Club Shay Shay - Charles Barkley Part 1

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

Charles Barkley grabs a rebound at Club Shay Shay and joins Shannon Sharpe for an enthralling conversation that transcends basketball. Barkley opens up about his deep-rooted ties to his Alabama hometown, revealing poignant anecdotes from his upbringing, including his grandmother's unconventional side hustle and his father's impactful visit during a pivotal moment in high school. From childhood mishaps to transformative life lessons, Barkley shares the raw and authentic experiences that shaped his journey to NBA stardom. Reflecting on his early NBA career, Barkley delves into the inner turmoil that fueled his competitive fire, shedding light on pivotal moments of self-realization, including a notorious spitting incident and poignant encounters with influential figures like Moses Malone and Dr. J. With candid honesty, Barkley navigates through the highs and lows of his illustrious career, from the exhilaration of collegiate success at Auburn to the challenges of sportsmanship and the weight of societal and professional expectations. He offers a unique perspective on the evolution of the NBA, touching on topics ranging from player contracts and league dynamics to the enduring legacy of basketball icons like Larry Bird and Michael Jordan. Through laughter, introspection, and unwavering authenticity, Barkley paints a vivid portrait of resilience, determination, and the unwavering pursuit of excellence. Join Shannon Sharpe and Charles Barkley for an unforgettable first half of their conversation through the triumphs and tribulations of a living legend, as they explore the timeless truths that transcend the boundaries of sport. #VolumeSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news and the best analysis delivered by the time you get your coffee. The show hits every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in all the big guns from NFL media like Colleen Wolf. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I got in shape for $2 million. The money these guys are making today,

I'd be damn near anorexic. For $35, $40 million a year. They're making 50, 60, Charlie. I know. They'd be like, we got to get Charles to eat. He's anorexic. All my life. Been grinding all my life.

Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Won a slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why. All my life. I've been grinding all my life. Yeah.

All my life. Been grinding all my life. Sacrifice. Hustle paid the price. Won a slice. Got the roll of dice. That's why. All my life. I've been grinding all my life. The 82-game preseason is in the books,

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only on DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or in West Virginia, visit 1-800-GAMBLER.net. In New York, call 877-8HOPE-NY The crown is yours. Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Che Che. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Che Che, the guy that's stopping by for conversation and a gaming resources. Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Shea Shea. I am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shea Shea. The guy that's stopping by for conversation and a drink today

is a sports icon and a true superstar. One of the game's greatest NBA players and power forwards of all time. He's one of the greatest rebounders of all time. He's the shortest player in NBA history to lead the league in rebounding. A 16-year NBA vet, 11-time NBA All-Star, 11-time member of the all-nba team the 1993 most valuable player all-star game mvp a two-time gold medalist the leading score on the famous dream team he's also named to the 50th and 75th anniversary team he has his

number retired in philly phoenix and at the university of auburn sec player of the 1980s a two-time inductee of the hall of fame a four-time emmy award-winning personality analyst and commentator fan favorite successful author sought after speaker philanthropist one of the game's greatest character he was like no other a larger than life personality he might be the most quotable sports figure in all the sports sir charles the round mounder rebound the prince of pizza guess what they call him, the leaning tower of pizza, the Crisco kid the wide load from Leeds, one of the

most popular figures in NBA history ladies and gentlemen, Sir Charles Barkley you wrote that, you read that just like I wrote it I appreciate that it's an honor man, thank you for having me you know we've been trying to do this for a long time we have, we have, between between golf i figured out we're crisscrossing each other across

the country every week because i'm flying to atlanta you're flying to la back and forth so i'm glad it's an honor though man you're doing a hell of a job job man i want to say thank you for opening up i mean your nba career goes without, but what you've been able to do to transition after the NBA and to become a lot of people might not like you, but they respect what you've been able to accomplish. And you open the doors for a lot of us, especially myself, because I took my cue from you. And we'll get into that a little later. So I want to toast your success. This is my cognac. Hey, you know, we got to talk about your cognac because I can't get into dark liquor, man.

This is so smooth. It don't drink like, but see, it drink, it's a VSOP, but it drinks like an XO. I'm going to tell you what, before we. That's yours. That's yours. You get to take that home. Before we finish today, I'm going to try something. Okay. You got my word. You got, you got your, we... That's yours. That's yours. You get to take that home. Before we finish today, I'm going to try some. Okay.

You got my word. You got your Redmont. Yeah, so, you know, it's a company, a distillery I bought in Alabama about four years ago. Okay. You know, being from Alabama, I always look for business opportunities in Alabama. Right. And the distillery opened up, and I was like, okay, they do vodka gin. I think we got a great product.

The only thing I worry about is me and my boys drinking all up the profits. I'm a vodka guy, but we do a vodka and a gin. Shout out to Redmont. It's been cool. It's a very interesting business. When I say interesting, I mean corrupt. It's hard. The three tier system?

Yeah, it is. But as long as I invest in Alabama, I grew up in a small town outside of Birmingham, but I'm always looking for investment opportunities in Alabama. That'll always be home. You grew up in a small town. I grew up in a small town. Leeds, Alabama.

What was Charles Barkley's childhood like? Well, you know, Shannon, it's interesting because poor people don't know they're poor. Yeah, everybody around you is poor. You know, I had a great mother and grandmother. Okay. My mother was a maid. My grandmother worked at the chicken factory, but they did awesome. And, you know, I had three brothers. Two of my brothers have passed away. And, you know, I had three brothers. Two of my brothers have passed away. But, man, we didn't even know we were poor. We lived in the projects. And they worked all the time. But we didn't go without anything. So I've always tried to take care of them when they were alive. But I didn't know, like, yo, we had everything we needed we never went hungry we always had good clothing and uh I was so blessed to have a great mother and grandmother my dad was not in the picture okay and me and my dad we we got along later in life but in the beginning I had never

an animosity and hate toward him because he wasn't around because he wasn't around and he didn't do anything for us and to see my mother and grandmother struggling, you know, because, you know, bringing up those boys, trying to make sure we got, you know, cleaning people's houses. And my grandmother was crazy. She'd bring a million chicken feet home. And for you people who don't know what chicken feet are. They are what they say. They are. And, you know, what people don't understand, this is a chicken feet.

There's only one piece of meat right here. And you have to eat like 100 of them to get a full meal. She would bring all type of body parts home from the butcher shop all the time. But, you know, I made peace with my dad later in life. And because he died a couple of years ago, but we became casual friends. I didn't need a dad by the time we reconnected. But I buried the hatchet because, you know, you can't go through life being angry because it just weighs you down.

Yes. But I was so fortunate to have a great mother and grandmother. The forgiveness that you gave him, that was for you. Yes. Because he was living his life. Yes. You was carrying around something that was weighing you down. Well, you know, Shannon,

that was a really traumatic experience in my life when I was in high school. Okay. So when I got ready, so it's a couple goals in my basketball career I'm really proud of. Number one, getting my team to the state tournament. My high school had never been to the state tournament.

And then getting Auburn to March Madness. Those are two of the most important things I've ever done in my life. But to get back to the high school thing, my junior year, we got beat by a better team. My senior year, we were the best team in the state,

but I kind of got hurt. I got hurt. And we lost. And I kind of was just so depressed. I kind of got hurt I got hurt and we lost and I kind of was just so depressed I kind of stayed in bed for like two weeks I mean I was so bad the first year get them to the tournament was a big deal because they had never been before the next year like I want to bring the first state championship to my high school and then we lost I just went into a deep depression so I got behind in all my classes and I caught up in every one of myself. Spanish. First of all, I have no reason why I was taking Spanish in Alabama. So I caught up in all my classes of Spanish. So I didn't graduate.

I had to go to summer school. Oh, man. And my dad, who was living in California my whole childhood, flew in. And he ripped me a new hole and I'm already traumatized that I'm not gonna get to march and when he flew in at that point I just hey man I ain't never gonna forgive this dude ever again for yelling at me like this I was already down so how often prior to him flying in to to ream you for bailing that class how often had you seen him how active was he in your life zero so that

was like he just came in just for that yeah and i had and i i it's my memories vaguely but i don't think i probably saw him probably 10 times in my childhood but he flew in for that high school reunion i didn't know i couldn't uh that i had flunked the final exam until right before graduation. And he ripped me a new one. But that night, I went to the high school, and I stood next door on the stadium and watched the graduation and cried for like two hours. And that night, I said, this is the last time I'm going to let anybody ever have control of my life.

I mean, I was crying. It was brutal. Of course. And I was standing there just watching all my friends graduate. And some of the people, let's be honest, they weren't that nice to me. They were calling me dummy and things like that. Right. So I was obviously, I was kind of out of it.

Then I went to summer school. And then from that point on, I got my act together. But the biggest problem was my first few years in the NBA I was such an asshole because I was I was I was playing so angry because I was thinking about two people Miss Gomez and my dad Miss Gomez I'm assuming is a Spanish teacher yes and you know people said man why you play so angry and so aggressive? And I never told anybody until later. I said, man, I was every time I stepped on the court, I said, I'm going to stick it to Miss Gomez and my dad. Right. And it wasn't until the spin incident in New Jersey when I was sitting in a hotel room crying that night.

when I was sitting in the hotel room crying that night, I said, yo, man, you an a**hole. Don't play basketball to try to stick it to people, the kids who made fun of you in high school, Ms. Gomez. First of all, it was your fault you flunked Spanish. It wasn't Ms. Gomez's fault. It was your fault you flunked Spanish.

Hey, listen, your dad's an a**hole. That's on him. Play basketball because, number one, you're good at it. But it's just play. And that was like the turning point in my life. And the second turning point was probably meeting Moses Malone. Right.

Because I was in college for three years, and I weighed about 290-ish to 300. I was always fluctuating right in there. And then when I got drafted by the Sixers, because I led the league in SEC rebound area, so I think I'm successful and I'm in good shape. Right. But there's no reason for you to lose weight if you're doing all that.

Yes. And you know, because you've been a Hall of Famer, obviously, college shape ain't pro shape. No. Uh-uh. Yeah, college shape ain't pro shape. It's a different animal. It is.

And I remember I got lucky because Moses lived in the same building as me. Okay. And I said, Moses, I wasn't getting to play. I said, Moses, can I come see you tonight? He said, sure. I'm like, what's up? I said, I'll tell you later. And I said, Moses, why am I not getting to play?

He said, Charles, you're fat and you're lazy. He was that blunt, huh? Oh, yeah. He was great. He's like EF Hudden. He didn't say much. Right. But he was such an elder statesman and so respected.

He was like EF Hudden. Like, every time Moses said something, because Doc spoke, Andrew Toney, Bobby Jones, those guys. Yeah, Mo Cheeks, too. But Moses never really said a lot. But when he spoke, that whole locker room, like, Moses talking, shut the hell up. And when he told me I was fat and lazy, but then he said the next thing, he said, you want me to help you lose weight? He said, I'll meet you before practice, after practice. And he said, let's lose 10 pounds. I said, okay.

And then I lost, I got to about 290 and then he's let's lose 10 more. Then I get to 280. Now I'm getting to play. Okay. Cause I can sustain it. You can't sustain effort at 300. Correct. So now I'm at 280. He's saying, let's lose 10 more. He gets me to 270, 260, 250. And I, I look back at that when I talk to kids about losing weight. I said, let's lose some weight. Because if he had said to me, let's lose 50 pounds, I would be like, whoa. But he did it in such a smart way. He said, let's lose 10 pounds.

Let's lose 10. And then when I got to 250, the rest is history. Right. I'm looking at your childhood. I read that your grandmother ran a bar. Well, no, she didn't run a bar. We had people come to the house and get drunk every weekend. No, see, so it was

and you think that's normal. Right. And what's crazy about it, Shannon, it was a fight every weekend. Every weekend. Yeah, because the drinking involved you and gambling, probably. So, that's what it was. So, we didn't have a bar in my hometown. Oh, okay.

So every starting Friday. Pay period. Pay period. So now everybody's trying to make extra money. Yeah. And do you know once they start losing, it's going to be a fight because they start drinking. So my grandmother would go to Georgia every week and get cheaper alcohol. And me and the poor

do shots. So I was kind of like the guy who bought the shots out and didn't go back to my room. Charles, come here. We need another drink. But starting Friday around six o'clock, 10 people would come over and gamble. And then once it started it always started out civil. And then once somebody got drunk and started losing their money, it was always going to be a fight.

Of course. And we did that every Friday and Saturday pretty much my entire childhood. And that's how we made extra money. Because you're not making enough money working in a meat factory as a maid. But it was crazy because, and grandmother she was amazing but it was crazy it's crazy thinking about it now right yeah what kind of lessons did that teach you seeing your grandmother doing what she could to make ends meet you see your mom doing what she can to make ends meet there's four boys going on you're not getting the assistance that you need from your dad.

You're not getting the love, the advice, the discipline from your dad. So what kind of impact did that have on you? Well, so I had started stealing. And one night the cops chased us. That was the closest we got to getting arrested. And I remember when I was crawling on the ground in the woods because they chased us. They were chasing us and we were crawling. Must have crawled like 100, 200 yards.

And I remember I've had dirt everywhere and scars everywhere. And I was like, damn, my mother and grandmother working their ass off every day. And you out here being a crook. And then that's when I said, you know what? I got to get these ladies the love and the respect they deserve. So then I said, you know what? I'm going to just play sports. And what's really funny about it, I sucked at sports.

I wasn't any good. Because I didn't have my growth spurt. Most people don't know that. I was only 5'10 when I was a junior in high school. If I didn't have the growth spurt, ain't no telling what I would be doing today. Because I was a 5'10 backup point guard. And then one year, I grew from 5'10 to 6'5.

I mean, but at 5'10, you probably weighed probably, what, 175, 180? No, I was like 220. That's football playing right. That joke, you should have been a running back. Yeah, let me tell you something. My friends make fun of me. I played football for one day. You know, football is my favorite sport in boxing because I think it takes a real man to play football in box because those are the only sports you can really get hurt at.

Right. And I was like, I played football for one day. And I was like, and I was just joking with the football coach later, after I had my growth spurt later in life. He's like, I think I made a mistake putting you on the offensive line. I says, no, you made a mistake talking me into playing football. Because I played the one day, and I just ran into it. I says, I just ran into a guy full speed

for like two hours. This is stupidest ever. I remember I was sitting in the locker room I was bloody and beaten up and I had my head down. I was totally, this was the first day I practiced. And the coach says I'll see y'all tomorrow. I said

wait, we're doing this tomorrow? And I said I'm not doing this tomorrow. I said, wait, we're doing this tomorrow? And I said, I'm not doing this tomorrow. I said, under no circumstances. I was a coach. And I went, and after practice, I went, I was a coach. I want to thank you for the opportunity. You turned your equipment back in? Right back in after that first day. This is not for me. This is not for me. Right. One of the reasons football is my favorite sport, I think it takes tremendous courage.

That and boxing are by far and away my two favorite sports. Because you can't cheat in football and boxing. Basketball, you can skate on offense or defense and whatever. But if you're on a football field, you cannot cheat. Same thing in a boxing ring. You're going to get your head knocked off. That's why I admire football players and boxers, because it takes tremendous courage to go out there. You're born in Alabama.

We understand the history of racism in Alabama. Did you experience any racism growing up when you were in that small town of Alabama? No, because the year I was born was the church bombing. You got the Selma massacre. You had the Montgomery boycott. My grandmother. In my town, I think it was a great place to grow up because we weren't in a small town.

I don't even think we really know what the hell going on. I've experienced more racism and seen more racism when I got out of there, obviously. And, you know, I was one of the first two kids to integrate the school system. And I didn't, we didn't know what the hell was going on. I didn't find out until later. I didn't we didn't know what the hell was going on. I didn't find out that later. There was a guy named Mr. Allen who drove me and two other kids actually to segregate, to integrate the schools, the elementary school. But I never felt I never felt racism in Leeds, to be honest with you.

That accent. Yeah, very. I have one very heavy colloquial dialect that's indigenous to the South. Yes. Did people make fun of the way you spoke or did everybody speak like that? I didn't realize it until I got to Philadelphia, you know, because I spent my entire life in Alabama. You know, you know, one of the great decisions I made was going to Auburn. Why? Well, okay, so obviously, you know by now I'm really close to my mother and grandmother. I'm going to stay in the box. Right. UAB is 25, 30 minutes from my house. Tuscaloosa is an hour, hour 15 from my house. Auburn's the furthest away by far.

It's like a legit two hours. So when I was trying to figure out where to go to college, UAB, led by the great Gene Bartle, made it to the Sweet 16. Alabama made it to the Sweet 16. Alabama made it to the Sweet 16. And they both had everybody coming back. Bobba Lee Hurt, Enos Wadley. Well, no, we came out together. Not only did they both make it to the Sweet 16,

Alabama signed Enos Wadley and Bobba Lee Hurt. So I'm saying to myself, man, I want to play. Right. So I go down to Auburn, and I said, I'm looking around. I said, damn, these bums done lost 12 games in a row. So I asked Coach Smith, I said, you got a pen on you? He said, oh, what, you a big time? You getting ready to sign an autograph?

I said, nope, I'm signing right now, because these damn guys can't play dead. Y'all have lost 12 games in a row. And I don't see anybody out there who put fear in my heart. And that's actually how the whole thing at Auburn went down. I said, you going to sign an autograph?

He said, nope, I'm signing a scholarship right on the spot because these dudes cannot play dead. And that's how I made the best decision to go to Auburn because I tell all these kids, some of these kids are dummies. I say, yo, man, look who they have on the team before you go there. If you know there's a guy who's really good and you play the same position,

no matter how much confidence you got, you're probably not going to beat him out. He's going to be bigger, stronger, more experienced. I said, the number one thing, if you want an education, you get an education anywhere. But the number one thing when you're deciding to go to college is playing time. Because that's going to be the first time you're away from home. And if you don't get

to play, college is going to suck. Your grades are going to suck. Your personal life is going to suck. You really need to look at who's on the roster before you decide to go. So you said you didn't realize that you had an accent until you got to Philly. To Philly. Once you got to Philly, did you ever try to change the way you talk or enunciate words?

No, not really. Because as you know, fame ain't like everybody. Trying to explain being in the limelight of fame, whatever words you want to use, trying to explain that to a normal person like talking Chinese or talking to an alien. You're not a sports. You're a celebrity, Joe. Yeah, but when I first, like, it's overwhelming when it first happens. I was like, I said, you can't even prepare for it. I said, when they start sticking those cameras

and you turn on TV, they talking good or bad about you in Philadelphia on the radio, going to the black barbershop, hey, never go to a black barbershop when you're on a bad team, ever. Hey, under any circumstances, I said, do never, the woody brothers in philadelphia man i played on some teams that suck in philly when dr moses had

went away never go to a black barbershop when things are going bad they will tell you the truth they will tell you the truth and even if it's not your fault they're just gonna tell, y'all suck. Y'all suck. But no, I was trying to adjust. And a really pivotal moment happened when I was with Dr. J. So my second year in the league, I'm starting to become a good player. And I hate when guys get on TV and say they don't give a shit what people think, blah, blah, blah. Everybody wants to be liked. They do. But I was trying to make

everybody happy. They started, because my first couple years, they went to Moses, Dr. J, Maurice Cheeks, Andrew Toney, those guys, Bobby Jones. Like, I don't think I ever got interviewed in my rookie year. So later in my second year, I'm starting to get it together and learn. The game's slowing down for me.

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Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And Dr. J, I said, Doc, how do I talk to the press? He said, well, you got to figure it out because they're coming to you now. You turn into a hell of a player.

I said, well, I want everybody to like me. He says, well, that's kind of an interesting question because no matter what you say, half the people are going to like it and half the people are going to dislike it. And I said, what does that mean? He says, that's the way this thing works you can't make everybody happy and then that was the turning point for me I said what if I just say my truth he says you might as well say your truth because

even if you said what everybody wants you to say some people are going to disagree with it and then I changed my whole philosophy as far as like, just be honest. That does not mean I'm right all the time. Right. But I'm going to try to be fair and give my honest opinion. And I can live with the repercussions. Because you said something earlier, whether people like me or not, they at least get like, you know what?

At least Charles, even if I disagree with him, he doesn't have a hidden agenda. Right. Because the one thing I hate about these guys, and you know I got this hate towards Skip Bayless. Because especially being black, I think I'm

representing some bigger. I think every black person on television, television is really powerful. Mike Wilbon, one of my mentors, one of my mentors, one of the best people I ever met, he said something to me one time.

He says, when he first got the job at PTI, one of my favorite shows with him and Kornheiser, he says, man, I didn't realize how powerful television was. He says, I've been with the Washington Post for 25 years. I walk around, nobody say hello, kiss my ass or anything. I'm on TV for a week. Hey, you're the guy from TV. And he said he had to learn like, man, TV is a powerful thing.

But the point I want to make as a black person, I'm really conscious of everything I say. You got to be. You got to be. Because there is a double standard. It is. thing I say. You gotta be. You gotta be. Because there is a double standard. Because one thing that drives me crazy when people use cold words describing me, you, Stephen A,

guys like that, I says, and I want to be very careful because I'm not trying to offend anybody, but I want to make this point. I says, well, I'm curious. You don't use those type of words. You use words and we know what they mean black when you talk about Shannon Stephen A and Chuck I said but when Colin Coward Jim Rome uh Mike Greenberg who are great guys I might add when they say stuff you don't use those code words with them. And I says, so I'm very cognizant of like, OK, there's a double standard.

So I'm really careful about some of the stuff I say. But I'm but I'm not afraid of anything because my opinion matters just like theirs do. Right. Yeah. But we I think we start to understand is that it's not what we say it's the breaking of down of everything of every word yeah of parsing it trying to like with this no yes this is my favorite well when i see shows like well this is what said, but this is what he meant. I'm like, no, I know what I meant. I said it. Yeah, I said it. But I always laugh when they say like, well, he said this, but this is what he mean.

This is what he was trying to say. I'm like, no, I said exactly what I meant to say. It drives me crazy when I see when they, not mainly saying about me, but talking about other people. Well, this jock said this, because Jim Rome says something I really love. He says, every time somebody says, I mean, no disrespect. You know what's coming next?

Disrespect. Jim Rome, who I really like a lot. He said he does a segment every week where he says that he says, you know, it's time for the disrespect moment and he always played upon well i mean no disrespect he said wait for it you know what's coming next disrespect and i i love that right when you played were you a trash talker not much not much not much because i had you know because i had too much going on in my brain because when you're six five playing against a six eight guy six nine guy six

ten guy i have to have a strategy you know i say i think somebody said something to me one time they went and looked at the numbers i'm the only person in the history of sports who never played against anybody who was shorter than them because i played center in college right and then obviously in mb i'm i'm always going to be the shortest guy. You're the shortest power 40 in history? Yeah, in history. So I said, I had so much going on in my brain. I'm like,

okay, they're bringing this guy in. He does this well. He does this. He plays me this way. Then they bring the other guy in. I said, well, he plays me this way. They're going to do this. So I had so much going on in my brain. I mean, because like I say, when you can't out-talent, I mean, if you're Michael, LeBron, Kobe, Shaq,

you can out-talent 99% of the guys in the world. But when you're a 6'5", power forward, you can't out-talent people. I tell people that you can't out-talent people at my size. You have to use your brain. Did you fight a lot as a kid? No, because I was too little.

You guys see, that's the thing that people don't understand. I was always small until I had the growth spurt. When you're a little dude, you can't be going around fighting people because you're going to get your ass kicked.

It was, you know, people always ask me, though, about the growth spurt. Yeah. I never had any pain. Really? Like, when you go, when you wake up one day

and you're 5'10", and the next day you're 6'5", like, I never went through, like, this is the... Needs didn't bother you about nothing hurt? It was really weird. I never went through... Needs didn't bother you back? Nothing hurt? It was really weird. It never hurt me. But could you tell that you

had grown that much over the summer? I did not know it. That's what's weird. The coach said to me, you've grown over the summer. I said, I think I've grown a little bit. And then he said, you're like 6'4 and a half, 6'5". From 5'10"? Yeah. And the best thing though, Shannon, the best thing was,

because the number one asset of my game was my ability to dribble. Yes. Because you can't post up guys who are 6'9", 6'10", but they don't want to move their feet. Right. So when I played guard all those years, that was probably the best asset to me when I got to play against those big guys.

Taught you to handle the ball. Yeah, yeah. Because them big dudes, the one thing, it's hard to post them up, but they can't move their feet more than one or two times. And that was the biggest asset of my game,

my ability to dribble. If you grow that much in a summer, I mean, your clothes, you're probably looking like Jethro Bodine. Well, that's the one thing about being poor. You're just dropping down. Oh, so you're wearing hand-me-downs.

And you're wearing hand-me-downs. Because, you know, you're going to get your one suit for Easter. Yeah. You're going to get a couple outfits for Christmas. The rest of the stuff is going to be hand-me-downs. You know, and also, when you're in a small town, it's a very close-knit community. So when you get done with clothing,

it's always a neighbor. Somebody needs it. Somebody gets something. That's why I'll always appreciate growing up in a small town. You know, Kenny grew up in New York. I wouldn't want to assure how my life would have been different if I had grown up in New York.

But growing up in a small town, it town, it was a really sense of community. Community. Yes. Everybody, I mean, and that's when I'm on nightcap and I try to tell people this. It was always, everybody was yes, sir, no, sir, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am. If you misbehave, Miss Such-and-Such would tear your tail up. You're going to get two whippings. And then she's going to go home and say, Mary, I had to whip that boy because he was being

managed or he was cursing. And then you got another whipping. What happened to that sense of community, Chuck? You know, we in the black community, we just have to do better. We got to, number number one racism exists always has and always will you know you i i really i look i tell people this sports are a great thing for for black kids

it's really helped a lot of us get out of here and help and go back and make things better. But you have to understand some, if you're born, and it's white poor too. Oh yeah. Because it's really economic racism. Calling people names and stuff like that, that's just silly and stupid. But economic racism is the biggest problem we have in this

country. Because if you're black and poor, or white and poor, you're going to be born in a bad neighborhood and you're going to go to an inferior school and i always use this analogy i says if you play baseball and if every time you step up to the plate you got two strikes against you yeah shannon gonna get a hit chuck gonna get a hit and we're gonna have a couple little hits right but most people gonna strike out yes or you're afraid to swing yeah yes yes that third strike so i just think that we got to do a better job of holding each other accountable and accept the fact that

hey it's a double standard but you can never give up you can never be like you know what i'm tired because let's be realistic it's still better than it used to be. Yes. It ain't perfect, but it's still better than it used to be. Check this out. When you got to Auburn, you weighed 300 pounds. The first 200 days in college, it's reported that you ordered 100 pieces.

But you led the SEC in rebounding your three years you were there. You hold the record for the career field goal percentage at almost 63%. You was SEC Player of the Year and the Decade of the 80s, and you're a member of the Auburn's All-Century team. How the hell you do that at 300 pounds? Man, I had some serious talent, to be honest with you.

And like I say, the college game is not near as fast. And, you know, we just live in a different generation, a lot faster now. But, you know, you kind of, unless you get a fast break, because when teams score, you're walking the ball up and down the court. And it was really interesting. One of my coaches, Roger Banks, I struggled like the first week I was in college. He says, son, what is your problem? Because I averaged 20 rebounds a game in high school. Because I played with a really good high school team.

And they never ran plays for me, so I had to get my own. I had to get my own. And you were passing it back out. No, so we had about eight players who got scholars. We had really good teams. Yeah, we had really good sports teams in my hometown. Because, you know, a lot of times when people in small towns, they got like three high schools.

The one thing about my high school, we got one high school, you go K-12 with the same group. So we always had good sports teams. Well, you didn't go K-12 in the same class, did you? No, no, no. No, but I'm telling you, it was crazy. You see the same people from K-12. Right.

And it's so funny how, like, we always had a good team in football and basketball. Always had a good team in football and basketball. Did it ever dawn on you? You're like, well, man, I'm really killing it. I'm getting these. I'm playing. I'm averaging 13, 14, 15 points. I'm getting 10, 12 rebounds.

Man, if I lost a few pounds, I might be able to bump that up to do 20, 15. Did that ever cross your mind in college? No. Because when you, you know, the toughest thing about a player, and you know this, and a team. It kind of happened to my Eagles this year. When they got off to like a 10-1 start, a lot of times what people don't understand when you're having success you still need to get better as

a player and as a team and have because you can have bad habits but your team is so good you keep winning so I'm talking I'm not sure but like I'm probably the only freshman to ever lead the SEC in rebounding. And then I led it every year. So I'm not thinking about flaws. I think I'm doing pretty good. So I'm not thinking about, yo, man, lose weight. I'm like, yo, I'm all SEC.

I'm leading the league in rebounding as a freshman, as a sophomore, as a junior. And I'm like, no, I'm leading the league in rebound as a freshman, as a sophomore, as a junior. And I'm like, no, I'm good. And, you know, actually, my coach tried to get me to lose weight. And we fought a little bit early in my career. We're really close today because I had to go back and apologize. I said, you know what? You were right. You were right.

I was wrong. I should have lost weight sooner. I said, you know what? You were right. You were right. I was wrong. I should have lost weight sooner. I could have been better. But, you know, when you're 18 and having success, you don't think anything. You're good.

You think you'd be... Yeah, yeah. So I... It goes back to my thing with Ms. Gomez and my dad. Like, you know what? It's you.

Mm-hmm. You know, I tell you, the one thing about being in the limelight, man, very few people have the ability to say, my fault, my bad. Yeah. There ain't a whole lot of accountability going on. There's a lot of people kissing your ass. Right. Yeah, very few people have the ability to say, hey, you know what? It's my fault.

It's my bad. I was wrong. Because, like I said, you got so many people kissing your ass. You got so many people on the ability to say hey you know what it's my fault it's my bad i was wrong because like i said you got so many people kissing you you got so many people on the payroll kissing it's like so you have to be self-aware and that's the only thing i hate about life all the dumb you did you get older you get so much smarter and get so much wisdom and you go back man what a dummy i was but nobody told you that was done no yeah but but but you you know that's that is that's the one thing about life that i that i

really hate that you don't learn all this smart stuff till you get older because there's so many people out there there's so many people out there who make mistakes that they that they either die from or it ruins their life and if you only get older, you're like, man, what I did back then was dumb and stupid. And I wish that more young kids would pick up, talk to people like you, me, because we've been through some stuff. When I watch you all the time, you talk about preparing for success. You talk about your time in denver you talk about your time with the ravens about trying to teach the young guys how to do things take care

of them bodies and things like that i tell these guys that yo man it's like uh zion i like zion a lot does he remind you of you he reminds me i. I mean, he's more exposed. He's more athletic than you. He's more athletic. But the sooner he gets in shape, the better he's going to be. Have you had a conversation with him? No. And I don't know him, but I try to tell him that on television. I hope he hears it and don't take it as a criticism. Because, like, he has got so much talent. And you can't get in shape during the season.

No. You get in shape during the summer. Correct. And I see that he's lost about 25 pounds. That's what the reports are during the season. You got to do that during the summer. Because you got to be ready to go when the season starts. Man, he is so explosive.

Because that last game that he got hurt in. Against the Lakers. That's the best I've ever seen him play. But, man, listen, I got in shape for $2 million. The money these guys are making

today, I'd be damn near anorexic for $35, $40 million a year. They're making $50, $60, $60. I know. They'd be like, we got to get Charles to eat. He's anorexic. I was like, my first contract was four years, two million dollars.

Right. And I said, I lost 50 pounds for that type of money. I said, for 30, 40, 50, 60 million dollars? They'd be like, yo, guys, Charles is losing too much weight. We have to make sure he ain't bulimic or something. I said, I like, but so, man, I just hope he listens. Right. And don't take it, because guys who've been in this business like yourself and myself, man, this is the best job in the world.

But sometimes you need to take constructive criticism. But the problem is, is that a lot lot of time after and i've been one and now i'm on the other side is that we have we have people around us that tell us what we want to hear what we need to know yes and so a person that tells you what you need to know you're less apt to move away from that person yes as opposed and keep the people that tell you what you want to hear around yeah they should tell him they should he see it. Because when I first saw him, I say he reminds me of Charles Barkley, but he's more explosive than Chuck.

But if he lost, if he got down to 250, woo! Because the thing he did against the Lakers in that one game, he could do that every night. And that goes back to my original thing. I could have a couple good plays when I was 300 pounds right you couldn't sustain it but i couldn't sustain it when i got

to 250 i could sustain it and i could go the next day and the next day the next day and i hope you know these guys and i hate to be the old man because you know when you say something or i say something we hate what we hate or we the old get off my lawn guys. I'm like, no, we know how this story ends. Right. I says, let me tell you something. I know how every NBA story is going to end. I played against Bird.

I played against Magic, Kareem, Michael. You know, I play like I know what it takes to be successful. And no, you know what it takes to be great. Yes. And you know what the thing is? It's like, let's talk about drugs. I had a younger brother who was a junkie who died at a young age. When I talked to these young kids in high school or college about drugs,

I said, yo, man, it ain't a matter if, it's a matter of when. You know, it broke my mom's heart. It broke my heart for a long time. I said, yo, man, I don't understand why you gotta do drugs i just don't get it and i almost did cocaine one time because you know i had put my brother in a bunch of rehabs and i was like what's what's the up with this and i talked to one of my boys i says yo man i want you to get me some cocaine he says charles you're nuts i says man my brother he gonna die at some point and i ain't never had something so strong that i would give up the nba or my money saying you know i gotta do drugs and

he knows it's killing him but he can't stop because john lucas who's a great great man he said he's a truck i'm gonna tell you something about a junkie he says if i put a million dollars on this table cash and a pile of cocaine over there or crack or whatever you want to say a junkie would not say man i can buy a lot of cocaine with that money he gonna go right for that pile over there. And my brother died. I think he was 40 when he died. He got his life together.

He got his life together. He had done so much damage to his body and it just gave out. And when I talk to these kids, I say, yo, man, it ain't a matter if. It's just a matter of when. If you're doing this drug thing, somebody in your family is going to get a call one night that it's over. And I felt so bad for my mom because she never got over it. Never got over it. You come out, the 1994 draft. Now, there have been, I mean, 84 draft.

The 84 draft, Michael Jordan, John Stockton, Charles Barkley, Hema Lajuan. The first three were Hall of Fame. I mean, Lajuan, I think he went first. Yes. Jordan went third. Sam Boyd went second. Y'all had Hall of Famers.

The 85th draft, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Chris Mullins, Charles Oakley, Joe Dumarth. 87, David Robinson, Reggie Miller, Scotty Miller, Scotty Pippen, Horace Grant, Mark Jackson, Muggsy Bowles. 96 draft, Colby, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Derek Fisher. And obviously the 2003 draft. LeBron, D-Wade, Chris Bosh, Mello.

All Hall of Famer. What's the best draft? Well, I don't know if you can say who's the best draft. You know, I'll give you an example why I say that. Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Dan Marino. They're in a conversation of the greatest quarterbacks ever. And Pat Mahomes on. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast,

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Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's ascending. guess it's ascending yeah those guys ain't never gonna be nitty-gritty books in five to ten years and they're some of the best to ever do it the games have changed the rules have changed doesn't make better or worse it's just different should we consider that when we're talking about greatness because of the rule change in football?

I think you have to. I don't care who... Think about this. There's probably going to be 10 quarterbacks in the next five years that's going to shatter all the records. And they're going to be one-third the player

Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Those guys are going to be – think about it. In 10, 15 years, and that probably won't even be that long, they won't even be in the top 10 yardages and touchdown passes because the rules have changed. And obviously, just now, number one, they're going to pass it more,

a lot more. But also, defense is a handicap right now also. So, all the players you mentioned are great, great, great. But it is just a lot easier to play basketball. Because I tell people, Michael, I played. When you played them boys from the Pistons, we used to always say, call your family, tell them you love them, and goodbye. Because there was a chance you wasn't going to make it out.

They were trying to hurt people. They had six guys who used their fouls. You know what's so crazy? When I was watching the documentary, The Last Dance, some of those fouls would get you suspended for 10 games today. Oh, absolutely. Yes. And it was just one foul back then.

Bill Lambert would have been out of the league for at least 30 games because he was deliberate with he. Ain't no hiding it or nothing. Same thing with Mahorn, John Salad, Dennis Rodman. I mean, think about it. You go back and Lambert, all the guys. So the rules have changed. They're not, like I say, I don't ever say things are better.

Right. But all these guys are great. And I was blessed to play in a generation because the two most important figures in NBA history were Magic Johnson and Larry Bird. Right. If it wasn't for those two guys, and Reese had something to do with that.

Yes. Reese had something to do with that. It drew a line. It drew a line. But it's still the best thing that ever happened to the NBA. It is. Because before then, the average salary then was $200,000. When Magic and Bird came in, because first of all, it was too black, too thuggish, too drug-infested.

And we were tape-delayed. People don't realize that. They don't even know that. The NBA Finals was on tape-delayed. And Sean, you got one game a week on Sunday. You did. I remember it. You got one game a week on Sunday.

And people now, you can watch a game seven days a week. All the games. All the games. I said, no, you don't understand. And like I say, it was a long time ago, but think about it. The finals were taped to late. And there was only one game on Sunday. And the average salary was $200,000.

The average salary now is $10 million. We got what's going to be crazy. We got three NBA players, I think, three or four, making $60 million a year. In the next five years, we're going to have guys making $70, $80, $90, $80. Luka will probably be first. It's going to be crazy. $80 a year, Chuck. $80 a year to play basketball.

Good. And what's crazy, Shannon, this is how old I am. I remember vividly me, Doc, Moses, Bobby Jones, Andrew, Tony. We were in the locker room one day, and it broke that Matty Johnson had been the first NBA player to make a million dollars. We were walking around high-fiving each other. We could not believe.

We could not believe that an NBA player made a million dollars. And I'm like, and I'm with Doc and Moses now, who are all-time greats. They're high-fiving each other. They're like, we can't believe an NBA player making a million dollars. That's how crazy it was thinking about money back in the day. Wow. It says it was reported that you didn't want to go to Philly so bad

that in a 48-hour span, you ate two Denny's Grand Slam breakfasts, six pancakes, bacon, totaling about 1,600 calories, a vanilla milkshake, Kentucky Fried Chicken bucket, mashed potatoes, coleslaw, half the menu at Red Lobster, two McDonald's fish fillets, large fries. I don't know why the hell you had a Diet Coke. So wash it down.

Two Texas-sized barbecue sandwiches, a T-bone steak baked potato three desserts repeated it for the next day gained 20 pounds also while drinking what the hell you like you could kill yourself you could have went to a food coma i could have been poor too uh no so you know they had a really hard cap right so i'm with my agent so So, you know, you do your visits. Yeah. The owner of the 76ers says, put me on the scale. I'm weighing about 295.

This is about a month before the draft. He says, you know, we're concerned about your weight. I says, well, I'm going to get in shape. I think I'm going to, but whatever, blah, blah, blah. He said, we want you to lose 10 pounds. We want you to come in the day of the draft. Stop in Philly on your way to New York for the draft. So I go train for a month down in Houston.

I think at the time I'm weighing about 282, 283, somewhere in there. I don't know if that's going to happen in a month down in Houston. I think at the time, I'm weighing about 282, 283, somewhere in there. I don't know if that's going to happen in a month, Chuck. No, I got down. It was only like 12 pounds. Okay. Oh, he wanted you to get to 280. Okay.

Yes. Okay, you're 282. He says, we want you to get to 285. Okay. So I go down to Houston and train for a month, and I'm like 282. And we get on the scale. He says, now Chuck, we have a problem. I said, what's the problem?

He says, well, the Sixers are over there at the cap. They can only give you a one-year deal for $75,000. I said, I didn't leave college for $75,000. Are y'all crazy? He says, well, I don't know what to tell you.

He says, Sixers want to take you. I said, I don't want to. I said, I didn't leave college for one year for $75,000. What if I get hurt? Right. I'm trying to take care of my family, set my family up for financial, for life. Yeah. He says, well, if the Sixers draft you, you're going to have to sign a one-year deal for $75,000.

I said, what can we do? He says, well well we're stopping in philly on the way to new york man we went right to denny's i got a grand slam i canceled workouts for the next two days i got me a grand slam then we went out i got me some shakes went to a a big steakhouse the night, got me the big T-bone, got me some fries, got me a big old piece of cake, did the same thing

the next day. I get back to Philly, we stop. I'm 298. The owner team called me, what the, what the? And me and my agent looked at each other

like thank God we dodged a bullet and if you go back and look at my face and out of the draft and that sweet burgundy suit

I might add man when they said with the number five pick the 77 76 select Charles Barkley

the look on my face, I'm in shock. And I'm thinking, damn, I left college for $75,000. I got to be the biggest fool in the world. And so we go down to Philly. And he says, you know, go to the Summer League. And I said, well, I got no choice. So I go to Summer League, and I start just whooping ass. I do.

I was like, I got this. And he says, okay, we're going to trade some players because we're not going to make you sign a one-year deal. And they traded Franklin Edwards and I think Mark Ivarone. And my first deal was four years, two million dollars. You was on the court

when Doc and Larry got into it. What caused that? Man, first of all, I hate the NBA for that reason. They owe me $5,000. I'm still pissed to this day. Because the one thing I would never do is hold a guy for another

guy to hit him. And I've been mad. I'm still mad to this day. Y'all owe me $5,000 out of them silver. So, Larry Bird was a great trash talker. And he's like, Charles, y'all better get this old man off me.

I'm telling you. And he's just roasting Doc. He's like, and this was Doc last year, I think. He was right there. It was either last year or the year before. And he's killing Doc. And he's like, Chuck, I'm telling you for the last time, you better get over here,

because I'm going to kill this old man. And it goes on up and down. And Larry's just killing him. And Doc had just had enough. And they come together, and I just kind of grabbed Larry. I'm not even looking at Doc. When I went back and looked at the tape, Doc was nailing his ass. I was just trying to pull guys apart.

Yeah, but you know you can't ever fight. You can't grab one unless somebody grabs you. And you grab him. I grabbed Larry because I didn't want him hitting Doc. But ain't nobody grabbed Doc. I know. I know. But you just said something.

If I grab Doc and Larry start pummeling, I can't go back to Philly. You're right. I can't go back to Philly. So I grabbed Larry to stop him from hitting Doc. And Doc whaling away. But Doc, it started because Doc was like, Larry's like, yo, man, y'all better get. And he's screaming it too. Everybody can hear it.

Y'all better get this old man off me. I'm going to kill him out here. Larry's one of the, I tell you, Larry Berry was one of the best trash talkers ever. So one of my teammates, Leon Wood, was great. He's an NBA official now. Yes, he is. So we're in the room getting ready for the three-point contest at an All-Star game. Larry walks in and says,

Which one of y'all going to come and suck a place? Y'all heard me. Which one of y'all going to come and suck a place? I was like, damn. that's like my first real talk to him oh that sounded pretty aggressive he won though he won i mean he was he was he was one of the best at trash talking man he when he came in and said that you could have heard a pin drop everybody's all excited and everything everybody was geek yeah we're geek larry walk in and said which one y'all gonna come in same place second place you could have heard a pin drop. Everybody's all excited and everything. Everybody was geek. Yeah, we're geek. Larry walked in and said, which one of y'all gonna come in the same place, second place?

You could have heard a pin drop. You probably played, when you look at the era in which you played, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Michael, Olajuwon, Patrick, Robinson. Yeah. What was that era like?

That era made it possible for this era. And I don't know if this era gives that era enough credit and maybe that era doesn't give this era enough credit. Well, that's a great question. We should always give credit to the guys who came before us. give credit to the guys who came before us. Correct. Always. Because if it wasn't for those guys, nobody would be... Y'all making this money because

y'all were born at the right time. You're not better than Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Kareem, Will, Bill, Russell. You're not better than those guys. Let me push back. Those guys, but I'm saying average.

If you look at the teams now, guys are more skilled. You have more guys that can shoot the equivalent of Reggie and Larry on a team. Just be appreciative of that generation. Okay. I got a number of love for these young guys because, number one, they're great. Yes. But they should always have great appreciation

for the older guys because those guys did all the heavy lifting. It's kind of like being black, in my opinion. Mm-hmm. I have so much love for older black people. Absolutely. Because I don't know what it's like

for people to spray me with a water hose seek the dogs or tell me we're taping this in the four seasons we couldn't have been here no they've said take your black up to the motel six and do this interview right like if you can't every time I meet an older black person, I'll give you an example. One of my mentors was Joe Morgan. Okay. He called his dad one day. He said, Dad, we're going to meet Jackie Robinson tomorrow.

He said, what do I say? He says, just tell him thank you. And I think every time I meet an older black person, I want to say thank you because y'all did all the heavy lifting. Y'all did all the heavy lifting. What they had to endure. I can't even imagine. Like, I can go to any restaurant I want to.

Anyone. I can stay in a hotel I want to. I don't even know what it's like when people say, well, you can't stay here. Or good to the back of the bus. Back of the bus. Or the movie theaters. I'm old enough to remember the movie theaters, the black set up top. You couldn't sit down low.

I'm old enough. I do remember that. And so the analogy of every basketball player today, just say, yo, man, I want to thank you. Not even me, because I made a good living. But every time I meet an older guy, I'm like, yo, man, thank you for what you did for me. But every time I meet Magic and Bird,

I tell them guys, man, thank y'all. Because in sports, there are a lot of great players. But there's only a few guys who move the needle. Correct. Like in golf. There are a lot of great players today. But Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Phil Mickles and Tiger Woods, those guys took the sport to a whole nother level. players are like oh i gotta watch that guy on television right we gonna we need to do the tv

deal because of that guy and all you want from any generation is number one leave it better great like i'm disappointed in these guys today with this low management i say yo man first of all we're not teachers we're not nurses we're not teachers. We're not nurses. We're not in the service. People who work like hard every day. We play a stupid basketball game for three or four days a week. You're not going to play more than three or four days a week. You're going to make 30, 40 million, 60 million. I'm pretty sure the nurse don't want to go to work sometime.

She can't low manage. She can't. I'm pretty sure teachers nurse don't want to go to work sometime. She can't load manage. She can't. I'm pretty sure teachers can't load manage. I says, man, just play basketball. You got the best shoes. Can you imagine Bill Russell playing in those canvas shoes? Chuck Taylors. Chuck Taylors.

Can you imagine? Can you imagine? No support. No support. And they played every game for three thousand dollars a year and you can't just like of course you're sore i'm pretty sure doctors and nurses are sore but man just just to be appreciative how lucky and blessed we are to do something stupid and make a gazillion dollars how different would your career have been if you weren't drafted and played in the era of Michael Jordan?

Do you want a title? That's a great question. I don't know. But I'm glad I played in his era. Because, number one, you want to play a great player. The greatest. It's a debate between him and LeBron. Some people still think Kareem.

You want to play in that. Because, number one, what Michael did, going back to what we were talking about, have respect for the older generation. If it weren't for Michael, I wouldn't make millions of dollars from Nike a year. Right. LeBron, Kobe wouldn't make millions of dollars from Nike a year. If it wasn't for Michael Jordan, we all wouldn't have commercials.

People act like athletes always did commercials. No. Number one, none of us had a shoe deal until Michael. None of us shot commercials until Michael. So whether you want to debate who's the greatest, that guy is the reason we make that's the reason I think about this. And when I was in, it was really fun in that movie air. Cause I, I mean, I'm technically in the movie cause me and Mike are in the same generation, his mom and dad having the forethought to say, oh, he going to get a piece of the shoe. Right. And then Matt Damon who who plays Sonny, says,

well, we don't do it like that. Miss Jordan said, yeah, we do it like that. And because of that, I made millions of dollars from Nike, and also from my signature shoe. Right. So I lost to Michael Jordan i it would have been great and and the only thing i ever felt bad about trying to be honest i couldn't win the 76ers not 76 the sons of championship because in philly they had one uh in houston they had one i have always felt

bad that i wasn't able to bring a championship to Phoenix, because that's my home. They gave me... When I got traded there, my life just changed dramatically. Because, man, all I wanted was some help. Because when you're

a great player, man, it's hard to go out there. There's a couple things that happened to me that really, because I was getting so depressed in Philly, because I was saying to myself, damn, I suck as a basketball player. I says,

we never, I says, we get beat in the first round every year, and I'm like, I know I'm great, but our team wasn't very good, because I'm like, yo, man. And I'm having my private moments. I'm talking to my friends. I'm like, man, am I not good at basketball?

I think I'm great, blah, blah, blah. And then when they called me for the dream team, I was like, damn, I am pretty good. I'm like, I am good. Thank you. Thank you. And then when I got traded to Phoenix, they gave me Dan Marley and Kevin Johnson and Mark West and those guys. I'm like, because when I got there that first day, I said, guys,

I think I'm the best basketball player in the world. We're going to play the Bulls for the championship. Michael Jordan just has some more help. I'm just as good as him. They look at me like I'm crazy. They're like, what? I says, I think I'm the best basketball player in the world. Y'all going to find out right now.

Because we're going to go out here and start kicking some ass. Right. I told them that the first day. And there was a turning point in the season. And I know Michael well. We got off to a good start we play the Bulls and he just kick our and I was saying to myself he know we're gonna play them in the finals he wanted to send us a message so after the game I told him I said guys we got to get better that guy sent me a message tonight and I didn't like the message but I received it yeah I received it

and then we went on like a 12 13 game winning streak finished with the best record NBA get to the finals and I said I get the chance to prove my point and I'll tell you that's the first time in my life I felt like I said damn that guy's better at basketball than me. Because I had my chance, a showdown at the OK Corral. And so, no, it was an honor. Same thing I say, but Bird and Magic, Kareem, it was just a great time. This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast platform you just listen to part one on just simply go back to club shea profile and i'll see you there

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