Club 520 Podcast - Club 520 - Metta World Peace on injuring Michael Jordan, playing with Kobe Bryant, guarding LeBron

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

We’re back with Season 2, Episode 48 of Club 520 where Jeff Teague and the guys are joined by Metta World Peace to discuss all things NBA. Metta tells stories about breaking Michael Jordan’s ribs in a pickup game, winning NBA championships alongside Kobe Bryant, guarding LeBron James, and much more! 00:00 - Introduction02:30 - Playing for the Pacers05:20 - Playing on best AAU team ever08:00 - Hooping in New York City11:00 - Jermaine O’Neal got SNUBBED from winning MVP13:20 - Playing pickup vs. Michael Jordan15:40 - Developing offensive game23:30 - Best young players25:30 - Favorite city to play in27:40 - Favorite rappers of all time30:00 - Playing for the Lakers35:00 - Being a role player next to Kobe Bryant40:20 - Hardest players to guard47:00 - Life after basketball #Club #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Buy Runs in the Family wherever books are sold. All right, we back. Another episode of Club 520 Podcast. I'm the host. My name is DJ Wells. We got a special guest

in the building, a legend in the building. To my left, we're going to introduce my man's last, but to my far left, we got my dog, Bishop B. Hinn.

Dr. Perlis, how you doing? How you what, nasty? How you what, nasty? I'm good today, baby. Oh, you got the hat. Yeah, let's go. Let's go. I'm mad you done seen a lot of things.

Shout out to Millie. Hey, shout out to Millie. Shout out to JM. Got it in the mall, Mike. I got it in the mall. Yeah. Shout out to the Merge Gang. Yeah, for sure.

To my right, my dog, Young Nacho, Young T. How you what, man? I'm good, man. Hype, man. We got another legend in the building. Oh, man. He was with your Pacers. Yes, man. We got another legend in the building. Oh, man. He was with your Pacers. Yes, sir.

He was. I had a chance to play for the Pacers. I didn't do what he did, but I got a chance to be on the team. But now I'm glad we got him in the building, man. I'm going to let you do the honors and introduce him. Listen, man. Anytime we can get a legend in the building, especially a Pacers legend in the building, you know what it is.

We geeked about this. You've seen this man, champion philanthropist, one of the first people to speak about how important it is for Black men to go to therapy, to have a release for their mental health, and to use this platform for other people to feel that type of relief that they needed. We got the dog made a world peace, man. Appreciate

you sliding the 520, big dog. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me. That's probably that nigga's best intro. Yeah. What that hat say? How you doing, yeah. Thanks for having me. That's probably that nigga's best intro. Yeah. What that hat say? How you doing, Nasty? That's fly. That's my first time hearing that.

Nah, that's Nap Town lingo. That's good you didn't hear it. You probably been to a place you didn't want to hear that at. But obviously, man, you a Pacers legend. Being in the city,

before we even ask, like, how was it being in the city when the Pacers was, like, lit? Like, y'all was it. How was that feeling in the city? Because you always got a lot of love, especially for the way you played. Like, a lot of people don't understand how we embrace our players here. Like, if you come to NAP and you hoop, we're rocking with you forever.

I love NAP, you know what I mean? So, the history with NAP is interesting because I grew up a Knicks fan. I actually grew up a Bulls fan. You know, Mic the history with Nap is interesting because I grew up a Nick fan. I actually grew up a Bulls fan. You know, Michael Jordan is like LeBron James. So I'm from New York, but hopped on the Bulls bandwagon. But definitely a Nick guy.

I love New York. But the crazy thing about the Pacers, I have my hood in Queens. We tied to the Pacers. Sean Green played for the Pacers. Vern Fleming. Vern Fleming. I walked, you know, right, sameming. Vern Fleming. I walked,

you know, right, same block, Vern Fleming. You know, that's where, he from the hood and we seen the Pacers

uniform forever. That flow job. Since we was young. Then I get to the Pacers and then Vern Fleming is my coach. Oh, yeah. So it was just crazy

being able, somebody I idolized is now passing the rock while we getting shots up. Now he never, I never really seen him cause he was older, but every day I just would think about damn, Vern Fleming is passing me the ball in practice and he's sitting right here, you know, right here next to me on the bench. So, you know, the paces is super special to us. You know, a lot of people don't really understand, but the paces is super special.

And then when I came here, my whole family came here, then obviously I left, and they just parked. You know, we got about 30 family members here right now. When I left, it was maybe 10, but we popping babies out. You know, the artist, you know, name, and the homes, my other, you know, my mom's last name. You know, we got a couple of the last names, but the bloodline is like, we love Naptown. We love Indiana, you know, and we always will.

The lineage in Napa's crazy. Hold on, though. Hold on. We get a classic Vern story. Vern, our guy. Yeah, that's good to hear. That's good to hear. No, like, that's our guy.

That's good to hear. You know what I'm saying? You got a classic story that you can share with us that ain't too fed. Yeah, man. Well, I got the stories. I'm 44? You got a classic story that you can share with us that ain't too fed. Yeah, man. Well, I got the stories. I'm 44. I came here, I was 20, 22. Yeah.

So Vern's niece has a baby with my cousin. So that's one. Y'all tapped in. Real lineage. That's one story. Kept it in the family. Yeah. And then his brother was nice.

I don't know, his Vic, his brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. For real. Super nice. I don't know. His Vic, his brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nice. For real. Super nice. And then I played in, you know, local ball with Lou Gons, who coached Vern Fleming. Also, so it's like a lot of different. I don't have any other stories because, you know, like when he went to the league, a lot

of people still, you know, was still in the hood that he played with, but they were so much older than us. Ah, gotcha. So those stories are over our head. He was like a kind of a good guy, not getting in any trouble. So it wasn't a lot of stories out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You didn't, Vern go play ball. You never heard any crazy stories. Yeah. Yeah. That's fire. We got to take it back, though. We just had a little off-mic conversation about the AAU days.

You was part of one of the best AAU teams ever. True. Some say it's the best ever. That's crazy. It's up for debate, though. Oh, for sure.. Some say it's the best ever. That's crazy. It's up for debate, though. Oh, for sure. It for sure is up for debate. That's 100%.

But to hear people say it, it's wild because we felt like that. But people started to say it, even like the younger generation. I'm like, how did they even find out? But the team was sick. You had me and Eric Barkley picking up full court. We picking up 94 feet. You know, then you had Lamar Odom, who was 6'11", point guard at that time. You know, in high school, Elton Brand, who was always the best.

Lamar was always number two. And then me, Eric, was always, like, tied for three. And then we had a couple people that was not far behind. Reggie Jesse came off the bench. Yeah, Reggie Jesse came off the bench. Yeah, Reggie Jesse, man. Oh, my God. That's crazy. That's the St. John's legend for sure.

That's incredible, man. Reggie Jesse was a sleeper. And I felt bad for him because he playing on our team and we all team ballplayers. So nobody had 20. Nobody had 30. Elton averaged 14.

I averaged 12.8. You know, so it was all about hustle and Reggie you know he's a team player Lamar you see Lamar team player

you know I was the man on my team's head but when I went to Liggett I had to play a role I can play a role easy that's easy you know

four or five shots be effective that's how we played it wasn't about how many shots you miss it was about just trying to win so I was never worried about field goal percentage.

And that's how we all were. And we respect that Elton has the best player on the team. And then guys like Reggie, he wouldn't play as much. So he could have went somewhere else. But nobody was thinking about, oh, if I play on this team, I'm not going to get scouted. We was thinking about winning now. And so it was like,

he sacrificed a lot. Did you ever go up against Tim Thomas' squad? Tim was a year older than us. Okay. We were younger. Tim gave us 40 one time. Woo! For sure.

Was he really like that in high school? Oh my goodness. I mean, he was nice in the league. He was pretty solid in the league too. Did he play the same way? Busy. He was nice. Played the same way.

Played the same way. Played the same way. Played the same way. Yeah, okay. But he was older than us but when he gave us 40 it was a tournament called Portchester. Okay.

So Portchester, it was New York's at its finest. There was no fouls. It was a high school tournament with no fouls. That's crazy. So, yeah,

it was the only tournament like this. No tournament. It was the only tournament like this. So you can literally, you know, you're on a fast break, they coming at your head. It was the only tournament like this. So you can literally, you know, you're on a fast break,

they coming at your head. It was just everybody. It wasn't just me. This was like the league and, you know, and then so in that tournament, he had 40. In a small gym.

That's when I knew he was the truth. Y'all was playing an above the rim tournament. It wasn't no refs. It was one of my favorite, a lot of people don't know about Portchester,

but it was one of my favorite Yeah, I wouldn't have played in that tournament. I sound like football. No, if you was there... That started to run our test lineage. You was there to go 94 feet and not get no fouls called? You was in there going crazy. That's slam ball.

Yeah, slam ball. Yeah. But yeah, exactly. It really was. It was high school, too. Because the streets of New York was like tough playing in the streets

but this one it was like an organized tournament and you wouldn't expect you wouldn't expect it yeah to be that aggressive but Tim Tim had

I remember one game he had 10 threes I remember the game and Tim was Tim was the truth for sure I had to ask about it man we can move on

but I had to I had to ask about it I mean speaking about like high school and around that time, is there anybody like New York is a basketball state? Is there anybody

we like wouldn't know that was like super nice? Like you said, Elton and those guys. Is there anybody out from New York that was so nice? So many guys.

So, so many guys. And when I came into the league, I would always shout out the guys that nobody heard about because I felt like I was obligated. Yeah. You know, it was a guy named Mike Chatfield from my neighborhood,

Mike Chatfield. I was 13. He beat me 32 to 2. You know, he was tough. He later died on 2010. I had his name inscribed on my head. It said Chatty. He died in a drug deal.

But, you know, it was players like that that, you know, they didn't have the support. You know, they didn't have the father figures and stuff, so they,

you know, they go on other routes. But he stands out. And the other thing, some players just couldn't make it. Some players didn't have the street side, but they didn't have the guidance.

You get a guy like Ali, well, you probably heard of Ali. Hell yeah, the black girl. Recipe. There's that one. Ali was the

elite EBC guy bro legit legit I played against Ali Moore plenty of times 6'8 you know

throwing behind the back passes full court on target on time at 6'8 like he was he was incredible even though he was

in the street playing street ball I actually brought him to Indiana because he was going through a lot. He was trying to train. So I'm like, Alimo, if you want to play in the league, you got to work hard. So I brought him out to Indiana. He was in the paces, you know.

We working, working him out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I worked out Alimo. Actually, Chatty was in the paces. We was all out here one year, everybody working, just working on our game, you know, when we had access to the gym. But it was a lot of players, you know, that I thought was nice, for sure. Dang, Alimo could have been a pacer. Larry, we could have had bro off the gym. But it was a lot of players, you know, that I thought was nice, for sure. Dang, Ali Mo could have been a pacer.

Larry, we could have had bro off the bench as a backup one. We'd have been lit. Him and Jamal, we getting it crackin'. He had no cardio. He had no cardio at that time. Well, that's a testament to him because a guy here from, we all know,

Andre Owen said the same thing about you, man. He said he used to have runs out on 10th and post. And you used to come up there and hoop with him, and he was like, man, you can play. And you called Larry and him up there to watch him work out, and he made the Pacers team because of that. It was random because I respect Andre's work ethic, even though

he get all the foul calls. Listen, to this day. To this day? He still owe me some calls. You're not going to win a battle with Andre. You ain owe me some calls. You can't, you're not going to win a battle with Andre. You ain't winning no battle.

I'd be like, man, you're a ball. Then he's going to get mad. He's going to poke his chest out. I ain't getting no ball. No foul. You're a ball. Andre's my guy. He's tough. He was solid. I wanted to rock with him, honestly. I felt like he's a dog. I forgot that he was actually on that, honestly. I felt like he's a dog.

I forgot that he was actually on that team, but I felt like he was a dog. Yeah, he said that, man. Shout out to you. Definitely, man. Definitely. I love playing with dogs, man. I'm not going to lie. Every practice that we was in, Indiana practices, it was intense.

Man, that's the craziest part. Obviously, when you came to Indy, and then the team they formed, like, that's the one time I was like, the Pacers might win a championship. Like, we were, I felt in our heart of hearts, we had a contended team. I don't get to say that often.

You know what I'm saying? Years of heartbreak, I get it. But that time period, especially, I was like, oh, we have everything we need to win this shit. But I feel like we was the best team in the league. Yeah, that's the best Pacers team ever. Yeah, but for sure. Hold on, hold on. But I feel like we was the best team in the league. Yeah, that's the best Pacers team ever. Yeah, but for sure. Hold on, hold on.

Yeah, and no disrespect to the teams that went to the finals with J-Rolls, Mark Jackson, and Ricky. We ain't even saying that because he here. Nah, bro. It was different, bro.

It was different. We believed it. Them pinstripes, bro. I mean, I love the flow, but them pinstripe jerseys, bro, that was different. Like, they knew what time it was with us.

Y'all had a bunch of two-way players. Yeah, everybody was two-way. Yeah players. Yeah, everybody was two-way. You know, everybody was two-way. Jermaine could have won defensive player of the year. Yeah. You know, I thought he should have won MVP. And I don't, you know, KG, that's my dude.

It's not to, you know, slight him, but it's to give Jermaine his flowers. Yeah, for sure. You know, because people forget that Jermaine wants, he actually finished third. I thought he should have been MVP because he was the best on that team. We won 61 games. That was nice.

We was five, seven games ahead of everybody else. So, well, what does that mean? You know, so I feel like Jermaine

was getting slighted in so many, he's so professional. You know, he's, I brought him down a little bit when I left.

You know, when I could request the trades. You know, he don't get the MVP, and he's still resilient. He still fly like he was until he was 22 years old. You know, but we definitely had a lot of two-way players. I got to ask you, you talked about this a little bit, but we'd love to hear it again if possible. Your legendary pickup game with MJ, man. How was that playing ball with the GOAT? Incredible.

It was incredible. I'm from New York, so pickup basketball is what we just take it serious. That's all I know is to work hard. So MJ, I idolize MJ. I got defensive player of the year and his number, that's his number. That's 23.

That ain't nothing but MJ, man. So, and then when I was 19, we had these open runs. You know how we play open runs. You know, some Andre Owens, he would love these runs. MJ, the problem with MJ is when he get the ball, he going to score. So that's where you mess up, by letting him catch it. So every time he get the ball, he going to score. So that's where you mess up by letting him catch it. So every time he would catch it, he was scoring. So in my head, I'm just like, I can't let this dude touch the ball.

So he was posting me up one time and I was trying to deny. And they had referees in open runs. So as I was trying to deny him, you know, as I was denying him, I just moved his arm out the way, you know, and then as I moved the arm, I hit him with my right elbow, and I hit him in his ribs, and then, you know, his ribs, cracked his ribs, and then, so I seen him go like this, but I didn't think nothing of it, so I seen him holding it, so we go down, we miss a shot, MJ, give me the ball, MJ get the ball you hold it boom come down freak the line

game winner and walk off the court i'm like damn mj nice and then the next day i get i seen the media said metal world peace punched mj you know it said run out of tests punched mj and broke his ribs so now i'm sick i'm in sick. I can't leave the house. I'm not going to practices. It's summertime. But we still training. So my agent called me. My agent called me.

He like, where you at? I said, read the paper. I'm depressed. This is my guy. And MJ called me. And MJ, I was really depressed. He said, hey, it's all right, man. It's all right, young fella.

Just on the phone. It's all right, young fella. It happens. You're going to be good. I know you didn't mean it. I said, MJ, man, my bad, man. I was just playing hard. But those runs, it was intense.

I can believe it. Yeah, it was intense. We was going hard. And MJ actually asked me to come back. You know, he was like, hey, I want you to come back. And I was young. And I was know, he was like, hey, I want you to come back. And I was young. And I was like, he was like, yeah, could you give me that work?

But I was in my prime. And at 19, my defense was crazy the whole time. My offense wasn't there, so it wasn't highlighted. But my defense was like, you know, it was definitely elite at 19. Oh, yeah, young. You was full of energy one time. Yeah, not tired.

Don't get tired. When did that offense click, though? Because you became, hey, you started full of energy one time. Yeah, not tired. Don't get tired. When did that offense click, though? Because you became, hey, you started killing. 20 PPS. Yeah. When did that click for you? Like, all right, I know I can guard everybody. I'm locking everybody up.

But I get buckets, too. Well, you know, like, so when I was young, I wasn't able to score. At some point in time in high school, I was scoring a rock. I was hitting threes and all this stuff. I got to college. You know, for me, I want to win. So if we losing the game, I was scoring a rock. I was hitting threes, all this stuff. I got to college. You know, for me, I want to win. So, if we're losing the game, I'm in hustle mode.

I'm not thinking about offense. I'm thinking about running. I'm thinking about closing out. So, I don't have no legs for offense. A lot of times in college, I'll have 11 points, 8 points, you know, maybe 15 points. For me, that's a great night for me. When I got to the league, I was averaging 11, averaging 12. And then we were losing. We were losing. So, I said I had to great night for me. When I got to the league, I was averaging 11, averaging 12.

And then we were losing, we losing. So I said I had to work on my game. Because I can't keep leaving this to chance. So every year I kept improving, just in the gym. You know, four times a day in the gym. Almost, you know, five to seven hours every day. Working on my game. And that just pal-in-all.

I just kept getting better. And then when I got defensive player of the year I was averaging 18 that next summer I was in the gym every day so then Larry Bird was coming down to the gym

and then Larry was working on me every day I said I'm not about to miss out on this opportunity I'm in the gym every day I didn't leave Indiana you know and then I just

I was getting better every week every two weeks the game was getting crazy and I came back I was averaging 20 plus you know I was like before I got suspended I came back, I was averaging 20 plus. You know, I was like, before I got suspended, I was at 24.

I was at 24 a game. And what happened, well, back then, you know, guys could hold you. So I had to figure out how to score off one dribble. So you'll see a lot. And that year, you'll see jab, one dribble shot, one dribble right shot, you know, or one dribble layer, one dribble layer, one dribble layer. And I had to, you know, figure out a way to get people off me and get to the basket. And then Carlisle kept saying,

you know, stop holding the ball. You're holding the ball too long. So I'm like, what you mean? I'm holding this. You know, I want you to be. So I said, all right. If he's saying I'm holding the ball too long, I'm going to get buckets before he can say you're holding the ball too long. You know? So when I would get the ball, he'd, you know, cash.

Fine. Eventually, he's just, one day he was in practice, he said, No, you finessed that. Yeah. One day he's in practice, he was like, Ron, you're a unique scorer. You have the unique ability

to drive middle and shoot so that's okay he solidified he solidified in the practice one time but it was just work man man as a Louisville fan

it was so hard trying to get tickets to the Louisville Kentucky game I know it happens every year but it's so hard to get tickets it should not be that hard to get a ticket to support your team and be a true fan.

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break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that. May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the

unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully if all you're doing is living to please people. Your mountain is that. Listen to Made for This Mountain

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You was the real two-way player, bro. I used to be like, how the fuck is he averaging 24 points and still playing the whole game on the defensive end? What the fuck is he taking? Where did that come from? Is that always how you've been, though? Like, high energy, I mean, like, able to play those games like that? But what was crazy was

I had a heart murmur when I was 13 because I was playing all day one day. Had to go to the hospital because I was playing from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. Right?

So then had to go to the hospital. I caught pneumonia, but then I caught an issue in my valve in my lungs. So I get drafted. They missed the whole thing. Before I'm going to sign my contract,

Donnie Walls said, hey, you got blood leaking in your lungs. I said, what you mean? I go to the doctor. They said, we got to open you up. I went, what? So they was going to open my chest up. And I'm like, get this shit.

I'm like, get it over with. So my agent, Mark Bauterstein, he's like, I'm not letting them open up your chest. I said, well, let's just get it over with. So my agent, Mark Bauterstein, he's like, I'm not letting them open up your chest. I said, well, let's just get it over with. A year and a half, we'll just do it, whatever. Then they said, nah, we're going to go through your underarm. It's going to be

about eight months. I said, all right, cool, get it over with. And then Mark said, nah, I'm not letting it go down. So then Mark was researching. They went through an artery in my thigh. They plugged up the hole in my heart. So this whole time, I'm working extra hard. I'm like, damn, why am I always tired in the first quarter?

You know, I'm like, oh, I'm always tired. Meanwhile, I'm playing defense, exhausted every time. Man, when they did the surgery, the doctor said it took 40 minutes. I went from being out a year and a half to a 40-minute surgery. The doctor said, don't play basketball. I was in Chicago. I went to Chicago. Surgery over.

He said, don't do anything for a week. I drive right back to the gym to pace. I go right to work, right? My heart stopped pumping out of my chest. So I called a trainer. No trainers. I called my doctor. I said, yo, doc, my heart is like something happened

and it was pumping out of my chest. He said, what are you doing? I said, I'm working out. He said, did I tell you to work out? So I took off about, you know, I took off like two weeks. And then I came back that next year. It was crazy. I had so much energy.

Yeah, the blood. I was playing with blood in my lungs. I had this one cough, coughed up some blood. It was natural. And then, you know, ever since then, I was just like, the game became easier for me. It was crazy. That's crazy.

You had to fight yourself just against them and now... What fucker damn near died? You got off the surgeon's table and said, all right, I'm back to fight pickup next week.

He said, all right, just hurry up and get it over with. I was like, all right, you different, bro. I would have been like

going through every step like that. But that's a shout out to you though. Your agent, a great agent. Yeah, Mark Bostick. Mark Bostick is a great agent. But like, a lot of guys, they agent Your agent a great agent. Yeah, Mark. Mark Boston is a great agent.

But like a lot of guys, they agent wanted to do all that. They want to took those steps to do that. Obviously he cared. Even though I wasn't with him for a long time because I had other things I was going through, I should have never parted ways with Mark. Yeah.

But I want to give him credit because without him, I would have, they would open me up. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And like you said, there's a lot of agents that would have just took that first opinion.

Yeah. And altered life. That could have altered your whole career. Especially that time period. That little bit more lenient with players now developing, being not hurt. Yeah. A year back then was really like two and a half. Yeah.

That could have set your career all the way back. Yeah. I was devastated because, you know, I played so hard. And it was just so many things going through my mind, you know. And Mark was like, nah, we going to find something else. He found somebody from overseas that lived in Chicago to do this special surgery. Incredible. That's crazy.

That's dope. That's dope. Who would you say, young players now, I know you still follow the league, who are the young players you'd say remind you of you or that you favorite a lot? Yeah, you know, I always answer this question with, I kind of reverse it. Who would I want to be like?

That's dope. Because, like, my career, it would have been different if I was unstable. I was just playing off the talent I had, the hard work. I still got a lot of awards. But who would I want to be like? Kawhi Leonard won. I could definitely.

You know what I'm saying? I would love to have been like him. And now I'm looking at this Maxie kid. Tyrese. Oh, my goodness. He's both ways, huh? Yeah, he's nice. Oh, he is so nice.

I like his game. But Kawhi Leonard is somebody I felt like that would have been my career. I can definitely see that. That's like a... If it was a little more stable. If he was your height, he'd be the best player

in the fucking league. Kawhi? Nah. Tyrese Maxie? Tyrese. He is my height. No, he's not. Tyrese only 6'2", bro.

No way. Yeah. Yeah, Maxie from Philly? Yeah, bro. He be Maxie from Philly, 6' bro. He be mixing here in 6'2". He like my... Tap in, bro. Yeah, he like be a little guy.

It make it even crazier now. If he was your size, and the fact that you compare yourself to him is incredible, bro. But yeah, he ain't... That's crazy. I thought he was 6'7". Nah.

6'2", barely. Maybe the best for him. Wee. Somebody kept telling me I gotta watch this kid. Nah, he... Because I watch a little bit. I don't watch a lot of basketball. I watch a", barely. Maybe the best for him. Somebody kept telling me I got to watch this kid. Nah, he's not. Because I watch a little bit. I don't watch a lot of basketball.

I watch a little bit. You know, I watch more boxing, honestly. I love boxing. And somebody's like, you got to watch this kid. You got to watch this kid. And they've been telling me for years.

Then when I watch him, I'm like, damn. He's nice. Nah, he like that. I thought he was 6'7". Nah, he not. That's crazy that you thought he was that tall.

Nah, he think 6'2". Nah, he good. He like 6'2". Alright, well, we going. I'm not, you know, that's 12 years. Not tall. Ka liked that. I thought he was 6'7". Nah, he not. That's crazy that you thought he was that tall. Yeah, he think 6'2"? Nah, he can get it. He like 6'2". Alright, well, we gonna, I'm not, you know, that's, well, not tall. Kawhi,

I gotta find another player. Kawhi, that's definitely, for sure, that's a given. That's crazy. Tyrese Max and Kyrie Irving, if they was both 6'5", the world would be in trouble.

Yeah. They would be different. Man, now I gotta ask you about this. Obviously, you played for a couple different teams. What was your favorite city to play in?

My favorite city? Outside of Nat. Outside of Nat? There's a lot of different variables. I played in L.A. L.A. was crazy. I would say Chicago was pretty insane because MJ was there. And they was behind us too, man.

They was behind us. But I got to say L.A. L.A. You too, man. They was behind us. But I got to say LA. LA. You know, LA. The energy in the end, it was crazy because when you came into that building, the fans knew somebody was getting locked up. It was a different energy.

Like, y'all good tonight. You know? How y'all feel tonight? Don't worry too much. It was a different energy. So Napa's always going to be in there. But you said, I would say L.A. because you're playing with Kobe. And you're playing for championships.

I almost didn't even go to Lakers. I was actually trying to come back to Naptown, actually. Really? 100%. I was trying to come back to Indiana. That was my first choice. What happened? The history.

It was too much history. Yeah. You know, can I be trusted? Yeah. Can I be relied on, you know? I wasn't a reliable player. Yeah. So it put me in a bad spot.

Yeah. See, my favorite version of you as your career went, I love when you was in Houston. Boy, it came with the Mohawk. Yes, sir. You was getting buckets. Yeah, yeah. That's when I was like Damn me

He really get buckets Was you still rapping? I was still rapping I was rapping I did four albums My last year Now nobody heard I put them into iTunes

I did four albums My last season Look at the SoundCloud We got fun in here No but I took it off I took it off It wasn't like It wasn't

It was just Quick 16 songs Knock them out Another 16 But you, it was just quick 16 songs. Knock them out, another 16. But, you know, that was just like fun. Yeah. It was fun. I'm from a, you know, Queens, like Nas is right there.

I'm all deep right here. My favorite rapper. Huh? My favorite rapper. Nas. They give me problems about liking Nas. They say I got to grow up. Well, you, all right, we jump all over the place on this. It's all good.

Excuse us, Rob. Yeah, man, we in the building. Who would you, who's in your, not, you don't have to rank them or nothing, but who's your favorite three rappers from NY? Favorite three rappers, I would say Nas, Big L. Big L, R.B. Pun. Pun, R.E. Pun. Pun, ooh.

I love pun, too. We have bars. And that's, you know, it could change, but, you know, pun is incredible. Yeah. Obviously, Jay-Z is incredible. You know, but yes. What was you warming up to in them games, man? To him.

Yeah, I was doing that a little bit. Oh, you was a cellist? That's how he was locking niggas up. That's like a nigga having a picture of himself on his phone screen. I was guilty of that. Oh, you had no sense of your own screen? Oh, that's nasty. Hey, I ain't going to hold you.

Hey, you had one of the hardest songs on 2K. When you loaded up 2K that moment of silence for the champion that was that shit yeah that was that was my that was my most successful record the other ones was duds

but um it was Eminem a little bit it was Mobb Deep out the gate it was Mary J. Blige a lot SWV

so I was an R&B I love R&B but that's something in Indiana I had to stop listening to Mobb Deep and Eminem before games because it was too tight It was Mary J. Blige a lot. SWV, so I was an R&B. I love R&B. But that's something. In Indiana, I had to stop listening to Maude, Diva Eminem before games because... You were too turnt. Yeah, man, I'm too turnt. I'm listening to Eminem, some shady ring game,

like Jim Brady, like, yeah, let's go. That's crazy. You know what I'm saying? I had to tell my... I coached high school. I had to tell my kids they couldn't listen to NBA Youngboy Because they'd be too hype We listened to Sade

Before the game I said y'all gotta calm down That's why y'all say it No We can't tell them To Sade before that Bro they'd be too hype They'd be too hype

I had to stop Listening to rap I stopped listening to rap Before the game 2005 No more It's over Yeah

It's too much I started listening to Other type of music R&B Or like jazz game, 2005. No more, it's over. I started listening to other types of music. R&B or jazz or something. I was listening to some jazz later in my career. Smooth it down.

How was it once you got to LA, man? Did Kobe make a phone call like, hey, my boy, I need you, slide? It was crazy because I was in Houston and I ain't gonna talk about things that was promised

you know I didn't want to talk about it but I had a great season so actually in Houston I wanted to stay in Houston I came out

I thought I was gonna play T-Mac because I was playing two minutes a game five minutes a game eight minutes so I said damn

contract yeah I'm sick I'm in my prime 28 T-Mac, I was playing two minutes a game, five minutes a game, eight minutes. So I said, damn, contract year? I'm sick. I'm in my prime. 28. I'm sick. I'm like, all right. All right, my career is pretty much over. I'm going to deal with it.

Chair, chairing on the bench. You know, I thought I should have, Shane Batty was playing T-Mac. T-Mac get hurt. Then I start playing. My average go from, what, five to 17. You know,

being one of, now I'm a feature guy of LLT. So we get to the playoffs. We take the team out the first round for the first time in 12 years.

Since Akeem was there. You know, next to Brandon Roy, nice. B-Roy. One of my favorite players of all time. Yo, B-Roy was...

You got a classic interview talking about him too. He nice. Said no flaws in this game. Nice. He was that nice? Ooh. B-Roy was nice.

Can I ask you a question? Like, way nice. So me and Jamal Crawford, one of my good guys, he's a good dude. Me and him used to battle about him and Joe Johnson. Who was better? Out of Jamal and Joe? Yeah. Out of B-Roy and Johnson?

Yeah. B-Roy. Is it not even close? Uh, nah. I love Joe. I believe, no,

B-Roy was nice. Joe was nice. It's not that easy. I'm just saying like, as I was, I mean, you guard both of them. And I got to respect it

because you are who you are. Yeah. No, Joe, Roy was tougher than, you know, he had that had knee surgery he gave me 40 and nobody gave me 40. you know he the 40 was in my face damn you know what i'm saying and i was like i was i was baffled i'm like here i am in my prime you know i'm in his ass all that and he just go just go right, go right. Face.

Like, this death was crazy, bro. That was crazy. Whoa, yeah, pause. Ooh,

that was good. Pause. Rewind. Damn. I was about to run, but death was insane man we had left the front of the ride but the second one was crazy

yo I gotta get on my P's and Q's you was like and I was in his hands I was like there's so much other hoot shit we can talk about but that one is crazy you was like and I was in his hands I was like there's so much other hoop shit

we can talk about but that one is crazy that's good I just called all y'all's crazy but hey

ding dash camp I'm not no no no but I can I can respect that because you definitely guarded all the best

players in the league so your word goes a long way he was nice I got him up out of there guarded all the best players in the league. So your word goes a long way. He was nice. I got him up out of there early. We put him out in the—we played them in the first round. Got him up out of there in the first—we was a six seed. They was a three.

So we got them up out of there. And then the next year—I mean, the next round, I was averaging 25. I was playing really well. So I thought I was going to go back to Houston. And then I said, all right, since I'm not going back to Houston because they didn't offer, we don't want to get into that. Then I wanted to come back to Naptown. I never thought about going.

The Lakers just beat us, so I'm super competitive. You know, King James, I would have went to Cleveland, but I'm super competitive. I want to play against all these dudes. So I didn't go to Cleveland because of that. Not because I love King James. And then when Indiana turned me down, then I called Detroit. I was like, I want to go to Detroit.

Because I'm all about the story. I'm like, damn, that should be dope if I can win a title here. All right, cool, I can win a title in Indiana. That should be dope if I can win a title in Detroit. But then Detroit was like, nah, too much has happened. I would love to hear how that phone call went. Well,

I told my agent and my agent was like, they was like, nah, we don't, I was, I'm like, that's a lot of history.

Yeah, a lot of history. Yeah, that's a lot of history. Too soon, baby. I want to get into, I like to go into the fire.

I like to go into the lion's den. You know, I love being in the mouth for the lion, you know? So, when that didn't, when that didn't happen, I didn't even want to go to the league. I tried to go to Greece.

But I'm like, there's nobody I want to play with. Real talk. My agent was David Bowman. So I said, Dave, I'm not going to go to, you know, Indiana. Or the Knicks was like, you know, the Knicks wasn't an option because then Donnie Walsh was with the Knicks. He was my GM hit. I tried to go to the Knicks was like, the Knicks wasn't an option because then Donnie Walsh was with the Knicks. He was my GM hit. I tried to go to the Knicks, but that was like, it was just too much history there.

So I said, all right, cool. I'm just going to go to Greece because I always wanted to go to Europe and just ball out in my prime. But then I get a call from the Lakers, you know, midnight. My agent said, yo, the Lakers, they want to talk to you. And I was like, for what? They just beat us, man. What do they want to talk about?

They want you to join their team. I'm like, I called my family, met with Dr. Buster the next morning, and that was it. Champion. That was it,

all I said. I've been watching Winning Time, man, and just to see how he ran the organization. So I can imagine how, like you said, it was such a smooth transaction.

You went from, I ain't going nowhere to Dr. Buss called us up. He was that good. Like, he was that good. He's a hands-off, you know, you got a lot of hands-off owners.

And, you know, he's never, you can't go to Dr. Buss and say, oh, I'm upset because I ain't playing. He can say, you got to talk to the coach.

Or you can talk to him. So you feel like you're part of the organization. You feel like you're really in tune with the owner. He's incredible. He's incredible. R.P. Dr. Buss.

Absolutely. But that championship run y'all had, like, y'all have that series against the Celtics is still one of the best NBA finals ever, man.

It was wild. How was it like playing, like you said, you playing with Kobe in that environment, in the trenches, how was that feeling? Like, was that probably your favorite basketball series you ever played in, one of the best of them? Well, me personally, when I was in Houston, I was in my prime in Houston,

but when I got to the Lakers the next year, I was still, you can't get worse in your prime in four months. So I was still, I was still, you can't get worse in your prime in four months. Yeah. So I was still, I was really, but you know, you playing with Kobe,

so I had to change my whole mindset. I actually asked for a trade that year because I just couldn't get off. And then I met with Dr. Buss. He was like, hey, we're just trying to win. And I had to say,

okay, role play, role play time, role play time, role play time. That was a tough adjustment. Yeah. So that was, that was, so I,

when I got to the point where I accepted the role, I started to excel in the role. You know, it's hard being a volume shooter, then going down to five shots, maybe eight, missing shots. You 0 for 4 one game, that feel like 0 for 20.

And they be open too. Don't miss the open ones. Oh my goodness. You know? Yeah. So then I had to get comfortable with being a role player and almost being

a bad player. You know? And you know, so you know, from that perspective, you know, it was a hell of a run. You know,

Kobe was incredible. And what was the first part of the question? I was kind of written. No, no, you're good. I was just saying like that environment, like how was it? Because like we all watched it as fans. Like, see, like that was part of the question? I was kind of written. No, no, you're good. I was just saying, like, that environment, like, how was it? Because, like, we all watched it as fans.

Like, that was one of the best series ever. No, it was crazy. So playing as the Celtics, me and Paul got history from Indiana paces. So when we was, you know, with the Lakers paces, I mean, sorry, with the Lakers and Celtics, it was tough. It was like a mirror. It was two very identical teams. Yep.

You know, we win game one. They come back and win. You know, we go to their place, get the first win. It's back 2-1 our favor. We had home court. They win the next two. In game five, Kobe scored 25 straight points. And I'm just in awe.

You know, we're in the finals, and I'm just like, for about four or five possessions, I'm just like, yo, this dude is incredible in my head. I'm not even focused on the game. I'm just like, I'm like, this is incredible. This dude got all our points. I'm trying to win a title, and he's doing it without our help. We was playing defense, but he's pretty much doing it all himself.

We lose the game, and then he was down 3-2. And then Phil Jackson came to me and was like, I need you to get buckets. He said, I need you to score. And I was like, really? And I did not expect to hear that. My mindset was just work. Then I came out. I had four points in the prior game. Four, then two. Then in game six,

I get 18. Then game 20. I mean, game seven, I get 20. So I was like, he gave me that extra confidence you know, to put the ball in the basket. I'm like, yeah, I've been waiting for you to tell me. You better hold me back. Yeah, but it was an incredible run.

You really kept your jersey on that whole day? Oh my goodness. It was crazy. I won my first title. I was involved. It was a different feeling because I'm like, oh, my goodness, I had a big game. You know, it's like, you know, so everything was complete. You know, I had a great individual career. I got a defensive player of the year. I was trying to get MVP. That didn't happen. Then I got my title. I've been an all-star once. So I'm happy. I'm content. You know, and then I'm like, damn.

I just didn't, I kept my, I kept my finger tape on. I didn't want to take nothing off. I kept my, I went out, we partied too.

I went out everywhere. I was, I went to like seven different clubs. I ended up in the studio with Dre. Performing champion, recording champions part two. Blowing it down. in the studio with Dre, performing Champion, recording Champions Part 2,

blowing it down. That was the end of my night. It was wild that I gave Chris Brown my jersey because I was just so excited. I was super excited and Chris Brown, he was there. He was like, yo, let me get that jersey. And I was like, damn, you really want my jersey?

Hell yeah, you can have it. You wish you had that shit back now, don't you? Nah, I was like, just don't lose want my jersey? Yeah. Hell yeah, you can have it. You wish you had that shit back now, don't you? Nah, I was like, just don't lose it. You know what I mean?

Just don't lose it. Like, this is important to me. I signed it and to this day, somebody went to his house and he still got the jersey. Oh,

well, that's dope. I respect that. Yeah, that's dope. Yeah, man, I was just so happy

that, you know, that jersey, it meant something to me and for somebody like him and his friend to ask for it, I'm like, hell yeah. Nah, that's dope. Yeah, man. I was just so happy that, you know, that jersey, it meant something to me. And for somebody like him in his firm to ask for it, I'm like, hell yeah. Nah, that's love. That's love. Made for This Mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles,

break free from the chains of trauma, and silence the negative voices that have kept them small. Through raw conversations, real stories, and actionable guidance, you can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. This is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into that.

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A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding. But the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on Everybody's Business from Bloomberg Businessweek. I'm Max Chavkin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

Every Friday, we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at what's going on, why it matters and how it shows up in our everyday lives. But guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to Everybody's Business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun?

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Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1. Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio

app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st, and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Ad-free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Yes, sir. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way.

Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is.

Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Caramouch. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them.

It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Is Paul Pierce up there in, like, one of your top matchups, though? In your top five so far as opponents?

Yeah, Paul weathered the storm. Because he could have folded. He could have folded. The amount of pressure I was putting on him every minute, every game. He never folded. You know, he had great games against me. And I had great defensive games against him. And offensive games also.

So he's definitely one of my toughest opponents. Yeah, Paul Pierce can hoop. Yeah, he's tough. He's clutch. You had one of my favorite players under 10 points before, too. I was a little upset. Which one? Melo, man.

Carl Melo. I love Melo. Melo's tough. Yeah. Melo. I love Melo. Melo, I had to give 100% against Melo. I couldn't take a breather.

So if you go out to the club against me, you asking to not score. You can't go out. So I don't know what he was doing on some of those nights. Melo was outside. Wait, what team was you on when you were? Pacers, man. He was on the Pacers when this happened.

Well, one time, you know, Mello, I thought that— obviously, he's a great player. I thought he could have worked a little harder to get in shape. He did at the end of his career. If you notice, at the end of his career, he was hustling. I thought if he would have put that in the beginning of his career, he would have been a different player. But he was just scoring the ball so easy, which, you know,

it made it easier for me. You know, a guy like LeBron, I wasn't ready for that. He's in shape. You know what I mean? He's in shape to play. So if you was out of shape a little bit, you know, it was going to be hard. And that's crazy because one of the first,

one of his first games in the league was against the Pacers. How was that? Like the first time you got to see, like play against them in person? He gave me 25. I remember the day clearly. 25 was a lot. 25 in my prime, that was like 38, 40.

And when he did that, I was like, this kid, nobody was scoring 25. You know what I mean? I was like, wow. To go in a game and tell somebody the average 25 that they not getting 25, you really guarding. Nah, he was like that, bro. Yeah, he was like that.

As we know. Yeah. He's one of the people, like, even we started to see it now with Steph, like, he's getting a celebration now, but it's like, we're going to really miss Bron. Like, we put so much pressure on him, and he overcame all that stuff,

but it's just like, y'all don't know. He came into the league and has dominated ever since. We've not seen somebody step into the league and dominate all the way through. All the way through. Who was an underrated player that, right, he's a spoke on, and people know that gave you buckets that you secretly like. Yeah, that's true. It's people that can say, I scored on you a lot, too.

But they wasn't superstars. You know, I would say some people out of my position, like a guy like Jamal Crawford. Not really in my position. I'm 260. You know, but I did have to guard him sometimes. How was that? That was tough. That was tough because he going this way

that's my 260 shift in this way his his 190 his shifting the other way that's not easy I gotta shift

he got the ball to the screen too that was the real ABC with a jumper yeah facts so he he was always tough you know

Rip Hamilton but even low level guys like there's guys like Vashon I don't know if you remember Vashon stupid clip

we tapped in you know what I mean like guys like that night little bump fade he was nice he could definitely shoot that thing

for sure Glenn Robinson big dog big dog was nice come on bro yeah he definitely he Indiana big dog was You're Glenn Robinson. Big dog. Big dog was nice. Come on, bro. Yeah, he definitely nice. He Indiana.

Big dog was nice. Yeah, he a G. But I got a story. We was playing against you. You was on the Knicks. You were a little older at this time. And I remember I got the ball in the isolation. I had you in the iso situation.

And I waved somebody off. You said, what the fuck? I don't know what I was talking about. I don't know what I was talking about. I didn't say anything. You was older, but I went by you later then. Oh, yeah. You probably know me. I don't know. I don't say anything

He was older But I went by you Later then He said What the fuck I was like When I was with the Knicks You was with the Knicks

I was in Atlanta And you subbed in He was a little older I was like Kyle was on the wing. He came and cut. And I was like, watch out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rightfully so. And I was like, oh. I got nervous for a second. And I went by him. And I kind of did a little layup. And then he started laughing. You know, I was still competing. Yeah.

I didn't have it. I ended my career when I was with the Lakers playing against the Spurs. I had meniscus surgery, right? So I was supposed to be out six weeks. I came back in five days. So I come back in five days off meniscus surgery because it was our last season. Steve Nash was there.

Dwight Howell was there. Kobe just got hurt and passed, so I knew it was over. And we just limped into the playoffs. And I was like, this is for sure the last time this group is going to be together. So I'm trying to play. We're going to try to win it. My mindset is always winning it. Now, it wasn't going to happen.

Spurs swept us. But I wish I would have never did that. That pretty much ended my career. So when I got to New York, it was an honor. I was so happy to be in New York. So in my mind we gonna try to win it you know I'm talking

myself into like I'm locking people up but I didn't that's what you heard you heard somebody that was trying to talk himself into it what the fuck

but I didn't have it it was kind of I was like watch out I was like man I'm tripping he about to either foul me

or he about to block the shit out of this shot he's about to either foul me or he about to block and sit out this shot. He's about to go back to the league with no foul. Yeah, he started laughing though. That's what made it cool. I remember I was playing against Jeremy Grant. It's two brothers, right?

It's two of them, no? Yeah, Jeremy and Jeremy. From Philly. He was in Philly. That's Jeremy. I went up for a layup. I was into my career. He's just punching.

I'm like, damn, my shit is over. That was that moment. I remember laughing like, yo, I can't do it. I'm trying. I got the rebound. I'm right here. All I got to do is lay it up. He jumped.

Boom. Get that out of here. I'm like, damn, my shit is over. But that's a real realization, like you said. Especially for athletes. Y'all been hooping your whole life. That's y'all job. So then when you get to that point, you kind of like, alright, I gotta

start thinking about what's next. I gotta start thinking about what's next. Like, even for you, you was just like, alright, I ain't about to be no vet on the bench, I gotta figure out what's next. Yeah, for sure. How is that, like, my Mitch, like you said, like, as far as talking about your mental health and stuff like that, people don't understand, like, and I've learned being around him a lot more and talking to other people,

like, as an athlete, that is your job, but those jobs typically retire at 30. What do you do next? And a lot of people have a hard time even getting to that question. It's true. It's true. It was tough for me too. I remember, you know, my last game in Stapleson, I had 18 in the second half. I wasn't playing all season, but I would play one-on-one against Jamal, Brandon. I was just trying to stay ready. I was mentoring because I was working them out. I was training Julius. So I was working them out. But when we was playing, I was competing.

So I'm like, yo, Brandon, let's get this one-on-one. D-Lo, let's get this one-on-one. Julius, let's get this one-on-one. So I was trying to stay ready. So then my last game in Staples Center, I'm playing a lot. I knew I was done. I kind of figured that this was going to be my last year.

I scored zero in the first half. I got 18 in the second half. So now we in Golden State. So I'm like, I just had 18 in the second half. And I felt, I was still good. I was still alive. So I'm like, I'm going to get 15 tonight for sure. So coach don't play me.

You know, it's my last game. That's crazy. It's my last game. I'm like, I play like maybe 10 minutes. I'm like, no way. So I walk off the court. I didn't say nothing to like, you know, the players, Steph, Andre. I was just heated.

So I walk off the court, you know, stayed silent. But I'm going to just replay my career in my head. You know, I'm grateful But I'm going to just replay my career in my head. You know, I'm grateful. I'm reminiscing. I'm like, what a shooter. It was like so much. We're playing. I did have a great time on a plane ride home, though.

That was my last plane ride. So we got twisted. 45 minutes, baby. We got twisted in 45 minutes, me and Nick Young. So the rookies, me and Nick Young. So the rookies, me and my guy Swaggy, right? So, you know, they gave me one of the greatest, you know, plane rides home. You know what I mean?

Because I was just like, you know, all the rookies is there. They've been really cool. I wake up the next day and I'm just super depressed. And I'm like, damn, what am I going to do? I know this is over, right? And then the next day, I applied for school. I applied for school at UCLA. I was just replaying everything in my head.

And I like to make decisions quick. I don't like to have time to waste. So I was like, all right, I replayed everything. All right, we out here. And that was tough. Even though what I'm doing to this day, seven years, eight years later, I went back to school for digital analytics, business analytics, coding, all the stuff that we're at where sports can affect the outcome of success. You know, but it was about four years, you know, where I was like, damn, this is tough.

Like, I'm really not doing, I'm not playing defense. You know, I mastered defense. How am I going to master something else? When so many people tell you, you can't. Yeah. You know, I mastered defense. How am I going to master something else? When so many people tell you you can't. Yeah. You know? But I believe that if you put your mind as an athlete, if you put your mind to something, you know, you don't have to be in a box.

Yeah. You know, just because you're not bowling, you know, walking like a ball player, you might not be walking like a ball player anymore. When you got something else you bring to the table. Yep. You know, you're good because of your passion.

You could have put your passion anywhere. Absolutely. You know what I mean? So when I said, okay, I'm going to downsize my life. I'm not going to, I don't want to be in the limelight. I'm going to be content. I'm going to strict. So that was my personal journey. Everybody got different journeys. Some people

commentating, some people coaching, but that those options not available for everybody absolutely not you know it's not available for everybody so i didn't want to leave that the chance so i was an architect major coming out of college which people don't know but damn you know so my first major was architecture i i had letters from princeton but i was also going through a lot you know i mean so i was like my whole my mind was clouded. But when I, I said, damn, I was an architect, man.

I said, I can do anything I want to. And when I told him about it, that's when I said, I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to be comfortable. So I went back to school and just did what I had to do.

For sure. Like you said, that passion, like we got so many black entrepreneurs that don't come from traditional backgrounds, but the things that they went

through, that adversity, it's easy to put it somewhere else because you already went through so much. Like, now this is kind of easy. I get to just use what I already got to do what I want to do. Oh, 100%. Absolutely, man. We appreciate you sliding, man.

Please tell the people what you got going on, man. Yo, man, thanks for having me. No, thanks for being here, bro. When they told me Naptown Finders was inviting me to Naptown, I'm like, yo. I was just pretty like, thanks, man. Appreciate you. Love, bro.

I was like, you know, my family's here. So it was definitely great to be here. We love Indiana. But yeah, so basically I'm just like raising a family. I'm coaching girls. I'm a volunteer coach at Cal State LA. Okay. So I've been doing that for five. I've been coaching girls for nine years. I was coaching while I was in the family. I'm coaching girls as if I'm a volunteer coach at Cal State LA. Okay. So I've been doing that for five, I've been coaching girls for nine years.

I was coaching while I was in the NBA after practice. I was going to coach my girls with the same coach in the last five years. We've been at Cal State LA coaching women's basketball. Last year we went to the NCAA tournament. Okay. For the first time in 12 years. Salute, salute. And this year they had us ranked number one. We had a rough start, but it's just incredible. It's my favorite thing I'm doing, you know, right now.

But the business is, you know, I'm building my business, which is like, you know, I have to do that. But, you know, coaching girls, coaching women's basketball is great. And, you know, building my agency is great and different things like that. But other than that, I just want to say thanks for having me. I love seeing you back doing stuff with the Pacers because we need that 23 up. We got to keep it real.

You're one of the most important Pacer players to ever walk through them doors. I told the Pacers I want to see them win a title. We have a different history that a lot of people don't hear the conversations between the individuals because it was just a lot of wounds. That's why I was open as being healed, you know, from the fans and the executives. But from that perspective, seeing a ring come here in Indiana would mean the world.

That's what I want to see, even though I'm definitely Laker for life. Love New York. Definitely want to see New York one day, too. But, you know, that one coming here, when it come, I'm going to feel like it's mine. That's real. And all the players feel the same way. Jermaine, everybody. When that ring come here, we're going to be just as proud as if, and we can't wait because we knew we had the opportunity to bring it to the city.

You know, and we feel like that was our fault. That was our bad. You know, Reggie don't got a ring. You know, that was our bad. So we just can't wait till this team just keep building. So, you know, we support the Pacers all day. Love the game. We appreciate you, man.

Like, share, subscribe, all that good shit. We'll be back next week, Club 520. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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