Club Shay Shay - Amanda Seales Part 1

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Amanda Seales joins Shannon Sharpe at Club Shay Shay for a conversation full of raw honesty about her life, career, and personal journey. Opening up about her Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis, Amanda discusses the challenges she's faced due to misconceptions about her personality, emphasizing her literalness and the difficulties it can create in social interactions. Reflecting on her upbringing, Amanda credits her supportive mother for accepting her and providing a strong foundation, despite societal norms. Then, Amanda shares her childhood memories of working for Disney and Nickelodeon, explaining how her experiences were unlike those depicted on the documentary All Quiet on Set, despite facing racism from other children. Amanda opens up about the complexities of navigating academia, like how she almost faced expulsion based on the accusations of another student which forced her to create her own major. Amanda comments on the growing number of hip-hop beefs, how they are good for the genre if they force performers to elevate their music, and says Nas won his beef vs Jay-Z. Amanda remarks on why her time with Floetry wasn’t always the smoothest which is punctuated by her being aired out on the Wendy Williams Show. Amanda's unwavering authenticity shines through as she provides unique perspectives on life and society, making this first part of her episode a compelling exploration of the multifaceted journey toward self-discovery and empowerment in show business. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I am going to share my journey of how I went from Christianity to now a Hebrew Israelite. For some former NFL players, a new faith provides answers. You mix homesteading with guns and church. Voila! You got straightway. They try to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Michael Rapoport, and I have been professionally podcasting for 10 years.

This is Michael Rapaport, and I have been professionally podcasting for 10 years. The podcast game has changed so much, and if you're looking for the most disruptive podcast in the world, then subscribe to the I Am Rapaport Stereo Podcast today. We're talking sports, politics, pop culture, entertainment, and anything that catches my attention. Listen to the I Am Rapaport Stereo Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. She is a young person. Do you know how disgusting that is? That cornball nigga who loves

to make himself look like he's the white people's savior. Who's that? Emmanuel Ako. Come talk to me, white people. I'm the black guy that's nice Man I know these people Well you're not saying it I am Look, all my life, been grindin' all my life. Sacrifice, hustle paid the price. Want a slice, got the rollin' dice.

That's why, all my life, I've been grindin' all my life. Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Che Che. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Che Che. The lady that's stopping by for conversation on the drink today is a multi-talented, prolific comedian, actress, writer, producer, director, TV host, syndicated radio host, author, podcaster, DJ, rapper, singer, poet, media personality, performer, cultural commentator, content creator, an industry veteran, social media star, NAACP Image Award nominee, hip-hop scholar, entrepreneur, CEO, a philanthropist philanthropist an activist a renaissance woman she calls herself a common sense specialist the people's favorite truth teller or truth translator as she prefers to call herself she says what folks are actually thinking

welcome to the show miss amanda seals you ran it down how was that i mean so how was the intro did i leave out anything that was the best intro i've ever had in my life you like that that was fabulous because you was a little worried i mean when you came in you was like maybe i wasn't worried you was like uh oh you don't know you're like you're so you're so you're so formal why are you worried that's me trying to welcome you that's that's not me saying that's how you welcome me in my own house no because i know that i have a lot of energy when i come into a space and people will be like oh you know it's a lot so i have been trained over the years to try to make people feel comfortable okay

so that's what i'd be trying to do well i'm trying to make you feel comfortable are you comfortable yes you know normally when we cook when people when guests come on the show, we like to have a toast. So it's bad luck to toast a spirit in water. Okay. So. A toast. All the best. Thanks for stopping by. But I had to jump on this right quick.

Go ahead with it. Real good folks. Go ahead and get your bottle. Get your bottle. This is Shea Bottle 48. So how are you? How am I? I am. That's a loaded question. How I'm evolving. That's

how I am. I'm evolving. I've had a lot of information and a lot of slander at the same time okay and um in the past month um it's just been a very like difficult time but there's been really beautiful things that have come out of it that i will speak to you know in this conversation well since we started there uh we'll start there and we can pick up go to another another direction a little later. What started this evolution? What caused Amanda to to all of a sudden see things or not see things differently, but maybe see things as they actually are? Because so many people were seeing what I was experiencing and they shared with me that they had had similar experiences. And so I recently was diagnosed as someone who has autism spectrum disorder, which is very difficult to identify in black women because of racism. So what what exactly is autism spectrum spectrum because i hear people say you're

on the spectrum it used to be called asperger's okay but that is no longer what it's called because to my knowledge asperger was a nazi okay um but what it's typically what it simply means is that your brain functions in a different way so you're neurodivergent and you also have a certain tendencies that are considered outside of what the neurotypical way of things is. Okay. And a lot of times that can have you present in a manner that people misrepresent. Okay. Okay. Which is the story of my life. Okay. And so when all of this started ballooning out of nowhere and people were saying, you know, you're unlikable and you're a bully. No, not, not you're a bully, but you're being bullied. And these were things, these were tropes that have been associated with me before,

but I'm in a new level of visibility at this juncture. And you get people saying things like you are difficult you are mean you are nasty and you know that you're none of these things right but they're attributing it to things that are not actually action-based like i don't cheat people i don't lie to people i don't stab people in the back i don't i don't operate in mendacity i am not duplicitous i don't do none of this shit but i have a certain tone about how i speak and that makes people feel like oh i mean because something about the tone that i speak in doesn't make them feel a certain way and so can i ask you this not to cut you off but were they people that you had a relationship with were this in the workplace that you became difficult or this people that you just have

general interactions with these aren't people i've met so if people the people who are saying these things about me have never met me and that's impacting you yes why for a number of reasons one i am not a sociopath um two it is actually a part of being autistic that you are very very very sensitive to what people think about you because you are always keenly aware that you are an alien. You are keenly aware that you are different. You are keenly aware that something is very odd about you. And you're always, always trying to make the room feel good.

We literally just talked about it because it's my habit, right? It's my habit to try i'm gonna cry already i've only been here for like five damn minutes it is my habit because i've always been labeled as this you think you know everything it's not that i think i know everything but i really did know the answer and i'm thinking i'm helping the room out by having the answer oh but they like i think you would know it all. You're a lot. You're a show off. You're extra. And my first, my sophomore year of college,

I was put in a suite with seven other women. And the day I got there, my name had been ripped off the door and thrown on the ground. I didn't, I didn't even know these women. And two weeks in of them not talking to me, I listen i'd like to have a friday night where i buy a bottle of tequila and we all just sit around and y'all could take shots and tell me why you don't like me and everybody's reason was i don't like you because you think you all laugh i don't like you because you extra i don't like you because you would show off none of that shit is anything having like i'm not harming them like i'm not i'm literally just trying to but they formed this opinion of you prior to meeting you

like i'm just trying to exist i'm literally just existing in the world and it's a fucking problem and so when you are also i'm also an only child you know like also so i didn't have like built-in support systems outside of my mom you know know, I didn't have like that sister, brother, sister support system. And so I've always felt like the outsider. I've always been an outlier. You know, it's always interesting when people call me the mean girl, I say I must have turned into a bad bitch because I was flat chested and loud for a really long time. Like I was always the bullied one. I've been bullied for all type of shit but when you ask like why does that bother you it's because no one wants to be invalidated i don't think anyone is really okay with that and i think that also as a black woman we are always kind of put in this position of appeasement and how do you not disrupt the space how do you not disrupt the space and if you're gonna not like me i would at least like it to be for a legit reason. Okay.

And I'm so happy to be in this space with you because, to be honest, like, I've spent so much time trying to convince people, Shannon, trying to convince people of, like, no, no, that's not what it is. That's not what it is. And it's like, I'm off it. Yeah. I'm off it. There is the truth. There is my truth. And a lot of times, baby, it's like, I'm off it. Yeah. I'm off it. There is the truth. There is my truth. And a lot of times, baby, it's the same.

And one of the reasons why you can see that is because when I recount a story, I want you to notice this when I recount stories. I very rarely include my feelings. It's never, I felt that this person did this. I thought that this person did this. It's like reading Game of Thrones. It actually happened. He's just giving you the sequence of events. You don't see the feelings of Catelyn Stark

at the fucking Red Wedding until you watch the show because in the writing, it is just a series of events. That is part of my autism. I speak in directs. I speak in linear spaces. I speak in literals.

That's part of the reason why people don't like me neither because I'm literal and I take things literally. So if you say to me, I'm going to be there at five. I'm like, why are you waiting here at five? They're like, well, I'm at five ish. Well, you should have said five ish. Cause I was waiting for you at five. So let me ask you this. How old were you when you got diagnosed? And did you always feel that you was different and you felt something was wrong? Well, what's today? Today is Thursday, the 18th. So 42 and however many days until I was just recently diagnosed.

OK. And this came out of this situation because so many black women who are autistic said to me, I see you, you need to. And I've always thought that I've always thought you can look at other interviews. I have mentioned before, like, I think I'm on the spectrum because I'm an eighties baby. This was not really a part of the narrative. Right. And as we started seeing more about autism and you start seeing shows about different characters and i start learning more like from people like holly robinson pete i'm like this feels really like me um but then you know i think sometimes we're afraid to learn certain things. Yeah.

So 60s and 70s babies just got whoop and put to bed. And to be honest, it's true. And to be honest, I just want to say like, so my mom. So in this revelation, my mother started looking up like symptoms of autistic children and was like, you exhibited all of this but i didn't know what to do with this she's a single parent she's trying to figure it out but i really just thank my mom because what my mom couldn't show up for me emotionally i realized that she was able to at the very least that's not even fair to say she was able to still let me be who i am instead of beating it out of me right which happens to so many kids who are misunderstood you know like and she's west indian and so like i'm over here being this precocious you know um

little quacious child that's always talking they're telling her like why are you letting her just do all this talking and all of that? Why? She's too fresh. She's too fresh. Why you doing all that? Why you letting her just run, Shimoto? And my mom is like, that's Amanda.

Like, let her live. Right. And most, let's be real, most parents. That wasn't happening. No. Shut it up. If my father had lived with me, I would never have been the person I am now.

Because he wouldn't have been able to handle it. And I believe that he is autistic, too. He's a bro. No, because he's brilliant. He's just he was never seen the way he needed to be seen. And so it it it turned into narcissism. But you can be brilliant without being autistic, though, right? Hell yeah. One thousand percent. Absolutely. But just both gifted and autistic. Yes. But Amanda, sometimes, you know, just because you have a special gift, that doesn't mean that, you know, you have a spectrum or you have a just because you see things differently.

It doesn't mean that you're on the spectrum or you. This isn't related to simply how I see things. This is related to how my brain functions. Yes. spectrum or you this isn't related to simply how i see things this is related to how my brain functions yes but just because your brain just because your brain functions differently from say mine yes so you feel just because your brain functions differently that that's what caused it or there's a clinical diagnosis there's some there are clinical diagnoses for you yes there are clinical diagnoses for autism yes yeah i know when you when you take the test i know when you take the test you're like hold up like this is i've been thinking my whole life

that this was a problem like the way the fact that when i the fact that i have to i have to doodle i have to draw all the time i have to be doing things all the time to be stimulated it's literally called stimming like the fact that when i'm baby, I have to rock like in a child pose, like literally rock. And my mom would be like, what, why is she doing that? We find out later, this is stimming. This is her literally dealing with her anxiety in a self-soothing way. The fact that even little things like if there was a bowl of peanuts right here, I would be lining them up in a row. I'd be lining them up in a row. Like be lining them up in a row like this these are these are small things that are indicative of like your brain functions in a

very particular way right okay and that functionality also displays itself in your behavior right so it and it's also atypical to the way that our society functions so for instance like this society is very keen on people performing. There's all this phoniness all the time. Yes. Right. Yes. And when you are autistic, you literally are unable to even catch these certain social cues. There have been twice in my life where I was in a fight and I didn't know I was about to be in a fight because I because I just didn't understand the social cues. Right. I literally didn't understand what was happening.

Okay. You know, I'm thinking like they said come outside and I'm like, what's up? And then I get punched in the fucking face. For the record, I won the fight. You let her get up. She got up first and you still won. Yes, sir.

Damn. You got squabble skills like that? I have rage. Oh. I have rage oh i have rage i'm very strong like freakishly you single yes you want to talk about it no no no we're gonna talk about we're gonna talk about it later so let me ask you this so there are a lot of parent teacher conferences with you, huh? Yes, but not for what? Well, what do you think they were about? You're excessive talking, maybe the doodling.

Funnily enough, no. You know what the parent teacher conferences are about? What? Amanda is sticking up for other kids in the class. Amanda is sticking up for other kids in the class. Amanda is correcting me. Like I had a teacher, Ms. Schwenk, who called a conference because she was talking about Aboriginal art. And she said that the, she stood in front of the class and said,

you know, the Aborigines are a Stone Age people. And I was like, ma'am, there are Aboriginals alive right now. Like they are a part of civilization. Like, what are you talking about? And she's like, well, no, you know, what I mean is that they've never advanced. And we in a classroom in Orlando, Florida. So like if we don't check this type of stuff, it's going to just continue.

So I was that student. Like I was the kid who was always raising my hand and just wasn't easily appeased by simply just someone being an authority. Right. And my was I was I love this because when when she called my mom and said, you know, I'd like to set a conference up because I have some complaints about Amanda. My mom said, well, you know, that's interesting because Amanda has some complaints about you. And so they came to the meeting. It was my mom and Mr. Wright and Miss Searcy. It's all black people at Dr. Phillips High School in

Orlando, Florida. And this lady sat there and she and actually you and Mr. Wright had the same bill. And Mr. Wright was like, all right. So, you know, we're here to discuss Amanda disrupting the class with her talking. And she was like, no, Amanda doesn't disrupt the class. They're talking. She actually helps the other students out. He's like, oh, OK. So is it about her grades?

And she's like, actually, no. One of her art pieces is featured in our exhibit at the library. He's like, so what are we here for she's like well you know she corrects me in front of the class and these three black people are like here we go with this racist bullshit you know because that's really what it is we're in florida in the 80s and the 90s and um but let me ask you this let me ask you this okay if you do you think she would have felt equally as offended if a white kid, because I'm assuming this teacher was white, right? If a white child would have corrected her, I think most teachers would feel some type of way if a child corrects them. That's not for me to surmise.

I'm just saying that my experience was this lady giving wrong information. Yeah. And I'm allowed to correct it. Now, this is the same lady who tried to accuse me of stealing. And when a white girl said, no, Amanda didn't steal it. I did. She was like, well, I think both of you need to go to the principal. Right. I'm in Orlando, Florida, which is a notoriously racist state, Florida in the nineties. And I'm talking to you about a white woman who was speaking about black people, indigenous people in a country where those same indigenous people

have had all of their land taken from them by former criminals that were sent there from england and she is calling them stone age people and i as a black girl the only black girl in her class am correcting her but i i my thing is you're right she possibly misspoke or she didn't know my question to you is why do you even feel compelled at this juncture in this interview? Why would you even feel compelled to try to because I don't want because I'm not defending. But my thing is, is that what I'm trying to say, most adults, when kids correct them or speak, feel some type of way. This is not unique to a black, white or white black. That's all I'm saying.

OK, I'm sorry that you took it that way. But I remember when I was growing up, my grandparents and parents said, hey, kids, stay in your place. Adults are speaking. That's all. I don't maybe that didn't happen where you were from in Orlando, Florida. But where I grew up in and when I grew up Kids did not correct adults So I apologize if you thought it came off as combative Let's get into your acting you've been at this game for a long time you You started in 1993 as a child actor. Was that something that you always wanted to do?

Not that I always wanted to do. I mean, I started dance very, very young. In 1989, I was on Disney. Well, not I was on. I was on Disney. Well, no, I was on. Oh, no. Sorry. In 1989, I went to an audition for Disney because they had something called the Sparkling Christmas Spectacular at Disney World in Orlando. And my mom was like, I think you should go on audition. So I went and auditioned and I made it, which I was not expecting to do.

It was like 1500 kids dancing and I made it. And I'm like, OK. And even though you're going to probably have an issue with this they were racist so when I was at Disney yes and I was in the situation at Disney I was there as the only black girl okay and there was a whole crew it's like 12 of us 12 of us and so I was called an n-word right there while I was there and I was also bullied while I was there because I was told that you're only here because you're black. You can't really dance. You're just here because you're black.

So don't get any ideas. So that's what I'm being told by the other children. Does that suffice as racist to you or would you want to call it something else? Is that just kids being mean? Yeah, the kids. So let me ask you a question. As a child, do you never said anything derogatory? You was just this model citizen as a child. I mean, children.

Now we're talking children, not functioning adults. Now, if you told me the adults, parents were telling you this or the execs or people that in charge of Disney are telling you this. I could agree with it. But at 89, you're probably eight, nine years of age. Maybe younger. So you have no problem with the children that were cursing out Ruby Bridges and the Little Rock Nine? Do you think that was just them being kids? Two things can be true. Kids can be kids and not function as an adult and things can be wrong. And sometimes when kids say things, they're repeating what they heard their parents say.

They don't know it's wrong. So what about the children who are receiving it that know it's wrong? Is that doesn't does that not matter? Yes. Yes. So if I'm so if I'm if I'm 10 and I'm receiving that treatment and I know it's wrong, does it make my experience of it less? It doesn't make it less valid. No. So that's what we're here to talk about my experience yes so my experience is that i experienced that and it was difficult so that's the valid part of this i'm not here to

protect those people because it's irrelevant so the conversation so when i'm talking about me being on this dance show i was there and it was there was other kids there who were actually really kind and they had been in like the business and so for instance I shout out to Melissa Salamone her grandmother they were well they were not rich and a lot of other kids were really rich and so they got they they got pushed to the side because they wasn't rich so my her mom her grandma and my mom like really like they kind of found each other and that's where I learned about headshots and um I'm like booking stuff and it's like oh

all this precociousness is actually being put to good use and then I booked like my first big job and a half. I was Katie. And I remember being at my fifth grade trip to a Kaiva River walk and my mom pulling up and was like, we got to go to this audition. I'm like, come on, we're about to go on a nature hike. And she's just like, No, we have to go. I really think we should go. So I'm just just like ah, so I was never Like the child actor like the typical child actor like and my mom was never like she was never a momager right, she was more so just like You know, it's like if you don't want to practice piano But your parents know that practicing piano was good for you like that's really what it was

It was like you don't want to go but I know this is good for you, and I'm the parent. So we don't go. So you so you said you weren't like a normal. So you did normal things like a normal child. You didn't have like you didn't get homeschooled because you was on this show and you did this. You were shooting three or four times, you know, four or five times a week. You had a normal life as a child. Yeah. And my mom was very about that. So like on my brother and me, when I was on my brother and me on nickelodeon right i was only supposed to be on two episodes but they really liked my work and so they said okay we're gonna write her into the whole show so my mom was like well what does that mean and they were like well that means we're gonna do uh 15 episodes uh no it was 12 episodes okay but i'm only in 10 because my mom was like, well, she has a trip with her aunt. So how did you feel about that?

Fine. Cause I was never about like this. This was a hobby. It was a hobby for me at that age. I was a gymnast. That was what I was more interested in. I'm like, I got a miss. Well, Bella Carolli wasn't coming to your school to get you to sign you out of school, Amanda. No, but my coach was picking me up from school to take me to the gym.

I went to Orlando Metro. Shout out to jeff and christy yeah i mean i was a gymnast for real for real so but i'm not sure i don't know but i'm saying i'm saying like nickelodeon this this is a paying job i'm assuming doesn't matter i'm a child remember how children have you know different things yes how we understand things so it didn't matter to me i cared about gymnastics okay so literally like when i was going into the audition for for nickelodeon you got you had to do this long walk from the parking lot to the audition and i just remember crying that whole walk because i was mad because the coach had said that day that i could work out with the level eights and my mom said no we got to go to this audition and i was just like i want to work out with the level eights but i booked the show so at the time the nickelodeon was going on i said britney spirit

amanda bines emma roberts did you did you meet any of these no did you did you know any did you know anything about did you know any other child actors well the ones that were on the show with me but i wasn't i mean i was very ins. Remember, I wasn't out here either. This was in Orlando. Okay. So like we shot on the same soundstage as all that for a little bit, but we never met any of them. Like literally it was just like in passing.

Then they left and Gullah Gullah Island took over. But you're very insulated. Right. I mean, you're not really like, I mean, also like, it's not like I'm the star of the show, you know, so i'm not going to i don't even think they had like nickelodeon kids choice awards or things at that time but uh we only did one season okay i mean they played the season for seven years right you know but it wasn't like and again like i didn't have a momager i didn't have like a publicist and you

know there's like a lot of kids in those situations their parents are seeing them as you know you know ticket yes you the meal ticket where your mom never viewed you as that my mom is dropping me off at work so she can go to work okay you know so i'd be on set you know by myself but i was just super duper duper duper fortunate that you know we were taking care of we were protected you know when you see this documentary quite on the set you just feel so so you feel so sad is is such a generous it's such a not accurate word but you just feel so bad that these children were not protected and they should have been protected by the adults that were around them and i was i was protected and the creators of the show calvin brown jr and alunga adele like they were really not playing around with the blackness

like everybody was black on this damn show and um that was essentially why the show actually did not go forward because they wanted them to coon it up and you know there was this kind of trend remember with jj and i don't like they wanted them to go that route and they was like no we're not doing that like this is about a black family like let them just be a black family. And so for me, it was very. It was a dope experience, but I'm very proud, though, that at one point they had called parent conferences with the with the director. What did you do? And so, no, with everybody, they had they were like, the kids acting up, so we're going to have parent conferences. And so everybody's looking at their moms like, you know, what's going to happen? And I just, you know, I was like, I don't know what this is about. And I'm very proud that I was sitting outside and my mom was in and out.

And I was like, why was it so short? She said, because when I went in there, the man said, Amanda's great. went in there the man said amanda's great so this whole amanda's difficult to work with narrative is is fascinating to me it's fascinating truly so as you said you only did this for a year you were big into gymnastics you really liked gymnastics and and like child acting was kind of like a hobby but do you look back on it or if you ever have did you like ever want your own show when you were a child or did you look back on and say man maybe I could have never never I never wanted my own show I had a really fulfilling life yeah you know like I'm in gymnastics I'm doing the child acting i'm also you know i'm thriving in academics you know my mom's got me in like extracurricular programs i get to travel with

my aunt and you know uh just do other she married a white man so we started doing white white people activities so now i'm doing scuba diving and skiing and shit um i'm in colorado you know i'm just getting a whole other experience. And, you know, for all intents and purposes, and I just want to also just bring this to light for you, because this is going to be a theme throughout this interview. OK, I am a scholar of race. OK, I'm not just someone who experiences it. I'm a scholar. I'm an academic of race. So I see the world through a particular lens because I am skilled at doing so. And because I'm an expert at doing so like my master's isn't just in African American studies it's the fact that I was taught by some of the greatest thought leaders of our time so when you hear me say these things I

would just like to ask that because you have someone who is an expert sitting in front of you to just consider versus be combative because there may be an opportunity here to see something differently because you have someone with you who is not just experiencing race but is also uh examining and there's a different there's a different intellectualism about that you know what i mean different intellectualism about that and i say that also because that's why i went and got my master's i went and got my master's because i know that we live in a world that loves to try and find ways to undermine black people's minds. They love to find ways to undermine black people's intellect. Look at this DEI bullshit.

This DEI bullshit is trying to say it's trying to state that in order to include black people, we have to lower the standard, which is unconscionable. Because if black people with no schooling were able to build the White House. Because if black people with no schooling were able to build the White House, if black people with no schooling were able to create all of these beautiful spirituals that we still sing to this day, if black people with no schooling were able to till these fields and know the ways of agriculture enough to create the actual breadbasket of this nation, then you telling me that their descendants are not smart enough to get into Harvard without you lowering a standard, that's because DEI and affirmative action is not about lowering the standards, it's about expanding the opportunity. So I went and got my master's

so that when I am in spaces and I do bring up race and I talk about these things, it's not just based on experience. It's based on actual study. OK, I'll also ask that because if I don't see things exactly as you see them, I don't expect you to. Don't take it as being combative, combative. You see things one way.

I might see it a different way. That doesn't mean I'm being combative. I would say it's combative when there's a undermining of what how someone sees something but why are you trying to undermine how i see it because it's my experience okay well i'm telling you i don't know my experience but i'm saying see you take it as if i don't agree with you i'm being combative no i don't i take it as if i have an experience and you're telling me that my experience isn't what it is no i you're telling me that my thinking somebody is racist who i was in a classroom with for a year that you have never met. You are you are you are emitting doubt upon that because you because of your own experience.

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And I said, I could have believed, I believe based on my experience and a lot of people is that kids correct an adult, no matter what society it is, is frowned upon. That's what I was saying. You took it to that. I'm trying to minimize your experience and say, well, I'm defending her when I wasn't. OK, I think there's something worth saying that that could come off that way and it should be something to consider. Well, well, see, again, you're going to consider it your way because you see things like you said, you see things through your prism. OK, I think it's fascinating to watch you accuse me of doing the thing that you're doing. No, I think it's fascinating.

This is you. This is your interview. so I won't interject what I think. But anyway, your mom is white. My mother is not white. Why do people keep saying my mother is white? She's West Indian. She is a black woman from Grenada, which is a black island. She married a white man. No, she did not.

You say you started doing white things? My aunt married a white man no she did not you say you started doing white things my aunt married a white man that's what i said i said my aunt married a white man oh i'm on trips to my i have no my mother is a black woman i misunderstood well listen i get attacked for this and people try to undermine the validity of my voice and and my my even my access to blackness on a regular basis by trying to make up this thing that my mother is a white woman okay my mother is a black woman from grenada grenada is so black that maurice bishop said in a speech that the fbi was worried about grenada more than they were about cuba because if grenada really did become communists they could influence black

americans because we are black and speak english that's how black grenada is well that's what me and my father is black from roxbury boston that's on me because i i when i heard married i i didn't i didn't hear the part that you said it was your aunt that married so okay we good we good that night we good so so what made you rich um after you did you receded from the spotlight after you did my brother and me well i didn't receive i just was a kid i just was other things i didn't even think i was in the spotlight when i did my brother and me i mean you have to understand it was really like first of all it's five minutes from my house yeah it's literally the universe was five minutes from my house i literally would just drive over it's you it was across the street from my high school so

you really could have walked yeah like i could i mean it was so it wasn't as i mean the other kids on there that were from la i mean they have to travel from la like so there's a much bigger experience attached to it for them whereas i'm just like going down the block right to do a tv show for a few months. But that's a pretty big deal, Amanda. I mean, the kids treat you differently knowing that you were like, like, OK, that's a pretty big deal. Look at Amanda. Yes, but I think I didn't make it a big deal.

So, you know, that's kind of how I've always operated. Like if like it's like I don't think like even when people tell me I'm a celebrity I'm just like I don't consider myself a celebrity like I don't move that way like people will people see me by myself and be like you by yourself it's like that's just kind of like I just don't do the hullabaloo right but um no so I just I mean I did the show I went back to eight and I went to eighth grade right and and you know there wasn't like it's not like Orlando was like a big industry right so after that I went to eighth grade and then I really got into gymnastics and I just really that was my passion I mean to this day I'm obsessed with gymnastics I I mean people know that

I love me some gymnastics we just saw our first uh gymnast from an hbcu win the nationals which i just think is incredible and um shout out to fisk and i so i just went it wasn't that i receded from the spotlight it was more so that i just went on with you graduated yeah i just went on with my life you know and then i went to performing arts high school okay dr phillips is one of the greatest high schools of all time so we're clear um i mean our alumni are like wayne brady and joey fatone and louise fonci and eddie wong i mean we've you know my homeboy michael scott who's the genie in aladdin on broadway like we just have a really beautiful legacy uh and so that's where i went to high school and so i was really shaped I would say by my gymnastics coach my teacher and like the head of the director of the theater program in high school Karen Ruggiero and my mother like

these three people really shaped me and these were people that yelled a lot like you were being yelled at you are being you are expected to be perfect um I had to exhibit a high level of professionalism from like a very young age, which is also why when people say I made it difficult to work with, I just laugh because like I've always been I mean, I've been paying taxes as I was eight. I've been in this business for so long. And then even when I was in spaces that weren't professional spaces, you were expected to carry yourself. I mean, you've played high level sports, so you're expected to be obedient. You know, you're expected to show up ready to work. Yeah. You know, you're expected to be self-motivated. You know, it's not enough for your coach to cheer you on. No, you better be able to do it whether they're there or not. The best ones are self-motivated. Yes. So that is gymnastics. And that was theater and theater at my school was like football at FSU. I mean, it's top notch and at UF. And so like, that's what I come from. I come from people expecting you to be at your best when they're not looking. That's where

I come from. And that's how I have always operated. But, you know, you go through life and you realize that's not how everybody operate. Yeah. I think that's the biggest mistake that we make because we we want to see in others as we see ourselves. I show up on time. Why can't you show up on time? I did this. Why can't you do this? I did this. Why can't you do that? It takes time to get grace. It takes time to learn grace. It takes time to understand the beauty and difference versus the frustration. We also don't live in a tolerant society. goes which you keep accusing me of which is not true um but there's really something so great that you learn in maturity which is how to identify people who have like differences from you and people who are harmful to you right and like that's the dance i think for a lot of us but i really just thank those people because

they gave me discipline and they they gave me my own discipline like i didn't have to be disciplined by them you know i'm saying like they taught me regimen they taught me discipline and when you are somebody who is an independent thinker when you're somebody who's an outlier who goes against the grain you better have motherfucking discipline because you're gonna be by yourself a lot but you said in you know say you say this society teaches you individualism but i thought it would i thought you were supposed to be an individual stand out while being able to blend in am i wrong um so you know colonial society teaches individualism over community it's basically when i say individualism in this context, I'm referring to like the quest for self.

Like as long as I'm winning, it don't matter about anybody else. Right. That idea. OK, OK, OK. It's like people who will say like racism doesn't exist because I succeeded. And like there's so many factors that had to come into play for me to succeed. Right. So there's I come from a middle class home I was very fortunate to be very smart I'm light-skinned um I'm well I was well behaved uh I had really really really good educators that cared about me right I could have been born 10 miles away and had educators that saw me as a nuisance right and then they put me in

fucking disciplinary classes etc etc right um I was somebody who was very able to very quickly pick up on like oh I if I I can't get in trouble I can't have a low credit score like I have to be perfect perfect perfect perfect so like in order for me to succeed, I had to be and we all notice. I mean, we listen to Papa Pope on scandal scandal. You have to be 10. You have to be 10 steps perfect than everybody else. So, you know, irregardless of the racism you it's indicative of the fact that, you know, you've had to be so flawless to get there. Right. And it shouldn't be that way.

So the individualism is more so this idea that if one person makes it, then it's an indicator that the system or the institution doesn't exist. But if you know, I tell people this, you can be good at any game if you understand the rules if you know that you have to be 10 steps better isn't it easier because you know this going in without having to find it out ex post facto like after the fact so you knew that amanda has to be 10 times better than her counterpart so you prepared yourself to be 10 times better to be more prepared to be more disciplined to be more dedicated to be more informed i don't know if i would say it's easier though i mean i think easier i don't know that that's the word i would use i mean i think it's i mean i guess there's something to be said for like when you have a

guide right there's you know you're you're given a bit more to the game, but I don't know. I think it's easier to take a test if it's an open book test. One thousand percent. But if you still don't know where to find it in the book. Right. You still ask out. Right. Because you never read the book in the first place.

So I think the other thing was having people around me that knew how to find it in the book of me. That knew like if it says that I got to be that much smarter i still have to learn how to access my intellect right if it says i need to be more regimented more more regimented more disciplined i still have to know the tools on how to do that it's like when you have to learn like you know like when you'd have to take like notes taking you're like i take a class on how to take notes yeah yeah because if you don't know how to take notes exactly and you're wasting your time. Right. The 82-game preseason is in the books, and it's finally time for the real season.

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the first time when i was 12 i was like I've been here my whole life yes my people and also there was a cultural difference in New York so my directness that I had always been vilified for that people would tell me from a young age like you're you're rude you're mean just because I'm direct in New York that was the culture so I just felt for sure also a certain level of acceptance immediately because I'm hearing people talk how I talk and they're not being vilified for it. They're not being put in a corner for it. You fit in, huh? You fit in. No, you fit in.

No, that's what I'm saying. I fit in because I felt normal. And I had not felt normal. And as a child, not feeling normal feels terrible right um and even with hip-hop like my fascination i feel like with hip-hop was that i'm hearing people spit and talk in a way that i exist like when you hear interviews with mc light and queen latifah they talking like this you know i'm saying this is how new yers talk and I'm like that's how I talk I talk just like that but I'm from a place in Orlando where they want me to talk like this and if I don't talk like this then I'm not feminine

if I don't talk like this I'm not sweet I'm not kind and I it's like the amount of effort it takes for me to talk like this. It also is just not who, it's just not who I am. Right. So, um, I really loved New York. And also,

so at the time, uh, the top three schools for theater were NYU. Uh, well in order, Juilliard, SUNY purchase and NYU. And I was again I was at Dr. Phillips and we were a theater school and it was this legacy that people you know was a big deal on

where's everybody going to school where's everybody going to school and so I got into Purchase um I got a call back to Juilliard but I got into Purchase I got into NYU I got into Purchase. I got a call back to Juilliard, but I got into Purchase. I got into NYU. I got into like the other schools that I auditioned for, DePaul and SMU. And going to Purchase was my dream. I mean, that was really like where I really, really, really wanted to go. And I talk about this in my new book, Body Waving Through the Bullshit, which is coming out in 2025. But I talk about just how like going to purchase was like this culmination of like all the work that I'd been doing. Getting in here was was it. And then I got there and I was like, oh, I don't know because ultimately what we were doing in high school was actually

low-key more advanced wow than what we were doing at purchase i mean at dr phyllis we're doing five shows a year right we're not just doing the music man and calling it a rap um so we were in a conservatory in high school. So when I got to purchase, it was like all of a sudden like I I had you know some height and some womanness about me you know and now I'm going to this school and I'm like these are men these are like full-grown men like these are not boys they're men um and again social cues and awkwardness and I'm trying to figure it out and I'm you know I'm in this city but the first night that I was at Purchase, everybody would like gather on the mall and cyphers would start the first night every year. And I just remember watching people just stand in cyphers and rap. And I was like, oh, my God, I am in the right place.

Now, what it turned out to be was that i ended up getting kicked out of the conservatory tell me why so part of the i guess the way that these schools retain their um like their status is by who they by how many people they cut every year and so because of that like there's certain people that would do things to try to avoid from getting cut and so one of the guys in my class felt like he was going to get cut so he decided to try to sacrifice me so that he wouldn't get cut so he created a story and he told the teacher a lie he told her that I was listening to my headphones in class um which I was not but she was already a baddie lady anyway and again I'm the only black girl in

my class so like you're just a very easy target and I've been writing about this so I've been talking to my classmates and just we just thinking back on like the type of shit that used to get said and um she just lost it i mean she lost it she was like i can't believe this i can't believe you would be here listening to your headphones you have the attention span of a three-year-old you are never gonna make it mind you have already been on shows um but but can she see you in the class like i mean you should just look i mean what whether would you have 100 students in your class? She could have just looked at it like, well.

No, I had 20. Well, damn, it ain't that hard to see who has those headphones or who. I mean, they were big back then. They don't have the little eyes that you and I have now. So what would you deduce? Why would she just flip out? why would she just flip out? That would lead me to speculation, conjecture, and innuendo.

So you were there. I mean, had you had any run-ins with this teacher prior to this? So you were a model student in class. Straight A's. Straight A's. Every class, straight A's. And that one incident possibly led to you so then she goes on a mission to get me kicked out of the conservatory and you can I mean you can look at the transcript and it's just like

so all of her reviews up until this point stellar stellar amazing amazing amazing and then all of a sudden there's no excuse I don't know I don't know that's why I'm asking you I don't know reviews up until this point stellar stellar amazing amazing amazing and then all of a sudden there's no excuse i don't know i don't know that's why i'm asking you i don't know but she definitely went the distance and she got me kicked out and i appealed um the two heads of the conservatory at the time were two brothers dean erby and uh the late israel hicks and uh i appealed and i had i asked everyone in my class if they would be willing to write a letter in my defense even the motherfucker who lied wrote a letter in my defense because now he felt bad and the uh the the head of the appeals process said we can't take the word

of 25 students over a tenured professor so what we're going to do is we will reduce your uh sentence from an expulsion to a suspension so you can take a year off and then come back what so because this is a conservatory within a liberal arts school you have like what's called your core classes that you got to take you know right so basically i was allowed to go take my core classes and then come back to the conservatory the next year um but during that year where i was taking my core classes i realized i didn't want to go back to they dusty ass conservatory they could keep that and uh so then I was like I'm gonna drop out of school I'm gonna quit school I don't want to be here I'm gonna drop out of school because like

everyone was just majoring in shit that I just had no interest in people majoring in like you know psychology or sociology and I worked at the gap and all of my bosses had all these degrees. And I'm like, well, you telling me about how to fold jeans, but you got a sociology degree. Clearly that shit ain't working for you. So I'm like, and also this is going to cost me a bunch of money. So I'm like, I just can't see myself spending all this damn money to get a degree just to say I got a degree right now my mom is losing it you know everybody's just like oh my god what's gonna happen to amanda so you called your mom and told her that you had what what transpired or did you hold yeah no no i don't i

can't hold water yeah i can't hold water um yeah i can't i can't i can't hold other people's secrets not my own um yeah, I told her everything. How did she take it? I mean, she was livid because she knows it's not factual. One thing about Amanda, she's going to give you a red lip, a winged liner, and straight A's. Right. Okay. One thing I'm good at is school, baby.

I do school. So for me to get kicked out of school fuck out of here also i'm a brilliant actress so there's also like no version of this that's related to my skills like i didn't get here by accident this is the number two conservatory in the nation i am one of only 20 students and i won like national scholarships i won the arts scholarship, the NFA art scholarship. I won the Donna Reed scholarship. They're picking two students out of 1500 auditionees. Like, so I'm proof,

I'm proof positive here. So there's nothing legitimate. And you know, for all, for all it's worth y'all, like I'm saying y'all to the people, but like, I,

I am very self-aware about like, okay, I could have done that better, you know, but in this situation, it's like, no, I really showed up. So, but nonetheless, my mom was panicking because, you know, that meant like I'm coming into the real world. Like, so what is this going to be? Like, I'm going to quit school and be a waitress and try and make it in New York City. Like her just trying to imagine that was just like, oh my God. and make it in New York City.

Like her just trying to imagine that was just like, oh my God. And then I had a professor who was like, you know, you're too smart to quit school. We're going to figure this out. And I told her like, I'm not going to stay here on some bullshit. And she found out that I could create my own major.

And so in order to create your major, you had to connect two schools of study so there's like the school of natural sciences the school of social sciences the school of theater arts and film and so i had already had 32 credits from my freshman year in acting but all i cared about was learning about black history because i had never been taught it okay like you know i mean you hear you learn about yeah yeah basically yeah but within my core classes i got to take harlem renaissance i got to take you know uh african american women writers i got to take you know african american history 101 and you just like you feel like you have you're doing a deep dive. But you feel like you've been betrayed. Yes. Yes, absolutely. So at that point, I was like, this is all I care about.

This is all I'm interested in. And so I was able to create my own major because they didn't have black studies at my school. So I made up the major. Right. Black studies with a concentration in the visual and performing arts. So I combined the School of Social Sciences with the School of Theater, Arts and Film. That meant I had to go back to Dean Irby and have him sign off in order for me to get this major. And he was my advisor. So he's the one who watched me go from straight A's to then some random shit. And I'm looking at Dean like, what are you going to do about this? He's like, you know, I don't really know what to tell you. I'm like, God damn it, brother. But I came back to him with that piece of paper.

And I remember him looking at it and pausing. And I said, I need you to sign this because you tried to ruin my life. You told a man that? I need you to sign this. Yeah, when people tell you that you have to take a year off of school for no reason because they want to keep a quota for their little college. Yes, you tried to ruin my life. I need you to sign this so what did he say he signed that and then i ended up graduating on time and i was a commencement

speaker and i got to say what i needed to say and you can watch the speech on youtube you got a master's degree in african-american studies with a concentration on hip-hop from columbia yeah what made you what made you need an advanced degree well that's what i mentioned earlier it was that i felt like i want to i want to be a voice of liberation and i want to use my art to do it and I know that in this nation they need you to have certain you know for for whatever reason they they need you to have certain credentials to legitimize you and I also knew that they would need it from a predominantly white institution

so Ivy League even better even better the other reason was, again, like I knew that I'm an artist, but I also and I also knew that I I had a purpose here. I've always known that I've always known that I have a purpose. Even if I don't know what the purpose is, I've always known that I have a purpose. And the hardest times, the hardest times in my life have been when I wasn't sure of what that purpose is. And at that point in time, and I still have the essay, like I said, I need to come to Columbia. my people i want to speak with my people i want to speak like in the effort in the effort of my people and i'm going to need as much information as possible to do so to the best of my abilities you have a concentration in hip-hop yeah what was it being in new york and and seeing all this and the battles and the going on you like yeah okay so what made you do the concentration in hip-hop so in order for black culture to continue to thrive and grow it has

to also be protected one of the ways uh that culture gets protected is it becomes academized. And, you know, we saw that happen with jazz. We saw jazz go from this like music of sex to an actual part of academia. Right. Hip hop as well was happening at that time. Like you see like Ninth Wonder teaching classes and Chuck D and KRS-One and Bun B. And so you started to see the academizing of hip hop as not just an art form, but as a culture that has more to it than just music, right?

You got breaking, you got graffiti, you got DJing, you got style, you know, it becomes something that is now a part of black history versus just like a thing that's being done. And so at the time I was also working at Sirius Satellite Radio and I would be in my studio like history versus just like a thing that's being done and so at the time i was also working at serious satellite radio and i would be in my studio and over there is dana dane behind me is grandmaster flash to the right of me is mc light over there is red alert i'm surrounded by the

history right so i'm like well this is an opportunity for me to put this on record and have archival study that is growing, you know, with these people. So what I would do is all of my papers, one third of them would include some interview with somebody within hip hop. So no matter what class I was in, whether it was within the African-American studies, whether it was in the African-American studies department or not, whether it was in the African-American studies department or not, I would find a way to tie whatever the thesis was of that paper for the final paper. I would tie that thesis to hip hop in some way. And I would involve in a interview with, you know,

anybody that made sense. So like my, my graduate thesis is about how the hip hop album is a continuation of the African-American narrative. And so in that paper, I do that first part where I just explain my thesis. The second part was a comparative analysis between Richard Wright's Native Son and Biggie's Ready to Die. And showing with the album and the lyrics of Ready to Die, how this is a novel on wax. And then the third section was interview about the importance of storytelling to hip hop.

And in that interview, it was like everybody kept saying Nas, kept saying Nas, kept saying Nas. And then finally I was able to interview Nas. And so the third part of it is interview with a lot of people and finally Nas about the necessity for storytelling in hip hop. And that proved my thesis.

You know what? Since you are a hip hop scholar, you see all the beefs going on. Are they good for hip hop? Are they good for hip hop? I mean, it's a different kind of beefs than the one I grew up with. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think anything is good for hip hop that elevates skill. I think anything is good for hip hop that brings attention to hip hop as an art form versus as a gossip thing. You know, I feel like so much of what we hear about hip hop ain't even about the the music right you know it's like this nigga and his baby mama you know and this nigga got arrested for this bullshit you know so when it's something that's really more focused on the music

i think that is good for hip-hop i think it's also interesting how it went because i think what's also good for hip-hop is just the maturation of hip-hop. You know, and it is very mature for J. Cole to say, you know, I did this, but then it didn't feel right, so I'm stopping. It is, yeah. But here's the thing. I grew up, the first beat for this was Kumo D and LL. Okay. And then, you know, obviously you came on, you had Ice Cube with NWA, no Vaseline.

You had Big N, Tupac. I mean, you know, Big N, Tupac hit. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here. Just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic,

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day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season's all about fans and what the rise

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On the show, we dissect everything going on in the game straight from the biggest players in the world. Plus, serve up recaps of all the matches and headlines in the game, including a rundown of the US Open every Monday. Listen to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast every Monday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hit them up, and then you have Jay-Z and Nog.

That's still the hardest one, right? Hit them up is the hardest one, right? That's right. Ah, come on, come on. We're going to have to edit this out. We're going to have to edit this. That's the harder one. No vacillation.

Where's the motherfucking mission? You claim Westside is not coming quick with game. You claim to be a nigga. I have had it is I doubt that's the hard one. No, that's What whoa, whoa, but so it's normally a one-on-one What we see now with the okay, we see Ross coming at Drakeke we see kendra lamar we see this we see future metro it seemed like they all was like drake is thanos and everybody coming at him did i miss something that's a different i hadn't i hadn't seen it like that but that's not too far off um but you know why not you know things such things to to to to changes we need we need different shit so okay i mean when hove came remember hove didn't just come at nas he came at mob deep as well rest in peace to p yeah he put a lot he was on that that screen yeah that that that summer jam screen pop came in

also i know i know i know um being here being here um so what's up with the women beef you okay with the women beefing beef is a part of hip-hop okay i just want it to stay on the wax you know that's that's really the goal is that for it to stay on wax but it challenges you it forces you to get your lyrics up and that's what as long i just want to see people rap right i want to see people like rap well that's really it like to me and i know people gonna fight me for this but y'all already want to fight me anyway i feel like naz won the jay-z beef because jay-z's skill in my opinion like diminished on that last rap when he's talking about i left a condom on your baby yeah i was like now see that that's not i gotta hit you low no i gotta hit you low you don't talk to all you're here to get me i'm gonna go low i'm going low but he started

it i keep telling you you'll get the best of me. When they go high, I go low. I'm not saying that you can't go low, but I just felt like his rhyme quality, like normally, Hov would have done that in a very metaphorical, clever way. But that's the old Hov. I mean, now Hov is above that. Now he wouldn't even dignify any response somebody taking. I'm talking about then.

Yeah, but I got to get you You think whole one that beef? That's all I know But it's just like just like when Park said he said I hit your wife I'm not my wife off limit Shannon. I'm not I'm not talking about What they said about how they said it yeah like poc delivered that in the way poc delivers he didn't change up the hove i know the hove who says things like can't stop by from drinking my ties with tatai down in nevada haha pop upward life yeah that seemed like a

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an account, use the code SheaShea for $20 off your first purchase terms apply again Create an app redeem the code Shay Shay for $20 off download game time today last-minute ticket lowest price guaranteed you're a poet and This you were in a group called floater, right? Is that and you replace one of I guess one of the founding members and that yeah Natalie, hmm and And you replaced one of the, I guess, one of the founding members. Yeah, Natalie. And read a lot that you weren't well received. Do you know? I mean, if they're turning their back, they're booing.

I mean, I guess the people that you're trying to read the poetry to. Incorrect. Okay. Correct me. I will write about this extensively. I was asked to join Floetry after Natalie. I was told that Natalie left. Apparently, that was not the case. Okay.

But that's what I was told. Okay. And then we prepared to go on tour. And they did not tell the fans that Natalie would not be joining Marsha on the tour. Okay. So when I come on stage, I do not resemble Natalie in any shape, way or form. Right? Right.

So immediately, our first show in Boston, people are like, well, who the fuck is this bitch? But I can sing and I know the songs. So the first show, great time. Good job. But now the word is out. Natalie ain't on the tour. It's Amanda, whoever this broad is. It's Amanda Seals.

Well, actually, no, I had a name by then because I had done MTV. Right. So we now went from Boston. The next show that we were doing was somewhere else. I can't remember, but maybe Philly. Okay. Um,

and so I guess to just correct the scenario, it's not that people were mad at me because of how I was delivering the work. It was that they felt duped by the ticket sales because they had bought tickets to see the flowetry they knew and they were protesting that this was not the flowetry they knew nonetheless every time I won them over because I am talented so every time I won them over and I remember you know being at, being at Club Love in D.C., and they had their backs turned to the stage, and it was like I had to,

it was like I was on The Voice. You know, I had to get them to turn them, to spin them chairs around. But I sang my, I sang my song. That really happened. So they really,

my nigga, yes. What are you talking about, yes? Do you mind if I call you my nigga? You can call me whatever you like. I mean, I mean, I mean, that's a fire, that's a fire movie. I'm talking about literally like. Do you mind if I call you my nigga? You can call me whatever you like. I mean, that's a far improvement. I'm talking about literally like, and then I'm over here. All you got to do is say yes. And they like, I can't deny what you feel.

Let me undress you, baby. Maybe this little skinny light-skinned bitch got something with her. Yeah, that really happened. But I wasn't doing poetry. I was singing. Okay. So, okay, you with her the whole time. Okay, they like me.

They like Amanda. Okay. Yeah, but Marsha never made it any easier. Why? Why? Yes, why? Why did you? Okay, Natalie's gone. why yes why why did okay madeline i think i think i think i think this is now see i'm saying i think okay i don't know okay this is your point of view this is your pov i think that they wanted me to quit why because then she could proceed on the tour by herself and she was in the process of going into her solo career and the way that i was treated was so just shitty that i think they were really trying to force me to quit and they almost did they almost got me out of that and you said

honestly it wasn't even me who said it was our drummer at the time daryl and me and daryl didn't even rock with each other but he spoke into me and he was like because i was really like these people i'm out of here i'm out of here because every show we would come on the stage and she would not even say my name and every night she would say to me okay so this is how we're going to start the show tonight so i never got a rhythm can you imagine you on the football field and every night the quarterback coming with a play you ain't never ran before. You ain't never seen this shit. He like, all right, we want to do we're gonna do a 52 banana split with a cherry on top. You like that? We ain't never done that before. I thought we were doing the banana parfait. Right. So that's what every single night and it would get more and

more egregious. I just never forget we was was in North Carolina and she was like, all right, so how we're going to do this is I'm going to come on stage. I'm going to start singing Butterflies. And then you're going to come on stage, but you're going to like dap up the other musicians. But I'm already going to be singing. I'm already going to be singing. You're going to dap up the musicians and you're going to come on stage. After you dap up the musicians, you'll just like start singing and then we'll just do

the show. And I was like, so at no point you're going to say like, this is Amanda Seals. And she was like, I just don't want to, I just don't want to disrupt the audience. Now, if I'm being generous, maybe she was just trying to mitigate the, I don't know, maybe she was just trying to mitigate the nastiness from the audience.

But like, if that was the case, she wasn't communicating that to me. So I felt very, very, very, very isolated in the situation and like nobody was communicating this to me so at no point in time after natalie left the group okay you do the first show in boston and then you go to philly or you go to baltimore wherever did she say natalie is no longer in the group we have a lovely other lady named amanda no and she's unbelievable no no and we didn't do press and i remember wendy williams so we get to atlanta okay now um what people didn't know was that even before any of this has started i was music director so oh god come on you were months before

you ain't supposed to do that i didn't even know he was a music director i was already this nigga before but then once you find out you like i can't do this well no my point is that i had an insider oh oh okay okay okay okay so you have you got some good intel okay that's all i'm saying yeah so you know so he's to tell you everything. All you got to do is say yes. Can't deny what you feel. Let me undress you, baby. So he's telling you. So we're in Atlanta.

And I had a solo song that I would sing. That was one of my songs. So we're in Atlanta. And after rehearsal, he pulls my coat. He's like, hey, she's trying to cut your song but she didn't tell me this he's like she literally cut your song from the set list which would mean that we would be in the middle of the show and i would realize that my song is not happening and you're gonna be out there like damn what my song so i said i said for sure for sure for sure okay but

now we got to get in the car together me and marcia we got to get in the car together to go back to the hotel on the way to the car my boy dwight willacy texts me and says hey you listen to wendy williams also like why am i just casually listening to William Williams but he's like turn on Wendy Williams Natalie is on Wendy Williams Natalie is on Wendy Williams talking about the real flowetry I don't know who Viv Samanda is I'm not sure how she got involved but I am the real flowetry I am the real flowetry I'm working on my accent I'm the real flowetry and so if you're going to these shows just know you're not supported in the real flowetry we're sitting in the car and I just found out you're trying to cut my song and i said did you try to cut my song from the show i don't know what you're talking about i said i was

told that you're trying to cut my song for the show she's like who told you that she actually didn't ask she actually didn't ask um to my recollection she didn't ask but nonetheless it was just like i want my song on the show and so she's like all right whatever but now i'm texting i'm seeing from dwight that like natalie is on wendy williams talking crazy so i run up to the room and so now i'm like yo apparently natalie's on wendy williams so now we turn this shit on the car we sitting in the car listen to this she ain't saying nothing. We get to the hotel. I go to the room. I'm still listening.

Natalie is burning me up. She's like, Amanda Sears is not real. She's fake. This is all fake. Fake, fake, fake. So now Marsha calls me like, did you listen? I said, yeah. What you going to do about it?

Nothing. I said, oh, okay. listen i said yeah what you gonna do about it nothing i said oh okay and this is this is a trend of me not being protected right okay did you actually think she was gonna protect you considering that she had never given you the proper recognition the proper identification she'd never given you the proper shouldn't have but i did okay i shouldn't have but i did because i always expect and this is also a flaw but i always hope for the best in people because shannon you hoping people what you have what you do yourself we talked about this earlier we got to stop that know. But it feels so defeated to do it. But it's true. But it feels like you're giving into the it just feels like you're giving into the worst parts of existence to do it.

That's what it feels like. It feels very nihilistic to just really give in. But it is the only way that you can really protect yourself. And my, my cohost Supreme on my radio show, always, he'd be like, Amanda, most people are full of shit.

If you would just accept this, you would have such less heartache. And I'm like, I know, but so you want them to not be. So now, okay. So now she didn't do nothing yeah well she didn't do anything you feeling some type of way too now I can see it I see it right now well um what most people think is feeling some type of way for me is actually just me being hurt it's really it's just it just reads because of the type of human I am and the way that my self is set up. It reads as anger,

but it really is deep hurt. That's what you're reading. And I am betrayal. And I'm giving so much of myself to this. And to your point, ain't shit been right up to this point. So it is a straw on a camel. You know?

So I'm like, okay. I'm out! Now, I call the music director. Like, yo, this shit just got ridiculous. He's like, yo, I'm about to come to your room. Let's talk. I'm like, okay. This nigga never comes to the room.

I come downstairs. He's talking to a white chick at the bar. I'm like, God! The one that you used to... I thought he came up there just for one last foray that's what i was thinking because that would have made sense yeah for sure the pain away you know but no so i then called my home girl to take me to the airport okay so i call my mom and i'm like book me a ticket i'm out of here i'm out of here because i've reached my wits end and again I have no allies here I had a manager

who was none of the above okay this nigga sent me on the road with no contract talking about well you should just be happy they asked you what so I want you to follow the themes in this interview

I want you to follow two themes misunderstood and not protected I want you to follow two themes misunderstood and not protected i want you to follow those themes okay because you've noticed these themes you follow the theme of racism but i want you to follow those other themes because they're important they're important to understanding someone like me and when you have not been protected and you are misunderstood what are you going to naturally develop defense mechanism for sure you hard you have to protect yourself yes there's no other way no they will tear you up they will eat you alive right and if you're if you're creating these things also within the context of autism within the context of already speaking a certain way thinking a certain way

you are setting yourself up for a very hard road. But you're not even the one setting yourself up. I take that back. You are set up for a hard road. In the midst of all of this, though, you are brilliant. You have talent. And you are in a field that that's the only way that those things really work in. You know, it's not like I can go be the theatrical seals

like at the hospital you feel me like this is where I have to be so so I was about to leave I was about to leave and um the drummer who we used to we used to clash because we both had these like really big personalities that we hadn't matured into yet you know um he hit me and he said you can't leave you cannot leave because if you leave they'll win and they want you to leave and you cannot let them win and he said because later in life you will look back on this and you will say, I stayed and I was strong and it's going to matter. It's going to matter. And he was right. And so that night, um, I ended up saying, I came back and we had a show that night and we had a conversation before the show and, you know, the 48 laws of power, it can be used in a very duplicitous fashion, but sometimes it is useful when you're dealing with folks that just can't see you because of their own blind spots. And I'm a very, very emotionally intelligent person. And so a lot of times I end up having to do the emotional labor for other people to get us through.

Right. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. get us through. Right. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. Can I ask you this? In your life, how many people do you feel

that have protected you and understood you? Like you want a number? Yeah. Because you say it on one hand. Wow. I mean, at this point i've i've i've amassed an incredible amount and it's been a beautiful evolution okay um but up until that yeah in my youth i mean my mom that was your rock and

you know it's like it's just there's different processes right like i will say like my gymnastics coach you speak very high you know what you speak very highly of your gymnastics coach and there are a couple of teachers at john phillips high school dr phillips dr phillips high school that you speak in glowing terms about and then when you speak of them you radiate you don't speak you don't radiate when you mention anybody else's name but when you mention those people's names your mother your gymnastics coach the people that the uh the instructor that dr phillips high school you radiate what was it about them that caused them to not only understand amanda but was willing to protect amanda your mom i get that's your mom she's supposed to because they because they they

they saw what some people consider as flaws they saw as strengths you know i remember when i started going to therapy i started going to therapy because I was like, you know, people keep telling me that no one likes me. And I do not understand. Did you believe it? That no one likes me? Yeah. Yeah. Because I had low self-esteem.

Okay. So I'm just like, I don't, I don't, but I don't understand. And she, I remember her asking me, well, what are the reasons why people say they don't like you? And I told her, I said, my tone.

Um, I'm, they feel that I'm, uh, like too detail oriented. Like it's annoying. Um, you know,

they tell me like, like they, like me being detail oriented, they take it as nitpicky. Right. Um, you know, they tell me like, like they, like me being detail oriented, they take it as nitpicky. Right. Um, that I am too demanding. Whereas like for me, it's like, well, no, it's like, it's more so just me holding you accountable. Um, they say that I am mean, but in my version of it, it's like no i'm just being honest and so we started working on

me being better at understanding like the neurotypical like the normal way that things are read so that i could better protect myself like that may be the truth but you don't got to tell it right now you know it and good for you right hold that right hold that you don't gotta tell it right now um it may have been a yes or no question but people need extra words i lost the job because i was answering yes or no questions how'd you lose a job if you answer yes or no because you added because Because they were emailing me. Yeah. Asking me yes or no questions.

Okay. And my responses were yes. Yes. And? No. And then finally I got an email that said, you know what? We decided to go with somebody else because by your responses, it seems like you're not interested. Well, you say answer yes or no.

So now you understand me. It took us a little bit but you hear so i'm so they want you to say yes i would love to have the job because i think this is an amazing opportunity for me and i just love this company i think you but get out there and dance nigga but amanda and black people do it to each other amanda we had the conversation up earlier and what did we say if you understand the rules no i didn't understand the rules i'm just talking then i didn't understand the rules i didn't understand the rules so i was saying that the therapy helped you yes but even still it's like understanding the rules and like you know then you are who you are like that ends up being in conflict with each

other so often you know i'm saying like you understand the rules but you're like in order for me to to like play this game i gotta like do a whole renovation of self that's not going to be an upgrade it's just me really just trying to mask to become palatable to you. But don't you think realistically, there are a lot more people that dress in Halloween costumes year round as opposed to just on that day? I do not want to be those people.

And those are not the people that changed the world. And that's what I'm here to do. And I literally went and got my master's because Rich Bova on the campus of Purchase College stopped me and held my hand because he was a psychic. He would always do readings for people. And he just held my hand and was like, well, you got to go get your master's. And I was like, God, I thought I was done with this. And he was like, no, you got to go get your master's because you're going to change the world and you're going to need it to do it.

You believe in psychics? I believe in a lot. Oh, my goodness. How can you not believe in psychics and believe in God? No, no. No, no psychic. What do you... Wait, let's take a moment. No, we're not...

No, no, no. Let's take a moment. Let's take a moment. Let's take a moment. Yes. If you believe in God, then you believe in a spiritual power that is greater than all of us.

You also believe that there are people who are able to access that in ways that others cannot. Do you not? That's what our pastors do. That's what people who are Catholics believe priests are doing. And for all intents and purposes, when we pray, we are attempting to contact that power. We are attempting to just let me finish. We are attempting to tap in to that power, to tap into that energy and bring it to us as we are continuing to bring it to them. Now, when we vilify the idea of psychics or witches, et cetera, a lot of times what's mixed into that is shit that ain't got nothing to do with actual connection to spirit.

There are people who are operating in dark spaces and dark places, but there are people who are operating in dark spaces and dark places but there are people who are tapped in that just have different names and so the idea of a psychic like i'm not calling him a psychic medium a medium or somebody who is literally just more connected i am very connected to like i'm empathic i can feel i'm very connected to just nature, to the vibration of things because I want to be, but also because I'm an artist, right? Like I can make something from nothing. Like there's something that is really unique in that ability to do so. So when I'm talking about someone who is able to read you, it's not like there are, it's not that they're dealing with dark magic. It's that they are able to see their profits.

So it's just language. But as long as it's done in love, it's all coming from the same place. Pastor seems to have been accessing people's bank accounts a lot lately. That is very true. And that is why we have to always be careful about who is at the pulpit. One of your first jobs in New York was a radio host. How'd you get into...

You know what? I feel like I didn't finish that previous story. Go ahead, tell it for you. Tell it. Oh, Floetry. Yes. Let me finish it.

Okay, tell it. Because I thought you was done with... Because, well, no, I just feel like it's important to note that with the 48 laws of power, I realized in that moment, oh, I have to win the... I have to let her win the battle to win the war.

OK. And my ego has to be removed in order to do that. And that's something I had to learn in that moment. Like ego is not serving you here. And I really don't have an ego in that way. Like I can really often see like there's a bigger picture here. And so I had to let her know that i was not a threat to her and i realized that for some reason she was like seeing treating me that way right i don't know if that was her so you actually had a conversation with her right before the show and i had to tell her like i just want you to like me i just want you to feel safe with me here i just want you to see me as someone who is not trying to step on your toes because that's what it feels like and if that's not what it is so be it but if that's what it is i just want you to see me as someone who is not trying to step on your toes because that's what it feels like.

And if that's not what it is, so be it. But if that's what it is, I just want you to know that that's not what I'm trying to do. So I had to make myself small so that she could not feel like I was trying to take her place. And after that, we had no problems. I don't know that, Amanda. You don't know much, Amanda. I mean, the matter that made herself shrink down. I mean, it went down to honey. I shrunk the kid, baby. I know what to do. That's the part that people don't understand is that I it's not even that you necessarily are shrinking.

It's that you understand. It's like if you're on a field and you know that in this play I'm not the star. Yes. In this play, all I need to do is block this so that this ball can get to this point. Yes. That's the point.

And I am that person. I know what role I'm playing on the field. Yes. You can be good at any game if you understand the rules. There you go from my hour ago Don't talk to me like that. Yeah, no, can I call you my sister? Can I call you my son to dab it up no, come on you you I What you're saying is not accurate to the situation yes it is no because the game we're

talking about two different games no in that moment you realize you i'm not arguing that point i'm not arguing that point you were saying that it's easier if you understand the game and all i was saying was that i don't know that it's easier but it definitely is important because it wasn't necessarily easy let me tell you okay but it was necessary and i didn't and if i'm if i'm being honest i don't know that i will call it the game as much as i will call i mean i use that as a metaphor but it's like you could use that example in a in an operating room like if you're the nurse you're not with the scalpel but you are important and you know your role in this situation and that is fine it's the lieutenant and the and the captain right

like you just have to understand that and when you do your ego doesn't matter because you your ego is not based on being at the top your ego is based on not your ego is based on being useful yes and that that really is what i feel like a lot of people in this society are not realizing we have this main character energy that a lot of people are just really built into and it's like everybody needs to feel like they are the star they're at the top their name is on the etc and there's so many other ways to be of value and a lot of people are not cut for being the leader they not cut for being the star and they in these positions and they don't know how to act and they're actually really being you stay on the tour you work at the uh you and uh

marcia marcia y'all hash out your diff you hash them out or you just y'all make peace to get through the tour no after that it was fine because i had i let her know that i wasn't a threat to her so then it's not a problem how would you it was her it was her show right so how child i can't you know all i can do is my best so you did end up leaving the show no i did the whole tour you did the whole tour did the whole tour and then after we were going to be a group called floor tree remix and so um her manager kept playing around with my manager around it and then she had me make a myspace page for us and then she didn't accept the friend request and that was the end of it and then i just did my own music and i put out my album, Life Experience.

Have you talked to her since? I actually saw her at Usher's show recently. And she went to hug me and I was like, no, I'm good. Come on, you didn't do that. Come on. Now, don't be petty, LaBelle. How is that petty? God, she was. Really really after all them years yeah after all them years what am i hugging her for that's not my people's

i don't first of all i'm not a hugger in general but that's not yeah see i'm not petty i'm not phony i'm not gonna hug people that are not my people if you treat me like shit in real life don't try to hug me at a party when you because i won't hug you back it's a people if you treat me like shit in real life don't try to hug me at a party because i won't hug you back it's a song if you treat me like shit in real life don't try to hug me at a party because i won't hug you back that's not a song you made it but here's the thing i can't believe you i can't believe you would do that that was that was i am who i am people I am. And that's a beautiful thing. The person I am is beautiful because you don't never have to guess. People like me are a blessing. You don't ever have to guess. And so much of this life is people not wanting to deal with the real and just hiding in the shadows.

And instead of honoring honor is a strong word. But instead of, you know, regarding and respecting people who are straight ahead, we treat them like they are a nuisance. We treat them like they are a disruption when really they are a gift because it really removes the guesswork of subtext. It removes the guesswork of ulterior motives. I am what I am. What you see is what you get. Whatever you hear me saying is what I'm saying. And to me, that is such an easier route, you know, and I've found people in my life over

time that really see that that is such a dope way to exist. And it's been a blessing. So when you asked me earlier about like people who have protected me and like people who understand me, like it's those people, people who see that as a gift, not as an attack. Have you ever hugged anybody that you didn't like or shake shook their hands? I mean, I'm sure I did when I was less sure of myself and when I felt like I needed to play the game. You know, I've had I had game you know I've had an I had you know I've had self-esteem and inferior to complex issues for a long time and I've had to learn how to love myself as who I am and be okay with that and also understand the repercussions of that okay it's okay we can move on now we we good we go with Marsha this concludes the first half of my

conversation part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just Now we go with Marsha. This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted, and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just simply go back to Club Che Che profile, and I'll see you there. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone.

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