know what I mean? Turned to a long idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

But people were, but even all the NBA people that are evaluating you, they're watching, they're watching all that. Yeah, I'm sure. And like, if you were just out there just trying to score, like, you're going to, like, they have enough people that can score, especially for a rookie, you know. Yeah. Let's go. An I-Hard Radio experience.

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On the IHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts Or wherever you get your podcasts So you were I was a scout before So like our scouting meetings I don't know if you're been a scouting meeting. I've been to maybe one or two. They're the worst meeting. But they're so boring.

I've enjoyed coaching. So I've been to a scouting meeting. So I try to tell the kids at our school or kids that I know like about the scouting, like what they look for and the things that they're, I'm like, they're watching you on the bench. I was just looking at your face to see how you react to your teammates and things like that. And as a college coach now and you being a head coach, and like you said, you look for a guy who has good leadership skills and all those things. Do you sit there and watch a kid when he comes about the game. Yeah, I watch, I watch everything. I just sent a, uh, a video of a kid we're recruiting, I sent it to him. And it was him after the whistle. So I'm watching, watching film of him from some EYBL stuff. And after the whistle, I see him going like this,

telling his team to come over. And I sent that to him. I was like, this is why we love you. And like, I know, like, you play hard. You do all that other stuff. But what's separating you from like the other guy over there is that you're bringing your team together at a time that you guys need to come together, you know? Yeah. And so, you know, we're, as a coaching style, we're talking about all those little things. And we're talking about, like, after, you know,

the ref, you know, blows a bad whistle or whatever or something happens with the coach, like you're a guy that does this. We're literally watching, what do your hands look like? Or you move on to the next thing. So those little details, all that's being watched. Would a kid's family be able to interfere with his recruiting? 100%.

Because a lot of them don't seem to realize that. Yeah, no, no. No, 100%, like we're not just recruiting the kid, we're recruiting the family too, you know? And I know for us, not every player is going to fit at Butler. That's cool. We want guys that want to be at Butler. But really for any program anywhere, like,

it's so important that, you know, that the coaches understand, like, what's happening in the whole situation. Because we all know, like, a lot of us are the, most of us are a product of our environment in some way, right? The nature and nurture, you know, there's a lot of people that have overcome some difficult environments. But, you know, if I'm, if I'm talking to a kid and the environment around them just is not, does not fit us, we don't have time to waste. Like, we're moving right on.

Yeah. I'm glad you said that. Yeah, man, that was very, very needed. For sure. These parents honestly need to know. And we're dealing at the high school level where every parent's been there before. And I tell them, like, do y'all know who your coaches are? Like, what they've been for them?

No doubt. Why don't you take that into account? So I'm glad that you said that a big East Head coach. Like, you know, we don't get a better. You know, everybody wants to prepare for. Yeah. It's where we at with. So I'm glad Buller got you.

Bullers in good hands, man. Appreciate that. Thank you. Definitely in good hands. Thank you. As we transition, you've been watching, did you watch the game one of the finals? I watched the end of the game. You watched the end of the game?

I watched the last, like, five minutes of the game. who you got winning the finals, actually? Man, that's a great question. I have not paid that much attention, honestly. It's hard to go against what New York is doing right now. Like, I mean, with the Hawks, obviously, game, was it game six this year? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We ain't going to talk about that. That was tough. But we went up to New York and beat them by 30 this year. Yeah, yeah. You know? And so, like, we knew those guys inside it out. It didn't end that way. But we play San Antonio, and we had no chance.

Twice. No chance. And so, you know, coming to the series, I'm like, San Antonio is just, they have everything. They do. They got defense. They got the guards. They got windy. I mean, this guy is generational.

Yeah. You know. The greatest they ever seen? That's what Marcus calls. He's the greatest. All right. That's what Morgan said. I don't know if I should put this whole thing out there.

But, you know, we have a lot. NBA, we have a lot of debates and stuff on the bus coaches. For sure. I don't know. It's going to get me in trouble. But I said, if Wimby stays healthy. Thank you. I think he could be.

I like where this is going. I'm not saying he will be. I think he could be the best player to ever touch the basketball. He has a chance. He got a chance. But LeBron James is crazy. We have never seen. You've never seen a dude walk up.

Like, the amount of times I've seen Wemby dribbled the ball up, wave dude. Guards that come to set a pick and roll out of the way and shoot a walk-up three. It's insane. It is insane. It don't look real sometimes. Come on, man. This guy is generational.

But, you know, like, so I'm watching, I'm like, you know, I think San Antonio, but New York, just it's just been every game. They just, they're just, they're just, they're just, they just figure it out. You're hot. Like you said, you just coached against Jalen Brunson. I'm a huge Jalen Brunson fan. Played for his dad in Minnesota, and we always would talk about J.B. And you just went against him in a play.

playoff series. I don't know if he might have film on him or whatever. I just wanted to know, like, obviously he's a tough cover, but what was your philosophy against him? Like, what were y'all thinking in the pick and roll situations? Well, we had Dyson Daniels. The benefits our team is that we had Dyson Daniels and we put him on the best player on every team. You know, I think him and Brunson ended up having a little thing where, you know, sometimes Dyson got Brunton. Yeah. Sometimes Brunton got Dyson. But, you know, the big game plan was trying to keep Dyson on Brunson as much as possible. Because that's just a, we just don't want to, you know, everybody's game playing against

Dyson. It's just trying to get Dyson off of the best player. You know, so, but it comes down to it at times. You got to put two guys on him. You got to trap them. You got to make it tough. Like, you got to, if he's going to ISO, like, you just got to go get him because, you know, that shot he made in the fourth quarter.

That's like, that's unguardable. Yeah. What are you? And, you know, he's six feet tall. Like, he's six one. And he's doing that. Like, he's, he's a tough cover. He was going to shake his hand after that.

Did y'all forcing right, left? What was it? No, I'm trying to remember. No, I don't think we force them. Yeah, just let them. Anyway, yeah, yeah. I mean, they were playing, again, Dyson, you let Dyson do Dyson.

You know, it's hard to be like, hey, Dyson. Like, Dyson, you just do, do you, make it tough? Yeah. But, you know, if anybody else was guarding, that wasn't Dyson, you know, Nikiel is a great defender as well, so the kill is kind of an exception. But anybody else besides those two,

it was like, we probably just got a double. I want to ask you questions, like you said that, about dogs on the defensive end. You were a really, really good defender, especially the on-ball defender. You really have it. Like, Assureth Thompson is my favorite defender. And you just talked about Dyson Daniels. I want to know, like, what's, like, being around Dyson, what's his mold? Like, how does he get into that, like, that mode to be one of those defenders?

Because usually naturally, I'm not a defender. And I can't imagine getting in the mode where I'm like, yeah, I'm about to just go out here and guard the best player and be excited. about it. Like, being around him, do you know, like, what kind of mode he got into? Well, Dyson, Dyson's one of the quietest guys out there. Doesn't say much, but he is a killer. Like, he is just wired differently, you know? So I don't even think he has to put himself, like, he's just wired to do that, you know?

And he's got, he's six, seven, six, eight, whatever he is, but can move his feet. Like, he can, he can, at six eight, he can guard Brunson. Yeah. So he's got the sides, but also the ability to move his feet. And then he's the best getting his hand on the ball that I think I've ever. seen. Like, dudes feel so comfortable when they get by them, and then all of a sudden, he's shooting a layup on the other end. Right.

What did he average three steals the year before or something like that? I think it was like, it was close, but it was like the most steals per game or the most total steals in like 40 years. Yeah, it was crazy. Something crazy. Yeah. Do you want all, like you talked about Gordon Hayward being skilled and thinking Duke Paz's dribble shoot at that size?

Like, you're four men, your five men. Are you looking for a lot, third skill players or? Yeah, I think with the way we want to play offensively, um, definitely. like with the four men to have skill. We want shooting as much shooting as possible. Yeah, sure. But we want shooting without, you know, uh,

we don't want the guy to be like a bad defender, you know. And so you still got to be able to defend first, but we want, we want guys that can make shots. If we can ultimately get a, you know, a center that can make shots and, you know, block shots essentially.

Yeah. We'll take that. Now, you can't always get that, you know. So then we have to look at, all right, the impact that they have on the game. If it's a guy that's, so elite, you know, rim rolling, we're going to play a lot of picking roll,

rim rolling and protecting the rim, then, you know, if he can't shoot, then he can still impact the game, you know. But ideally we would take a guy that can stand out there and make some shots because it pulls the big away from the rim, you know. And so if we can do that, that's what we're looking for. But we're going to do whatever we can to just make the team fit. When you start in your team, what's the first thing you want to recruit, like a point goal or the big? What's what you think you need to start with?

man that's a good question um it's really hard to play the game in college basketball out of point guard without multiple point guards you know just with the pressure you know the actual pressure on the ball but also the pressure in the building you know and just like the level that it rises like every possession matters you know to not have somebody that can like have poise and settle your team it's hard to operate you know so i think i think it probably starts with the point guard um you know but you also got to have somebody that you can give the ball to and they can just go get you on. Go get you.

You know, I've never met a great coach that hasn't had that. You know, like all good coaches have really good players. For sure. When you recruit a point guard, obviously you were a point guard. What are you looking for? Just what's the ultimate point guard for you? Yeah, I told our staff, don't recruit a point guard like me. Like, he is not good enough.

He is not good enough. But I do think it starts defensively. Like we want somebody that can heal the ball. Like if we're going to be a defensive team, it's kind of what I go back to. It's hard to, like, get a point guard who's not a defender and then try to make him one. Like, you need a guy who's going to, you know,

be a defender first. It always starts there for us. But then we always look at their decision making, you know. And so, you know, when I'm out, you know, watching on film or if I'm out, you know, watching AAU or high school games, whatever, I'm watching every decision that the guy makes. All right, he comes off of,

pick and roll, you know, is he able, the guy pulls in, is he able to just make that simple pass right there? Or does he over-dribble trying to find somebody to hit? If he drives, like, is he, you know, one thing I notice, you know, I haven't been watching high school basketball a lot, but in my first, you know, evaluation period a couple weeks ago, the amount of guys that hit the ground. Yeah. Like, one thing I'm watching now is, like, guys that don't fall down. Yeah. Because guys that don't fall down. Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. Guys that don't fall down. down, that means they're under control. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Guys that are just going in there. I saw so many guys going to the paint, try to jump in the air and make something to happen. I don't want you to jump in the air and make something happen. If you got to do that, that means the teammates wide over in the corner, pass it to him. You know, so I'm watching all those decisions.

And so somebody that's tough defensively that can make the decision. And then we want point guards that can shoot threes off the dribble. If you can shoot threes off the dribble, that means when we play pick and roll, they have to go over. Right. You know, now if I'm out there, they're going under every it's hard to make something to happen. So we want guys that can shoot off the dribble

because that opens up everything for everybody else. That's a show you. For sure. For sure. Yeah, man. I said, it's crazy to see that you're at Butler. We're talking about here, all this stuff right now. And it's just happy for you to be here, man.

Appreciate it. It's a blessing, man. This is a, I love Butler. Like I said, Butler changed my life. And so to be able to give back of what was given to me, is something I'm excited to do. I'm excited for the new run for Butler, man.

Like, like I said, I scouted Butler for a while. When I was scouting, I had, that was my range. So I had to go to Butler, a lot of the Big East game. So to see Butler have some fresh blood in there and some excitement, not to say the guys before there didn't do a good job. But I just know you come from that NBA background, and that gives a lot of kids excited. Like, I think that was cool for me.

In high school, we had a lot of guys that wanted to come to the high school and play because of that NBA background, they can get that love. So for you to be able to coach some of these great players, like you just talked about, Tray Young, Jalen Johnson, and Dyson, Dyson, Daniels, to be it Kimba Walker and the names goes on, and you can come there and tell them. And even for like a recruiting pitch, you can, hey, Kimba, I got a point guard right now.

That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, even being in the city, like, I work with Tyrese here when I was with the Pacers. And so to be able to, like, have those experience, you know, when I was in Charlotte, you know, Kimba and then it was Lamello. We drive to Lamello's, his rookie. year. So, you know, I listen, if you, if you're a point guard and you want to improve, like, you need to come play a bubble. Yeah. That just is what it is. Like, you're going to be put in a great position. You know, you talk to Kimmel, you talk to Lamello, you talk to Trey,

you talk to Tyrese. Talk to Ennio. That's all that. You know, I think, but it's also the same for the other players. You know, we want, there's a level of development that takes place in the NBA on a day-to-day basis that just doesn't happen anywhere else. You know, and so to be able to be with a coach that, that has developed NBA players, you know, like, you're going to come in a situation and have NBA level development. You know, maybe you end up playing in Europe. You know, maybe you don't end up playing the NBA, but you're still going to see, be able to see your progress that you make. So, man, that's, that's part of our pitch for sure. I watch you work out pretty young at 12 at night.

I was there in Oklahoma. That was a late night. Yeah, yeah, that was a late night. I was like, yo, he puts him to work because there's no way. I'm eating a pizza. Drinking Gatorade. He was there. He's down there putting in work with Trey Young at 12 in the morning.

I was like, yeah, the dedication is real. Yeah, that's your relationship, too, though. I mean, like, again, like, you, it's hard to survive as a coach in the NBA if you're not a real dude. You know, like, if anybody was fake to you as a player, you'd be like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so, like, to be able to have those relationships, like, you got to put the time in. You put the work in with the players. Like, that's what we're doing at Butler.

Same thing. Shout out to you, bro. We appreciate. Appreciate. I appreciate. I appreciate you. Man. And Butler,

y'all got a good one. We got a good one. Thank you. We'll take some bike players too now. Let's keep it real. Yeah. You know my pitch is going on. It's definitely.

Yeah, man, like I said, we all appreciate you for coming in, man. Our first college coach on 520 films. Yes. Never going to forget it. We appreciate you. Good luck to you to see him. Appreciate you. I said, again, y'all check in.

with us on Patreon. That's another episode of 520 film room. The volume. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. From My Heart Podcast, Saigon. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. It's for Vietnam.

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