Club Shay Shay - Amanda Seales Part 2

Episode Date: April 24, 2024

Amanda Seales and Shannon Sharpe continue to engage in a candid and thought-provoking dialogue that touches on a myriad of topics, from navigating the highs and lows of the entertainment industry to the complexities of personal relationships. Amanda recounts how she got her start in radio as a result of her poetry, having her first interview while working for Sirius be of OutKast, and how industry politics involving Jay-Z and Pusha T ultimately got her fired from Sirius. Continuing on the subject of industry politics, Amanda shares the time she was kicked out of the Black Emmy’s party because Issa Rae’s publicist wanted her gone, which led to a scuffle and confusion. Amanda goes further into the tumultuous relationship she’s had with Issa Rae’s publicist over the years and how it’s spilled over into her work on Insecure, which created a work environment that ultimately has led Amanda to disagree with Lil Rel’s opinion that Issa creates environments that empower women. Amanda also touches on other sets and productions like Bring the Funny, The Real, hosting the BET Awards during COVID, and working with Kevin Hart. Amanda also discusses Queen Latifah coming to her defense, Candace Owens, Emmanuel Acho’s comments about Angel Reese, and how her expectations for dating differ drastically from Shannon’s. This second portion of the interview is a testament to Amanda's unwavering courage and resilience, as well as her commitment to speaking truth to power in pursuit of justice and authenticity. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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They try to save everybody. Listen to Spiraled on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway. I want to talk about the radio. I want to talk about you. Because you, at the intro, you've done a lot of things yes your your resume is extensive no seriously no no no no no bull

job no real talk and i don't know if you really know or maybe people haven't told you maybe you just and we're all wired like this we kind of hear more here the negativity than the positive because being an ex-professional athlete the losses haunt me more than the wins right i remember a loss way more than i'm doesn't that suck it's like so irritating that our brains are wired that way it's like how well this is not helpful yeah the parades don't bring me the joy that the hurt and the losses i feel you so your first job and one of the first jobs you had were you a radio host did you how did you get into radio um i was a spoken word poet okay so i did like deaf poetry jam when i was in college and um i would do slams and you know all of that and i ended up performing at a jesse jackson rainbow push benefit and i just remember

it being like pouring rain and i still was like no i'm gonna rainbow push to get there right and there was a brother there uh Ken Spellman who gave me his card and was like you know we should talk about you doing radio but like listen brothers give you your car give you a card you think it's so you'd be like I so I went back to purchase and the car was sitting on my desk and um I hadn't called him it was like a week and my homegirl was sitting at my desk because she was like using my computer and she was looking at the car she was like oh wow this office is at Rockefeller Center and I was like whose office is at Rockefeller Center she was like the the card that you have on your desk from who's this car from and I was like oh that's that's the guy I met at the um at the rate at the the benefit she was like I think this is legit I was like huh and I looked at I was like

oh shit I didn't even realize this I thought it was like homeboy LLC so I called him and he was like I'd love for you to come to the radio and like you know I want to interview you as a poet etc I didn't realize that when I went to the radio and he was interviewing me about poetry he was actually interviewing me for the job so i ended up getting a job as a radio host at sirius and i was hosting like these two stations that were kind of like just esoteric and all over the place and eclectic and then i graduated so that was in March of 2020. Oh, no, baby. That was in March of 2003. Because I started it serious in 2004. I did radio for serious. OK, so I started there in 2003 and then nine months later. So I've graduated now. I'm sitting in. Actually, no.

These two guys that were on the hip hop station, they were standing in their boss's office, but the office had two sections, and they were in the front section. I had just peeked my head in to say hi. And they're like, oh, what's up? And they had the Outkast album in front of them. Speakerbox Love Below was in front of them. And I was like, oh, man, I love that album.

And they were like, yeah, we're supposed to interview them later today. We're really excited, but we really don't know a lot about Outkast. So I start going in, because I'm an a lot about outcast so i start going in because i'm an outcast fan right so i start going in and while we're talking their boss who's on the other side of the court of the cubicle gets a call that they have to move the interview to the next day so he's like hey guys they got to move the interview to tomorrow and they're like oh shit we can't do it we won't even be in town and he's like well and he like knew of me because i was on this i was Sirius he was like hey um you sound like you know a lot about Outkast do you want to do the interview yes so that was my first interview my very first interview was with Outkast wow and

yeah like I love me some Outkast and then and so then I was that serious for a few years and yeah I don't want to tell another negative story so no then I wasn't that serious right what happened how do you I mean you you're a magician because you magically appear at a job and then you just disappear what other version of that is there i'm just saying that's actually the only job i got fired from this is the only job how you get how you get fired so my boss was this brother who's who i will not even honor by naming him okay um he had a little ass chain and a high booty. Okay.

And he had a poster of Condoleezza Rice. And he would send us memos with intros from different generals. Like there would be like a memo with like a paragraph from General McCarthy

and Norman Schwarzkopf. I'm like, this is hip-hop, nigga. What are we, why am I being, why am I having to deal with this? And he came into my studio. Well, the first time we ever met,

I went to dap him and he said, keep it corporate. Whoa. So that was our very first interaction. I went to, and he said, keep it corporate. I said, okay.

Yee. Remember, I'm 21. Right. Okay. Then a week later he came into my studio and he says, so, you know, I just wanted you to know that I know that you're spoiled and I'm going to expose you. Huh? And I'm 21 and I'm going to expose you. Huh?

And I'm 21. And I'm in New York. Right? Yeah. So my instinct, my instinctual response to that is I have to prove him wrong. And my way to prove him wrong is I have to pull him in. You know, I have to show him. No.

Like, Amanda. Like, I'm not spoiled. I've worked really hard for all of this shit. Like, get out of here. So I spent the next two years really doing my best to make shorty swing my way, so to speak. Not in a romantic way, but in a professional way. So I'm showing up early. I'm staying late.

You know, I'm doing all the interviews um everybody knew me as as serious because i am a true full-fledged hip-hop head you know what i'm saying so they knew that when they brought their artists there like it's gonna be a real interview it's not just gonna be some can that they get everywhere else so i got really cool with the radio um execs etc so you know and then at one point in time. So once I went on tour with Floetry, he flipped. He flipped because he wanted to be a star. And I was I was like in his mind, I guess, getting stardom. So once I went on tour with Floetry, I was like, oh, I could be I could record on tour. And he just was not let it happen.

Once I came back from the Floetry tour, it was never cool again. Right. Never cool again. back from the floozy tour it was never cool again right never cool again and he started doing weird stuff like lying about people coming to the show you know to the station and so i remember at the time i was seeing lupe and um lupe hit me and was like uh why am i coming to the radio station i'm not going to interview with you and you know he don't know that so now i'm like why is lupe fiasco coming to the radio station but he's not interviewing with me he's like well how did you even know he was coming you don't need to know how i know that the question is why are you yeah like why are you keeping me out he said you needed to give other people a chance

mind you i'm not stopping anybody else right. But if they want to interview with you, they want to interview with you. But also the way Sirius is set up, as you know, they're going to interview with a myriad of people. So I am not in any way You're not the only one they're interviewing with. He's just trying to keep them from interviewing with me.

I remember Hove came and he was just sitting in the lobby and i had come into work and i was like what are you doing you just in here he was like yeah i was like you want to interview real quick i got a studio he's like yeah no problem so we go to the interview they tried to fire me because they said i interviewed jay-z without clearance now you know they should have been applauding you and it was pre-recorded so like if you didn't want to use the interview you didn't have to use the interview but they tried to say that i was like

stepping outside of you know the the protocol but it aired on their station it wasn't like you you aired it somewhere like it was like i got this interview i going to put it on my IG page. I'll put it on my Facebook page. It aired on there. So. So there's a book called The Gifted Adult. Yeah. And in this book, within the first two pages, they give two examples of adults who are gifted and it shows up in their overachievement. It shows up in their type A, you know, assessment of personality. Right. It shows up in their um type a you know assessment of personality right it shows up in their ability

to show up and this becomes a problem at their jobs because people start to feel like they're outworking them people start to feel like they're outdoing them right and then it becomes you think you're better than me yes so this is the dynamic I have experienced in many places. So whereas you said, oh, they should be applauding you. I texted Hove on my T-Mobile sidekick because that was the time. And that just lets you know how old we are. And I was like, hey, they're trying to fire me for interviewing you. And he said verbatim what you said he said

well not verbatim but he said they should be promoting you but notice who are the overachievers in this conversation see how all the overachievers had the same response right no i'm in the way i'm in a way i'm doing too much and i'm a girl i'm a woman I'm doing too much shut the f*** up okay that's what they think that's what a lot of the energy is a lot of the energy is shut up and even if you won't let me f*** at least make me

think I got a chance just let me think I remember Green Lantern telling me you know what your reputation is that you are hard to f*** over and even harder to f*** and I was like my mother I'm sure is very proud but that was so you know as serious I um so what ended up happening was I went to um HR and shared with them this is before I knew that HR see the game that you be talking about that i didn't know that the hr ain't for you it's for them

so i went to hr like oh listen i'm having trouble with my superior you know he's not very kind and i'm thinking that they gonna set me up to like a solution baby they, from now on, you will not speak to him. You will speak to this other person who will relate to him. Wow. So I'm like, I mean, that's not like a solution, but I guess, you know. So now I do this for a year. I do this for a year. Now I'm dating Pusha T. As you can see, the rappers I've dated are very great MCs

because I have high quality. High quality. You be dry. You got to... That was two. Let me say, I mean, I don't, you know, I mean, I'm glad

you shared that information, but... Well, I think it's, I think it's valid in Shout Out to Virginia, his beautiful wife and their beautiful son. Right.

Because we grow up. Yeah. You know, we grow up and I think it's important that we acknowledge that people have like full lifespans yeah people have passed people have dated other people that that people might know you know and i just feel like if i'm who came before you you know i'm a good i'm a good i'm a good track record like hey so i remember i got invited to the MTV Music Awards.

Right. By Push's manager. They were like, we're going to be out here. Let us know if you want to come. Now you, if you have someone who's on radio and they have a hip hop show and they can go to the MTV Music Awards, wouldn't you say head on out there, bring a DAP machine and a mic, see how many interviews you can get. So I tell the person that I have to talk to to talk to the boss, I want to go. Can we find someone to cover my shift? He says yes.

He finds someone to cover my shift. He says your shift is covered. You can go. I head out there while i'm out there i get a call i get a call from my boss saying um you going to the mtv music awards is a example of um severe insubordination and so we will be terminating your contract i said but i followed the protocol Got someone to cover my shield. I spoke to this other person. He said, well, you were supposed to speak to me.

Well, not according to human resource. LOL. The person in the back would say, yeah. So I said, well, not according to human resources. He said, well, according to me. So I then went back to. You didn't get no interviews? At least get the interviews and keep them for yourself i didn't even have i didn't get the i didn't even have a doubt machine oh okay okay um

but i went back to new york and they fired me and then i went on myspace and i said you know i did like an announcement like you know you won't be able to hear my show anymore i'm really it's really unfortunate that my boss you know who is a black man just didn't feel like it was his necessary like it wasn't necessary for him to protect me in this situation but nonetheless it is what it is and I hope that I can create other ways you know to reach y'all he saw that post used it um and had me banned from Sirius for seven years he said that that post was an indication of my like wanting to come back and like harm him. That little chain high booty. Get you every time.

Get you every time. But you know what? That situation speaks to a number of situations where people hold them. People holding me to a standard they don't hold them so it was like i'm gonna treat you any old way and you're just gonna take you just need to take it you just need to accept it and i don't know when this happened shannon but even within the zeitgeist now it's like i am expected to just take whatever is given to me and shut the fuck up and i will not i don't understand that.

No matter what jobs I've had. If I speak on it. It becomes she's complaining. It's like well I'm expressing my experience. And if you haven't noticed. Remember I told you. I'm just giving you. This happened.

Then this happened. Then this happened. I'm not speaking to what they thought. I'm not speaking to how they made me feel. I'm just telling you. These are the series of events. And you can judge for yourself. But ultimately, this idea that like I am somehow not allowed to have struggle, like I'm not allowed to have a bad experience without there being this doubt painted on me.

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out until i got kicked out that emmy's party what'd you do to get kicked out the Emmy's party? Damn. We can't take you nowhere. What'd you do? I go to a lot of places because I'm lovable and people like me and I'm delightful. I am delightful. What did you do? I arrived.

Okay, you arrived. Okay, you're inside. No. So here's how it went. arrived okay you're inside no so here's how it went so because hollywood is just so inundated with whiteness there was this conglomeration of folks that came together to say you know what we're gonna have a black emmy's party because you know have you been to the emmy's parties i've never been to emmy's so like they're just you know they're just very blah like it's just a bunch of people sitting around like am i right yeah am i right oh my god kirsten kirsten kirsten like that's the vibe yeah um but

you know when we party we want to have a little bit more fun to it you know call d nice um so what up derrick so the in 2018 was the first one where they had a black emmys party. So basically it's like everybody who'd been to all them other parties Come in this one. Yes And I went to that party with jill scott And one of the people that planned that party was isa ray's publicist. Um, vanessa anderson So she was one of the planners of the party, but there's a bunch of people Involved in planning this party. Correct. So I show up with jill and um jill's manager was like hey you know can we and i remember hearing vanessa go like oh come on amanda mind you i'm like i don't know what

i'm doing wrong right here like i'm just standing with jill scott uh but nonetheless we came to the party we had a great time so but and i said to isa like i don't know what's going on with your publicist but like she she got something wrong she had a problem with me and she was like that's between y'all okay and i said well it's not really between y'all because i don't know what's going on with your publicist but like she she got something wrong she had a problem with me and she was like that's between y'all okay i said well it's not really between y'all because i don't have a problem with her right but she seems to have a problem with me and she was like that's none of my business okay okay so now next year is 2019 and it was interesting because in 2018 it was packed like a dick in front of that place in 2019 there was like nobody there but i was at the hbo party and every black person i saw i would tell them make sure you go to the black enemies party because i am about creating community and i want us to be together right

so i pull up with my homegirl kathia and kendrick samson who's on insecure you know the show where i don't have any friends yeah um so i pull up with kendrick sampson so we get to the door and i learned later that she just is white passing but this is a mexican girl but like she looked like a white girl okay so she at the at the door for the for the emmy's what kind of party emmy's black party there you go so she tells us you can go in you can go and you can't go in now i think she's talking to my friend because my friend is a realtor right um and she says no you can't go in and i said well why can't i go in she says you're just on the list to not be able to go in now i had also been invited to this party directly by jesse williams

right so jesse williams had texted me and said please come to the black emmys party right okay so i'm like all right i'm gonna come i'm gonna come to the black emmys party yeah of course like that's what i am about so i come to the party and i'm like okay uh to the party and i'm like okay uh why am i not being let in hmm kendrick says i'm gonna go look i'm gonna go look around and see why you're not being let in well baby i'm not standing outside no party right so i head out but then i'm stopped by just by this brother joey harris who works with janet jackson joey's like and joey's like one of these people who's just always he's his disposition is just always like glowing it's kind of like jordan right so he's like um where are you going i'm like oh they said they won't let me in the party he's like absolutely not come on back we gonna get you in this party okay so we come back and so this is

an example of someone trying to protect and look out. Right. So he brings me back and he's like, why are you not letting her in the party? By the way, at this time, I'm hosting Bring the Funny on NBC. Right. There is a billboard the size of a hotel two blocks away with me and my co-stars on the show. Chrissy Teigen, Jeff Foxworthy and Kenan Thompson. And can I just put a pin in this really quick to give them their props I had a real hard time on Insecure and I'll get to that but being on this show was so affirming because everyone there was so just happy to be happy and I hadn't experienced that on that set like from the showrunner to the writers to my my stage manager Roger to my co-stars like I just got to be myself

and it really let me know it's not you it's the environment and I don't get to talk enough about like the positive shit because people are always so attracted to the negative but I remember day one Chrissy Teigen we had to do rehearsals for the first day and they had me in these stilettos Shannon oh my god like I would have had to go in the work room yes the feet were crying and it was I had an injury from these fucking stilettos and the next day Chrissy Teigen brought a foot massage from um Sharper Image and left it in my dressing room for the duration of the shoot like that's the kind of people you know just generous for no reason right and we just had a blast we had such a good time I remember Jeff Foxworthy

one time they wanted us to do this ad where we had to pass around a drink and I don't drink so it's like I don't mind drinks being around but like me pretending like I drink ain't my job right so I was like I just don't feel comfortable doing this now it becomes a thing this is how I get labeled difficult because I didn't get we didn't get any prep for this but you need to go along with whatever they give you didn't you know that whatever they give you you supposed to do no well when you're a woman it's even more shh quit stirring up trouble so Jeff Foxworthy saw shit going left and he stepped in and he said yeah I don't feel comfortable with it either wow he used his fame his white man You know, he used his disposition to just take the heat off me. He said, I got you.

To this day, I really want to do a show with Jeff Foxworthy where we just, like, fish and talk shit. Like, that's a goal I want to do. Let me know if you want to produce it. You ever been fishing? I've been present while someone is fishing, but I have not been given my rod. So you hadn't had a rod or a pole in your hand? But I have dated men from the South. I have been present and had crappy cooked for me yes oh

okay so yes so i think you'd be more of a shore fisherman you know on the land can't be in the boat i'm generally yeah yeah but i'm saying we go we go oh yeah we go baby step it's harder in the boat than on the land yeah probably so really because you're not as not as now i just thought because i thought there were more fish in the center they're more fish yeah but when they go way out there they're they're normally fishing for a particular type of fish like when you're when you're on the shore you fish for anything to bite catfish crappie you know perch bass but normally when you go out you fish for you know maybe you're trying to catch tuna you caught branzino something like that tuna snapper yes okay i'm into it you

know about fish you just never actually had a rod in your hand and like brought it in so i am um i hyper fixate so i know a lot about a lot of things because i become immersed yes so like i'm a scuba diver so i know a lot about fish and then at one point it was like i'm gonna learn everything i know about dogs and now i'm gonna learn everything i need to know about game of thrones i'm gonna learn everything i need to know about you know uh ncw football like, like, but I do know a lot about fish. So you say you know, because I'm in the middle of a story and sometimes I veer off, but I always come back because I want to make sure we get to your insecure role. So I just wanted to shout that out because Bring the Funny was a beautiful experience and was super, super, super, super, super dope.

So when we're here and joey harris is trying to get me in this party the white girl says again um well the white passing girl says again yeah no she can't come to the party so joey's like make him inside and figure out what's going on again i'm not about to stand out here right so i start to walk away again and now elijah kelly comes out he's like hey hey hey where are you going i said they they're not trying to let me in this party that i was invited to right by jesse williams um you attempt to call jesse did i attempt to call jesse i texted him okay um but he's in a party right you know so i texted him. Okay. But he's in a party. Right. You know, so I texted him. So then Elijah is like, well, I'm one of the planners of the party.

So they can't stop you. They can't stop me from bringing you in. Right. So he starts to bring me in and homegirl grabs my arm. But I remember when I told you I've been a New Yorker since I was 12. Uh-oh. Shake that off. Yeah.

Lose me. Yeah. Crazy. So we go in the party and I go and was 12. Shake that off. Lose me. Yeah, crazy. So we go in the party and I go and sit down. No, sorry. I go in the party. I go by the bar. My homegirl goes to the bathroom.

I'm standing by the bar and a security guard approaches me. A security guard your size approaches me and says, hey, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. And I said, well, why do I need to leave. And I said, well, why do I need to leave? And he said, because you're being asked to leave.

I said, well, who's asking me to leave? He said, well, let me go find out. Well, I mean, you came and say they're asking you to leave and you don't know who's asking me to leave. You got to go find out. He was given an order. Yeah. you don't know who's asking me to leave you got to go find out he was given an order yeah so now he comes back and uh he says vanessa anderson is asking you to leave i said we need to find

vanessa and have her come tell me herself is that isa race publicist yes i said well you need to have vanessa come and find me and tell me herself so he then leaves again and comes back with three other men and one of the men now is a brother and he's walking towards me cursing so he's literally walking towards me saying you need to get the out of here you need to leave and i'm like mind you i'm i'm dressed down honey okay and he's like you need to leave now kathia was in the bathroom she's now just come up and i'm looking around and i can see people seeing right so i'm like why do i have to leave because we said so so there's like violent energy and language coming towards you right um i ain't no sucker okay and but I'm also not stupid.

I can't fight for men. So like, I mean, so I, the, the first one who was kind, he had come up right here, but then the other three were right here.

So I have to realize I've lost this fight. So I pivot to leave, but I pivot really fast. Cause I'm a still fight so I pivot to leave but I pivot really fast because I'm gonna still say my mother piece so when I pivot and I say I pivot to go you I guess they thought I was about to do something so the white guy steps in between me and the two the and the brother and chest bumps me and throws me back right so now this is an assault because i hadn't raised my hand to do anything to anybody so luckily i'm nimble in a heel so i but now it's like you know now i've been assaulted so your natural response so i'm about to go super saiyan on these motherfuckers goku

over here i'm like ah and i hear in one ear i hear the security guard saying please amanda don't do it and it feels like please miss silly don't do it don't be like me miss silly don't be like miss sophia and then in the other ear i have my home girl who's from the bronx like what the fuck is going on this is some bullshit and all I'm hearing is beep but I look around and I see nobody coming to my aid all these agents and people that I see around now if none of them are insecure none of them are the actors from insecure um but there's people whose faces I still remember and they will not get a hug in a party either I just refused somebody a hug the other day for this um and i realized like you you gotta go so we walk outside and the security guard says to me you know i'm so sorry like i'm just doing my job and i said i i feel you but you

have to ask yourself is it worth doing a job that makes you go against your moral compass and he was like dang so i hope he left that job because he could tell that he was in some he was mixed up in some bull so we're in a back alley like waiting for a car and I'm crying because this feels like you know I've been humiliated and I didn't do nothing and that was the night that me and my homegirl became super like that became my sister because she was like when you would tell me that she would happen to you I would think she must be keeping something out right but I literally just watched you do nothing you literally just came somewhere you were invited right and even though you tried to leave multiple people said no you belong here multiple people another person on this team said you belong here

so i'm bringing you in here and then when i tell the story on my instagram and on my my podcast it ends up getting turned into this whole other thing of you don't belong here amanda seals doesn't belong here and that's the thing that's's a narrative that has come about. Like, I don't perpetuate. Yes. I don't belong in these places. And what ended up happening two days later is that I got a call from Issa. And she called me and said, hey, I heard what happened this weekend. I just want you to know I have nothing to do with it.

Would you be willing to talk to Vanessa? No, I tried to talk to Vanessa at the party. She two days too late. So I've never talked about this publicly because it has always been incredibly important to me to protect Issa. Because I know that Issa is doing something within this business that so few people get to do. And it's not something I desire to do. Like I'm not interested in getting a hundred million dollar

production deal. Like that's not a life that I want for myself, but I know that her role is very important. And so I've always protected Issa. However, there's just been enough instances at this point where I should have been protected by Issa and I wasn't. And one of my biggest problems that we have discussed several times in this interview is that I think people are gonna show up for me the way I show up for them. And now it's at a point where my protecting of Issa has become turned onto me and something that people

are using against me. There's a whole narrative that is completely false that people keep spinning. They keep saying that I'm this mean girl on this set, that I harmed these people on this set. I just want to point out something very basic. How can I be a mean girl on a set that ain't my set? How? It's your show. You are my boss. I don't even have the capacity to be the mean girl here because you can fire me. So there's no way for me to be a mean girl in this situation. And I know some people that may buck up against like

the confirmation bias that they've created, but it simply is the truth. You know, when I got to that show, I had had a show on Issa's website on YouTube. I had my show, Get Your Life. And when it came out on her YouTube, unfortunately, the press picked it up as Issa Rae's new show. But she didn't do anything except put it on her site. I put all my money into it. I wrote it. I starred in it, etc. And so I said,

hey, would you mind tweeting to correct this? And she just wouldn't. She wouldn't promote any of the shows you know and i just felt like that was unfortunate but it didn't make me it didn't change my my view of her character like it just let me know like okay this how she do business but in that time her publicist was interacting with me and was from just day one just so acerbic like just vitrolic for no reason,

to the point where Issa's business manager had to say to the publicist, like, can you please try and be kinder to Amanda? She's like a talent on our channel. And you have no reason. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed

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to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Why she would treat you, behave... So, Issa says, would you talk to Vanessa? No. I say, sure. Treat you behave So Isa says would you talk to Vanessa? No, I said sure. You know why why who's my boss?

Who's my boss in this situation, well, he says the boss and where do I have to go back to work insecure? So what's the game you talked about? You had to play the game to work insecure so what's the game you talked about you had to play the game but hold on but there was a situation earlier amanda well shit that ain't my business y'all need to handle that now she wants you to talk to her you're good at math you good at math shopped shannon shopped i'm just i'm just saying because you like... You can't spell Sharpton without Sharped now. So, okay, you have... So I take the call. You should have said, I want to meet face to face.

I want to look at one. I like to look at a person. My feelings were hurt. My feelings were hurt. I just got assaulted in a party for black people in Hollywood. And I've been in Hollywood longer than majority for black people in hollywood and i've been in hollywood longer than majority of the people in this fucking party right my feelings are hurt okay you take the call hello hi amanda this is vanessa um i just want you to know that um so none of this has anything to do with isa that's the first thing she says none of this has anything to do with isa

so i just want you to know that but i do want you to understand that it was me who kicked you out the party. Okay. So, um, I just want you to know that the reason I kicked you out the party is because I don't like you. Okay. Well, that's all I need to know. There's nothing else for us to talk about. And I hang up. She calls me back immediately. Why'd you hang up? I said, because there's nothing else for us to talk about. She says, don't you want to know why I don't like you? No, not actually. Actually, I don't. No, I don't.

Because it's none of my business. I've never done anything to you. And for you to put me in harm's way off of literally nothing means that I don't need to talk to you about why you don't like me. You need to talk to your therapist about why you don't like me. And I hung up the phone. She called back. No, she called around. She starts a smear campaign oh so this whole time your boss and i don't like i i don't do the gossip thing so have you ever had a conversation with isa about this situation about her publicist you're saying since this situation at any point well i

mean i had that one time where i said to you yeah and she said well that y'all need to work that out that ain't got nothing to do with me so now after this conversation with the publicist and i and i get off the phone um i start getting word that she is going around to the different publications and different people because it starts coming back to me. And she's going around saying that I was in danger of getting fired from Insecure, which, honestly,

I don't even know if that was true or not, but that had never been brought to my attention. She starts going around saying that I got in a fight at the party. She starts going around saying that I peed on the floor

at the party. What starts going around saying that I peed on the floor at the party. What are you, a puppy? I mean, I got to move it to the side. Like, what are we talking about? So let me ask you this. So, well, I feel like I'm going to answer your question. Okay. So, Issa then calls me again and says,

hey, I just want to know if this is going to be a problem on set. Because now this is going on for two weeks. And this... Going viral... Earlier in the conversation, you were like, why do you care if people who don't know you are saying mean things about you? And it's like, I wish I had that. And I'm at a point in my life where i'm there but it's really up when the pylon happens and it has nothing to do with reality like i don't even mind

a pylon if it's something i really did right this situation i'm like how am i the villain in this situation well you shouldn't have gone to her party because it was her party well it's not just her party there's several people at the party it's not like i crashed her baby shower right um but also i'm looking at isa because it's like this is your responsibility we are both your employees and this is a part of leadership this is the important part of leadership and it's that's what makes leadership so annoying is you're going to manage people. Yes, you do. And personalities.

And it's a very difficult task. But it is par for the course. Yes. But that's why you got the hundred million or whatever you got is to manage your employees. So I said, you know, listen, I am not saying that it's going to be a problem on set, but I do think it is a problem that you don't feel that you need to step in. And she was like, well, then we just have a difference in opinion. Like, I just this is this is between y'all. This is between y'all.

Well, if it was between us, why did you intervene and say I need to connect that she wanted to call? I needed to talk to her. If you felt it was just between us because you interjected yourself into that. If it's between two people, I shouldn't have interference from someone else to say we need to get together. The two people, either she reaches out to me or I reach out to her. I don't need you to intervene. But you felt the need to intervene in that. But now you don't feel the intervene to go any further.

The intervention to go any further. Oh, sorry. So I'm also promoting my book. Right. So this hits me promoting my book. Right. So this hits me because now the press is canceling. So this is now affecting me professionally. And I didn't do shit. Right.

And I don't like you, in my opinion, is not a sufficient reason to sick for security guards on me and remove me from a black space. Right. Which also begs the question, what remove me from a black space right which also begs the question what the is a black space because we we we like to claim that they're safe spaces and you know that they're for us but at this point black spaces are literally it's just black faces right and that even is you know something to do with this pressure that i've been going through but to stay on course so now we have to go back to shooting uncomfortable I'm uncomfortable and I ain't even on set and nobody's saying nothing to me everybody knows because at this time it's just the women shooting everybody knows what's going

on they don't say nothing to me and that's just mean it's mean they don't say nothing to me and let me tell you from the beginning i've been trying with these ladies because i want to make community everywhere i go i didn't invite them to my house they didn't come i brought them gifts they said thanks i tried to plan a retreat they said we don't want to go you know know, I created our group chat for the show. I created game nights for the show. Nobody participated. I mean, eventually, but like... Reluctantly. But I'm trying to do this, you know,

because I think that this is... It's like when I walked in and I was like, I feel like it's my role to make you feel comfortable. Like, I feel like that's my way of getting around this thing, this stigma that people like to put on me that they've got to do with how I really exist. OK. And in this situation now, I'm publicly now being like excoriated. I'm publicly now being like excoriated you got this earthworm gym looking nigga sarunas out here talking about well you don't no one likes you so that's why you weren't invited what's hilarious about that is that we were only in two scenes together so this is not somebody that really knows me but you know what the other thing is shannon sharpton what happened this is a brother

who ended up having a child with someone on the show. And when he had the child, there was rumors that were going around that he was not claiming the child. And so these people had started talking about it. But the people that are talking about my people, I'm not involved in it, but I hear it because we on set. Right. And then he come around and it's like that. I don't like like that. It's not honest.

So even though that's not my boy, I pull him to the side. I say, Pete, people I hear are talking about you behind your back about this situation. Street's talking. And I said, listen, this is a small business. So at the end of the day, if you are this child's father, I think you should exclaim it to the rooftops. If you are not claim if you are and you don't want to claim this child, I would like for you to just consider rethinking that. Because as somebody with a father that did not show up for me, I really feel like she would really benefit from having a father in her life and he was like well why ain't nobody coming to me i said i'm literally coming to you right now and you ain't even my people right but i don't think it's fair that you're being talked about behind your back

by people that you think are your peoples he said well you know thank you for that that's the same nigga that fixed his mouth to jump on the bandwagon if we hate amanda because it was a bandwagon and he want to be seen he thought maybe he was punished he thought he was going to get an extra right he thought he was going to get an extra scene or something so now we're on set and i i finally say tosa so we're just not gonna talk about this because it's now going on for three weeks and my mental health is suffering okay and I just what I just it was a tough time and um she's like well you know like what do you want to talk about I said listen like the this was a terrible experience. Right.

This was terrible. I like literally cried like face to face with her. Like, this is terrible. And she's like, this is the first time she finally says, like, well, I'm sorry that happened to you. It took three conversations. And I said, well, you know, I'd like to talk to you further because I need you to speak to Vanessa. She is trying to ruin my career. She's like, I don't think so. Like she's trying to ruin my life. So I bring her into the room.

I bring her into my trailer and I had to do another 48 laws of power. I sat her on a higher plane than myself so that she can feel as the queen. And in this setting setting she is the queen right and i say you know i don't need nothing from you so i don't have a reason to lie to you but the people that work for you like in close quarters as whose names are really attached to you they will lie to you and i had to convince her that like, this is really happening. Like, I'm not making this up. And even if it turns out to be not happening, I still need you to speak to her to deduce

what it is, what is or isn't. So then she finally went and spoke to her. The damage is done, right? Because now you see how every few years this becomes a thing. And it was started from a lie. It was started from a lie. And, you know, it's not about convincing people because I don't need to convince nobody or nothing. But I just don't ever feel comfortable with people forming opinions not based on truth. on truth. I got in trouble for saying nigga. Uninsecure. I got in trouble for telling a brother he was a revolutionary nigga.

In trouble. Like literally got pulled aside and was told we need to talk about the incident that you had. I guess when you're in corporate, you gotta keep it corporate, man. We say nigga on the show. We say nigga all day on this motherfucking show. and it was a black woman who pulled me to the side

and this brother is tatted from the neck down wearing eating edibles on set from Detroit I mean that's nigga but I had said to him I had said because someone there was like a Malcolm X quote in my trailer and he sets my trailer, my clothes in my trailer. So I came to him. I was like, Hey, did you leave that Malcolm X quote in my trailer? And he was like,

nah, I was like, damn, you the only revolutionary nigga around here. He was like, I'm not a nigga. And I said, okay,

I get it. Um, who said that? And I kept it moving. This was the incident. So she's like, we need to talk about the incident. And I said, well, what incident?

Well, when you just referred to him as a nigga. So actually I referred to him as a revolutionary nigga. It was a compliment. Yeah, but when he said he's not a nigga, you didn't take it back. I said, like, you mean like take back sees? I mean, where are we at at and she was like well I said but we literally say nigga on this show

like literally she's like well you're gonna need to apologize to him but this is the action of like I need to you need to bow down people are always trying to get me to like apologize for some shit I didn't do wrong because they because they feel like I'm too haughty. They feel I'm too sure of myself. They feel like I need to be cut down to size all the time. And the unfortunate part of that is it's not a reflection of me. It's a reflection of them. Right.

Because what is it about me that makes you feel small and you want me to get down to your level? Why do you feel small? What's going on with you who made you feel that way that's not fair to you come on rise up it's in you you know what i'm saying like that's that's really what that is so she brings him into my trailer you fake apologize because she there and i was like, are you good? She's like, no, I need to stay in case something happens.

What's going to happen? I look at him. What you think is going to happen? He's like, I don't know. I was like, oh, my God. I say, you know what? I apologize for calling you, nigga. I did not intend to offend you.

Of course, in my head, what I said was I should have called you a bitch, but I didn't say that. I didn't say that. I didn't say that I didn't say that I didn't say that but it felt like right it felt like so now we got to shoot the car scene where we're driving in Malibu right so we in the car and I'm telling them about what happened and I start crying because I'm a sensitive soul and because this felt like another instance where I was being like bullied. And Issa laughed in my mother's face as I was crying and said, well, you know, you do have a tone. At the end of season one, I pulled Issa aside after this. I said, can we go to dinner? I want to I want to take you to dinner.

I took her to dinner. I say, you know, I feel like you think I have something against you. And I just I don't know why you feel that way, because we have been cool from even before this. She was like, well, no, I said, I feel like you think I have something against you. And I just I don't know why you feel that way, because we have been cool from even before this. She was like, well, no, I said, I feel like you have something against me. And she said, well, I think you I feel like you have something against me. And I was like, based on what? Because, again, Shannon, I'm on your show. Right.

I can't do like I'm I'm only to get scenes added. If you add them, I'm in pocket, baby. I can't do nothing so I said well why you said well, I I Guess I was looking at you like your character Am I that good of an actress she wrote the character bro What an actress she wrote the character bro what and so i said you know what so let's clean the slate because that's that's not i have nothing against you i really don't and if that came off

that was not my intention but by the end of the show um you know there were just certain scenarios where i had to really always be the bigger person and be the bomb to the situation and then in season five she came out of her face when she just came out her face at me one time too many and i just chose to stop being the bomb because the show was wrapping it was the end of the season it was the end of the series and i'm just not going to keep doing this. So what did you do? Nothing. I just stopped communicating. Oh, I mean, I had a little rail and he says that Issa is is like most of her set is with women, camera people, et cetera, et cetera. And that she's very empowering to women. Oh, I disagree. She wasn't empowering to me. She didn't feel like I needed to feel like I deserve to be protected i'm only giving a model i'm only giving a portion of your situation yeah so but that was my experience and nonetheless

i have still always protected her because i felt like it was my responsibility to do so but it is not can i ask you this when you received the backlash for the the sorority the aka do they understand that this is a i don't know i got them i never understood that do you feel now that everybody just nitpicks they just find like okay amanda got on red today why is she wearing red what do you think i mean don't they sound like that is that how you feel absolutely they are always looking for something. Even these hackers, writers who were probably paid by APAC, they wrote articles based on tweets. Tweets! They wrote articles based on not only my tweets, but on other people's tweets. Like this random person said Amanda needs to change her energy.

Black Enterprise wrote an entire article that said Amanda Seals complains that she's not invited into black spaces. Mind you, these are all spaces that I have worked in. And the follow-up line was, but the internet, so they anthropomorphized the entire internet. The internet says Amanda needs to change her energy. I do not need to change my energy. I don't. And all of those spaces, aside from Black Girls Rock, have contacted me. I don't need to change my energy. What needs to change is how we look at energy and how we understand energies that aren't necessarily our own right so even as we sat here and we have talked i have had to understand your energy and you have asked me to do that and even though it may not be my own we live in this space together we live on this earth together so we have to gain certain abilities to do that and that requires a lesser ego that requires curiosity, which I consider to be an indicative of love. It requires humanity. Like we live in a world that is continuously creating borders to keep people out because we feel like they don't deserve to be here because they're different or because they

love some, a different kind of person, or they believe in something different, et cetera. And I just, I am not that kind of person. I've never been that kind of person. And it is so liberating for me to understand that the reasons that people have been telling me, so you're talking about the nitpicking. It's not just nitpicking. They assign something to what they're nitpicking. Amanda has a tone because she's mean.

Amanda said this because she thinks she's better thananda think amanda said this because she thinks she's better than other black people amanda um said what she said because she's nasty none of these things are true but it feels terrible for people to assign things to you that are not true and you start to think to yourself if this is what it's like for me to be myself, then maybe I shouldn't be here. And as somebody who has had a full-on nervous breakdown and been suicidal,

it is not to be taken lightly when people attack character without legitimate reasons why, credibility, et cetera. And i was told that one of these publications it was told to them you know this is the type of thing that can drive someone to take their own life and they said don't go there this is not a game game. This whole last month has been such a journey of self by fire, right? Like I was forced to have this journey of self by fire simply because I wanted to be embraced in spaces that I embrace. Like there's no scandal. I was supposed to go to Howard to do an event and I was told that Howard rescinded my invitation because of these stories. These stories that have no validity to them and that I have not, you know,

been a catalyst to, but they are now, they're proving to be deleterious to like my advancement. Oh, Amanda Seals, she was, she was attacking Samaria Rice. What? I asked a valid question that ended up being proven, by the way. I asked a valid question. Don't we think that there's something worth questioning and why this woman whose son was 100% unjustly killed by the police? Don't we think there's something to be said for like, why are all these media outlets

like giving her a platform to accuse all of these people that are the leaders of movements for fraud and you know my problem is also that I think that people understand what I'm saying when I say something and like when I wrote my first book my uncle who's a judge in Grenada he was like make sure you edit that book like a deposition because it's on paper and people cannot read your mind so say it how you want it to be understood yep which is difficult in 140 characters it is but what i was saying with that statement was why are all of these black media outlets

giving a platform without any level of journalism behind it that is dangerous and they're putting these people mind you i don't even Sean King but again what am i about justice this is Maat the goddess of truth and justice this is unjustified he was asked by her brother to raise money when he got the money and found out that she didn't know she was given the money these types of turning this space into a gossip space is dangerous shannon we're trying to make movements and change but you do realize that's how social media works i don't have i don't have to be qualified i could be a a doctor. I could be a lawyer. No, but I'm not talking about social media. This is Black Voices and Griot and Narut, et cetera.

Right. They were just running with this story because that's how journalism works now. It's just clicks. So in their minds, it seems like, well, if we put this story out, we're going to get the clicks. And then there are going to be follow-ups and we'll get clicks for that. Right. And then there's going to be follow-ups. So let's not tell the whole story now.

Right. Let's string this along. Right. Like a soap opera. Yes. It's people's lives. So I was justified in that. People mad at me because I said, you know, if you got Nikes and Jordans, if you got money

for Nikes and Jordans, you got a passport, you're losing. Amanda Seals is a member of the petty bourgeoisie. She is making fun of the disenfranchised passport black folks what are you talking about do you understand these people don't want us here they don't want us here we need to be able to get out of here but when you go all over this world white people are everywhere did you know that they everywhere having a great time and we be thinking that we are only allowed to be here this world is for us we are the the bottom line. We are the creators. So why would we not make sure that we have access to everything instead of limiting ourselves to consumerism?

We can do both. Yes, we can do both. And one thing I've had to learn is just like sometimes I just be talking. Right now, by the way, the reason I sent that text is because I was sitting in the Paris Charles de Gaulle airport and the nigga I was seeing. I had texted and said, I got to Parisis i can't wait for you to get your passport and travel with me and he has said i don't need a passport i travel in my mind that's how they so about to see you and that's what made me send that tweet but again no further context but but people do nitpick.

And it sucks because you start to believe the lies that people tell you about yourself. And then you start to turn into the person that they are accusing you of being. They want you to be somebody who doesn't give a. They want you to be somebody who doesn't care if you hurt people. And I will say that most people don't get the opportunity to do a blanket apology. But since I have it, I'll take it. I apologize to anybody that I have unwillingly caused any level of discomfort that's never my goal never my goal and anyone who's taking that apology and knowing that it's not for you because it wasn't for you

considering what's been the way you've been portrayed and you said isa said well your character i was i believe that you were your character considering she wrote the character do you ever get afraid of being typecast um no because i mean i think everybody gets afraid of being typecast i mean especially like if you like skin like there's in black spaces oftentimes it's like okay you're gonna play like the bougie light skin girl you know um i think that there's something to be said for like i get accused of being colorist based on stuff like that you know like uh which i am 1000 not uh by any means.

I think in the past there were things that were like misinterpreted that have it's not even that they've typecast me like on camera. It's like I'm typecast in life. Right. Right. So like people like I remember on a breakfast club interview, they asked me, like, what are reasons people don't like you? This is always the conversation. What are reasons people don't like you? So I went down the list of reasons that people have told me that they don't like me Mm-hmm, and one of the reasons was someone had I have been told several times. I don't like you cuz you're light-skinned And I said that and that offended people because they thought that I was somehow In saying that saying that it was something as a negative negative. Like it was something positive, you know?

And ultimately, there is no way in the dissemination, the effective dissemination of white supremacy that we would not have dark skinned women who don't like you because you like skin and light skinned women who don't like you because you dark skin. They have been very effective at that division. Yeah. I was just stating a fact but not stating a... I wasn't trying to legitimize it.

This is something that has been said to me. Right. It took me also a little bit to understand that colorism only works one way right uh i don't know if bullying is the right word for what happens to light-skinned black folks who feel like they don't belong right because that's the thing like i get told like oh you light-skinned you're not really black but like i'm light-skinned because my great-great-great-grandmother was raped right by james ull in virginia or in maryland i should say who then subsequently had

children every month after that for 12 months with other slaves that he owned and he put his name on their birth certificates and this means that i'm also possibly related to robert e lee um i am light-skinned because my great-grandmother on my mother's side was raped by her boss when she was a maid in grenada so i just feel like we we oversimplify in a way that feeds this white supremacist ideology and instead of looking to each other to say how do we starve it with love and loving each other so you know i am not colorist there are many times where i have had to consciously remove myself from spaces because these people don't know what the they're talking about and they're

like well you're black you know like this this designer in russia wanted me to be the face of her africa campaign i said ma'am the only way i can do that is if i am partnered in equal level with a dark-skinned person from the continent and they were like oh you're just doing too much now we don't even see race don't you just love that one okay currently you're on ke too much now. We don't even see race. Don't you just love that one? Okay, currently you're on Kevin Hart's LOL Network. No. You done?

That ended like two years ago. Kevin, people's taking shots at Kev. I know Kev a little bit. But I think he's great at what he does. I know he's an extremely hard worker. He puts a lot of time into his craft. And's built a platform that that tries to elevate people. Oh, Lord. I think that's his goal, but I don't know that his staff has the same fervor for that, that he does. OK. And I don't know that he's I don't I'm saying this literally like I don't know if he's if he's necessarily empowered them to do that.

I literally don't know. I know that he voiced his intentions to me, but they were unable to be carried out. Right. And I have no hard feelings. Kev, Kev looked out for me in a situation that was, you know, Live Nation tried to cancel my whole tour. And I had to call people I know that, you know, got the juice. Right. And Kev answered the call. That's unbelievable. And it was a time where I didn't have other jobs. So if I didn't do them shows, there was no money.

Right. Because my man made no money And he wasn't trying to make no money So I was the only one making the money Right And I remember sitting in my Wake up with football every morning And listen to my new podcast

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and more. Get your tickets to be there now at AXS.com. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season's all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family.

I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. A living room's like staring off into space and he came in because I was quiet. And if a man is quiet, we in the problem. And my man came, my ex, he came in and was like, And my man came, my ex, he came in and was like, was you good? And I was like, no, because if I don't do these shows, we will not have money. Right. For the bills. And so I really appreciate Kev because he didn't have to do that.

And he did. Right. Bring the funny. You spoke highly of that. Chrissy Teigen, Jeff Foxworthy, Kenan Thompson. I do have a radio show now, though. Tell us about it. What do you like about the radio show now? Because obviously you're very opinionated. You have a lot to say. And when you're on the radio, you get to take your time and go.

Tell us about your radio show. People that are listening, Amanda, for the first time, what can they expect? To listen, laugh and learn. They're going to laugh and they're going to learn all day long. I love my radio show. Radio One Reach Media, they've just been such great partners. It really showed me what it's like to work in a place that sees you, you know, that came correct from day day one i never have to convince them of anything you know they respect my my wisdom about things they respect my my awareness about things so i don't have to you know try to win over and i always thought that my own show would be a tv show but it's a radio show and it ends up being so much better because i have so much freedom

and i get to speak to people where right now we're syndicated in a number of cities including dc we're on magic in dc we're on uh uh 103 in um in philly we're in houston on the box right you know we're in major markets and i just didn't realize that people really be listening to tv i mean to radio people really be listening to radio shannon and so it's just been really great to see how many people like, so we do a word of the day where I teach a vocabulary word. This bus driver, I went to Selma for the commemoration of Bloody Sunday. This bus driver in Alabama, because we were on in Muscle Shoals, she was like, I just want you to know that I play your radio show

in the bus for my kids. And she was like, our favorite segment is the is the the vocab segment so i have my co-host supreme and uh i just make it my business i take it very seriously that a lot of people are only getting this news from me so i just make it my business to be very fact based and then opinion right you know because i think we've gotten in a world where we can't really tell when it's facts and when it's opinion yeah and that's dangerous very making progress with your money starts today with the right checking account this year can feel easier shine online checking account has tons of benefits that million of members love like fee-free overdraft up to 200

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limit supply, early access to direct deposit funds, depends on payer. Out-of-network ATM withdrawal fees may apply. You talked about your time on The Real and you talked about the bad. Did you have any good times on The Real? Was there anything that you liked about your time there?

I liked my team in my dressing room. Liked about your time there. I like my team in my dressing room. Listen, your glam squad in those situations be your family because you there so early in the morning every day. Right. You know, let me just be clear, though. Like people like to say that I have issues with my co-hosts on The Real and I have never voiced that. And none of them have ever voiced that.

co-hosts on The Real and I have never voiced that and none of them have ever voiced that and my issue with The Real was about the the the executive leadership of The Real and the fact that we couldn't talk about like they would say things like I remember Tamara wanted to talk about wine and they were like well black people don't drink wine so we're not going to talk about wine wow just like how's that a thing um but i don't want to say that i didn't have a good time at the real it's just that i walked into it and i got blindsided that's really what happened shannon i got blindsided i thought that this was going to be a space where i could like really be myself because when i would guest host they were so embracing right and it just ended up not being that.

But you know what really happened at the Rio? I taught. I reminded those women of their voices. That's what they always tell me because they had gotten so used to the bull that they had just laid down their swords. And so I get there and they would be happening. I'd be like, oh, hell no. Right.

And they'd be like, well, we didn't even know we could say no. would be happening i'd be like oh hell no right and they'd be like well we didn't even know we could say no i'm reading and i read this and i'm like when i was doing my for you about the black publications no that that that that spoke out against you i mean because you speak so pro black and just because you're pro black doesn't mean you're anti this that means you just i want my people to do really well and i want my people to understand and be informed and understand the power that they have it had to have hurt to have these black publications i had a nervous breakdown talk to me it's just the willingness of folks to sell their souls for so little

and um i feel like that's what you have to do to like put your gift of being a writer to work in such a nefarious way i ain't met none of these people i ain't done none of these people i like to think that they were paid by a pack because if you didn't get a check for this and you just did this just to do it i'm just like damn that that's unfortunate for you but that's a place that I've arrived at. Right. Initially, it just. It's crazy to be excoriated in the public in general by like, you know, just people.

Yeah. But like publication where they're supposed to have people that are journalists that have integrity. These ain't blogs. Right. Yeah. Like, that's crazy's crazy like the last time this happened was with this myron roll situation years ago where i was put in a very up situation i had to make a judgment call okay and people have based my entire character off of this judgment

call people who have never been in this situation but i did the best that i could with that situation and um and i have been affirmed in that choice. But I think that what people fail to understand is that you be in scenarios where you got to make a judgment call. Instantaneous. You don't have. And you just doing the best that you got with something that doesn't have a blueprint. Right. And so now there's this whole narrative of Amanda Steele hates black men.

That it has no, literally no water. If I hates black men that it has no literally no water if i hate black men i want a refund i want a refund shannon you know how many brothers i have lifted up i want a refund i don't pay probation fees because the niggas can rap and i want them to be able to live in their talent and their truth i don don't talk to a damn P.O. to vouch, Baldy James, and you owe me money. But like there's just something very wrong about these places feeling compelled to just speak about somebody with no facts. At least quote somebody I've worked with if you're going to say I'm difficult to work with. I mean, it's burning bridges in Hollywood. Maybe there ain't no bridges in Hollywood this Hollywood is a shark infested pool the only

bridge I built was to get me out of it so I would stop getting bit so please stop telling me about burning bridges and and uh then there's they're in there talking about oh she's hubris do y'all even know what hubris means hubris is a mythological character from greek mythology who was told by the gods don't look in that pool don't look in that pool and hubris said i'm gonna look in the pool he defied the gods he looked in the pool and he saw his face and he was so enamored by his face that he drowned in the pool. So hubris is not someone who is necessarily enamored by themselves. Hubris is the story of a person who defied God. Now you tell me in this whole interview, where have I showed you that I'm somebody who is defying God I live by God right I am spoken to by God I speak the word so don't tell me about these words so

journalists using these words so um gratuitously is dangerous it's so dangerous and I am obsessed with words I'm obsessed with words Shannon I love them so much and I know that there's people who have lived by the word if you are somebody of a religion, you live by the word, whether it's the word of Allah or the word of the Bible. You know, if you're somebody who's a lawyer, you understand that this constitution and the words that are not in it are what continue to keep us oppressed. Words matter. So to have all these people using these words that I love so much against me, damn near killed me. Thank goodness I'm on Lexapro. Because had I not been on this antidepressant,

I feel like I would have gone down a much darker hole. But I have a great psychiatrist and I have even better friends. So when you talk about people protecting you, baby, I am protected. I am so loved. And that's why it's so wild to see people saying I'm not likable you are right I'm not likable I am lovable I'm so loved and it's like I'm in a place right

now where for the first time in my life I feel like the love for myself and the love people have for me are at the same level and And I've never experienced that before. And it took a long time for me to learn that I even had the right to love myself. You know, people say these things like, oh, don't be full of yourself. You better be full of yourself. You better be full of yourself because then what are you full of? You don't want to be hollow. And you also don't want to be full of everybody else's validation of you.

Because who are they? And baby, they will run away when shit go low and they gone you're empty you better be full of yourself and i have had to learn as somebody who had a nervous breakdown and was brought to the bottom and realized that all of my confidence was built on other people's thoughts of me other people's everything and of you. Everything. And I had to build myself back up. And luckily I had a therapist who taught me to do that. And I had to build myself back up. And so I tell everybody now, like, no,

please be full of yourself and love yourself. And, you know, particularly women, we're not told that we're allowed to name ourselves. I am a genius. I'm a gifted performer. I am a gifted person. I am a creative genius. I'm generous gifted performer. I am a gifted person. I am a creative genius. I'm generous. I am giving. I am kind. I'm funny. I'm delightful. Like these are not things that I need to wait for

somebody to say about me. I know these things about myself. Aren't we supposed to be God's children? Yeah. And that's not based in religion. That's just based in understanding. That's how I live. As a spiritual person, I believe I am a child that was made of something other. I don't know what we were made of, but I know that I feel like I was made of something supernatural. And I have a responsibility in that to live at my best. And people don't want to let you grow. People don't want to let you evolve. People don't want to let you find better ways to exist. People are talking to me about from 2005. Some interaction they had with me for 30 seconds in 2005. Now you tell me, are you judging people based on a 30 second interaction? No, because why? You might say we had a bad 30 second interaction, right? That's it. I'm probably gonna see that person again so i don't have a the same reaction one way or the same week that people are telling in these in these articles amanda seals is so terrible she you know she has boundaries etc the same week they talk about anthony mackie why let that man have his boundaries i'm like i can't call it i can't

call it and i've decided to stop trying to call it. I put the phone down. The queen came to your defense, though. Yes, she did. Because I'm loved by the people I love. And that is the biggest honor. Queen Latifah, Dana Owens. Okay. Can you help me understand this? I wasn't ready for that.

Sometimes. And it's happened before, people in our community forget that they're black. And they try to appease a group of people that's probably never going to embrace them. And once they realize that, guess who's the first group to take them back? I don't know her. I ain't say nobody's name, Amanda. You don't even know who I'm talking about. I don't know. How you know who I'm talking about? But we've seen this happen before.

Rest his soul. O.J. Simpson. You know, he had the famous quote, I'm O.J. I ain't black. Even Michael Jackson went through what he went through. Rest his soul. Right. Even Kanye had to be reminded. Even Michael Jackson went through what he went through, rest his soul. Right. Even Kanye had to be reminded. And now Miss Owens, who, oh, I don't want no black pilots. I don't want this. I don't want that. And now we can't keep off our black media stations.

Well, before she gave us a kiss. Now, if I'm lying, if I'm speaking out of turn, people, y'all correct me, but y'all know I'm telling the truth. Now, you're talking about somebody that's always uplifted this community, and I was one of the first guys that had a viral moment with Cat Williams, and they couldn't wait.

Excuse me. They couldn't wait to attack me, but Candace has given y'all her butt to kiss for two decades. In the moment, what are they doing? They can't fire me. They can't fire me. The hell you say.

Now look at her. It's not her fault. Who fault is it? No, no, no, no, no, no. Let's not take that blame. The spaces that let her back in. Huh? The spaces that let her back in huh the spaces that let

her back oh okay okay but that's how we are we're see we're very forgiving people who taught us to be that we do who taught us what who taught us that version of forgiveness do i need to do the lesson no i could i know them slave owners taught us that version of forgiveness. They gave us a Bible called the slave Bible and this Bible had parts of it taken out. It had the parts of uprisings taken out. It taught about forgiveness because

they needed to make it okay in their minds. No matter how bad I treat you at some point in time I need you to forgive me for the wrongs I've done against you. Because they had convinced themselves that it was still okay to keep people enslaved whose souls were saved. Yeah. Even though they knew that that was counterproductive to the teachings that they had learned. So, you know, we are oftentimes forgiving to our own detriment. We are. And listen, here's the thing you know what the

thing about forgiveness is is that you should absolutely forgive people who ask for it right right who ask for it and i'm okay with that i'm okay to forgive redemption i don't forget i just move on but redemption requires action there are restorative justice practices that have to be implemented in order for atonement to truly take place. And when that's not the course of action, it looks like something else, right? Yeah. It looks like it looks yucky. It looks like capitalism. It looks like it looks like clickbait.

It looks like naivete. It looks dumb and it looks insulting to anybody who has a mind and ultimately again i will bring it back to what makes a black space a black space at this point because when i create black spaces shannon sharp like smart funny and black right like my podcast small doses my radio show the amanda seal show we literally do black here at news when i create black spaces the the the word black in that context is always about community you said it earlier right so my problem like you've already pointed out is that i'm thinking well when they make a black space it's also the same thing but

maybe i mean but maybe i got i got kicked out of a black space you know i got i literally got kicked out of a black space by a black woman who sick black people on me black men on me to remove me so at this point i understand that we can't just look at black people and say is this skin folk or kinfolk we got to look at black spaces is this skin folk or kinfolk and all of these black media spaces that took her back in all these black media spaces that have just excoriated me for weeks i look at them and say you are simply black by name because you are white by commerce wow when i saw people taking shots at angel reese for crying because for the longest time you know she is a young person do you know how disgusting that is and that cornball nigga who loves to make himself look like he's the white people's savior who said

that emmanuel acco corny c-band oh lord have mercy man come talk to me white people i'm the black guy that's nice cut it out it's ridiculous man i know'm going to have to have... Well, you're not saying it. I am. You're not saying it. And you don't... And I will let you off the hook. You don't need to respond. Don't feel like you need to defend them.

All right. No, no, no. But, baby, you can't... I'll let you have your space. This is your safe space to say your piece. Can I have a hug? No, you wouldn't give me no hug. I tried to get a... I tried to get a dab. I have to get to a hug. No, you wouldn't give me no hug. I try to get a dab.

I have to get to a hug. And now I'm there. Can I have a hug? Yes, you can have a hug. Thank you. Dang, that was quick. I feel good. Good. I feel good. Dang, that was quick. I feel good.

Good. I feel good. Good. You hosted the BET Awards in 2020. In my house. And ain't been back. Shani, let me tell you, can't nobody say you don't put it together. That's why you were so successful on the field. Ain't nobody told you why you ain't been, but you can't nobody say you don't put it together that's why you were so successful on the field

ain't nobody told you why you ain't been but you can't host no more you can't well the internet told me that i haven't been back because i'm not like a ball baby i hosted the awards in my house yes i'm not saying that lightly kovid was happening and the stylist, their assistant tested positive, ended up being a false positive, but it tested positive. And two days before, I had to host the BET Awards in my house. Wow. I find this out. Now, at the time, somebody I had been seeing on and off, we were going to try to see if we get along again. So you were going to let him come? He was going to stay for the extended period of time because COVID.

So he was already, he was coming to the house. OK, and we're literally sitting next to each other when I get this call from Jesse Collins. Shout out to Jesse Collins and Dion Harmon. These are two people that are two of the most beautiful human beings on the earth. And Jesse Collins helped break the code for me about me. Jesse Collins, without calling me autistic, knew I was before I knew I was. And he literally told the staff, this is how Amanda works. She needs

information. That's what she needs. Lots of it. She just needs the information. And when she has the information, she's fine. Right. So let's just give her that. It doesn't take anything away from us, but some people feel like giving information is like some power struggle type shit. Right. But he tells me this, Shannon, so this this man bode james is at my house

and he's like i don't do physical labor i'm like lord child so i get him a check i get him a check to do the the show to to put up to put this thing together um one thing I'll never take from that man is he did hook up them wires. But now I can't have a stylist, a hairstylist, or a makeup artist

here. I end up having to do my own makeup with my makeup artist on my phone, with my hairstylist on like they're all on facetime telling me what to do i did 13 costume changes in my house while this man sat in my backyard on facetime telling people yeah i saved the bt awards and i got him a credit because that's the type of nigga i am i got him a credit and i got him his check now did he i'm not even let me stop

but i but you see how i'm protecting people that don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was about to do that because he's the type of person that would take things to another level. He tried to extort me once. You've been having a rough go with me. I know because I didn't have a father that really taught me what to do. And because I present to people in a way that they deem masculine. But it's really just passion.

And if they really were smart, they would understand that the passion that I speak with is the passion that I fuck with. So I don't understand why they can't do that math. Yeah, sports. I was reading that. I read that you know about what a nickel defense is in football. I don't even remember anymore.

Don't put me on the spot. But I really. You love sports, huh? Or you love football? Or you love to meet? No. I appreciate sports. The sports that I love.

I mean, like, it wouldn't be fair to say I love football because it's not even close to my love for gymnastics. Okay. You know, i respect football i respect basketball i mean i'm i got a j you know i used to have handles in my younger days now i have back problems but well that what you what you were saying about earlier that that's the kind of same thing that you were able to do with back problem you ain't gonna be able to do that no more man so i think you have to sit there one hour i think it's all about creativity i'm sorry i brought that up you're talking to a comic like whatever you say i got something in the chamber you know that's the other part i'm a

really good mother comic did you know that i did know that i didn't know that yeah i didn't know that okay well i mean i have my special you know i have my special i be knowing but this year is when i really realized like nigga you nice with this i've been going on stage and i don't even prepare no more i just go to see right baby i'm killing you like I'm really. Well, how about this here? Now, not to say, not to say I haven't had my L's. Yeah. There was a particular room in Los Angeles that I did take an L.

But I have a different style of comedy than that room was expecting. Right. Dating in 2024. I am single. You ain't try. You ain't. Who's hollering at me, Shannon? Who't who's hollering at me shannon who's who is hollering at me who let me ask you this how about this here at this point what type of man are you what type of man would interest amanda does he have to be scholarly uh funny i mean women like funny so

but that needs to be one women like funny funny. He has to have character. Character. And when I say character, I mean he has to have a very strong value system. Okay. He has to care about humanity. Okay. He has to like animals. Okay. He has to like music.

Okay. He has to be curious. He doesn't have to be scholarly, but he has to be curious. Okay. And the thing about curiosity is it's not just about education, but you have to be able to he has to be curious okay and the thing about curiosity is it's not just about like education but you have to be able to be curious about somebody else's feelings you know like that's the thing i feel like i run into with a lot of men like they they're not curious about like if i say i'm sad or if i'm saying i'm annoyed like they go into defense but really the next question should be why why and then there's a conversation and i learned in my last relationship, I really, really worked on my toxic traits.

You know, because we're all working to undo the things that shaped us that we had no control over. Toxic, huh? I was. Yeah, we all are. Anymore. You definitely have toxic traits. Whoa, whoa, Amanda. This is not about me.

Not about me. Okay? Thank you. This man said i need to every morning i'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa say that to ocho cinco you didn't say that to ocho cinco you didn't say that to ocho cinco i said i don't know if that toxicity to get a mean one in because the way you framed it i'm gonna just say i'm gonna just say shana i'm gonna just say shay shay the way you had said it was like whether she likes it or not this is my expectation and sometimes

the pussy ain't prime until prime time and it's just like damn is that what the expectation is every morning i mean sometimes my pockets ain't prime but she expect that I can't speak to that I'm just saying you know sometimes I ain't pride that sounds like a different situation how about this so you be the tip ain't no matter I know they sliding in your dm they're not ain't no man in your dm no have a beer there was one person in my dms but they they're not really like into me they're just like talking about professional stuff whatever ain't nobody sliding or dm i don't know if he has a girl i'll ask you they slide your dm off camera no they don't slide in my dms because they're like she's too intense

right and that's the thing i feel like a lot of men holler at me because they want to tame me like they like it's like a game for them yeah and like i had a dude i was talking to who was like yeah you know i like you because you're a challenge don't i don't want to do none of that i don't want discourse i want intercourse like please i want to be home on the couch hug the budd. That's really what I don't want to fight. People be like, Amanda Seals and her tone. I'm talking to a phone, baby. I'm talking to a phone. I'm not talking to you.

I'm talking to a phone. And if I say these idiots and you take offense to that, well, that's your fault. Okay. Tell me, correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. You don't want kids, but you had your eggs frozen, correct? Yeah, because everyone's frozen. You might, maybe.

Maybe down the road. You meet the right guy. Meet the right guy. No, I don't. I don't want kids. Right? Hold on. Hold on.

You got to be willing to compromise. Not with my uterus. Okay. You can have a, what they call a surrogate. I don't want to have kids, babe. Man, say, babe, you know, babe, who going to take, he going to say, babe, who going to take care of us when we get old? Well, that's a really scary, have you seen people in these nursing homes? My mama worked in a nursing home.

That's what I'm saying. That's what the kids are for. They not, the kids is visiting them in the nursing home. Nah, I'm saying my kids better put me up in the crib. Exactly. I bought them cribs. But so often that's not the case. And I want a big bedroom too. them in the nursing home no i'm staying my kids better put me up in the crib exactly i bought them but so often that's not the case and i want a big bedroom you know what you're better off having you're better off you know listen if you if you're getting if you're having kids so they

can take care of you i think that's unfair no i don't think you i don't think you know but that's the thought process for a lot of people right like and i think it's unfair because it gives them a job i have beautiful friends and i and i and i don't consider age to be the only reason for me like i have friends that are in their 30s right that are in their 20s like it's really about where your heart is at right and um i will be fine i will be fine i will be taken care of and i'll be supported because i support people and you get what you give unless it's black media you would oh you froze the eggs because people force you people really be on your head like just in case jic just in case just in case yeah jic but let me tell you that egg freezing process is a mother you getting that shit rammed up with you

every day and they looking around oh there was 16 yesterday now there's only 10 and you're like god damn eggs god damn listen to my small doses episode side effects of ivf i mean hands are gonna only say like so many eggs i mean how many things you think you're gonna get don't ever call me again you think you'll get 30 eggs per day for two months sir i don't know to be honest i know the things i know and i know the things i don't know and i really don't you didn't know at the time that it was i just did somebody tell you it was gonna be painful i mean it's not painful it's just it's just it's just um different yeah like it's just so invasive yeah it's so invasive it's so invasive like i like today my podcast episode about the

sexual assault i experienced comes out today on small doses. And it's like it's a similar type of like it's invasive. I feel invaded. Right. And you're like, this is very medical, but it still feels yucky. Is there anything you like to promote your podcast, your book? You got a movie. You're writing a movie. I'm on tour.

I'm on tour. The unlikable tour. Yes, come out. See me. I'll be telling jokes. I feel like my shows at this point are like TED Talks that you laugh at. But I'm hitting the road. I'm very excited to be back on stage.

I was blacklisted all last year. We'll do that in part two. And, you know, it's just it's great to get out in the world after you be on this internet and they beating you up and you go in the world and folks is like amanda we appreciate you we love you and just making people laugh is such a superpower so come on out to the unlikable tour go to amandaseals.com to get your tickets you can also listen to my radio show the amanda seals show every day uh you can go to uh wherever you get your podcasts and check that out if you're not in the city

that we're on and Small Doses is my podcast that we've been doing for six years will you do an episode of Small Doses? yeah you have to get

my people I'm sure I can do that for you your people? yeah do you have to get approval? I don't have to get approval but I have a busy schedule

I'm shooting like eight, ten times a week so he said I'm approval, but I have a busy schedule. I'm shooting like eight, 10 times a week. So he said, I'm a busy man. I'm a busy man. I will, I will commit by heart, but not by date. Um, I'll take that as a yes. Um, we got time cause I'm not going to die till I'm 80. Um, but, uh, I'm in the process of writing my next book on Simon & Schuster. So very excited about that. But my previous book, Small Doses, is also available wherever you get your books and audio books. And otherwise, you know, I appreciate this platform. The space you've created here is very unique and necessary. Thank you.

You know, you had asked me earlier, like, what has come out of these last four weeks? And let me tell you something, Shannon, I am a pure soul. I've always been a pure soul. I always move from pure intentions. And I've reached a point where I'm just no longer going to argue what people think with what I know. Amanda Sears, ladies and gentlemen. I'll see you next time. And listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolf. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

MTV's official Challenge podcast is back for another season. That's right. The Challenge is about to embark on its monumental 40th season, y'all. And we are coming along for the ride. Woo-hoo! That would be me, Devin Simone. And then there's me, Davon Rogers. And we're here to take you behind the scenes of the Challenge 40, Battle of the Eras. Join us as we break down each episode, interview challengers, and take you behind the scenes of this iconic season.

Listen to MTV's official Challenge podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.