Club 520 Podcast - Club 520 - Kevin Johnson tells Jeff Teague CRAZY Charles Barkley stories, GUARDING Michael Jordan in NBA Finals

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

We’re back with Season 4, Episode 27 of Club 520, where Jeff Teague, DJ Wells, and B Hen are joined by Kevin Johnson, where he tells CRAZY stories about playing alongside Charles Barkley for the Phoenix Suns, guarding Chicago Bulls legend Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals, having a heated rivalry with Kenny Smith, becoming the first NBA player to become mayor of a major city when he won the election in Sacramento, and much more!Timeline:4:14 - Welcome to the show, Kevin Johnson!6:15 - Rivalry with Kenny Smith10:50 - Crazy MLB Draft process12:00 - Hardest thing to do in sports15:15 - NBA Draft18:00 - Playing in Cleveland21:00 - Ron Harper22:00 - Dunking on Hot Rod Williams24:30 - Hakeem Olajuwon dunk story27:00 - Suns blow a 3-1 lead29:45 - John Stockton vs. Gary Payton36:00 - Phoenix Suns Finals squad40:00 - Charles Barkley43:30 - Chuck club story46:00 - Barkley writing a book story49:15 - Playing vs. Michael Jordan53:45 - Bet with Charles Barkley story56:00 - Deciding to retire from the NBA58:15 - Being elected Mayor01:00:00 - Sacramento Kings01:02:45 - Soul Food01:05:45 - 1v1 vs. Kenny Smith todayAll lines provided by ‪Hard Rock Bet#VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Stigatz here. I have a podcast empire that I have brought here to IHeart, and I'm also hosting a daily live radio show from 3 to 5 p.m. Eastern called Stegots & Company Live, which is available in podcast form, right when the show finishes every single day. You can expect a lot of laughter, great guests, a ton of calls, and a lot of fun. Listen to Stugats & Company Live and our original podcast, Stugats and Cucats and Coff.

company and God bless football. And you can check all of those out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike Delo Rocha, a host of sacred lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect, and heal. This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships, and the patterns we're ready to release.

If you're looking for clarity, connection, and healthier ways to show up in your your life. Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dulloach on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken? But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this would happen. And you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward.

Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your favorite shows. This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This is your boy, Nav Green, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs of here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season.

You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the best. Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. The Chief. It's time to rebuild. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcast.

The volume. You ever notice how everything keeps going up, rents going up, streaming services are even going up. Even your favorite burrito spot suddenly thinks sausage should cost even extra. But with Boost Mobile, you and your phone bill don't have to play the Will It Go Up Soon game? Why? Because Boost Mobile has unethed.

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My name is DJ Wells. Special guests in the building. You know the vibe. Introduce him last as usual. But first things first, child's talking about. our sponsors, man. Boost Mobile, you know the vibes get you, or you love one that new iPhone 17.

They'll put up to your crib and handle the rest. Also shout to Hard Rock Bet. I got to be here. I'm sure you tapped in. He'd be making some crazy parlays, man. We don't have some success the last couple weeks, but we're trying to get it in, man. What you got to be here?

For sure. I got y'all. Y'all know it's going down every day. Hard Rock bet, download it today. Literally going down. It's going down. And if it gets too bad called the outline. No, for sure.

All right, man. To my far left, My dog, Bishop B, here after Perales. How you were, nasty? Cool, and Nash. Let's get to it, baby. I'm excited about this one.

For sure. Yeah. I got some real questions today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're on our list, man. We always talk about people,

you know what I'm saying? Not necessarily forgotten, but like, who got buckets and people ain't too tapped in. It was like, hey, Jay, back in the days, if you really knew, was a real bucket. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, we're going to have some fun today, man. To me, my dog, young Nacho, young Teague. How you what? It's cooling, brother. This was my NBA comparison when I came into the league. They did Draft Express. They told me I was going to put like Kevin Johnson. I was like, I don't know if I got that much bounce.

You was almost there. You almost there. You could have passed the ball a little better. What else? You could have slid your feet a little bit of defensive end. You really wasn't in the passing lanes like KJ. Okay. But you're doing good.

What you did? What you need, Andy's the world when you got him? The real breakdown. Like we said, man, special guests in the building, man. Come on, multi-time all-star. Multi-time all-NBA. 12 years in NBA. And after that, my man was to marry his hometown.

Man, we got the legend. Mr. Kevin Johnson in the building. Big Dog. We appreciate you sliding on his brother. Thank y'all for having me. Come on, man. We always talked about you one of the forgotten buckets, bro. One of the forgotten buckets of the NBA.

We was around for that time period. You used to give a lot of hail to them guards back in the day. Kenny Smith, later that boy, we seen him highlights. If you have something against Kenny Smith, because every time you've seen him, it was Christmas. You want me to tell you what happened? Please. This is why we're here.

So I'm from Sacramento. Yeah. Kenny Smith and I came out the same year. We played the same position. The Sacramento Kings picked Kenny Smith number six. Wow. I go number seven in Cleveland. So I'm making.

at my hometown and I'm mad at Kenny Smith. So that's where the beef started, way back then. Yeah, every time I played when I had that little chip on my shoulder. Yeah. I got to get Kenny. I got to make them regret this. That is crazy that your hometown don't grab you. That's what I'm saying.

That is wild. And I blame them on Kenny. It wasn't even his fault. They didn't think it. No, but you got to take it out on him, though. Did he know about this? It was on one side? He saw the board six, six, Kenny, seven KJ.

Yeah, he saw it. Like, did you ever say anything in a game? Like, I'm at you. Like, I'm going at you every time. I sent that message. It was unspoken at that point. Okay. I respect.

And that's crazy, because you had an opportunity to be selected by a hometown. Yeah. They didn't spend the block for a long time. Yeah. I ended up playing for them. That's all good. That is crazy, man. Let's talk about a lot.

You can say, man, from Sacramento. What was the hoops scene out in California at the time period? So when I was growing up, L.A., New York, big markets, tons of talent, which makes sense. Right. Sacramento was like French lick. Ain't anybody thinking about Sacramento. And the only player that ever came out was Bill Cartwright. So he went to USF, played in the league, did great things.

But there wasn't a lot of scouts and exposure and talent. It was before the AAU tournaments and all those sorts of things. So my first real exposure is we went down to L.A. for a big all-star tournament. And I got a chance to play against Reggie Miller and obviously all these great players. but prior to that, Sacramento never got exposure. You fast forward to the day, it's no different than the other city around the country because there's eyes on all the talent everywhere.

But back then, I was one of those kids that most people didn't know Cabal. I got lucky enough to get a scholarship to Cal Berkeley, which was great. I wanted to go to Cal because it was in a Pac-10. Now it's Pac-12 and now it's no longer anything. But that was the best conference back then. So not a lot of exposure, but, you know, we tried to wrap the best we could. Damn. To Cal.

heard you play baseball too for a little bit yeah I was two sport um played baseball in high school my first love you hear this a lot my first love was baseball um I played in college I got drafted in college I had to make a choice between one or the other yeah and even though baseball with my first love basketball I felt connected me to the black community okay like in a different way yeah and that's always been my North Star so I chose I chose basketball it worked out I said I got drafted high and got drafted, played in Cleveland for about six months. Cup of coffee? No, cold weather. How was that like draft process, though, for the MLB for you? Like, they just give you a card. Did they tell you to pull up? Like, what was that like?

Yeah, I think I was unique. I think because in high school, I was going to get drafted probably by the Yankees. They knew I was going to go to college. Oh, okay. And they were right, because I'm about to get a free scholarship for college. Like, I got to do that. You know, that's how I was raised. So I knew I was going to play basketball in college.

NLB knew I was going to play. So they didn't draft me coming out of high school. Oh, okay. Then when I got to college, I played one year. And they're like, just in case this brother does not play basketball, we're going to draft them. So I got drafted by the Oakland A's. And the way they do it, they just tell you, they talk to you before. They say, we're probably going to draft you.

We don't know what round. Yeah. I get drafted. I'm going into my senior year of college. They paid me. So they paid me 40 grand. So basically NIL, you know, I got paid 40 grand back then. So I lost my scholarship.

But that 40 grand, I was able to take 10 of it, pay for my college, take another 10, buy a little car, make another 10, send home, and then save 10K. And then during the summertime between my junior and senior year, I played for the Oakland A's minor league baseball team during the summer. So that was kind of my, it was a little bit unique. That's hard. But I got to put my foot in it, got to taste it. Again, I love baseball, but basketball was just, it was just. just my calling. You know, how you just know I was supposed to play on the big stage.

We always had this question. Like, what's harder hitting a baseball? Good question. You think that's the hardest thing to do is to hit a baseball? Yeah, hit the baseball is hard. Yeah. He said he can do it. He probably could, but it's still hard.

You think, what we say was harder? Like kicking a field goal or hitting a baseball? Was that what we're comparing? Or hitting a home one? Or hitting the pressure of hitting a free throw, like in the finals. No. Which we know. free throw is just repetitive.

You don't put your time in. You're going to be good. If you got mental discipline, focus, all that. You don't get caught up in the fans and the pressure and all that. It's just, you know, put the work. You say that from an excellent shooter standpoint. There's a lot of people who get up there on that line boy. They're 75% shooter.

And that crowd rocking. He's smoking them. We just had an incident when we had a kid on our high school team. Got fouled. Down one, had two free throws. The crowd was going crazy. He made one. Yeah.

But we was talking about the pressure of it. Yeah. I wasn't trying to say the pressure wasn't real because it is. I'm saying if you shoot 85% from the line, you're probably going to hit 85% of the pressure shots. They're very few are going to fold and go from 85 to 50 in every pressure shot. And if you're shooting 70%, you're going to drop a little bit during the pressure just because it is what it is.

But I'm saying hitting a baseball is like hard. You know, a slider, like, come at you. If you right hand, it comes at you right and then break over at the middle. And that's a hard pitch to hit. For sure. I had to go, I had to start switch hitting. Dang. So I can see it from a different angle.

Yeah, bro. You were gifted, bro. For you to have a backup plan, it's crazy. If I don't make an NBA, you know, I go to the NBA. That's crazy. Yeah. I couldn't hit the slides. I learned how to hit my left hand.

That's crazy. I never really heard too many basketball players, though, that played baseball and basketball. It's usually like football and baseball. It's true, but again, I'm, y'all ain't even call me an OG. GES. So thank you. I know it's coming in a minute. But like, it was on the way. I know it's coming. But like back in my era, Danny Aange played for the Toronto Blue Jays

and the Boston Celtics. Oh, that's, yeah, he did. So I go back to that era where he did it, I'm like, if he did it, I could do it. So I had somebody that did it before me, to your point. It don't happen all the time. But I think this is what most people know. You all know this. Man, athletes that are good

are good in multiple things. it don't matter what it is. It may not be, to your point, baseball and basketball, but it could be basketball and football. You can't tell him he can't do nothing. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Athlete.

You can't tell him either. They play ping pong, they play pool. There's just a lot of, that's what athletes don't get enough credit for. These brothers can ball at multiple things. It's just not they one sport. You watch a highlight of LeBron running around playing football, and you're like, bang.

This brother can be a tight-in. There ain't no doubt about it. No, for sure. For sure. Now the NFL players, they're going to see this to get mad, because they all say, we can't hoop.

Y'all can't play football. Yeah, they always said that, but it ain't true. It doesn't matter anyway. Like you said, college, going through that process, killing.

What was that draft process? Like, knowing that you're about to go into the NBA, because you was obviously a high pick number seven. I was, you know, taking a step back,

going to Cal Berkeley. You didn't get NBA scouts coming all the time to our games. But when they did come, if you knew they was in the stands, you got to show out. You know, you got that,

like, I got to represent. Got your shit off. So I ended up getting invited to, it was called the Aloha Classic back then. So all the top players played in Hawaii after the season was over. And at that point, I was like a late first round, early second round pick. And I knew I wanted to try to move up in the draft and I had to play really well. Do you all remember the name Lester Conner? Yeah, he was my coach.

Oh, was he? Yeah, Leser called me all the time, actually. L.C. Yeah, shout out. So Lester played at Golden State, played at Oregon State, was in the Bay Area. So I asked them. I said, look, I'm about to go to this a lower classic tournament. What do I need to do to stand out?

He said, everybody going to be trying to score. Just play defense. I said, huh? He said, play defense. Pick up full court. Damn. Every single possession. Now, I wasn't known as the defensive player,

but I just thought that advice was so practical, right? I was always going to score. That was a given. I picked up full court every single. It was seven days. You played two a days. But you got to practice. scrimmaged in the morning, then you had a game at night.

I picked up full court every day for seven days. Couldn't walk at the end, was sore, got outstanding best defensive player, and moved up from late first round to early, second round, to a lottery pick. Just by that advice from Lester. And look at some of the names that was at this camp. You had David Robinson, Reggie Williams, Scotty, Hippen, old Polanis, Derek McKee, Ruggie, Mugsy Bowes. It was some hitters in there.

See, like, all those guys didn't all go. All those guys were my class. They didn't all go play in this tournament. But, like, Scotty Pippen was another brother. He went, nobody knew he was. Nobody knew who Scotty was. So we were the two that kind of stood out amongst the players that were there. And then Kenny Smith didn't go.

So then I had another chip on my shirt. He doesn't believe. I can't even play against him and show him who I am. So, yeah, but we had a, you know, we had a super talented class, as you can see there. And Ray Miller, who was, you know, game busters. And he went late, you know, mid. Second round, mid-first round here, Indiana. Yeah.

Mark Jackson? Yeah. That's a long time. Hey, hey. Hey. You went, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, O.J., but you went to the league when I was born. You went to the league when I was born.

So I got. I was born in 87, O.J. Oh, that's a year to Monty. You got drafted 40 years ago, we got to have a birthday party. Why are you rubbing this? I'm just saying. I was 88. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You wouldn't even thought of. I was a little of it. You would have a twinkle of the eye, man. You get drafted. I said a cup of coffee over there in Cleveland. You get to Phoenix.

What was that like? So a cup of coffee in Cleveland. Yeah. Drafted. Yeah, I learned two things. I get drafted. I go to Cleveland. It's heck of cold.

So I'm not, that weather would just mess with me because I went used to, you need a, again, I said, wind chill factor and defroster. And it was all kind of terminology. I didn't understand. So anyway, I was dying to get out of there for this reason. I went to Cleveland. They had Mark Price as a point guard. They had Ron Harper as a two guard.

Then they had Hot Rod Williams at the four spot. And they had Brad Doherty at the five. So they had like this four or five deep team that was together for a year. So when I get drafted, all the Cleveland players were pissed off because they had Mark Price. So I came to an environment It wasn't super welcoming And you have bad weather

And then I get there What's that? The weather hold it down Oh my God So then I get there And I'm not playing well And I'm thinking Mark Price didn't have a great rookie year

But right he out playing me like this Every day in practice And this dude ain't even that good Because it was before he became good I'm like this is going to be a tough run for me So I'm putting the time in Working hard First one in the gym with Mark West

Last one to leave with Mark West doing it day in and day out. And I wasn't getting a lot of run. I was very frustrated. And the team was solid, but I couldn't break through that. They had that little club. They had a, they had their boy. And I couldn't break through it.

And I wasn't bawling at that next level. So when I was there, my first big lesson was, I just thought basketball was a game. It was a sport. Let's have some fun. I overheard some people that don't play a lot. They're like, this new dude is going to take money off my table. Like, I'm trying to get a number.

another year in the league so I can get a pension or I'm trying and I was like dang they look at I just thought we'd play it but the people that were you know not in the rotation trying to get another year or two in the league so I realized at that point it was a business yeah so that was my first lesson I learned I was like okay I got to I got to flip the script on how I look at this and then secondly when I got traded my head coach from Cleveland was Lenny Lillenny Wilkins Hall of Fame point guard Wayne Embry was a gym I got traded to Phoenix number one I was excited because of weather right like I'm coming back to some sunshine. And number two, I said to myself,

I'm never going to walk on eggshells again, and I'm going to act like I'm the new sheriff in town in Phoenix. So I went there with gangbusters in my mind. I wasn't going to hold back. Because if I don't make it in the league, I'm at least doing my way. And if I do make it, it's going to be because I truly going to be who I am. So when I got to Phoenix, man, I was on a mission.

Okay. Not to fast forward too far. Is this why you ducked on how Rob Williams? Yeah. Okay. One of your historic highlights. That's why you caught him black guy. Because he wasn't nice to me in Cleveland.

Can you say, Receipts. Receipts. You all hell of grudgy. I still got a couple more going to come out on the show. So, like, we know Ron Harper from, like, we're younger.

I was so you, you the OG. That's number two. But now we know Ron Harper from like the Bulls era, right? Can you, like, explain to some of the people how good he was before the injury? Young Ron had that belt. Man, when he was coming out of Miami, Ohio, in college, they called him the second coming of Michael Jordan.

That's how talented he was. That's how athletic he was. It's like Randy Martin. He came from a school that nobody knew, and he was that good. So he gets to Cleveland, and he got all this athleticism, he talented, but he learning. Because, you know, the NBA is a lot of adjustments. You can't do what you do in college. Not too many players game just automatically transfer at the same level.

So he in Cleveland, he's doing his thing. He balling, but not at the next level. And then he had a knee injury. So then that slowed him up. He wasn't as athletic. He went from a superstar to being a really good team player. But everyone in Cleveland expected him to be at the next level, which he wasn't, like, athletically. But then when he went to Chicago and L.A., now his whole basketball IQ came out.

And that brother just fit in and was the missing piece. Yeah. Man, mad props to Ron. And he was one of the veterans when I got there that actually gave me a little love, talked to me a little bit, and was supportive. So I've always thought very favorably of Ron. No, I was sure. Hops. Now it's crazy.

His kids are in the league now. Yeah, that's what it was like to see. Yeah, it's so crazy. We got to play this. That's funny. I didn't know what's the backstory. It is even better now. Revenge.

Come, my boy lacking. Hey. Oh, yeah, you were disrespectful. That jersey so crazy. Yeah. You got one of the most iconic jerseys. of all time, bro. That number seven, bro.

That number seven is crazy. Huh. Yeah, you got a tech today for doing that. Hanging on the room? That's hilarious. Where did that come from? Like, you driving the ball like that, like, that fierce and, like, trying to dunk on the big guys. Like, dunking on Hakeem, dunking on ride.

Like, did that come from, like, growing up? Did you play 21 and stuff like that? I was skinny in high school. school, like really skinny. And I was always fast. Like fast was was my thing. But I wasn't super athletic in terms of jumping, my jumping ability. So my senior high school, I had all my classes done and they let me take a off class off campus class at the junior college. And it was a weight training class. So I go to this weight training room and I just work on my my leaps. I work, I'm doing squats. I'm doing a leaping machine. I'm doing that over and over. Man, I went to

the court one day and I was just like, boom, and I couldn't dunk off two feet before. And then once I got that, I grew into it. I got a little bit stronger. And then that just became one of my weapons. I didn't do it all the time. You know, to me it was try to make a statement. It was for to show that you fearless. It's to try to change the momentum of a game, momentum of a game. Or you got to, if you're going to dunk, you got to dunk on somebody big. If you're little, you're dunk on some, a point guard, that ain't, you ain't going to get no, you know, for me, it was always, man, if there's a big dude, I'm going to try to send a message.

So that's where it came from. I ain't going to lie back in the days when you. play out of them. Super scary because they used to white boys out. Like, I know you had some in the moment.

That's why he said fearless. Yeah, you had to be going to die for that dump. Man, playing the plastic. Imagine playing the pistons and trying to dump. But you know,

you all know how this is, though. It's true. They will wipe you out. So I knew how to get to where I needed to be and there was no wiping out if I got there.

Okay. Right? You know, if I can get to that spot, you can't walk. Now, if I take off from out here, anything is.

So I had to get close enough that I knew if I went for it, I'm in control what I can do there, even if they foul me. But if I took off too far, then to your point, anything could happen at that point. I just had to pick my spots. I had to be smart about it. Yeah, go ahead and load us up.

We're here. Oh, he got some of the craziest highlights. Come here, Dream. Conference finals, too? Yeah. Set the vibes up. Kitty Smith getting blown by. Yeah, you legit have bounce.

That is going crazy. Hell yeah. That's West. Paul, small, baby. That's Wesley person right there. Wesley person. Oh, that's crazy.

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Stygots here. I have a podcast empire. It continues to grow, and I have brought it here to IHard. I'm also doing a live radio show from 3 to 5 p.m. Eastern because my wife wanted to kick me out of the house. It's called Stugatsy Company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes, every single day. Some of the biggest names in sports. A lot of phone calls.

I love you guys this show. It's one of my favorite. A lot of interaction. Guys not taking themselves too seriously. Those are just some of the things that you can expect from Stugatson Company and Stugats and Company Live. So listen to Stugats and Company Live and our original podcast. Please subscribe, rate, and review.

Stugats and Company and God bless football. Taylor's livelihood depends on it. do it today, and you can check all of those out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey there, this is Dr. Jesse Mills, director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health and host of the mailroom podcast. Each January guys everywhere make the same resolutions. Get stronger, work harder, fix, what's broken? But what if the real work isn't physical at all? To kick off the new year, I sat down with Dr. Steve Polter, a psychologist with over 30 years experience,

helping men unpack shame, anxiety, and emotional pain they were never taught the name. In a powerful two-part conversation, we discuss why men aren't emotionally bulletproof, why shame hides in plain sight, and how real strength comes from listening to yourself and to others. Guys who are toxic, they're immature, or they've got something they just haven't resolved. Once that gets resolved, then there comes empathy and compassion. If you want this to be the year, you stop powering through pain and start understanding what's underneath, listen to the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. A new year doesn't mean erasing who you were. It means honoring what you've

survived and choosing how you want to grow. It means giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help. I'm Mike Dolorotcha, host of Sacred Lessons. This podcast is a space for men to talk openly about mental health, grief, relationships and the patterns we inherit, but don't have to repeat. Here, we slow down. We listen. We learn how vulnerability becomes strength and how healing happens in community, not in isolation. If you're ready to let go of what no longer serves you and step into the year with clarity,

compassion, and purpose, sacred lessons is your companion on your healing journey. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delo Roach on America's number one. Podcast Network, IHeart. Follow sacred lessons with Mike Delo Rocha and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. This show contains information subject to, but not limited

to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This is your boy, Navring, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here.

But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoff. They're cheese.

Oh, it's a rap. It's time to rebuild. Who your MVP right now, then? Drake May up there. Josh Allen up there still. Oh, my boy, Matthew Stafford. Where did he vote Knicks at? He ain't too far behind.

He did all this talk. What Matthew Stafford is doing statistically, bro, is crazy. Bro, you know I ain't no Josh Allen fan. But Matthew Stafford got better weapon. Caleb Williams. Hey, he should be in that conversation. In what conversation? He should be in it.

Listen to broken play with him. with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the I Heart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or whatever you get your podcast. So what happened here, again, you know, we play here, you got memories, right? So we play in the Western Conference Finals. Five plays before I penetrate, I pass,

Charles goes up, Hakeans blocks it. Next time I come down, I penetrate, I pass the A.C. Green goes, Akeen blocks it. Next time, you know, we're going down, we're going from being up one to down one to down three. Next time I penetrate, I pass a damn Marley go up. Get a block.

I'm like, all right, give me the ball. So I head in my head right then. Like, if I get a chance, I'm going for it. And we at home too because our crowd is starting to feel like this game is getting away from us. So I take a shot. It comes back. Danny Ains gets it and tosses to me. And I can see that I have a straight line to the basket.

I mean, Kenny was right here. I guess so you didn't see. Kenny was right here. Kenny, you know, I love you. but you're right here. So I push you out of the way. And I had a straight line to the basket. And I knew Akeen was going to take me for granted.

Like he wasn't thinking that I'm going to come in there and try to. He's not going to think that. Yeah. So I knew the element of surprise was going to be there. So I go, I go. And he turned around. He's see me. He come over and, you know, I'm about to get a fifth block in a row.

And I go up. He's going up. We're going up. Then he started going down. I'm still going, bam, right? And I do it. I go crazy. The fans go crazy.

everybody going crazy. Akeem going like this all into the corner. And then later on, he'd come up to me. He was like, you got me, Little Mon. This is Akeme. Don't try it again, Little Maude. Don't try it. I was cocky, right.

I was thinking to myself, I only got to do it once. And then I went to the streetline. And, you know, it was a signature moment. We ended up losing a series. But it was a, it was a statement to let them know that we wasn't going back away. And we meant business. And I'm representing the little guys there. Now, you play both of these teams, not to fast for too much.

You play that Bulls' Ninety, obviously, and the finals will talk about that shortly. You also play against that Rockets team. They always say that Gap year with MJ, do you think that the Bulls would have took care of that Rocket's team? Yes. So it's just Rockets fans who believe that, basically. Because we had Mad Max on here.

You know, Mad Max, he wanted to smoke. He stood on business, though. He said, yeah, we didn't handle them anyway. I love me to Matt Max. Here's the thing. Here the thing. Let me give you my take. So, you know, we say this as athletes.

Every team when you start a season think you can win a championship. But only a few of them really know they got a shot. We had a three-year window in Phoenix. In my 12 years, we had a three-year window. 92, 93, we lose to the Bulls, which we can talk about. 93-94, we lose to Houston who won it. And 94-95, we lost to Houston who won it. So that was our three-year window.

We lose to Chicago. Fine. We up Houston, 3-1. Didn't nobody even clueling the Houston Rockets think they're going to win that series. I'm walking around the mall into Galleria. Man, the fans was like, oh, my God, this team is so lame, and they didn't support them. They was having playoff games in. The fans wasn't even coming out.

Wow. So they forgot all that. So then they win a game pretty soon as 3-3. They end up beating us. The fans now are on board, right? They're going crazy. And then they went on and did some great work for two years in a row. But there was a moment there that they were not that Houston Rockets team at that point.

They became that Houston Rocket team playing against us. And then went on and, you know, won two championships, did a great. But I think we all think, I mean, Chicago, until you beat them, you can't say you would have beat them. Yeah. Yeah. Now, King was just so crazy, though, bro. Oh. I think that would have been a good matchup, bro.

One of the best. They didn't have a bite for him. Of course, they didn't have a bite for Jordan, but respect. Yeah. It had been a great match. match up. Yeah, Akim,

obviously the most skilled big man to ever play the game, man, footwork. Oh, man. I'm going to put you on the spot, man. Who's a better defender? Stockton or Gary Payton?

Gary Payton. By the last lot? Oh, yeah. Who was harder to play against? For me, personally, they both had their strength. You know,

Gary and I played against him. He was at Oregon State. Yeah. And I was in Pac-10, so we played him then. I didn't like him then. He didn't like me. That's real talk, right?

And then we end up pros and I ain't like them then. And we would just battle, right? Time in and time out. And I remember this really funny story, Danny Aange was on our team and Gary Payton scored. And Gary Payton said, you can't guard me, you can't guard me? And Danny, he said, we ain't trying to guard you, Gary. You ain't got no offensive game. And Gary went by the Cirque at that point.

And, and, you know, he got to nickname the glove because of how well he, you know, how good a defender he was against me. Like his cousin gave him the nickname the glove because I couldn't get away from him. So Gary was a, and now we talk more now than we did when we play each other. So I don't dislike him now. But when we play each other, I don't like you. We like, this ain't like we friend, buddy, buddy kissing all that. That's not it. Now afterward, Gary and I are mad pros, big respect.

And he was a tougher defensive player for me to guard against or for him to guard me. Stockton was tougher because their overall team approach and how they played. They played, you know, they had Sloan as a coach. He had Carl Malone and they was crafty and they knew how to play good team defense in a way that was difficult for a point guard to play against as well. No way. We'll get Barbie here in a second. But John Stockton, they said some of the stats is cooked. They said some of the stats is cooked.

He was on the court. Is it cap? That's why I had to ask. Because that assists record, it's crazy. That is his record. It would never be touched. Yeah, he, you know, going back, I didn't like Stockton either. I had, like, nobody.

Like, nobody's under 6-3. But like Stockton, man, we just had these. And again, you go back to our era in the late 80s and the 90s, the Western Conference was stacked. You didn't have just one team. You had like six or seven deep. And Stockton and I in Utah and Phoenix, year after year after year.

And when we beat them in one playoff to advance, you know, stocked and call me. Afterward and just said, man, you're the best point of Gardner League, I just want to give you your props. And I was just like, so that professionalism, that even though we didn't like each other,

you can put that aside for a minute. And that, to me, is what I learned from him and other, magic and other players too, that you can battle, you can go at it, but there's a time to give the respect. It don't have to be during a season. It don't have to be during our careers.

Yeah. But like right now, that brother was legit. So I talked to him probably about six months ago for an hour on the phone. That's more than I talked to him my whole 12 years playing against him. That's crazy. Because we was battling. I ain't trying to be nice. I ain't trying to ask about your family down.

I know if you're asking you about point guards, but like, and you didn't like anybody on a sister, and I respect that. But was there anyone when you, like, mashed up, you was like, like, Mons was like Derek Rose. But I was like, yeah, it's probably going to be a bad night tonight. Was it anybody like, you was like, man, not that you dread playing against, but you know you was going to have to be up for it. Like, would it be Zeke, any of them? Tim Hardaway. Didn't like Tim.

And now I love him. Because we would battle like crazy, man. You don't understand, man. Tim by the sit in the clip back. Oh, yeah. He's like you to like that cross up. You got two steps. He got me 20.

Yeah, y'all see. He got me up. Oh, yeah, he got me plenty of time. Yeah. That's why he liked it, right? But, man, we just had battles. So to your point, I never thought that I was going to play against a point guard that I could not get the best of. I just didn't.

I could score. You know, I could score and I was athletic. I knew it was going to battle. I knew I had to go to sleep. Yeah, that's what I mean. Against Gary Payton, against Tim Hardaway, against John Stockton, of course, Magic and Isaiah. Yeah. Against Terry Porter.

in Portland. Had a burner. Derek Harper and Dallas. These are brothers, man. It was just a physical game back then. So all those guys, we was balling day in and day out across the board.

So I had to get extra sleep against some of them. They see some of them when I like met them when I got when I got in the league or whatever. Like see Derek Harper. I ain't know he was that big. Yes. Like I'm like. He's six six. Yeah.

He was strong. He was like big like a big person. I'm like he got two in Dallas. I was like you was playing point. Blackman. Yeah. He like, yeah, I would have put you on a block. young fella. I'm like, you sure it was.

I'm sure. I'm proud of the shit. Did that kind of scare you a little bit when you got to the league and seen how big he was? Or did you already know him prior to that? Like, I didn't know how big people were, to your point, and I didn't know how athletic they were. So like when you play

college, if Jeff's right there and my man Malcolm over there, if I'm about to pass it to him, if I'm about to pass it to him, he can't get to it in college. Yeah. Because of the distance. And the pros, he's so much faster and longer and quicker,

that same pass is going to get intercepted. For sure. So I learned out, I was like, whoa. But not only were they bigger and stronger, the athletic, the IQ, the time, like all of that, man, it just took me a minute to adjust because these brothers can play. Yeah, that's true.

And nowadays, I mean, the skill level of these folks playing now is just off the chart. We were just watching Wimby earlier. Oh, my God. Wimby not real person. That's crazy. Now, we about talks a real ball. Barbie, sorry to keep you waiting.

A bartender, man, got us some drinks, man. While we over here yapping. No liquor today. No liquor today. That day episode, we're going to keep it sober. Yeah. So we have the fast break peach tea. Okay.

I'm okay. Thank you. Unless you want to put it there for a prop. Yeah. For a second reason. Appreciate your bar. What's in here? So we have peach green tea.

Okay. Lemonade and mint, lemons, a little bit of peach puree. Okay, sure. I guess then. Right on, B. Appreciate you, B. Now, we talked about it, the final strip.

But before we get there, Y'all squad that made that run to the finals was crazy. I don't know if everybody's too familiar, but you, Chuck, like, just go over that squad, how good y'all are. I think y'all were one of a forgotten teams because y'all was really, really good. They were special. Yeah, we had, I was the point.

Yeah. You had Dan Marley coming off as a two. Bounce. You had Dan Age coming off the bench at two. Yeah. Then we had Chuck, Charles. We had Mark West and Oliver Miller. Oliver Miller.

And then we had Cedric Sabalas. in the three spots. That's my guy. And then Richard Dumas in the three spot. And then A.C. Green coming off. AC. And then we had Wayman Thistdale. You understand?

We had a, then we brought Danny Manning in. In this three-year spot, man, we had the most talented squad in the league. And I know you play with A. A.C. Green came over. So we just had a squad, man, for those three years. We had that window and we couldn't get over the hump. And, you know, people ask me all the time about what regrets do I have.

about playing in the league. I have one now that I didn't have then. It was like I didn't help as a point guard during that, those playoff runs when some of my teammates were struggling. Not me, not Charles. We could always get our shots off. But you had somebody like a Wayman Tisdale or some other teammate. When they weren't balling,

I didn't figure out how to get them involved to get them to where they normally play. That would have got us over to hump. That's something I regret deeply. this story with Magic Johnson. Y'all remember Michael Thompson? Clay's dad played in the league. So, Magic, my rookie year, we didn't make the playoffs. I got traded from Cleveland to Phoenix.

We didn't make the playoffs. I'm going to L.A. I'm watching L.A. play the Dallas Mavericks in the playoffs after our season is over, but they're still playing. Dallas is up like two or three games to one. Cream starts. Cream starts as a center. And then Michael Thompson comes off the bench and plays the majority of the minutes

because Cream is at the end of his career. Michael Thompson is having a horrendous series, playing horrible. Every open shot, he hit that mid-range. He wasn't making any of these shots. And one play happened that changed my perspective on basketball. Magic Johnson got a steel at Half-Court. He's going down to lay it up. He all by himself.

He stopped. And he waved Michael Thompson at Half-Court to come down. So Mike Thompson come lumbered at Magic gives it to him. He lays it up. His confidence at that point went off the chart. Started hitting the shots, started going harder for the rebounds, started making tip plays and all of this, because Magic knew they were not going to win against the Dallas Mavericks

unless they had Michael Thompson playing his best game. As a player, I saw that, and I did not do that for my team to the degree I should have in that three-year window, and that's a regret. I mean, nobody going to say that. But for me, I know that there's a couple players that was struggling during those playoff series. I didn't do that extra to get them to their level, and that's a regret I have. No, that's dope.

That's dope. Because you are damn near the most important piece out there, the leader. Yeah, and there's a point guard. I mean, you just know, like, Weiman Tisdale. You all remember Wayman? Indiana, like a ball. And he just couldn't get it going during some of these toughest times. And I didn't, I couldn't figure it out.

And that just. What's some game that you, you said help him out, but what you mean, though? Can you kind of break that down, like what you could have done to get them going? I could have done too. Talk to him or what? I could have done two things with Wayman. I'm using Wayman as example. I had AC Green.

I had a number of players that's all applied to. But take Wayman. Man, if this brother got the ball on the block and he got a chance to get over the shoulder he wanted to get over, you can't stop it. There's nothing you can do. But if he missed one or two shots, then we went away from him. And now he's not getting 40 minutes a game. He didn't take advantage of that five minutes period of time he had. So then he off.

out the game. Okay. And I'm saying, I got to find a way to get them another shot or bring them out. Let's do a pick and roll. I'm going to come off. Your man going to your man going to double team. You roll to the basket. I'm going to give you a bounce path. Get you a layup. Like there's all kind of little things.

But I was in the moment and we're trying and the coach is pulling them out and I'm like, yeah, we got somebody and we're going. And then you look back at it. I'm like, man, we didn't take advantage of our most important weapon. Where Cedric Sabalas, I did that for Cedric. and I could do that for Richard Dumas.

Charles and me were always going to be fine. But I did not do that. So that's an example for me. I want to ask you this question. For a lot of people at home, especially kids, only know Charles Broccoli from being on TNT. They don't know how good he was to win the MVP during the time when Michael Jordan was in the NBA.

Like, could you please speak to Charles Barkley's great and especially being your teammate? Because that was a crazy one, two punch. Oh, crazy one. Man, he did things at 6, 4 and 3 quarters. Yeah, I know how much. I know his real high. four and three quarters that nobody who's ever played this game is done.

Thanks. Ever. If you go back to Charles at Auburn, played at 300 pounds at Auburn. That was crazy. A round mound, a rebound at Auburn. In 1984, he had a chance to make the Olympic team coming out of Auburn with Jordan and those got on a team. Wow.

And Bobby Knight at the time. Yeah, at Bobby Knight. Like, he overweight and he don't play D and didn't make the team. And he outplayed everybody. So I remember being in college going, man, if I ever meet that brother, I'm going to look out for him. I'm going to do my part because he should have made. So he got robbed back then, but that's how good he was coming out of Auburn. You fast forward, man, the thing that this brother could do on the court to shoot threes, can dribble the ball up to court.

How are you going to rebound, out rebound dudes that are seven feet night in and night out at six, four and three court? Okay, I'll round up to six five. Like, that's just not possible. Yeah. There was nothing that this dude couldn't do on the, and he wasn't afraid of the big moment. He wasn't afraid of taking a big shot. He wasn't afraid to call it out on the court.

Like, this is a brother you want to go to war with. And now y'all got me on my second regret. Man, I hate watching him on TNT and now ESPN with Kenny and Charles. I mean, Kenny and Shaq, and they get on him about not winning a championship. That one, that one, like, that one, like he deserved an NBA championship. My brother fits in that league of elite players that have won an NBA champ. And the fact that he does it pisses me off every time I see him on TV. Because if I could change.

Because I would, it's crazy to sell. I give up me winning a champion for him winning it. Because that brother deserves it, man. What this is doing on court night in night out, man, was not, was exceptional. And I got to watch him get teased. That's forever. And those guys. He's so crazy.

He didn't go crazy. You ain't got no defense for. We can say all we want. Well, Carl Malone didn't win a championship and all these great players. That brother's a champion. And it's sad that he don't have that ring to signify that.

That one pisses me off too. We got any off-core stories with Chuck that you can share? How many you want? I guess one-one. I just probably, yeah. You want one? Just one or two. You beat two.

That's my God, man. I'd like to hear good things about Chuck. That's what I say, if you can share. Oh, I'm a sharing. So a funny one was, I got so many of these. All right. So Charles, this is a two part, but it's one story.

Charles was known for going out. Yeah. Like, for real going out. And it got to the point where it was just a big joke. So he would be coming in Saturday morning, which is Sunday morning. at like 7 a.m. Wow.

And I'd be going out because I'm going to church. So he coming from the strip clubs this way and I'm going to church that way. So, you know, just the thing. It was the A guy who I pray for me. Cool.

But my point on this one is, my point on this one is the fact that I'm crossing each other. And it was just like, it was like, look, I got you. But when Charles went to the club, you know, people get this liquor courage. Yeah. Right?

They're looking at him like he ain't, he ain't as big as I think he is. And he can't do this and he can't do this. So people just challenged him all the time. So this one time, I believe it was in Orlando. This dude saw Charles. They got into a little bit through some water. Oh, on Charles. And his guest.

Charles looked at him. I wasn't there, but Charles looked at him. I was like, picked this dude up and threw him out the window. No, no. For real. Thule him out the glass window. For real.

Charles Barkley? Yeah, picked him dude up and threw him out the window and then looked at him and said, I hope you're hurting right now because you deserve to be hurting. That is crazy. He get arrested an hour later. True story. He get arrested an hour later. Chuck stayed on the same.

Back then, you can't do it. Like, back then, you just, you had to wait it out. Yeah. So he get arrested. Then the judge about to give him his sentencing, right? And like, Charles, Barclay, do you have any regrets? Is there anything you'd like to say? He said, I have one regret.

I wish we were on the second floor. Come on, come on, come on. In the court. Crazy. That's crazy. That's wild, man. That's one, Charles story. No one.

I got a whole bunch of you. It's not how he's about to get dark at the end. Wait, the other funny one real quick is he came out with a book, right? He wrote a book and he said all these things about his teammates and different things. One day a reporter said, hey, Charles, I'm looking at your book and you said, X, Y, Z. Charles said, I didn't say that. And the reporter, let me read you what you said. And Charles said, man, I got misquoted.

In the book he wrote. He said he got misquoted. Man, he was a true, man. So, man, he got this just wit and this thing about him, man, it's just so beloved. And on a serious side of it, everything I've done as it relates to running for mayor, who's the first person there to support me, Charles Barkley. I opened a restaurant, Fixing Soul Kitchen, out to LA. Who's the first person there for Grant, Charles.

Man, his heart is so big. And what I think he presents that is not as prevalent as I would like. to see today, he's not afraid to speak his mind on social issues. He's not afraid to take a stand on things that may not be politically correct. And his role model growing up was, you know, Muhammad Ali.

And Charles is the modern day Muhammad Ali. And I don't say that lightly. Like, he just got this gift and this likability and you just root for him, whether you agree with them or not. One time his family, Charles was talking about maybe voting for George Bush, who's a Republican, right? And his family getting on. You can't vote for a Republican.

You can't vote for Bush. He's for the rich people. And Charles, like, beg your pardon, I am rich now. So he just so much of that, of that. That's Chuck. Well, people don't know is what he did for MOK Day. Oh, my. Like, just look it up if you're not familiar.

Like, I know we see Charles walking on TV, but he put the groundwork in him a long time ago for a lot of political issues and speak his mind for real. Yeah, and again, y'all always asked, you know, some guests, like, for me, it was like, when did I realize it was a business? Yeah. I told you in Cleveland when I heard them saying I'm taking food off some of the players' table because they don't get a paycheck. Yeah. I go to Phoenix. I get traded from Cleveland in Phoenix. Yeah.

Phoenix had just got an MLK Day in 97, 98. And the governor there, Evan Meekam, said, I'm going to rescind it. I'm like, how are you going to take away a black person's celebrity day that we celebrate? and in honor of Martin Luther King. So he took it away. He had the ability to take it away. So then everybody in the community that owns sports teams, all the owners came to us as players and said,

hey, can you help raise some money? Because we're going to try to get the Martin Luther King Day passed. So, you know, we do it. Ends up getting passed. At the time, I'm thinking everybody doing it because they love Martin Luther King. They're not doing it for that reason. They was doing it because they wanted to get the Super Bowl.

Yeah. And if you didn't have Martin Luther King Day, the NFL wasn't going to bring a Super Bowl to a city or state that didn't have. had the Martin Luther King Day. And so I was like, dang. So a lot of times it's more than meets the eye. And that was another kind of wake up moment for me thinking, man, everybody loved Martin.

Let's go Martin. Martin. It wasn't about Martin. It was like, yeah, we love Martin. But we love these Benjamin's more than Martin. And we need to make sure that this Super Bowl happens here because that's a $400 million nowadays, a billion dollar economic boom for your community. Wow.

That is crazy. If you're not from here, go read. Yeah. Very important time, for sure. Listen, shout out to GLD fellas. We tapped in here at 520, and we all know how hard it is to get some nice jewelry, especially when it's quality and durable be here.

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I have a podcast empire. It continues to grow. And I have brought it here to IHard. I'm also doing a live radio show from 3 to 5 p.m. Eastern because my wife wanted to kick me out of the house. It's called Stugats and Company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. Some of the biggest names in sports.

A lot of phone calls. I love you guys' show. It's one of my favorites. A lot of interaction. Guys not taking themselves too seriously. Those are just some of the things that you can expect from Stugatson Company and Stugats & Company Live. So listen to Stugats and Company Live and our original podcast. Please subscribe, rate, and review.

Stugats and Company and God bless football, Taylor's livelihood depends on it. Do it today. And you can check all of those out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever. you get your podcast. Hey there, this is Dr. Jesse Mills, director of the men's clinic at UCLA Health and host of the mailroom podcast. Each January guys everywhere

make the same resolutions. Get stronger, work harder, fix, what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? To kick off the new year, I sat down with Dr. Steve Polter, a psychologist with over 30 years' experience, helping men unpack shame, anxiety, and emotional pain they were never taught to name.

In a powerful two-part conversation, we discuss why men aren't emotionally bulletproof, why shame hides in plain sight, and how real strength comes from listening to yourself and to others. Guys who are toxic, they're immature, or they've got something they just haven't resolved. Once that gets resolved,

then there comes empathy as in compassion. If you want this to be the year, you stop powering through pain and start understanding what's underneath, listen to the mailroom on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. Every January, we're encouraged to start over. But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply?

What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help? I'm Mike Delarocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures were taught. to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds,

and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dolorotcha on America's number one podcast network, IHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike Delocha

and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. This show contains information subject to, but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This is your boy, Nav Green, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network.

Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. They're cheese. What's a rap? It's time to rebuild. Who's your MVP right now then? Drake May up there, Josh Allen up there still. Oh, my boy, Matthew Stafford. Where did his both of Nick's at?

He ain't too far behind. He did all this talk about. What Matthew Stafford is doing statistically, bro, is crazy. Bro, you know I ain't no Josh Allen fan, but Matthew Staff forgot. Better webb. Caleb Williams. Hey, he should be in that conversation.

In what conversation? He should be in it. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the Iheart Radio app. Apple Podcast or whatever you get. Get your podcast. Well, like you said, that finals,

y'all get through the threshold. Now you're playing against MJ in the finals. Your squad promising, but they're the champs. What was that like, man? Playing at the highest stage against one of the best players ever do it.

Dream come true for number one. Yeah. Got there once. Wish we could have got over the hunt. We losing six. We go down 02. It was a dream season for us. Charles Barkley,

the MVP. Yeah. We had the best record in the league. Everybody's thinking this is our year. Everybody. We have home court. First two games, Dan Marley is Guarded, Michael Jordan. I don't have a good first two games.

I don't play well. Dan Marley is getting scorched by... Of course. But everybody is. That's the... That's just like a badge of honor. Me too. You know, me too.

He got me too. For sure. For sure. So he gets scorched by Michael Jordan. He was our best defense player. So we fly in. from Phoenix to Chicago. And I fall asleep on a plane.

And then the head coach wakes me up, right? And he says, hey, I just want to let you know, man, game three is going to be your game. It's a cool. You know, I believe that. I'm going to have a bounce back. He's like, and you guard Michael Jordan. Wow. And I'm thinking, we owe two.

We got O two. Our best player is getting scorched like we all did. and now you're going to put me who had a rough two games on Michael Jordan, right? So I go back to sleep, plane land, awake, I'm like, damn, I had a nightmare. I was like, man, I thought the coach came and told me. I guard my, so we walking out the plane. We walked up the plane. The coach is right there.

And I'm like, man, I had this dream that you came and woke me up and told me you guard Michael Jordan. He said you are. Wow. God is my witness. I get on Team Bus. We take it from the airport. We stay in at the hotel, downtown, Chicago. I get off the bus.

I tell the equipment in to take my bags. I see a church across the street. I walk straight in that church. And I sat in front row and I'm like, Jesus, I don't believe in you no more. There's no way if you love me and died on the cross and did all the thing, you would be having me guard Michael's George.

How did you go? That real talk right there. Oh, man. How did you even get in the church? The church door was open. A lot of the church. The doors are always on, brother. You obviously don't.

just kidding. Church still open often during a weekday, depending on where you are. His nickname is Bishop. I can't believe it. That's a question. So I get in the front row, and I'm doing all this. Chicago Church, too.

And I lost my faith at that point. So we go to game three. And then this is how it becomes real. You know, when you're in the locker room. And they put the names up. So they put in Who Garden, Scotty Pippin, who garden, you know, all these different players. And they, and I was like, please don't let, please don't put my name.

Please don't put my name. It's Michael Jordan, KJ. I was like, oh, oh. You fast forward. We had to jump, we had to circle. You know, we're about to jump ball, and I'm next to Jordan. So now at this point, it's fight or flight, right? I'm like, I'm guarding you tonight.

He was like, huh? I was like, yeah, I'm guarding you tonight. They threw the ball. I hit him. I'm scared as heck, right? But I got to do something. Like, I got a least shot in his head a little bit. We end up winning the game three.

It was a triple overtime game. Yeah. I played every minute in the game. NBA Final record Most men has ever played We won that game

We went two out of three in Chicago Because back then it was a two Two three two We went two out of three In Chicago So you know It worked out So by the end of the series

I garden the whole series So when people asked me How'd you do? I'm like I held him Under his average And then somebody asked me Well what was his average? I'm like well damn Marley

He average 40 Yeah I was off for then He has 44 He has 44 Yeah I'm early. Then they're like,

well, what do he average to get you? 42. But I kept him under the average. Like, yeah, take that mic.

That's crazy. MJ and the ACE 2, yeah, it was Chris. Man. You went to church and somebody still average 40.

Hey, when we miss him went to church in a different city. He went to a Chicago church. Yeah, that was straight to voice bill. Oh, man.

What a time. Wait, I got to take one other quick fun. No, I'm talking shit. Charles story. So Charles and I had a bet one time.

I ain't going to tell you what the bet was. But if I won, he had to go to church with me. Yeah. And if he won, I had to go to a strip club one. That was the bet. Whatever the bet was, I lost. That Negro made me go to a strip club with him in Houston. Oh, Pervier.

Of all places. Wow. Beautiful. I ain't know what to do. I'm not saying I was whatever, but I didn't know what to do one in places. He said, just sit right there. Oh, you got to do it. They're going to rest.

I say, I'm all got to be. It was like, I was, what, hour I hopped out of it. I was sweating. But I paid my bed up. I paid my buddy. You just had to go with him. Yeah, I just, nah, no, no, no. Charles.

Charles was going to go to church with me, but he never went. And then one day Dr. Jay went to church with me, and I figured, Dr. Jay probably went for Charles. Yeah, for sure. That's a good son. That's hell for a hell for a hug. Yeah, heck of a suck. Shout Dr. Jay, man.

Listen, man, we're going to take a brief moment, man. Shout to our family over there, the Didas. Man, we tapped in. We sponsored for sure. We get your little gift, man. Appreciate you sliding on this, man, for show. Which way you open up? I'm just going to mess it up for me.

All right. Thank you. Mark, you're family, man. Thank you. James Hardens, man. Check them out. Jay H, man. J.H, man.

All right God. Okay. Like that. You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? Relapsing and get on the court. We want to get some more buggins, man. We got you squared away.

Yeah, man. That's the case you get it. The last time you got on the court, man. I'm going to be 60 in March. Yeah. The last time I touched the basketball, I was 45. Wow. Man.

I went even on court. I was trying to see if I could dunk. I was unsuccessful. Oh, at 45, I tried to get a bullet. I tried it at 40 and couldn't dunk. I don't know what made me think I could dunk at 45. So I gave it up after that. Okay.

Man, you ain't touched the ball in 15 years? No, not one time. At 40, I mean, what happened, though? Your knees gave out or what when you went for dunk? What happened? I don't want to talk about it. No. You know, you just, man, back then, man, your physical life shelf is different.

You know, I watched LeBron, right? I'm like, man, how in the heck are you doing that at that age? You know, I had meniscus. I lost all my meniscus. I had a little nagging stuff, but not anything that would keep me from running and jogging and all that. I just didn't have the bouncing. Yeah, that's how old.

Yeah, I didn't have to bounce anymore. And, you know, I just didn't want to keep playing. I wanted to turn the page. I knew that if I kept trying to play, I was going to try to get another year in or try to do this and rip it. Keyleys. I felt like my grandfather told me when I went into the NBA, you got to have an exit strategy, right? So when you go in, think about what you're going to do again afterwards. So when I walked away from the game, I just turned a page, love sports, still involved with the NBA

every chance I get. But I just knew that I had other challenges, other things that I felt like I can do to get back to the league and to our, you know, black commuterry in particular. When you started making that plan, like, what year was it for you? So I got drafted June of 87, so 87, 88, 1988, my first year. it was before I played my first game. Damn. He was like, you got to think about what you're going to do afterward. So you just put it in my head.

So when I was playing, I was traveling, and we go to all these different NBA cities. I'm trying to meet people. It was like a field trip, right? People paying for you to go to all these places. When you grow up poor, you don't get to go do any of those places. So I'm trying to meet people. I'm trying to see things all around a country

and trying to think about what I wanted to do afterward. And I just knew I wanted to stay involved with the game, but I knew I didn't want to coach. I didn't want to commentate. I wanted to do business and some other things. beyond basketball, but still have that connect me back to basketball. So when I became mayor, I was the first NBA player to ever become a mayor of a city. Then after that, Dave Bing did it and Brad Sellers and other people have done it.

And then I brought all the mayors to the NBA All-Star game. So it was still this constant connection between me as a former basketball player, mayor, with the NBA. I get to Sacramento on mayor. The Sacramento King's team is about to leave. They almost got relocated to Seattle. So I had to work with Davis Stern and all the owners to keep the team there, which we did, which was great. Which, again, still doing my basketball family stuff.

That was still part of my duty to try to keep the team there. And then lastly, when Donald Sterling made those comments about magic, you know, back in the day, the Players Association asked me to represent them with Adam Silver, and we basically got Donald Stern, Sterling out of ownership in a very short period of time. So there's been a lot of things I've been able to do with the NBA And play, which is awesome for me.

Yeah, that's dope. Yeah, I was like, man, just for you to be to marry your hometown, like to win your hometown, had that support, what was that feeling like? Cravest thing was, on election day, you know, when you go to the little booth

and you got to vote, yeah, it's a ballot, you get your ballot to vote. I looked on it and it said, President of the United States, you had two choices, Barack Obama. I was like, dang.

And then down you have my name, mayor of Sacramento. So I'm like, I'm on the same ballot as Barack Obama. Yeah. I'm like, I need to keep this. I should keep this as a collector item. Yeah. Then I was like, dang, what if I lose by one vote?

Shit. I'm going to be all right. So I threw that little thing. And I got, I won, he won. We celebrated. We both made history together. I didn't keep that. But I told that story one time.

And then somebody sent me like a whole box of, in my home, I got a whole box full of ballads that my name I mean, that's just historical. I mean, real talk. Losing by one, you would have kept them out with it crazy. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

I ain't going to lie, though. You probably should have let the Sacramento Kings go home to Seattle, though. It's been, it's been rough. It's been rough. Yeah. Hold on. You got to look at me. Don't look over there.

I don't go, I'll let you do your thing. You had a great. They should have been. What did for Donald Sterling? They should have to hear for a lot of money. You should have let them go on being a supersonic. I ain't got a lot to you. But you did it for the tail.

You did it for the tail. Y'all okay, Jay, a lot. Because what they put you y'all through down there is unprecedented. Because you got him to stay, but you should have stayed in there. Because Vladic should not have been in there at all. That's crazy, man. That's funny. We just, we just be, he loves the Sacramento Kings for whatever reason.

We trade everybody to Sacramento Kings. He just trades everybody to Saras. So that's funny. In the bad time, NBA. That's where you go to get rehabilitated. What about the Wizards? You go there if you want to. I don't know if my rehabilitation.

The Wizards is back now. They back now. They got a young court. But they was on the same page. I agree. The night's watch. All jokes aside, though. What do you think the Sacramento Kings can do to be back to a decent team again, man?

Your honest opinion, for real. I think, you know, people ask me all the time is the NBA global, right? Yeah. Fair question. Yeah. And, I mean, you look at five of the best players in the league right now. Yeah. From Shea to the Greek, Luca, Yolkiewicz.

I'm missing one that's, I mean. You can say saying, whoever is. There's a lot of people. Right, yeah. I mean, that's just crazy. Right? So it's global. We got global owners.

Yeah. We got a global brand. But one of the things that makes something global and successful is you got to care about the mid-sized markets, too. It can't just be the big L.A. in New York. As an NBA owner, you got to make sure to mid-sized markets do well. So two examples of that right now are San Antonio and Oakland City, right? So Sacramento and Indianapolis are in that same boat. So my point to answer your question is you get the right ownership.

You start drafting properly. You grow up from within. You develop players. You can't make mistakes on your drafts. You've got to be very strategic, which is very complicated. salary cap dynamic, and it can be done. That's the fact. But if you have a draft and you choose the wrong player over and over again,

then you're going to go to the back of the line. You're going to be there for a long time. And trying to do it where you get in the big three and you hire. That's just not in the mid-sized market. That's just not going to work. You have a different strategy and philosophy, and all you got to do is look at San Antonio and Oklahoma City has two examples that it can be done.

That's what Sacramento, in my opinion, needs to do more of that. They trade the way. And I tried to franchise players. Like, Trairie Tyler, Byrne, Deeran, Fox. That's crazy. Each of those come back and bite you. Yeah. And then it set you back, not one year, three years.

Three years for sure. And then three years become six, and then you making comments like you think. All the fight, he had to keep that team. Right, right. I had to get you for the other. You got me. Ked did all his work to light the beam. You try to get rid of it.

That quick. You're trying to put the beam out. You said you got some restaurants. Yeah. And we are like we soul food, kind of sewers over here. For sure. Every city we go to,

we find a soul food restaurant. What made you get into the food business? When I got done being mayor in 2016, I wanted to do a black business. Okay. And, you know, I'm not entertainer. That's not my gift. I'm not doing hairs,

make it. Oh, that's not my gift for black products. I was like soul food. I love soul food. My grandma from the South. Yeah. When I was in the MBA, I went to all the soul food

restaurants. Even here right now, you got a very good one, a country kitchen, which is awesome. Shout out to Ms. Wilson. But I would go to all soul food restaurants around the country. So I had that in the back of my head what a good restaurant was. I get out of office many years later in 2017. I started doing research. My wife and I, we go to all the soul food restaurants in Tennessee and Alabama and Mississippi just doing research. I was locked in. Yeah, we was going to do it real the right waste. And then I came back to Sacramento. So we had all our research. And then I brought in eight black chefs from around the country. And they all did a contest to try to be our, you know, chef for the new restaurant. We're open. So we chose a brother. And then he took my family

recipes, his recipes, and we put a fix-and-souled food menu together. And our goal is to do 50 around the country. We have one in Sacramento that does well in my hometown. The one in LA is killing it. We have one in Tulsa because of Black Wall Street. We opened in Detroit last year, which is doing well. We're negotiating on New York and another one in L.A. Englewood right now. But we want to be in all the major cities, man. And it's a great product.

We hire 100 and 100 plus people. So now you've got a black business that has 100 people that are black and brown that work for this particular company. We're doing things at a really high level. Our spirits, our beer and our wine are all black owned. So everything we do in blackity black. So we do it. And the one is Sacramento doing well too before you. I was going to say, send that one to Seattle.

You're crazy. Now listen, we're going to be LA soon. I want to go for sure. I got you. I got you. I'm not done. That's our rest of his chef. That be here's a cater.

I don't know if he's up. I don't know where you're going to. Yeah. Keep it out. Where's it at, though? L.A. live. Okay. Oh.

That's prime. We have 100 yards from the crypto-staple-staple. Yeah. We're right there. Oh, we're going on that for sure. Wait, wait. You know, it's funny. The space wind used to be Shack's restaurant.

Oh. He used to call Shaqqq's. Really? For whatever to You know, he got so many things to work out. Yeah, he'll get him up a little short. So we slid in his face. No, that's why we're rocking it.

Hey, turn up. I need some smothered off that menu. We got you. Got you some smothered chicken, smothered pork shot. We got some oxtails. Got oxtail. Best cocktails you want to be. Shh.

Best oxtails you on me. You thought you had me on the auction. Yeah. Bring it. Yeah. Keep on. Come on. Come on.

Come on. Hey, Kj, Joe, Gras. You know what I mean? You're going to be fine. You know, we're good. We get some content in there for sure. We got you. Yeah, it's the dope space.

You'll see it. It's beautiful. No, we got to stop for sure when we pull up All-Star. All right. But we get out of here, I got to ask you this. It's been a while since you hoop. If we lined it up, you and Kenny Smith, one v one, what can we do? Be here, Hard Rock Bet.

Who you take your bet on, man? I got to watch KJ walk up out of here. Got to watch Catcher over the board. I see me walk in. I see me walk in. I got Kaye. He got Kaye. No, I got Kaye.

I got Kay's in. I see her walk to the board too many times. That's what I'm saying. You don't know if all him walk. Not need to be. And like, y'all starting to kiss me off. Who got to watch? I got KJ for sure.

For sure. Listen, man, we appreciate you. We definitely pull us up. We got to pull up the fixings, man. One more time, tell people that can find it in Sacramento in L.A. so they can slide, man. Fixing Soul Kitchen, Sacramento, Fixing Soap Kitchen, L.A., fixing Salt Kitchen, Tulsa, and Fixing Soul Kitchen, Tulsa.

and Vixen Soul Kitchen, Detroit. Yes, sir. Pull up, especially in Detroit, our family. We are out there, so. Definitely got to go. We go back to Detroit. And I'm proud of y'all real quick. I'm just, man, man, prop.

Love you guys. Oh, man. Appreciate you, part of yours. You know that. Thank you. Thank you. Love, man. Be here and for we get out of here.

Tell the people that can grab some merch at, man. Shop Club 520.com, man. You know the vibes. We appreciate y'all. We'll catch y'all next time. Club 520. The volume. Stigatz here.

I have a podcast empire that I have brought here to Iheart, and I'm also hosting a daily live radio show from 3 to 5 p.m. Eastern called Stugats and Company Live, which is available in podcast form right when the show finishes every single day. You can expect a lot of laughter, great guests, a ton of calls, and a lot of fun. Listen to Stugats & Company Live and our original podcast, Stugats and Company and God Bless football, and you can check all of those out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken.

But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you you get your favorite shows.

A new year doesn't ask us to become someone new. It invites us back home to ourselves. I'm Mike Delarocha, a host of Sacred Lessons, a space for men to pause, reflect, and heal. This year, we're talking honestly about mental health, relationships, and the patterns

we're ready to release. If you're looking for clarity, connection, and healthier ways to show up in your life, Sacred Lessons is here for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Deloach on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This show contains information subject to,

but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This is your boy, Nav Green, from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season, the playoffs are here. But guess what?

It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcasts with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. The Chief. It's time to rebuild. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green

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