Club Shay Shay - Best of Shedeur Sanders Mania Part 2: Unc & Ocho GO OFF on Shedeur Sanders NFL Debut!

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson break down the ultimate Shedeur Sanders storyline — from being disrespected by the Cleveland Browns and placed as the 4th-string QB in practice, to delivering an unforgettable NFL debut against the Carolina Panthers.   0:00 - Shedeur balls out in first preseason game 25:31 - Shedeur's postgame presser 35:01 - Shedeur confronts Browns Beat Reporter 43:59 - Shedeur remains 4th on Browns QB Depth Chart   (Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.) #Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight white-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm

with less than ideal access? Should you, that's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back40 on IHeartRad, app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people,

an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were, like, riding the lime bikes the other day, and we're like, we! People ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more.

So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. Cedore shines in his first preseason game, 11 of 19, 103 yards passing. Two TDs, you know Coach Prime was fired up. Time, yes, Lord, yes, Shadoor Sanders. Oh, yeah, what now? Coach Prime, God is good. shout out to Cocoa Butter

for sending us this video. LeBron James even weighed in. That young king looking good out there. Shadour Sanders, keep going up, head down and grind and head high to the most high. And head high to the most high.

Jordan Shultz. Tech from a high-ranking AFC North Executive on the Brown's rookie. Shadour Sanders, it's early, but wow, actually shocked how good he looks. Nike Football, when you get your opportunity,

create the next one. Only matter of time. Yeah. Ocho. Yeah. We could, look, we could pick two plays, Ocho. Well, damn, he missed the Sam Strong safety blitz. Well, he had a guy ride over to the flat on second and 18,

and he skipped the ball to him. But you saw that overrout that Brock Purdy throws so well in the San Francisco offense, you see him fit the ball into those small windows. Did you see him on the move, throw that touch pass? Now, the receiver made a great one hand. catch, but did you see the touch? Yes. So take off your head.

Listen, I wanted to see what should do it would look like in a situation that wasn't advantageous to him. He didn't get any reps. As many reps as he should, to prepare himself, to be prepared for a game like this of this magnitude, Dylan Brooks hurt, can you pick it hurt, Joe Flacko not playing? So the card that he was dealt to go into this game, can you be? be a leader of men, can you go in, calm, show a presence of leadership, run the team, command the team, show that regardless of who's around you, you can still conduct yourself

like quarterback one. He was calm, under pressure, went through his progressions, made some great throws, had some errand throws, you know, obviously that's what film is for. That's what the preaching is for the fix the nooks and the crannies to get him out he looked like he belonged he looked different he did andrew barry you made the right call there's a reason that you wanted him there's no reason he should have dropped as far as he did you cannot tell me as any scout of those 32 teams that didn't need a starting quarterback for those that needed a quarterback And we're in need of one, watch film on Sador Sanders and what he did at Jackson State and we did at Colorado and said, you know what?

No, that's not my guy. The quote you just read from the Scout in the AFC North, if you watch film, what did you expect him to look like? He looked exactly like he looked in Colorado. He looked exactly like he looked at Jackson State. Calm under pressure. In the pocket. going to progressions making the right throws that's what they expected to see what they expected to see and what some hope to see might be two entirely different things talk to me now

now hope man i show hope man i show hope this happens man versus expect to see what i wanted to see I wanted to see exactly what you wanted to see. I want to see could he play with poise. Could he throw the ball with conviction? Could he be decisive? Could he go through his progressions? The pocket collapses. Could he take off? He showed me some of everything. The over-rout, threw it on timing.

Guy in his face, led him, boom, drop me right in the bucket. He fit those balls, hey, pressure in his face, the second touchdown. Pressure in his face, the first touchdown. The corner slumps off, the flat, the safety is hugging him. He fits it in, kiss it in, boom. On the move, the touch pass over the top. As I mentioned at the top, the receiver did make a great play. But Chador had a nice loft.

That's not an easy throw to make. He was impressive tonight. Very. And a lot of people, they were in the chat last night. Let's see what Chador does. Let's see what Chador does. Well, hold on, you know what they're going to say now. Oh, it's the preseason.

Oh, he's not playing. against their starters. Oh, he's playing against the... Hell, he didn't have the starters either. Well, hell, he didn't have the starters either. Hello? Talk to me. I didn't see Jared Judy. I didn't see in Joku. I didn't see the starting off his line. No, Senator Tillman. So this is what I have to say to those

who are going to have another excuse. They're going to move the goalpost, right? They're going to move the goalpost and say, well, he wasn't going against the Panthers starters. Well, obviously, if he's not going against the Panthers starters, or if he doesn't have his starters as well, and what he has at a disposal and look that good with the twos and three's

and maybe the four that are trying to make the team, what do you think is going to happen when he has the main characters in there around him? Right. That makes your job a little bit easier. That are a little bit better at their position than those that he's playing with tonight. What do you think going to happen?

Well, they can try to move the goal post, but I ain't trying to kick a field goal or PAT, so I'm going to score anyway, and should do a Sanders score tonight. I'm going to give credit where it's due, 14 to 23, 138 yards, two touchdowns, no interception. He got two sacks.

Like I said, we can nitpick a couple of things yeah the Sam Strong Safety Blitz probably like you know what but it looked like he was telling the guy bro I need you to hook up on that you're probably not going to be able to outrun the safety Lamar Jackson hold on to the ball a little longer

because he could outrun the safety Josh Allen same thing that's not Shadoo Shadoor is not a mobile quarterback he's going to do all most the majority of his damage is going to be in the pocket Joe right he I'm not saying he's Tom Brady but he has the athleticism That's not what he's known for.

Go ahead, Coacho. This is the thing. What he lacks in athleticism and inability to get out the pocket, he has great pocket presence, huh? Being able to move and being able to not telegraph but understand when that clock is ticking and when it's time to get up out of there. Right. He can move extremely well within the pocket without having to take sacks.

What about the third down, huh? The third down, we scrambled. The D-line ran. The D-Line ran a stunt. He was able to get outside of it. I like, you know what I like the most? He saw the stunt and took off immediately. Yes, yes.

That's what I like, Ocho. That's what I like. Oh, y'all, I don't know who's supposed to go first and who's supposed to, I don't know who's supposed to E or who's supposed to T, and I don't know who's supposed to T and who's for the E. But I'll tell you what, I'm going. I'm going, yeah. Yeah, y'all, I tell you what, y'all figured out in film study tomorrow.

But in the meantime, I'm about to pick up this, I'm about to pick up the first down. He's played himself. He might have started after four, but after this performance, he can't be number four. Because here's the fact, Ocho?

How? It's impossible. He told us something very, very interesting. He says, you can lose your job because of injury. Because let me tell you what's going to happen. Yeah. If you get injured and you're out

and a guy comes in and he's playing better than you before you got injured is his job now. Ask yourself with Dylan Gabriel before he got hurt, was he playing better than what you saw what should do or Sanders do tonight? Kenny Pickett, ask yourself this question. Was he playing better than what should do or was, than what should do or play tonight? Yeah. So if you're going to honestly ask us, ask, answer those questions. Okay. Right. And the thing about it, what people need to understand for those that in the chat is one thing to have joint practices is one thing to practice is against yourself and look good against your players.

Yes. Everything is scripted on. Everything is scripted even defensively in those joint practices at time because there's certain things they want to work on defensively and there's certain things that you want to work on offensively. When you get into the game, nothing. Nothing is shared from team to team. No.

So it's a green light and everything going as if it's a real game. You're working your scheme, your game. plan and all you have to do is executed in his simplest form as simple as preseason games are from an offensive perspective in the way the players are called and he did that tonight to a hell of a job one hell of a job tonight and this is just something to continue to build off of clean up there were some mistakes obviously they're going to always be mistakes and things you can get better at and as you continue to see different looks you're not going to get many looks obviously it's the preseason everything you see defensively will be very vanilla you know cover

tool sometimes that you might throw on you know man don't count the plays ocho make the plays count yeah oh and listen he made him count the night on that's what you have to do when you're a low round draft pick ocho me being a seven no barren being a being a being a low round drive pick ohcho you're not going to get the plays that a high round draft pick's going to get no so don't go out there thinking that but when it's your time shine yes You got to When it's your time shine And that, hey

You say I don't count time I make time count Well I didn't count plays As my brother used to say Hey, I know you ain't get That many reps keep your head up Because one day John Elway gonna call for you

He gonna look for you You need to make sure you're ready You need to be Make sure you're where you're supposed to be Right Shador didn't get a whole lot of reps But when opportunity presents itself

That's what luck is It's when preparation meets opportunity Amundsen said some call it, look. I'm glad you just said what you just said. You just said Shador didn't get as many reps as he should have in practice. But he got into a game and what did he do, huh? Right. But the refs that he did get in practice, he made those count.

Because a lot of times, I've seen it. I don't know if you've seen it on show. I've seen guys. Man, I ain't getting no burn, man. I can't. And then when you get out there, you effing up. He's fucking up. Yeah.

My bad. Shadour says, hey, these one or two. reps I might get with the three the threes and fours, I got to make these counts. These got to be my, this has got to be my best worker today. Yeah. Because you know why, Ocho, it might be my only worker today. Yeah. So if it's my only, it's got to be my best.

Because this is the only time they're going to see me on tape. They see me standing behind and, you know, hey, I'm being part of a good throw, a good catch, good run, good job offensive line, good play called coach. But at the end of the day, I need to get an opportunity to show you what I can do. And when the opportunity presents itself, that's what luck is, preparation meeting opportunity. Amundsen said some call it luck. Mm-hmm. Hey.

Hey, listen, I'm happy. I'm happy for a young bull. I'm happy for young bull. This is one of the few times. I can't think the last time that everyone was excited, excited about wanting to watch a Cleveland Brown's game. Did you see all the people in the stands with the 12 and with the signs? Did you see all that, oh, Cho? A Cleveland Brown's game.

On the road. Cleveland don't travel like that, trust me. I was in the same division with the jokers. And guess what? We used to play them. Mm-hmm. Same. Same.

They didn't travel like that. Yeah. And they ain't got no reason to travel because they've been bad a long time. Yeah. So listen, tonight we saw a very small sample size. We saw a very small samas size. Yes. Of what Shador Sanders can look like.

The fact that he played with the twos, with threes, maybe against twos and threes. Yeah, for sure. I say this to say that. What happens when he's with the ones having to run that same offense? Right. And you, and you, guess what? And you go and you game playing. I'm just calling plays arbitrarily, Ocho.

That's it. That's all they do tonight. I'm not game planning. I'm not game planning because we normally game playing game three. Right. We go back and now the coaches go back and they look at what they did last season. And we script a game plan that's going to be what we think we're going to see on first down, second down, third down, third and short,

third and long down in distance area of the field first and goal second and goal third and goal now we're calling plays not just to arbitrarily

call plays we're calling plays with a purpose for a purpose and eventually they're going to get to that but I was impressed look I understand

it's the preseason but for someone that didn't get as many reps made the reps that he did get he made them count in practice

and when he got his opportunity when an opportunity presented itself he took full advantage Tom Brady's the opportunity presented itself which is hey

when the rubber meet the what when the rubber meet the road man and so uh should he should be proud of himself you know him being who he is raised how he was raised you're supposed to say

weird I guess you raise livestock and animals but anyway being raised how he was raised he's not going to be he's not going to be he's not going to get, he's not going to get too high, Ocho, because guess what? Yeah. Even keel. Yeah.

You got to stay even kill. You know why? Because not only you have to deal with the noise on the outside, that's one thing. But now you got to deal with the noise on the inside, especially with the owner coming out just last week saying that wasn't my pick. Yeah. That wasn't my pick. That's not who I wanted.

Thank you, Mr. Hems. How you do it, Mr. Hemsman? Make sure Andrew Berry gets all the credit. Like you said, Brother Hasam, don't smile. don't even don't say anything start with s he said don't he say she the audacity

don't you say it's the nerve the gall I'm appalled well I'm a David I'm going to say it one more time and this is for everybody in the chat even if you don't like Shador even if you don't like them how do you watch

film college film on Shador Sanders and every other quarterback that went before him and see what all of them have done and say, you know what? No, I'm a pass-up with him. That's not the guy I want. Right.

New Orleans Saints. Pittsburgh Steelers. I don't know what other teams that were in need of a quarterback. How do you do it? I'm just asking from a person that played the game of football and understanding, I have an eye,

I have an eye. I played the game for a very long time at a very high level. I'm not saying I'm a skisks. out, but I know what it's supposed to look like in situations that are not advantageous for you. I just saw a young fella win in Jackson State, turn a Colorado program around that won one game, regardless of what his record was in its totality, 23 and 12, whatever may have been,

I know what it can do when you got the right pieces around him. I know what he can do. He's a winner regardless of what situation you put him in and he showed it again tonight. yet again in night. Mm-hmm. With his back up against the wall. Yeah. He just has the demeanor to be a quarterback.

Nothing seems to impact him. He doesn't get too high. He doesn't get too low. He has the utmost confidence in himself. And most quarter, most the good ones really do. No matter how bad. And we've seen it. No matter how bad it might be going, the really good ones,

you know if it's laid the ball game, they got a chance to beat you. Yeah. And, and Sodor is in the situation. where it's like, doesn't make any excuses. And he always says the right thing. Listen, it's not as easy as you think to always say the right thing because you're dealing with the human element of it.

The human element of it. No matter how much you have, no matter how little you have, no matter how good you've been, no matter how bad you've been, you're dealing with the human element of it. And people have emotions. People have feelings. And so sometimes when people lash out and say things like, damn, man, you know, you take the amount of time, but he hears what's being written about him.

Absolutely. He hears, he sees if he doesn't, he's getting work, it's getting back to him. But I just loved the way the man, he kept his head down, closed off his ears, and just did what he was supposed to do. He went to work. And that's how you, that's how you have to approach it. Don't get mad. I ain't trying to prove y'all wrong. I'm trying to prove me right.

And in the process of proving me right, I'll be. prove you wrong it was it was a great job it was his first outing like i said those throws it was the throw it wasn't so it was it was it was the throws that he made ocho go back and take a look at that overball and we see brock purdy throw three or four those a game to iuk he used to hit britt uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh de bo on the over look at how he threw that ball the timing of it do you do you understand the anticipatory skills have to have as a quarterback with pressure coming at you, there was one, there was one overthrow he couldn't even see.

Yeah. Because on the replay, we couldn't even see him. We just saw the ball come out. So he's anticipated where the receiver was going to be. And he just made the throw and put it only where the receiver could catch it. Yep. That first touchdown. When people saw tonight, I don't think they understand how difficult the game is.

I don't think they understand how difficult the game is. But he made it look like he's been doing it for a very long time. it's his first time, it's his first time in the NFL game. But he's used to it. Oh, Chad, look at his mannerisms. Look how he walk on the first down. Okay, he almost did the watch celebration. He said, you know what, I'm looking at the time, but it ain't time yet.

And just, you know, just everything about him and being quarterback number one, just the way he carried itself. He was ready for the moment. No matter what they, no matter what they did, no matter what they said, just put me in a situation just hand me the cards give me the hand and I'm going to play it

and he did that just exactly how he showed the night the hand he was dealt he played the hand very well and it's only going to get better from here it doesn't go backwards you don't you don't digress I'm excited

and this is coming from a Bengal fan at heart I'm excited for the Browns to finally maybe You have the answer at the quote of that position at the trying 35 times over the years. You know, I, man, listen, man, I can go on and on about this, but go ahead. You got it. I think the thing is, the biggest thing that an athlete can have is the ability to believe that he belongs, he or she belongs. I was a seventh round draft pick.

You do it was a five. There was 12 rounds. When I was a seventh, there were seven rounds. He's a fifth. Yeah. But there is not one point in time that I didn't feel like. I belonged on that field. I saw a lot of these guys at the bowl games.

I saw these guys at Combine, and I read about them. Yeah. And I remember calling my brother at the East West Shrine Gras. I said, these dude not better than me. They're not better than me. I don't care what they say. Yeah. I remember going to the Combine. I said, man, I, you know, what you think you read?

I say probably 4-6, 4-7. I say, but they're not better than me. They might be faster to me, but they're not better than me. I belong in the NFL. And when I went to Denver, all those guys that went before me. I'm like, ain't no what? I remember asking myself, how in the hell did you get drafted

before me? Yeah. I said, but don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I say, it won't be long. It won't be long. It was like the cat, when a girl, she said, boy, the cat got his tail

caught in the washing machine. You know what he said, Ocho? He said, it won't be long now. He said, she didn't know what he was talking about. His tail wouldn't be long anymore or it wouldn't be long. for it all be over. Yes, so.

Yeah, man. And when we put the pads on, Ocho? Yeah. I'd never forget, because, you know, the rookies, we went to camp before the vet. So we would go like a couple of days

before the vet, so we would already be practicing. Right. In Denver, before we headed up to Greeley. Right. I saw him. They was nervous, Ocho,

like a long-tail dog with a porch full of rocking chairs. You know, if somebody leaning back and go, you know what I'm talking about now. Mm-hmm. I thought they were nervous.

I said, oh, yeah. That's all I need to see. Just a little fear. Just a little fear in the man's eyes. Because that's my greatest ability. Yes. Another man's fear. Yeah.

I like it. I like it. And listen, I know we've been talking about Shador, but listen, remember what I told you about the Panthers, right? Yes. Remember what I told you about the Panthers? If there's a dark, a chat, stay with me real quick. If there's a dark horse team that I believe in this year, that is going to creep up

and maybe make it run into playoffs, I said it would be the Panthers. They didn't look bad. Bryce Young didn't look back. Jalen Coker went crazy tonight. T-Mack, the rookie from Arizona looked good tonight. I know Xavier Lekid got thrown out,

getting into a little tussle. Listen, I love the passion. It's just preseason. That's fixable. That's fixable. But again, look how the Panthers look early in the game. For those, I know everybody tuned in to watch the door,

but I'm telling you right now. And I say it first, someone that's that's not much of a panther fan, didn't play for the organization. They owe me nothing. I'm telling you the Dark Horse team for this season, the Carolina Panthers, Bryce Young, and their receiving cord.

I'm telling you, watch. Oh, Joe, I ain't never been that hot in a preseason game. No? The tusser? Oh, yeah. They were going at it, huh? They were going at it. I don't really.

really got no tussing in practice. Bro. Because I'll tell you, what Dan Reed's going to say, you fighting, that means we ain't working hard enough. Mike Shanahan say the same thing. Right.

He ain't working hard enough. Bro, it ain't like it is now, bro. Them two hour, two and a half hour practice, man, please, with pads and you had on pads. Oh, let me take that back, Ocho. You have on, they call it, see what they call shells with shoulder pads and shorts. Right.

It's not shells like they call it now. Basically got those little fitted styrofoam stuff on. that was not shells when when I got in the 90s shells were shoulder pants and shorts shorts yeah and you know

we hit they were we hit back then 9 on 7 was live live yep team team was a solid thud up it wasn't no touch the guy on it like two hand touch oh no you put shoulders on it

you put pads on him you better come to you better come to balance and be ready I remember Dennis Smith We call him Kahuna And Atwater Man, they come down In that box

Well, we had thumpers back then Oh yeah Man, please Atwater ain't played with No Atwater coming down here now And Atwater wasn't the thumpeter Like Dennis Smith

Kahuna was the thumpper number 49 Oh whoa, whoa more than Atwater Yes Lord Ocho I saw that joke A at 205-2010 I saw him sit lineman sitting lineman on their ass

they pulling he ain't never go low right up high he put and that shoulder in their chest and sit them down at 210 at 210 dang go back if y'all can find it go back and check the tape he hit Roosevelt Pots

they both ran he pops come through the hole he hit him he was out cold uh marian butts Hey, if you, if you're a Charger fan You know who back then, Ocho They had a big old big running back They had big Marion butts

They had Rod Bernstein They had a big Joe Caravello Big Joe Cox I mean, the tight ends With like 300 pounds Offensive line Mammoth offensive line Yeah

Kahuna run through him Go back and look at that play With Dennis Smith He hit Marion Buzz And he hit Roosevelt Pots Yeah and you know who else was a thump or two remember donovan there is

yeah yeah i played against d d d d at uh at jacksonville but that was back in the 90s you had chuck cecil you had mark mark carrier from chicago yeah boy back there it wasn't no nothing defenseless about that they said you got him in the shoulder pants what the hell you thought was going to happen you come across the middle oh yeah you're going to get that work what you're going to get that work uh rodney harrison Oh, raw coming with all for them, every time.

Hey, I say, bro, hey, say, hey, shark, just stay on my knees. I say, hey, got you. But, boy, we definitely try to hit each other in the mouth. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Hey, that's a hard playing joker. I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eat Eaters podcast network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting.

and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you? That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all.

Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show. and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiancé Sue Bird, watching former teammates retire and more.

Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate,

you can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candace Parker and college superstar A.Z. Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two.

And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. Shadour said all the right things last night as he has expected. after a great preseason debut.

Let's take a listen to what you do or had to say. I mean, God's patient with us. It's humans. We messed up that time, but I don't feel like he threw us away as individuals. So it's different things and different life lessons, you know, you've got to go through. And I haven't went through this situation, you know,

that I'm in ever. So it's really just a test, you know. I feel like from God or whoever it's from, just a test. But anyway, I'm just thankful that I was able to see the day of light and get out there and be able to play. So, you know, they didn't have to let me play. So anything and everything, you know, is good for me. So then, you know, the kids looking up, the kids definitely inspire me, of course, more. So a lot of people incarcerated that definitely talk to their friends and talk to me to tell me my friend from jail was, you know, watching you play and watching everything that's going on. So it's just like the world, the world, you know, I say it's so small and everybody sees everything. And I'm thankful to be able to inspire people through everything.

Because the lady just told me now, when I'm having a bad day, I just think about Shador, and I'm going to act like Shador. You know, so like that's so cool, you know, to me that I'm some form of inspiration. Jadur, the only thing I'm going to disagree with you, they had to let you play because everybody else was hurt because you ain't had no choice if they didn't let you play

they brought a guy in they brought in a Sloom Huntley because Flacko wasn't going to play and the other two couldn't play so but you did your thing all you could control

is what you could control what you could control was how you played how you handle the how you handle the situation that you've been placed in he did it he did very well

he did it more hell of a job and he handled it well he said all the right things he did all the right things and that's that's control what you can control what you can control don't worry about it control what you can control

he went through a storm something he never if you'd have told him a year ago he would be in this situation where he's at right now he wouldn't have believed to his dad wouldn't have believed it nobody

you or I didn't wouldn't believe it? No, absolutely not. Based on baseball. But you're here. Now, forget how I got here. How are you going to get out of here?

Yeah. Because a lot of time, you know, we spend a lot of time, much, man, how we got into the situation. You're in the situation now. How are you going to get out of it? Yeah.

And I think you've done a great job. Look, you know, I'm sure he talks to his dad, even though his dad is not there. He still talks to his dad daily. Dad gives him great advice. He doesn't put any more on us that we can have. Absolutely not. And sometimes the situation they put you in, they're not advantageous for you.

It's not the best situation for you because you've got people in the situation you win that don't even believe in you. And that's what I hurt worse. Most of the time, if you hear someone, oh, I'm a part of your organization. and you say, well, hell, I ain't want you, though. That's meant to break you. That's meant to break you. You can't break what you didn't build.

You can't break what you didn't create. Come on, man. But everybody's not built like that mentally. You're right. In this era? True. In this era of sensitivity and, oh, he said this about me and, no, everybody's not built for that.

That's meant to break you. And if they break you mentally, it affects what you do in between the lines on the green grass. But that's either here, no there. He played well. The small sample size we got to see your brother Sanders, 12 look good. You look good.

You're right, Ocho. You're right. Everybody, I mean, I mean, sometimes, I mean, sometimes when things are not going your way and you feel it down, man, it's hard to stay positive. And I think the thing, the best thing for him is that he has a dad that's really positive. He sees the positivity and everything, even when it's all negativity.

He'll find something positive. He'll find something good to say. Danos. That's what he won't. make him bark make him bark make him bark no no we don't want to I try to deterrent from barking

and the thing is I put Titus up Titus asleep so I ain't got to worry about Titus coming here and him growling and going crazy Hey that's a good combination boy and then I took the bones up because him and Teddy fighting over the bones he wanted all the bones he didn't want

teddy to have none so he had three I gave each one of bone so he had his and he bargained at Teddies so once I gave him once I gave him tennis it was all good so I just took all three of them because he had two at first teddy just had one but he wasn't satisfied with that he wanted all three so I said no we're not going to do that you got a little we're going to take we're going to take the bones up on your hands over there man You want to go stay with Ocho? Hey, yeah. Come on over here, Thanos.

I'm going to take you down to the city, boy. They got a dog, they got a dog park downtown. He said, I can go to the dog park. He said, you know, I got, you know, I had a little minor procedure about a month ago. Wait, what happened? He had surgery already? We're all good. What's wrong with him?

We got him fixed up. Oh, why you? Man. He said, I would look. He said, he heard about them child support payments. He said he ain't want none of that. Okay, okay. Yeah.

Okay. Get out, they didn't have a little fun, man. Yo, no girl. Yeah, when they see that off. He said, we ain't having no fun. But he didn't do it look good. He looked good. He looked really good last night.

He spoke really good after the game. And the thing now is to build, excuse me, is to build on what he did last night. He also spoke about gifting teammates from new cleats. Check this out, Joe. Yeah, I'm just excited for all of them. I gifted a lot of receivers, the prime DT96s. You know, a couple of them had them on.

So I just gifted a couple of, like the main receivers going into this game. You know, I gifted them some cleats. Some warm, some didn't. But I was like, okay, this is just my little appreciation gift to them. Because they don't be having a lot in stock. So I couldn't do everybody. I wish I could. but um yeah it is great

hey the ones he won the game were dope yeah those the ones he talked about they had the the orange lining like for the brown scheme cut away yeah they was nice they were nice I think also as a receiver but for me I wouldn't want to cleat that heavy you know the pre the Dionne I mean they're heavy based on the way they're made I want a light as shoe as possible

So, I mean, they look good. Time could have been out there in Thames and run four three. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But it ought to beans. I was a, you know, I wore a TD bottle. Okay. So I wore wide receiver cleats at tight end.

So you, so you was good. Yeah, because I'm a hard planner. Me, even though I'm a hard planner on, It's funny. Reebok, obviously, was Reebok back then. I had Reebok take all the lining out of my shoe. I don't want any support. I want my shoe to be just like a track shoe. Just like a track shoe.

I need to feel the floor. I need the feel the floor when I stop, when I go, when I try to cut and transition. I don't want anything restricting my ankles when it's time for my lateral movement and movements. So all I had was the shell, some shoelaces, and cleats at the bottom, that's it. Yeah. That's it. But you always were a molded bottom.

You wore a tempo bottom. Yeah, you didn't, you didn't, yeah, you didn't wear seven stars. No, I had to have a choice but to wear seven stars. When we played in Heinz Field, I think they let the field be messed up like that on purpose. Yeah, the business. Oh, my goodness. It's like, I don't know, I don't know. That was an advantage for them.

Yeah, for sure. But, yeah, that's the only time I wore seven stars is when we play. at Heinsfield. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There's a video that's been making his way around, courtesy of Bucky. It's him confronting Brown's reporter,

Tony Grossey, for not having anything positive to say, Ocho. Let's take a look at this video. So, I'll be hoping you got something positive to say, Buckley. You don't even say negative. And I'm like, I didn't do that. to you.

I didn't see none positive to everything. I just don't buy everything. Come on, Tony. What I do? What I do to you, Tony? Hey, you know what?

Hey, that's dope, Monk. I like it. I like it because most of the time those interactions like that, that's not how they go when it comes to players. Most of the time when it comes to a beat reporter that's been established for that long as a Cleveland Beat reporter?

You know, when it comes to saying something negative, most of the time, the player challenges him in that manner because you've never said anything positive. And I can just imagine, I haven't read any of the article, and I could just imagine if the rest of the world has been somewhat negative towards the door, I could imagine what the person that's in-house that sees him everyday rights.

So the fact that they were able to do it with a smile, with class, with grace, and understanding, well, God, damn, do you have anything nice to say? say because everything I've seen so far has been negative. I did nothing to you. But obviously the dude had the job to do. You understand how to get the views.

You have to understand negativity. Negativity it would create traction. Clickbait. How can I get people to read? What I'm right. Where you talk negative about the biggest thing going on right now in Cleveland outside of LeBron James when he was there.

Right now is Shador Sanders. Robert Lattel Black Sports Online Grossey has been like this for 30 years Baker couldn't couldn't handle it couldn't I guess he was saying Baker could not have handled it

Shador disarmed him in 60 second and changed his energy that's a gift not all people have for negative people Hey listen they'll smile in your face they're smiling face obviously at that point and in that moment

with Chador greeting him the way he did with class with grace but god damn are you going to say anything i'm just waiting on you to say something nice something yeah so the guy has no i mean what can you say especially after that performance what what what can you say and i know people are going to say oh it's the preseason oh it's a small sample size let's see what he does in the regular season i mean it's still this is all we have to go off so we're talking about what we saw in that specific case in that moment. I'm curious to what he wrote today, because I'm sure he has something to say today.

I think it's different for a quarterback because, you know, the eyes are all on you. But I really never had no problem. I was seven-round draft pick. I wasn't supposed to be in it anyway. So anything that I gave, anything that I gave him 20 catcher, that was good. But as I got, you know, I had never had a problem with Mark Kisler,

never had a problem with Woody Page I never had a problem with who else, Jim Armstrong he was a columnist when I was there he was with the indie star now I forget his name Shepter and I got to Denver at the same time Adam Shepter was reported in Denver

yeah well Shepty's been at this thing for a minute boy oh yeah who's the guy for the Indy Star. No, he's the columnist. He's the big guy. Huh? No, no, no, no, no, no.

Who's the big? But he was in Denver when I was there, the first half. I hate when I can. can't. Can you look these people? Scott Homer? Nope. Come on, Denver, help me.

I know y'all in the chat. Hey, somebody in the chat. They don't look like a skunk. His color way. Teddy I mean, Thanos I ain't talking I want to learn how to whistle like this

You know how to whistle like this, huh? You know how to whistle like this, honk? No It should be loud as here. I want to learn how to do that. Probably too late now. Well, damn, I can't, it's too... I got this a certain age, age grade. Are we, why you try to whistle like that now?

I just never, I just, I don't know, I'm going to a NASCAR event soon and I want to be able to make sure I can whistle like that at the NASCAR event. I'm going to, they'll take the, oh, yeah, yeah, remember I told Bubba, I told Bubba I was coming, so I'm actually coming. We got everything aligned, so I'm going down there. I got my, I got my flannel, my cutoff fleas, I got my jorts. I'm serious. I got my jorts. I'm ready. The only problem is I don't drink long as they got hot dogs and I'm having my Coke with no ice, two hot dogs. Nice little date with my lady friend. I know she's probably watching. Man, what's that guy? I can't think of his name, man. Hey, chat, I got a poem. Y'all want to hear it or you want to save it for later? We're going to save it for later. I'll think about it.

Yeah. Kevin Stefansky was asked, what's your doer's big game does for the depth chart for the Browns? His response was, yeah, we really just focused on developing our players. We're in evaluation modes. I'm pleased where the guys are, but I'm not diving into no quarterback competition. You got to. You got to keep it safe. You don't have a choice but to keep it safe. You don't have a choice but to keep it safe.

There's not much you can say. He's not in position to really say anything. You can't make any evaluations based off what you saw tonight. Listen, brother Stefanski, he doesn't even have the power to be able to give the green light on what he wants to do. He doesn't have the power to give the green light on what he wants to do. It's going to come down to those upstairs. But I think he's going to come to a point where certain individuals are going to play so well. They're not going to have a choice.

They're not going to have a choice, but I know one thing. I can tell you this, a blind man can see that. Joe Flacco will be the starter for the foreseeable future until things aren't going well offensively for the Cleveland Browns. And I'm assuming, as I said, long ago, that should do would be number two. And he's been able to show that. I hope hopefully Kenny Pickett and Dillian Gabriel can get healthy so they should showcase themselves in the preseason games

and what they can and can't do. And that's it. I'm hoping it's a good, healthy quarterback battle once they get back healthy. So you think it's going to be his job? You think he's going to be the number two? Yeah, I said that. Yeah, I said that.

You ever, you're like, want to think of something and you can't think of it? I get mad. I just want to be wanting to go to bed. I don't even want to talk. You can't think of the guy's last name? Yeah, man. It's driving me crazy. Whatever.

I'm going to have to call. I'm going to have to call Mike Cliffs tomorrow. Man, what's that dude's name? It's going to come to you. Thanos, you know his name? He says, look, I'm not even a year old. I won't even be a year old until December, so clearly I don't know what you're talking about.

I'm Jake Hofer, and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eaters Podcast Network. Each episode, I'll be asking eight white-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you?

That's what the real question is. Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people and an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino to the show, and we had a blast. We talked about her recent 40th birthday celebrations, co-hosting a podcast with her fiancé Sue Bird,

watching former teammates retire and more. Never a dull moment with Pino. Take a listen. What do you miss the most about being a pro athlete? The final. The final. And the locker room. I really, really, like, you just, you can't replicate.

You can't get back. Showing up to locker room every morning just to shit talk. We've got more incredible guests like the legendary Candice Parker. and college superstar AZ Fudd. I mean, seriously, y'all. The guest list is absolutely stacked for season two. And, you know, we're always going to keep you up to speed on all the news and happenings around the women's sports world as well.

So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. NFL Insider says, Jadour Sanders, still stands behind Dilling Gabriel for the Brown's coaches. Gabriel is the head of Sanders in the eye of the coaching staff, but rarely in training camp has that position matched what we've seen on the field. The quarterback situation remains the story of camp,

and Shuduantz is settling in to lead three scoring drives in the most extended action of the summer won't make the team's consistent stance that Sanders is fourth in a line any less perplexing. No reasonable person thinks Sanders will be fully ready to lead a team and consistently attack a complicated defense three weeks from now. He's shown enough talent and growth. However, to make anyone believe he should be on the team and have a chance to develop into a starting quality player,

Sanders is talented, his throat out of the end zone to wide receiver Greg Labarden in the preseason opener, and his floater down the sideline to receiver Luke Florea later approved until we see Sanders get practice reps with the number one office. we can't believe the Browns view him as having much of a shot to be the number two when the season began. I agree with what they're saying. But that's my point is,

okay, you said, have we seen enough? Have you seen enough for Dilling? What have you seen from Dillon Gabriel to make you think he can be number two? Did you hear, did you, who did you, excuse me, who wrote that? The Browns, Appalachian, The Brown's athletic insider, right?

Yep. So you see Shadour, do what he does. Three quarters of football. Three, I think maybe he played well into the fourth quarter, right? Yeah, I think so. In a live game, you saw him play the way he played and still questioned if he can do the same thing when he has the actual starters at his disposal. I'm confused.

My thing is, he says no reasonable person thinks Sanders will be fully ready to lead a team and consistently attack a complicated NFL defense three weeks from now. What about Dylan Gabriel? Has he shown you enough to make them believe that three weeks from now he can lead this team against a complicated defense? I digress even further. Has Kenny Pickett ever shown you that he can lead a team against a complicated defense? complicated defense. Because all I know is that what I keep hearing is what you're telling me what he can't do.

Like my coach just saying college with, hey, well, put it, find something that he can do. See, you keep telling me what should do or can't do. Well, your job as a coach is to put players in position and find something that they can do. Wait a minute. But where's the can't coming from when we just saw him do it? I know it's a small sample size. It's three quarters of football. but everything you said it can do, he just did.

Matter of fact, he just did when we already saw him do at Jackson State. He just did what we saw him do at Colorado. We just did, even though it's a small samicide. Uncle, I played the game for a very long time. Yep. I played the game for a very long time. I'm a receiver.

I know what it is supposed to look like. I know what it looks like when there's a quarterback that's playing in a game, and he's confident. He's polished. His pocket presence, his mannerism, I know what it should look like we've seen Kenny Pickett

with the Steelers. If he was the answer for Cleveland, he would have been the answer in Pittsburgh. What's the question you're asking? Because if Kenny Pickett is the answer, I need to know the question. Did he play for the University of Pittsburgh? Yes.

I don't know what more. I don't know what more. I don't know what more. Listen, when you fill out your resume, right? When you fill out your resume and you're going for that job interview, you want to put your best foot forward. You want to keep a lasting impression. Correct.

Well, the lasting impression is what we saw Friday night from the person they claim is the fourth string quarterback. Yeah. Okay, what do we do? We bill from that on Saturday. Well, you build from that, no, you build from that starting in practice by giving him more reps, more quality reps. You don't leave him in the position that he was in

where he's getting a handful of reps with the threes and fours. You give him some opportunities with the ones, with the twos. I'm not saying he has to take five, six reps with the ones, but I'm saying you sprinkle, maybe you give him one or two reps, maybe you give him three or four reps with the twos. I do agree with this. Until we see Sanders get practice reps with the number one offense, we can't believe the Browns view him as having much of a shot

to be number two when the season began. True. I do agree with him. that statement. You're not going from four to two. If you're four training, then all of a sudden, the season's start, you're number two. Yeah. They're going to need to see you with the ones and twos

to feel comfortable because they got to make a decision. And when you make that decision, you release somebody. Ain't no guarantee that you're going to be able to bring them back and put them on your practice squad. Somebody might sign them and put them on the active roster. So that's the case, Ocho, do I stay on

your practice squad for, say, 25, 30,000, or do I go somewhere and get an opportunity to get a real roster spot and make almost a million dollars a year. So that's the question that you have. That's a decision that you make when you release these guys because I'm sure there are some guys, you know, I would love to have another year

learning our system. And when we come back next year, having the OTAs, the training camp, the season of working scout team stuff, when we come back for OTAs, Ocho, he should be good to go. He should be fully developing good to go. So I don't want people to think,

and I'm that we beat Ocho and I are beating up on Zach Jackson. I agree with what he's saying. But my thing, I'm more talking about the Browns as an organization as a coaching staff. Are you are, because the fans are saying

you want us to believe you or are lying eyes. Ooh. I know, I know, I know what my eyes. I saw. I know what I saw. I hear what you say it. But I see better than I hear. Come on now. Y'all keep telling us Dillon Gabor, Dylan Gabor, but we have yet to see him. Now, everything that I see is that, now, he's, you know, she's not better than Shadour.

For most of the articles that I've been reading, and, hey, people can write whatever they want to write. So I don't want to put too much emphasis, but I haven't seen, I haven't read a whole lot that where they say that Dillon Gabriel is better, has been played, has played better or playing better than Shadour. What did I tell you, Young? What did I tell you, not too long ago? Yeah. but how camp look. Yeah. I'm not saying no names again this time because I don't want to get nobody in no trouble.

What did I tell you? Yeah. And then exactly what that individual said, who's in there every day that plays on the other side of the ball and has to see it exactly what he said way back then, we saw it show up. The fact that he's not getting first team reps with the ones of the twos and still went out there and looked the way he did. What does that tell you? He getting margin of the refs to begin with.

We're damn the one and two, though, Cho. He barely getting reps at all. And then strip. Okay. I'll say no more. Again. Say no more. So you're not doing him justice in practice,

but still showed up in the game and looked apart and looked like that. What does that say? But we're going to see Saturday. And I hope Dealing Gabriel gets his opportunity because I would love to see what he does and then what he gives that offense and that coach and staff

that believes in him, I'm hoping he gets a fair shot. I'm hoping he does. I'm hoping he does. I would love to see it. I would love to see it. I know he's a competitor. He was great at Oregon.

He was really good. So I'm all for it. Yeah, it's... Let the guy... Like... It's like when you end that situation, the guy flashed, normally when guys flashes in camp.

Oh, Joe, you and I both play the NFL for a long time. We both played at a high level. Every team that I've been on, when a guy flashes in practice, a guy flashes in the game, he gets to move up and he gets meaningful reps, more meaningful reps, meaning for reps, meaning he's no longer on the third or fourth. They'll sneak some reps in with the twos. Maybe they'll give him one or two shots with the ones.

That's normally how it works. they're not so set in their ways that it's like oh we just see this guy as it's kind of like TD I gave a prime example TD was a guy TD was a six round draft pick TD was probably like the fifth or the six running back

but every day he made that play on kickoff and every day you saw TD get a little better and gave him a little bit more reps and so all of a sudden he'd go from six to five from five to four four to two after the first game of the season, TD won.

Yeah. Normally, that's how it plays out. Guys show you in the game. Because when guys flash in practice, Ocho, Cho, you're thinking to yourself, I wonder if he do that in the game. Hey, I'll coach put his ass in the game. Let's see what he could do. Right.

That's normally how it happened. Wade Phillips, our defensive coordinator, that's how I got in the game. He said, Dan, put his ass in the game. Let's see if they can cover him, because we can't. Dan's like, okay, they put my ass in the game. Yeah. Well, Shadour, I think Shadour showed you something that he deserving.

I'm not saying you need to implement him as the starter, the number one, O-Trow. We didn't say that. That's not what we're saying. But I think he's shown you enough Friday to says, you know what, we might need to give him some more quality reps with guys that's going to be playing on Sunday and let's see him facing the number one defense, Miles Garrett, those guys over there,

but let's give him Jerry Judy. Let's give him in Joku. Let's see if he can replicate some of that what he did on Friday with the ones today. Yeah. That's all we're saying. And can I say one more thing? Go ahead.

if you can do what he did without getting the practice reps in a game without the number ones around him things only get easier when you have the ones at your disposal that are better at the position sedrick tillman and joku jerry jute it only becomes easier unc it doesn't get more difficult. Now, once you're playing against a team that's skiing for you and disguises and does all the stuff, you know, the game planning for you, okay, that's different. Then you just have to process a little bit faster. Yes. That's all. Everything is vanilla. They line up and they just go. That's exactly how it is. But also, you get better at something by doing said thing yes exactly you heard what you just said you get better or something by doing said

but he wasn't doing said thing because he right and still looked the way he did i agree i agree they don't view it that way they that organization they don't view it that way how i don't know i don't know but i'm guessing in the in the direction in which they're going i'm hoping they're right. They haven't been right in the 35 quarterbacks that they tried previously. Or maybe I'm wrong.

No. I just think I do believe that he's earned the right to get quality reps with the ones and twos. I'm not saying that you implement him that now he's QB1. I'm not saying it's QB2.

Maybe but I think he's earned that opportunity I know one thing I know one thing they better put a statue of Andrew Barry outside their goddamn stadium

yeah tell you that I can already foresee how it's going to go I already know how it's going to go I can already see it. They're going to continue to play, continue to play,

put everybody in front of them, continue to play, and then when his opportunity presents itself like it did because of injury, he looked a certain way. You can't deny it. No. You can't deny it, no matter what you try to do. You can't deny it. You can't.

Ocho, and Cleveland doing this. Sometimes a man can make his destiny on the very road he took to avoid it. Sometimes you might, they might even have their quarterback, even though they tried to avoid giving him the opportunity. Come on, man. Come on, man.

On the very road you took to avoid it, you found your destiny. I just, I'm not saying I'm general manager. I'm not saying I'm a, player personnel director, I just know that when guys flash, Tom Brady,

they kept four quarterbacks that year. Yeah. Coach Belichick said that he saw something in Tom that said if he got more of an opportunity, he might be okay. He didn't know he's going to be this. Hell, if he knew he was going to be that, somebody would have taken him in the first thing in the draft.

Right. But he flashed enough. Guys, you know, late round picks, okay. Like, he's showing something. He just, sometimes you just need time. Sometimes you need more opportunity. You know, looking at Tray Lance, Tray Lance, like, he needed time. Time, which the 49ers didn't have.

The 49ers are on the clock. They got to win now with the roster that they have. They're not in rebuild. Well, the Cleveland, I mean, you just gave a guy $140 million. He's under the assumption. Now, he played it both ways. You know, I won out, y'all not winning, got the money. Hey.

But what are y'all, what are y'all doing? Are y'all in rebuild or you're trying to win? Because y'all see who is in your division. Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrell. Now, Lamar Jackson is 27, 28. he got another five to ten years in Baltimore. Joe Burrell might be a year younger than Lamar. He's got another five to ten years in Cincinnati.

Well, while y'all playing musical chairs with quarterbacks, they've identified their guy, and he's going to be there for almost a decade. You're not beating a team that has an established quarterback playing musical chairs with quarterbacks. No, uh-uh, not at all, not at all. Listen, I mean, it's, it's, it's exciting. It's exciting.

And listen, even as a Bengal fan, as a Bengal player at heart, it's, it's enjoyable to be talking about the Brown. It's enjoyable, huh? It's exciting. It's exciting for, for Brown fans. I mean, when's the last time you had a player of this magnitude, Who's a rookie that has you guys in the national spotlight like this? Right.

At all times. Basically, yeah, you got to go back to Johnny football. Oh, hey, boy, Johnny, boy, Johnny was special, boy. Yeah. Another Texas, N.M. Johnny was special, boy. Yeah. You were special. So it's, we'll see.

It'll be interesting to see when they go out to practice today. I mean, excuse me, today. tomorrow what comes back what type of reps did Shadour get did he get refs with the ones did he get a rep or two with the ones

did he get anything with the twos or was he back relegated to be in the fourth quarterback and getting one rep with the fours or no reps or just getting side work that's going to be the tell

that's going to tell us Ocho yeah because what they talking and what's actually happening, we'll find out. We'll find out. And we'll see how they play this thing out on Saturday when they play the game. Ah, come on.

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Win the tech search at Lenovo.com. Unlock AI experiences with the ThinkPad X1 carbon powered by Intel Core Ultra processors so you can work, create, and boost productivity all on one device. I'm Jake Hofer and this is Back 40, a limited series show on Wire to Hunt, part of Meat Eat Eaters podcast network. Each episode, I'll be. We're asking eight wide-tail hunting pros, a focused, thought-provoking question about hunting and land management. How do I hunt the best part of the farm with less than ideal access? Should you, that's what the real question is.

Stand without good access is not a good stand. Listen to Back 40 on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Get fired up, y'all. Season two of Good Game with Sarah Spain is underway. We just welcomed one of my favorite people. an incomparable soccer icon, Megan Rapino, to the show, and we had a blast. Take a listen. Sue and I were, like, riding the lime bikes the other day, and we're like, we're like,

people ride bikes because it's fun. We got more incredible guests like Megan in store, plus news of the day and more. So make sure you listen to Good Game with Sarah Spain on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports Network. This is an IHeart podcast.