Club Shay Shay - Best of LeBron Part 2: Real reason Bron Left Miami + Haters claim the King doesn’t have a “Bag”!

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson join Quentin Richardson to discuss why LeBron left Miami and debate claims that LeBron has “no bag” despite being the NBA’s all-time leading scorer. 39:13 - LeBron needed Heat years to be the GOAT? 1:00:19 - Q-Rich debate the real reason LeBron left Miami 1:09:32 - The Moment D-Wade knew Bron was leaving Heat 1:17:25 - LeBron got treatment in the club?! 1:28:05 - LeBron has no bag?!?!   (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There ain't no contention. You got to win it. Hold on. It can't be contention because he went to the finals four years in Cleveland. He won one Yeah, he's only won one title in LA. He's been here five years. So we can't automatically assume Because that's hypothetical we can let's deal with what we know Oh Joe, we've got to deal with what we know and that's what I'm saying because now without those two extra MVP regular season without those Two extra finals MVP guess who else you bring into the equation One Stefan Curry. Yeah, because step has four Yeah, Steph has two MVP MVP and a final MVP

So now let's just say for the sake of argument, LeBron has two regular season, MVP, two finals, MVP. Are we looking at LeBron the same way? Yeah, we are. No, we're not. He's different. No, not with Ocho. He's different.

So are you basing his greatness solely on MVP and titles? No, no, but, but that's how you get into the GOAT debate, it's rings. Remember? Rings. No. Ocho, what did we say? You and I both say it. You can be great and not have rings. Charles Barkley was a great player. Carl Malone was a great player.

John Stockton was a great player. We can't put them on the same stratosphere on the same pedestal as LeBron. But let me ask you a question. He's in the category of his own with Michael Jordan, the Cope of Bryant. But what does he have? Rings! Rings! I understand what you're saying, but even still, even even without the rings dude, dude, he's he's Oh Joe he would without the rings. He's not in the gold conversation without the rings. He's not in the gold conversation So you see out of it. He's out of it. It's not even a debate See for me, I don't put anybody I don't put if you look at my top five

My top five you have to have at least three regular season MVPs. That's how I took it. Three. So let me ask you a question. Yes. So he had the scoring title. Yes. But he wasn't able to win any rings or championships. He couldn't be considered. He wouldn't even close. He wouldn't even, they would know. Because he don't have any rings. He wouldn't even be in the conversation.

So how would you put in with no rings? Hold on. Ocho, think about this here. Is it different for football then? No. So the players that have a great that have never won a ring, does that mean they're not great? They're not in the conversation because it's a team game.

No, here's the thing. But here's the thing. When you look at quarterbacks, name a quarterback. It's Brady, Montana, it's Manny. Yeah. Now, see, and this is what we talk about the levels. This is what we talking about, goals. Because you can be great and not have rings.

You can. I believe that. I believe you can be great and not have rings You can I believe that I believe you can be great and not have ring Charles Barkley was a great player Okay, look at how we looked at Kevin Durant. Look at Scott. Not human. I take that back I'm talking about Kevin look at how we look that Kevin Garnett right before and then after he got that ring You see the difference? Look at how we look that look. Look at how we look at that. That's a tall, tall man. Look at how we look at Dirk Nowitzki before and after he got the ring. So my argument is, how would we be able to say LeBron is a goat with just two rings? When Kobe when Kobe has five, when Duncan has five, when Kareem has five, when Jordan has six,

when Magic has five, and all the guys that I mentioned are Jordan, Jordan has six, has five regular season MVPs, Magic has three regular season MVPs with three finals MVPs, so you're right, but I don't believe without Miami because here's the thing we saw. I believe and I think everybody out there believe had Kevin Durant got not gotten hurt in 2019, Toronto not beating them. No, absolutely not. But you see what could happen. You see what could happen. One injury changed the landscape. Yeah. You see what can happen? One injury changed the landscape. Yeah. You see what happened with Kevin Durant, with LeBron? Kyrie and Kevin Love got hurt. Changed the whole complexion of the series, didn't it?

Right. Kevin Durant and Brooklyn. Kyrie get hurt. James Harden dealing with a hamstring. You see how things gotta be? Now this is what we know from LeBron. He's averaged 25 points. He's never scored less than 25 points in the season since his rookie year. He averages 27, 7, and 7. I believe he goes anywhere else and

still averages 27, 7, and 7. But averaging 27, 7, and 7 ain't the same as what he did in Miami and when he got two more MVPs back to back, two more finals, MVPs back to back. It changed the way we looked at him. But I still, I'm telling you, I still think you, your, your knowledge of the game of basketball is much better than I am me as an outsider watching in. I think regardless of what LeBron tweeted, minus less rings, minus less rings my ass, I have a feeling that he could have went to any team, any NBA team, obviously with a supporting cast, an efficient supporting cast and done the

exact same thing he did in mine. I know he could have, I know he could have because he's that special of a player. He's that special. How do we know? Because remember it takes more than just scoring to win a title. A lot of the thing about it. Oh Joe speaks for itself. Oh Joe think about how close they came to losing the title. There was a Ray Allen backpedal behind the three. Three. The greatest shot in NBA history. Clutch. Just to survive. Right. So for us to sit here and say well he could have gone anywhere else and won anything is really not that simple Ocho. Not for a championship. Is it that simple for him to go somewhere and average 27-77 or the average 30 like he did for the Lakers

two years ago and like he averaged 29 last year? Sure. He's LeBron, he the GOAT. And I said, what made me put him there is that when I factored into regular season MVPs, I factored in the finals MVPs at three different stops. Now, Ocho, 30,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 10,000 assists, you factor in all the first team, all the MBAs, you factor in all the all-star appearances. You start factoring in all of that.

This is just not a longevity because there are a lot of guys that played, not a lot of guys, I think there are nine guys that played a total of 20 years or more, but they average him four points. He ain't gonna average four. He's gonna end up averaging what he, I don't know if he averaged 27, but he'll

probably be around 24, 25 points a game. And you're 21. Yeah. So I think the thing is Ocho, I think what the reason what caught people so far off guard is that this is a totally different audience ESPN than when I was at Undisputed. And if you watch me on Undisputed, you know that I've criticized some of the things LeBron has done. We had a play, some of the things that he's said. I think that people had this perception

that all I do is cape, cape, cape, cape, cape for LeBron. And that's not true. I don't believe any player, I don't believe any person is beyond reproach. I don't believe any player or any person is a beyond criticism because you have being who you are criticism comes along with it. Right. If you don't want the criticism, you should not take the praise. Yeah. LeBron is great. He's still in my estimation to go. But I believe it took that Miami stint to put him on the path. Now going back to Cleveland, going to

four more, winning an MVP, going to the Lakers, winning another finals MVP. And he's been dominant. He's been great. So they made it seem like I say LeBron was a bum man If he ain't go to look and it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Oh Joe Miami benefited LeBron benefited a lot of times we we just want to say nah you benefited But I like to think in a relationship no matter if it if it ended or not We both got something out of it, right? if it ended or not, we both got something out of it. Right. I like that.

That's just me. Now, sometimes we were like, I ain't getting nothing out of that. I ain't getting nothing. Right. Okay. I took something. Maybe if it wasn't nothing but a damn good meal, I got something out of it.

Right. But- That's a good one, man. That's a good one. But I'm telling you, I wholeheartedly believe he could have gone anywhere. That was, he came to the heat, what, was it 2012? 2011.

2010, cause they ended up losing. Cause think about it, Ocho, think about it now. For me, had he won 2011 against the Mavericks, I don't even think it's a debate. I don't think it's a debate. A lot of people can't put LeBron in front of Jordan for the simple fact of 2011. They said, I just can't think it's a debate. A lot of people can't put LeBron in front of Jordan for the simple fact of 2011. They said, I just can't do it

because I saw guys that Jordan would have scored 60 on. They're not putting JJ Barrera on Michael Jordan. They're not putting Deshaun Stevenson on Michael Jordan. And so a lot of people can't get over that hurdle there. But I believe it took all of that to get him to what we see now. The finished product that we see now happened because of the 2011. Yeah, but the finished product would have been the same regardless of where he was at because of who he is. Because of who he is, the finished product. You can't tell me, well, if he didn't come to the Miami Heat, the finished product. You can't tell me well if he didn't come to Miami Heat the finished product of what we're what we're witnessing now wouldn't be who he is. It would

still be the same guy. No but you're saying individually. See I'm not talking about individually. Yes I still believe he is. I'm talking about from a team aspect as well. I'm talking from a team aspect and having MPPs and championships if he went somewhere else. He's still done it. But think about Ocho. He's aver think about the Ocho he averaged probably looking at he averaged 30 29 last year right 28 29 last year 30 year before they win no titles I have a question I have a question this is something I don't

have in front of me he went to the heat in 2011 right yes yeah I wish I had the roster of the other team to choose from that he could have gone to and I guarantee you could put at least five or six other teams to get it going to and they would have been in the finals with an opportunity to win a championship and he had an opportunity to get those MVP finals. I guarantee you. I just don't have I don't have the information in front of me right now. Off the top of my head I think I can remember I know Miami was one he ended up going to Miami I think the Knicks but talking to Rich Paul Knicks were never really in play and I think Chicago. Oh yes. Yes and I'm not sure I'm not

sure the roster's but yes. Well you had at the time you had D-Rose you had Yo Kim Noah you had you had Taj Gibson yeah yeah because that year he won the MVP over LeBron. So you mean to tell me Jimmy Butler. Oh, championship, championship, MVP and a ring with the Bulls that year. Yes. Come on, man. But there's no, but about it. That's MVP championship. Trust me. And There's no but about it. That's an MVP championship.

Trust me. And it's not even a hypothetical. I put my life savings on that. If it was to happen, I wish we could rewind time. We can't though. We can't. Prime D-Roll, Jimmy Butler, Joe Kim Noah, and LeBron. You mean the champion that did not win no chip?

We never know. Have we seen? We do know. We do know. We've seen, Ocho, we've seen things happen. Just because you have the most talent, you've seen teams. Look, look at the Patriots. Patriots had the most talent. You remember in 2007? And the little old Giants barely made the playoffs.

Got him. I mean, who would have thought the Dallas Mavericks would have beaten the Miami Heat? Who would have thought the Detroit Pistons would have taken down Shaq and Kobe? Oh yeah. Think about that now. Hey them boy, that was Ben Wallace and them boys, huh? Ben, Shee, Rip, Chaunce, Tay-Shawn.

It'll play some defense, boy. See, and that's, and to see Ocho, that's what I say, you don't know. Right. Let's deal, the only thing I can say for certain, looking at LeBron James career, is that pencil in the man for 27, seven and seven, write it in the book.

And I'm writing it in non-erasasable ink. You can't erase it. That's what I know. But championships are a lot harder to come by. People keep talking about Jordan with six for six. Jordan played 15 years. So the other nine years he didn't get there. 25 years, 25 players. Before training camp kickstarts a new NFL season, NFL Daily is going to look back. It is a special six episode series where myself, Greg Rosenthal and some of the top NFL minds like Kevin Harlan, Mina Kimes and Bill Barnwell make the case for each player.

We're taking a look back, giving you NFL Daily's top 25 players of the last 25 years. So who made the list? You know, Tom Brady's on it. Where's Patrick Mahomes? Mahomes is into the end zone! Touchdown Kansas City! He's on it.

How about Lamar Jackson? Jackson takes it himself. Look at him dart back and forth. Oh, he broke his ankles and he's got a touchdown. He is Houdini! You are going to have to listen to find out, listen to NFL Daly's top 25 players of the last 25 years, starting on June 30th on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Right. You right. Well, I have a question. Since we're on the topic of basketball on something that I need to gain a little bit more knowledge about. Okay we're on the topic of basketball on something that I need to gain a little bit more knowledge about. Okay. What do the Lakers need?

Outside of Anthony Davis staying healthy, they need one more. One more star. They got to hit some, I mean, it's the first time I think in NBA history through the first eight games, they've made less field goals from the three and shot a little worse percentage. In NBA history, they instituted- It's still early though, it's still early. They instituted a three point line in 1979.

That was a year after you was born. That's when the three point line, Chris Ford made the very first three point shot. So think about that, go back, all the way back. They've been outscored by 74 points in the first quarter, which is the most in NBA history through this amount of games. Wait, score by, outscored by how much? 74. Hey, man, we got to go to a leaky game, man. How much, how much course size is? How much, how much course size is? You think somebody always want to go to the, you want to go to Miami Heat with Pat Roddick

with them 19, with them 1955 rules. Hey, listen, it ain't, it ain't, it ain't as bad as you think it is, man. People may listen when you look at the, look at the guys that go there. They have some of their best years of their careers when they go there. And look at the guys that go there, they have some of their best years of their careers when they go there. And look at the guys leave. I saw Dwayne Wade leave. I saw Jimmy Butler leave.

I saw LeBron James leave. Now that's three of the best players that you've had in the last 15 years. Now tell me what I don't know Q. What you don't know? What, what? Yeah. Hold on, hold on.

I'm gonna let him finish up. You can chime in after him Q. We all got family, right? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you get mad at your auntie or your uncle or your cousin or even your mom or your brother or sister, right? I like that.

I like where you're going. I ain't leaving him. They, hey, look, he didn't leave for good. He left and went over his auntie house and then he came back over here and back to uncle's house. He came back. I'm all right.

Okay, you think Jimmy coming back? I didn't say Jimmy came back. I was talking about D-Way when we said that. When we was talking. Oh yeah, okay, what about LeBron? LeBron going back to Miami? No, I said family. But I'm saying the mere fact that family left.

If I leave the house, yeah, I might come back when I'm on hard times. D-Way was a different type of family. Like D-Way was drafted, homegrown there. That's Dade County. And he left. You can't say the same for LeBron or Jimmy. So it wasn't that same type of thing.

Shoot, he left. And came back and they both admitted that it was some wrongdoings and reasons why they left. And they came together and pieced up and it was some wrongdoings and reasons why they left and they came together and pieced up and it's all love. Yeah. This is the man. This ain't mine.

It's all love. But I see D Wade is part owner in the Utah Jazz. He's sitting court side of the Utah Jazz. Why isn't he sitting court side at Miami? It's family now. No, no, no, time out, time out. D Wade do be sitting court side at Miami. He got a statue in Miami and he's a boss. Yes, and deserving the soul. A smart businessman. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, work, it can't, it go two ways though. You gotta understand that some of those same ways

that people being critical of are the reasons for some of the most brilliant careers that you talk about. The best version of LeBron James that you know was right there under those arcade rules. Tell me I'm wrong. I still like LeBron when he went back to Cleveland. No, you ask anybody in the league. That LeBron, Jack, them two years back to back, please.

Please. That was hell on wheels, boy. You hear me? Like, please. You talking about- Okay, let's say that. Okay, and then what made LeBron leave? Both sides.

Okay, that he had his best years. And then what made LeBron leave? Okay, he had his best years. And then what made LeBron leave? You got that? You were in the 27 game winning streak. What happened Q? I don't know. I didn't hear a lot of that. You know what happened?

D-Way said it, Doris Torres said it. Cookies being taken away. I heard about cookies being taken away. I didn't hear about all types of stuff. But I also heard that some of the same things that he ran from that he tried to take with him and bring it bestow on these other organizations

when he went there. So it wasn't all bad. You already, listen, you already know, Rich, Mav is gonna be there every day. Mav is my chief of staff. Not Mav, excuse me. What's the other one named? Randy.

Randy is gonna be there. Have you ever seen LeBron James anywhere without Randy? I have not. Whether it's out in Vegas, whether whatever the case may be, Randy is gonna be there. You know- So pass it and let him be there.

He gonna be there. If you want it, he gonna be there, don't want it. But you know, how long? You already know want it, he gonna be there, don't want it. But you know, hello, you already know what you, when you sign up, if you get Yannis, what, you see what the Yannis brother is? Where he at? Hey, time out, time out though. You just said you already know what you get

when you sign up, right? So you can't say that, and then say that LeBron came to Miami as a free agent, knowing that the Godfather was the Godfather and the Godfather do what the Godfather does that he always has. You signed up for that. I did, but not for to be petted

and take some damn cookies away. I ain't 10 and didn't clean up. You took cookies away like I didn't clean up my damn room. It could have been a headband, it could have been anything, but the cookies is what set it up. But like, this is what you signed up for when you signed up for Chris Bosh. I ain't signed up for this.

I signed up to come down here to get structure. I wanted to play with D-Way, Chris Bosh, and okay, spoke to with him. Got you two championships, and it showed you how to go on the rest of the way and be a champion. Yeah. Hold on, hold on. And we talk about the heat of the old.

Let's talk about the new heat. Let's talk about the new heat. And what's gonna happen? Pat, with the new heat, it doesn't matter. It's still Pat running it. You don't think they're about to get somebody? No. Yeah, I been telling you. With what?

I'm trying to tell you, Q. With what? I already know. That's what you, I'm trying to tell you. I already know. That's what you, that's what you, that's what people always understood and knew. Pat Riley, the Godfather is always one move away. He ain't got Kevin Durant yet.

He got Shaq and then they win their championship. Like they, he always willing to swing for the fences and do what needs to be done. But he don't have the draft capital to do it. What are you going to do? I think about it. He couldn't get Kevin Durant. He could get Dame Lillard.

So in order to get, well, let's just say for the sake of argument, Kevin Durant. What do you think it's gonna take for him to get Kevin Durant? He gonna have to give up the hero and bam, then what? Who could he get? Y'all understand?

I don't think so. I told you who we're going to get. I already told you already. I told you, I sat down you already. I told you, I think, Q, I sat down with Pat Riley and Mickey Harrison. I done told Robert Ori, I done told the ISO Joe, I done told Joe already, and I'm telling you, I'm telling you too.

I told the Pat, I sat down with Mickey Harrison, and we gonna get Yonis, we gonna get John Maran. I'm trying to figure out what are you, but see here's the thing. Listen, we gonna work with- They're only a handful of team that have the pieces. But they want assets because they gave up all those assets to get said players.

Q, you know how this thing work. A lot of times like, man, I want to go over there. And when you get there, they had to gut it to get you. And so now you there in the same situation you in, where you left from. They're not gonna be able to, I don't see how they get to Kevin Durant in Miami and keep Bam and Tyler Hero. Oh, you talking about, I want Duncan Robinson and Haas,

and Haas Smith? Hey, you'd be surprised what these deals shake out once these players step out and say that they wanna be moved. We've seen like guys ain't been like, been yielding what you thought. Like when you look at what Rudy Gobert got in his trade and didn't trade.

He got four first rounders. Yeah. What started happening after he did that? Nobody was getting all of them first rounders and it was looking how did like, how did Rudy get, you get Rudy for all of this and you'd get such and such for all of that. That it wasn't going the same way.

They're not giving this much up, especially when these teams, like when you get put in that pigeon hole, like a player come out and say, hey, I want out. Like you done, you done. Like, sure, we ain't gotta be at your back end call because we're basically helping you at this point

because your dude just said he want out. So no matter what happens, you gotta get out. Or your situation is blown up. So at that point, if they exhausted to a certain point, it'll get bad. See, I told you, huh? But here's the thing. Why it didn't get that bad?

Why it didn't get that bad? They couldn't make the pull the trigger for Dame Lillard. That question, I mean, I don't know the answer to that. I thought that was a done deal like everybody else. Cause they didn't want to give up Tyler Hero. I don't see a scenario where a team doesn't get Tyler Hero back as a piece. Do you see that scenario?

You never know, man. I didn't see a scenario on the planet where Dallas was trading Luka, but look what happened. Yeah. So I didn't learn my lesson. Like I didn't see Shaq get traded. You know what I'm saying? MJ left the bulls, like anything could happen.

In the right circumstances, they'll do whatever they feel is the best. That's just how it go. And then they gonna tell you that's good business. You know what I'm saying? It's what was best for the organization. That's why I don't be mad when players go do what they gotta do. I don't see it. People been taught, people been, Pat Rogers both had done had Kevin Durant. When Kevin Durant was a free agent, when Kevin Durant got traded, when Kevin Durant was a free agent and go to state, he't go he did a well LeBron there was no so he couldn't go there

okay when he became it when he goes to the Knicks I mean the Nats then what no Pat Riley he get traded in Phoenix still no Miami Heat at some point time on show you didn't give up oh Joe D-Way says the first moment he thought LeBron might leave Miami is when Pat Riley took his cookies. Let's take a listen to what D-Wade had to say. That was funny. This was the first moment where I had an inkling that LeBron may not be back.

One thing you don't do is f*** with LeBron cookies. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no's on the plane. But you know, he have his cookies. So we get on the plane and we play cards at the front of the plane, we play cards. And then at some point, Bronco be like, hey, bring me those cookies. And there's one day he was like, hey, where my cookies at? And they had to come up there and whisper in his ear and tell him there were no more cookies on the plane.

That setback. Away from the game. He pushed that table, that cards back. He sat there quiet. Doing his head like this. I was looking, I'm like. He didn't play cards no more. He sat there like this.

Hey. You see, you see what it, see then that calls Pat Riley. See Pat Riley's trying to try to show I run the show Not look at you. That's too much. You're doing too much You don't you mean to tell you mean to tell me you trying to prove a point so you take the man cookies 25 years 25 players before training camp kick starts a new season, NFL Daily is going to look back.

It is a special six episode series where myself, Greg Rosenthal and some of the top NFL minds like Kevin Harlan, Mina Kimes and Bill Barnwell make the case for each player. We're taking a look back giving you NFL Daily's top 25 players of the last 25 years. So who made the list? You know, Tom Brady's on it. Where's Patrick Mahomes? Mahomes is into the end zone! Touchdown, Kansas City! He's on it. How about Lamar Jackson? Jackson takes it himself. Look at him dart back and forth. Oh, he broke his ankles and he's got a touchdown. He is Houdini.

You are going to have to listen to find out, listen to NFL Daily's top 25 players of the last 25 years starting on June 30th on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, you never bother a person's, never bother a person's flow. In which way they travel, a routine in which they like to eat,

in which they like to prepare. You never do that. That has nothing to do with the game of basketball. I understand trying to set a precedent. I understand control, you know, but over abusing your power. Cookies, Ocho. Come on now.

You took the man's cookies. So, hey, I have a question. Do you think there's a chance, you think that might've been the last straw? Yes. Because there, look, there are some things that LeBron wanted like Maverick and Randy, potentially traveling on the planes,

having access like that he had in Cleveland, so forth and so on. like Maverick and Randy potentially traveling on the planes, having access like that he had in Cleveland, so forth and so on. We know Pat Riley limited that if he didn't mix it all together. Okay, fine. Probably, but here's the thing. You knew that when he came in there,

because LeBron's gonna lay out what he expects. When he went to the Lakers, he told Magic, Randy blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but we ain't gonna travel, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, Rich Paul, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, Maverick, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, okay, do you want, do, I'm sure when Tom Brady went to Tampa,

I need my guy to be here, I need him to have him be able to set up so forth and so on. Okay, you knew that. You knew that. You get the man there. It's almost like a recruiting visit. Oh yeah, you gonna start, you gonna start once I get your ass on campus,

you done signed that letter of intent. I do what the hell I wanna do. Now you can't do that anymore because them guys jump in the portal on your ass. Oh, excuse me. They jump in the portal on your tail, Ocho. And then you in trouble. But I don't get this.

Pat Riley, I mean, there are some things that he said about he was telling Phil Jackson and Phil Jackson, he got up like LeBron wanted to stay and then like for Thanksgiving, blah, blah, blah. And I just, but I can see now. I can see now. To do that, that's petty. That's you trying to show I run the show.

Yeah, I mean, see, and that's unnecessary because- Very. Think about LeBron staying a few extra years in Miami. How many more reigns do they get? But you sacrifice that because you want to prove a point in showing that you're in a position of power. And you want to over abuse it. And even now, there's stuff with Jimmy Butler. I'm not saying Jimmy's right. I'm not saying Pat is wrong because internally I'm not there.

But there's always an issue where there's a power struggle. it shouldn't be a power struggle. If you want to do one thing, everybody, the main thing should be the main thing. If you're part of the Miami Heat, Pat Riley's main goal should want to be winning championships and having the best team and the best pro league on the court to do so. Ocho, if cookies were the issue,

do you know how many cookies would be on that damn plane? Oh, I got you, yeah. Do you know? Yeah. What, where do you want the cookies from? Are these gourmet cookies that we need to go to a special shop or these regular chips, ahoy or some type of chocolate chip

that we can buy from a local grocery store? Right. I just need to know LeBron what it is because I promise you, there is not a superstar player in any sport. Let me ask you a question. If Shoaib Tani shows up and says, he wants something special,

they're gonna have, if he says there's a Japanese cuisine that I need to have before every game, and I need to make sure when we travel, I have it, I guarantee you they're gonna have it. Absolutely. If Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, if whatever superstar player, if Shay goes to OKC,

I don't know what the delicacy is in Oklahoma. I've only been there once. But I guarantee you, if Shay says, I want this on the plane, we're gonna have that. I mean, little old me, I said, Mike, we want to watch the fight. Mike would have it. Mike, we won't need this on the plane, we're gonna have that. I mean, little old me, I said, Mike, we wanna watch the fight. Mike would have it. Mike, we won't need this on the plane.

Mike would get it. You mean to tell me you took LeBron James cookies? For what? Right. If LeBron's overweight, I said, hey bro, you need to cut back on these. Right. When has LeBron James not been in shape?

We marvel at his body in year 22. Pause. We've done that since he was gotten to the league as an 18 year old rookie. Yeah, yeah. There's not a time that LeBron has not been in shape. Right. But like you said, this was a power trip.

Yeah. You won the battle, you lost the war, Pat. That's unfortunate. That's unfortunate. Now we don't even have a chance to come out east. I think we, matter of fact, we still coming out east. Go ahead. No, you're not. Y'all can't beat Boston.

Y'all can't beat Cleveland. Y'all can't beat the Knicks. What? We can't what? Beat Boston, Cleveland, or the Knicks? What? We can't what? Beat Boston, Cleveland, or the Knicks. Not in a seven game series. Y'all might win a game, but y'all ain't winning seven games.

Y'all not winning four games. I know, I just want to get excited. I just want to get excited. I know. We need two more pieces. And you heard how D Wade explains it. D Wade said he knew he was upset. Said that man pushed back from the table

and he didn't play cards no more. Yeah. Yeah. Don't mess up my routine. Don't mess up a routine that I'm probably, think about how long he, LeBron been doing that routine of having those cookies on that flight. Yes. Yes.

Man, let me get up outta here. And I mean, I've heard, D-Wade is not the first person that I've heard LeBron crazy about chocolate chip cookies. Right. And to do that, I thought that was petty. I think it was unnecessary, but I think it was Pat Riley trying to prove a point that I run this show,

and if I don't want no cookies on this plane, ain't gonna be no damn cookies on this plane. And LeBron says, you know what? You right. This your ish. Yeah, I take my show on the road. And he did exactly that. Shams is predicting that LeBron's next season

in the NBA will be his last, which will be a poetic end to number 23. Year 23 for number 23. They have the All-Star weekend in Los Angeles. So to me, it's a very storybook if that's the way it goes, but that's a decision he's gotta make. Rio, you just watched the man in year 22. Make second team all the NBA.

If he'd have made first team, I don't think anybody's mad if you put him in over Donovan Mitchell. Donovan got in, blessed. He averaged 24, eight and eight. He doesn't really have to do the heavy lifting anymore because of Luca. So he and AR are still there.

So now you put him in the dunker spot, you let him play off the ball. He's still going to be in the 20 points. How long do you think LeBron wants to play? How long is he going to play? I've always said he was going to play till Bryce got in the lead. So when Bryce goes to Arizona next year.

That'll be your 23. So in order for him to play with Bryce, he's got to be 24. 24, so I give him 24, 25. Yeah. And if you get 24, you got to might as of them. You might as well make it 25. It's like, I ain't worried about nobody getting 25 years. And if you get the 25, you might as well get 30

if nobody can hold up. Oh, shit. You might as well keep going. Because at 23, that'll be 41. 24, that'll be 42. 25, that'll be 43. That's the same age Tom Brady was when he retired. 20, you know.

25 years in one profession, that's legit. That's a lot. Man, you a dark-nosed lawyer, you get that many times, and you in the damn military. Right, exactly, so. You know, it's not only to play that long, but to be- Dominate that long, too. To play at that level.

Be consistent and be one of the best. The average 24 points a game in year 22. There are some guys that didn't average 24 points for a career. There are some guys that didn't, I mean, never had a season in which they averaged 24. This guy's in year 22 doing that. Right.

When you look at it, look, been around the game, your dad coached the game, so you've been around basketball all your life. What do you think is the most impressive thing that you've seen that Will LeBron is doing? Is it the year 22? Is it the ability to go out there and still give you average 24,

to go out there and give you a game where he can give you 30 average, you know, for a week, give you 30 straight, go get you 40. What do you think is the most impressive thing at this juncture? Look, all the 21 time first team all NBA, 21 times All-Star, so we get all that. But I'm talking about what you're witnessing now.

What do you think the most impressive thing that you've seen him, and you was with him for four years. You watched him every single day, come in, get shots up, run, cold tub, massage. You saw it all real. What do you think the most impressive thing that LeBron is doing currently? I always said that the way he took care of his body,

the way he paid attention to his treatment and stayed on schedule with that, that attested to his longevity and never really being hurt or having a major injury. So just the way his body is holding up, like his skillset is gonna be his skillset. He puts the work in, you see him putting the work in after games

or after practices, he's always the last one shooting or someone getting up shots or working on different moves. So the way, what he puts into the game is what he gets out. And also what he puts into his body is what he's getting out of his body. So to me, it's just the longevity of, you know, being that consistent of no injuries, no major injuries, bouncing back and still being healthy enough to do what you do and then do every day. You was with him, LeBron got there.

So you was there, you was with him 11, 12, 13, 14. Did you have, when you was there with him, did you have any idea that LeBron James would still be playing 12 years later? No, I did. Just because like, I tell people this all the time, Brown would really get treatment if he was in the club. Like he would literally have something on his knees or something on his back inside the club. So it's like, once somebody is doing that, like that's a real dedication to just be in the club with treatment.

Ice therapy or whatever. Hold on, real, this man got ice bags on his knees. He got ice bags on his back. Like the stem machine where it's like shooting electrolyte or electricity in your knees and stuff like that. Just hamstrings, like lower back. He always got something that's recovering, making his body recover. So that's the thing is like, once you see that, that's a different type of dedication.

Like I'm not, I have to take my hat off to that one. Yannis has now more first team all NBA selections than Kevin Durant. Yonis has seven, KD has six. What more does Yonis need to do to pass KD all time? I don't think it's possible. Really? I don't think it's possible.

Just because I look at KD's skillset, and like, there's nobody gonna be a skillset as KD, whether it be ball handling, be able to shoot the ball, better get to the spots he's gonna get to. I don't think there's gonna be another Greek freak either, but, you know, honestly, the offensive game is not polished enough like KD's for him to be better than KD.

So you just look at it aesthetically? I'm just looking at that. When I look at somebody, I say who's better than somebody, I look at, I put them in a one-on-one matchup and see who would dominate in that one-on-one matchup to a game to five. And I think KD would get Giannis five-four, five-three, maybe. I just got him figured, just obviously better.

Wow. What happens if Giannis gets the ball first? Same thing. I think KD still obviously better. Wow. What happens if Yonis gets the ball first? Same thing. I think Katie still figured out a way. I think Katie gets to stop before. How? 101? Because Yonis is all downhill. Now we're playing three or four dribbles.

Exactly. So how Katie stopped there? We're playing three or four dribbles downhill. Oh, okay. You know what I'm saying? We're playing different ways. Now you gotta tell me the rules. You gotta tell me the rules now.

Yeah, lame day players play, we play one-on-one three or four dribbles max. So in that type of set, I'm not taking Giannis over KD. I'm not taking too many people over KD in that type of set. Okay. Giannis has five first team, all defensive, four first team, KD has none.

KD does have two finals MVP, Yannis has one. It's, huh? No, Yannis has two regular season MVPs, KD has one. That's gonna be very interesting. That's gonna be very interesting when their careers- Yeah, he gonna have a hell of a career. Like that's that's the thing but it's still you're not better than Katie. I think I think you know what I think a lot of that has to do with

aesthetically because we like guys that can handle the ball uh uh shoe flashing. I mean there's nothing like really Yonah's game is really like old school. So like you know just trying to get down here post. I mean he's still I mean, there's nothing like really, Yannis Gamer is really like old school. Like the 70, you know, just trying to get down here, post, I mean, he is still, I mean, he don't, three point, he doesn't shoot that well. He ain't really got no mid range. His post is not great. He's basically getting downhill, laying the ball up,

you file him, or he's spinning dunk the ball. That's Yannis. It's still hard to stop because he's averaging 30, shoot 60% from the damn floor. So it's still hard to stop because he's averaging 30, 60% from the damn floor. So it's still hard to say. It's still a freak. It's just not as. It's still a freak.

I agree. It's just not as pleasing to the eye is what we watch KD do. And you compare in two different players and two different skill sets all together. At that point, regardless of accolades and what they've accomplished on their resume, it depends on it's all on preference at that point. regardless of accolades and what they've accomplished on their resume, it depends on, it's all on preference at that point. Yeah. I see that. I see that.

But who's impact, who's impacted the game more? Ooh, shit. Damn, they're the same almost, huh? Yeah, I think. That's a tough one right there. Because let me ask you this, if I take if I take KD out and put Yannis in there with Clay, Steph and Draymonds, do you still believe they win the NBA championships? Yeah. I, yeah, I still give it to him. I don't think about the scoring aspect, but yeah, I still give it to him because then that way you take, and your dog doesn't have to guard

Brown by himself. Now you got two or three bodies that can guard Brown and that's going to be a little bit different. So yeah, I still give it to go to state. Now, if I take KD and I put him on Milwaukee, the year they won, the we are, they won, they beat Phoenix. You think they still win the championship with KD and Giannis out? I mean, they barely got past Brooklyn. So, oh yeah, I think so. I definitely think so, KD. If he just step on that line, Milwaukee don't win that championship. That's gonna be, when it's all said done,

that's gonna be a very interesting conversation. That's gonna be a very, very interesting conversation to have because they are so diametrically different. Nothing about one's game reminds you of the other. One is, as you said Rio, is one of the most skilled players, one of the five most skilled players that we've probably ever seen with this size, being seven foot tall, being able to handle the ball.

He can shoot the three. He can got, he got the middie, he got the Hezzy. He can fit, get to the rim. He can fit free throws. He's a 88 89 percent free throw. So he's He's as skilled Because the guys that side they normally play center they play back to the basket We see no guys you and dirt can shoot the ball dirt was not putting it on the ball Going between his leg going between behind his back, doing what KD's doing. He just wasn't doing it.

I mean, Dirk had that Dirk patented that that one leg step back. He's shooting it. It's going to draw rain. But, and skill, I don't know if you're ever going gonna see a guy at his size and skilled as KD. His ability, because of just for his ability to shoot. LeBron responds to the No Bag comments in Mindy Game podcast and shuts up haters. He said, I see it all the time. I'll be on social media and it'd be like, LeBron has no bag.

LeBron has no bag. I'm sitting here with 50 billion points. That's it. That's all I got to say. LeBron has no bag. LeBron has no bag. I'm sitting here with 50 billion points. That's that's it. That's all I can say. But what does he go say about that? I mean, all these people that got bags, let me ask you a question of all the people that got bags, how many of them go have more points than LeBron?

Nobody. Nobody. Nobody. So I'm talking about whoever got the bag, whoever we think has a bag. Kyrie, James Harden, Steph Curry, who else we think got bags? Who gonna have that many points? Nobody. Hey listen, I don't think Michael Jordan had a bag like that.

When you talking about handles, he was just efficient. He wasn't, yeah, he wasn't as creative. He wasn't handling that thing like Kyrie and Steph Curry. But he was efficient, getting to his spots, and when he raised up the shoe, it wasn't having that thing like Kyle Ri and Steph Curry. He was efficient, getting to his spots. And when he raised up the shoe, it wasn't nothing you could do. You just had to hope he missed. Yep. But this isn't the end.

And I am a Jordan fan, right? So, you know, I respect the greatness of LeBron and the greatness of Kobe, right? Like why is it in basketball, we gotta tear down one to love the other? That's what debate television has done, J-O. When you pick one, you gotta holla, I gotta accentuate my guy,

while all the while addressing the flaws of your guy. And in addressing the flaws, it looks like I'm hating, but I'm just pointing out weaknesses in his game while accentuating the highs of my guy's game. Right. But Ocho, is it happening that way in football from a quarterback perspective? Yeah.

Yeah, yes. All the time. Because we, like Brady, Mahomes, we had paid manning. Yeah. You do that with once debate because you gotta pick a side. like Brady, Mahomes, we had Peyton Manning, yeah. You do that with once debate because you gotta pick a side. The days of like straddling the fifth, you used to be, well, I like them both. Now you can't, you can't be on TV.

You can't be on radio. You can't be on podcasts because people go to, well, hell, I could have said that. Right, right. Yeah, but I'm not saying no damn reels of Peyton and Brady versus Brady or whoever else, the way that you see it on Braun. Like I see it's like this. It's like, well, Jordan did this or this or LeBron didn't do this or vice versa, right?

It's like, you know, social media. I'm like, why is it? Why is that such a divide? It didn't used to be. It didn't used to be like that until debate television came along jail because there was never a situation where we were debating bird and magic like that. We didn't do it like it is.

But here's the fact prior to this, nobody had ever had what LeBron had the points, the rebounds, the assist, the all NBAs, the all stars, the MVPs, the finals MVPs. So nobody was really even close to really have a comparison because nobody had been a four time finals MVP. LeBron got that. Nobody had that many MVPs. So when you started and see Bigs,

we completely removed Bigs from the equation. Kareem got six for MVPs. Ain't nobody talk about Kareem. Russell got five. Chamberlain got. Ain't nobody talking about Kareem. Russell got five. Chamberlain got four. But nobody talking about the bigs because man, somebody got to get them the ball. The other guys that we talk about,

they can take the ball and do what they need to do themselves. So it's, that's where we are now. It's only in sports where you can have a comparable comparison because you don't see it in baseball. Ain't nobody being compared to Barry Bonds. Nobody being compared to Walter Johnson or Greg Maddox or all these great. It's just if for whatever reason, it's basketball and football.

Well, damn well, LeBron James, LeBron James, he. How many more years we gon' get, how many more years he played, J.O.? You give him one year, two year, or three years? I think he done after this year. You think he done after the year, okay, 23. You know, Bryce, Bryce could be eligible to come to the NBA.

If he do that, I'm a golden. If he can get both his kids in there, that first of all, that'd be amazing to be honest. But to just see that man play with his son to have that level of longevity, that consistency, to keep yourself together and still play at the highest of levels. Yes. You're not gonna see that again. You ain't gonna never see that again. That's historic, historic.

That's what I'm saying. You know, when you think about today's players, today's game, the type of money they making, like the grind that you got to put into that. You know what I mean? To have that type of longevity. I can't see it happening again, guys. They record, whenever he's done,

however many points he put up, man, it ain't nobody catching that. I don't see it either because I don't know if anybody, because he's been the one guy that's been able to play and avoid the big injury. Yeah. Everybody's had a knee. We see guys getting Achilles and things like that. JL LeBron James has been able to avoid that injury.

Yeah. Those type of injuries that sideline him for 50, 60 games or an entire season. Well, I say to see, y'all, y'all notice offhand, we talk about the physical ability and what it takes to put that together. But we know when we on the other side of the hill mentally and emotionally. Yeah, you see it coming. You know, talk yourself into you hurting body aching knees hurt. Yeah, yeah.

You don't even want to go to the bathroom jail. Your body hurt ankle the knees hurt so bad. Like I think I could, I think I could wait. What time is it? Yeah, I got another two hours in back away. Hey, I ain't walk barefoot in almost 18 years. I put out a walk barefoot. You know, I hurt too bad. Yeah, I got I got I walk around with crocs or sandals in my house. I can't I got a I walk around with crops or

saddles in my house. I can't put my beer in it. Hey, I ache. Who are the 25 greatest football players to grace the gridiron since the year 2000, introducing NFL Daily's top 25 players of the last 25 years? Join me, Greg Rosenthal, and an all-star cast of media personalities including Mina Keim, Steve Weisch, Kevin Harlan, and more for a look at football's best since the turn of the century. Listen to NFL Daily's top 25 players of the last 25 years starting on June 30th on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.