Club Shay Shay - Best of NFL News Part 2: Browns DODGE Shedeur, Jets STRUGGLE, Richardson DISSED?!

Episode Date: November 1, 2025

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson break down a WILD week in the NFL! Unc and Ocho react to Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski avoiding questions about Shedeur Sanders, Jonathan Taylor praising Daniel Jones while taking subtle shots at Anthony Richardson, and why the Jets’ ownership—not Justin Fields—is the real problem in New York. 0:00 - Kevin Stefanski dodges Shedeur Sanders question15:45 - Carson Wentz season ending surgery32:29 - Jonathan Taylor praises Daniel Jones but lowkey shade towards Anthony Richardson?46:55 - Eagles interested in pursuing Myles Garrett trad (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The Browns bench Joe Flacco after one and three stint as a starter. Rookie Dylan Gabriel is one and three. Many in Cleveland are wondering if Shadur Sanders now deserve its own shot. Well today, Kevin Stafansky was asked by Mary Kay Cabot whether he's considering the possibility of playing Shadour.

His response, the focus is where we are right now, Mary Kay, that's not my focus. guys can we stop asking these questions y'all know this man don't want to place your door you know that you know people we know that and people i see people you know um in the chat not not in the chat but just in general when we talk about the clean the brown they talk about oh it's um it's uh damn what's the word uh when they don't like someone and they um how they they're doing them wrong i forgot the word to use but listen we already know what the play was we already know what the play was they didn't want him It was Drew Barry, no, Andrew Barry.

Andrew. It was Andrew Barry's pick. It wasn't the owner. It wasn't the fancy. So this is exactly what they want. This is exactly what they want. It seemed as if someone forced their hand to take this pick and they don't want to give them an opportunity to play the game.

From the small sample size that we've seen from Dylan Gabriel, he has now had he played four games. They're one and three. He won't push the ball down the field. It's hard. You can't run the ball. And all you do is that you show. You fish from, you short fish.

Because the big fish, the big fish don't swim close along the shore. They're out in the deep. And so to get points, you got to push the ball down the field at some point. Yeah, well, maybe he's not that comfortable doing just that yet. Because we saw him push the ball down the field in the goddamn preseason. We saw him push the ball down the field. I saw him throw short balls. I saw him throw eating meated.

I saw him throw dig routes. I didn't really see him throwing anything deep. but I think there's a certain level of uncomfortability that they don't have because offensively they're not calling a play for him to push the ball down the field because obviously maybe that's not what he's good at. That's the only day I think of because if he was good at doing it, you will call the plays that call for him to do just that, what we're asking of in order for you to win games. He's not giving the Browns their best chance to win games.

And the fact that Kevin Stefansky understand that my job is on the line because this is the guy I stood up on the table for and who I wanted to. make, you know, the start of our team. At some point, you're going to lose the locker room, too, huh? Yeah. And you're going to lose the locker room. We just take the right person to say something.

Denzel Ward, a Miles Garrett, you know, your captains, you'd be like, listen, we need to do something. I mean, to see Miles Garrett frustrated like that, the way he was, understanding that offensively, we're not getting it done, knowing

the check needs to be made. I mean, but I think that's a hill that Kevin's the fan. is willing to die on because this is my guy. And he knows, I mean, his job ain't in jeopardy. He's now in the hot seat. He's not in the hot seat. So.

You don't think so? No, hell no. Absolutely not. Joe Flacco training camp completion percentage was 58.7 in his first, in his fourth start, he was at 69%. Then he went to 56%, 58, and his last game was the start. He was 47%. Um

Hey somebody in the chat Funny as hell To be like yeah Gabriel did throw it down the field But the guy intercepted I look Man look I'm just tired of like

Man push your door in man They don't seem As interested in putting Shudor in as we're interested In seeing him And who knows What would happen if he got in there But I think we want to see what it would happen

Yeah Yeah My thing is he's like Well he didn't play He wasn't even the number two. Bailey Zaffrey was the number two on Sunday, so he had to deal it with a back injury. Well, how do you just standing on the sideline

so I could get why his back with tight? Hold on. How he had a back surgery, but he was out there throwing balls in pregame. I'm just saying that's out there warming up throwing. Look, you know, ain't nothing wrong with him. The same way it ain't nothing wrong with J.J. McCarthy. There's nothing wrong with him.

This is just the game that they do play. If you understand the game and understand what they will do and with their report, knowing that there's nothing wrong with you to cover there, you know what, and get us on the outside to shut up. But listen, I played the game. I understand some of the things that you will do when you don't really want a person to actually be in the game and contribute. You don't want to look wrong.

You don't want to be wrong in the decisions that you've made. Of course you're not going to play him because, you know, he probably will go in there and succeed. Shador Sanders works and operates very well. in a chaotic environment. And that's the environment that has been created for him because of who he is. And obviously, also because they didn't want him.

But he will operate very well in the type environment. And they don't want that to happen. So what do we do? We say he's hurt. His back is messed up. You tell the reporter, Kempstaffa says, hey, don't ask me the focus is what it is right now. It's Dillon Gabriel and doing everything we can

and make sure he improves week to week. but the clock the ticking because the next thing that's going to happen it ain't going to be the reporter saying something and asking questions it's going to be the own players in your locker room Dylan Gabriel his training count completion percentage was 55%

and his four starts he was at 58% 56% 72% 60% So it looks like he's right about where he was in training camp And because they're, they don't have the best playmakers. They don't have, they don't have the Detroit skill position players. They don't have Green Bay skill position players.

They don't have Sincis. They don't have a CD and pick. That's not what they have. So when you don't have that level of talent on the outside and you have a marginal quarterback, what do you think you're going to get? But listen, you know what? Then the onus, the onus at that point is on the officer coordinator. Who's calling the plays?

Mr. Reiki. Okay. Well, listen, I understand I have a quarterback right here in Dillon and Gabriel. There are certain weaknesses that he does have. I have in Jukun, Tillman, Jerry Judy. I know what they can do. I know what they can do. I know what their strengths are.

How can I put them in the positions, creatively, creativity in a creative way. Creatively. Yeah, creatively. What's wrong with me? I'm talking too damn fast. Creatively to hide some of the things and the flaws that Dylan Gabriel is not good at. So now you can't make him grow four inches. So you can't do anything about that. You can't make him have a stronger arm.

You can't do anything about that. No. Your offensive line is not the best. there's not anything you can do about that because you have what you have. So I don't really know where you, I don't know how much better it can get for the Browns based on what you have currently. Yeah. I, listen, I don't know.

I'm all, I'm all a lot of suggestions. I mean, everyone else has suggested, you know, do this, do that. What everybody wanted, they got, you got what you wanted. You got your quarterback. You got Joe Flacco going. Now having success, you know, in the air, throwing to, two of the greatest, the greatest duo in the NFL. Now Dylan Gabriel is your quarterback,

but you're still in the same, you're still in the same place. You still in the same position? You think, you think your duo better than Dallas a duo? Come again, ask me, ask me that one more time? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before you ask me, think about what you're asking me,

then ask me again, then ask me real. I will ask you, do you believe that your duo is better than Dallas's duo? Well, not only do I believe that our duo is better than Dallas's duo but it's it's we're we are better we are better as a whole

and this is no disrespect to CDN pick but they right below us and it's close too you hear me? Yeah he right is close I mean let me stay with me now it's close but because of Jamar Chase it edges us out and T T.T is very good you know George Pickin can do what T. Higgins does

yeah I think you do a little better. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I think so bad. They're about equivalent. Now, he can go up and get it, you know. Teak get running the routes, them 50-50 ball turn 80-20 when it's them two.

Yeah. And the thing I like about PIC is PIC is angry. He gets his ball, hands on the ball. He's like, you got to tackle me. I ain't going down. I ain't running out of bounds. You're going to have a tackle me. Yeah.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I love that. And I love the focus that I've seen from here. him since he's arrived in Dallas. I love that. I love that. I told me,

I was a simple comment post. Shadour has been liking IG post today that are calling for him to start for the Browns after the by week. We'll see. Whatever you got to do. Whatever, whatever you got to do. And obviously, going into the buy week,

this is the Brown's by week, right? Yes. They definitely not. They definitely not going to name to start doing the buy week. But we're going to see what happens. We're going to give Dylan Gabriel another week, another week to get to get better to improve himself based on what he's done so far with the four stars he's had. I wonder who they

got coming out to buy on. That's as you to have coming out of the buy. Oh, man. And my thing is, Ocho, is that, no, you don't have to do anything. It's just like, who? They got the Jets coming out of the buy. ain't no telling. I think that's as good as good as any time to let your door start. What, in the Jess?

Yeah. Yeah, I think Dylan Gabriel will be to start against the Jets. Ain't no telling. Jess might come out there and Maliwap Day, you know what? Oh, they already beat y'all, so they got confidence, nah.

Don't do that. Don't do that. Let's not bring up the past. Let's not bring up the past. Let's look forward. Because in the Bible, it said, do not look that behind you, therefore, so you can see where you go with.

I don't know your eyes closed the way to beat y'all up. You know, look, there's only so much because I think the thing is I think for the most part he's done, he's saying all the right things. I'm going to support Dylan, you know, hey, he, you know, we're in that room.

I think everybody, when Joe is in the room, I think she do her saying all the right things. I think he's been coached up. I think he's been groomed to play that position to say all the right things because you are corporate when you're in that position but I think deep down

he believes he's better than Dylan Gabriel. You know he believed that. Every player that has competition at a Pacific position believes they're better than the person that's in front of. Yeah. And unfortunately y'all won't

he said unfortunately y'all won't give me an opportunity to show you that I'm better. I mean there's only one way there's only one way to prove it. Give him go let him go out there and give him four stars, and let's see.

I think the thing is, Ocho, I think they're going to let this thing with Dylan Gabriel go a little longer for the simple fact you don't want to play. You've already moved on from Joe Flacco. Joe Flacco got four starts. Are we really trying to get Dylan Gabriel four stars? Okay, give Shadoor four stars.

It don't work out with Shadoor, go back to Dillon Gabor. It don't work out with Dillon Gabor or go back to Shadoo. I don't know if that's where you want to be at, Ocho. I don't. I don't think that's where you want to be. Listen, listen, the Fanski is in a tough position, now. He's in a tough position.

Damn, if you do, damn. if you don't. Yeah, basically that's exactly what it is. But I think it's okay for them to have a quarterback carousel and being able to make those changes when necessary because you need to find out what you need to do for the foresee of your future. They're probably going to go back into,

they're probably going to go back in the draft and get a quarterback. But I mean, looking at the quarterbacks, I'm looking around college right now, I don't see anybody, I don't see anybody that's blowing my socks. I'm like, oh, I got to get them. I got to have him. And I'm glad you just say that because obviously everything at the quarterback level,

there's been some great quarterback play in college football, but there's nothing that's going to come to the Cleveland Browns and be like, oh, shoot, we found the one. There's nobody. Cleveland's more than a player away to Ochoo. That's the problem. They're more than a player away. Wait a minute.

But they're more than a player away, but if they can get the right quarterback, which is the problem for the past now, 36 years, then you're a little closer to where you want to get to. But you can't even get past. you can't even get past step one. No. Even if you had the quarterback. You had the quarterback.

You just needed to get some pieces around and let him heal. Yeah. But, you know, the damage was done. You, you know, I guess conversation, you know, he felt like they wanted him to be something that he wasn't. They wanted him to be more buttoned up, more structured.

And he's a guy that he wants to dance. He cool with the locker room. The guys like him. And so that wasn't their cup or tea. well if the guy's going to win damn your cup of tea I'm trying to win yeah it's all that matters at the end of the day

the specific for quarterbacks is based on wins wins and losses yes so we'll see how this thing plays out I think you know Cleveland goes quiet for a minute there's no games there's nothing to report

I don't know how much they're going to oh they get the whole week off of the by week. They're gone. What you mean gone? They're practicing. They ain't practicing? You got to get the week off.

Wait, they change the rules or something? Yeah. As, look up and see, I think that's a rule. You get the whole week off. Oh, man, I ain't never see. Man, what? No, hell no. We got Thursday.

Man, we got Friday, we normally we got Friday, Saturday, Sunday off. We had a half day Thursday. If everything went good, you know, we got a half day Thursday. But it would, I hope. Now, we got a week in Baltimore, but Mike Shanahan went playing that. I don't know. I was like, damn. I was like, man, they, man, such a something.

Yeah, we got the week in the whole week off. I'm like, well, damn, we ain't got no week off. They get the whole week off, yeah. That's crazy. So they got to do any work they want to do all by yourself. But obviously, during the by week, you want to get away from football. Yeah. You want to reset mentally.

You want to reset mentally, get yourself away from anything football-related. Go home. you know, getting your game. I mean, just do whatever to detach from the game of football in your bi-week. That's the point of it. And when you do come back, you be ready to hit it.

You're ready to hit it. All I know is I heal a lot of my own injuries. You're nothing to keep me here on the biweek because I got something. I'm Nick. Oh, hell. You good, yep. They sell a lot at the convenience store.

Your ice don't have medicine. The only other you got you got that rabbit turret ice. I got to get that cube dice. It's all the same. Yeah. It all does the same. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down.

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we give you the full picture. If you want insight that goes beyond the box score, this podcast is for you. Don't miss it. Listen to the Move the Six podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In this day. Back in quarterback Carson wins is set that undergoes season ending shoulder surgery on his non-throwing shoulder, Ocho, and will be placed on injured reserve. J.J. McCarthy began the season as the starter, but who has missed the last six game with a high ankle sprain. He's expected to play Sunday in Detroit.

The only backup Minnesota roster is undrafted rookie Max Brosmer. J.J. is not, uh-uh. Yeah, exactly. He was undrafted, so you know even less about him. J.J. McCarthy has not only played two of 24 regular season games since he was drafted with the number 10 pick in the 2024 draft. Oh, Joe? How bad are the Vikings missing Sam Darnock?

Listen, they're missing Sam Donald very, very much so, very much so. Listen, the way Sam Donald played last year, I still, for the life of me, can't understand why you let him walk out that door. I just don't understand for the life of me and not knowing what you were getting with JJ McCarthy. I understand he was a high round pick. I know what he did in Michigan. I get that. But listen, there's no problem with him sitting behind and learning from Sam Donald with the way he played last year. You don't let a quarterback, as hard as it is to come by quarterbacks, that you can find that can,

maximize everything you want to do offensively. He did everything well. He didn't look like the Sam Donald with the Jets. He didn't look like to Sam Donald and God damn Carolina. But for some reason, everything in Minnesota, it looked good. He looked very good. Similar to how

Daniel Jones looked with the goddamn Indianapolis Colts, like a completely different person. Oh, yeah. A completely different person. And the same person that still carry it on right now in Seattle. He still was a thing. Yes. Yes. And now you're struggling Now you're having quarterback roles, and he didn't know what to do.

And I think they're not playing J.J. McCarthy on purpose. Ain't, it can't be nothing wrong with him, huh? Can't them be? I mean, he was out a long time with a high ankle sprain. Normally guys were getting back in three high end four weeks. This would be six weeks that he's missed. I'm just saying, you're right. You know, Goodwill ain't nothing wrong with that ankle.

Ain't nothing wrong with that ankle. You know that. Boy, Jay, hey, Justin Jefferson? Boy, he's going to cut up this week. You hear me? but let things don't go right let things don't go the way they should be you know they love they love calling players divas and all this that are passionate and want to win and understand that in order for me to have success in order for us to have team success we got to have the most important position have a good person a good player with the ball and we don't have that hey them great players that we all love they start to act up now Are you laughing? They love the, I'm not sure with that, with that term diva came from.

I'm not sure, you know. But, you know, when certain, when certain- It came from y'all misbehaving? Yeah, hey, we don't misbehave. We're just passionate about the position that we do play. What did y'all call it? Yeah, we like to show a little enthusiasm, you know, a little energy. You know, when we do it, it's called divas.

When they do it, it's called, what's the word? Passion. Huh? called passion. Yeah, it's called, yeah, yeah, you know, the word, the definition changed depending on the, let me, I'm not going to go there. It's been reported that went

tore his labrum and dislocated his shoulder in week five and they still played. Let that sink in. So he's got a torn labrum and his non-throwing shoulder and it's dislocated. So you're asking him to play through that. Yeah.

You got a guy that you took with the number 10 pick last year that you were so set that he was going to be your guy that you let a guy walk out the door that had thrown like 30 plus, high 30 touchdown for you. I think fewer than 15 interception

if I'm not mistaken. So you let that guy walk out the door, but now you got a guy that's a journeyman. He's turned into a gentleman. Yes, he was the number two picking the draft. And yeah, he had a nice three-year run and it all fell apart. And he's bounced around every sense.

But so now he's a journeyman quarterback. You're willing to keep a journeyman, you're willing to ask a journeyman with a torn laborman what's being reported. I don't know. I'm just reading what's being reported. You're asking a guy that's a journeyman quarterback that has a torn laborer and a dislocated non-throwing shoulder

to go out there and gut it up instead of putting a guy out there that was a high draft pick that you believe so much in, a guy that you saw go through the totality of a season and play exceptionally well. You let him walk out the door. I know what Sam Donner looks like before he left might have left a bad tasting a lot of people's mouths

but the position he put you in in the regular season to even be in contention to be in the playoffs it was phenomenal. It was a great run and it was a kind of run where you bring someone like that back who gives you a chance. He puts you in position he allows you to maximize what you want to do

offensively with his decision-making and chemistry that he built with Hogginson, Addison, and Justin Jefferson. You don't let that walk out the door because now you have a situation like you do now where we're saying

goddamn JJ McCarthy has been injured on the sideline with a high angle springing for six weeks. I know that's a lot. I know the devil is a lot. Somebody lying, I don't know who it is because now you're not sure.

Now you really don't want to put him out there based on what you saw already when he was, when he had the opportunity to get out there, it didn't look like it should. doesn't look like you guys made the right choice. So now you're relying on Carson Wentz to save the day. Yeah. Look, and he,

look, Ocho, he's on in his second year, so he could get better. But I have my questions about him because they ran the ball way more at Michigan than they threw it. So I was always like, okay, what happens when they're going to require you to throw the ball? The days of you just being able to run

the football, you've got to throw it in this league. I don't care who you are. They're going to come a time that you're going to have to, and more time than not you're going to need to throw the football. And so I was always a little leery on that part. Now, I will say this. Look, I thought they could have kept Sam Darnel, but I

knew they wouldn't keep Sam Darnel for the simple fact of the money and they tied up into J.J. McCarthy. He was the number 10 pick in the draft, Ojo. But it wasn't a lot of money. Now, if Minnesota had back the Brink's truck up and said, okay, we got 40, we got 40, 45, 50 million.

I get Minnesota. but this is a very digestible contract. This was almost like a Baker-Mayfield contract. Yes. $30 million is the lower level of a starting quarterback. Yep. And so I was a little surprised that they didn't go to 30, that they didn't look, at least for another year or two.

Hell, if, and I get it, this is not a very fair assessment, but your love rode the bench. Now, he's backing up somebody much more substantial and proven, but he's side his ass on the bench. Aaron Rogers sought the bench. So there's no harm in that. And look, if Sam Darner doesn't make it this year, but Sam Darner is not old,

Sam Dahl is 26. So if he continues to play well, hell, I'll move on from J.J. McCarthy. Yeah. I'll ship his ass out. Yeah. Because J.J. McCarthy is what? How much younger is J.J. McCarthy than Sam Darno, Ash?

Because I think Sam Donald is 26 years of age. so it's not like he's 30 32 and plus you're dealing with a quarterback so they they you know they like dog years that 20 that 26 is really like 14 oh yeah so it's not like other positions how old is j j jay mccarthy and how old is sam darnall Okay, Sam Dahl is 28, Jake, McCarthy is 22. Only 22? 22, yeah. Oh, man, listen, I'm not a GM. I'm not an owner. But I understand, I know who gives out our best chance to win.

And I'm not gambling. Regardless of him being the number 10 pick, there's no problem with him sitting he has a team-friendly contract. Even being the number six, I'm not. I'm bringing Donald back and giving him that lower tier, no disrespect. I'm speaking in football terms of quarterback money to see what he can do for us the next two or three years.

At least the next two because I really don't have to make a decision on on JJ McCarthy-Ocho until year four going into year five. I've got to make a decision. So I don't have to do a deal with him. I mean, obviously guys that are playing get deals done after their third year

if they're that guy. So I get that. But theoretically, I can go into year four. Says, okay, I've gotten two years of Sam Donald. I think we've maxed him out. Okay, JJ,

I'm going to give you a year to approve it. And then, hey, but I'm not in a situation, but I think the thing is, Ocho, going into that year,

that year four, now I've got to pick up his fifth year option. Yeah. And one thing about it, too, you know what I don't like? you know i think it's the perfect situation for him you played at michigan so you used to be in that type of environment obviously you come from a school where you ran the ball you know a high

percentage of the time but you're a quarterback you're a quarterback you're in the NFL now and if you can't throw the ball to Jordan addison hoggison and justin jefferson you don't be long you you just don't oh yeah there's what you just don't be long because that's one of the better receiving cores in the NFL and even if even if even if you can't bring yourself to their level of play, they're so good, they can hide whatever weaknesses you do have as a quarterback. And the fact that he can't play going into week six and we talk about it's still an ankle sprain, something ain't right. And it damn sure no high angle spring. That's not it. I mean, we know that. And I'm not sure what they're trying to hide,

but whatever weaknesses that he may have as a quarterback, they have to find a way to hide it because you have the players around him that can hide it. You have the players around them can hide it. Well, I think the thing is, Ocho, you can only hide it for so long. It's like an Easter egg. They might not fight it, but somebody's going to find them eggs. So whatever your weakness is, as a quarterback, Ocho, we're going to find it sooner or later. Because as long as you continue to play, we're going to find out where you weak at. That's just how it's just how it is.

And so I agree with you. I just knew, based on the NFL, the number 10 pick, they really like this guy that. But, and also, I don't know if it's true, it's like reports that he wanted to be guaranteed a starting job. Seattle guaranteed him a starting job. Okay. But you talk about San Donald.

Oh, okay, okay, okay. And so under those circumstances, but it's hard for me to believe, Ocho, somebody going to pay you $30 million and you don't start. Yeah. Okay. And there aren't very many places that he could have gone to after he left Minnesota where they weren't going to guarantee him the starting job. It wasn't anybody there, you're going to have to look over your shoulder

and understand, okay, their pressure is on me. If I don't play well, they're probably going to put this guy in. you're in a great you're in a great spot i think minnesota would have been a great spot for him to come back i'm not sure what management was thinking i do there's a reason why i'm not the gym there's a reason why i'm not an owner because that's you know the choice of decision i would have made and now he's in seattle and he's flourishing he is flursing he is he is i'm having a effing ball yeah they they and i think ocho when they moved on for they moved on from gino um now you look at a situation, they moved on

from D.K., they moved on from Lockett. It seems like Lockett went to Tennessee. Now he's going to be reunited with Pete Carroll and Gino and Los Vegas. Maybe a lot of people like, man, what do they have? They got Jackson Smith and Jigba. They got J.S.N. And he is

phenomenal. And listen, what we can do as well, because he's not too far removed from winning a Triple Crown, I love Cuba Cup. He might not be the Cooper Cup of old. Yeah. Cooper Cup at this.

He can still make plays. He can still, he's still one of the better route runners, one of the better creatives of what I like to say, artistry when it comes to running routes. Yeah. He's still one of those, despite what people make things. He's just not, he's not going to be used like that. That's not Sean McVeigh system. Sean McVeigh, if you look at the way Sean McVeigh used Cooper Cup, you look at the way

Sean McVeigh used Pooka Nacua. Yeah. That's not what he is. They're not going to use him like that because first he's not the number one. That's JSCN. Yes. So now the JSCN, he's going to get the favorable. He's going to get the favorable play calls.

He's going to be the first target. And so, but if you go back and look at it, Ocho, I think Cooper Cup only had one 1,000 yard receiving season. That was the Triple Crown season season. That's funny how that works, right? That's funny. And I saw that before with understanding, well, damn, you won the Triple Crown.

And I remember going back and looking at some of the, numbers. Me and T. T. T. T. Hushman Zada were talking about at one point, and he told me, well, go look at all the stats from before that. And it's unbelievable with the right system, with the right coach, and putting you in the right position to make certain

plays, they can manipulate the offense to where you can succeed no matter what. No matter what. You can do it. And obviously, when it was time to work and wiggle him out that system, here comes Pooving the Kua. Yeah. You draft players. You need smart players.

those guys on the bigger side. They're not your typical slot. You look at Pooka. You look at Cooper Cup. They're not these, they're not Julian Edelman. They're not the West Welkers. They're not your typical slot receivers.

They're on the bigger size, which means they're going to have to be able to take more punishment because when you catch that many balls, Ocho, you've got to get a damn assload of targets. Because Cooper Cup caught 140-something balls. That means he's 19,200 targets. 1,900 and what? 130 yard receiving yards he was well over 2,000 he was probably he was damn near 200 catches on the season when you tally up what he did in the postseason right and you look at the yardage he was well he was like I think he was like 23 2400 receiving yards

he is Christ and you look at what he did in the playoff games so he probably had another 30 another 30 plus catches so you figure to tackle another 30 35 catches with with another 45, 50 targets. Now you see, hell, he might have had 230, 250 targets. And call the 190 of them. When I think about it like that, as dynamic of a playmaker as he was, I would always sit back and hypothetically think, damn, I wonder what my numbers would look like in that situation. Being that, you know, but we're, we're, we're, we're, we're,

there's a lot of punishment, oh, Joe. Huh? That's a lot of punishment. Hey, I, I could take punishment. You know, I ain't got no problem going across that middle and doing some of the things that really made me uncomfortable. I can say, they didn't tell you now. I mean, I wasn't comfortable, you know, sitting there running screens.

I don't like that. I like to be having a somewhat of a... No, you're not going to catch that many balls getting pushed down the field, little, Joe. They can't throw that big of the ball pushing you out of the field. Not no, not no hundred and, you know, he caught 140-something balls. So think about how many, how many, how many screens, bubble screens that he actually caught.

I don't like that. How many, how many, how many, how many, how many, how many, little smoke routes. Yeah, I don't like those on. I'm going to be honest with you. It gives me a certain level of uncertainty, a certain level of uncomfortability with me not being able to have my eyes on what's in front of me and me have the focus on the ball. Now, having a run route and understanding being able to read defenses and knowing where everybody's going to be and with their job and knowing when I can get out of breaks, I can protect myself. I know what's coming. I know where you're coming from. I know where the pursuit is coming from. But having to

turn real quick and everybody got eyes on me like I'm a damn pump return that makes me uncomfortable. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I'm loud. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock Elite Gaming Tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless

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Through the first eight weeks of the season, the Colts and Daniel Jones have been the biggest surprise. With Andy Sign Jones this offseason, he was widely viewed as another option behind 2023, number four pick, Anthony Richardson, but Jonathan Taylor realized the job with Jones after the first practice. When he first got in the training camp and he called check, that's in the playbook. But if you've been here, one of those checks that's like, oh yeah, we call that sometimes. The fact that he called it is like, did this guy have the playbook six months ago?

That's what I understood. Oh, okay, his level of preparation is different for him to come in day one, day two, and make that call, make that check. he's been studying. It's day one of installed, and he's already that far ahead. I'm like, this guy is legit. Yes, sir.

I don't know how. I'm going to ask you. I know how I took that. I know how I took that. He didn't say it. He heeping praise. But that was a, I think that was a shot at the, go ahead, but you go ahead. What you think?

I think players don't intend to take shots at other individuals that play the same position when praising another. I think he's just praising the fact that Daniel Jones was so well-informed

with the offense to have already been there. To know it the way to know it, the ends and outs and the nuances of it after just getting there and like, well, godly.

We also have to understand what Daniel Jones is fighting for it. He's fighting for a job, an opportunity to start after leaving some way. it just didn't work. And maybe this could have been a good thing

for Anthony Richards in the seat. Okay, now I have a better understanding or what I need to do, the way to conduct myself not only as a pro, but as quarterback number one, well, was quarterback number one of a team. This is the stuff I needed to do.

Make sure I succeeded, not just in the classroom, not just in practice, but the results of doing so and putting the work in is going to show up on Sundays where it mattered most. I don't think

Jonathan Taylor was intentionally trying to take a swipe at Anthony Richardson he was heaping praise but in the process of heaping praise people are going to look like well damn he just got there a month ago and you got a quarterback that's been there for two years

and he never did anything like this and he had the playbook so that's the thing no Ocho no was he out there trying to say well hey we've heard story he used the first elite first year or used the last end the first out they benched it for a reason but that's what i mean the quarterback the preparation has to be so intense and if you and a lot of times that's why they go ahead and get married because they like i can't be out there i need to be

home i need to be in front of this projector and i need to i well an ipad not ocho and i need to be going through and i need my mind focused on i need home and so they're going to go going over and over and over and over. I told you from day one. And once I saw what he was getting paid, I said, well, he's going to be started. I'm not even sure when I saw that, too. Obviously, it's just having common sense

and understanding the game, understanding the business at that. Yep. Damn, it. And the thing was, what Joe, what I didn't understand, if you got a project, okay, somebody say, you got a project car, or you got a project home,

Oh, so you don't try to drive the car. You say you got to fix something. You got a project. It's going to take work. It's going to take you six months. It's going to take you a year to get it operational. You got a project home. You're like, oh, man, I got this home.

I bought this home, but I'm going to fix it up. You don't try to live in it. You said this guy was a project. He had immense talent and he does. And you start him? What changed? Just go back and look at his tape from high, school look at his tape from college

and you tell me this man should have been a starter from day one? No, Ocho, no. You did him a huge disservice. Can he go somewhere else? It's going to take he's got something. He needs to go get with someone to understand mechanics of throwing everything. You can't be throwing the football like you're trying to throw it through a hurricane

because nothing has touched. Everything is 100 miles an hour. Shallow. cross is throwing like he's throwing a far cross or deep over no bro yeah and look give daniel jones credit he's came he's come in and like you said the situation didn't work out in in in in new york he had to sit the bench in in minnesota but he got an opportunity and he says if i get another opportunity got to take advantage of it because you're not i'm not letting you're not going to get too many not not to be started no no Not to be a starter, not to say, okay, this is my team.

I have nothing to worry about. You don't get too many of them chances, especially coming from New York. Shoot, if you can't. It's done in New York, you know, which is obviously what I would consider, I mean, one of the biggest markets, maybe the biggest markets. Yeah. You know, if you could deal with that meeting, you could deal with anything. Do it in. It's just like, you know, Trey Lance, he was a project.

He played. I forgot about I just I don't get it Where in Tray Lance at as the backup, huh? Is he in Dallas still? A Houston?

Because I know he was a Oh no, the Chargers He's on the Chargers Okay Because he played basically He played all the preseason The Chargers

Carl Banks, who's the radio analyst for the Giants, was extremely critical this week of Dexter Lawrence on his podcast with Bob Popper. Pop! Dexter Lawrence, nobody respects you anymore. Nobody, Banks said before going on going in on to say, Lawrence wasn't playing at the same level as previous seasons. Lawrence strongly disagreed with Banks' assessment,

at the rate in which he gets double team. those are strong words. That's how you feel. Eff it. He's delusional. Lawrence is getting double team a league high, 75% of the past rate,

75% of the rate on his pass rush opportunities. I know Banks. I played against Banks. Obviously, he's older than me, but I played against Banks. I think he was still at the Giants. I know I played against him

when he was at Cleveland because when Coach Belichick went into Cleveland, he took Banks with it. Banks was originally one of the Giants, him. It was him, PEP, Harry Carson, and L.T. So that's why I know him for him. And so I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know banks. Yeah.

What do you, what do you think, Ochoa, when analysts come out, played the game, he played the game at a high level. I think one year, Banks was the first team all pro. As a matter of fact, I think he beat out LT that year. He was the first team all pro. So what do you say when guys are critical? I mean, you know, he's just, this is his opinion, that he doesn't believe that Dexter is playing at the level

in which he's played in years past and playing out a level in which he got the big contract that the Giants giving him, which he earned. I mean, honestly, you got three defensive tackles in the NFL that are considered the best right now. Chris Jones is one of them. yeah Jeffrey Simmons is another

and that third is in no particular order and the third is Dexter Lawrence now I'm not sure when Mr. Banks is watching when it comes to football especially New York Giants

I'm sure he probably watches all the Giants game being that he had yeah he's the analyst yeah yeah he and Bob Popper yeah that he has a podcast that he's doing with Big Papa but you can see and understand

that they scheme ways to stop Dexter Lawrence. Every player, first down, it's going to be a double team. Second down, it's going to be a double team. So you understand how difficult it is for him to have the efficiency that Carl Banks is looking for, saying that nobody's scared of him anymore. If they weren't scared of him anymore, they wouldn't be double team, no.

Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. How many times you think AD got double? Now, we talk about two, two, two, two, two. totally different dogs. We talk about two totally different dog. You and I both know when you become that guy,

you can't give excuses. You can't say hey, man, get up on your show. Man, they're doubling me. We pay you to be double. You've been in them trenches, right? Yeah. You know what it's like dying. Now, I know I play around a lot. I don't I don't be down there, but I know what them strong joking could do. And I know what it's like. And having

they move your ass up out and having to take on two of that every time no matter how strong you are you mean I got to deal with two of me what we do what we do Ocho is that

we don't do it every time but we do it enough that when we don't do it you're anticipating it so you hesitate and that's all I need he who hesitated be so that's all I need to do Ocho I'm going to double your ass

enough that now when I don't double You're anticipating the double to come. What did they do to receive that used to get in the ball? What I'm going to do is double you early on. I'm going to get you frustrated. I ain't going to double you the whole game. I just want to do it just the first quarter, get you frustrated. Then I got you.

Damn. So, look, I get it. You look, I think when you're losing, okay, what's going on? Why aren't we winning? Because I think you look at They got law They got Thibodeau They got Carter

They got Brian Burns Ain't no reason You give up 33 points In the fourth quarter I'll give a damn What you say They got a nice squad of names They got a nice squad of names

Man Brian Brian uh What's his name Brian Burns Been to the Pro Bowl Desta Lawrence Was an all pro And boy nice

Timbido Kvvvon They got guys that can Now, their back end leads a lot to be desired, okay. Because if they don't get that, it's going to be a completion. Absolutely. He says he's been double. But it's hard, Ocho.

I mean, people like people talking. And the thing is, Banks knows football. Banks studies the game. He's a student of the game. It's ain't on anybody. No, no, no. No, it's not. It's absolutely not.

All I can tell it, tell, tell Dex, hey, just keep plugging, just keep plugging, just keep plugging away. That's all you do. That's all you can do.

But that goddamn double team, boy, that's just, what a thing here, boy. It is. I mean, you got to realize

they got six hundred pounds rooting your ass up out of there. You know, he's, you know, he's under or he's shade, nose. Hey, bro,

you got the center and the guard. Oh, they're going to get your ass up out of there. That's tough. And it's so funny. Speaking of that and watching Aaron Donald and some of the clips with him and his ability to get off so fast

and make himself skinny to where he's only dealing with one man out of the double team. Oh, that's crazy. And every blue moon, you'll see him. He had grabbed one in the middle of the chest with one hand and had the other way in the middle of the chest with the other hand. And he, and he's looking.

He's controlling everything. I'm like, how the hell is he? That's what the hell he doing all that? a lot of times you have to, you have to be able to field the double team. You see how the guy, how, if he's trying to reach me, they're trying to scoop me or they're sipped it.

They're trying to, you know, they're trying to power. They're trying to combo block me. But that's instinct. That's years and years of playing that double team. And understanding. Because, you know, like you said,

hey, you got to make a pile. But he was so good at playing on the edge. So he's not, and the same thing I tell you. your tight ends, bro, don't let that man square you up. You give him a side. You give him a side. Don't let him put, don't let him put his hands in your breastplate.

Oh, it's a rap. You're not going nowhere. And don't let him be strong. You definitely move. Yeah. You better be able to whack. And that's what the good detackles. Look out Aaron Donald Rush.

You see he's doing, he's doing like a wire receiver on tight end. He's up there doing this. Ah, I. Trying to get skinny. trying to run the rim. They used to have a circle and guys run around it and see how low they could get

and get around there. I remember that. It's frustrating when you lose, until you know that. And when you lose, okay, who makes the most money? Because a guy making $750,000.

Why are we talking about him? Do you pay no attention to that? Yeah, yeah. And listen, and the funny thing about it is a lot of people will see this as Hayden obviously when it comes to probably the best player on the defense

is next to Lawrence and to come out and say something like that when people know people aren't scared anymore when obviously statistically based on the numbers that you just said that anyone that's being blocked a double team 70% of time

or more I mean there's your answer there's your answer Also, the Eagles are reportedly interested in a potential blockbuster trade involving star pass rusher, Miles Garrett. According to Yahoo Sports, Charles Robinson, I've heard it from a couple of other super high-ranking people in other teams that are clearly on the phones that Howie Roseman and the Eagles are super hot at the Miles Garrett. That Howard Roseman would give up like three first-round picks and a player. you know what I think they'd probably be willing to give up three first round picks and probably Jordan Davis or one of those superstar you know one of those young

players I don't think they'd be willing to give up Carter but I think they'd be willing to give up Davis but it's going to take three first rounds absolutely and it's damn well worth it one thing about Harry Rosen on if you watch the way he maneuver them the way he conducts business when it come to getting players and building the team building the roster you And obviously right now, the main thing is the main thing with the Philadelphia Eagles. Despite what everybody's talking about, they're trying to go back and repeat on. They're trying to go back and repeat. And God damn, Harry Roseman is pushing all-hit chips in on the table.

I know what I need. I know what peace can help us, and that's going to get, God damn. What happened? What happened with that trade through three first round picks and the player? What if they want A.J. Brown in exchange? Hey, they won't, you can have him. What? What?

Yes. Because the way I look at it, Ocho, if I get him and I'm, and I'm the Philadelphia Eagles that I believe I can beat, where are we going to be picking? The bottom half. You're going to get somewhere between 28 and 32. We're not going to be in the top 10, so it's not going to haunt us. It's not going to hurt us. See, now you mess around and you pick it in the top 10, a la, uh, Chicago. Chicago. Who is that? No,

Cleveland. Remember Carolina? One of the first pick. And the next year, boom. That pick that you gave up is Caleb Williams. Yeah. And honestly, me, just thinking about it, the only thing that makes sense, okay, you're giving us three first round picks, and we need something of equal value if we're letting, if we let in. But I wouldn't give up both, though, Ocho.

I would give up three first round. picks you don't you don't get AJ and AJ and and right you can get you get AJ up you know what I might be willing to give up Carter and keep Jordan Davis no no absolutely not I would no I'm going the opposite way and and obviously way and obviously it might not be anybody defensively with all the smoke with all the talking you know they might let sticks go because I think that's the the value who divante no i say six i mean number 11 oh oh uh oh yeah a yeah yeah i can see that yeah i think but i think oh joe carter hadn't been the same player in the injuries

he didn't wasn't in shape like he was supposed to see teams factored that in also your kids 24 so if he's not in shape at 24 what makes me think he's going to be in shape at 26, 27, 28. And now, Ocho, I got to get a big car, I got to put a big contract on the table. Now he's going to want 30, 32, 33, 34 million. Am I willing, is that someone I can trust to invest that kind of money in?

I already know what I'm going to get, Miles Garrett. I'm cool with that. I already know. Miles Gary's going to play like he's broke. And he's one of the highest played defensive players in football. So I'm not, I'm not every worried about him being in shape. Now, I've got to worry about him speeding a little bit.

Hey, damn, Miles, Lord. down. Damn, bro. But, hey, I'm sure they've had, I think Andrew Barry has had a conversation with him. Um, I think he's got like six speeding tickets, a couple of them excess of a hundred miles an hour. That's something that he needs to work on, but I don't have to worry about him when it comes to being in condition and being him playing hard. I don't have to light a fireup of it. Oh, Cho, if I pay you that kind of money, Ocho, I don't need to give you no pep talk. I don't need to say, come on, son, we need it today. Written. What? Yeah. I need you to say, hey, son, I don't need you can't practice today.

Because I don't want you to hurt nobody. That's how it should be. Look, all we can go by is Ocho by body language, what's being said. Something is going on that A.J. doesn't seem happy. He doesn't feel like he's getting the targets. Because he's, Ocho, he's looking at a, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, what, uh, uh, up in Cincinnati. That man got 42 targets. I haven't got 42 targets all year.

This man got 42 targets in two games. It's different. He's looking at Puka. He's looking at Jetta. He's looking at all these guys and he said, I'm a number one. And I see number ones. They get their targets.

They get seven, eight, ten targets a game. I get three or four and I'm supposed to be okay with that. Yeah, when you're supposed to be okay with that when you're winning. And that's what everybody says. But you've got to be careful what you're going. wish for on because you got to think but you got to help me think about the situation trade deadline ends what the 4th November 4th so Tuesday Tuesday at 4 o'clock Eastern you got to be careful what you wish for because you're coming from a perfect situation and what happens if you end up in

Cleveland who because there's inconsistent play at the quarterback position yeah I think if you put the AJ Brown in that system. Now, I think they will put you in position to be able to get 42 goddamn catch his game. But who can get it to him? You trusted, you trusted, no, no, no, no, no, no. It takes a veteran quarterback to target somebody 23 times. And the guy called, what did he catch?

Like 16 of them? He got targeted, what, 19 times. He caught 12 of them. Everybody doesn't know how to do that. Um, but the thing that I love most about the Eagles, uh, uh, and I love this about, um, the Lions also is that not only are they developing players, they're not afraid to go get somebody that they feel that can really help them get to that. You see, you look at and, uh, where it's, uh, oh, we're going to talk about it a little like,

I'll touch it right now. You look at Detroit. Yeah. They say, man, we need, look, Matthew Stafford. He wants to go, okay, we'll make a trade. Okay, Rams. Give us two first rounders and Jerry Golf. Now they go get Pne Sood.

They get Jamir Gibbs. Now they get Jamo. They get Amon Rosset Brown. They get A. Yeah. And guess what they've done, Ocho? We drafted them, we developed them. We paid them.

Look at the money that they paid all these guys. You see four years, 212, four years 180, four years, 120, years one 12, four years 93. You see what you see a real current thing? Guys know now if I come here and I work my butt off I'm going to get paid. Ain't no

dilly dally around. Ain't playing no mind games and the buck stops with me on my desk and don't nobody get this and that. Ain't about no egos. Kudos to Brad Holmes, the general manager. And also kudos to him for drafting too, for drafting well. Brad Holmes, that's him.

Sometimes you draft players and hope they pan out and they actually don't pan out. But it's like everyone they drafted today, it always seemed to pan out, which is why they've been able to pay players and develop them and they get the money that they get. Kirby Joe. Yeah, they drafted really well, man. You know, I mean, they've done a great job.

You look at that D-line. You look at those linebackers, Campbell, and you look at what's the big D-Ly line when it just came back. They've done a great job of identifying a player that fits their system. You know, Coach Cabellichet used to take a lot. a lot of criticism for guys like, who is this guy? But Coach Belichick knew what he was looking for. He's looking for two guys defensive linemen.

You're not going to get no sacks. Remember Chris Long left. He said, yeah, it's fun to win, but I want to be a player. I just don't want to hold up so the linebackers can make plays. My job is a defensive as an edge rusher. Excuse me, chat. I want to hunt the quarterback. I don't want to just sit on the porch and bark.

Let me hunt. And so you identify the player that's going to fit the seat. system, a player that personality-wise will fit your system, because it don't do any good if the guy fits the system, but he's a jackass. You have to identify that. You identify that. You do your homework. Now, you're going to miss some because sometimes guys can fool you.

Absolutely. But I just love what they do. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors. For the next era of gaming.

Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. Lenovo, Lenovo. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets.

Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world. and how you think about your bottom line. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Greatness doesn't just show up. It's built. One shot, one choice, one moment at a time. From NBA champion, Stefan Curry, comes shot ready, a powerful, never-before-seen look at the mindset that changed the game. I fell in love with the grind.

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