Club Shay Shay - BEST OF 520: Gary Payton on Michael Jordan, Nico Harrison + Bow Wow tells CRAZY R. Kelly story

Episode Date: May 24, 2025

In this week's BEST OF CLUB 520, we look back at Jeff Teague and the guys and their sit downs with both Bow Wow and Gary Payton! On Club 520 Day, Bow Wow talked to Teague and the guys about growing up in the rap game, producing hit records with Lil Wayne, and hooping with R. Kelly! Plus, in their sit down with Payton, GP talks about guarding Michael Jordan in the NBA Finals, teaming up with Shawn Kemp, and seeing his friend Nico Harrison deal with the criticism of the Luka Doncic trade. Don't miss the best of two of the most jam-packed episodes this year! #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional well-being and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain. This is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways. From tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chastin. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith.

So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops. And they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. This is Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad.

Listen to absolute season one, Taser incorporated on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the world on drugs podcast. Last year, a lot of the problems of the drug war this year, a lot of the biggest names in music and sports

This is kind of star-studded a little bit man We met them at their homes met them at the recording studios stories matter and it brings a face to it makes it real It really does it makes it real Listen to new episodes of the war on drugs podcast season 2 on the I heart, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. The volume. I don't even have a question for you more or less a salute because like you said, you've been that niggas since we was kids. We see a lot of people who grew up in Hollywood, grew up with fame.

They don't always end up the same as adults, but for you to navigate to be who you are, that's dope. But how was that growing up with all that type of notoriety and just still having to be a regular person? Well, shout out to my mama. I got a black mama, so my mama ain't sharing the oil and shit. Yeah, definitely. Having my mama in my quarter, that played a big role

into my career. And not only that, but just for me, just based on what you said, for me, just to tell the base on what you said, for me, I always studied the ones who came up for me who fucked up. So I'll be watching them like now I know what not to do. Cause if I slip down that hole, that's what, that's going to be me.

So I'll be learning from motherfuckers making their own mistakes. But you know, I give all credit to my mom. So like without her, like she was like the launchpad into this shit that kind of prepared me mentally. And then of course, me having the legends in my quarter, having a stoop, having a Trevay Dupree. And just, you know, even the Nelly,

you know what I mean? Why I consider like a big brother. These is niggas that's gonna pull up and fight me if I'm out of control, if I'm on the internet. Wow, that's why I think I've been on this best behavior these past couple of years. Cause I understand what it is and I understand my brand, understand who I am.

And it take real big homies to come to you and then bring your ass down here one time and let you know what you been fucking up on. And I got a lot of people that love it. Outside the game, they inside the game and they don't wanna, they ain't gonna let you fall everywhere, so yeah. They're struggling.

I gotta tell them. I have, me and you had a fun moment one day, close. Like, we was, that's great. But we was out one night in Houston. It was me, you, I was playing with Boston. We was in Houston. It was COVID time. Nick, I knew it.

Oh, I knew it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two minutes until. Wait a minute. It's not that bad. When the mayor, when the mayor tried to kick me out of the city. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we had a good time and I was like, this is what I knew.

I was like, yo, he a different fame. I'm playing on the Celtics. This JT, JB, all them. Yeah, yeah. He was at camp. Yeah. And I said, damn, he walked through and no offense, but like 50 girls ran behind him. I said, yeah, he's a different famous.

They roll with us? Uh-huh, my fault. I didn't know you brought him to the floor out of Cito running behind you. And I looked at Jason, I was like, you got a lot of money, but you don't got that. And he was like, I'm about to go get that. I gotta shake that nigga's head.

When my mom and JT came over to the sex, y'all didn't fuck, y'all was like, you pull it up. You pull it up, I fuck with JT, man, that's my dog, man. Like that's family, you just bringing that up, man. And I wish my boy is in speedy recovery, too. I told him I was gonna go to Big Time, I'm gonna fuck with him and check on him while he down. But yeah, that's my dog, man.

And yeah, that was, that was a, that matter of fact, was crazy, that was me and Soulja Boy after partying to the Millennium Tour. That was one of the craziest nights at Camp Houston, for sure. That shit was crazy. That was me and Soulja Boy after partying to the Millennium Tour. That was one of the craziest nights at Camp Houston, for sure. That shit was crazy. It was going up. I wasn't there for long.

Yes. You not, that's right, you left. Pee somewhere out here, I'm gonna throw you on. Get your ass over somewhere. He got up out of there early. I wanna ask you, bro, how did the Millennium Tour start, bro? Who originated that?

It originated, I'm going to be real, Garrett. It all started with Gary, that's the promoter, the BPC. Gary and AD, they came up with this concept to break back that vibe again. The Scream Tour started with me. That's my shit, a stamp, a staple, and that was the first. And pretty much the Millennium Tour was kind of like the spinoff from that. And I mean, and the first one was 2019 with B2K and I felt that, you know, it wasn't my time to do it yet. I felt that the fans and me understanding our audience, that the B2K reunion was their time and it had to happen

for them. And it was, I didn't want to take away from the moment. The moment was too big and I set it out. And I just watched every artist from that, from our time just get the tweet and it was so pissed like, man, why the fuck y'all ain't calling me? Why the fuck? I'm like, nigga, y'all ain't bigger than B2K. Nigga, the girls want to see motherfuck B2K.

These niggas only come outside of me 25 years together. So if they can catch them one time, they gonna catch them. And then I came out, Rory on that brought me out as a special guest, shit went crazy and that's when they already, what's up, they gotta call the dog. You gotta call the dog. Ain't no way you doing anything millennial

without a meal or Chris Brown involved in that motherfucker. It's just, it ain't gonna work like that. That's what I'm talking about. You know what I' work like that. Like, that's a holler. That's a holler. You know what I mean? Like, come on, Darion, talk a little shit. It's true. We sold the most for Mar Millennial. We got the most hits out of the millennial, it's us too.

And I knew the car was gon' come, and when it came, I took the opportunity. Then Mario came back and he co-held live with me. And then Gary like, we got runnin' back again. I'm like, Tim, we we going three times in a row. Yeah, we going again. And that was with me, Trey, Marion, Rosé, and everybody else.

And how this one came about was, I put the call in the trigger. I called trigger myself. Cause Trey wasn't picking the phone for niggas. He was not picking up the phone. He was not entertained at the tour at all. And Gary was like, yo, I need you to put your bidders hat on and I need you to put this call in there. I put the call in there. I said Gary was like, yo, I need you to put your bidders hat on and I need you to put this call in there.

I put the call in there, I said, yo Trey, I need you to headline. He said, headline? I said, oh nigga, you hand line, this your shit. I said, nah nigga, I'm on some mother type of shit right now. I'm like, I need you to do this. You know, I don't got time for the ego shit. That's why I fuck with Trigga.

You know what I mean? Just put some positive touches on my nigga. Nigga's solid. Came on the tour, did a stage, rocked out. One of the best tour partners I think I ever had in my career, understads, with what it take. And all we can be able to do to stick in. Need to run the back.

I can't bring B2K, man. They too far. Nah, nah, we got some shit cooking on the works. I can't really speak on it too much, but it's something big going down in December as of now. Something real big going down, possible. Hey, get up and listen to this. Hey, boy, what's that thing's name over there?

I don't know, dope. Here you go, here you go, here you go. Digger Rans B, I'm the pothead. Here it go. They ain't ready for no tour in that shit, man. Hey, look, for leaving or not though while we're here just shooting and shit. That nigga Lowkey is like the motherfucker very smart

when it come to the fitness stuff. Like he the motherfucker that's in the office with Gary and them putting this shit together though. So I gotta give it to, I give it to Razz on that point. Now let me have that, that's for you. I was trying to clean this shit up by the way. Man, y'all don't watch these two niggas that move tonight, man.

It's a wild backcourt. Backcourt, great. That's right, so now speaking of your family, you got to address for your cousin, put Smud on Bow Wow name, man. Your cousin Orlando. Hey, that's my cousin. That's my cousin.

For real? Yeah, yeah. That's your real blood cousin? That's my cousin. That's your real blood cousin? That's my cousin, dog. That's your real blood cousin? Second cousin. Second blood. So he be trippin' sometimes.

Words? Nick, that's your cousin? That's my cousin. That's the fact. God, I'm out of here. He said he was hit back. And I think he was geeking. Hey, listen, man.

He, he be wild. I think he'd be wild. So he's trying to go wild, and this is my cousin. Excuse him, bro. Hey, excuse my family. Nah, he's good, man. He's good, man. Yeah, man. He makes mistakes in life.

Nah, nah. How the hell y'all need this fang with Orlando? I'm trying to save you from that, bro. I know his niggas, bro. If y'all see my cousin now, you big as hell, bro. Don't beat his ass. Nah, he good, man. They don't vibrate no autistic.

He ain't affected at all. He told me he was going to beat me up one day. I said, bro, what the fuck? He fucked that nigga Orlando Red. Man, I'm out, nigga. Hey, chill. You got to beat his ass, man. Chill, man.

Hey, it's family, bro. I ain't going to lie, right? The first time I said, man, I want out, nigga. Hey, chill. You gotta be his ex. Chill, chill. As family, bro. I ain't gonna lie, right? The first time I said, man, I'm gonna fuck, I'm gonna fuck. Get in some shit with me. I swear to God, I was hot at first, and then I'm like, when am I gaining out of this shit? He be tweaking, bro. Don't worry about it. I'm like, when am I gonna gain out of it?

None. It's like, he gonna sue me? I ain't getting nothing out of that shit. Then I feel like the people are like, but you know that nigga crazy as a motherfucker about you. You get no points off that, nigga. Right. So it's like a lose-lose, either way it goes. So I said, some shit, you just gotta let shit slide,

but that nigga keep playing it. I'ma apologize. I'ma apologize. I'm a motherfucker. Keep playing, y'all. Get him on the line, y'all. I'ma call him tonight, man. I'm fuckin' him tonight. Don't be ridiculous. Don't call him tonight. Don't be ridiculous. I'm gonna call him tonight.

I'm gonna call him tonight. Nah, he really gonna, he really gonna beat my nigga up. It's like, I don't wanna. All right. Fuck that nigga, bro. He say one more thing. I'm letting you slide, nigga. Let him slide.

I'm gonna call him tonight, man. That's not real, man. I'm gonna call him tonight. Say one more thing, nigga. You've seen it. Grab the mic before he work on a nigga tweaking, man. That nigga be trippin'. But you know what?

I'm not gonna lie, man. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not gonna lie. I'm not say one more thing. You see that? Grab the mic, a funny mark on the nigga tweaking. That nigga be trippin'. But you know, in all honesty though, the nigga really talented though. And I said it's Rae Sting. You know what I'm saying?

Like, the nigga's really funny. Like I just feel like if somebody really gave the nigga a real opportunity and put him in a situation, a real actor situation that he'll shine or a real movie role I don't do a fight just anything You know what I'm saying always said that shit cuz if you do my focus that's really funny though It was actually funny. I'll give it to you my nigga together. May. Are you told your cousin? Yeah, we're you you so we get together Second cousin To marriage though Marist though. Just keep it real. Oh, so it don't count. No, no, it's too merry. Oh, god. This is the stuff that. Oh, okay. Go ahead.

What's all new? No, I want to talk to you about who you know, bro. How that do it? Like did you play coming up? Was that one of the things? Yeah, yeah, sports was first. Sports was first. You know what I mean?

Just growing up in Columbus, you know, we got the Gus Macker out there. I know y'all know Gus Macker. I'm playing the Gus Macker a couple of times growing up. From there, we got spacked up. We was terrible. And I was famous too. That's like first album album. I went back to the city we got spacked up. We was terrible. And I was famous too. That's like first album album. I went back to the city, got in that shit.

We got in like air, so hot as fuck. You know how that shit be? It's like on Philly courts, they give you a map. You gotta try to locate your court. Like it was just too much, but growing up for sure, like basketball was my everything. Like I honestly felt like, damn, I had a chance. So I said, damn, my nigga is almost grown

and I just stopped him wrong. It's just not gonna happen to me. And then I saw Cherry McGuire and I said, I know I can't play the game. I can play, but I said, I know I probably can't play physically, but I want to be a part of the game somehow. You know what I mean?

And I said, damn, I want to be a sports angel. All right, for sure. Who was one of the coolest entertainers you've seen whooped up? Who? Who? Who? What? Prince.

Prince. Prince. Hey, and I know y'all probably heard stories. I hate to keep bringing this nigga name up, but the first person, because I can say so many people that shit like this. Oh, yeah, well, we know he can play. No, boo.

That nigga R. Kelly could play. What? He good at everything, Joe. I don't care what niggas say. Let's go home. Hey, R. Kelly is the greatest. There'll be fun inside. I didn't.

I mean, Robert did that shit. R. Kelly. There's a lady. Hey, yo, let me tell you something about this nigga. Hey, look. There's a lady. Because I know this shit going to go everywhere, because I don't know if nobody even told the story.

I remember one time, this a funny ass shit, right? This nigga, so this nigga Chris, right? This nigga called me. The nigga Brayle called me like, yo bro, what you doing this weekend? I said, nigga, I got a studio session with R. Kelly. That nigga Chris never met Kale, so he like, shit, I'm free.

Nigga, I'm coming to Chicago to come fuck with y'all. I wanna meet him. I'm like, cool, come on. Come down. We working on, I'ma flirt. So the nigga Kills, it's probably like one in the morning. Nigga like, we going to the gym. We about to play basketball right now.

We about to go to the gym. We about to go to the high five. We really go to the gym. We about to go to the gym. We really go to the gym. It's probably two in the morning. I swear to God, I never seen niggas play 505, but it was like playing 501. Cause every time a nigga got the rebound, on kill scene is, pass to the kills, pass to the kills,

pass to the kills. Every time one of these niggas get a rebound, you had to pass the ball to Ark, right am I lying? You got to pass it to this nigga. And I'm talking about this nigga is walking up the court, shooting from half. These niggas rebounding it, if you get it again, they kicking it back out the arc, kill it.

Oh, he's sad. Oh, I swear. Like, no one will shoot. You, you, oh, he's sad, I know exactly, yep, he's sad. You kidding, listen. Biggie, you don't know what killed. Hold on, you was at the house. I'm talking about. You said you were at the pool. You was at the house. You was at the pool.

What? Me and this nigga, Breezy, me and this bitch like, y'all, nobody can shoot on this nigga Tim, but him, this nigga's incredible. But he one of the top guys, but he making this shit though. He was hitting. So he going crazy right now. Yeah. And if he didn't, so he going crazy right up. Yeah And if he did miss

No funny shit though, how is that working with him to the studio? Because we don't get no all killy stories at all on R-Pods. Man, the niggas on the musical fucking chains bro. Like, you know, shout out to Lil Ronnie. He the one who produced Same Girl and he did I'ma Flirt For Us. And we, you know what I mean? When he did the record, we was at the house

and I was stuck like, again, like sometimes as writers as rappers, we get writer's block. Like he writes so much shit that she'll start rewriting the same shit. Like what the fuck? So I took a break. The nigga Kelz called like, what you feeling? I'm like, man, shit.

I know it's gotta be for the ladies. Like, it's me and you. Like, it's gotta be for the ladies. I got you. Give me like 15 minutes. Motherfucker called back and go, it's a boy. And I'm like, what nigga? Like, what?

He said, no, no, no, no, no. But listen, it's a boy. It's a boy. It's a boy I said what he said we got a hit and it's a vote me the nigga press play on that motherfucker Boom, it was on my flirt. Damn. I'm no cap like in a ten to five minutes I think I did the hook set it back and the rest of this is hard. Well, yeah She was talking with a lot of people bro. Yeah, tons of people, tons. Who the hardest worker?

It's you to say the hardest worker I've seen in the studio or like the hardest person to work with in the studio. The hardest worker period. Over this question actually. We don't want you telling on nobody. I would probably say the motherfuckers that live in the studio, Jermaine Dupree, he lives in the studio.

Wayne, the time I spent at Cash Money. Wayne is very reliable. You can rely on Wayne. When I was at Cash Money, his room is room A, I'm room C. If I'm working on some shit, I can go right out in the parking lot, walk right over to the other, right at Hit Factory, give it a tow, hey, I need you on this. He ain't gon' question it.

He ain't gon', he only gon' say, this is what you need me on, say less. He gon' find it. So I swear to God, that nigga gon' walk that bitch right back over to you in 10 minutes. And it's gon' be probably one of the doughest verses you probably ever heard, at least one of. Who else go crazy in the studio?

What about Chris? Me and Brown kind of work the same. Like, we got to have some party going on. Like, you know, it ain't just... Like, y'all like him. Yeah. Like, like, like our shit is different. Like, like Wayne ain't, Wayne ain't partied in the studio.

Yo, hold on, man. I don't wanna fuck up this story. Go ahead and say what you was trying to say. Remote the Hendrix experience. Well, say that first, nigga. Say it like, this is Chris Brown, I ain't no tellin' what these niggas is doin'. You talkin' about this like him. I don't wanna know this.

I just seen some reports out of the day. This nigga here. What's the vibes, though? So y'all got ladies in there. Yeah, I think for any artist that's a part of the life side, I really live the culture, that really live and eat and breathe this shit that we do from the nightlife experience to being on stage.

It's just really inherited what come with this type of shit, this energy. Me, Chris, and a Drizzy, and certain niggas that got that fan base, you know, a Drizzy is certain niggas that got that fan base. You know, my god, no, them niggas got motion. Just straight motion. And our studio sessions reflect that. It's hard for me to make a female poppin club record without, with just being my engineer in there. Like, we can't do this. And the women be letting me know. That's what's hitting. And shit, they ain't gonna let me know just by them vibing and the drinks going around

and they repeating certain shit. I'm like, oh yeah, we got us one. You look at all 20 of them. Yeah, 20, look at all 20 of them. Look at them, they dancing, the hookah going and shit. They fucking with this. Well, hold on, the Henry experience don't be like that. Maybe all four.

So all four of them. You talking? We're drove too hard, girl. Smart little guy, don't worry. We'll talk after this. You a little bit shoot nigga, but you gotta have them, you gotta have them vibes, man. So you know, that's just me.

I can't, you know, certain records, see I don't want nobody in this too, but when they booin' I'm about to get it crackin' and make some poppin' shit like a use me to track me a brown guy. Yeah, it's Huga going on, it's Neverson, it's going on, and it's just a vibe, like we just vibin' out. So, so, so, I definitely appreciate you, but for real, hell yeah.

Yes, most definitely. One time, make some noise about why I'm pulling up to the city one time for us. Come on, man. We outside, didn't I, right? We outside. Now, where we at tonight, be here? Yeah, Moon and Hope, you know.

Are you coming out tonight? Yo, ass, ain't girl. Uh-oh. On camera. But shit, I think so. You, you, just so you know, you and me, who took that? That ain't good. That ain't good?

You ain't always said you had 20 followers. But that's me, though. That ain't, like, you just there. You got party. Fur, they in my feather flock together. Fuck me. I got you. I got you.

I got you. Hey, when a nigga do this. And avoiding your life. I like being married. Got a millennium tuber. Nah, I'm just kidding. I'm gonna be out. She'll be out with you. So sorry.

That was bullshit. We outside tonight. Listen, we appreciate y'all. One more time for Booth Spoken. We appreciate y'all for Sposhers. Wanna full of bit. Back nine. Appreciate y'all for having me.

I'm out. I'm out. I'm tonight. Listen, we appreciate y'all. What's up time for booze smoking? We appreciate y'all for spots. It's wonderful. Yeah. Back now. I appreciate y'all for having this. A little AD sports for the love and the Black forces. We're about to start it up the rest of the time. Gotta enjoy ourselves, get some drinks. Get y'all at the bar.

Tend to do they string. Let's get it. Listen, the NBA finals are almost here, and every play can lead up to the moment that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs where heroes rise, legacies are almost here and every play can lead up to the moment that changes everything. This is the NBA playoffs where heroes rise, legacies are built, and most importantly, the action never lets up. And with the Draft King Sportsbook and the official sports betting part of the NBA, you don't just watch the games, you live it.

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On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resorting Kansas, 21 and over age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction, Voighton, Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co slash audio. Made for this mountain is a podcast that exists to empower listeners to rise above their struggles, break free from the chains of trauma and silence the negative voices that have kept them small through raw conversations, real

stories and actionable guidance. You can learn to face the mountain that is in front of you. You will never be able to change your growth through the thing that you refuse to identify. The thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle, this is the thing that's in front of me. You can't make that mountain move without actually diving into it.

May is Mental Health Awareness Month, a time to conquer the things that once felt impossible and step boldly into the best version of yourself to awaken the unstoppable strength that's inside of us all. So tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional wellbeing, and climb your personal mountain. Because it's impossible for you to be the most authentic you. It's impossible for you to love you fully. If all you're doing is living to please people, your mountain is

that. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A lot of times the big economic forces we hear about on the news show up in our lives in small ways. Three or four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up, so now I only buy one. The demand curve in action. And that's just one of the things we'll be covering on everybody's business from Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Max Chafkin. And I'm Stacey Vanick-Smith. Every Friday we will be diving into the biggest stories in business, taking a look at

what's going on, why it matters, and how it shows up in our everyday lives. With guests like Business Week editor Brad Stone, sports reporter Randall Williams, and consumer spending expert Amanda Mull will take you inside the boardrooms, the backrooms, even the signal chats that make our economy tick. Hey, I want to learn about VeChain. I want to buy some blockchain or whatever it is that they're doing. So listen to everybody's business on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I know a lot of cops and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes. But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops call this Taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that Taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley

comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is absolute season one, Taser Incorporated. I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season One, Taser Incorporated on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes one, two, and three on May 21st and episodes four, five, and six on June 4th.

Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcasts. I'm Michael Kassin, founder and CEO of 3C Ventures and your guide on Good Company, the podcast where I sit down with the boldest innovators shaping what's next. In this episode, I'm joined by Anjali Sood, CEO of Tubi, for a conversation that's anything but ordinary. We dive into the competitive world of streaming, how she's turning so-called niche into mainstream

gold, connecting audiences with stories that truly make them feel seen. What others dismiss as niche, we embrace as core. It's this idea that there are so many stories out there, and if you can find a way to curate and help the right person discover the right content, the term that we always hear from our audience is that they feel seen. Get a front-row seat to where media, marketing,

technology, entertainment, and sports collide. And hear how leaders like Anjali are carving out space and shaking things up a bit in the most crowded of markets. Listen to Good Company on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Who was your best point guard matchup? John Stockton, by far. He was just a little bit more crafty. Everybody thought he was dirty, but he was just stupid.

We just didn't know how to play. It took me six years to figure him out. And then when I figured him out, when we beat him in the Westbrook Conference Finals, I figured him out. I figured out I can't keep doing the same thing I do with him and try to overmatch him. I gotta play the same way he played. And I gotta just, every time I pound him,

he'll fall and take a charge. Then I start saying, no, I know he gonna hit, he gonna think I'm gonna hit him twice, but I'm gonna hit him one time and I'm gonna step off and then he shoots a jumper in his face and do everything and then face him up and go around him. He couldn't deal with me that day. And then when I figured him out,

it was a little bit different. And then, you know, like everybody know today, I idolize him a lot, you know what I'm saying? He's like one of my best friends. And you know, and it was just, I really love playing against players like that. You know what I'm saying? Because it got me more of an IQ of the game.

And John Stock and Tim Hardaway, Kevin Johnson, Rod Strickland, Mookie Blaylock, people like that I wanted to play against, man. You know what I'm saying? Because they gave me more game and made me more of a better basketball player. Nah, for sure, for sure. We gotta talk about Oakland.

Like we said. My hood, the big Leo. You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of talented point guards come out of Oakland. Obviously y'all had a conversation recently on another podcast and y'all was talking about top guards in Oakland. We brung up Dame Lillard, Jason Kidd, and you. And I went with Dame.

That's my class. That's the guys I grew up playing against. I think Simba said. Simba might've- He said J.Kidd. He said J.Kidd. Simba said J.Kidd. He said J.Kidd.

And everybody else said you. Right. And I seen what you said.Kid. Semp said J.Kid. He said J.Kid. Yeah, and everybody else said you. Right. And I seen what you said. Your response. I love for you to elaborate a little more on your response. It made sense to me. I get it, because he the OG of the shit. But when you really start,

because obviously y'all, damn my God, you know, damn, that's our God, but when you start breaking down, like, hold on, I averaged 20 points, the simple was over there said like. You did. Yeah, because people forget how you score, bro. What you said, people forgot how I score. People think about my defense.

Y'all gotta understand, man, I was scoring like, for eight straight years, I was scoring over 20 points a game, you feel what I'm saying? And then I was getting down, locking down people, and then averaging eight assists and three steals. Gotta understand that, that's the way the gang goes. And people don't understand, I scored over like 21,000 points.

People forget that. They over, they overlooked that. But what I say is about my two youngsters, right? Jay, I raised him. You know what I'm saying? Y'all gotta understand, Jay didn't start scoring until the end of his years of his career, right? So if we break it down, Jay is a better passer than me.

You feel what I'm saying? Defender, he's not. You know what I'm saying? Scorer, he's not. But he's a great IQ guy. You know what I'm saying? Dame is my youngster. You know what I'm saying? We can't youngster, you know what I'm saying?

We can't put Dame in that situation right now because he's not fulfilled all his things that he's done. But he's made his mark on the NBA as that shooting and scoring and stuff. Dame is a little bit different to point guard than us. You know what I'm saying? Because his era came a little different. It's about scoring here now.

It's not about passing the ball, getting other people into the game. Jason was a better rebounder than both of us. You feel what I'm saying? So it's a little bit different than what we do. Damed and still the ball like we stole the ball. Feel me? So it's a little different than what we're talking about.

Errors, it's an era thing. I get it. Everybody has the opinion about a lot of stuff, but I just say, where are they from? From Oakland, you feel what I'm saying? We breed that, and that's just the way we're different. I'm the OG, you know what I'm saying? So we did it a little different.

You guys didn't watch me as much, but you know who I am, you know what I'm saying? You guys didn't watch me as much, but just know who I am. You know what I'm saying? You all watch me as much. Y'all got it. You are, I'm on it. We were all in there. We watched. We understand.

It'll be like that, but it was like. You talking about overall. Y'all era is like you say, Dame is your God. I feel like that because I played. I prayed. Played against it and cried. And I understand that.

I always tell people it's about an era, what y'all did. That's why I don't like people to ask me about a goat, because a goat ain't gonna work for me, because y'all didn't play the same time as each other played. So I can't tell you about a goat, you know what I'm saying? All of us was good, you feel what I'm saying?

So you just think about stats. That's why people go with a goat, they think about stats. They say, oh go with a goat and think about stats. They say, oh, he want this, he want that man. But did he play against him? Did he get out on that, he like that? No, they didn't. Then too many play against Larry Byrd.

One of the coldest little motherfuckers I ever seen. Come on, ADN is finding you. What you talking about? You know what I'm saying? So I'm just saying, man, you know, we didn't play against Will Chamberlain and Kareem or Dua Jhabour, we didn't play against Will Chamberlain and Kareem or Dujabara who couldn't stop a Scott Hook and Will Chamberlain.

Everybody breaking Will Chamberlain's records. Feel me? They bringing all his records and they go, well, he was in the 60s, whatever. Well, he was 22, 21, still was the same. You know what I'm saying? So we don't do goats here, man, I don't. You know what I'm saying, I don't do goats.

So, but the point guard thing in Oakland, them three was pretty good, us three was pretty damn good. You feel me? And we're pretty good. And two of us is in the Hall of Fame in Top 75. Dame is already in the Top 75, he's gonna be in the Hall of Fame. We're doing a thing, you know,

Dame might score more points than both of us, but it is what it is, you know what I'm saying? And I think when they go to New York and say that stuff, about the point gods, you know, we got the point gods over here and in the Bay, and in the West. I don't think it's another, it's a trio like that.

LA? LA got some point gods, but all top 75s? Ben Davis. Ben, James Harden and Russ. But I'm saying they all top 75s. Same, that's your three. The two made the top 75. BD is my youngster.

He nice. If he wouldn't have got hurt, he would have been colder. It would have been, you know what I'm saying? But if we'd all three, if we'd have played them three, it would have been a battle. Yes. You gotta understand though, Paul Pierce is from Oakland, California too.

He was born in Oakland, California. He was in LA. Okay. So we got another type of guy. Yeah, Paul. Yeah, Paul. What's that trip about? You know, it's in oil.

But Paul Pierce had grew up around a corner from me. I grew up with one of his brother, him. He moved from Oakland when he was 11. And one day I like asked him about it. I asked him about it. I can't wait for Paul Pierce on my thing. Yeah, I tell him. He ain't no LA boy.

He ain't no LA boy. He grew up in New Orleans. He grew up in LA. He grew up in LA when he was 11. So let me break it down with y'all. That's where the game go. you feel what I'm saying? So yeah, so we got a lot of top 75s and all the famous. You know what I'm saying?

So you was the OG. Who like showed you the way coming up in Oakland? Like who put the ball in your hands? My daddy, really. For real? You guys, my daddy coached everybody we talking about. Everybody. Every one of these guys,

we talking about my daddy coached and touched hands on them. So they brought me into that. I really idolized George Gervin, who is my stepdad now, like my step pops now. But I was coming up in the hood in Oakland, my daddy was the one who put hands on me and touched me. You know, and he touched a lot of the other, he coached Jay, you know.

Dame came a little too later because he was in the later, but he played against my daddy in my daddy's teams and stuff like that, but that was it. You know, you got to understand, we had B Shaw, we had Antonio Davis, we had Greg Foster. We had all of them, Cliff Robinson. We had a Davis, we had Greg Foster. We had all them, Cliff Robinson. We had a lot of players. Y'all forgot, Bill Russell is from Oakland.

Paul Silas is from Oakland. We had a lot of basketball players. You know what I'm saying? You know the dope part about that is, that's kind of how his pops is. Coach T in the city, bro, everybody in the county. Yeah, I heard about his dad a lot, man. He reminds me of my dad a lot. Your dad reminds me of my dad a lot.

Coached everybody, man. Literally coached everybody. Coached everybody. Coached everybody. Trained a nigga or something. Yeah. And my daddy did the same thing. So my, but, you know, it wasn't just about basketball.

My pops used to go around to schools and he'd see dudes shooting dice over there. They used to say, oh, there go my daddies. There go Mr. Page White, White Escalade, or whatever, whatever. Man, let's jump over fence and get up out of here, man. Cause he gonna get at us. My daddy put life in a lot of people, man.

He taught them how to cook, he taught them how to do other things. And that's what I thought about why I went into coaching now. Why I coach the young guys now, because I want to make them men. Everybody ain't gonna make it in basketball or a profession. They got to understand that their lives

is more than sports. Their life is everything. Because they're gonna be a parent at one time too. You feel me? You gotta raise somebody. And that's what I always tell them. And that's why I got into coaching, because I want to tell them that and understand that.

You can't always be who you wanna be, but you can be who you wanna be in a different world, in a different aspect. You know what I'm saying? You could be a lawyer, a doctor or whatever, and make an impact on anybody's life. And we ought to understand that. Yeah.

And that's what's over to you as well. Biggum up, he coaches our alma mater. You know what I'm saying? So the impact you have on them kids, not even from a basketball standpoint, just to show like, hey, you can be something in life or you can move, like you can have these morals and be successful on the avenues is very important.

Cause we don't got that much representation in our community. Absolutely. And that's what we gotta always be big on. When my daddy gave it to me, I think God told him to pass it on to me and keep it going. You know what I'm saying? Because we gotta catch these young kids

because this mental health stuff is really killing us right now. They don't know how to respond to people and say, yo, I know you helping me, let me let you help me. Let me tell you about my situation because I can get a lot of these kids out of their situations and get them into some help programs and do the things that they have to do.

But you have to give them some support because none of them really grew up like that. They only grew up with a mama. Me and Jeff grew up with a daddy. See our daddy was a big part in our life. Most people didn't grow up with a pops like that. So we gotta understand that. And most of my guys who I deal with

didn't grow up with daddies like that. They grew up with mamas where they can go on the streets and do whatever they wanted to do anytime in their life. And my daddy was there to take responsibilities for them. So we have to understand that. So we gotta give them that support. Gotta give it to them. That's a fact.

I definitely wanna ask you to, Sean Kent from our state, he's an Indiana, you know what I mean? Al Cork, Indiana! Indiana! Al Cork, Indiana! Indiana! That's where he's from!

Nah, for sure. The Ray man. You know, I know all of us want to ask you, man, how was that playing with him, man? Like, that was crazy. That was a crazy duo on NBA Jamz. What? Iconic.

NBA Jamz turned this out. No, real shit. Real shit. Hey listen, man. Let me tell y'all about that. Everybody talk about this, Live City. No disrespect to CP and them and all that. We was the first ones with Live City.

Me and Sean was the first ones to get it like that. You know what I'm saying? Playing with him for seven years was amazing. Me and him are partners now in the cannabis business and all that stuff. I see Sean on a regular basis, man. And playing with him and becoming a friend with him is more important than that.

That's how a chemistry comes together. And that's how we did it. And people just don't understand. I think, and I always tell Sean this, I said if we wouldn't have got our ego messed up, and his ego messed up, if he would have stayed with me more years, he'd be a Hall of Fame by now.

You know what I'm saying? Because we would have made a bigger dynasty than what we did. We were one of the two, one and one, one of the greatest duels to ever play with each other. And what I think, and I'm trying to get him in the Hall of Fame now for what he's done with me, you know what I'm saying?

So I just think I had a blessing to play with a person with that much talent because I can just throw the ball up to him and he will go get it anywhere. But people don't understand how good he was with the basketball and shooting in the mid-range game. And his back to the basket, he was a beast. You know what I'm saying? And so people didn't really understand that

about how much freak ability he had. You feel what I'm saying? He had a freak ability that nobody really, really knew that he had, but if you see it every time, y'all watch our highlights of all our games, he did some stuff that was so incredible to me, man. I used to be like, wow, you know, I'm playing with this guy, this dude.

I used to see them lives you're doing. Yeah, yeah, I used to, he used to always tell me, he used to always tell me, man, give me a challenge today, man. Throw it somewhere where you don't think I'm gonna go get it and I'll just throw it up there and he'll go get it. Was that instant chemistry though? It was.

With him? It was. What happened was in 89, I was in college and he was just coming out, right? And Sonny's drafted him. And they wanted a point guard. And then Bernie Bickerstaff seen me and he said, I think this is the kid that we gonna get. So he started telling Sean to watch me.

And Sean started watching me and I was in college. They hit me every now and then. And then they didn't have a chance to get me at all. You know what I'm saying? And then all of a sudden they fooled around and didn't make the playoffs and then got in the lottery. And their balls was a chance of, what Dallas was this year, they get the Cooper Flags.

Oh, shit. Their chances were 12% to get the number two pick or the number one pick. And they fooled around and got the number two pick. Wow. Oh, so you had a script. Okay. And I knew I wasn't gonna go no lower got the number two. Wow. Oh, so you had a script. Okay. And I knew I wasn't gonna go no lower than one or two.

And New Jersey wanted me, but they wanted a point guard and a big man, and Derek Coleman was coming out. And then Kenny Anish was gonna come out next year. So I went and told them, don't draft me. You can get Kenny the next year. So I wanted to go to Seattle. So, and then they drafted Derek Coleman, and then I wanted to go to Seattle. So, and then they drafted Derrick Coleman,

and then I went number two to Seattle. Yeah, so he was a part of the bullshit early. Yeah, he was. That's right, that's right. That shit ain't real, bruh. There ain't no way Dallas get that pick, man. It happens, man, when you listen. Hey man, they crucified my boy Niko man.

Man, because he traded Luca man. But then all of a sudden, the bad luck went even worse when they made all them injuries. Then all of a sudden, big bang bang, lottery hit. Bingo long, I went into one of them old crazy liquor stores and paid $10 and got a lottery. And what I do, I hit.

I hit for that billion. You feel me? And got the boy. And got that boy, boy. Man, listen, that's one of my favorite NBA moments. They show in their dressing room, they say yes. I'm like, they cheated, man. Ain't no way it's supposed to happen. Ain't no way it's supposed to happen, man. They show in their draft room, say yes? I'm like, they cheated, man. Ain't no way it's supposed to happen, bro.

Ain't no way it's supposed to happen, man. Bingo Long, I knew he was going to a wack team, a team that was gonna be losing, and all of a sudden I said, man, you hit the lottery. You at the lottery and hit the lottery. And then those teams were at the bottom of the lottery. No, their chances were zero. Oh yeah, I know, but no, I'm fact. They weren't supposed to get it, bro. Did you understand, it chances were zero. Oh yeah, I know bro. No, fact.

They weren't supposed to get it bro. Do you understand, it was at 0.8 for Dallas to get that pick. Do you understand me? They went to the finals last year. That wasn't supposed to happen. They was in the finals, they lost to Boston. You feel what I'm saying?

Poor Utah Jazz. It is what it is, but you know what? I feel for my boy, J. Kid as a head coach. Love it. And then I feel for my boy, J.Kid as a head coach, love it. And then I feel for Nico, man. Nico was my rapper at Nike. That's like a little brother to me, man. He always looked up to me like that.

So I feel for him because what he took, you know what I'm saying? People don't understand. He's the president and general manager. He can't make them calls on his own. Our owner has to make that call. He can't just say, I'll make the call cause he's gonna get fired.

So all you fans out there messing at him like that, get up out of here with that. It wasn't his call man to make that decision. He made a decision on what he was told to do or what it was supposed to be done. And that's what they did. So I'm happy for him. What's gonna happen, you get Kyrie back after this injury,

man, which he'll probably come back in January or something like that. And they'll be rolling, they'll make a thing. AD come back where it is, get all the guys get healthy. Because if they whole team get healthy, it's gonna be a beast. Dallas gonna be a beast. That's right. Speaking of the finals, we all watched the last dance.

I wanna ask you on this show, how did it feel knowing you going to the finals against Michael Jordan? In 96, that was great, man. You remember I got on cover of Sports Illustrated and said, Michigan, impossible. I had just won the defensive player of the year, first point guard to ever do it.

And it was just something. But people didn't know I got hurt. I tore my calf muscle and I really couldn't move. What I did was I went in there and they found a solution. They found a little miracle thing to do. It got my leg better. I wrapped it up a little bit and then all of a sudden, you know, it's a miracle, you know what I'm saying?

So then I started playing and I started feeling better and better and better. Then we got down too much and then I just started saying, let me guard him. And he was averaging 33 at the time and then I started making it a pest for him. I started making it a pest for him and then I broke it down to 23.

And then what coaches do, they knew I started becoming a problem. So they had to make, to solve the problem. What do you do? You solve the problem. So Jordan was taking it personal with me, which I wanted to happen. And then, you know, Phil Jackson said,

nah, let me put somebody bigger on him and distract him and make it a problem for him. And he put Pippen on me. And Pippen is a bigger player than me. He was 6'7". He could be, he was mobile. He was there and he was taking a toll on me. He took a real toll on me to try to score and guard Jordan at the same time. And he took a toll on me. And then by the time the sixth game came, we had broken down to 3-2. The sixth game came on, I got a little fatigued. You know what I'm saying? And they took us out.

You know what I'm saying? It is what it is. It just took us out of the game. But it was just good bump, like who fans to see that? Like that's a hell of a matchup. Like to hold your own against one of the players that we called it go. Like you said, that situation,

that just gotta be dope for you in that moment. It's just like, I'm here. You know what? It was easy for me because of my mindset. I thought it was always, I wanted to play against them all the time. Remember they were 72 and 10. We were 64 and 18. Y'all forgot that.

We were the number two team in the league at the time. And we beat them out of that 10. So it was like, I just wanted the competition. I just wanted to play the best. You know what I'm saying? I don't stray away from nobody, man. When I played, my daddy always told me, man, if your leg ain't broken and it ain't off,

get on the floor and get it. And that's what I did, I just went and got it. And he was always the one to take the competitive to me. I love it, yeah. Well, how did you respond when you see him laugh? Like, I know you, you probably was laughing too. I laughed right there. I said it is, I wouldn't even,

Jeff, I wouldn't even have respected him if he didn't say that. I wouldn't even have respected him to say anything like that, or less. Cause it's his documentary. I don't care, man. We all knew what the game was and how it was. Whoever, whatever, it's good.

We knew what it was. Nah, for sure man. Listen man, OG, we are honored, man. We appreciate you pulling up on us, man. It's been a pleasure. Listen man, we can't wait. You got some things in the works, man. We can't wait to see what that happens, man.

We ain't gonna say too much, you know what I'm saying? Yes, sir. You know, I got it all getting it, man. You know what I'm saying? I'm gonna get it, man. Anytime y'all want me on this 520 club, I'm with y'all, man. Do a club 520, man.

Y'all doing a great job. I told y'all, I respect y'all to the fullest, man. This is what I wanna see. And young guys like y'all, man, get it, man. Do what y'all want to do man. And then always man, set a mark for yourself man. Always when you lead something, especially with you Jeff, you play in the league,

do your thing man, keep doing this with your boys. Hook it up man, do it. Anytime y'all need me, holla. That's how it is. That was the Boost Mobile Club 520, we out. We out. Appreciate it. The Volume. The Made for This Mountain podcast exists to empower listeners to rise above their inner struggles

and face the mountain in front of them. So during Mental Health Awareness Month, tune into the podcast, focus on your emotional wellbeing, and then climb that mountain. You will never be able to change or grow through the thing that you refuse to identify, the thing that you refuse to say, hey, this is my mountain, this is the struggle. Listen to Made for This Mountain on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. A lot of times big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week, I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the price has gone up. So now I only buy one. Small but important ways from tech billionaires to the bond market to, yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chaston. And I'm Stacey Vanek-Smith. So listen to everybody's business

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